Comments by "Wandering Existence" (@WanderingExistence) on "ReasonTV"
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@BangMaster96 voluntary exchange? The employer-employee relationship is actually a very insidious dynamic. Employment is a rental contract. Like if you rented capital (say, a chainsaw from Home Depot), you pay rent for the "time preference" (basically the cost of time) for a piece of property. Capitalism is based on a principle of self ownership, which sounds empowering, until you realize that most people don't own capital goods other than themselves, and must rent out the authority over themselves as pieces of "human capital". This is a process of dehumanization where human beings are valued for their return on investment as capital goods. This is why, at least capitalism needs safety nets (or abolishment), or else the system won't value sick, elderly, and disabled people, as they can't provide competitive economic return for the investor class. In capitalism people rent themselves so they don't die, unfortunately they don't have the privilege of having enough capital goods to not have to rent themselves out to a wealthy authority.
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@BangMaster96 Personally, I've been interested in a grassroots movement called the Next System Project. They have devised a way to keep production local for key anchor institutions and contract service to cooperatives. They have helped multiple cities struggling with job loss due to factory closures build back their communities, in the US and UK. In addition, trade unions, collectives, public banks, credit unions, community land trusts, CSA's, and many other democratically controlled institutions can work together to create democratic networks outside the market to create an economy that doesn't reduce people, their governments, and the environment to a monetary value. I think this can be a viable strategy to give people the autonomy over their work. I believe economic democracy is the only way people who work for the economy will have the economy work for them, their families, and the planet too.
This way of revitalizing communities by building community wealth has helped many communities all over the globe, and it is utilized by the UK labor party and touted by Jeremy Corbyn. Preston, Lancashire became the most improved city in the UK because of community wealth building. The thing that draws my conviction to the movement is that I can see it now, helping people live happier, healthier, and wealthier lives.
I believe in a concept called subsidiarity, where problems are handled at the lowest level possible. I don't want government to run the economy, I just want government funded health insurance, That's insurance, not doctors. Most goods and services should be provided by non-government, socially-owned organizations, like co-ops and the long list of various organizations. There is a role for other government actions in society, but it's sure as not totalitarian or charged with centrally planning the economy.
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@BangMaster96 Woah, woah, woah... Calm down, bud. What's with the tirade? You said you didn't see employment as a rental before, but now because of my analogy you understand that it is just like rent, a payment for the time preference of property. You seem to be fine with that conclusion, and are basically just telling me to accept it and get over it. Okay, I own myself and if I want to rent my time out by the hour in a free market, I can.
You don't have to be so condescending. I understand capitalism very well, thank you. I was self employed for 8 years. I have a portfolio of stocks and I've studied investing heavily since my teens. I set up my Roth IRA when I turned 20. I can play the game of capitalism, don't talk down to me like I'm ignorant- I have money on the table.
Oh, and last, but not least;
You keep saying the "real world' like it's just a fact.... Doesn't the real world have wars and imperialism and dictatorships. I'm not saying any of those things are good, but I think you need to reassess what happens in the real world. You see, I know you're trying to use "real world" as a rhetorical device to delegitimize your opponents opinion as fantasy, literally called it "Utopia'. Unfortunately, I understand the "real world" that you're alluding to is not actually the real world.... As evidenced by any history book you want to pick up. So please don't try to feliciously shame me into thinking that the world only works your way. I'm not falling for it. Genghis Khan was a part of the real world, I don't think he was really up for respecting private property rights :/
I just spent one paragraph on the actual content of the discussion and two paragraphs (now 3) pointing out how you're talking down to me and insinuating that I live in a fantasyland. That's not very respectful. It's disappointing that I actually had to spend more effort addressing your debate tactics than actually debating the topic- hopefully we can change that in our next comment exchange.
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@BangMaster96 If I own myself, why can't I sell you use of my body for a certain amount of time? If you rent a car for 3mo and return it after just 2, there is nothing that says you have to pay for all 3mo- the contract might state that you pay a fee, but it might not (some loans charge a early payment fee because they lose out on interest they had budgeted for). Similar, you could be fired and be entitled to severance pay, or to buy out a contract or be entitled to nothing- it depends on the contract. If they want to "return the product", then they just fire me, lol.
What is interest on money but the rental price of money for a certain period of time? What is a rental but the interest earned off property of a certain period of time? If I own a Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT), it is required to payout 75% of rents as interest. It's the same concept, just applied in different contexts- so saying we already have word of it, is not legitimate. I'm not the first to point this out, honestly, don't be so rude with insinuating delusions of grandeur, it comes from Mutualists likr Benjamin Tucker, Josiah Warren, and Joseph Pierre Proudhon. Acting like I'm just making this up as I go and not that I'm well read is rather disrespectful.
What do you mean I haven't explained to you what system I want?? 😂🤣 Dude, I want people to own the property that work via social ownership (community land trusts, coops, collectives, credit unions, ect)... I told you that multiple times.
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