Comments by "" (@NinjaKittyBonks) on "Vegas Store Owner Acted In Self Defense?" video.

Democrats argue taking a life to protect property is wrong. However, the criminal is willing to risk their life to take another's property. The criminal had the choice, but chose to take that risk anyway!
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@Richard_Potato …. Well, they are the ones who will be first to call out the one who was being victimized by criminals.
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@Richard_Potato …. But the employee IS the one who will pay the price of safety, NOT the store owner. If this guy was locked behind a cage or something, then coming out to attack would not be the same thing. . In this case, he had LITERALLY 2 seconds to take action. Had he only shoved or punched, let’s say and the guy ducked or was not otherwise incapacitated. Then, he strikes back while the other guy comes from behind in less than 3 seconds. He now has 2 guys on him and the guy in back smashes his head or pulls his own weapon…. he is now dead . So, in the span of LITERALLY 5 seconds, he goes from just hitting this guy to being dead or seriously wounded. It is INCREDIBLY easy to sit back from the comfort of our desk, with two weeks to consider 1000 options, zero risk and with full knowledge of everything that has happened since and say “woudla shoulda coulda”. . It sucks that this guy had to make that choice, but he had only 2 seconds to take ALL of the possible scenarios into account, his previous life experiences and act. We can say… “it was only $150 of stuff that wasn’t even his”, but it IS his life that could easily be taken, if the one guy ducks a punch and the other joins from behind. . The legalities will get worked out, but speaking strictly from a moral perspective…. I have no issue whatever with his actions. . EDIT: Let's say, he stood back and LET them take stuff. What if they smell fear and BOTH attack him suddenly from each side? He now has 2 guys on him and he is in REAL trouble. He tried to do the right thing and allowed them the freedom to get away with theft, but what if that proved not to be enough? What if the wanted to get greedy and go for the cash register?
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@TheSoonToBePurgedJackMeHoff55 … Yup. A criminal must be assumed is willing to take your life_ , so we cannot be reasonably expected that they will stop short or just beat you into a coma. . I get the legal concerns, but the criminals are the unknown equation here, so giving the the benefit of the doubt is a bad idea.
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@Goulash45 …. Read ALL of my comments to understand the flaw in your position. I will say it again…. only slowly. . THERE IS NO WAY FOR HIM TO KNOW WHAT THEY WOULD HAVE DONE…. NONE!!!! . You are assuming this guy was an “honest” criminal. These two are willing to jump over the counter into HIS space…. only a total moron would think they are guaranteed not to step up their game. If he complies, they may go for the register and…. “Lookie there…. a knife he can then use to threaten the clerk. . You WILL not move me on this, because I don’t trust criminals to be decent humans! . PS> Was there a 3rd guy outside, keeping an eye out? What if there was and he came running in when these two might have gone for the register? What if one of THESE guys had a knife? You are assuming a lot and that may get you killed one day, because you think a person willing to jump a counter and steal RIGHT in front of the clerk has "ethics"!
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@Richard_Potato …. I understand your point. . Again…. We are judging this TWO WEEKS LATER and having never been in the situation he found himself with zero warning. He walks out from the back room and has to process a multitude of scenarios, that you and I see from a camera behind it all. . I understand that the law will see this from a dry and unbiased point of view, but he now has adrenalyn (sp?) and watching 2 guys on either side of him with NO idea how they will respond, if one guy is only punched or grabbed. Those of us watching the video have none of the fears or considerations he MUST decide in that moment. . The law may screw him for some minutia of breakdown after having examined all of this data months later with a TON of info he could not possibly have known, much less the calm and reasonable time in which to process all those scenarios in real time on that night. . Yes…. The law will see this differently, but regardless of what happens legally, had he acted with less aggressive force, the ENTIRE scene would be completely different. Maybe that guy would have ran away and prompted the other to do the same thing and this story would be nothing more than a closing segment on the local news. . However, had he been less aggressive and they ganged up on him…. he could have easily been stuck in the head from behind and dead. Wanna take a guess of what you and I would be talking about right now? . We would be saying he should have used the knife on that guy and he would still be alive! . We don’t get such chances in life and this guy would have been just another victim who tried to give a break to a … “person who is just down on their luck through no fault of their own”
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@Goulash45 .. My moral compass is just fine, thank you. . You continue to say “small amount of merchandise”, as if they have a right to just walk in and take it. Let’s say he totally complies and sits there and lets them steal. How long can these two be expected to stop “shopping”? . Is it reasonable they will just grab, what $50 worth of stuff and then just leave? How long before they realize he is not going to resist and they keep “shopping”? Why not…? He is not going to resist, why not go for a bigger payday and hit that register? . Is he supposed to say..”oh, excuse me…. I will just allow you to step past me and get to the register”. Do you really think that is realistic? Do you think these two might feel like he needs to be taken out of the equation? . Suppose one makes a move for the register and this guy is pressed into a situation in which he is face to face and the guy behind clocks him with something? If he is not resisting, it is completely reasonable to assume they will get more aggressive. . Does the schoolyard bully just have his fill of harassing someone, or does he get emboldened by the weak prey and step up his abuse? On top of ALL this….. the entire situation happened in the matter of a single moment. One minute he is finishing his cup of coffee in the back room and the next he has two guys with ski masks jumping his counter. . Simply amazes me how you can sit back and judge this guy, when you have no GD idea what it it is like or if one or both of them will get the SAME fight response he had and attack with a weapon of his own. . What if this was your wife, husband or child and saw two guys jumping the counter? What would you do…. Oh, don’t tell me, let me guess. You would hop on the phone, call your lawyer and have all of the laws explained, so you would have the legally measured response. . Ya, see how that works out for your family member who very well could be needing emergency surgery or a coroner,
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@Goulash45 …. I have addressed every one of your questions, yet you continually evade mine. . I already know you think these guys would have just stolen maybe $100 worth of goods and left, but what if they did not stop there? You give them the benefit of the doubt they would have NEVER harmed him, but you conveniently avoid the unknown variables. . They did not anticipate him attacking, so is there some unwritten code that says THEY will never do the same? You are all fine and dandy expecting these guys to leave him alone, but you have not answered my question. What would he do if they DID go at him, because he is complying, so a “soft target”? . Tell me, dammit… what should he do if these guys got more bold?
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@Goulash45 …. OK… this SERIOUSLY changes the equation. I was not aware the guy was no longer behind the counter at the time the other guy was stabbed. Sean did not mention he was now on the customer floor when thiis went down. Sean had to censore rhe video, so I was completely inaware and had NO IDEA he was bailing out the store, when the clerk went after him. . I sure wish you would have mentioned this about 110 comments ago... lol, because we could have saved each other a lot of grief. So, you and I are on the same page now, so you have my apologies 😺 . 100% of my arguments were based on the belief BOTH guys were behind the counter the whole time. YES…. the knife attack WAS absolutely unwarranted at that point, as a body slam was warranted. . Again, my apologies for making an argument based on incorrect / insufficient data. . Peace, Jon
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@thestoneddog …. People are unpredictable. . I would bet you 100% of everything I own to say those two NEVeR counted on himap attacking…. yet he did! . Somebody, for the love of God tell me he had NO reason to think this may have gone horribly wrong, if the clerk is unpredictable, then why not the criminals? They have proven that they don’t care about his rights! . Even if he goes to jail for what he did, I will ALWAYS say he had a reasonable response, because criminals cannot be ftrusfed to be reasonable.
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@Goulash45 …. I have made exactly ZERO claims, as to the legality of what this guy did…. NONE! I have never said he is innocent of a crime, nor that he did not act with force outside the legal acceptable limit. I said that he is MORALLY justified and that is my considered opinion, because these guys were the ones to violate the the moral code of “thou shalt not steal”. . This guy has NO expectation to think they will not break other codes, so they found out the hard way that others are willing to go to extremes, when the situation calls for fight or flight. He had nowhere to run, because he was cornered on both sides. . He chose to fight and that guy paid dearly for it. . PS> Both of them were willing to jump over the counter and THAT IS A THREAT!!!!!!! So he should just wait until it gets out of hand? When they, in a moments notice... BOTH jump him to get at the cash register? I swear to God I am sick an tired of people who sit back from the comfort of their living room, dog sleeping on floor beside, cup of coffee in hand and relaxing on a Monday afternoon, looking at a guy who VERY WELL could have been facing at minimum of 2 attackers, because you CANNOT count on them NOT attacking you! . Go ahead and make an argument that he crossed a legal line... fine! Just don't sit her and attempt to convince others that he was NOT in danger, because he WAS!
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@Richard_Potato … Thank you 😺 I continually remind myself to keep an open mind, for when new information comes my way. It is pretty rare when I screw up this bad, but though sometimes I faulter, the only thing more impressive than my incredible brilliance, is my humble nature…. lol . Peace, Gabe 😺
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@221Prohunter …. BRILLIANT observation 👍 . Here is a thought experiment for those that are not just arguing for the legal issues, but who my have a moral issue that he was in the wrong for attacking. . Safe to say, that if he HAD complied and allowed them to steal, it is reasonable they would likely gone for the register. If he is not resisting, safe to say the will get more bold. So, they now steal several hundred from register and a bunch of electronics from behind the counter, because he is not resisting. . They get away and then what.....? They almost GUARANTEED will steal again, because..."that was easy" right? Next time, they get MORE bold and realize that if they intimidate the clerk, they can get that power rush and limit the likelyhood THEY will fight back... so they steal more this time. . NOW...what are the odds there will be ZERO victims of these two in the future? I would say a virtual guarantee! This was SO traumatic, they will not be criminals going forward, because they have learned their lessons at young teen years. They will NEVER become professional criminals, because THIS was all they could possibly handle. . We will never know, but this guy might have saved someone else's life... and could have been one of OUR family members!
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@Goulash45 …. Jon, ANSWER MY QUESTIONS! . You mave made some good points, but answer my questions!
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@Schlabbeflicker …. My position has nothing to do with whether or not this mans actions were legally justifiable. . My contention is that by virtue of both of thes guys having hopped over the counter and literally cornering him with no reasonable way to escape, he at that point, became a “prisoner”. . Had he made a move either way to escape, it is not reasonable to expect no physical confrontation to occur, therefore it is reasonable, that the other guy would have given assistance to the one being confronted. In such a case, his back would be to this person and be EXCEEDINGLY vulnerable to being hit in the head or otherwise seriously injured as a result. . Wa can speculate all day long about what “might”have occurred, but the fact remains, there was a threat to his person, by the mere fact these two were committing a crime and he was trapped inbetween. . We were not there. We do not have HIS frame of mind and the moments he was limited to decide what action to take. We CANNOT say, they were “just going to steal a couple hundred dollars worth of product”. Had this guy complied and just sat there, it is EXCEPTIONALLY likely they would have been emboldened and gone for the register. . At that point, they would HAVE to deal with him, because he was trapped at the register. There is NO way to reasonably expect that with all the adrenylin (sp) and testosterone flowing in that little area, it is impossible NOT to get into a brawl right there. . This guy saw that he was trapped and his best chance to avoid serious injury…..? catch one of them by surprise! If he just threw a punch and had not immediately incapacitated him, then he would fight back and within 2 seconds, the SECOND guy would come in from behind and he would be guaranteed to be cracked in the head with whatever he could find behind the counter. . He may be in serious legal trouble here, but I will ALWAYS support his actions!
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@Goulash45 …. Bullshit!!!!!!! . When he became trapped behind the counter inbetween two people who are both in HIS private space behind the counter….. THAT IS A THREAT. . You sit there from your fucking desk with ZERO relationship between what was happening at the time and argue….”they were just taking a few things and were not going to get violent” You don’t know that and in the span of 3 seconds, he could have had both of those guys attacking him and one coming from behind. . Stop saying there was no threat…. THERE WAS!
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@Goulash45 …. You fail to argue in good faith. You repeatedly claim there was no threat and I keep pointing out the multiple ways he was threatened., yet you just say…. “that was not going to happen”. How nice for you to know the future and have the back of two PoS criminals who were not doing anything, but a little 5 finger discount. . You STILL will not answer any of my questions pertaining to very realistic probable outcomes, had he just sat there cowering in the corner waiting for the criminals to get bored and leave.. . You only have one thing to say and refuse to recognize the reality of the situation this guy was in. I can see some validity to your position, but you will NOT for a moment consider any others. . Have a nice life, Jon
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@Goulash45 …. Had ALLelse been the same and there were only a SINGLE guy…. you and I would be in agreement. . However… there was TWO guys and that changes the equation. Had he stabbed a lone person, I would be in full agreement that it would be WAY over the top. In such a case, it would have been reasonable to punch or tackle the SINGLE guy and a knife would have been 100% unjustified. . The problem is the second guy. If he just sits there, why not go for the register? Why not just keep getting more bold... what is to stop them, when he is cowering in the corner? These are two guys in ski masks brazenly stealing from this guy and that IS threatening behavior. It is a threat to his pride, it is a threat to his job responsibility and indeed a physical threat when they are on each side of his position committing robbery! . Tell me, Jon…. what would YOU have done? I already know, you would sitand there like a beta and let the steal from your store. Now…. what if you stood there complying and then they decided to go for the register? Why shouldn ‘t they be expected to do that? You aren’t resisting…. you pose no threat, so they are now emboldened and you are inbetween them and the cash? . As soon as those two make a move for you, there is very slim chance to avoid serious injury. One from the front and the other coming at you from the back. This was not one on one in an open parking lot, this was TWO on one, with your back GUARANTEED to be toward one of them! You try to jump the counter, they grab your arm or leg and trip you up and fall on your face on the other side. They jump over, while you are trying to get up and kick you in the head! Your moment of shock and awe is long gone and now you are getting your head kicked in by two adrenalin charged robbers! . What do YOU do, when you waited for them to get bored and leave…. but decide to score some cash?
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@Ranid …. Absolutely. Now that I am aware the second guy was no longer behind the counter, the knife was clearly excessive. By that point, had they weapons, it makes no sense they wouldn’t equip them, so a body slam was the order of the day. . That guy now on the customer floor had by that time shown he was unwilling to fight, so he made like the Road Runner, at the moment clerk made a move to the other. The guy was just standing ther, seemingly too over his head and no clue what to do. . I see little doubt, this clerk will be facing charges for excessive force. It was pretty dumb to think such force was necessary at that point, but seems he did not want to take any chances and wanted to take him out. That guy is likely to get a serious payday, even though he is a PoS and deserves little better than he got. . Had the clerk made that move when the other guy was still behind the counter, he would have a stronger case for acquittal. Still not likely he would get one, based on societies pension for rewarding criminals, but the other guy no longer in a good position to fight the clerk, makes him pretty freaking screwed for using a knife.
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@maddoggibson1 … Not sure what you mean, but at the end of the day, none of us knows how we would act in this situation. We ALL hope that we would be measured in response, legally speaking anyway, but when you add life experience, adrenalyn, fear, anger and opportunity to “take your shot”, I cannot honestly say I would not do the same thing. . Not like this guy was spending the last few minutes considering what he was gonna say in court, he was looking to avoid getting hurt and no doubt there was some good old fasioned revenge going on there as well.
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@Kraang …. I detect sarcasm, but I am not sure what it is you are trying to say. . If one was wielding a knife to get that candy bar, yes…. deadly force may indeed be necessary. As for the other topic, I happen to be pro-life, so I believe there is a tiny human who has the right to live. So unless some very specific circumstances, no…. she does not have that right to take the life of that tiny human, as far as I am concerned.
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@maddoggibson1 ….. If you have not read my last handful of comments on this thread, I ask that you do, because I had a HUGE part of this story wrong. . I had initially thought BOTH guys were behind the counter at the same time and therefore saw him as surrounded and was 100% on board with clerks actions. Was only very late in this thread, I realized this was not the case and reversed my take completely. . With more reflection still, I am at least on the fence. One second the guy on his right leaned over and stole something and was at that point, the OTHER guy jumpred counter. In the fraction of a second, he was being “violated”, as his store was under direct assault, for lack of maybe a better word and on EACH side of his position. . .it was at that instant, he lunged for the guy and stabbed him. I will not argue that being stabbed was in any way not horrible, but this guy has a lot to think about in a very short period of time and we are sitting back several weeks later saying what WE would have done. We dont have is adrenalyn, his sense of 2 on 1 or feeling that at any second, the other guy may bet ballzy. . We see all of this from a detached perspective and had he ONLY punched or pushed, maybe the second guy or someone watching door outside gets involved. Had he not incapacitated that guy, could have been 2 on 1 and he is in big trouble.. . Is it fair he used a knife when we know now the robber did not have a weapon…? No. However, it was THEY who chose to violate this guy and his store. The F with playing fair, when they were counting on the 2 on 1 advantage to distract clerk. . We can see the guy run out of the store the moment clerk goes on attack, but the clerk is NOT processing this at all. He immediately went after the other guy and took him out of the equation. Was it harsh…? Yes, but we are seeing ALL of this from a MASSIVELY different perspective and am about 75% in the clerks corner on this. . As for crime in general, this is a societal thing. Whether gun or knife, the person who is committing the crime WILL create a reaction by his action and people are not predictable. That guy did not count on nearly dying, just as the clerk did not wake up thinking. “I think I will use a knife and stab a robber in the neck at work today". I just don't think it is "reasonable" for everyone to expect the clerk to be "reasonable" when dealing with unreasonable people who went in to his store with the explicit intent of stealing his property and while being distracted by the two of them. . These guys instigated this ENTIRE thing and I am not saying YOU say the following, but I am just not willing to completely condemn this clerk, because he had literally 2 seconds to act and when adrenalyn, fear and anger boil over, one is not really in a conscious state of mind any longer, one is reacting to eliminate a threat completely, not make legal or "reasoned" considerations as to what may happen, because he does not have the benefit of what WE know now. . Had he stood back or just complied, odds are they would have been emboldened and gone for the register. Maybe not, but he could not possibly know the future and I have very little issue with him making sure he did not play beta male and just hope for the best. . 😺
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@ryans1623 On part one of your question…. context is everything. . What if this person is inside your home with your wfe and kids present? In the BLINK of an eye, that person could change up tactics and suddenly has a knife at one of their necks, or one person makes a move that distracts and the other uses that distraction to smash you or one of your family over the head? . This can ALL go horrendously sideways in that much time, so we cannot simply Monday Morning quarterback this stuff. The INSTANT one guy reaches over to steal something from 3 feet away, the second guy immediatelly hops the counter and is in his private space. One moment they have his full attention, so he grabs a knife, then……. BAM, suddenly they have intentionally or otherwise used a 2 on 1 ploy to take advantage of their physical position AND that his attention is now separated by a 90 degree head swivel to determine their next moves. . This is UNQUESTIONABLY a threat! We can argue the degree of that threat, but we not only have the 100% safety, calm, cool and collected view from a stationary camera behind all this, but with FULL knowledge of everything that has YET to happen and several weeks later. In the LITERAL span of 1 second, those two dramatically escalated their tactics to manipulate his attention and steal from behind his counter. This is a threat to his person and YES his property. property they were willing to press his ability to address, based on two guys and situated on each side of his position. . This IS a threat on several levels and the clerk is not prossessing all of these actions in reall time, as he is dealing with adrenalyn, fear and a sudden coordinated “assault” on his personal space and yes…. his property. I make no distinction as to the value of property they are taking, because this is indescriminate stealing on their part and they have every incentive to take as much as they can get away with. . In that instant, he is not PROCESSING this guy dashing for the door. He “sees” it, but is simultaneous to the second guy jumping the counter, in a clear escallation of their 2 on 1 advantage. While we all like to consider the knife as major over reaction, his eyes are immediatelly on the guy who hopped the counter and we are able to see and process the other making a dash for the door. . Sure, we can EASILY say he was no longer a threat of any kind, but the clerk cannot see and digest that in the living moment of all this. We can see the guy just standing there, but in that flash, he simply sees a guy who is now on his side of the counter and his fight or flight instinct has instataneously maxed out and he makes his move. . We will see where the law takes all of this, but there is NOTHING that can go back in time, put ourselves in the clerks head and expect us to act with perfect degree of force or subdue the guy with perfect precision a take down move. We have the benefit of TONS of criteria that was still unfolding at the time, so this could have all gone horribly sideways, from his perspective. We MUST consider his use of force was deemed reasonable, based on what he knew, when he knew it and the nature of 2 on 1 guys in ski masks who have exactly ZERO concern for his right to property OR any fear or distress any of that may cause. . .They are there to steal and 100% reasonable to think they will continue to escallate their advantage as long as it suits their position.
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@harvey1954 ... To the cult.....? Absolutely NOT! If that store owner did ANYTHING considered a transgression against anyone considered "oppressed", he is to be considered evil to the core. If that person happens to be a white male...? Nothing short of death penalty will do, as far as they are concerned.
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