Comments by "Acid Joke" (@PWMoze) on "The Song Israel Doesn't Want You To Hear" video.
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Everyone seems very certain that Zionism is the root cause of the current catastrophe. Is it worth also mentioning the subject of Hamas?
Here are some undisputed facts, supported by a large range of international, objective sources.
Hamas fire missiles aimed at civilian targets, missiles which often land on their own side of the boundary, killing Gazans.
Hamas have failed build any civilian bomb shelters, preferring civilians to meet the missiles 'with their bare chests'.
Hamas refuse to allow civilians to use their complex of tunnels as bomb shelters.
Hamas have, on many occasions, refused to allow civilians to evacuate when warned of missile strikes on their homes.
Hamas have, on many occasions, appropriated food and drink provided by NGOs, refusing to allow it to go to civilians but giving it to their fighters instead.
Hamas fighters have used civilians as human shields and have used civilian buildings (such as schools, hospitals and civilian homes) for military purposes, making them targets for the IDF.
Hamas fighters do not distinguish themselves from civilians by the wearing of military uniforms.
Hamas committed atrocities against civilians on Oct 7th, filmed them and broadcast them on social media.
Hamas have stated that they would commit simililar acts repeatedly if they could.
Hamas have taken hostages and still refuse to release them even though this would probably shorten the conflict and civilian suffering.
Hamas leaders have prosecuted this conflict from the safety of Doha in Qatar while the civilian population of Gaza has suffered the repercussions.
Hamas have used international aid, intended for the relief of civilian suffering, to further their military objectives.
Anyone would think it was Hamas who are waging war against the civilian population of Gaza!
Is their objective of resisting and destroying 'Zionism' worth all the suffering? After all, 2 million Muslim Palestinians are currently living in safety within Israel's borders and some have even joined the IDF to defend their homes against Hamas and Hezbollah.
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@samirabenalia6473 Those that lived in the region in the past were indeed different ethnicities. The Greeks were not Arabs, nor were the Romans, the Persians, the Christian Crusaders, the Seljuk Turks, the British or the French. Even the ancient Egyptians were not ethnic arabs as they share very little DNA.
But we now know from studying DNA that a person's ethnicity is more like a spectrum than one simple set of characteristics so it is more than likely that the 'Arabs' of which you speak are partly Greek, Roman, Persian, East African and even Indian in their ancestry.
Unlike you I prefer to learn history from objective sources based upon scientific evidence, therefore I can be pretty sure there was no such person as Adam, no Noah who lived at a time when the whole world was flooded, no Abraham and even no Moses. When you talk of them you are not talking about history you are talking about religious mythology, there is no historical evidence for any of them.
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@samirabenalia6473 Thankyou for your reply. I have read parts of the Qu'ran, although I could never read it completely as I do not have the time or the inclination. However I have visited many Islamic countries, I have some very close friends who are muslims so I think I have a good knowledge of your religion, better than most English atheists at least.
Even if I were to read the Qu'ran and all the Hadiths from cover to cover I could never believe it's contents because it's teachings involve believing in too many things I think of as unproveable, improbable and downright impossible. For example, I do not accept that The Prophet split the Moon in half, nor do I accept that water flowed from his fingers any more than I think a winged horse took him up to Heaven to meet all the other prophets or that he flew from Mecca to the mosque in Jerusalem and then back, all in one night.
I do not want to disrespect your belief system but it seems strange that not only do you allow yourself to believe in devils and djinn, but you also believe that Satan sleeps in your nose each night. I wonder what other fairy tales you believe in.
By the way, I feel the same way about Christianity if it makes you feel any better. For example I don't believe a man came back from the dead after being crucified. Nor do I believe in a man walking on water, turning water into wine, casting out devils, making blind people see, making the lame walk, curing leprosy and raising the dead.
I would not trust an adult who sincerely accepted such things. Atheists require proof, the faithful are happy with nothing more than belief even when the subject of their belief is obviously nonsense.
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@samirabenalia6473 Thankyou for your reply Samira. I would like to respond to your comment, allow me to take one point at a time.
1. I did not for one moment suggest that all things have to be seen or touched to be believed or understood. That is not what 'science' means. Science can prove all sorts of processes, forces and energies by means other than seeing or touching them, for example we all agree that gravity exists: Sir Isaac Newton managed to describe it, predicts its affects and measure it using maths, without ever being able to see it or touch it.
2. The way a foetus grows in the womb is not the work of any entity other than the mother. it is a scientifically provable process of cell division, each cell being assigned a function by the DNA it contains. The reason why this seems miraculous is because it is a process that has developed over thousands of millions of years, becoming more complex through evolution. Try reading 'Climbing Mount Improbable' by Richard Dawkins.
3. Of course animals have perception (sensory awareness) and cognition (conscious understanding). An animal species without those qualities would become extinct very quickly. Of course there are lesser forms of life that may lack cognition but that is because they don't need it to exist and multiply. Try reading 'The Selfish Gene' by Richard Dawkins.
4. Modern communication devices (or any other aspect of modern life) did not come about because of miracles. They came about through incremental technological developments based upon some original (and often quite simple) scientific discoveries and understanding. The mobile phone did not spring into existence fully formed any more than homo sapiens did.
5. The fact that primitive people from the past would find modern technology miraculous does not mean it is miraculous. It just means technology has developed beyond their understanding. Rather like a modern person attributing a complex medical procedure's success to a divine intervention, when it's success is entirely due to a long process of medical developments, techniques and principles being taught, learned and added to by many generations of hardworking, brilliant doctors.
6. I too believe in death but I have no reason to believe that a living organism continues some kind of conscious life after their physical shell has ceased to function. I certainly don't believe that after a good man dies, God chooses to reward him with a 72 virgin wives and 80,000 servants, in fact, to me, that sounds terrible, more like a curse! Despite this, my heart is open and so is my mind, I just choose to reject superstition and primitive beliefs based upon ancient mythology.
7. I am not asking you to do anything for me, so don't worry, if it turns out you and all the other muslims are right (and all the billions of other people who have ever lived and I were wrong) I shall ask God why, if he wanted me to be a believer, did he in all his wisdom choose to make me an atheist.
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@guidovaughan3096 Thankyou for your response.
Of course many ancient cultures understood that gravity existed but Newton was the first to explain, describe and predict it using mathematical principles.
'Western' Science has always acknowledged the contribution to human development made by pre-existing ancient cultures, such as the ancient Chinese, Indians or Greeks; universities still teach Socratic method and the logic of Aristotle for example. But ancient 'ways of knowing' are not, and have never been, an equivalent to scientific method or scientific understanding.
As far as zero is concerned; the Babylonians and Mayans first used it (as a place holder) in the 7th century BC or before, but you are correct in as much as it was first used as an actual number in the 5th century by Indian mathematicians. That numerical system came to Europe via Persian and Arabian mathematicians.
By the way, just to reassure you, there is no such thing as 'Western' Science just as there is no Southern, Eastern or Northern Science, there is just Science. It may have been developed in the West at one time or another but scientific knowledge is not owned by 'the West' and is free to be studied, understood and applied by all humanity. My sadness is that people from certain cultures (see above) choose not to use it or are prevented from doing so because of a culture of superstition and ignorance.
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@samirabenalia6473 There was never a 'time of Adam'. I think, like many people in this thread, you need a history lesson based upon facts rather than legend, misinformation and mythology. Allow me to provide one.
The earliest historical records show that the area in question (which we shall call 'The Levant' so as to show no bias) was inhabited by the Canaanites. They were followed by the Egyptians and then, some time after 'the Bronze Age collapse', the Israelites. They were there for 414 years and established the Kingdom Of Judah. They were eventually replaced by the Babylonians, The Persians, The Greeks, interrupted briefly by the Hasmoneans or the Maccabee rebellion. This period was followed by a period of occupation by The Romans, then the Byzantine Empire, the Christians, the Sassanids and then the Muslim Caliphate under the Umayyad dynasty and later the Abassid dynasty. They were then followed by the Tulunids, The Falamids, The Seljuk Turks, The Christian Crusaders, The Ayyubids, The Khwarezmians, The Mamluks and The Ottomans who remained for 400 years.
After WW1 the British and French assumed control over the entire region, with the British eventually passing responsibility for the region to the newly created states of Israel and Jordan. Finally this led to Israeli control of the region.
Throughout all that time it was under Islamic control for 1,283 years, Judaism for 1,197 years, Christianity for 410 years.
The people who occupied it for the longest were the Romans for 683 years, the ancient tribe of Judahites for 414 years and the Ottoman Turkss for 401 years.
It has never been ruled over by the group we now call the Palestinians.
If you are able, therefore, to conclude that a certain ethnic, religious or cultural group has more right to the Levant than another, you are probably over-simplifying. The future peace will based upon compromise, tolerance and co-operation, not fanaticism and religious dogma. Learn from history and then you might not repeat it.
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@samirabenalia6473 There was never a 'time of Adam'. I think, like many people in this thread, you need a history lesson based upon facts rather than legend, misinformation and mythology. Allow me to provide one.
The earliest historical records show that the area in question (which we shall call 'The Levant' so as to show no bias) was inhabited by the Canaanites. They were followed by the Egyptians and then, some time after 'the Bronze Age collapse', the Israelites. They were there for 414 years and established the Kingdom Of Judah. They were eventually replaced by the Babylonians, The Persians, The Greeks, interrupted briefly by the Hasmoneans or the Maccabee rebellion. This period of occupancy was followed by The Romans, the Byzantine Empire, the Christians, the Sassanids and then the Muslim Caliphate under the Umayyad dynasty and then later the Abassid dynasty. They were then followed by the Tulunids, The Falamids, The Seljuk Turks, The Christian Crusaders, The Ayyubids, The Khwarezmians, The Mamluks and The Ottomans Turks who remained for 400 years.
After WW1 the British assumed control eventually passng responsibility for the region to the ewly formed states of Israel and the Jordan. This eventually led to Israeli control.
Throughout all that time the land was under Islamic control for 1,283 years, Judaism for 1,197 years, Christianity for 410 years.
The people who occupied it for the longest were the Romans for 683 years, the Judahites for 414 years and the Ottomans for 401 years.
It has never been ruled over by the group we now call the Palestinians.
If you are able, therefore, to conclude that a certain ethnic, religious or cultural group has more right to the Levant than another, you are probably over-simplifying. The future peace will based upon compromise, co-operation and tolerance not fanaticism and religious dogma.
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