Comments by "" (@titteryenot4524) on "Can Spanish Speakers Understand French? | Easy Spanish 260" video.

One of the intriguing things about this is how most of the interviewees seemed to have basic, even negligible, French skills and yet how close they are to the French border. One would think that as with, say Nice, where Italian proximity seems to make most of the French inhabitants there seem bilingual in French and Italian, that a similar phenomenon would obtain here in Barcelona. But no. It seems to work a bit better on the other side of the Pyrenees, where in San Sebastián I encountered many trilingual people (Basque, Spanish, French), old and young, and actually this phenomenon lingered as far west as Bilbao, to a certain extent. I suppose what I’m saying is that I expected that far more French-speaking Barcelonais would be randomly found on the streets of Barcelona than is the case in this sample. 🇪🇸
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It’s not, really. It’s spoken French that is the issue. The actual learning of the grammar and written language is no more difficult than English. English is more difficult in many ways: pronunciation; number of words (1,000,000+); patterns of grammar etc. I’m willing to bet that you are saying English is easier to learn simply because this, out of the two languages, was the one you were most exposed to when growing up. If you had been taught French at school as a main second language you would say something different. For example, the main reason I am more comfortable with French than, say, Spanish or Italian, is because at school I was exposed to it. I’m willing to bet good money that your main second language exposure while at school was English, not French, ergo you feel more comfortable with the former, and not the latter.
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@canchero724 Fair point about Basque cross-border cultural connections and you are right, they are quite strong. But on the eastern Pyrenean side too, there is quite a strong Catalonian cross-border thing going on such that, for example, in Perpignan it’s not the colours of the French tricolour you see, but the red and yellow of the Catalan flag, whose colours are very predominant. But your point is right and I would say, only anecdotally, the Basque ties are perhaps stronger.
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@alexiveperez4687 Fair point. But I’m willing to bet, albeit only from anecdotal experience, that 50+% of Barcelonais speak Catalan, if not as a first language, then as a strong second back-up. Last time I was in the city, it seemed like the de facto language ‘setting’, as it were, was Catalan, and this particularly in the under 35s. Spanish was only reverted to when they realised I was drawing a blank in Catalan. Also, I have met dozens of non-Catalan Spaniards over the years (I’m old) who all, almost to a man and woman, had stories to tell about how they were made to feel outsiders in Barcelona if they spoke Castilian Spanish only. Language is power, after all; this fact is well known, and one of the easiest ways to assert identity, power, and that feeling of ‘this is who I am’ is through language and also, accents. Human beings judge, hence Jesus’ famous injunction not to do so (I’m agnostic, incidentally, but it’s apposite here), and the most obvious way we all judge others, after personal visual appearance, is how others speak.
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Don’t overestimate how easy Spanish people find French; as with just about the rest of the world they find it just as daunting; not so much the written language, but that notorious way the French enunciate and swallow words at speed that can seem bamboozling to the French-learning neophyte. In my experience, albeit only anecdotal, the best French-speaking Spaniards fall into 2 main categories: those in close proximity geographically to France and those self-motivated learners who have consciously made a decision to learn French. As for the rest, it seems they are indifferent and, like most others, find the language tough to tackle.
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@quico522 I recall getting the TGV from Perpignan to Barcelona quite recently and, from memory, it took 1h20. Back in the day (I’m old enough to remember) I did this same trip and think it took about 3h, taking the scenic route and winding its way through Portbou. I just assumed that with increasingly speedy transport connectivity, along with the quite strong cross-cultural Catalan intermixing, that most people within a boundary, say, from just south of Narbonne on the French side, to Barcelona, would be, almost as a matter of course, trilingual in French, Spanish and Catalan. Put it this way, if I were of either Basque or Catalan heritage I would almost feel it my duty to know French, Spanish and Basque/Catalan, if not fluently, then at least to an advanced level.
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@roxercita Yeah, I get the whole Franco suppression of minority languages thing; but surely there were ‘underground’ Basque and Catalan resistance movements promulgating their respective languages. Also, I find it slightly ironic that Franco suppressed these minorities when he himself came from Ferrol, Galicia, a place with its very own language more akin to Portuguese than to Castilian Spanish!
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@alexiveperez4687 I accept your rejoinder and the statistics therein. Reading between the lines, however, and correct me if I’m wrong, I’m sensing that you are quite strongly anti-Catalan national independence, and if so, this will inevitably be colouring your stance, and you’ll be quoting me the statistics to bolster your argument. Could you confirm or deny whether you are for or against Catalan independence?; I’m assuming you’re Spanish and if so, you’re bound to have an opinion on this. I have no Spanish heritage and am coming at this from objective a stance as possible in these terms, that is, I have no real opinion either way as to the desirability of Catalan independence, whereas, most, if not, frankly all, non-Catalan Spaniards I have ever met are quite vehemently (yes, I would use that tendentious a word) anti-Catalan independence. I know the Spanish constitution, as it stands, forbids any kind of nationalist secession, but this doesn’t necessarily dampen the separatist fires burning in the souls of many a Catalan, and, come to this, many a Basque and, to a lesser extent, a fervent, albeit non-mainstream, Galician cohort. As I said somewhere else, language is power, and, of course, these 3 regions have their own distinct language, much to the chagrin of many a non-Galician, non-Catalan, non-Basque Castilian-speaking Spaniard I have met through the years, and I’ve met a fair few.
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@alexiveperez4687 Understood. But … Barcelona and its wider metropolitan area is hardly representative here, as it’s an international city with a strong admixture of internationals and non-Catalan Spaniards. I have traveled fairly extensively in the region over the years (Lleida, Vic, Puigcerda, Tarragona, all over really) and what struck me in all these places was the strength of Catalan feeling for, yes, full independence. Most were speaking the language, and most were not wealthy elites, which, as you suggested, was the part of the Catalan society most in favour of independence. For example, I was in Girona about 5 years ago for a few weeks, and everyone, and I mean everyone, was as the default setting, speaking Catalan (to me, Castilian, as a non-Catalan speaker); young, old, wealthy, not so wealthy. I think this is more representative of what’s going on rather than the slightly anomalous city of Barcelona. You didn’t really answer my question though. So, again, tomorrow, Catalonia, the Basque region and Galicia all become independent: what would your feelings be about this? You say you’re not political, and I respect this, but you will have feelings either way, I’m sure. Part of the reason I ask is that over the years I have sensed a strong emotion, almost fear, of the aforementioned regions’ secession from the wider Spanish state, in the rest of Spain. Yes, they grumble and mumble in public about those pesky people in the northern regions talking independence, affecting an air of insouciance, but when it comes down to it, if the Spanish state were to split, as we currently know it, these non-separatist wider Spaniards would almost feel it like the loss of a limb. I don’t just mean the wider economic implications of regional secession and independence but I mean an almost metaphysical sundering of their very being and identity; like losing a brother or sister.
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@alexiveperez4687 Yeah, but in Girona, in Vic, in Puigcerda?
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@alexiveperez4687 In my experience, you’re rare. People creating self-identity around the primary fact of an accident of birth is really what most of this planet’s population upholds. You’re the first individual I’ve heard in some time seeming to express that you hold no truck with this; that you don’t take ‘pride’ that you were born somewhere and not somewhere else. Refreshing to hear. Thanks for your comprehensive replies.
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@alexiveperez4687 I find it funny you say that you think Spaniards don’t have a very good opinion of themselves; I am old and have visited your country literally dozens of times and if there’s one thing I didn’t detect, ever really, it was lack of civic (I hesitate to use the word ‘national’) self-confidence. What I perceived, rightly or wrongly, and I’m willing to be corrected, was an extraordinary self-confidence based around the following: language; food; natural beauty of the landscape; climate; appearance (most Spaniards I have met would be mortified, I suspect, if one dared suggest they were anything less than impeccable in personal appearance); beauty and rich culture of Spanish cities; sporting achievements; artistic legacy, in architecture and painting and literature; the list could go on. I find it fascinating that you, a Spaniard, are telling me that actually, despite appearances, Spaniards actually lack self-confidence!
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@alexiveperez4687 Ok, this is fascinating. I’m British (Scots-born) and my feeling is, as I said above, a sense of strong civic pride and cultural confidence in Spaniards. Here, I detect the opposite. In Scotland in particular perhaps, but also in the UK in a wider sense I detect a sense of a lack of confidence based on bad climate; poor food; questionable national historical legacy (empire and all that ignominious jazz); poor general education, indeed, in many quarters a kind of actual disdain for the idea of the life of the mind (how many of us, aside from those self-motivated linguists among us, learn other languages?); poor, atomised, family lives; tribal politics; alcohol abuse (and drugs; here in Scotland we have consistently had the highest European drug death rates for aeons); misfiring national sports teams (mainly football), and so on. For me, when I travel in Spain every person I meet with, more or less, radiates this glowing self-confidence; of course, many will be putting on an act, for whatever reason, but it’s not arrogance; I associate that more with France, a country I’m fond of in many ways. No, as I say, Spain doesn’t radiate weak confidence vibes to me but you and I could just be meeting different types of Spaniards!
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I’m also willing to bet that most of Spain’s lack of national chauvinism, if the, often invidious, surveys are to be believed, is rooted in relatively weak national economic performance. I can’t account for it, otherwise, can you? Maybe also a lack of trust in the national institutions as well; perception of widespread corruption? I would add that Spain is consistently rated higher in these surveys by non-Spaniards, so it could be a case of Spain proving Burns’ insightful words: O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us; To see oursels as ithers see us! (Oh, would some Power give us the gift; To see ourselves as others see us!)
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@alexiveperez4687 Just fluent in gibberish, mate!😆
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@evab2274 Marvellous input. Moral of story: unless for professional interests, no one in Barcelona will learn French. P.S. As an Edinburgher, you have my deepest condolences for marrying a Weegie!😆
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If you think it’s easy mixing up the words in French and Spanish it’s even more so when it comes to an English speaker learning Spanish & Italian. I’m fluent in French and semi-fluent in Spanish and Italian and, while I found mastering French relatively easy (largely as it was the foreign language I studied in school), it has taken me so much more time to grasp Italian and Spanish and keep them disentangled. Keeping French in a separate box is easy enough. Doing this with Italian & Spanish is quite tricky, to say the least.
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@eoseguinte7529 I understand what you are saying. For the record, I’m not French, but Scottish.😉
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@euroesc5013 Then why do so few Catalans, it seems, actually speak French beyond the obvious basics?
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@nauudb Fair point. I repeat this point though: Greater Catalonia, for want of a better term, encompasses parts of France and Spain, and the Basque areas ditto, therefore one would think it incumbent on those, at least those with genuine Basque/Catalan heritage, but also, arguably even those who have chosen to settle there and have no intrinsic Basque/Catalan links, to learn French and Spanish and Basque/Catalan. Put it this way, if I moved to live in Perpignan and I were planning to root myself there, French, obviously, would be paramount and indispensable, but a strong working knowledge, at the very least, of Spanish, would be required and then perhaps a glancing nod to Catalan. On the other side, in Barcelona, ditto for 1. Spanish 2. Catalan 3. French. But, as I said somewhere else, if I had actual Catalan or Basque heritage I would feel almost duty-bound to know the apposite 3 languages.
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@euroesc5013 Gotcha! Actually, that makes sense. I can speak, read and write English, French, Spanish and Italian to a good level; however, I’ve had little exposure to Portuguese, but given the Latin linguistic ballast in my brain I could probably understand many Portuguese words, and deduce the rest from the given context. My issue, if it is an issue, is how Barcelona is now, via the TGV/AVE, 1h from the French border, yet, apparently, many Barcelonais don’t speak French, beyond the basics. They even seem scared of it, when they are not just indifferent. They recognise it, yes, but beyond that not much else. I find that fascinating.
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@paranoidrodent The Canadian French accent, to these British ears, sounds more sing-songy than French spoken by native French folk. Similar to how the American English of the Minnesotans, amongst other northern North Americans, sounds quaint and almost Scandinavian. Different ears hear different things though, depending on one’s own upbringing. For example, I, a Scot, cannot abide thick Glaswegian accents, while others adore them. It’s all a matter of taste and there’s no legislating for that!
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@paranoidrodent French spoken in France varies quite remarkably, for such a relatively (in Canadian terms) small country. Marseille has an Italian thing going on, which is not that surprising, given its history and relationship with its cousins 250km along the coast to the east. Up north, you have the ch’ti dialect of French, which is difficult for me to properly tune into, but sounds quite charming, with all its Flemish phlegm and notwithstanding its unintelligibility. Only really was alerted to this via the film, ‘Bienvenue Chez Les Ch’tis,’ from a few years ago. Never been to Minnesota, but ‘Fargo’ looms as it was set there with all those Twin Peaksy, otherworldly accents. Of course, the state bred the marvellous Jayhawks, as well, so my radar has clocked that state for this reason. We are all mongrels. That’s why it amazes me that the human species places so much emphasis on an accident of birth when it comes to self-definition. I’ve never fully understood this thing whereby one takes pride in the fact one’s mum plopped one out here and not there. You had no say in the matter, so being ‘proud’ of this seems nonsensical, irrational and dangerous, given human history over the last 300,000 years. As for Catholicism; well, an inexplicably influential force in the history of humanity, that, amazingly, to this day folk still adhere to. I’m a lapsed Catholic; can you tell?
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@paranoidrodent You’re dead right about the richness and complexity of language and accents, certainly here in the UK, but also in France, with which I’m slightly less au fait. It almost changes village to village here in Scotland, never mind city to city. I’m fascinated at how, in this era of dominant globalisation, these accents and their differentiating minutiae have managed to survive, indeed, in some cases even strengthen, in the face of a wave of monolingual (English), mono-accented (mid-Atlantic) mainstream global culture that has been wittingly or otherwise, resisted by all those who still speak in a unique, distinct manner. Yeah, ‘Bienvenue …’ is a film I saw about a decade ago, and from hazy memory I recall it being a bit too free and easy with the lazy stereotypes (cultured southerners versus northern boors; it’s always sunny down south versus it’s grim up north etc), but I forgave this, in part because I giggled so much. It was smooth and a little too trite in its vision, but for a few diverting belly laughs it was just the ticket! Oh, where does one begin with Catholicism and its, erm, ‘philosophy’. First of all I knew, aged 9, when I asked my Catholic school R.E. teacher why there were no female priests and why the Pope was always a man and she shrugged at me and more or less said, ‘It’s God’s will’, that there and then this Catholicism malarkey was a bit rum, and not necessarily in a good way. ‘Oh, and why is God a man, Miss?’, well let’s just say the look on her face suggested an upstart like me asking such impertinent questions ought to disengage the brain and just accept it. It just was. Not good enough for me, even at that age, and when I looked into the whole shebang a little more and saw a benighted thinking (if you could call it such), denying women a choice in terms of their bodies’ reproductive status, banned abortions, under any circumstances, however horrendous, and wanted me to go into a wee booth and confess all my dirty thoughts to a, frankly creepy, stranger in a frock, well, I ran for the hills to breathe the clean air of a life without following unsubstantiated, and often pernicious, moral dictums enunciated by an invisible sky God. Atheism (or for me, agnosticism: call me weak) seemed a better option: a non-prophet organisation with no invisible means of support.
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