Comments by "Kora Na" (@korana6308) on "Sandboxx"
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@kinggooseman5373 I don't understand what's going on, but everyone seems to be severely misunderstanding my point. It does matter whether it's armed or not. The fighter jet plane has a purpose - it's purpose is destroying it's targets. Without having it's weapons loaded, it has no purpose. So trying to make an argument that it's stealthier when it has no weapons installed is meaningless, because it won't ever be used without it's weapons, by the very definition. The only fair comparising is comparing both planes as mission ready and fully loaded. And Su 57 wins in that, hands down. Now I would even argue that the F18 has it's wing mountings attached which makes it's wings not smooth, and therefore severely detectable. But again this is all just speculation. My whole point only is that people are trying to downgrade it for the sole purpose because they have a certain predisposition towards that Su 57 plane. And it really saddens me. As Alex had said it himself, this whole definition thing has been bamboozled anyway. And to me there's only one clear distinction for a 5th gen. Storing your munition fully concealed inside the plane's fuselage. Therefore the Su 47, Su 57, Mig 144 / J20 (it was developed and modernized from the Russian Mig 144), F22 and F35. Are all 5th gen fighter jets. Precisely because of their internal missile storage. As it is the most reliable way of reducing your RCS. So everything else below that is 4th gen. End of story. Thanks.
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@ I am talking specifically of the cases INSIDE and over an active combat zone. It has never been used. Unlike with the Su57 which flies in and out of combat on the daily basis. Also not even close to the intensity of the battlefield that we have now. On top of the levels of intelligence that it receives and it also has Patriots and S300 of different versions of the Soviet bloc countries and on top of the all of the western AA systems to begin with etc. TRY doing the same thing with any of the adversary crafts, it would be IMPOSSIBLE. In fact we already know that it's impossible because every craft that's adversing Russia atm is hiding at the back, and the reason why no modern crafts are being deployed rn(although not officially. Unofficially they are flying day in and out over the Romanian borders... fyi, as reconnaissance and guidance crafts, they just haven't launched, at least officially, any missiles yet). So the only craft that is capable of doing it IS the Su57, and it's the ONLY aircraft that hasn't been shot down yet. Every other serving craft in the Russian VVS has been shot down... and also all of the adversary crafts were also shot down and would be shot down too if they were to be deployed (including strategical ones, but it's a whole another topic... ) . They are not deployed precisely because they would be doing the exact same missions, and would be shot down anyway eventually (whilst being at the back and not flying close to the combat zone anyway)... The only plane that can't be, and hasn't been shot down yet is the Su57 which proves that it is the best fighter in the world.
As per the number of crafts produced (again not relevant to it's effectiveness which is the whole point I was making to begin with), it's not really a secret, so I don't know why you make such a big deal about it. It produces around 150 crafts per year. ~ 120 of which are of the A version. ~ 20 of B version and ~ 10 of C version. Give or take a few crafts here and there. As it varies year by year... but it's in those sorts of ranges. And it's not a secret, as I got those numbers directly from the documentary itself from one of it's developers. The Su 57 numbers is also not really a secret. Around 24 crafts per year. Which makes it yes, around the VTOL numbers levels of production, give or take... The exact number slightly higher or slightly lower, doesn't really matter. But again, it doesn't change the fact that it's a better craft to begin with. It's worse in terms of units produced, I give you that. But better in everything else (including it's unit cost, cost of maintenance, cost of the flight per hour etc. are several times cheaper, on top of it being a better craft to begin with.)
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@MiG-31893 if Su57 is 4.5 gen then the F22 and F35 is 4th gen. Because it surpasses everything of it except it has slightly less stealth, but everything else is leagues ahead.
Also don't wanna burst that bubble... But those RCS values are made up. Did you know that the RCS is different for different weather conditions, angles of attack, types of radars, angle of the radar to the craft and etc. And each country calculates them differently. And especially those RCS numbers for the F22 and F35 were proven to be false... Though I'm not denying that it's better. That's a fact that stealth is slightly better on the F22 and F35 but Su57 is also stealthy and was developed with an "efficient stealth" in mind i. e. don't spend too much on it, just make it "good enough". And it is "good enough" for it's tasks, as it hasn't been shot down once, whilst flying over the combat zone daily.
NATO countries can't chose Russian crafts because they are bound by their contracts, and also eco. warfare. For example, did you know that Russia would absolutely wipe the floor with commercial space flights if it were allowed into the "free market" (which is not that free), as with the current level it costs Russia around $1k per kg, and will in a few years in the 2030s be $100 per kg or less to LEO. But precisely because the w. is not interested in Russia dominating the market, it just restricts the whole world working with Roscomos. Because they can't win them competitively... That's the same thing with everything else, I could give many examples. And it's the same thing with military tech. If they could they would in a heartbeat. (There are also some complications as establishing a certain countrys mil. partnership takes commitments, takes time and bureaucracy etc, and that's why most of the countries just stick to their previous partners etc)
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@ again and again. Prototyping and pre series stage is different to the actual series craft that has entered service officially. So comparing the 2 types of crafts is not correct. It doesn't matter what caused it, it's still a crash. That's the point.
And thank you for finally mentioning that "loss" , as that "loss" turned out to not be a loss. And yes all of the propagandists were claiming that it as a loss lol, and there were no way for me to tell the truth, because they would just ban it lol. So I was watching it unfold in real time, and watching all of the propagandists spewing the same propaganda about it without the actual facts lol. None of the crafts were lost, one went for repairs and is now flying on an active duty.
But I knew you would mention it, 2 days ago lol. So I was waiting to respond to it for 2 days 😂. That my point still stands as it's got nothing to do with it's reliability, because it was not operated at that time, it was just standing in an airfield base and got battle scarred because of it, which is good because it proves that it was being deployed near the battlefield... Otherwise people would be claiming (like they were claiming before and claiming to this day) that it wasn't anywhere close to the battlefield lol... So without it getting scarred while standing there it wouldn't even get any publicity at all, because it's the perfect 5th gen. And so propagandists won't even mention it in a good light. They would only wait till something bad happens to mention it. So in a way it was a perfect publicity stunt to some degree and I'm glad that it happened since it wasn't destroyed ,but because they thought that it did, it got mentioned by every single tech propagandists that I know of.
And again the Su57 is constantly deployed on the battlefield on a daily basis, and hits his targets also daily. Though it's not his main role since it is trained controlling the S70 drone and cooperating it's forces on the battlefield through reconnaissance and control, on top of it fulfilling it's combat missions with missiles too. It is the most used 5th gen plane in the world. And it hasn't been shot down or crashed even once. Which proves that it's the best 5th gen in the world and nothing even comes close.
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@ For example the Al51 engine (it's derivative). Has the highest thrust to weight ratio of any jet engine, has 3D vectoring technology, optional stealth nozzle, the most reliable, the cheapest, the most efficient, with plasma ignition system, modern computer controls of different efficiency modes etc. an absolute unmatched marvel of engineering. That no one else in the world can match. The only thing that can potentially be better is either the Russian next gen or the NGAD engine, which I'm eagerly waiting on at this point. That is the only thing that can potentially surpass it is the 6th gen engine. But at the moment, nothing even comes close to, comparing it to the closest rival the F135 , it has slightly more max thrust (cruise/combat thrust is about the same) and there are more F135 engines, and also there's an option for a vertical take off variant VTOL... and that's the only 3 redeeming factors to it's closest rival... Everything else is better for the Al51, which is the engine of the Su57M. And is one of the factors why it is the best craft. I am absolutely fascinated with that engine, especially when you learn the history of it and how the school was developed... Not sure if that would be interesting to listen to, but I could absolutely write a book a bout it...
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@MiG-31893 I'm sorry I wish I could, but I can't. Most of the sources are auto censored. And trying to crypt it or trying to find which sources aren't censored is too tedious (most of them are), and like 80% of my messages are censored etc. But I can assure that you I've watched and read plenty of videos (most of them are censored on yt) and official articles on it, more than 10 documentaries just on the Su57 alone where they had different interviews with engineers and developers etc as well as probably every video on yt about the Su57 itself as well etc. (most of the info in those videos is incorrect, but it can't be corrected because the official sources are censored, and my msgs are usually censored, so people just regurgitating same information that is allowed to exist i. e. an eco chamber of information).
Something to look out for, there are also confusion with the Su57 (base model) and the Su57E which have different engines ( AL41), so that's where some of the confusion comes from as well. There are also different versions of that engine too, different variations of the Al51 engine I know of at least 3 modifications, but I'm pretty sure there are probably at least 2 more (anyway it's complicated).
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@MiG-31893 First of, what's that got to do with it being a good plane? It proves that it's a good plane because it hasn't been shot down once in an active combat zone. Second of all, It did wipe all of the main forces, whatever was in the skies when it was given the task (it has plenty other roles). Everything is flying low and at the back of the country at this point.
Thirdly that's not "just a slightly better engine, that's an entire generation worth of better. It's like comparing an Al31 to the F119, and claiming that it's slightly better... I mean it's the whole another generation over it, and the only thing that's keeping it there not slipping from the current gen is because the 5th gen itself was defined with an introduction of the F22 (but also they were promising to improve that engine thrust too with an upgrade, but no guarantees and "fingers crossed"...).
The defense budget got nothing to do with the actual power, when you consider like a million different factors, going over each would again be tedious and most of the words would be censored anyway, but you have to understand that Russia was always going more economical with it's spending compared to the US and also spent alot of it's budget back in the Soviet Union on defense, when most of the budget of the Soviet Union was going on defense to begin with, hence WHY it had the good base for it's modern tech development to begin with. It was based on the Soviet Union spending. Also there are certain techs and programs etc which are better for Russia according to their doctrine (it's all extremely complicated) but basically the US always pushed with the development of their planes and aircraft carriers (also I'm not denying and never did that the US had better stealth, that's just a fact, but good stealth costs alot, and Russia went for efficient stealth instead of the expensive stealth etc, which is "good enough"), so they had advanced that part of the warfare the most, and Russia was focusing more on the missile defense, nuclear submarines, tanks and etc etc etc hence why this side is better for Russia. etc etc etc there are many factors to consider and to discuss. So it has better tech in the key areas of the warfare that it applies it's doctrine to, and also the Su57M planes are now better than the US counterparts as well... with the exception ofcourse that it doesn't have that many of them to begin with, and it literally just entered service this year, this particular modification... and USA still has the lead in the amount of drones and modern planes etc. etc. etc. which costs alot of money etc etc etc.
I'm sorry it's too much to discuss, and write, I hope at least this message goes through though...
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@MiG-31893 Lol how would you know which it did or did not shot down lol. As I've said before, it'd done a plethora of other missions, so it doesn't need to be targeting other crafts as the other Su crafts are doing that job perfectly fine anyway. The Su57 has other missions and is there for other more important and specific missions, which it finds plenty of, without it being used as just a vessel for missiles( though it does use them, but its not the main focus).
Also I though we were comparing it to the F35, because F22 is older, but if you want to compare it to the F22... everything is better.
1 Better engines.
2 takes more ordinance.
3 flies further.
4 cheaper, lower maintenance costs.
5 better EW and sensory fusion.
etc.
Also lets just establish that it's got all of the bells and whistles of the modern gen F35.
But compared to the F22, it's got 6 additional radars all around it's fuselage for the 360 radar coverage (plus the additional at the front). Satellite communication and ew com. . Better EW, as it can create an EM decoy/ skew it's signature away from the craft (on top of all of the standard antennas, track and guidance jamming etc etc etc) So it's literally better in every meaningful way. The F22 has the technology of the 1995. The Su57M has the technology of 2025. I think the difference is obvious. It is obviously closer in it's electronics and sensory fusion to the F35, but you already know that it's better...
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@MiG-31893 And I could debate the opposite.
Again it not having a stealth inlet is the exact same misconception as it not heaving a stealth coating... It does have both. Except it went for an efficient stealth variant which doesn't cost much money but is good enough for it's job of stealth.
You can clearly see different type of inlets with comparison to the previous gen of the Su27/Su30/Su35 inlets. Those changes angles and that slight bend are there precisely for the stealth purposes which are again,good enough for it's stealth.
Also the heat got nothing to do with it, it's done purely for radio wave scatterings and absorption.
You've also mentioned F22 and J20, but I don't want to steer far away from the topic...
The IRST isn't going to add much it's a small ball, which is also obscured from the ground radar systems for the most part, and frontal RCS from another plane would literally be identical..
Also I have no idea where you've got that from that Su57 doesn't have a modern radar. It has the most modern one in the Russian arsenal, and yes, it is the best AESA radar in it's class.
It's RCS is not smaller than the Su57 lol it doesn't even make sense. To even claim such a thing one has to be detached from the reality lol.
Yes, it carries those missiles externally (which adds to the RCS) and Su57 carries them internally, much better missiles too.
There are not just R37 rockets there are other variants too (that hit up to 300 km), however they were modifying the R37 rocket in particular to my knowledge for the internal use also. And I would assume they already have that variant in service too. So it would be no problem for the Su57 defeating it's adversary at all.
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@verdebusterAP That's precisely what I've said. The "multirole capability" is an inherent property of every fighter craft now, and it started from the 4rth gen and solidified with the 5th gen. However it didn't change the inherent properties of the aircraft frames designs. You can still design a multirole Bomber (which is what the F35 is), and a miltirole air dominance craft, as those are 2 completely different airframes in design philosophy.
A "multirole" essentially just means being capable of launching any type missile/rockets/bombs, plus an advanced radar. That's it.
I think it's the opposite the F35 wishes it could fire Kh 47 kinzhal missiles (the best hypersonic missile in the world) like Tu22M3 and Tu160 can. Whilst ofcourse it has some 5th gen capabilities, I'm not disputing that, like better radars and better stealth etc, as well as being connected to the "mil internet" and neither of those 2 aircrafts have that, but everything else is better for them though.
With regards to the Tu22M3 and Tu160 they are of a different role! I just gave them as an example. They are strategical bombers!!! and STRATEGICAL bombers obviously are not fighter jets neither are they multirole. But if you were to design a multirole fighter from the Tu22M3 you could! That's my point!!!
They are "oversized carriers" precisely because they are strategical bombers!!! That's their roles. That's the same thing in the US!!! The Tu 160 is an improved version of the B1B Lancer ( different aircraft but of the similar design and of the same role). After which the US went for a B2, that's a new generation of types of airframes and logic crafts. The mid part in this will be the B21(scaled down B2). The B2 is the large craft, the B21 is the middle sized one (strategical bomber), and the F35 is the smallest one, but with the same logic of it being a bomber craft but just designed to be a "multirole" bomber. But it follows the same design logic of any other bomber craft (mentioned above).
With regards to what's gonna be happening in the future, no... They are clearly designing an NGAD and are getting away from the F35 bomber mentality design... They are designing an air dominance interceptor like craft (which is in the name NGAD), with high speed and high maneuverability. So that concept of air dominance is clearly aint going away( it was challenged ONLY because of the push on the F35 LOL)!!! The only thing that stays is the F35 "multirole" bomber, which obviously will stay as a good 5th gen bomber (nobody else in the world has such a good 5th gen fighter (close range) bomber), but it's going to remain a 5th gen bomber as it was it's designed role in the first place, and can never become an air dominance/superiority craft, as those are only 3 planes currently F22, J20(MiG 144) and the Su57. The only three 5th gen fighter air dominance/ superiority crafts in the world.
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@williamgarry2635 1 the first statement doesn't make sense. Whats so different for shutting it down than the Su35 for example?
Point being, is that every single other m. Russian plane has been shot down already at least once. The only one that hasn't been shot down is the Su 57... which we have a video evidence of it flying over the combat zone. The only m. plane that hasn't been lost so far, that was used in an SMO.
Every other plane has been shot down. At the very least, it either proves that it's either much harder to shut it down - proving it's stealth capabilities ( counter to those "skeptics" that said that it's not stealthy or that it's not a 5th gen plane.🤦♂Where in reality it is the best 5th gen jet in the world, the Su57M. Nothing else even comes close), or that it's impossible to shot it down for them.
If they could shoot it down, they already would. I presume that it's not invincible, but it defo would have outplayed any of the so called w. missiles and planes, that's why they aren't using them in the first place. And not the other way around... First comes the realization that they can do it, only then they would proceed with the plan of deploying the planes and missiles... But if they see no reason in doing it, then they won't be beginning that plan at all...
India wanted a transfer of technologies, like thy did with T90, AK 200 series, Brahmos, their space program etc. from Russia. They wanted a transfer of technologies of the plane which no other country in the world can create and which they would never create themselves. Russia obviously didn't want that ( it ended that "transfer of technologies mentality" around 2010ish). Moreover it is in the interests of Russia to keep selling India 4th gen Sukhou Su30 series planes for now... Compare it to the F22 for example. Which was and still is under an embargo, and also has seen limited use in extremely classified conditions, aside from it shutting a balloon down😂. And to assume that Russia would just transfer the technology to the best plane in the world, which no other country is capable of creating, and would never be able to create ( would take decades to catch up to R. ,at the very least), would just be silly.
It is only now proposing a Su57E, which is the export version of the Su57. However they can't produce enough Su57's as it is, even for it's own VKS. As soon as the demand for the Su57 will be satisfied within Russia, after an SMO. Only then they would move to an external market. Also they could get higher margins $$$ with the Su75, it's like up to 50% potentially higher profit margins. Which by the looks of it seems like their strategy now going forward. And it's profitability stacks because of the interchangeable parts and technologies between the 2 planes (same engine). They might even push that out first instead of the Su57 externally.
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@hoghogwild to my understanding, yes. Dry thrust. As it had it's efficiency drastically improved at different altitudes (AL51 is a completely new engine from the ground up, compare to the AL31 (the final form of the Arkhip Lyulka engine, that he had dreamed of all his life to create), the AL41 (with 80% new parts compared to the AL31) was an intermittent step to the AL51, and the AL51 is the truly new engine, of the new gen, called "gen 5+" by the engineers). Not that many people know that the thrust changes (sometimes even drastically ) depending on an altitude. And the "Dry thrust" in those metrics is always displayed at an intended "cruise" altitude. Meaning there's alot of variation to it, which nobody even cares to mention. But supposedly it doesn't lose as much thrust ,compare to any other engine, at sea level.
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@Xenomorphine India wanted the transfer of technology of the BEST fighter jet in the world, and they almost got it. As it would have been the most crucial technological transfer in the world at this point... Ofcourse Russia didn't end up doing it. And India got nothing to say here, Russia didn't want to transfer the technology to the best fighter in the world which no one else in the world would be able to build ( let alone India).
Also it's being used in the modern conflict EVERY single day. It flies every single DAY, in and out of the combat zone, which is why it is the best. Nobody else can do that. And it hasn't malfunctioned once, having the perfect track record.
It hasn't been destroyed a single time since it entered service. The on an airbase was a fluke to being with (which was called out by me many times, pretty sure, almost under every single video of it claiming to be destroyed... which is again not true). That craft has been repaired already and is already flying and is back in service.
Also there are several videos of it flying in an combat zone for its missions, none of them are allowed on the platform for obvious reason. Because it makes it look good... LOL that's what is going on here. Because it is the best 5th jet fighter in the world, and the only way it is possible to combat it is with pure propaganda. LOL
RCS is a whole another topic which has been discussed a million times already. Its good enough for it to fulfill it's primary role of air dominance which proves it's capabilities every single day on the battlefield (unlike every other 5th gen fighter jet).
And it's already filled to the brim with it's export contracts, they just don't have the production capabilities at the moment and are thinking of scaling it up even further... mind you the Su57E is an outdated version of the Su57 and everyone still wants it, even in it's far less capable form... and India also wants it to be produced in India as well... I don't know what Russia will end up doing in the end, but you can clearly tell that everyone wants it, as there are many other contractors that are willing to purchase it, the only obstacle is it's production numbers, and Russia is now in the talks of scaling it up. Precisely of it's insane demand even in it's far less capable form, which proves that it's the best fighter in the world.
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@jonathanbowen3640 Everyone that is competent thinks that it's a 5th gen jet. Everyone who is not competent online .rolls and armchair generals, think they know better. As RCS is a made up number. There are different RCS values for different angles, different ranges and different radars and wavelengths, on top of that, no 1 can really test it out themselves, everyone relies that authority to some online forum. On top of that. All of the RCS values, that you were hearing online are completely made up!!! Like the F22 0,0001 supposed RCS was completely made up, and doesn't have any base in reality.
We have a physical proof that it's stealth is working that it now has been officially confirmed to fly inside the front lines 30 km into the enemy's territory. And it hasn't been shot down once. The only fighter plane in the Russian military that hasn't been shot down is the Su57. No matter what kind of stealth it has, it has been proven to be working better than the rest of the planes.
The Su57 is the next gen fighter plane. It just entered full series production. This year. It is the future of the Russian (and to some degree worlds) next gen fighter aviation... the best in the world.
It's not important how many there are, more important is how many is being produced. And it's 24 planes for the Su57M, 120 planes for F35A and 120 planes for J20A. Roughly 5 - 6 times more, at the moment. But considering that Russia has a much higher plane readiness numbers and that it's a much better plane overall. Those are comparable effectiveness numbers, or are not that much behind (certainly not 100 times) and remember that Ch. is an ally of Russia too...
Indians didn't give up on it. They wanted the transfer of technology, like with everything else. Like Russia did with space rockets, with T90, with AK's with Brahmos and etc. they wanted the transfer of technologies of the best plane in the world. Which nether them or anyone else for that matter in the world would be able to build. That would have been traitorous if Russians had done that and transferred one of the best and unique technologies in the world to Indians. So Russia didn't do it. (but it was considering it at some point). It would have undermined not just Russian interests but the whole worlds. It is much more beneficial for Russia to sell "older" yet just as good planes for now. The Su30 series and MiG planes. Than to transfer the best plane in the world to them, so that India would become a leader in fighter jet technology and it would stop relying on Russian fighter jet imports as much. Would have been the biggest mistake in it's export history IF Russia had done it. That's why it didn't do it. And not because of India.
Everyone wants that aircraft but Russia doesn't sell it. It only recently started sort of promoting it ( the export version is called Su57E), however it would start selling it after it had satisfied it's own demand within Russia first which would happen at the very least after an SMO, but most likely even later... For a simple reason, that Su75 is a much simpler plane, and they can get higher margins $$$ ( per plane) on it. So selling Su75 would bring them more money, than selling Su57, and hence why they would probably focus on that, and keep the Su57 for domestic use for the time being.
It's engines are upgraded already. And yes, Russian fighter aviation and strategical aviation industry is going to be the best in the world... Nothing can even come close.
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@Wised1000 Technically yes, same as the Hortons bomber. But it is a flying wing concept which is slightly different to the just a no tail fuselage and which has bulges instead of straight lines. But it doesn't have any other prerequisites for the 6th gen. But if you want you could count it as a bad 6th gen or just not a 6th gen at all... It's the same as that guy building a $200k Lamborghini replica in his garage for $2k. Is it a Lamborghini? Kinda but not really. You can call it a Lamborghini but it's not really it. Doesn't have all the bells and whistles of it, even though it looks like it.
That is by the way why they are calling the B21 concept a 6th gen craft. As B21 is a smaller version of a B2. Technically you can justify that, if you improve the radar, improve it's engines, EW etc etc etc you could justify calling it a 6th gen. So technically, an improved version of a B2 could be technically called a 6th gen... a 6th gen bomber to be precise. Which is again, technically not the same as a 6th gen fighter jet, but lines do get blurred going up in gens, where the crafts merge different jets and roles into a single jet... But we are not quite there to build one plane that fit's all... So the roles do exist and will exist for a few more gens, which would have different charateristics to the gens between different roles.
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@MiG-31893 again and again. Prototyping and pre series stage is different to the actual series craft that has entered service officially. So comparing the 2 types of crafts is not correct. It doesn't matter what caused it, it's still a crash. That's the point. And you can disguise any sort of technical problems with "pilot errors" if needs be. And we would never know.
The Su 57 flies constantly over the battlefield, and we have video proofs of it.
And thank you for finally mentioning that "loss" , as that "loss" turned out to not be a loss. And yes all of the propagandists were claiming that it as a loss lol, and there were no way for me to tell the truth, because they would just ban it lol. So I was watching it unfold in real time, and watching all of the propagandists spewing the same propaganda about it without the actual facts lol. None of the crafts were lost, one went for repairs and is now flying on an active duty.
But I knew you would mention it, 2 days ago lol. So I was waiting to respond to it for 2 days 😂. That my point still stands as it's got nothing to do with it's reliability, because it was not operated at that time, it was just standing in an airfield base and got battle scarred because of it, which is good because it proves that it was being deployed near the battlefield... Otherwise people would be claiming (like they were claiming before and claiming to this day) that it wasn't anywhere close to the battlefield lol... So without it getting scarred while standing there it wouldn't even get any publicity at all, because it's the perfect 5th gen. And so propagandists won't even mention it in a good light. They would only wait till something bad happens to mention it. So in a way it was a perfect publicity stunt to some degree and I'm glad that it happened since it wasn't destroyed ,but because they thought that it did, it got mentioned by every single tech propagandists that I know of.
And again the Su57 is constantly deployed on the battlefield on a daily basis, and hits his targets also daily. Though it's not his main role since it is trained controlling the S70 drone and cooperating it's forces on the battlefield through reconnaissance and control, on top of it fulfilling it's combat missions with missiles too. It is the most used 5th gen plane in the world. And it hasn't been shot down or crashed even once. Which proves that it's the best 5th gen in the world and nothing even comes close.
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@MiG-31893 I've stated it many times over already. So this time I would just like to focus on the engine as one example, since it's the absolutely an unachievable marvel that can't be created by any other country in the world. The Al51 engine (it's derivative). Has the highest thrust to weight ratio of any jet fighter engine, has 3D vectoring technology, optional stealth nozzle, the most reliable, the cheapest, the most efficient, with plasma ignition system, modern computer controls of different efficiency modes etc. an absolute unmatched marvel of engineering. That no one else in the world can match. The only thing that can potentially be better is either the Russian next or the NGAD engine, which I'm eagerly waiting on at this point. That is the only thing that can potentially surpass it is the 6th gen engine. But at the moment, nothing even comes close to, comparing it to the closest rival the F135 engine, it has slightly more max thrust (cruise/combat thrust is about the same) and there are more F135 engines, and also there's an option for a vertical take off variant VTOL... and that's the only 3 redeeming factors to it's closest rival... Everything else is better for the Al51, which is the engine of the Su57M. And is one of the factors why it is the best craft. I am absolutely fascinated with that engine, especially when you learn the history of it and how the school was developed... Not sure if that would be interesting to listen to, but I could absolutely write a book about it...
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@maleprincess62 it has a bomber fuselage. It was designed as a bomber. Then by the very definition of the 5th gen, it was moved into the multirole capability area. That's what defines all modern gen planes, starting from 4th gen and now solidified in the 5th gen. They are all multirole, and are capable of being a multirole fighter because it is defined by the generation that they are in - to be a multirole... It doesn't change the design concept of the plane - it is a bulky craft - designed to carry the most amount of ordinance compare to the rest of the crafts. It can carry more than the F22 despite it being smaller. So it loses in speed and maneuverability. And that's the definition of an air superiority/dominance fighters. They have a certain design philosophy -fuselage type in mind, which makes them extremely maneuverable. The F35 was not designed with that role. It was designed to fit everyones needs. And by the very definition, it had to be forced to be a bulky bomber by it's design, which it did. And hence why it's not an air dominance fighter... As was confirmed multiple times by the officials already (if it wasn't obvious to some before). The replacement for the F22 is coming in the future with an NGAD program, and it did not come with the F35, as that plane is supposed to be "bread and butter" of the airforce. Or the dough's crust without which it would be impossible to bake a pie (any pie). So it's designed to be a to be a staple vessel of the airforce, to just carry as much ordinance as possible, launch it and go back. That's it. And not designed to do anything else. The filling is gonna come in the place of an NGAD program. It goes something like this.
F22 answer Su57
F35 answer Su75
NGAD answer Su 67
SR 72 answer "MiG 41"
etc
Each craft has a completely different and unique role and is not designed to compete outside of it's role. Same with the F35, it's a different role craft compare to the F22, but because we didn't have many roles in the 5th gen to begin with, they wanted to combine and equate all of the roles together, which is not correct.
Thanks for understanding.
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@DaftDrunk24 classifying the exact numbers produced is nothing new man, it's been done for thousands of years, but in regards to the mil vehicles, The first tanks to begin with of Germany, had inflated numbers too, to make it seem like they had more tanks... That's literally a normal thing for any country to do, trying to hide the real numbers of crafts. So I don't see a point there.
The actual point is that they'd misclassify it by thinking that it was a fighter, but it was an interceptor. Who's fault is that??? It's them who classified it wrongly. That's the intelligence job to begin with, to classify their stuff correctly, and they didn't do it. They've missed their mark there. End of story. And then later trying to blame it on the Soviets... is like trying to present their fup, as it wasn't their fup and they didn't do a bad job lol, but the Soviets didn't tell them exactly what it was... Lol come on... It's an INTERCEPTOR, and it is the best interceptor in the world, especially at that time which had stopped the USAF flying of their "reconnaissance" crafts over the Soviet territory. And consequently changed the doctrine of the USAF to begin with, with going more into stealth after they'd learnt of how good the MiG25 is. They had to change the B1 concept and geared it more towards stealth instead of fast speeds and low bypass(terrain) doctrine. etc. PRECISELY because it was such a good interceptor. Because of one craft only. That's why it is the best interceptor in the world, because it forced the entire nation to change it's doctrine because of it... Only later, to sugarcoat it and say that "eww it's so bad" lol... which is an obvious cop out out of a huge blunder and fup by them. lol...
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@DaftDrunk24 I don't get it, what's that got to do with "bravado" at all? It's "strictly business" especially at this level of real politics. It was the perfect craft for the times that they were in (at that time of the doctrine). You can't blame them for making the best answer to the doctrine that they had. After they had made an answer to it, the US had obviously answered to it to, by changing the doctrine entirely to a different one...
The most successful fighter is not that though. The most successful fighter(of the 4th gen) is the Su27 series, i. e. Su 27/30/32/33/34/35/37, j 11/15/16. It's the same series craft fighter just in different flavors. Nothing comes even close to it.
Puffin it up is normal. It is expected by the state party to say that their crafts are the best, that's what they are funding to begin with, so of course they would be saying that it's good... Why is that surprising to anyone? Same thing that they do inside China for their J20, same thing that they do for Su57 inside Russia, same thing that they do for the F22 inside USA. That is absolutely normal, and shouldn't be surprising to anyone. It's us - the people who can view it from the third party's side and judge objectively by ourselves and we can tell which craft is better or worse objectively to us (and not to the state). Blaming other side that they are "puffing up their crafts" is in my opinion, absolute madness. As that is absolutely normal and that should be expected.
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@uku4171 Pretty much - yes. As nothing really had changed between them, Vickers got a gun and a more powerful engine, that's not really a generational improvement. It's similar to going from Su30 to Su 30SM to Su 30SM2 and so on. It's an improvement and refinement of gen. But not a new gen, because nothing radically new has been implemented. Also triple decker Fokker is a variation of a double decker generation, it's offshoot variation. Now Grumman F3 would be the next gen. The 2nd gen. You can clearly tell by it's design. An early adopter of the "second gen" . Same way as the F117 was an early adopter of the 5th gen - it was a rough diamond and it is a rough diamond. An early adopter gen always looks kinda wonky and not full up to the full specs and it's absolutely normal. Same with the Su 27 which was technically the 4th gen bit it only had partial fly by wire, to the point that Bogdan in his interview said that Su27 feels like piloting "an oak tree" compared to the modern planes ( because it wasn't as controllable as the next iteration). And the full 4th gen came with the Su 30s series of planes ( Su 30/ 32/ 33/ 34/ 35/ 37), Su 47 was again a wonky midstep gen, wanna be 5th gen but not really accomplishing it but moving in that direction anyway. The full 5th gen was only the Su57. etc. (also another example with the F15, as it was technically called a 4th gen, but it didn't have fly by wire controls, so it wasn't a 4th gen, but F15 EX got a fly by wire upgrade so it became a full 4th gen). So it's absolutely normal for midstep gens i. e. not the 1st gen and not the 2nd gen yet but somewhere in between as a midstep to the next gen looking wonky in it's design... But technically it is the next gen, just not a well built one.
Again, probably we can make 3 gens out of it, but definitely not 7 as someone had suggested before. No less than 2 gens but also not more than 3 gens.
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@verdebusterAP The word bomber implies that it's a bomber fuselage and it is. The only difference is that a modern bomber is pretty much a "fighter" jet aircraft because of all of the upgrades. Same thing with Su25 and Yak130. It's literally almost the same. Yes both are different planes but are of the same size and follow the same design pattern. Except one is an outdated frontal bomber, and the latter one is a redefined, short range fighter aircraft, that's it. The only difference is the guided missiles, instead of just unguided bombs (and improved avionics because of it), but both are applicable, as that was the standard definition of a bomber... But obviously munition, especially in the 5th gen got upgraded, so it flies further and more precise...
If Kinzhal is a nothing burger than why was the US and U so afraid of it LOL 😂🤡 .We have video evidence of it being devastating, literally flying in a glowing ball of plasma at mach 10 speeds ( nothing even comes close). Just it's kinetic force alone is enough to level any building... also I don't understand who told you that it's just Tu22 and Mig31. Russia is working to literally implement it on all of it's capable carries. Russia was here first, you guys just can't bare to admit it LOL 🤡
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@ Well it is outdated and that's not my opinion it's literally an opinion of the pilots that flew that plane that were interviewed or that shared an opinion. Unlike most people on the interwebs I'm actually interested in that sort of stuff so I actively seek out those kinds of inetrviews and instructory videos. As all of it's tech is from the 90s. And no matter how good the 90s were, I think you would agree, that it's a night and day difference with the modern tech. No matter how you slice it, until it gets updated, it is not dominating anything in it's class.
Also you should listen less to the propagandists since they are all busy lying to you... just around 95% of it is lies, and the reality of things is the exact opposite. Russia is not busy with anything, as a matter of fact it is just upgraded it's factory to the planned Su57 series production, so it entered a full series production. And that's just the first wave of the series production as there potentially could be the second one as well. Though I don't know whether they will get the second wave of updates or not because those orders to potentially make the second production facility are just forming now as we speak. And so the demand is also forming now... But at the moment they've officially entered a full series production with 20 - 24 crafts per year, and are sticking to it in an foreseeable future. Moreover, they are about 1 to 2 years ahead in their production schedule so far (just so you understand that there were no problems entering it's series production and that the scaling of it, if needs be, wouldn't be hard either). So within a few years time they would be sending off their first Su57E to their partners. If the demand will be too high then they might update their factory with the second line of production effectively doubling it. But so far it seems to just be the perfect number for it's production. For it to have a constant production for years to come with perfect demand.
Also saying that they can't be shot down off the skies is a bit silly. Because it hasn't been deployed in an active combat zone over the years... It is absolutely would get obliterated in the modern battlefield, one of the reasons is due to the luck of EW... Unlike with the Su57 which constantly flies in and out of the combat zone on a daily basis, the F22 would have been shoot down from the skies immediately if it did anything even remotely close to what the Su57 is doing constantly on a daily basis now. As it's "wunderwaffe" factor is now gone but some people think that it's good only because it's previous PR campaigns from the 90s and because it was the first 5th gen fighter. But as soon as it's actually gets deployed it's "wunderwaffe" factor would disappear immediately. As it is not a bad craft per se. But it is the worst one out of the 5th gen crafts (with the Su57 being the best by a long shot). And I've gone over the reasons many times over already as to why in 2 of the recent videos on this channel and in this thread, so not sure If there's any reason to keep repeating it over and over again.
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I think so too. However, saying that you are the worst out of only 3 planes in the world is a bit unfair. There are only three 5th gen fighter jet planes being produced 1) Su 57, 2) J20, 3) F35. However only 3 planes could be even fairly compared. And are domestically produced ( were produced) by a country, and have 2 engines. Those are 1) F22, 2) Su 57, J20A.
So saying that you are the worst out of 3 planes, is a bit unfair. Since any nation in the world right now would have LOVED to have the worst 5th gen plane, but they literally can't. ( i. e. Turkey is trying to do it with it's KAAN plane , but it doesn't have it's own engines, and at best would produce it in 2030s, same as India, Japan, European countries etc etc... they would love to have that "worst" 5th gen plane, but they can't.)
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@motorcyclestig8539
1) China is making a copy but not Russia. It will be a better s. bomber than the B2.
2) KF KAAN as well as others is a 4.5 gen and not a 5th gen, and it doesn't exist and we don't know if they will be able to build it at all. So discussing anything other than the Su57, J20 and the F22 (the only 3 comparable planes of the 5th gen of the same role) has no point.
3) The Su57M is a completely different design plane.
4) The SR71 is already retired and long gone.
5) Talking about the future designs has no point, because not all of them will be released in the end... And we don't know for sure which ones will, until we actually get them.
6) The B21 is a scaled down version of the B2, The only reason they are building it is because they only have 18 B2's left and they need more of them but the original ones are too expensive, so they'd to scale them down, and made them cheaper.
7) Everyone knows what the US has stored away. It's the 21st century. Not middle ages.
8) The stealth heli was a known program, nobody "knew about it" only because it was a couple of airframes built at all from a well known "unreleased" program. And there's nothing "secret" or "mindbreaking" about it, outside of it just having silent rotors. Again it's a known tech that has it's gimmicks (which is why it crashed in the first place)... Nothing that really actually matters outside of a few gimmicks. All of the other programs are known as well. The only thing that we don't know is at what stage they are being worked at. But there's nothing that we don't know or don't have an idea of, of what's coming in the future.
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@seanmalloy7249 Nope, AL51 dry/ cruise/ military thrust is ~ 120 kN and ~ 180 kN in afterburner, nothing even comes close in thrust to weight... Russian engineers are even calling it a "5+ gen" or the 5.5 gen engine. Don't forget it's also full 3D vectoring engine, with the highest fuel efficiency in it's class. Absolutely unmatched, nobody else in the world can even come close.
With regards to PAK DP, Yes, I know. It's just a placeholder name for now. My personal opinion is that it's gonna be named "MiG 45", but the name is gonna be given later in it's development cycle as it stands it's just a "PAK DP", but not that many people know about the PAK DP so it's easier to just say a placeholder name as "MiG 41" so everyone understands what I'm talking about. Because everybody online calls it's that.
PAK DP uses a completely different engine. With different characteristic. A variation of Soloviev engine, It has a different goal of flying at higher altitudes with the highest speeds, flying in close to space altitudes ( higher than MiG 25)... Different aircraft for different purposes, it is not a frontal fighter jet. It came out of an interceptor role and continues to be an interceptor but with special capabilities of controlling the outer space from the highest possible altitudes, and/or intercepting strategical missiles bombers. Completely different kind of engine for a completely different role. Compare to the AL51 which has a role of a frontal fighter - air dominance/superiority fighter engine. Different roles and therefore completely different engines.
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They are already making wrong decisions. With regards to "stopping Russia" he is literally reiterating the same narratives of the previous administration. i. e. "we've got to lower gas prices, and as soon as we do that Russia would kneel to us, and we would be able to do whatever we want with it". That is the EXACT same narrative of the previous 20 years of Dems administration. First of it's impossible to do, because Russia and it's allies are controlling the price (it's been proven already by all of the previous attempts of doing the same thing), second of all, it would hit the US economy MORE than it would hit the Russian economy (which is counter productive), and finally, it would do nothing to sway Russia off it's course. So he is reiterating the same narratives of the previous administration, meaning he has no idea of what he is actually doing, outside of the public outcry about the DEI, borders and cen, soring.
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