Comments by "Taint ABird" (@taintabird23) on "Owen Jones meets Sinn Féin leader | Could Brexit make a united Ireland happen?" video.
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It is national exceptionalism, a kind of primitive form of nationalism.
Nobody re-writes history - history is all about perspectives.
I'm Irish. For the Irish, the experience of British rule was largely a negative one, same for the Indians. For the British, their empire was a great thing, nicer than other empires, and the world was a better place when the English were telling everybody else what to do.
Different perspectives.
Nationalism is normal, and moderate nationalism is a good thing. It becomes problematic when you start to see your nation in exceptional terms. This exceptionalism, fueled in part by a failure to come to terms with the complexities of an imperial past, has contributed to the hubris behind Brexit.
In short, Brexit is an example of a people (the English) experiencing an national identity crisis, with its own logic and politics of self-pity and oppression.
In this case, the oppression is imagined.
That seems to be how others see it.
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'I have no idea whether Ireland was overall better or worse under British rule - I wasn't there. You weren't either.'
Not a problem, I'm a historian and read widely. I take it you don't as you are not comfortable with it.
'Some people in Ireland supported independence, some didn't and so many views.'
In 1921 when Ireland became independent it was because most people supported the idea. How else could it have happened? In 7 years Ireland went from being a country that wanted devolution like you have in Holyrood today, to seeking full independence outside the Empire. People were fed up of a government in another country standing in the way of the democratic wishes of the majority in Ireland.
'I'm from scotland - low land scotland. We have a nationalist government. They want to make us believe that Gaelic was our national language.'
I was unaware of that development.
Perhaps an independent Scotland will have both as national languages, just like Ireland. I understand though that Lowland Scotland was anglicised early and quickly spoke Lallans, I think you call it. Forcing the language on people who don't want to speak it won't work.
In any case, nationalism is more than just language: it is about how a group of people view their place in the world, their values, their cultural expression and the symbols of identity that mark them out.
It can also be about being from a particular place - though Irish nationalism has evolved away from being about the national territory and more about the people. It is quite different from the nationalism that underpins Brexit in that respect.
In that context, I I have a question.
You are a Scot, but you are clearly not a Scottish nationalist.
What makes YOU Scottish? And why are you not a nationalist?
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All nationalism is based on a romantic notion of how we see ourselves a Nation – the Nation being a collection of people who share the same cultural values and identify as being part of that group - whether moderate or advanced nationalists.
The difference between the moderates and the advanced nationalists are usually the methods and strategies favoured to achieve nationhood or to maintain or express it.
Scottish nationalism, like Irish nationalism, seems to be very comfortable with itself and has the capacity to integrate others. In that respect, I feel that multi-culturalism will be less of an issue in Scotland than it is in England.
There was no mandate for the 1916 Rising, but the failure to implement Home Rule because of the war, and the endless concessions to unionists made by the Irish Party to have it implemented, left a vacuum that was gradually filled by Sinn Fein.
The vote for Irish Independence is generally taken to be the 1918 general election. Sinn Fein won 47% of the seats with an expectation that Ireland would negotiate its independence from the UK and the Empire – something it is hard to believe the British establishment could ever have tolerated.
Unionists only won about 25% of the vote, while the previously dominant moderates, the Irish Party, won about the same percentage, but with fewer seats than unionists.
It was arguably the most democratic election ever held in Ireland up to that point, with women and certain classes of men voting for the first time. However, the first past the post system is a less democratic voting system than the single transferrable vote used in Ireland today.
The war of independence came afterwards, but it was clear that the majority of people in Ireland had voted for Independence from Britain as this was Sinn Feins agenda.
The IRA started the war of independence without any mandate and perhaps about 3000 died. But support for the military campaign came quickly as the Crown Forces alienated the population further with their reprisals and atrocities.
While the Irish War of Independence did not have a democratic mandate, it is also the case that it came about because of the democratic deficit in the country - the failure to implement Home Rule.
Also the government's determination to partition the country and not to respect the democratic will of the majority was a significant contribution alongside the attempt to force conscription on a population that was against it in 1918.
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Monuments should be kept, they just need to be more honestly interpreted. I personally don't have a difficulty with the Cenotaph, it is important and healthy to remember the dead.
The British Empire was great for the UK, but it came at a cost to others that the UK cannot bring itself to acknowledge. Many English people in particular are deeply deluded about their own history and even their place in the world today.
I'm Irish and Ireland has acknowledged the role of Irishmen who served in the British army in WW1, for example, Public memorials have been erected in Waterford, Wexford, Clare and elsewhere in the last few years, and there has been a library of publications on the topic produced;
While, Ireland has the confidence to challenge many its sacred cows of Irishness and Irish history, the British have not even begun this process for themselves yet. They have yet come to terms with their imperial past.
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