Comments by "Taint ABird" (@taintabird23) on "Brexit is a mess and a failure of leadership, former US ambassador to EU says | Street Signs Europe" video.

  1. But the Brexit argument was based on lies. How is getting a result that you want based on lies related to democracy?
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  2. I'm sorry, but you did not answer the question. How is getting a result that you want based on lies related to democracy? It is quite clear that the vast majority of those who voted to leave - as well you know - did precisely no research, aside from consuming the nonsense in much of the UKs print media. Never mind hiding behind the remainers - they lost. If what you say about them is true, then the lying remainers losing says something positive about British democracy. The trouble is, the liars also won. I'm not sure how the EU relates on this question of democracy in the UK. While the EU has its problems, it appears to be more secure than in the smaller Union. In the UK there is no constitutional account for the fact that both Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to remain against the backdrop of a diminishing British Demos. I'm afraid you did not answer the question - but its a tough one to answer.
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  3. Well, in fairness Veronica, if one side won Brexit by a small majority and a heap of lies, it is quite natural that those who lost should try to minimize the damage as they see it. It is also healthy in a democracy to have an opposition, especially when there was no agreement as to what leaving the EU actually means in terms of the future relationship with the EU. I doubt anyone voted for no deal. I has been quite remarkable how the silencing of the remainer constituency has been so effective. Do you not think it was also embarrassing that leading Brexiters believed that the UK could vote to leave and have all the benefits of membership of the EU?; that the UK was in effect more important the whole of the Single Market? I would agree that there is a woeful lack of leadership in the UK and I would say there is also a remarkable ignorance about the EU and how it works. However, it should be remembered that the UK has little negotiating experience at this level in contrast with the EU and its highly experienced in negotiating team - this does not help the UKs cause. I think, given the conduct of the referendum and the malaise in Westminster, it is quite clear that there is a crisis at the heart of democracy in the UK. Brexit has exposed it, along with other fault-lines such as the fragmentation of identity, and those with a sense of being 'left behind'. The EU is being blamed for a failure of domestic policies of UK governments of all hues over many decades. For me, it is hard to see how the Brexit vote could be considered democratic given the lies that were required to win it.
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  4. Oh Veronica there are so many lies to pick from. Here are a few: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBxWiRz6A9E and more here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY When Ireland made its first application to join the EEC in 1962, the Irish new that the organisation they were joining was more than just a common market. The Danes don't seem to have been surprised it was more than a common market and they both joined the EEC with the UK in 1973. How did the British not know? If the government hid this fact, what were the media doing? Its not like it was a secret. You and I both know that the majority of those who voted to Leave did not do any research. Those who do feel they carried out research, may have been influenced by the widespread misinformation available online and in the print media about the EU, so we cannot glean any comfort from research unless we know the sources. I'm not saying that the result should not be accepted because of its size, I would question its legitimacy because of the lies. However, unlike in a government situation, in this referendum, because there was no plan and no vision document on paper that politicians could be held to, we only know what a small majority voters are against, not what they are in favour of in terms of the new relationship. The small margin means there are plenty of remainers trying to shape that new relationship. Nothing wrong with that in a democracy, I would have thought. It is a pity Brexiters had no plan. Most British people are deeply ignorant of the EU - we can probably agree on that. Again the UK media must take responsibility I feel. I look around the other countries of Europe as you have suggested and frankly none of them are in the kind of chaos the United Kingdom finds itself in. Some people are loudly calling for change, but not the majority in any country I can think of. In some cases these countries, like the UK, are seeking exemptions from rules that govern all the rest - hardly sounds fair. It is often the case (Italy comes to mind) that governments will take on Brussels in order to gain popularity at home, blaming Brussels for difficult decisions that are made domestically. Every country does that at some stage. I think the EU will be fine. It will continue to evolve, probably as a multi-speed entity. It seems to be an important aspect Brexit theology that the EU is the union that is failing when in fact it the union closer to home that is the one on more shaky ground. Perhaps the English will be the ones to leave the UK in the future; maybe it will be the Scots if they can convince Westminster to allow a second referendum; Northern Ireland will almost certainly seek a border poll in the event of a hard border; perhaps Brexit will be the catalyst to propel Welsh nationalism towards a more coherent identity - Welsh speakers voted overwhelmingly to remain, while more Anglicised parts of Wales voted to leave. That's the fascinating thing about Brexit - who knows what forces it has unleashed at home. It is has had relatively little effect on the continent.
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  5. Remain lost the referendum - get over it. You cannot continue to offer this straw man argument to avoid the issue. Leave won telling lies. How is getting a result that you want based on lies related to democracy? Its a tough one to answer...
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