Comments by "Wandering Existence" (@WanderingExistence) on "Why Managers Exist (It's Not Why You Think)" video.

Wage labor is renting yourself via "self ownership". Employment is literally renting another human being as if they're property. The employer-employee relationship is a very insidious dynamic. Employment is a rental contract, like if you rented capital (say, a chainsaw from Home Depot), you pay rent for the "time preference" (basically the cost of time) for a piece of property. Capitalism is based on a principle of self ownership, which sounds empowering, until you realize that most people don't own capital goods other than themselves, and must rent out the authority over themselves as pieces of "human capital". Then they try to use tactics like management classification to deny people overtime. This is a process of dehumanization where human beings are valued for their return on investment as capital goods. This is why, at the very least, capitalism needs unions and safety nets (or abolishment), or else the system won't value people for their human value. Importantly we must also think about our sick, elderly, and disabled people, as they can't provide competitive economic return for the investor class to value. We must figure out a way to change this economic system if we wish to value each other.
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@self_improvement_d Free market capitalism in ancient Rome? Yeah, with slavery and empire to make it so fREEEEE. Smdh.
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@thelabs7128 We should value people for what they bring to society... But that isn't always encapsulated in a monetary profit. A sick person can bring happiness to their family, friends, and community without being able to work a job. One specific example that comes to mind is Rhonda. She is a disabled woman who has been featured on the channel Travis Doodles, who is a Good Samaritan that helps people out. She is a bundle of sweetness that humanity can benefit from, but she's disabled and can't make an employer a competitive economic return on investment. But just because capitalism doesn't want to value her doesn't mean humanity shouldn't. We need to realign the values of how we produce our society with humanity.
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Get dat money, like Engels
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@self_improvement_d The dehumanization comes from creating institutions that alienate other people. The little examples you just described have nothing to do with capitalistic employment specifically.
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@jbturtle The economic exploitation under capitalism is twofold, firstly they alienate decision making from the people who are doing the tasks. This division of decision making from material consequence is a prime factor in negative externalities associated with authority. But the primary economic extraction of value comes from renting people out and then pocketing the change. Profit sharing is a way that workers collectively share the full product of their labor. They can earn a wage and then collectively they decide whether to reinvest in certain aspects of production or to share the added value. In downturns less people are laid off and jobs are rearranged to make sure people have the ability to stay afloat and not be discarded and alienated by the institutions they depend on most. Personally I am a fan of cooperatives and their ability to subtly shift the mindset of people to think more in terms of community wealth building. Here is an example of how profit sharing has decreased exploitation by allowing people the full benefit of their product. "In the 11 years since then, Evergreen Cooperatives has added three more cooperatives to its ranks, growing from two companies with a total of 18 workers in 2010 to five companies with approximately 320 workers. Those workers are paid 20 to 25 percent higher than employees at the cooperative’s competitors. “Our average pay rate is close to $15,” says John McMicken, CEO of Evergreen Cooperative Initiative. “But when you take profit sharing into account, which could equate to $4 to $5 an hour, we’re hoping that we have a shot at breaking the $20 an hour ‘blended rate,’ if you will.” In 2019, the average compensation at Evergreen Cooperative Laundry was around $18 per hour." - Despite a Rocky Start, Cleveland Model for Worker Co-ops Stands Test of Time, by Brandon Duong
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"I already am eating from the trash can all the time. The name of this trash can is ideology. The material force of ideology makes me not see what I am effectively eating.“ — Slavoj Žižek
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@@MemeMemeson Good meme, Memeson. Admittedly, my main comment is just a rewording of Marxist alienation and commodity fetishism.
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 @FunctionalityOverFeelings You could read my reply, lol. I have to break up the grievance and the solution or else it's a giant wall of text that nobody's going to read.
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@alexd.6376 socialism is about reconciling the discrepancy between labor and capital. It is an acknowledgment that labor creates capital and that labor is the fundamental function of capital. Socialism is very much about the ownership of Labor, because that dictates the metaphysical legitimacy of property rights.
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@whutcat682 I'm sorry, I hear and understand your frustrations. I hope the best for your family.
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Interesting point. I like it, but I still stand by my perspective while respectfully including your perspective. Values do need a change before we change the economic system, I completely agree with you. My words were more pointing out the incentives that the economic system values, which is a different layer and adds to the complexity of the situation. I completely agree with your interpretation and I think our thoughts can be easily collaborated. Much solidarity ✌️
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@jbturtle Thank you for reading and responding to my post. I appreciate people who can make legitimate criticisms. I hear your skepticism to complexity and decision making quickness, I understand that this is one of the reasons why autocracy can be appealing due to its concisiveness, but this leads to many other problems and negative externalities found throughout capitalism. Democratic representation is needed for basic legitimacy of the economy, although not a perfect solution representatives should be elected and tasked with fulfilling the objectives of their constituents with proper channels of accountability. Size definitely has its limitations, but that's why people can be voted in to be tasked with certain objectives. As we see with modern political democratic representation it is not a foolproof plan and comes with many difficulties, but democratic legitimacy is necessary for political and economic self-determination and self-sovereignty. Not to mention one of the main difficulties with modern political democracy is that it's been perverted by capitalistic lobbying intentions. Political democracy in the United States has been twisted into a facaded oligarchy by the corporate elite, the solution to root out the problem is to create new institutions to replace the corporate elite so politics can better work for the people.
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@Cardd_inal13 Personally, I've been interested in two grassroots groups focused on economic democracy, called the Next System Project and the Democracy Collaborative. They have devised a way to keep production local and contract service to cooperatives, called the Preston Model. They have helped multiple cities struggling with job loss due to factory closures build back their communities, in the US and UK. In addition, trade unions, collectives, public banks, credit unions, community land trusts, CSA's, and many other democratically controlled institutions can work together to create democratic networks outside the market to create an economy that doesn't reduce people, their governments, and the environment to a monetary value. I think this can be a viable strategy to give people the autonomy over their work. I'm not for completely abolishing markets but I believe in creating institutions that utilize non-market mechanisms to decrease the influence of market commoditization of society. I believe economic democracy is the only way people who work for the economy will have the economy work for them, their families, and the planet too. This way of revitalizing communities by building community wealth has helped many communities all over the globe, and it is utilized by the UK labor party and touted by Jeremy Corbyn. Preston, Lancashire became the most improved city in the UK because of community wealth building. https://youtu.be/MObfh_VNqs4 Not to mention, much of the progress in labor rights has been due to union's collective power. The thing that draws my conviction to the movement is that I can see it now, helping empower people to live happier, healthier, and wealthier lives. There are many names for it like cooperativeism or a 'pluralistic commonwealth', but it basically boils down to democratic socialism.
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Second comment is the winning position on this channel, sorry :/
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@FunctionalityOverFeelings I don't quite agree, America's quite capitalist and I'm not sure how you square bankers wanting "Communism". I'm not sure I agree with your definitions. Not to mention the US dollar is backed by violence, That's why we spend over $830 billion on the military, that creates geopolitical conditions like the petrodollar and other Western friendly banana republics.
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@HaggisMuncher-69-420 Apparently you don't understand the history of capitalism do you? During English land enclosures peasants and serfs were forced off of communal and monastic properties and had to look for employment. Capitalism violently disrupts property systems and then creates the conditions in which employees have to look for work. Next you're going to tell me that Manifest Destiny and the genocidal extermination of native Americans for land was a completely voluntary situation that created the private property that was handed out in 160 acre parcels to pioneers with The 1862 Homestead Act. 🤦🏼🤦🏼 Capitalism has always been violent, and then people walk around saying it's voluntary because you can leave the job. Btw, I said they rent you, not that they own you.... That's a really big technical difference but apparently you don't understand details like, that let alone giant swaths of history.
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@TheGbelcher The one and only car company?? Wüt, m8? You do realize that Leninist centralism isn't the only type of socialism, right? 🤦🏼 You realize that there can be multiple cooperatives that have different perspectives on what cars to manufacture, right? You can voluntarily have your choice at a few different auto companies where you would have a choice in democratic representation and profit sharing. But hey, maybe you'd rather work at an auto company that makes billions in profit and then tells the workers "you don't need a raise" and then raises shareholder dividends. Maybe you like the feeling of a false choice... "I get the choice of five different companies, all of which treat me like dirt!" Wow, it really is easier for people to imagine the end of the world than to imagine the end of capitalism.
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@akastewart Start your own business or co-op.... With what capital? 64% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck because capitalism creates inequality. Do you not understand how capitalism creates the type of power and balances that disproportionately enrich elites through the power of private property? You do realize a lot of American private property came from Western expansion through the time period of Manifest Destiny, so it'd be really hilarious if you told a native American to "just start your own business, because capitalism is so freeing" after their tribe and family got murdered by a genocidal US military clearing land for private property parcels to be handed out during the mid 1800s. I mean, I guess the native Americans do have casinos but that's on small reservations that are islands of their old territory. The audacity to ask how capitalism is holding people back after it creates massive inequality and has literally genocidally pillaged peoples property and then claimed it as its own... And then capitalists act as if they've never stolen anything. Capitalism is theft.
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@wolfbones666 To be fair there is worker compensation... But did you know worker compensation was first introduced by socialists! But yes I agree, the years of wear and tear on the body are not thoroughly compensated by the pay.
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@TheGbelcher The reason why cooperatives are not more ubiquitous is not because they're not effective, but rather in which the value system of the property norms defines what "effective" is. Cooperatives are certainly effective at helping people gain autonomy over their own lives and profit from their own labor, but private property creates a system of laws that evaluates effectiveness based on the ability to create profit for absentee shareholders. When you say "effective" you're talking about being effective to enrich capital owners, I'm talking about being effective to take care of workers, society/ the unemployed/ disabled, and the planet. Your idea of effectiveness creates negative externalities that are literally killing the planet.... But you see no problem with that because that's not considered within the value system of private property. Who cares if the 1% rolls over, it's still a dominating class that alienates most the population for their own material gain at the expense of others. Capitalists love to use this argument that "you two can become the dominator" or "you can buy stocks", but that misses the point entirely. When 64% of the population is living paycheck to paycheck and your answer is "Well in a few decades someone will be richer than Elon Musk" is a really bad argument considering that does nothing to help the people who are living paycheck to paycheck. The fact that you think Elon Musk should be worth nearly a quarter trillion dollars at the expense of all the innovation that his workers have created is sad. In a cooperativist economy there would be other social safety nets to provide the ability for some companies to take large risks. The mistake of thinking that these cooperatives are atomistic, one of the key principles of cooperatives is that they cooperate with other cooperatives and create networks of institutions to help each other. But of course this capitalistic culture doesn't understand anything like that because how many business schools teach cooperative economics? Basically none. Saying that it's uneffective is disingenuous considering that there's a giant cultural bias that doesn't give a level playing field. capitalists in the United States have literally created coup d'etats from the banana Wars in the early 1900s to establishing authoritarian dictatorships like in Guatemala in 1954 to take control of the banana plantations, or revolving door politics that allow Dick Cheney to take $60 million exit package then turn around and start multiple illegitimate wars in the Middle East where Halliburton can go in set up oil fields and at times receiving billion dollar no-bid contracts. The illegitimate War after the Iraq invasion in 2003 literally killed a million civilians... 1,000,000 people. Don't act like there aren't gigantic externalities associated with the blood profits that shareholders receive. “Call it democracy, or call it democratic socialism, but there must be a better distribution of wealth within this country for all God’s children.” – MLK, Speech to the Negro American Labor Council, 1961. “We must recognize that we can’t solve our problem now until there is a radical redistribution of economic and political power… this means a revolution of values and other things. We must see now that the evils of racism, economic exploitation and militarism are all tied together… you can’t really get rid of one without getting rid of the others… the whole structure of American life must be changed. America is a hypocritical nation and [we] must put [our] own house in order.” - MLK, Report to SCLC Staff, May 1967. “The evils of capitalism are as real as the evils of militarism and evils of racism.” – MLK, Speech to SCLC Board, March 30, 1967.
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@jbturtle I personally owned $AAPL for 5yrs... I made 350% profit and I never worked a single day at Apple. Why do you think employees would just leave when they could be pocketing that 350% profit instead of absentee shareholders like me? Why wouldn't they want to participate in profit sharing in one of the the most profitable corporations on the planet? Instead of giving a $90 billion in share buybacks to absentee shareholders, you don't think the workers would want that $90 billion?? I mean, to be fair, it probably would be a bit less considering workers would have more of a say and they wouldn't be able to exploit Foxconn workers or China's slave labor, but still, you're telling me workers don't want to have the ability to decide who tells them what to do and to be able share in profits? I guess, I just don't see it. I like banking at a credit union because they're less likely to screw me over than a traditional bank, because I'm an owner member. Capitalism is a fantastic idea on paper but in real life it ends up just screwing over most of the population to enrich a select few... don't act like capitalism is better. Just because feudalism existed in reality doesn't mean that it's a good system, saying that your system exists doesn't mean that it's justified. "In the 11 years since then, Evergreen Cooperatives has added three more cooperatives to its ranks, growing from two companies with a total of 18 workers in 2010 to five companies with approximately 320 workers. Those workers are paid 20 to 25 percent higher than employees at the cooperative’s competitors. “Our average pay rate is close to $15,” says John McMicken, CEO of Evergreen Cooperative Initiative. “But when you take profit sharing into account, which could equate to $4 to $5 an hour, we’re hoping that we have a shot at breaking the $20 an hour ‘blended rate,’ if you will.” In 2019, the average compensation at Evergreen Cooperative Laundry was around $18 per hour." - Despite a Rocky Start, Cleveland Model for Worker Co-ops Stands Test of Time, by Brandon Duong
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@frgwyn3760 ??? People who have money can buy robots, they're called capitalists. Workers get displaced by automation and their wages go down because there's less demand, even though production goes up. This is one of the big reasons why 64% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, and 10% of the wealthiest Americans own 80% of the US stock market.
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@akastewart I meant to reply to your comment a few days ago. My answer is, sure, of course it can be asking for the highest bidder (Didn't they do that at slave auctions??🤢) It could also be seen as prostitution of one's body at an hourly rate. All are valid, I guess. It just depends on how you want to frame it. Worker cooperatives allowed democratic representation so that added value is split equitably among increased investment, workers profit, and the community. This allows workers not just to rent themselves out to a capitalist, but instead have self-determination in how the business is run and profits/ losses are shared. The concept of self-determination and community sovereignty is important for concepts of political democracy, and it's important for economic democracy as well. In fact economic democracy is the only proper buttress to facilitate real democratic politics. Currently politics is cultivated by and for the wealth.
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@self_improvement_d If you (a worker) build a factory under socialism other workers can just take it away? Didn't other workers help build the factory... Aren't you kind of denying the fact that you were a piece of the project and not the whole thing? Don't they have a democratic say too? That's one of the key problems with capitalism, is that many people work on a project but only a few people have the authority to conduct the project and that creates negative externalities. Renting houses is possible under some types of socialism, but It probably be within context of a community land trust or land value tax.... Because economic rent seeking for land value is gatekeeping exploitation and even Adam Smith knew that. "The rent of land, therefore, considered as the price paid for the use of the land, is naturally a monopoly price. It is not at all proportioned to what the landlord may have laid out upon the improvement of the land, or to what he can afford to take; but to what the farmer can afford to give." — Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, Book I, Chapter XI "Of the Rent of Land"
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@self_improvement_d Lol, construction workers don't own the factory under capitalism. A capitalist pays another capitalist company to build them a factory... The materials of the construction company are owned by the construction company investors, not workers 🤦🏼 when payment for construction is complete ownership is transferred to the capitalist who bought the factory, not built it. I really don't know what type of system you're talking about. Under capitalism you can buy stock in KB Homes ($KBH)... Workers don't get the 1.62% dividend quarterly the investors do. So I'm really not quite sure what you're talking about.
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@akastewart So you're just hand waving all the capitalist violence out of the way and ask "why aren't they starting more co-ops?".... Capitalism is not friendly to social ownership- Capitalism values profit socialism values worker freedom. When violently protecting (law enforcement) private property keeps incentivizing only the institutions that create profit to grow and dominate the economy. Worker cooperatives are going to seem small because they aren't fixated on unlimited growth, they're fixated on helping their members. You're literally comparing apples and oranges and wondering why one of them isn't citrusy like the other... It's like there's two different fruit that have two different biological processes that create different results. You do realize that the United States has caused coup d'etat in multiple democratically elected governments in order to convert them to more authoritarian capitalist banana republics? There was a long history of bloody labor movements across the world because capitalist literally wouldn't raise wages so workers could feed their families. Of course I know that slaves didn't want to be there... The commonality of the example is being put on a market and not valued for who you are as a person but rather your return on investment for a master, either a wage master or slave master. I mean, of course it's not the same institution that's why it's an analogy because it's not a perfect example, just in certain regards. Same with the prostitution example, a boss is analogous to a pimp who siphons off money using the threat of violence- sorta on that note, strippers at one place have started to unionize and this gives them more autonomy over their body and receive larger portion of the net income they worked for. You really love a system where 64% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, and then you suggest they just pool their money to make a co-op.... If they're living paycheck to paycheck, what money? I mean, I'm not saying things aren't possible, there's been a lot of progress in the labor movement over the past 200 years. In 1823 people worked 12 to 16 hour days 6 days a week for low pay and few safety standard.... But there was a lot of blood spilled in order to get basic worker protections, I don't think you're really appreciating the size of task you're talking about. Feudalism wasn't ended in a day, nor was I ended in a century. Feudalism in England began to shrink starting with the signing of the Magna Carta and dwindled into the late 1800s as land enclosure parcels were privatized. That's basically 600 years until you get industrial capitalism from the creation of the first political rights for Lords. Things take time, calling people "LARPers" is hilarious... Do you think UPS, UAW, SAGAFTA workers are just LARPing when they threaten to go on strike? This isn't a LARP- this is real life, not roleplay. People are having a hard time paying for rent, medical expenses, and schooling- that is real life, not roleplay.
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@self_improvement_d So we're just glossing over the fact that you didn't understand that workers don't own the factory the investor does? Ok. "Voluntary choice" when the English land enclosure movement occurred people were violently pushed off their land and forced to go work for an employer. That's not voluntary. In the United States much of the contiguous land mass was violently purged of its native inhabitants and turned into 160 arce private property plots. I don't understand how you can just assume that the creation of capitalism was voluntary when Manifest Destiny was anything but voluntary... The Trail Of Tears because they weren't happy to leave their cultural lands. It wasn't like they were tears of joy praising the fact that capitalism was on the rise, lmao. But you're somebody who doesn't see a problem with 64% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck fighting for wages to barely keep up with inflation, meanwhile investors rake in high profits. You see nothing wrong with a few people owning mega yachts meanwhile most people are struggling to pay to keep a roof over their head. Lmao, just keep defending the status quo that doesn't care about you- you're closer to being homeless than you are to being a billionaire.
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@self_improvement_d But that's the problem they didn't work for their money... Home Depot just gave me a raise but I've never worked there (Okay, I did do the self checkout yesterday but they don't pay me for that work, lol). They increased my dividends, increasing my income with me doing no work. I might have worked for the principal purchase price but my capital gains and dividends were not a function of my labor at Home Depot. Alienating the workers at Home Depot from the work that they do just because you put in money early doesn't justify shareholders taking disproportionate amount of gains while their workers struggle to pay rent. I'm no super wealthy capitalist, but I do understand how capitalism works from many different perspectives. If you need another zero you're not halfway to a billion. You make a interesting point on the exponential compounding, but what about other risks. I mean, I had a good investment plan until my health fell apart and now I'm unemployed... Guess what I'm trying to say is don't count your chickens before they roost. Life and investment come with risk, but yes, compounding is one of the ways capitalism magnifies wealth and creates the material conditions of abundance. The problem with capitalism is it aggregates power and wealth to a select few that then dictates conditions to the rest of the people. Workers don't control their labor under capitalism because they don't have the proper bargaining power against concentrated capital, which is why unions are so important. Nordic countries have stronger labor unions and have less worker regulations imposed by the state because unions allow a more equal bargaining position. I learn to invest at an early age and even as a socialist I still invest as owning the means of production is the only way for me to keep my head above water. "Within the last 10 years, Home Depot has increased it by 18.74% annually." I don't see workers getting raises over 18% ANNUALLY. That is what capital bias is.
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