Comments by "Paul Aiello" (@paul1979uk2000) on "Iceland Relationship with the European Union: How Iceland Almost Joined the EU - TLDR News" video.

@deasttttt I've been using this argument in the UK but it's like talking to a brick wall, The EU commission is a bit like the civil service in the UK, not elected but can suggest laws, just like the EU, the laws have to go through parliament, so basically, the commission can't just come up with any crazy laws as it would get shot down in the parliament, so they come up with reasonable laws that they feel can get enough agreements, basically, democracy in work, in this case, over many countries. On Germany being big, if I recall, the smaller countries actually have more voting rights than their population warrants, if everything was done equal, all the bigger members would have more votes in the European Parliament but bigger members are always going to have more say and so they should as they have a bigger population, but it's not really an issue, it only takes two big of medium size countries to block what Germany wants. Smaller countries tend to work closer together to protect their interest, so they have more clout than they would on their own and we saw that just recently with the frugal four
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@dvklaveren I think the real mistake the EU did was in 2004 with letting in 10 countries in one go, they should have let them in one at a time when they are more ready to join but I can understand why the EU did it, it was a grand idea to heal wounds from the past from west to east and the division. In any case, it doesn't look like the EU is going to bring in any big countries for a while, all the ones that are close to joining are small and that's less of an issue if they stick to that until we sort out the internal problems in the EU and develop many of the eastern EU members. The thing is, the EU will have to keep expending to stay relevant on the world stage, especially now the UK is out of the EU and with the US and China going at each other, the EU is going to have to keep getting bigger to keep up and unfortunately, time is quite short on that one so I don't think Europeans can afford to put things on hold, in fact we really need to start pushing more integration. There is a silver lining in all this, the UK was the problem state in the EU, they blocked too much and didn't want any integration at all, that is less of an issue with other EU members so more progress could happen now the UK is out.
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@dvklaveren The truth is, European social norms could be at risk without the EU because others will likely want to water them down as the US is trying with the UK, EU countries have very high standards in a lot of areas, to protect that, we need a strong EU because none of the countries on their own can do that as they are too small, the UK likes to think they can do it but they are likely going to find out the hard way that they can't either buy the likes of the US watering down many of the laws in the UK or the UK becoming tied to a lot of EU rules without any say in them. As for Iceland, Norway and even Switzerland, I think it's only a matter of time before they join but the EU doesn't really have to do anything on that, let them join when they are good and ready because the EU has a list as long as our arms of countries that want to join already. In the case of Norway, oil is likely the main thing keeping them out because it helps to push their GDP per capita over EU norms but that won't last forever and sooner or later they will become like any other EU country or even lower, that's when pressure on them will grow for them to join the EU, as for Iceland, fishing is their main issue but again, as tech advances and we find ways of making fish without fishing, all of a sudden, Iceland will likely want to join, basically, these two countries have a small population and big advantages for now but that is likely going to be taken away from them over the coming decades and with that, public mood on the EU will likely shift in those countries, as for Switzerland, I can't see them staying out of the EU long term as they are surrounded by EU countries, I think they will want to join as EU countries find better trade routes that by pass Switzerland.
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Nothing stopping the EU and it's members working on both issues, as for the voting process, I think it time, the veto will have to go with some other kind of system.
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Nspnspker From what I know, they still use the veto on important issues, I'll have to have a closer look into where it can be used.
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@PatrickButterly Problem is and this is more the case for smaller countries, big corporations that buy, bribe and bully governments to rewrites laws to work for them and not the people, that is a lot harder for them to do with the EU being as it's a lot bigger. I suspect without the EU, many European laws would get watered down, in fact we are already seeing pressure on the UK from the US to water many things down, the US would do the same to every other EU country if they could but thanks to the EU, they can't do anything.
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@danielvonliechtenstein8742 That's why the EU is focusing on smaller countries to the east, much easy to manage them then bigger ones, also, in time, Poland and the others that joined the EU will develop, and then they will be putting money into the pot so I don't think resources will be a problem in the long run.
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@ratatatuff I don't think they should be thrown out, not yet anyway but I do think stronger measures should go on those countries governments if they keep slipping on their commitment, we'll get a clearer picture on that over the next two governments in those countries, if they don't get back on track then either tough measures will be needed or they should be thrown out so Russia can play with them. As for Turkey, they've been wanting to join the EU for like 40 years now but are not doing enough reforms to enable that, if they did, they likely would already be in the EU but with the current government in power, they are slipping further away but that's fine as I doubt the EU wanted to bring in big countries any time soon.
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@PatrickButterly That's true and I would love more pan-European politics that the people take part in with the EU commission being merged into the EU President and being directly elected someday, I also think a lot more majority rules will have to come in with veto going away, especially as more members join. As for reducing rights, that for me is the very reason why I suspect the Conservative Party in the UK want to leave the EU, they like to say they want to improve rights and standards, but they can do that already in the EU, the EU sets a baseline standard and members can go higher than that if they want, what they can't do is go lower than that and the Conservative Party in the UK have shown countless times they want to water down many things which isn't good news for the British people because after this year, they can do just that. I think the truth is, as time goes on, it's going to become harder to leave the EU because it's going to integrate more and because of the changing world with the US and China, it's easy to say we want to leave like the UK keeps telling us but they don't answer how they will compete with these big players whiles holding high standards.
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@PatrickButterly Not really, in fact very unlikely considering the different views over all the EU countries, it would more likely be how Germany is now with a lot of parties and grand coalitions because of all the different views from different countries, in the longer run that might change but we are talking longer term future then. In any case, even with an elected president, I think election should happen more offern like every 2 years to keep them on their toes because a lot of times, governments only listen to the people when it's election time but once in power, they rarely listen so keeping elections around the corners should help to keep them on their toes, heck, why not go the full hog and elections every year, really keep them on their toes lol, the truth is, the EU is a new system of government, it makes sense to look at the mistakes of current governments and improve on that to not make the same mistakes. I agree about major blocks forming, in some ways we are already seeing that happen but most are a mess and nowhere near along the line of what the EU is doing and too many are just economic zone, the truth is, economic zones only really work with a political union to hold it together and to make sure it's fair for the small members in it or you end up with something like NAFTA where the US bullies the smaller players. In Africa, they have the African Union which is based on the EU but the problem is that they let any country in which doesn't give them enough incentive to change and reform, the EU is very careful on that and makes sure there is a lot of reforms countries have to do. So even thought some others are trying to form some kind of union, they are mostly doing it the wrong way and I don't see them as a threat to the EU, US or China, I also think the EU is in the best position of the 3 because the EU has been designed where it could keep expending with new members as much as it wants, there is nothing really stopping them expending outside of Europe and many countries would be interested in that, especially with how the US and China are going, but for now, the EU doesn't want to open up to others around the world but that can change, especially if they bring in a lot more of Eastern Europe.
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Taiwanlight Hungary are too small to actually matter, then staying in the EU or leaving wouldn't really change anything unlike the UK leaving which is far bigger. But I suspect the EU won't get tough on Hungary just yet because they are new to this democracy thing and are still finding their feet, the EU is likely wanting to see what happens over the next 2 or so elections before putting it's foot door, if this gets worse in Hungary, the EU and it's members will likely get a lot tougher on Hungary and maybe even kick them out. It's the numbers game anyway, if it's just one or two that goes like that out of like 13 that joined over the last 2 decades, the EU has nothing to worry about.
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@ratatatuff I agree but the EU is very diplomatic in these things, it has to be to hold such a union together of so many different countries, this isn't the US where they play hard ball before diplomacy but the EU and it's members will play hard ball with Hungary if they push their luck too far and truth be told, do they really want to risk being outside of the EU with all the games Russia keeps playing?
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@PatrickButterly That's true but we also have to look at where the US and China are going, they are going to be a lot bigger over the next 30 years, the EU can't afford to wait around, if we want to stay competitive, we'll have to grow a lot bigger, especially because of China, a lot of the integration in the EU isn't happening because we want it but because we need it to stay competitive, that is likely going to be more the case over the coming decades so yeah, I think the EU will need more integration and I also think we need to keep expending but it needs to be done the right way. As for campaigning, how long should that actually be? A month? Clearly it doesn't have to be as long as it is in the US and it's not like governments don't do their jobs even when campaigning, the problem with the system now is that each election is too long and in most cases, governments only listen when it's election time and rarely do at other times unless pushed by the people with a big protest movement, it's a pretty weak system of democracy when they only listen when they want something from us like our votes. I also think the two party system is a major flaw, especially in the US and UK, you end up with two parties that oppose each other on any policy regardless of if the policy makes sense or not, they'll still oppose it because of who is doing it, we see it all the time in the UK and US, it's not very good for democracy and seems very tribal. Another thing they could do is have it where everything with politics is open, no secrets, all tax revenue that comes in and goes out is out there for the public to see and so on, governments are supposed to be doing a public service but they are way too secretive which doesn't seem that very democratic when they are supposed to be doing the public bidding. We do live in a democracy but it's a pretty weak form of it and I've yet to see any country actually do it really well.
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@PatrickButterly That's true but sometimes we have to look at the bigger picture on what right for the long term even if it causes a bit of short term pain. As for taxes, I think if it was up to the people, they would always vote for lower taxes but that is a problem because if people keep voting for lower taxes, those same people will start to complain about public services being less effective, I don't think high taxes is a problem just as long as all tax money is made public so the public knows where it's all going, that would help to clean up the system and reduce a lot of waste and really, it should be public because it's out money. But anyway, you are hitting on the major flaw in western democracy in that most governments think on short term gains because they are only in power for a short while, there is also the competent of the voting public not really being educated enough when it comes to politics and making the right decisions. The other real problem is this, look at the US, Trump tries to claim credit for a lot of policies that Obama did when he was president and if the Democrats win the next election, the Republics will blame the Democrats for the mess the Republicans have made over the last 2 years and unfortunately, the public only remembers the current damage and puts the blame on the current government at the time even thought the mess was made by the past government which begs the question, does the Democrats really want to win the next election with all the hard times ahead? I know people always like to say the system of democracy that we have in the west is the best we've got but that's a cop out, the system can be a lot better to represent the interest of the people whiles engaging the people more in politics, a lot of people don't buy into voting and politics any more because they feel their voice is never heard and that is a problem which is likely part of the reason we keep getting into such a mess.
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Stephen Jenkins I kinda prefer that system compared to more direct democracy looking at the mess people in the UK and US are picking as leaders, the problem is with democracy is that it's only as good as the voting public and lets be honest, we do a poor job on that one.
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Stephen Jenkins Depends how you look at it, in the UK and US, you mostly only have two choice, in most European countries, you have many. As for lack of care for the system, you are talking about the public that votes or can't be bothered to vote that show a lack of care for things, democracy is only as good as the voting public having accurate information on what they are voting on and lets be honest, we both know most without even knowing what they are voting on and fall for sound bites from the governments and media, that's a big part of why the UK and US is such a mess at the moment, then you have the people that can't be bothered to vote, it's a weak democracy when the people don't make much of an effort, in fact it's actually worse than that, it can be dangerous when people fall for a lot of the lies from governments and the media. In any case, I don't really like any of the system we use.
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@PatrickButterly That's true but it should be our governments and the media to explain all these things in a clear easy to understand terms but all they do is mislead the people depending on what they want. As for things being more public, you don't have to have everyone to read it, you only need a few to expose it to create a storm.
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Stephen Jenkins We could use the same argument about civil servants, in the UK they have the power to purpose laws but they are not elected by the people, it isn't that different than the EU commission in that sense. At the end of the day, the EU commission can only purpose laws, it still needs to be passed by the European Parliament which is directly elected by the people.
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Stephen Jenkins I think you misunderstand how civil servants work and I'm not going to waste my time explaining it to you but I suggest you research it up. As for multiple elections, why not, we do live in a democracy, if the people want that then I don't see a problem with it, the results would likely be the same as the last unless something has changed. Beside, if we listen to Brexiteers, they intended to have more referendums until they got the result they wanted, even Nigel Farage said that, funny how he changes his tune once he got the result he wants lol.
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@henafoo For me, the EU is a new form of democracy that doesn't have to be the same as any others that we know off, it's a new system because it has to be because existing systems likely wouldn't work well over so many different countries but in truth, the power is still with the members in the EU, the EU is mostly just there to service the interest of all the EU members internally and externally where it can but ultimately, power is with the members of the EU. I think before the European Parliament can make it's own laws, I think we will need pan-European politics to happen so we are not voting nationally and voting more European, anyway, I think it's only a matter of time before that happens and with that, the EU commission could get merged into the EU president with it becoming directly elected by the people, all of this is some time off but pressure from the US and China could speed that up out of self-interest to protect European political, economic and social interest.
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