Comments by "Jesse Dylan" (@jessedylan6162) on "Xiaomanyc 小马在纽约"
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@ALivingFlame Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because:
Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.
Jewish belief is based on national revelation.
But first, some background: What exactly is the Messiah?
The word "Messiah" is an English rendering of the Hebrew word Mashiach, which means "anointed." It usually refers to a person initiated into God's service by being anointed with oil. (Exodus 29:7, 1-Kings 1:39, 2-Kings 9:3)
(1) Jesus Did Not Fulfill the Messianic Prophecies
What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? One of the central themes of biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. (Isaiah 2:1-4, 32:15-18, 60:15-18; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34)
Specifically, the Bible says he will:
Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world – on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah.
Because no one has ever fulfilled the Bible's description of this future King, Jews still await the coming of the Messiah. All past Messianic claimants, including Jesus of Nazareth, Bar Cochba and Shabbtai Tzvi have been rejected.
Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.
(2) Jesus Did Not Embody the Personal Qualifications of Messiah
A. Messiah as Prophet
The Messiah will become the greatest prophet in history, second only to Moses. (Targum – Isaiah 11:2; Maimonides – Teshuva 9:2)
Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry, a situation which has not existed since 300 BCE. During the time of Ezra, when the majority of Jews remained in Babylon, prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets – Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.
Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended, and thus could not be a prophet.
B. Descendant of David
Many prophetic passages speak of a descendant of King David who will rule Israel during the age of perfection. (Isaiah 11:1-9; Jeremiah 23:5-6, 30:7-10, 33:14-16; Ezekiel 34:11-31, 37:21-28; Hosea 3:4-5)
The Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (see Genesis 49:10, Isaiah 11:1, Jeremiah 23:5, 33:17; Ezekiel 34:23-24). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father – and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David. (1)
According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, (2) nor will he possess supernatural qualities.
C. Torah Observance
The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)
Throughout the Christian "New Testament," Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), "He does not observe Shabbat!"
(3) Mistranslated Verses "Referring" to Jesus
Biblical verses can only be understood by studying the original Hebrew text – which reveals many discrepancies in the Christian translation.
A. Virgin Birth
The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus' birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by gods.
B. Suffering Servant
Christianity claims that Isaiah chapter 53 refers to Jesus, as the "suffering servant."
In actuality, Isaiah 53 directly follows the theme of chapter 52, describing the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The prophecies are written in the singular form because the Jews ("Israel") are regarded as one unit. Throughout Jewish scripture, Israel is repeatedly called, in the singular, the "Servant of God" (see Isaiah 43:8). In fact, Isaiah states no less than 11 times in the chapters prior to 53 that the Servant of God is Israel.
When read correctly, Isaiah 53 clearly [and ironically] refers to the Jewish people being "bruised, crushed and as sheep brought to slaughter" at the hands of the nations of the world. These descriptions are used throughout Jewish scripture to graphically describe the suffering of the Jewish people (see Psalm 44).
Isaiah 53 concludes that when the Jewish people are redeemed, the nations will recognize and accept responsibility for the inordinate suffering and death of the Jews.
(4) Jewish Belief is Based Solely on National Revelation
Throughout history, thousands of religions have been started by individuals, attempting to convince people that he or she is God's true prophet. But personal revelation is an extremely weak basis for a religion because one can never know if it is indeed true. Since others did not hear God speak to this person, they have to take his word for it. Even if the individual claiming personal revelation performs miracles, they do not prove he is a genuine prophet. All the miracles show – assuming they are genuine – is that he has certain powers. It has nothing to do with his claim of prophecy.
Judaism, unique among all of the world's major religions, does not rely on "claims of miracles" as the basis for its religion. In fact, the Bible says that God sometimes grants the power of "miracles" to charlatans, in order to test Jewish loyalty to the Torah (Deut. 13:4).
Of the thousands of religions in human history, only Judaism bases its belief on national revelation – i.e. God speaking to the entire nation. If God is going to start a religion, it makes sense He'll tell everyone, not just one person.
Maimonides states (Foundations of Torah, ch. 8):
The Jews did not believe in Moses, our teacher, because of the miracles he performed. Whenever anyone's belief is based on seeing miracles, he has lingering doubts, because it is possible the miracles were performed through magic or sorcery. All of the miracles performed by Moses in the desert were because they were necessary, and not as proof of his prophecy.
What then was the basis of [Jewish] belief? The Revelation at Mount Sinai, which we saw with our own eyes and heard with our own ears, not dependent on the testimony of others... as it says, "Face to face, God spoke with you..." The Torah also states: "God did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us – who are all here alive today." (Deut. 5:3)
Judaism is not miracles. It is the personal eyewitness experience of every man, woman and child, standing at Mount Sinai 3,300 years ago.
Further reading: "Did God Speak at Mount Sinai?"
Waiting for the Messiah
The world is in desperate need of Messianic redemption. To the extent that we are aware of the problems of society, is the extent we will yearn for redemption. As the Talmud says, one of the first questions asked of a Jew on Judgment Day is: "Did you yearn for the arrival of the Messiah?"
How can we hasten the coming of the Messiah? The best way is to love all humanity generously, to keep the mitzvot of the Torah (as best we can), and to encourage others to do so as well.
Despite the gloom, the world does seem headed toward redemption. One apparent sign is that the Jewish people have returned to the Land of Israel and made it bloom again. Additionally, a major movement is afoot of young Jews returning to Torah tradition.
The Messiah can come any day, and it all depends on our actions. God is ready when we are. For as King David says: "Redemption will come today – if you hearken to His voice."
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@ALivingFlame he never , ever claimed to be a messiah, in the first place...plus, Paul, who never even met the guy, concocted stories making him one.....oy vey...how gullible can anyone be....really?? You know what, pal? Myself and my 5 friends, Paul, Matthew, Luke, John and Mark all witnessed a guy jump 60 stories from his apartment building and just walk away, unscathed. Really, we saw it with our own multiple eyes...SPREAD THE GOOD NEWS!!
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@ALivingFlame Please don't pray for me...i need not your prayers. My true faith has been 1,000%+ for me all my life and i know what my heart speaks to me is true. You quote John et al , everything from a Christological viewpoint which is not valid in Judaism. If the dead messiah were all that Christianity claims it to be, then the whole world would know and accept it as truth. But, it never was and isn't now. When the real Messiah comes, the world will embrace him...to date, that hasn't happened. The carpenter fails all criteria ever to be a Messiah. There is no point in discussing this any further. You have your beliefs, and i have mine. You'll never, never, ever, ever convince me otherwise. Let's part ways in the comfort of our faiths. Have a great one, amigo.
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@user-zo4iz2nv5u Criteria for Messiah
First of all, he must be Jewish - "...you may appoint a king over you, whom the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you." (Deuteronomy 17:15)
He must be a member of the tribe of Judah - "The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet..." (Genesis 49:10)
He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son - "And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever..." (2 Samuel 7:12 - 13)
He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel -"And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." (Isaiah 11:12)
He must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem - "...and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them.." (Ezekiel 37:26 - 27)
He will rule at a time of world-wide peace - "...they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." (Micah 4:3)
He will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe G-d's commandments - "My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes." (Ezekiel 37:24)
He will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d - "And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, says the L-rd" (Isaiah 66:23)
All of these criteria are best stated in the book of Ezekiel Chapter 37 verses 24-28:
And David my servant shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. they shall also follow My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Yaakov my servant, in which your fathers have dwelt and they shall dwell there, they and their children, and their children's children forever; and my servant David shall be their prince forever. Moreover, I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall be an everlasting covenant with them, which I will give them; and I will multiply them and I will set my sanctuary in the midst of them forevermore. And my tabernacle shall be with them: and I will be their G-d and they will be my people. Then the nations shall know that I am the L-rd who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary will be in the midst of them forevermore.
If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be "The Messiah." A careful analysis of these criteria shows us that to date, no one has fulfilled every condition.
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@user-zo4iz2nv5u None of the prophecies in the Jewish bible about the messiah who inherits the tribe of David applies to Jesus because Jesus had no biological father.
The only way a Jewish son can inherit a tribe in Judaism today and 2000 years ago in the time of Jesus and 3300 years ago in the time of Moses is through your biological father.
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Jesus is Jewish because his mother is Jewish however Jesus inherits no tribe because Jesus has no biological father which is the only way tribe is inherited by a Jewish son.
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A Jewish son cannot choose a tribe and a Jewish son cannot change their tribe.
A Jewish woman who marries a non Jew will produce a Jewish son who inherits no tribe.
A Jewish woman who has a virgin birth will produce a Jewish son who inherits no tribe.
A Jewish woman who has a virgin birth and a non biological Jewish father will produce a Jewish son who inherits no tribe.
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It is because Jesus inherits no tribe that Jews today know that the claim that Jews 2000 years ago said Jesus was from the house of David was written by people who did not know that a son without a biological father inherits no tribe in Judaism.
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Today most Christians do not know that a Jewish son from a virgin birth meaning without a biological father inherits no tribe in Judaism.
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All prophecies about the messiah from David mentioned in the Jewish bible do not apply to anyone who did not have a biological father because they inherit no tribe in Judaism.
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All prophecies about the messiah from David mentioned in the Jewish bible do not apply to anyone who did not descend from a biological father through the messiah king David and through the messiah king Solomon because it is a promise which God said God will not change.
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Deuteronomy 13:7 If your brethren (who is), the son of your mother (meaning a Jew because it is through the mother that the religion of Judaism is passed on), …”
Note 1. The religion of Judaism is passed from the mother to her biological children.
Note 2. The religion of Judaism is not passed on from the male to his biological children.
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Numbers 1:18 And they assembled all the congregation together on the first day of the second month, and they declared their pedigrees after their families (to trace their genealogy to a tribe), by their fathers' houses, according to the number of names, each one from twenty years old and upward.
Note 1. Jesus came from a virgin birth meaning Jesus had no biological father meaning Jesus was born as a Jew without tribal inheritance because he had no biological father meaning Jesus has no biological connection to King David.
Note 2. In Judaism a tribe is inherited only through the biological father and not through a mother like Mary or through a non-biological adopted father like Joseph.
Note 3. In Judaism a tribe cannot be chosen but is inherited through the biological father.
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Psalm 132:11 The Lord (God) has sworn to David in truth, from which He (God) will never turn back (meaning God will never change His mind in the matter of the following decree), "Of the fruit of your body (meaning from the biological descendants of King David) I (God) shall seat on your (King David’s) throne.
Note 1. The promise of God which will never be cancelled is that from the messiah (anointed) King David Dawud will descend a king on the throne of David biologically from “the fruit of your body.”
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1 Kings 9:5 then I will establish your (King Solomon’s) throne over Israel for ever; as I promised to David your father, saying: There shall not fail to be a successor (who is a biological descendant of messiah King David through messiah King Solomon) on the throne of Israel.
Note 1. Forever means that there will always be biological descendants of messiah King David through messiah King Solomon who can be the messiah who is promised in Tanakh.
Note 2. The seed of David will descend biologically through Solomon forever meaning the messiah described in Tanakh must have a biological father because inheritance of the House of David is through your biological father.
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2 Samuel 7:12 When your (David Dawud) days are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I (God) will set up your seed after you, that shall proceed out of your body, and I will establish his kingdom.
Note 1. The biological seed God set up after messiah David is messiah Solomon meaning the throne of David is through the children who descend from messiah David and the seed where God said “I (God) will set up your seed after you” which is messiah Solomon because Solomon is the seed after David who God set up as the seed after David on the throne of David as promised in 2 Samuel 7:12-.2 Samuel 7:13.
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2 Samuel 7:13 He (Solomon Sulaiman) shall build a house (the First Temple) for My name, and I will establish the throne of his (Solomon’s Sulaiman’s) kingdom for ever.
Note 1. The promise that will never be cancelled in Psalm 132:11-132:12 given to the biological descendants of messiah (anointed) King David Dawud that is passed to his seed that God set up in 2 Samuel 7:12 is forever in 2 Samuel 7:13 meaning biological descendants to the throne of messiah David Dawud through messiah Solomon Sulaiman which God set up is a promise that will be honoured by God forever meaning God will never change this promise.
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2 Samuel 7:14 I (God) will be to him (the messiah anointed King Solomon Sulaiman) for a father, and he (the messiah anointed King Solomon Sulaiman) shall be to Me (God) for a son; if he (the messiah anointed King Solomon Sulaiman) commit wrong doing, I (God) will punish him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men;
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Note 1. The messiah anointed King Solomon Sulaiman is the son of God means the servant of God.
Note 2. God will be his father and the messiah anointed King Solomon Sulaiman will be His son meaning God's servant.
Note 3. If the messiah does wrong then God will punish him like a father punishes his son.
Note 4. The messiah anointed King David Dawud is the son of God means the servant of God.
Note 5. God will be his father and the messiah anointed King David Dawud will be His son meaning God's servant.
Note 6. If the messiah does wrong then God will punish him like a father punishes his son.
Note 7. Every messiah is the son of God meaning the servant of God.
Note 8. God will be his father and the messiah will be His son meaning God's servant.
Note 9. If the messiah does wrong then God will punish him like a father punishes his son.
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