Comments by "" (@SPIDERM0OSE) on "Top Rank Boxing"
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This is a fight you need to watch at least twice, once to appreciate what Hagler does & once to appreciate all that Duran is doing.
For the Spice Boys of Generation Snowflake who talk about fighters downloading data & playing 3d chess, this fight is an all time classic.
If you never seen Hagler before & just heard about his Hearns fight you will be left thinking, "this cant be the same guy". Thats because typically Hagler is a very patient, very skilled very tactical DEMOLITION EXPERT , he takes a fighter apart piece by piece. When the going gets tough he GOES TO WAR but unless you can put it on him like Mugabi & Hearns did, then he feeds you up with a big, hard to digest serving of SWEET SCIENCE until you can take no more.
In that respect, you could argue that this is his career defining performance, this is the best version of Hagler we seen, because of all he had to do, all he had to try, just to stay in control of the fight, which brings me back to Duran. Excellent performance by him too, maybe not quite the demonic evil genius Duran that we seen vs Polomino, Ray Leonard 1 & Davy Moore, & not quite the crafty veteran Duran we seen vs Barkley but still an excellent example of how great he was, because of who he was in there with, which brings me back to Hagler.
Time & again Ive said it, Hagler is the most complete boxer of the modern era.
He has it all, Lefty, Righty, Attack & Defense & he has everything in between too, great athlete, fearless courage, huge heart & will to win & he can put it all together in a single round at the World Championship level vs (at that time) a 3 division World Champ & P4P legend, DURAN
Hagler had to repeatedly dig deep into his big box of tricks & tactics in this one, trying to shake something loose on Duran whos hands of stone & crafty counter punching & excellent timing were keeping Hagler respectful for all 15 rounds.
This is a GREAT fight boys, if you love boxing & kno what yer looking at, its a 15 rdr between 2 all time greats, its up there with any great 15 rounder that went before them.
Hagler, watch his sublimely smooth stance switches while on the outside keeping Duran off balance mentally & physically but more importantly watch as he enters the danger-zone, hes going in attacking in one stance n exiting in another, looking to land something sneaky. Its BEAUTIFUL boxing.
Check out how at times he leads with his cross, check out his lead hooks to the body & to the head on his entries along with his famous jumping jab, Im sure a young Roy Jones Jr did.
Look at his combinations on the inside, how he doesn't over throw his big punches so as not to sacrifice his balance, look how he varies his attack & how he varies the power of his punches to set up his big punch.
Look at how sometimes he used the ring like a boxer/puncher looking to jab n move then how he applies the pressure like a Mexican Pressure Fighter. In some of these rounds you are looking at 4-6 different fighters when you are looking at Hagler, the man was near impossible to prepare for coz you never knew how he was gonna attack you or how he would be likely to defend & counter against you.
Its just a fact of life, whoever stepped into a ring vs Hagler was automatically second guessing themselves from the very first second of the opening round to the very last second of the final round. anyone who fought him, especially when he was Champion had to be firstly & foremost TOUGH which is why only Leonard & Duran managed to go the distance with him & nobody who fought him went on to better things, only Hearns, Duran & Leonard managed to have a career after fighting him, he absolutely DESTROYED everyone else, he took their fighting spirits, chewed em up n spat em out. He was a NIGHTMARE
Hagler had it all boys. If Wilfred Benitez was "The Bible of Boxing" during the same era then Hagler was "The Encyclopedia of Boxing"
RIP Marvin
#Marvelous
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@CC-ff7ft
Thats what Im saying, Hagler BROKE him.
I dont think you quite get what that means & as such I dont think you quite get just how damaging a fight with Hagler was for a career.
NOBODY except Duran, Leonard, Hearns & maybe Obel weren't absolutely broken by him, NOBODY went on to better things after fighting Hagler except maybe Leonard & Hearns who won the LHW titles from reigning champs.
You had to be an ALL TIME GREAT just to survive an encounter with him.
Hagler broke potentially great fighters & Mugabi is the prime example. That fight was do or die, more so than the Hearns fight, the Mugabi team specialised in getting a fighter at the right time, they had an upset win over Duran with Kirkland Lang & they famously dethroned Donald Curry in a huge upset when he was considered the p4p #1. They smelled blood in the water & were 100% convinced they had Haglers number. Only one man was making it to the final bell & Hagler had to dig deeper than he ever had to in his entire career to get it done, it was a fantastic performance by him on almost every level, Mugabi was a hell of an opponent that night & dont forget his amateur pedigree, he medaled at the Olympics & boxed in the final, he was a top TOP class prospect & could easily have became the face of boxing if he hada beat Hagler.
Big Obel won a world title after fighting him & was was a KO monster before fighting Hagler too, like Mugabi but unlike Mugabi his fighting spirit wasn't smashed to smithereens by Hagler.
Hamsho, Sibson & Antufermo were capable of holding the title n defending it, all 3 of them had their careers stopped in their tracks by Hagler, he took them to another level n what they seen about him & about themselves in those dark waters left them permanently changed as fighters.
Hagler was a MONSTER. He was unbreakable, He beat every opponent he met apart from Leonard.
Make no mistake about it, Hagler had no fear, not of Hearns, Mugabi, Leonard or anyone else, he was the real deal, tough as hell & as stubborn as a mule. All the 4 Kings were cut from that cloth, they feared no one & they hunted down the biggest fights, Leonard especially, they all made big fights without him but when he was on the scene the whole sport sizzled.
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Everything about his boxing was elite.
Ring IQ off the charts, heart, finishing instincts, stamina, speed, power, footwork, big game temperament.
No matter who, no matter when or where, Leonard made it his fight, he did it to Duran, Benitez, Hearns, Hagler.
In terms of talent Roy Jones is very close to him, but Roy didnt have Rays finishing instincts. I think you have to go back to Sugar Ray Robinson to find a fighter as complete as Leonard.
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@Svhopowa
Listen, Chavez was a great fighter. He fought the best of his era, some top TOP quality fighters like Whittaker, De La Hoya, Meldrick Taylor, , Rodger Mayweather, Hector Camacho.
Julio Cesar Chavez is an all time great, no doubt about it.
Him vs Duran at LW woulda been an all time great Rivalry.
But has there ever been a more ferocious, more demonic, more sadistic, craftier LW than Duran ?
No.
Fighter of the Decade for the 1970's.
And he only had Carlos Monzon, Jose Napoles, Muhamad Ali, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, George Foreman & Larry Holmes for competition for that title. 😏
Fighter of the decade for the 1980's was Leonard & Duran holds an epic world championship victory over him.
1980's Duran, Duran above 147 was a faded, jaded crafty veteran version of the ferocious, sadistic, famished demon he was in the 1970s.
Im a big fan of Chavez but hes not quite in Durans league.
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@Lee-bz2xn
He more than likely trained with music.
Skipping for sure helps but to me skipping gives coordination more than rhythm.
Shadow boxing, especially to music would give him that dancer look (that I thought you seen) that I see when he fights & its when hes flinching n feinting n bobbing before he attacks you can see his rhythm, hes reading your reactions/body language but with Hagler each flinch, feint or bob he made gave him 4 or 5 attacking options on you, where as a good/great boxer, as opposed to an all time great one like Hagler was, may give himself 3 options.
Hagler was just so versatile & very difficult to successfully attack tactically/consistently & he was equally offensively good. Ambidextrous in both attack & defence & he fought with a beautiful balance between the 2.
100% dedication to his craft, hours upon hours shadow boxing then sparring, applying & then fine tuning the concepts he had been thinking about during every quiet moment he had.
Hagler was no accident or no fluke, he was kinesthetic intelligence & tactics, more master craftsman than artist.
A Demolition expert.
#Marvelous
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@357twilson
Tell that to Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis, Mercer, Klitschko, Wilder, Joshua, Usyk, all of which medaled at the Olympics & all became HW Champ, 6 of them undisputed, 3 of them unified 2 or more belts.
Yea, amateurs dont mean a whole lot.
😏
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Ya gotta give Canelo his due.
Hes done his homework on all the greats, taken a little bit from this guy n mixed it with a little bit from that guy.
Hagler made very few mistakes but nor does Canelo. Nobody today can, did or does maul him n nobody from Haglers era would, except maybe Tommy Hearns who could possibly keep him backing up like GGG1 did but doing it from long range #HitmanStyle.
People ignore how well rounded, versatile & complete a boxer Hagler was, because when it was time to do or die nobody was tougher than him but before it got to that point in the fight Hagler was the epitome of systematic. Breaking a fighter down piece by piece, (Something Canelo does expertly too)
Hagler was every bit as effective bein an elusive boxer puncher as he was being a seek n destroy demolition expert.
He wouldn't maul Canelo for two reasons,
1: Canelo is genuinely great, just like Hagler is.
2: Hagler was no goon. He never rushed the finish (Hearns fight aside). He was a demolition expert, he made sure he had weakened the whole structure before he went in to bring it down.
Go look at Hagler v Duran.
Duran done enough with his trickery n tactics to keep Hagler respectful, Canelo would do the same.
Hagler may need to get up on his toes, use the ring n keep Canelo off balance to create those openings.
I think Hagler would beat Canelo but it would be a great fight, or series of fights.
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Rd 1: Porter
Im in agreement with all 3 judges
Rd 2: Porter
Anyone willing to try to explain what Crawford done in rd2 that all 3 judges gave it to him ?
Porter applied all the pressure & more than answered the 2 moments of quality that Crawford had & picked up all tha bits n pieces that were available.
Rd 3: Porter
Im in agreement with all 3 judges
Rd 4: Even rd.
Im tempted to give it to Porter, Crawford had a marginally higher quality first half of the rd, landed one or two bits n pieces shots on the counter but nothin devastating & Porter was scoring marginally too.
2nd half of the rd was all Porter. They musta scored it to Crawford for that failed check hook that landed on the back of Porters far shoulder.
I kno judges dont have the camera angles I have here but it was clear the punch landed behind his head & therefore wasnt a scoring punch.
Looks like the fix is in, all 3 judges although they have different viewing positions scored it for Crawford.
Rd 5: Porter
It was closer that it looked, Crawford started it well, scored nicely with his left cross. Porter came back into it winning the bits n pieces while applying the quality pressure, then had that big final minute but if yer a Crawford fan you could say he rescued it in the final 10 secs with his response.
Rd 6: Crawford
Im in agreement with all 3 judges. Lots of scruffy, scrappy effort from the scruffy, scrappy Dog of the Division, Porter, but Crawford landed enough quality to take it.
Rd 7: Even rd.
All 3 judges gave it to Crawford but I dont see what he done to convince them. HE landed one or 2 left cross's but Porter landed one or two lead hooks in the same part of the rd, then Porter picked up the bits n pieces on the inside & Crawford had a decent final 10 secs but not enough of anything to win the round on the strength of it, if I had to pick a winner Id give it to Porter.
Rd 8: Porter.
Crawford showed some nice quality in the opening minute but rested on his laurels for the following minute n paid for it in the final minute when Porter well n truly had him on the run. If porter was a better finisher he mighta got him outa there.
2/3 judges gave it to Crawford tho. WTF are they scoring the fight on ?
Rd 9: Crawford.
Im in agreement with all 3 judges, he landed the better quality n more importantly given the result, he was walking Porter onto that Quality.
Crawford showing his championship experience.
Rd 10:
Thats the way to do it, dont leave it to the judges.
He was walking him onto that uppercut & maybe Porters punch resistance was gone & his father was right to pull him out, hes at the end of a hard career & they all knew he was retiring after this fight.
Maybe hes a more hurtful puncher than he appears to be but I cant see anything that will give Spence any sleepless nights.
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@TomLyden-dt2ey
Yer living in dream land talking about fights you obviously never seen, at least not when they happened.
Duran NEVER, not in any of their 3 fights even came close to grinding Leonard down & only their first fight went 15 rds in which Duran won a VERY CLOSE decision, every round was razor close & every rd was action packed.
Not ONCE in his entire career did Hagler show the ability to perform at that level of intensity over 15 rds, & I cited his gas failure vs Vito at the championship level & now Im gonna cite his gas tank spluttering vs the big unbeaten Venezuelan "Obel" first time around, he won, he stopped him but he didnt look good doing it, those who kno, KNOW. Im not saying Hagler had suspect stamina, Im saying that Leonard PROVED, time & time again, that over 15 rounds there isnt a champion in any era who could out fight him, something Hagler failed to PROVE.
He waited vs Duran because he was in danger of getting EMBARRASSED. He prepared for one guy & another guy showed up. Duran was being tricky, timing him n countering him & Hagler tasted those hands of stone & knew he was in bother.
It was tactically & technically a very good fight by both men but it was the debut of CRAFTY VETERAN Duran, it wasn't the demonic, unholy terror who unified the LW Title then moved up n destroyed former champ Polomino then fought Leonard to a standstill. It wasn't even the Duran who lost a decision to Benitez. The Duran who got the decision over Leonard was the absolute best version of Duran that we ever seen & that guy maybe finishes Hagler over 15 rds. That guy puts Hearns on the back foot like Hagler did n maybe even gets him outa there in 3 like Hagler did, that guy was a DEMON, but that isnt the guy who Hagler went the distance with n had to work like hell to get there against, it was a slower more calculated less devastating version of Duran.
Over 15 rds, you have to start talking about Sugar Ray Robinson if yer gonna start speculating about who could maybe beat Leonard, & ONLY Sugar Ray Robinson.
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