Comments by "" (@ContinuousDelivery) on "Are You Chicago Or London When It Comes To TDD?" video.

  1. That was about something else, not London vs Chicago. The “fight” was DHH say TDD was bad for design. I think Martin Fowler & Kent Beck were too polite 😉😎
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  2. This is my full TDD course: https://courses.cd.training/courses/tdd-bdd-design-through-testing The free intro is here: https://courses.cd.training/courses/tdd-tutorial
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  3. Yes, it’s good isn’t it 😁😎
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  4. Thanks 😎
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  5. Then you are mocking at the wrong level of abstraction. You still need to test the real thing somehow too. Mocks are how you test the core bits of your code that represent what it really does, the integration points where I/O happens needs different kinds of tests, and better design to isolate one from the other.
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  6. I am afraid it is not that simple, the "the best programmers" in other places do use the London style. You criticism is true if your design is overly coupled, but there are ways to design where the London school works fine, and gives some advantages over Chicago. As I said, I am not wholly in favour of, or against, either one. I think that they are both tools in the tool box.
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  7. Unit tests. In TDD unit tests support the design, which is what the tests I describe here are all about. Acceptance tests are defined as determining the releasability of the change, this is a different problem, and so a different kind of test.
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  8. I think this is really about the quality of the abstraction in design, these sorts of interactions, that you mock, should, intentionally, be more stable points in the design that hide-information, so they are a bit less fragile. You may still need to change them sometimes, but it should be easy. The problem usually comes when you don't practice ideas like "Tell, Don't Ask" in the design, and you end up with a nasty chain of things asking for data. zip = customer.getAddress().getZip() --- Yuk! I talk about some of these ideas here: https://youtu.be/8GONv6jJsG0
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  9. I don't see integration tests as being a fundamental part of a good test strategy. They have a place, but are tactical. My preferred test strategy is TDD for fine-grained, detailed, verification of the code, and Acceptance Testing (BDD style), to verify that the system is releasable using production-like simulations. The acceptance testing is like a super-integration test as well as a lot more, so eliminates the need for integration testing. I also think that choosing to mock the edges of your system, applies a pressure on you to better abstract at those edges, and so you end up with a better design.
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  10. Thank you. Sabine is one of my favourite YouTubers!
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  11. I am pleased that you like them, thanks.
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