Comments by "Taint ABird" (@taintabird23) on "A United Ireland? Some Northern Ireland Unionist figures 'ready to talk' unification" video.

  1. He's Irish, he didn't have a vote!
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  2. Well said.
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  3. Nobody is planning to 'force' anybody into doing anything. The GFA governs this.
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  4. We won't have to carry all the burden. A deal will done with the British so that a gradually declining bloc grant after unity from the UK government to smooth the way towards integration could be arranged - perhaps with the EU also. In the meantime, the irish government would be using its influence to ensure FDI and other investments come into NI to develop the economy.
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  5. What wrong with the report?
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  6. @ Eamon Ireland passed Masstricht. It rejected both Nice and Lisbon, and passed both the second time following amendments.
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  7. No earl, Ireland has never voted to leave the EU. Ireland rejected the Lisbon Treaty, negotiated amendments and passed it the second time. A poll released this week indicates that support for membership of the EU in the Republic is running at 92%, a 4% increase on last year.
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  8. Not really. Ireland is a culturally Catholic, but increasingly secular and socially liberal. Your problem will be social liberalism.
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  9. Many Irish people would choose the EU over a united Ireland.
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  10. A survey in 2016 indicated that 65% in the Republic supported a united Ireland; a more recent poll released last week suggests that 50% would in favour. I suspect the latter figure is closer to reality.
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  11. I don't think the Irish government would agree to a border poll unless there as a significant majority of Northerners in favour of it. A 51% majority in favour of unity would be a nightmare scenario for Dublin.
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  12. Ireland has a higher GDP per capita than the UK, and a lower debt to GDP ratio. Below is list of areas where the UK lags behind Ireland, suggesting that Ireland not poorer and less developed than the UK: Fragile State Index (Formerly Failed State Index) – Ireland ahead of UK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Fragile_States_Index Democracy index – Ireland ahead of UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index Global Peace Index – Ireland ahead of UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index Freedom of the Press Index – Ireland ahead of UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_Press_(report) Economic Freedom of the World – Ireland ahead of UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Freedom_of_the_World Good Country Index – Ireland ahead of UK https://goodcountry.org/index/results#
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  13. @ Yosef Unfortunately for you, the facts do not support your wishful thinking.
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  14. Yes. Being Irish and all.
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  15. The British will be offering less and less in years ahead.
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  16. The Irish government will not agree to a border poll unless a substantial minority of unionists support it. 51/49 would be a nightmare scenario.
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  17. No. The Irish government will not agree to a border poll unless a substantial minority of Unionists support the idea.
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  18. Yes, of course. There is nothing 'inherently insular' about the Irish. From medieval times Ireland was connected to Europe, and the Mediterranean through trade and scholarship at a time before there was an England. By the early modern period Irish men served in the armies and civil service of Spain, France, Austria, various German and Italian states and Russia; during the British empire period Irishmen travelled the world in the British army and navy while others founded the Navies of the United States, Argentina and Uruguay. During the 19th century Irish people emigrated in the millions to the four corners of the world. After independence Ireland looked outwards to take its place in the world; only looking inwards under Eamon de Valera between 1932 and 1959. Since then Ireland has gradually opened up to the world again and now ranks higer than the UK in terms of economic freedom - achieved in part to its open, rather than closed, economy. https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking Ireland has a higher proportion of its population born elsewhere than the UK - 17%, Irish people are comfortable with this because Irish nationalism has evolved to be more inclusive and is open to outside influences. So there you have it. Your claim that the Irish are 'inherently insular' does not stand up to scrutiny.
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  19. I doubt it.
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  20. Your first problem would be the fact that there are only 32 counties.
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  21. Brexiters used to say the same about 5 years ago.
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  22. No. What has happened is that Brexit has been mugged by reality.
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  23. I know misery loves company, but the UK is on its own. Ireland will not be following you. Best of luck.
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  24. 'And besides, comparing south Ireland, a country of 5million people to GB a country of over 60million will lead to misleading results.' How? 'So I dont see ur point.' Denial...
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  25. I agree. Brexit is only the start of something not the end of anything.
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  26. Wise words from yourself...
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  27. And Cyprus. In the past you could have added Vietnam and Germany too.
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  28. The EU did not make Ireland vote twice. Ireland asked for a second vote, having identified the reasons for the NO vote. Ireland got protocols on neutrality and put the Treaty to the people again, and the was passed. Historians will be amazed at the levels of ignorance that fueled Brexit and the extent to which people were manipulated.
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  29. @ Beast. Ireland is second only to Switzerland when it comes to having national referenda, we're very experienced at it. Voting again, being able to change your mind, sending legislation back to the legislators, is the very essence of democracy. It is a pity your country's inexperience of referenda leads you to think otherwise. The difference between Ireland and the UK is that in the UK Parliament is Sovereign while in the Republic of Ireland sovereignty lies with the people on Constitutional issues. The UK cannot make its own way in the world as it did in the past anymore. That is a romantic notion. In a world dominated by the USA, China and the EU the UK is but a pipsqueak now, as we all are. The UK will be back to the EU seeking a deal in about 2-3 years. An independent England will follow Scotland, who will already be members, back into the EU in about 15-20 years.
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  30. Returned where?
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  31. Northern Ireland is not in the Euro - it is in the UK and therefore the sterling area. Seriously, you have a vote??
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  32. You think NI is the same as any other part of the UK? Its not. And an international treaty recognises that fact. Northern Ireland is claimed by nobody and it is free to make its own decisions about its future. It voted to remain in the EU and is leaving because it is part of the UK. That make NI worthy of this report. You're not more objective, you're just less knowledgeable.
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  33. @ philip013 Only if they are resident.
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  34. Obviously.
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  35. English remainers?
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  36. Yes, these are the rantings of incoherent and deeply frustrated Brexiters. For Irish people, its hilarious.
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  37. Leaving aside Britain's dismal record in keeping promises to the Irish, why would the Irish give up their sovereignty to become a vassal state of an insecure and incoherent English dominated polity? How does it 'make more sense' for the 4.8 million Irish to give up their nationhood to quell 1 million unionists? Why would the Irish give up their economic achievements for the an economic model based on English exceptionalism and irrationality? Neither the Unionists nor the English share the same inclusive, compassionate values of Irish nationalism that exists today in the republic. No Irish government would support any border poll unless it was clear that a substantial minority of Unionists were likely to back it. You can take that to the bank. There will be no 'dragging' of anyone into a united Ireland, kicking or screaming or not. Why do you think the Irish economy is backward? Ireland has a higher GDP per capita ratio than the UK and a lower debt to GDP ratio. Irish people are better educated, more open minded, more traveled and more at ease with their place in the world than the average Brexiter. While people like you are scared of people that are different to yourselves, the Irish are not. While people like you fear the future and are inspired by the past glories, the Irish look to the future with confidence. Various international studies have demonstrated that Ireland is less backward than the UK in many areas: Fragile State Index (Formerly Failed State Index) – Ireland ahead of UK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Fragile_States_Index Democracy index – Ireland ahead of UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index Global Peace Index – Ireland ahead of UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index Freedom of the Press Index – Ireland ahead of UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_Press_(report) Economic Freedom of the World – Ireland ahead of UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Freedom_of_the_World Good Country Index – Ireland ahead of UK https://goodcountry.org/index/results# Why should the Irish be concerned about the economic cost of independence when the British are not concerned about it in relation to leaving the EU? Did it stop the Germans integrating the east? Did you hear German workers complaining about not getting a pay rise in over a decade because of it? Your comments are ignorant and incoherent.
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  38. 'We unionists in NI have many sensible reasons for not wanting to take our country into a union with your country.' I'm sure there are - you don't share them with me though. 'Can't believe you pretend intelligence and come out with claptrap like "inclusive, compassionate values of Irish nationalism". You omitted the word 'today' when quoting me. Was this a deliberate attempt to substitute an argument you want to have or or just an error? Irish nationalism has and continues to evolve. For the record - nobody 'forced' Protestants out of the new state in 1922 or thereafter, Protestants were not an oppressed minority in the Republic, and instead have a disproportionate representation in the professions, particularly in the legal profession. The Protestant population in the 26 counties began its decline following Disestablishment, and others left with the British Administration in 1922, some left because they could accept the reality of living in the Irish Free State and others for economic reasons - just like Catholics. The 'oppressive' Republic has had two Protestant Presidents. Unlike Catholics in NI, Protestants in the Republic identify with the state within which they are a minority. This includes the Ulster-Scots of Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan, one of whom, Heather Humphreys, headed up the 1916 centenary commemorations two years ago. Imagine that. Another, Jack Boothman, was President of the GAA in the 1990s. Kingsmill had nothing to do with Nationalism, and everything to do with pure sectarianism - the 'ism' that has blighted your part of the island and still does. You are a buck eejit if you think I support terrorism. The fact is, in the last 40 years, Irish nationalism in the Republic has evolved. It is confident, inclusive and compassionate. You can be Protestant and Irish, Gay and Irish, Black and Irish, Atheist, British, Polish, American, Chinese and Irish; Catholicism is no longer a badge of Irishness in the Republic and Gaelic Irishness is only one strand of Irish identity. Now, you are free to reject this is you wish, but it does not change the facts. From what I read online, it is only the British who have a problem with the current Taoiseach being half-Indian and gay. Its no problem for the Irish. Irish nationalism has evolved while unionism has remained the same. 'Oh bye-the-way, love all you statistics BUT if Ireland is actually such a lovely place why are there more Irish living in the UK than actually live in Ireland, maybe they think the UK is better?' Your claim is a preposterous fabrication: in the 2001 census, only 780,000 Irish were living in Britain. I will let you look up the population of the Republic yourself. British immigrants to Ireland represent a higher proportion of the Irish population than vice versa. Can you show me where I claimed Ireland was on a par with Germany? Your entire argument is incoherent, prone to jumping to conclusions and ill-informed, . Can you point out something I said that is offensive?
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  39. The Irish, like all the peoples of Western Europe, originated in the Levant, via Iberia, according to DNA analysis.
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  40. Nobody is injecting Islam into Irish society.
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  41. 'I have seen your name and comments on various strings on YouTube, so I know I am not addressing some schoolboy, sitting at his game consul in his bedroom.' Aw, shucks. Thanks Jack. 'I would expect you to be deeply knowledgeable about EU future policy and although Ireland is not in Shengen, do you really believe you will be allowed to remain like that.' Yes. Every country has its opt-outs, the UK has more than other member, and we have ours. We control our borders while being members of the EU. On Monday Ireland will issue 800 visas for non-EU unskilled workers to work in our meat rendering plants - they will probably come from Brazil as they have done in the past. Why can the UK not put such practices in place while a member of the EU? With respect, your assertions are based on assumptions which in turn is based on fear - fear is frequently the product of ignorance. Religion is less of a problem than ignorance is. Irish identity is secure, and Irish nationalism is confident. It can therefore cope comfortably with immigrants from all over the world, though mostly from Poland, the UK and Lithuania (about 50%). Ireland has learned from the mistakes of the UK and other former imperial powers by integrating immigrants into a culture that is inclusive and at ease with itself. Ireland's 60,000 Muslims are mostly professionals and are well integrated. Only a handful are Islamists and these are 'policed' by both Muslim and the intelligence communities. The future of the EU is not set in stone. While Brexiters tend to simultaneously hold the two opposing 'truths' 1) that the EU will turn into a superstate taking away members rights AND 2) is destined to collapse, in Ireland we understand that EU integration is rapidly reaching its limits. This quotation sums up Brexit for me: 'Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.' - Martin Luther King Jnr.
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  42. How did they help the IRA?
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  43. 'Deport'.... You mean extradite. In Ireland, the judiciary and the executive are separate. The Irish judiciary would not extradite suspects to the UK because the UK judiciary had put innocent Irish people behind bars for terror crimes they did not commit. Your judiciary were not up to standard, and your community made excuses for these shabby injustices. The killings of Protestants on the northern side of the border was IRA policy not the policy of the Irish government. The IRA did not recognise the right of the Republic to exist until 1986 and was responsible for the deaths of Irish security forces. There was no widespread support for the IRA in the south, but that did not mean there was blind support for the politically corrupted, flawed, regime in Northern Ireland either. Peace in the north was only possible because both the UK and Ireland were in the EU. It meant that the UK was forced to treat the Irish government as an equal, while at the same time facilitating regular contact between politicians and civil servants that brought about trust. Its the same with the Irish border - its open nature facilitates trust between those on both sides of it, trust that will increase over the decades. An open border would secure NI place in the union. Its the most perfect imperfect solution. Nobody suggests that if Brexit happens we're going back to 1969, however Sir Hugh Orde agrees that any change to the present border will bring problems. I think he is better qualified than any of us to make such a judgement. So does George Mitchell. And we're NOT talking about Adams here, so I don't know why you mention him - we're talking about Republican types that would put a bullet in Adams head because they see him as a traitor. These are not people 'with a brain'. There is no evidence that the UK leaving the EU will bring you a job and prosperity, quite the opposite in fact, especially in NI. The move toward automation means that all the unskilled will be without jobs in the future, regardless of Brexit. You need to get yourself a skill and then keep upskilling in the future. We all do. Ireland is not Germany. The republic is not overrun with unskilled migrants from foreign lands, it accommodates half a million people from 200 hundred nations (but mostly from Poland, UK and Lithuania) who live and work comfortably among the Irish. You are leaving the EU because of something going on in Germany. Ireland is not in Schengen and has no intention of joining. Ireland deports wasters. Why does the UK not do the same? Ireland will issue 800 work visas for unskilled non-EU citizens to work in its meat processing industry - they will probably come from Brazil - why can't the UK do that while still in the EU? Brexit makes no sense. Borders played a very big part in the way people voted, and yet the Irish border did not figure at all.
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  44. Excellent point. This is something the Irish government wish to avoid and so will not support a border vote until there is evidence that many Unionists will vote in favour of it.
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  45. Totally agree. Any united Ireland would have to negotiated - I think nationalism in the south is ready for that.
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  46. The Free State has not existed since 1937. Any United Ireland would have to be negotiated, everybody knows that.
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  47. Well they are in for a shock then. Everything would on the table: new flag, constitution, national anthem, membership of the commonwealth, federalism; people in the republic would have to get used to the idea of the unionists holding the balance of power on a regular basis etc. I would find some of those changes difficult - but I would suck it up for the greater good.
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  48. Moderate unionists will find a listening ear in Fine Gael - it has southern unionist and ulster-scots traditions going back to its foundation; the socially conservative evangelicals of the DUP will confound the south though.
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  49. A wise post.
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  50. 'The Irish nature is inherently insular, their "Europeaness" won't go very far before they resent its presence in their affairs & reject it.', he said hopefully.
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  51. @ kcirdrab Allow me to clarify; insular as in being closed to outside experiences and ideas. That would certainly describe Ireland between Independence and 1959, and it also describes a backward looking UK which is being taken in that direction by a crisis in English identity to seeking certainty in part in an Empire 2.0. The Anglo-Irish ascendancy played a role in creating the Empire, Wellington being the most famous - the Irish lower orders were co-opted like their English counter parts to deliver it. Your English public-schooled elite have done it again with Brexit, and as with the Empire you will get to wrap your flag around yourself while they rake in the loot at you expense.
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  52. @ kcridrab I agree, you are struggling. It is a measure your ignorance of Ireland that you are trying to shape your insular argument around cosmopolitan influences on Irish soil, when for 800 years Crown and British policy in Ireland was focused on suppressing such influences - using legal, legislative and when necessary military resources available to it. 'Cosmopolitan and Foreign influences' were only permitted for the Anglo-Irish Ascendancy, and they followed the fashion trends of London which in turn were frequently influenced by social and cultural tastes on the continent. The last the thing the British establishment would permit for the natives in Catholic Ireland were any ideas or influences from outside Britain as the Irish could not be trusted with them: after all the Irish practiced the religion of England's enemies, spoke a different language, had a different culture and customs. Nonetheless you will struggle to believe that in the 1790s the Irish nationalists were strongly influenced by the Republican revolutions of France and the USA, which led to the Rebellion of 1798, uniting Catholic, Protestant and Dissenter. You are unaware also Irish traditional music absorbed foreign influences from England, Scotland and France, but this was allowed as such influences were considered harmless. Today it absorbs influences from Africa, the Middle East and the United States, but I guess you don't know that either. Ireland opened up to the world following the publication of the Whitaker Report and the election of Sean Lemass who planned to open Ireland up to the world economically. Both occurred in 1959 and led to a policy change. I'm surprised you did not know about this given your confidence on the topic. 'The creation of Empires contains a lot of loot-raking, & a lot of other things besides, the loot-rakers are quickly forgotten after they die, other things are not & last.' I have no idea what you are trying to say here. You are also struggling with the acceptance of the English identity crisis - I already gave you some examples which obviously flew over your head because you could not contradict them. And while it I am not speaking from personal experience of it or the public school elite, Brexiters personal experience of the EU is equally unreliable. Since 1707 English nationalism has expressed itself through the conduit of 'Britishness', but devolution has undermined it. There is no constitutional account in the UK for the fact that 62% of Scots voted to leave. This is because the 52% leave victory is predicated on the notion that there is a UK demos – but that is not in keeping with the sociological reality of how the UK works and how it has been understood constitutionally over the last 20 years. Following the dismantling of the Empire in 1945 at the behest of the US, the UK has been a vassal of the Americans; this seems to have been acceptable, but the loss of traditional industries, the arrival of immigrants in the 60s and 70s, and the defeat of British militarism on an American conquest in Iraq and Afghanistan seems to contributed to this crisis in English identity and a sense disfranchisement. Brexit depends on a ludicrous notion of the EU as England’s imperial oppressor, and yet the PM TM stood up in Westminster and announced that 'Whilst Parliament has remained sovereign throughout membership of the EU, it has not always felt like that.” In other words, the Leave campaigners’ principal claim, that it was necessary to “take back control” of UK laws, was false, since control had never been lost; and the campaign was based not on fact, but on what it “felt like” – on illusion, on emotion, on a crisis of English identity. Hope that helps.
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  53. @ kcirdrab 3rd Para: I have no idea what a ‘Fenian myth’ is, but you seem to be prepared to heroically deny historical fact: the Crown claimed Ireland from 1172 and Irish territory was considered fair game. The Statues of Kilkenny, the various plantations in Munster, Laois-Offaly, North Wexford and Ulster at various points mark the waxing and waning of early experiments with colonisation, perfected later in the American colonies; the Cromewellian land-grab and the Penal Laws that Ireland was clearly more than ‘a troublesome backwater after the 13th century’. If could apply to the period following the end of the Williamite War. Indeed, over the next 200 years there were more books written about Jamaica by Englishmen after 1650 than there about was about Ireland. I give you an F. 4th Para: more denial, as it is easier than arguing the facts. I’m not aware of any ‘Fenian’ issue here either…some waffle about ‘Pale Aristocracy’, whatever that is supposed to mean, and the announcement that Wolfe Tone, born in Dublin, was not in fact Irish (?). This is followed by a trope about Irish catholics during 1798, which you admit to being self-serving. I can't actually grade this. 5th Para: evasion. NG 6th Para: enter the strawman and a rapid retreat. NG 7th Para: ? NG 8th Para: 8th: ‘English nationalism conduit Britishness (Right). Scots/Welsh devo has undermined Britishness (Wrong, devo came because of Britishness' waning, it didn't cause it).’ I can accept that. A+ ‘62-52% Demos point poorly worded to the point of being lost in obscurity.’ It touched a nerve and you can’t argue it. NG ‘Empire dismantled at behest of USA (It's a little more complicated than that, but the central point you're making is Right).’ Agreed. A ‘UK has been since then a vassal of the Americans (in foreign policy - Right).’ Agreed. A ‘Loss of industrial capacity, foreign immigration in the 60's-70's (should be 1950's to the present), & military defeats for British Army on American foreign wars have created a crisis in English identity. (No this is mainly wrong & misunderstood. The loss of manufacturing capacity caused a crisis in the 1980s to North England & Midlands working class identity, particularly for the youth of those areas, but it was limited to that part of society.’ Yes, I know about the ‘crisis’ in 1980s England, I remember it. Thatcherism created a deeply resented socio-economic divide, which even if its just a perception in some cases, contributed towards a sense of disenfranchisement afterwards. The upshot is ‘Dave in Sheffield’ voting to reject EU membership even though is car assembly plant requires the EU market… on the promise of a better future for which there was no plan, just to poke the establishment in they eye. Making a referenda about other issues is a common problem with referenda everywhere. B ‘Foreign immigration & America's recent petro-chemical wars haven't affected English identity in the least).’ Both have contributed to the retreat from Britishness into Englishness for many Brexiters. You must have been in coma during the referendum campaign if you think foreign immigration was not an issue. F ‘Brexit predicated on the suggestion that the eu was an imperial oppressor (Wrong). Brexit is predicated on the fact that the English & Welsh do not wish to see their Kingdom abolished & replaced by the eu. It's no more & no less complicated than that elemental fact.’ This is new! So replacing your Kingdom is not EU oppression? Incoherent claptrap. You made my point perfectly in a classic example of Brexiter Doublethink! NG. ‘Quote from Theresa May to represent English consciousness (Wrong).’ It is a quote to highlight the lack of substance underpinning Brexit. Again, you use denial as a bolthole as a substitute for critical analysis. There is no ‘English consciousness’ yet – its still evolving. C ‘May is a modern professional political class snake of a low grade, she represents Torysim, not England in any serious way.’ And its Toryism that is representing Brexit, without any agreed vision with itself for the future. F So lets sum up, shall we? 1) You have established that you have no knowledge of Ireland, just stuff you might hear in the pub after a Glasgow Rangers game. I’m not even sure you even understand that stuff either. Once ‘Fenian myth’ is mentioned, I know you are beaten docket. 2) You failed to address the lack of demos in the UK – you just ignored reality, following a fashion in Brexiter Britain. I can’t say I wouldn’t do the same if I was in your position. 3) You contradicted yourself: dismissing the EU as an oppressor with wild speculation regarding EU oppression. It supports my assertion that Brexit is an incoherent English nationalist revolution, just like TMs quotation indicates. Thank you for that. I will be quoting you. 4) You dangled the strawman again, but with no conviction. Why bother with a fallacy at all? 5) You felt more confident when discussing English identity, and while you indicate a few areas where we agree, you emphatically failed address the issue in any coherent way. You actually don’t understand the issue. How embarrassing for you. 6) You should learn to critically analyse. It will reduce your tendency towards evasion and give you the ability to make reasoned, sound arguments.
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  54. You make them work for a living.
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  55. That's an odd position to take.
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  56. Thanks, but I wasn't making one.
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  57. Does it happen a lot?
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  58. If the newly agreed Ireland is done properly and with the consent of the unionist, then the Irish will go for it.
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  59. @ Kcirdrab Not its not. Irish nationalism has evolved and is continuing to evolve in the Republic. The Ireland the revolutionaries created had many similarities to the Britain Brexiters wish for: binary in identity, insecure, backward looking and delusional about its place in the world. Modern Ireland is increasingly inclusive, connected the world, and confident.
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  60. @kcirdrab Nothing is perfect. That said, Ireland was the only country to gain independence between the wars that successfully maintained its democracy. In truth, many of the 'flaws' played a part in securing this achievement. Why would I have a problem with Irish nationalism? It is coherent, had a clear identity, knew what it was for and what it was against. It was also conservative, an unusual trait for a revolutionary movement. In the early period it was insecure and retreated behind a narrow identity. This has changed in its second 50 years of independence to gradually adopting a broader identity and in doing so has reaped the benefits of a more cohesive society. There are now many strands to Irish identity and this change has been caused by opening up to the world, The Troubles in Northern Ireland, returning Irish immigrants and membership of both the UN and the EU. Irish nationalism has matured and and believes that its best days are ahead. Brexit in contrast is incoherent, there is no consensus as to what it is against and cannot agree what it is for. There is no agreed vision. It is underpinned by an English nationalism that cannot admit that England is a country, a nation in its own right and a sense that things were better in the old days - even to the point of Empire nostalgia. It bizarrely feels that membership of the EU is a threat to its culture when its influence around the world is enormous. It is insecure and insular. For us in Ireland our hard-won freedom and sovereignty are things to be shared judiciously and to be deployed intelligently rather than jealously horded away on our island. Research has shown that Brexiters admit to being English first and British second - they cannot also accept the invitation to take on an EU identity alongside their national identity. It is also the case that Brexiters have invented an oppressor, transferring blame for the emphatic failure of successive governments of all hues on to the EU. The upshot? Pensioners in Liverpool voting to Leave and blaming the fact that their German counterparts get higher pensions on the EU; Sheffield car assembly workers voting for Brexit in protest at Westminster even though their jobs depend on exports to the EU; farmers voting for Brexit even though some of their income is dependent on trading with the EU and subsidies from the CAP. It is fascinating to watch. Its history. Marxism is a fatally flawed, failed ideology. Be careful not to introduce a strawman to your argument, it will only highlight an inability to critically think.
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  61. Why? It can only come about through democracy and consent.
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  62. The republic is a modern secular state where freedom of religion is enshrined in the constitution. Why would they have to give up Catholicism? Why would everything have to be 50/50 when unionists will only make up 20% of the population?
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  63. Ireland is not considered to be a high tax economy by European standards.
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  64. The real problem is that Brexit is not compatible with an International Treaty that the UK has committed itself too. The UK has rejected any notion of a Norway deal, despite the promises made before the referendum, so your wish is quite impossible. Furthermore, support for EU membership in Ireland is running at 92% and has increased since Brexit. Turkey cannot join the EU because it does not meet any of the minimum requirements for admission - including liberal democracy. You need to brush up on your knowledge.
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  65. The EU has an agreement with the Turks in relation to keeping Middle Eastern refugees in their country and not sending them on to Greece. That's what the money is for. 'Poland and Hungry have appalling human rights records by their current governments yet are still EU members.' Such as? 'Poland makes it a criminal offence to say there were Polish death camps. Yet there is clear evidence that Jews, Germans, communists, non communists, free thinkers, etc. were murdered by Poles in Polish death camps both before and after WWII.' Yes, of course the Poles object: they were GERMAN death camps in Poland. In Ireland we object to the term 'the Irish border' used constantly in the the UK - its the British border in Ireland. The Irish never wanted a border. If the Poles have a law against the use of 'Polish death camps', that's fine with me, its their business. Contrary to the bullshit of Brexiters, Poland is a sovereign nation within the EU. 'There is evidence that the EU policy of forcing refugees on Ireland is not popular see https://www.irishmirror.ie/all-about/refugee-crisis' There is indeed. There is also evidence of people that are fine with it. Why have you not produced that? 'The EU's dumb policy of trying to put a hard border on Northern Ireland seems to be not popular in both Northern Ireland and Eire.' Its not popular and neither is Brexit. The fact is, it is Brexit that putting a hard border in Ireland, a border nobody in Ireland wants, because Brexit is incompatible with the Belfast Agreeement. It is necessary because the UK intends leaving the Customs Union and regulatory alignment with the EU for lure of low grade trade deals with nations. The fundamentals of international trade therefore make it necessary to put up controls. Remember, its the UK that is changing the status quo, not Ireland or the EU. 'From a distance I can't see why a Norway like free trade agreement would not be accepted?' Take it up with Leavers. After running a campaign stating that it would be quite mad to leave the EU without a deal such the Norway free trade deal, the Swiss model or the Canadian one, the Brexiters immediately stated they wished to leave the Customs Union and Single Market when they won the vote. This is because they want to stop freedom of movement. The Norway deal requires Freedom of Movement. Freedom of Movement is one of the core values of the EU, and the EU will not change that for the UK. The UK is less special than Brexiters think it is. Hope that helps.
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  66. By the way, there is no such thing as 'EU logic'. There's just logic. If the EU is doing something you don't understand, then its because you need to do more research or fact check your sources. There is no 'EU logic'.
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  67. That was quite an incoherent rant. Why should I pay any attention to it given Australia's former policy of forced assimilation of its indigenous people? I mean if you want to wheel out some of the nonsense you are bringing up then logic suggests this issue is relevant. 'The EU has demanded that Australian Greek cheese manufacturers not call their cheese feta because the EU says this is only for Europeans to say. The EU logic again....' It is the EUs role to protect its members and their products. You can't call bubbly wine Champagne either; Irish Whiskey must be actually made in Ireland etc, etc, etc. 'The EU is morally bankrupt in trying to force a hard border in Northern Ireland. If any terrorism arises from a forced hard border in Northern Ireland it will be the fault of the dumb EU logic.' I already explained this to you. Are you stupid or willfully ignorant?
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  68. I'm perfectly calm. Calm enough to know that the forced assimilation of native Australians occurred into the 1960s, long after the Australia was an independent country. Whiskey or Whisky...it is what it is. But its not Irish Whiskey if is not made in Ireland. You can call it whiskey but you cannot call it Irish whiskey. I am unaware of any 'criticism' by Angela Merkel such as you suggest. But considering you think I said that Australians cannot call whiskey 'whiskey' it is probably that your comprehension is suspect in this matter. See how calm I am?
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  69. The aboriginals have said that, have they?
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  70. My only worry are the refugees from Brexit Britain crossing the Irish sea in rafts and small boats. I don't think we have enough direct provision centres for them all.
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  71. Speak for yourself, With a nationalist majority expected by 2021, Brexit is only likely to speed up the inevitable.
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  72. The Republic has no interest in being part of the UK - it had to shoot its way out of it a century ago.
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  73. I've heard worse ideas.
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  74. You need to brush up on you English Victor.
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  75. No. In the event that a united Ireland is a agreed through referenda on both sides of the border on the same day, discussions will begin to agree as to what that new Ireland would looks like. I expect there will be an accommodation of the Britishness of Northern Protestants, which could include the new state becoming a member of the Commonwealth etc. Irish national identity is no longer binary following a period of evolution. You can now be Irish and Catholic, Irish and Protestant, Irish and Muslim, Irish and black, Irish and British, Irish and American, Irish and gay, etc, etc.
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  76. Well, its not just up to you, is it Bazil? In time the UK will break up triggered by Scotland, Northern Ireland or England leaving the Union. Unity will occur resulting in a new agreed, perhaps federal, Ireland within the EU. Brexit is the game changer here, and attitudes towards the union are become more fluid in some crucial quarters of Northern Ireland - principally among the middle class catholics and protestants. You are already ceding Northern Ireland to the Irish within NI. They will be the majority by 2021.
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  77. I expect in the event of a united Ireland, all kinds of imaginative solutions to problems will be explored. I'm sure unionists could hold British passports if they wished - but it will be up to the UK government.
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  78. A good synopsis. Brexit will change the current entanglement, I suspect. A general election in the UK will see a different government and different power balances. Things will evolve further as the reality of Brexit hits home, especially in Northern Ireland and Scotland, but also in England. Dialogue about unity should begin soon. The Republic needs to prepare politically, economically and socially for it as does Northern Ireland and its unionist population. There will need to be an agreed new Ireland, a document that everyone knows they are voting on before there is a border poll. Agreeing any such document will probably take years, but at least everyone will be talking. There are so many potentially influential variables: Scottish Independence, or maybe even the English deciding to dump the Union; the attitude of moderate unionism and moderate nationalism in NI; economics etc.
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  79. According to this poll you're wrong: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/opinion-poll-shows-majority-strongly-support-government-stance-on-brexit-1.3786939
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  80. Brexit resolution?
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  81. Common sense dictates that this will happen. No Irish government will support a border poll unless a substantial minority of the unionist population are in favour and we're a long way off from that yet. However, Brexit may help to become a 'persuader'. I don't understand the what the point of a loyalist bombing campaign would be in such circumstances. Without any strategic point to it, it is unlikely to last any great length. Economically, the whole island of Ireland would be better off in the long term following unity.
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  82. While I believe terrorism is pointless, for Loyalism, the strategy was that if you killed enough Catholics the community would pressurise the IRA to end their violence, therefore protecting the Union. What would their strategy be in the event of a democratic vote to leave the union? There will be trouble, but without a strategy, it would not be able to sustain itself. For unity to have any hope of working it would need the support of a clear majority of the NI population, including a substantial minority of unionists. A majority would be better. Brexit is will force reforms in NI that are economic and social; these in turn will influence the political. I have no doubt vested interests will resist any drift towards unification, but there are other vested interests that may well push for it. All of this is dependent on the nature of the final Brexit deal, of course.
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  83. Irish people are always free to return to their homeland. As it happens, they will not have to leave the UK, as you claim.
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  84. What is strange about him? He sounds like a true patriotic Irishman to me.
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  85. That is exactly the mentality that Unionists had towards nationalists when NI was set up: they excluded them on the grounds that they would sabotage the process. This strategy is a proven failure.
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  86.  @stevenmcalister826  It does not matter what I want. There cannot be a united Ireland without consent, and any united Ireland will have to be negotiated and agreed. Those with a British heritage on the island will have a major role in shaping that Ireland and everything will have to be on the table. I think most us nationalist assume the Unionists will be ones giving everything up, but nationalists will have to sacrifice some sacred cows too. Leaving aside Sinn Féin, who do not 'own' Irish republicanism as much as they might claim it, no Irish political party will support a border poll unless there is evidence that at least a significant minority of unionist are in favour of it. That has to be the minimum starting point. No other Irish party would believe that 50%+1 is sufficient for unity in this day and age. Brexit has taught us how fraught a narrow victory can be, and how divisive.
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  87. Everyone is so confident in their knowledge of how the Irish will vote in a referendum.
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  88. That's fine. Who are the dinosaurs, by the way?
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  89. We were as bad a few years ago - what makes you think NI cannot change? They will have to in relation such human rights in a united Ireland scenario.
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  90. The only Gorilla in the room are your assumptions and ignorance. Irish unity would take place in the context of a new inclusive, perhaps federal, Ireland, with new national symbols and constitution. NI will automatically become part of the EU once again. The only people talking about the Republic giving up its sovereignty to rejoin the UK are frustrated Brexiters. Support for membership of the EU has actually risen since Brexit in Ireland and now stands at 92%. Ireland totally understands all about independence: between 1922-1973 Ireland was politically independent and economically and monetarily dependent on the UK which received 85% of all its exports. Ireland had no say in any decisions in the UK that effected its economy. In the EU, Ireland has diversified its markets and its economy and has an equal say at the table - some the UK can never offer. It can also stay in the EU, unlike the Scots and the NI, because it is free of the dominance of English nationalism. The choice you offer is fantasy. Given that Ireland has a higher GDP per capita than the UK, I would suggest the UK joins a Greater Ireland, with Dublin as its capital. Stupid huh? Now you know how your suggestion sounds to an Irishman.
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