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SonsOfLorgar
Military Aviation History
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Comments by "SonsOfLorgar" (@SonsOfLorgar) on "Military Aviation History" channel.

Better to do something every time on the incomplete data at hand and risk mistakes than to waste a single opportunity of causing decisive damage to the enemy and endanger other friendly units by inaction.
62
And in my Swedish conscript training in 2003, we were always issued enough blanks to fill up our mags and have boxes to top up at least four more mags each, carbines kept loaded all the time in the field. And that was in a mortar platoon. We didn't have any machineguns though, but that was due to regimental command singling us out for palace guard rotation twice in that year so our officers were forced to prioritise parade drill over machine gun qualification. In volounteer defense militia training since 2010, I never experienced any serious ammo shortages on blanks or live rounds except for the Recoilless 84mm. Once or twice there's been a shortage of 7.62×51 blanks at the end of an exercise at platoon level, but then it's always been a result of the two to three machinegunners hogging ~900rnds each, stuffed in repurposed medical kit bags, dump pouches or extra gas mask bags and dialed up the gas regulator on their MAG 58s to 850<1100 rounds per minute...
62
@Hiznogood my maternal uncle was one of the SAAB 35 & 37 pilots that survived to retire to a civilian airline career when he got too old for combat flights, he's implied it was fairly common for some of them to return to base with pine needles and twigs stuck in the weapon rails... It tended to result in a verbal scolding from the CO, at the base command offices for the record, followed by a toast and back pats down at the officers mess...
21
 @YankeeCommie quit lying...
19
SAAB and the Swedish airforce started experimenting with, then analog, radio data links with the SAAB J35 Draken in the late 1950ies, the last version of the Viggen was essentially a sub-systems test platform for the GripenA and had a networked digital data link 😁
15
Yeah, it's an utter disgrace and criminal negligience by our politicians for the last 30 years.
10
@LRRPFco52 we didn't have US/NATO IADS at the time
9
As for coms systems,most of the swedish systems are already NATO compatible, as it was pretty much a prerequisite to decades of active participation in both PFP and, as invitee OP-for in Red Flag exercises 😊 In addition, the SAAB 39 uses mainly NATO standard ordnance, sometimes also availiable modified with our own twist, such as the primarily ground-launched Rb-17 short range anti-ship missile, which is essentially a US hellfire missile modified with an APFRAG warhead instead of the HEAT warhead of the original.
8
We also lost, on average, at least one Swedish airforce pilot a week to low altitude accidents, mistakes or malfunctions throughout most of the cold war... Lost, as in dead or crippled beyond ever recovering flying capability.
6
 @jeandutoit1413 it's not a "Wunderwaffe" it's just an extremely well designed and thus reliable, modular work horse.
6
Wrong. Sweden restarted the conscript system in 2014.
5
I think they won't. Even when bases in neighbouring allied countries become availiable, a dispersed semi-permanent/temporary base doctrine allows a lot of flexibility and shortens the travel time to engagement zone, a factor especially critical for contested airspace CAS.
5
@matsv201 sitting in it and just looking is one thing, filming or otherwise documenting the insides is a whole different matter of national security, not only to Sweden, but also to the export clients that are using it.
5
@williamzk9083 hell, even Leo2A4/A5 is better than the T-72s needing to be replaced, and if the Eastern NATO /EU states want the more modern versions, they can pay for a production licence for the upgrade pack and do the work themselves.
5
Why is my sarcasm sensor lighting up like a coca cola christmas commercial? 😂
5
Good road maintenance and ground crew road sweeper trucks.
5
He's been to the Linköping museum, but I don't think he's been to the Göteborg or Ängelholm air museums.
4
@andreasarnoalthofsobottka2928 interesting about the G3, I have been issued two since I joined my country's national defence militia in 2010, the first one got swapped for the second one in 2020 as part of a modernization upgrade. I think I've had around 5-10 failiures in total between them, half in the first two e exercised on the current one as they were issued drenched in old, sticky preservation grease that had to be cleaned off as best we could with fuel grade alcohol and then clean off all the old, chemically neutralized powder slag the previous user never bothered to clean before he handed it back in for storage. It was so bad, it took around two hours just to get it clean enough to get the extractor spring and extractor block out of the bolt... and just as long to clean the delaying shoulders in the trunion for the bolt rollers. The other failiures can be attributed to the fact that we have to use a brass catcher pouch in peace time which sometimes lets an extracted brass case bounce back into the ejection port in front of the next round as it's pushed forward, jamming up the gun.
4
@pistonburner6448 the Swedish dispersion system isn't even a shed, it's six pre-trained airforce conscripts and a professional technical officer with three trucks with trailers and an escorting base security conscript platoon heading out to a straight, pot hole free section of country road, closing it off at both ends, sweeping the worst debris off the road, set up a turnover area on a rest stop zone and activates a radio beacon... Two planes come in, lands, reverses into the turnover area under their own power, gets rearmed and a hot refuel by four of the conscripts, the technical officer and the other two conscripts takes the log dump and gives the planes an external inspection while the pilots gets a snack and some hot beverage and/or gets out to relieve themselves as quick as possible and back up on the next sortie 10-15minutes later, and with the planes gone, the ground crew with escorts yeets themselves out of there to top up on AV fuel, ordnance and then head out to their next, different stretch of road.
4
@timothyhouse1622 tbf, Rumsfeld wasn't the one who came up with that quote, it's been a maxim since before he was born.
4
@johanlassen6448 you still can't do a straight swap between a Volvo RM12 and the GM original version of the engine. The RM12, just like every single turbine engine and every other piece of equipment made under licence for FMV is modified from the foreign originals to the point that they are not fully compatible with much of the accessories or vehicles made to fit the foreign made originals.
3
@orestes1984 Iirc, Swedish airforce pilots are allowed to fly combat aircraft until they hit 45, assuming they pass all of the recurring medical and physical exams, then they either transfer to logistics aircraft like the C-130 if there's availiable slots, transfer to staff officer/instructor officer duties or retire the airforce to fly as a civilian airliner pilot like my maternal uncle did.
3
@John_Redcorn_ the US planes are definitely designed for war, just not for the same kind of war as the Viggen amd Gripen where all of your airbases are within comfortable range of enemy cruise missiles, glide bombs and even rocket artillery...
3
 @rockfella1377 Marshal Zhukov would be spinning in his grave in rage at Putins naziism if he could...
3
It indeed becomes a force limiter if the number of multirole aircraft is not roughly equal to the combined numbers of single/dual role aircraft.
3
@aaronwilkinson8963 if I knew my loved ones at home would be taken care of practically and economically while I was gone or if I fell, I wouldn't object to a defensive deployment regardless of if it's in my own country or to help defend an ally that's been invaded. Be that Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine or somewhere else.
3
 @TypicalAmericanDad they were keeping up a false apperance of beeing 2nd world... that mask has since failed 😂
3
Technically, Swedish defence industries are not allowed to sell weapons or munitions to any country that's likely to use them offensively. Bofors and a few others circumvent that through selling licences for local production of things like the AT4 and the Carl Gustaf recoilless rifle.
3
In my father's early years as an officer, he had the responsibility to train a FLAK section at his regiment, his sollution to the IFF issue was to buy as many plastic models of the different Aircraft types used by NATO and Warsaw pact countries as availiable along with the right Paints and then have the conscripts he trained assemble and paint the models as accurately as possible as extra evening duty, using recon photos from border patrol and tresspass deterrence intercepts as well as news photos and the box cover art. When the models were done, they fixed drinking straws to the backs of the planes and fitted them to pulley rigs in the celing of the gunnery training hall, so that the FLAK gunners and fire directors would have an as realistic training experience as possible. (This was back in the 70'ies)
2
@vknight7497 while you are correct, if he feels that his outrage at the Russian crimes is too strong to just refer to them as enemy soldiers, who are we to judge?
2
or possibly begging for a basting in Turkey ;)
2
The latest Gripens are aircraft compatible with a simple landing gear modification to interface with catapults and an arrestor hook to catch the cables. And iirc, unmodified Gripens has successfully landed and taken off from aircraft carriers already.
2
@gort8203 for the aircraft not purpose built for highway STOL capacity, yes. The Gripen does not demand a reinforced road beyond what a regular Scania 600hp cargo hauler needs.
2
In addition to the things you mentioned, I think it would be prudent to legislate that the munitions manufacturers should keep the procurement administration informed of the types, qualities and proportions of raw materials and components required/1000units to produce the ammo for all weapons in and within ten years projected to enter service so that the defense forces can keep a buffer stockpile of those materials. I also would like to see, at least in my own country that the tooling for a complete production line of the most used type of ammunition in each weapon system to be likewise procured and stored in a climate controlled protected location so that production capacity can be rapidly expanded regardless of the limits of private buisness practices.
2
@nattygsbord 🤣 sounds like you had some weird nightmares last night my friend... While the field uniforms of all the Nordic countries will be the same in the cut and quality, each country will still be retaining our respective national camouflage patterns afaik.
2
Because we've had no other way to maintain our soverignity since the 1630ies...
2
 @interstellarsurfer your Z armband is showing...
2
 @TheClanAdventures your Z armband is showing too...
2
 @V4zz33 Vadim, you need to stop mixing poison mushrooms with your vodka. It's making you hallucinate.
2
@Farweasel Actual Attrition is what causes the virtual attrition in the first place.
2
US design based licence built engines... which means the US has a veto over SAABs export deals. Same with the Viggen and Draken before it.
2
And for NATO, that should be a highly useful complimentary capability to the already existing assets and tactical doctrines.
2
@pogo1140 and 1 to 3 sorties per day are rookie numbers compared to what the SAAB AJ37 and JAS39 are doctrinally designed for, using public highways as turnaround bases for intact aircraft. 😁
2
@SilvanaDil adding on readying spaces to already existing suitable roads in central and eastern Europe as well as replacing existing street lights and sign posts along those stretches with hinged base equivalents as well as modular safety barriers that can be shifted by unlocking them using a pneumatic wrench and a pallet truck would be an option for enabling the dispersal system. As a Swede, I'd say the Gripen is best integrated as a just-behind-the-engagement-zone compliment to the heavier, longer ranged assets of the current NATO airforces. Especially with the Gripens extensive top of the line networked sensor and EW capability and beyond average reliable availiability as it would allow dispersed Gripens to provide a multirole QRF element close to the engagement zone without vulnerable loitering in a contested airspace while the more maintenance hungry twin engine aircraft of other NATO countries can focus on engaging in depth against enemy bases, supply centers, AWACS, SIGINT higher level SEAD and long range attack aircraft.
2
Yes, Putin is mad as a rabies infected street dog.
1
@davidmcintyre8145 it was caused more by good ol' queen Vic pitting her children and grandchildren against eachother through playing favourites and gaslighting while ensuring that they married into the rulership of the other European great monarchies of the time...
1
So you are trying to tell me that they are operating a flying B17G and haven't paid for the roughly 4000 $200 each ATF Destructive device tax stamps required to keep it fully loaded with ordnance and .50 HEI/APHEI/AP-T belts? 😱😅
1
Go check the Red Flag exercise results of the last two decades.
1
@andreashansson7637 Same here, though I was assigned as a radio specialist (03-04)
1
@LRRPFco52 if Swedish pilots are so bad, why do they so regularily wipe the floor with, the allegedly, "more elite" NATO pilots in Red Flag exercises?
1
@AntonQvarfordt which both Orban and Erdogan does as a favour to their Kremlin based sponsor...
1
@hb1338 which is a risk decided on by the local decision maker in the field within their mission parameters. If it's a failiure, then you fall back, reevaluate, try to get hold of the higher ups to report and get clarification on your situation, and then incorporate the new orders/objective parameters into a new plan and test that one in the new context created by your previous actions. Either way, you keep the initiative forcing the enemy to react to your actions, defensive or offensive, instead of the other way around.
1
If I had unlimited funds, I'd comission a modernized turboprop reproduction as a flying house boat! Also, I want more collaboration with Bo & Ham & Stickboy ;)
1
Funny you call it a "red flag" Peter... As the Gripen tends to excell among the frequently invited to that specific anual US airforce exercise... especially when allowed to fly with Swedish floor/ceiling regulations and SOP🤣
1
The only way to fail a comparison this hard is by ONLY comparing physical airframe size. Because yes then a Gripen is like a small bicycle next to the bus sized Su35. But when you then look closely, you see that the bicycle is electric with a top speed of 90km/h, all the high tech gadgets not even availiable on the public market yet, while the bus is nothing more than a repainted old tourist hauler with new tires but the same old leaky brakes, gearbox that only runs on 3rd gear and engine that sounds like someone's dumping live pigs in an ore crusher...🤣
1
@paulgoransson9489 and, our new government isn't helping either through their pathetic groveling before both of Putins partners in ideology: Erdogan and Orban...
1
@nattygsbord and since parentage and pregnancy isn't an issue with conscripts (medical discharge or postponement of conscript training or allocated to civil defence conscription at mustering evaluations in case of pregnancy) It would only become an issue with cadre officers if there's no provisions set up for it. Eg, officers who choose to keep an intentional or unplanned pregnancy can get transfered to administrative and/or base logistics duties until they go on parental leave and then return to their former rank and duties when recovered, no different from any physically demanding civilian job in most aspects.
1
Number of produced airframes (less than 400 in total across all versions and variants) And lack of production capacity (1 factory with 1 production line afaik)
1
Roflmao! Dude, the ONLY standardisation within NATO is on fuel, ammo and communication transfer protocols. Swedish defense systems have been using NATO standards as a design baseline for backwards compatibility since the 1960ies... If you want to avoid revealing your looser ignorance in the future, start by reading up on what you've been told you should rage against before you start typing...😂😘
1
@stevehammond9156 that's like calling a pug beautyful... 😉
1
@jimb9063 yeah... the missile's proximity fuse tends to detonate before actually hitting the target anyway. Your best bet for an IR guided manpad would be to fire a signal flare gun in the general direction at the missile if you have time to draw and shoot at all. Basically requires you to have the flare gun loaded in an immediate access location in your chest rig/webbing AND spot the manpad team as soon as they stand up to start aiming or you won't have time to draw, cock and fire before the missile is close enough to ventilate your aircraft anyway even if it detects and explodes on the flare...
1
@jackdanson2 I belive you, but I presume you can't track it even when you glimpse it? Mortar shells going out on the other hand is pretty easy to spot and track for the first few hundred meters of the trajectory, and they fly at roughly the same V⁰ as the .45ACP but is the size of a magnum bottle of champagne XD
1
Regarding the Gripens ground strike capacity compared to Eurofighter, have you taken into account that the Gripen is designed for extremely quick turn around between sorties, even to the point of rotating multiple pilots on each plane to keep those bombs and missiles hitting where it's needed.
1
 @pistonburner6448 how about you quit lying?
1
@kronop8884 not BAS 90, no. That said, my reply to pistonburner was evidently misunderstood as critique of the dispersion system, instead of the endorsment it was meant as. And I know there's quite a lot more to the system than the basic reciving and serviceing the planes as that's just one cog in the integrated nation wide machine that is the successor to the BAS60/STRIL60 systems that served my uncle before he got too old for combat flights and retired to civilian airliners instead of a desk. I would also presume that the Navy and Amf.Reg. uses a successor system to the STRI-KA command and control network my father participated in developing back in the late 1980ies. 😁
1
Things like unexpected sailing boats, sea birds, pine trees and the sea spray from another fighter plane's jet wash...
1
It's almost impossible as it's definitely using frequency hopping technology with over 50 years of improvements since Sweden started using it in ground based costal artillery and air defense tracking and surveillance radars. Back then it was top secret and unused in peace time until it's existance was suddenly revealed to foreign powers as one of my fathers officers academy friend and colleague, ordered his radar operator to flip the switch from single frequency "peace" mode to frequency hopping "war mode" when the Soviet baltic fleet started to accelerate towards Swedish waters during the "Whiskey on the rocks" incident. One of the radars that switched to frequency hopping was deployed at the range finder location of a supposedly decomissioned ww2 era 21cm battery, and the surprise of that location along with the frequency hopping radars making all the soviet ECM useless in a heartbeat convinced the Soviet admiral to crash stop his entire fleet and stay in international waters... What the Soviets didn't know, was that despite all those advanced radars, only a single Swedish mobile costal artillery gun had had the time to mobilise, deploy and report ready to fire, a couple of minutes ahead of the other three pieces in it's unit. Other costal artillery assets were on their way to deployment areas, but were half an hour to an hour away from beeing ready to fire...😅
1
@aliceberethart except in the late 1990ies and early 2000s when our politicians kidney punched the entire costal artillery branch out of existance, gutted strategic air defence, engineers, logistics, signals and artillery down to a single regiment each, gutted the navy down to two bases, got rid of all of the sea knight heavy transport helis, all but one of the field hospitals and destroyed or sold off all of the civil defense organisation and stockpiles, including almost 9 MILLION civilian pattern gas masks and 24h protection suits with a one year supply of CBRN filters, and it's nation wide dispersed one year supply of fuel, seeds, metals, medicine etc.
1
@michaelrunnels7660 as a Swede, I agree that the Gripen probably isn't the right aircraft for canada unless they expect a US invasion attempt within the next decade, and that would be Trump level delusional.
1
@aaronwilkinson8963 that's still a choise, one just has to be willing to accept the consequences of the choise. It's also a significant difference between the universal conscription based defence system of my country and the volounteer system of the Brittish army. That said, I may have been a bit too vague when I wrote offensive war as there's a huge distinction between a war of agression. Eg, Russian attack on Ukraine, and a defensive war taken into enemy territory to remove the instigators and the agressors capacity to rearm, reform and restart the agression a few years down the line like the Allied push into Germany in ww2. The latter, I have no moral objections to, quite the opposite.
1
 @andrzejpl9897 you should probably also fix the hole in your jacket sleeve, your swastika armband is showing...😂
1
 @nattygsbord a dozen or two Gripens would make a decent fast turnaround compliment to the slower turnaround but heavier payload capacity of the F16s though
1
Most of the A versions sub systems was tested out in a Viggen. Most of the concepts that has resulted in the Gripen A/B, C/D and E/F started with analog electromechanical systems in the SAAB 35 Draken😁
1
@nattygsbord only growing GDP≠more availiable tax money since our economic systems has been corrupted to allow an ever increasing percentage of the GDP to be concentrated and siphoned out of circulation into tax deducted/under taxed and/or tax excempt private fortunes which creates exponentially worsening artificial deficiencies in every other aspect of the global economy.
1