Comments by "Scott Charney" (@scottcharney1091) on "Forbes Breaking News"
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@MA-mh1vs Regarding your first paragraph, you've seen what's come out (and what was never hidden) since the arrest of Stewart Rhodes, right? Now, regarding your second- Speaking of hating democracy, this attack on the Capitol was an attempt to overturn the results of an election. It was part of a bevy of efforts (starting with things like Trump's phone call to the GA Secretary of State, asking for some votes to be "found") to prevent the democratic process from continuing. A peaceful transfer of power, following a completely fair election, is a definitive part of that process. Please tell me that you saw the recent news about Republicans in several states sending fraudulent lists of electors to the National Archives. By the way, these anti-democratic efforts continue to the present day, with attempts to take over election commissions, outrageous gerrymandering, voter suppression, etc.
Meanwhile, there is nobody with this "socialist mentality" you describe in a position of power in the US. I wish! You're projecting quite badly; the economy is damaged due to over 40 years of neoliberal capitalism. Yes, the legal system is worse than useless; it's malicious, classist, racist, etc., and it's getting worse. Your enemies aren't the ones promoting racism, they're fighting against it, so I don't know where you get that idea. Finally, rights are most definitely under attack, like voting rights, women's reproductive rights, workers' rights, and much more. What rights are you so worried about losing? If you're referring to gun rights, don't blame socialists, they/we have always known the importance of being armed. Karl Marx was very explicit on this point, as were his rivals elsewhere on the left, especially the anarchists.
You're seeing the world in mirror image. Speaking of "the socialist country of their choice," do you know about the American leftists who have been going to Rojava as part of the YPG International (and sometimes the International Freedom Battalions) to defend the revolution in battle against ISIS & the fascist Turkish regime? Some of those flights have indeed been one way, as some of these volunteers have died there.
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@Oldguy1900 I think that you misunderstand. According to the coroner/M.E., the attacks on Brian Sicknick played a role in triggering his stroke(s). Four officers who were in the fighting that day subsequently killed themselves, and it's not coincidental. The attack was indeed an insurrection, or to be more precise, it was the culmination of months of lawsuits, an attempt to have Georgia election officials "find" thousands of votes, a scheme to have the military seize voting machines, and finally an attempt to prevent certification of the election. The attackers came very close to doing that, and they came within a few yards and a few moments of capturing and lynching lawmakers & staff. All of this would have triggered a constitutional crisis.
Yes, they were armed. Several were caught with firearms, other guns were stashed nearby, don't forget the explosives, and they had many thousands of melee weapons. The injuries to police show just how brutal it was. You know what Trump said about the magnetometers, right? The Representatives and staff who were trapped in the gallery and couldn't flee were sending messages to their loved ones, and they removed their badges which would have identified them as lawmakers. Note that Ashli Babbitt and company were about to penetrate the last line of defense before reaching the gallery.
Pence fled with the rest of the Senate, but refused to leave the premises, since he feared that the SS wouldn't let him return to finish certification. Of course, before anyone praises him, note that he only "did the right thing" after getting on the phone with Dan Quayle (who say that coming?) and hearing from Quayle that there was no constitutional way to refuse to certify the election results.
The damage was actually pretty bad, and while it could have been much worse, it's really beside the point. I'm not sure what you mean by "Democrat police," but the violence directed at the Capitol Police began pretty quickly with the breaching of the outer fences, and it escalated from there. The Metro PD (Metropolitan Police, the city's main cops, not to be confused with the Metro Transit Police) showed up as reinforcements, preventing a massacre, but the point is that the violence was well underway.
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@myopinion378 I can't speak to any details about the investigation right now, but it's true that the largest category of defendants are charged with something a bit heavier than trespassing, but still nonviolent. Some of the heaviest charges are for conspiracy, among those who left evidence of organized plans to (among other things) stop the certification of the election. Anyway, it's indisputable that there was heavy fighting on the other sides of the building (this footage is abundant in the excellent documentary "Day of Rage," among other places, and this went on for some time. Also, some of the busiest entrances are elevated and visible on the approach; besides that, a normal tourist visit does not happen without guides, in huge groups, and carrying those flagpoles and other paraphernalia. There was no election theft ("steal" is not a noun) to stop, and Clyde is part of a very dangerous effort to deny/minimize/excuse a putsch (if not an outright coup attempt) that nearly caused a constitutional crisis. Even if he specified that he was allegedly referring to the stragglers at the end (I don't think that he has), why would he feel the need to say "Yeah, but those people at the end looked like tourists" in the first place?
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@bradchristy8429 The denialism here is appalling. Most of the police fought bravely (and the avalanche of video footage available is not a leftist hit piece; I'm not sure what piece you're referring to), while some collaborated with the attackers. If anything, I thought that there would be more collaborators. There is absolutely no evidence for "Antifa agitators" involved on that day.
As for the riots you mention, there's a big difference between civil unrest and a coup attempt. The amount of damage was spread all over the country across many months, and note that it was still much smaller than, say, 1967-1968, when the US had a much smaller population and much less stuff to destroy. Besides, I don't play "good protestor/bad protestor;" in a world where property is more valuable than people are, property destruction is a valid tactic. The Sons of Liberty disguised their identities & destroyed corporate property, and we call them heroes.
I would like to see a similar video about the riots as well, but that would be a little awkward for a major capitalist news entity, inasmuch as it ought to be clear that most of the death toll happened at the hands of the police, vigilantes (all those car attacks, and some shootings) and apolitical lumpen. There surely are videos about that sort of thing, but of course they don't have the same audience.
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@Finraen No, I don't endorse the sort of thing you mention in your first sentence. Far from it. However, they did much worse than what you describe. They were hunting for legislators and others; it's on very clear and obvious video footage from multiple sources- the attackers themselves, legislators & staff, security cameras, bodycams, etc. Plus, in the past couple of months we've seen more and more details emerge of the plans of the organized groups, and their communications with one another and some high-level contacts in the Trump administration. Some of that was obvious from the start, but it's unambiguous now.
Yes, it was a coup attempt (or more specifically, a self-coup/auto-coup, as we've seen in some countries). That's much worse than civil unrest; the rioting you refer to was nothing compared to, for example, 1967-1968, and it had no possibility of making the country ungovernable, or anything like that. No, there is absolutely no evidence for the conspiracy theories. None at all.
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@Finraen Yes, I do believe it. It's plausible on its own, and it's reinforced by the other damage suffered by the personnel of both departments, especially Capitol PD (they are in charge of Capitol Hill; they got backup from the Metropolitan Police, aka "Metro PD," who are city-wide. They're not to be confused with the transit police who are responsible for the transit system, called "the Metro"). Morale collapsed, many officers resigned, others cannot return to work due to trauma, and one famously turned in her weapon because she was afraid of what she would do with it.
This was much worse than anything that they had suffered in a long time. I've been looking at DC clashes going back decades, and I can't find anything comparable. The only thing "fishy" is the degree/extent of connection between the people on the ground and those in positions of power.
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@kenmacfarlane8744 No, it was a putsch, or an outright coup attempt, that came within a short distance and a short time of lynching lawmakers (among others), preventing certification of the election, and causing a constitutional crisis. The evidence is quite clear. There was plenty of comment about the civil unrest you mention. Most of the violence was the work of cops, vigilantes, and apolitical lumpen, along with some of the property destruction (although, in a world where property is valued more highly than people are, political vandalism is an acceptable tactic; see the Sons of Liberty).
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@randominc.2251 No weapons? Several were arrested with concealed guns, some of the Oath Keepers had rifles stashed in a nearby hotel room for a "Quick Reaction Force," we're finding out now that they were hoping for an armed second wave, one guy had lots of guns and explosives in his nearby truck, and of course the attackers had thousands of melee weapons, with which they inflicted some very serious injuries (lots of TBIs, loss of an eye, loss of digits, etc.). Quite a few of the attackers are charged with (or have pleaded guilty to) Assault With a Dangerous Weapon. As for being "let in," there are countless hours of video footage of the heavy fighting at various entrances, footage of the forced entrances to the building via broken windows, and so on. Most of the police fought bravely, but some collaborated with the attackers. If anything, I'm surprised that there weren't more collaborators.
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@SkithTickler If you're referring to J20 (Trump's inauguration), not all of those things happened, but yes, that is generally civil unrest. One of the defense attorneys memorably put it like this (I'm paraphrasing): "The prosecution is describing this as Godzilla destroying Tokyo. It was just some broken windows." Notice that while there were a few early guilty pleas, the state didn't get a single conviction from hundreds of J20 arrestees, despite around 18 months of work and a lot of money spent on the process (which, by the way, is very trying on the defendants, and violates their right to a speedy trial).
Nobody, not even those who took pleas, cooperated with the prosecution. Everybody showed solidarity while people were facing decades in prison for minor offenses.
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