Comments by "M Fitz" (@MFitz12) on "VICE TV"
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@jaygunny8402 - Not what I asked. The circumstances are specific and you will be hard pressed to find others like it. I've seen every episode of "Air Disasters". Still waiting.
That said, 19 tons of aircraft wreckage was recovered at the Shanksville site, some of which had buried itself up to 45 feet down in the soft fill soil. This includes both engines, the FDR and CVR (both with recoverable data), easily recognizable bits of fuselage that were used as evidence in court, over 500 pieces of U.S. mail Flight 93 was carrying as cargo, human remains belonging to everyone aboard Flight 93 (there are no "bodies" at 540 mph - zero in a fraction of a second - don't try it at home), etc, etc, etc,..
You are badly informed.
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@FigureFish - Then you can handle this since its Tuesday;
Controlled demolition is a hand-wave rationalization for the simple minded. No thought required. In fact best if no thought is applied.
It is also wrong. Let's fix that.
Fundamentally the reasons for collapse of the Twin Towers are simple and many of the key mechanisms are visible to the naked eye. All you have to do is look – you don’t need any authority such as an agency, someone waving a credential around or a YouTube video to tell you what to think:
Impact Damage + Fire + Time + Gravity = Collapse
Remove any one of those elements and there is no collapse.
But first we must cover the basics. The Twin Towers were constructed from 3 main elements;
-The 47 hollow steel box-section central core columns which carried the majority (more than 50%) of the gravity loads.
-The 236 hollow steel box-section perimeter columns around the outside of the building which carried the remainder of the gravity loads and ALL of the lateral (wind loads).
-The lightweight long-span steel floor trusses which were bolted at each end to the core and perimeter columns, tying those systems together to form an integrated unit where no one element could survive without the others.
Impact Damage
The impact of 117 tons of airliner (equal in mass to 10 dump trucks) at 467-509 mph has an energy comparable to a ton of TNT. Ask most people if a ton of TNT could bring down a large building they would probably say “sure, no problem”, but some people can not grasp that same energy in a different form. Needless to say this impact – larger than all but the largest Air Force bombs - caused considerable physical damage to the perimeter column and floor truss systems in the impact area. Scores of columns were destroyed or damaged and the trusses across multiple floors damaged or destroyed, impairing the buildings structural integrity and causing gravity loads to be asymmetrically redistributed to the surviving structure, some of which was damaged. Much of the critical structure is destroyed, the rest is carrying more load than it normally should and some of that is damaged.
Additionally, active and passive fire protection and suppression systems were compromised by the impacts. Stand pipes for the sprinkler systems were carried in the outer walls and severed by the impacts, elminating water pressure. Fire protection systems such as fire doors, gypsum board walls and SFRM coatings on the floor truss systems were damaged, destroyed or stripped. All of these factors conspired to dramatically reduce the survival time of the steel structure due to,…
Fire
Carrying as they did around 10,000 lbs. of accelerant in the form of jet fuel – which was atomized on impact – the impacts started large, floor-wide, multi-floor fires which erupted simultaneously.
Time
Steel gets weaker over time as it is heated. Anyone who took metal shop in high school or went on a field trip to a blacksmiths shop knows this, but it should be obvious to everyone else too. 150 years of fire science research and just practical day-to-day experience has taught that lesson well enough.
The hydrocarbon fires started by the burning jet fuel (which again acted principally as an accelerant not a primary fuel source) were more than capable of creating heating conditions that would damage and weaken steel OVER TIME. Enclosed area fire measurements and many building fire code models have repeatedly shown normal building fires as capable of producing vapor layers above 1,600F, and 1,800F peak temps, which is well above the temperate required for structural steel to lose much of its load carrying capacity. Most steels start to experience drastic strength and modulus reductions between 900F to 1,100F.
Melting – as in steel converting to its liquid state - is not in any way required and did not happen.
Again, to compound matters, impact forces destroyed much of the active and passive fire fighting and fire suppression systems, dramatically reducing survival time of the structure – how long it could hold up in a fire.
Gravity
The fire does not need to "cause the collapse of the entire building." A localized collapse (1 or 2 floors) will do just fine. Gravity takes care of the rest. The rest of the building can be entirely undamaged. It makes no difference. Let me explain.
Collapse initiation (what started the building moving) in the Twin Towers is clearly visible to the naked eye if you bother to look. Few do, preferring instead to jump to conclusions based on scant or no evidence and plenty of false starting assumptions.
In the fire-and-impact damaged floors sagging floor trusses can be seen to cause the inward bowing of many of the surviving perimeter columns (remember, many columns were destroyed, others damaged) by up to 5 feet until the perimeter columns buckled. NYPD helicopters reported leaning in both towers prior to their failure, which is absolutely consistent with the clearly visible perimeter column bowing.
You can see the bowing followed by buckling failure here in the excellent Gary Pollard video of the collapse of the South Tower; WTC2 Collapse -- Gary Pollard (Enhanced Raw Copy from NIST)
youtube.com/watch?v=ULdiD6gYZO0&list=PL4GiNqqck-lzR7pebSWRVLoXyu-aWR3Rr&index=599&ab_channel=MrKoenig1985
The formerly static mass above the failure point was instantly transformed into a dynamic mass approximately 30 times greater, turning its abundant Gravitational Potential Energy into actual kinetic energy. That energy was mostly directed INSIDE THE BUILDING, through an overwhelming mass of debris falling through the open office space, impacting the floor below, instantly shearing the bolted connections (a pair of 5/8” bolts per floor truss connection) between the floor and the core and perimeter columns and causing that floor to fail. As each floor failed in sequence it added its mass to the already falling mass, creating even more energy acting on the structure below.
Many people start with a false starting assumption about the collapse of the Twin Towers which can be simply (and generically) stated as “how can 20 floors crush 90 floors”?
They can’t, and didn’t.
Columns were not impacting columns. The falling debris was BYPASSING THE COLUMNS BELOW and acting on the floor connections, not the columns. All that stuff you heard on the conspiracy sites and videos about "15 floors can't crush 90 floors" or a "small block can't crush a bigger block" is bullshit. Wrong mechanisms.
Overly simplified but much more accurate to think in terms of; 20 floors fell on one floor. One floor couldn't hold the weight, so it failed. Then 21 floors fell on one floor, which couldn't hold the weight and failed. Then 22 floors,...
rinse and repeat until you hit the bottom.
It was one floor at a time.
The South Tower collapsed before the North Tower even though the North Tower was hit first because the South Tower was hit harder, lower (more mass above the damage area) and asymmetrically. From start to finish the collapse of the North Tower took about 34 seconds, the South Tower slightly less since it didn’t have as far to go. For those math challenged, that is less than 1/3 the rate of free fall.
That was probably more than you bargained for and possibly a lot more than you wanted, but I assure you it is the Cliff's Notes version. I sincerely hope this helped. Serious questions are welcomed.
And the best part of all of that is, the Twin Towers could have collapsed due to Impact Damage + Fire + Time + Gravity AND the 9/11 attacks could still have been an inside job. Collapse of any building was incidental, not essential.
No reason to cling to obvious nonsense technical claims about pre-planned demolition, controlled or otherwise.
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Facts beat ignorance-fueled personal incredulity
After the collapse of the Soviet Union a decade earlier, the resulting “peace dividend” had seen the size of the United States Air Force cut in half, and the standing alert force defending the continental United States (CONUS) was decimated.
As the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 began to unfold, DC Air National Guard pilots with the 121st Fighter Squadron, Andrews AFB, now Colonel Heather Penney and her commanding officer, now General Marc Sasseville were in a scheduling briefing. Not being an alert unit, only a skeleton crew was on hand that morning, enough to send up just a 3-ship flight, but no chain of command present, nobody to give them authorization to launch. ANG peacetime chain of command is civilian, going up to the state governor normally, but for this squadron because of its geographic location actually goes to the office of the President Of the United States.
Who was out of town, in Florida.
It was about an hour after the Pentagon was hit when Vice President Dick Cheney – in the White House chain of command – gave the order for the ANG squadron at Andrews to put whatever they could in the air.
Because this unit was not an alert unit, the jets were not armed. No missiles and only a handful of inert training rounds for the 20mm cannon were on board. At this time there were 3 possible bogies. The pair climbed into their unarmed F-16 fighter jets and took off in pursuit of one of them, a Boeing 757 which was reported to have turned-around near Cleveland, descended, and was now heading back towards the Capitol. Two more F-16’s were getting fueled and armed to join them when they were ready, 45 minutes later.
With 'Shoot-to-kill' orders but unarmed. the pair decided before take off they would ram their fighter jets into Flight 93 to prevent it from reaching its target. Sasseville ramming the cockpit and Penny the tail in order to bring the hijacked aircraft straight down. They set up a CAP and worked with Potomic Air Traffic Control to identify possible targets.
It was a suicide mission.
Flight 93 however, had already crashed before they even took off.
Sass and Penny flew several more sorties that day, including escorting Air Force One back to DC later in the day.
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Air National Guard fighter pilots Heather Penny and Marc Sasserville
After the collapse of the Soviet Union a decade earlier, the resulting “peace dividend” had seen the size of the United States Air Force cut in half, and the standing alert force defending the continental United States (CONUS) was decimated.
As the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 began to unfold, DC Air National Guard pilots with the 121st Fighter Squadron, Andrews AFB, now Colonel Heather Penney and her commanding officer, now General Marc Sasseville were in a scheduling briefing. Not being an alert unit, only a skeleton crew was on hand that morning, enough to send up just a 3-ship flight, but no chain of command present, nobody to give them authorization to launch. ANG peacetime chain of command is civilian, going up to the state governor normally, but for this squadron because of its geographic location actually goes to the office of the President Of the United States.
Who was out of town, in Florida.
It was about an hour after the Pentagon was hit when Vice President Dick Cheney – in the White House chain of command – gave the order for the ANG squadron at Andrews to put whatever they could in the air.
Because this unit was not an alert unit, the jets were not armed. No missiles and only a handful of inert training rounds for the 20mm cannon were on board. At this time there were 3 possible bogies. The pair climbed into their unarmed F-16 fighter jets and took off in pursuit of one of them, a Boeing 757 which was reported to have turned-around near Cleveland, descended, and was now heading back towards the Capitol. Two more F-16’s were getting fueled and armed to join them when they were ready, 45 minutes later.
With 'Shoot-to-kill' orders but unarmed. the pair decided before take off they would ram their fighter jets into Flight 93 to prevent it from reaching its target. Sasseville ramming the cockpit and Penny the tail in order to bring the hijacked aircraft straight down. They set up a CAP and worked with Potomic Air Traffic Control to identify possible targets.
It was a suicide mission.
Flight 93 however, had already crashed before they even took off.
Sass and Penny flew several more sorties that day, including escorting Air Force One back to DC later in the day.
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Belief has nothing to do with it.
We KNOW Flight 77 (and NOT a missile or anything else) hit the Pentagon not least because of the following true and relevant facts, all of which when added together form one inescapable conclusion. That conclusion is true no matter who planned the 9/11 attacks or why.
1. 136 witnesses saw Flight 77 hit the Pentagon. Zero (0) witnesses saw anything else. About two dozen could identify the aircraft type and/or airline.
2. The damage path on the run in (the tree hit by the right engine, the 5 light poles, the garden wall on the Pentagon lawn and the mobile diesel generator) are consistent with an aircraft the size of a B757. Obviously a missile couldn't do any of that.
3. The impact hole in E Ring on Wedge 1 of the Pentagon is the exact size and shape of a B757 from engine to engine. There are wing impact marks on either side of that extending out to the span of a B757.
4. The inverted cone impact damage path inside the Pentagon with over 80 support columns all bent in the direction of travel is consistent with a high speed impact from a B757 sized aircraft. It could not have been made by the high-explosive blast warhead of a missile.
5. 19 tons of B757 wreckage was recovered at the Pentagon site including the landing gear, both engines, the entire left wing flap assembly, part of the cockpit, seats (some still occupied), landing gear bay doors, fuselage sections, the Flight Data and Cockpit Voice Recorders for Flight 77, etc, etc,...
6. Two parking lot security camera videos from the north parking lot security booth captured images of a B757 sized aircraft flying along the exact flight path of Flight 77 and at the same velocity recorded by its FDR. The aircraft was painted in AA livery and trailing smoke from the right engine due to hitting the aforementioned tree moments earlier.
7. Human remains from everyone aboard Flight 77 were recovered and identified except for one infant who could not be identified. The families of each of the victims were provided with detailed autopsy reports.
8. Thousands of personal effects belonging to persons aboard Flight 77 were recovered at the Pentagon crash site. Families of victims were provided with a book of over 1,000 pages detailing each item for identification and return.
9. Six (6) radar sites tracked Flight 77 from take off to impact. That data EXACTLY matches the 25 hours of recovered FDR data, down to the last decimal.
10. The aircraft and its insurers admit Flight 77 hit the Pentagon and paid out millions of dollars in damages.
11. Boeing confirm Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.
12. Flight 77 never landed anywhere and no one aboard has ever been seen nor heard from since.
13. Even if the 9/11 attacks were an inside job, Flight 77 still hit the Pentagon and the above true facts are still true facts. “9/11 was an inside job” does not mean “flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon”, because,…
14. When staging an attack that absolutely has to use planes, you use planes. Common sense.
All of the above is true no matter who did 9/11, how or why.
If you have some other more plausible alternative as to what hit the Pentagon using ALL of the available evidence (no cherry picking or lies-by-omission) while relying on fewer unproven assumptions than what I outlined above, I would love to hear it. Go ahead, be the first to even try.
Since no one ever does, it’s been nice knowing you.
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How do you figure that? We KNOW Flight 77 (and NOT a missile or anything else) hit the Pentagon not because of one random anomally but because of ALL of the following true and relevant facts, all of which when added together form one inescapable conclusion. That conclusion is true no matter who planned the 9/11 attacks or why. As you read this list (presuming you can) just remember that you don't have one of these and think about that that means.
1. 136 witnesses saw Flight 77 hit the Pentagon. Zero (0) witnesses saw anything else. About two dozen could identify the aircraft type and/or airline.
2. The damage path on the run in (the tree hit by the right engine, the 5 light poles, the garden wall on the Pentagon lawn and the mobile diesel generator) are consistent with an aircraft the size of a B757. Obviously a missile couldn't do any of that.
3. The impact hole in E Ring on Wedge 1 of the Pentagon is the exact size and shape of a B757 from engine to engine. There are wing impact marks on either side of that extending out to the span of a B757.
4. The inverted cone impact damage path inside the Pentagon with over 80 support columns all bent in the direction of travel is consistent with a high speed impact from a B757 sized aircraft. It could not have been made by the high-explosive blast warhead of a missile.
5. 19 tons of B757 wreckage was recovered at the Pentagon site including the landing gear, both engines, the entire left wing flap assembly, part of the cockpit, seats (some still occupied), landing gear bay doors, fuselage sections, the Flight Data and Cockpit Voice Recorders for Flight 77, etc, etc,...
6. Two parking lot security camera videos from the north parking lot security booth captured images of a B757 sized aircraft flying along the exact flight path of Flight 77 and at the same velocity recorded by its FDR. The aircraft was painted in AA livery and trailing smoke from the right engine due to hitting the aforementioned tree moments earlier.
7. Human remains from everyone aboard Flight 77 were recovered and identified except for one infant who could not be identified. The families of each of the victims were provided with detailed autopsy reports.
8. Thousands of personal effects belonging to persons aboard Flight 77 were recovered at the Pentagon crash site. Families of victims were provided with a book of over 1,000 pages detailing each item for identification and return.
9. Six (6) radar sites tracked Flight 77 from take off to impact. That data EXACTLY matches the 25 hours of recovered FDR data, down to the last decimal.
10. The aircraft and its insurers admit Flight 77 hit the Pentagon and paid out millions of dollars in damages.
11. Boeing confirm Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.
12. Flight 77 never landed anywhere and no one aboard has ever been seen nor heard from since.
13. Even if the 9/11 attacks were an inside job, Flight 77 still hit the Pentagon and the above true facts are still true facts. “9/11 was an inside job” does not mean “flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon”, because,…
14. Several of Hani Hanjours instructors are on record stating that while he was not a good pilot (and flight 77’s profile proves this), they have no doubt he flew Flight 77 into the Pentagon.
15. When staging an attack that absolutely has to use planes, you use planes. Common sense.
All of the above is true no matter who did 9/11, how or why and is independent of whether or not the 9/11 attacks were any sort of inside job - which I know will be seen as a blasphemy by many reading this.
If you have some other more plausible alternative as to what hit the Pentagon using ALL of the available evidence (no cherry picking or lies-by-omission) while relying on fewer unproven assumptions than what I outlined above, I would love to hear it. Go ahead, be the first to even try.
Since no one ever does, it’s been nice knowing you.
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Prepare to admit your stupidity. This took all of several seconds to Google BTW.
Air National Guard fighter pilots Heather Penny and Marc Sasserville
After the collapse of the Soviet Union a decade earlier, the resulting “peace dividend” had seen the size of the United States Air Force cut in half, and the standing alert force defending the continental United States (CONUS) was decimated.
As the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 began to unfold, DC Air National Guard pilots with the 121st Fighter Squadron, Andrews AFB, now Colonel Heather Penney and her commanding officer, now General Marc Sasseville were in a scheduling briefing. Not being an alert unit, only a skeleton crew was on hand that morning, enough to send up just a 3-ship flight, but no chain of command present, nobody to give them authorization to launch. ANG peacetime chain of command is civilian, going up to the state governor normally, but for this squadron because of its geographic location actually goes to the office of the President Of the United States.
Who was out of town, in Florida.
It was about an hour after the Pentagon was hit when Vice President Dick Cheney – in the White House chain of command – gave the order for the ANG squadron at Andrews to put whatever they could in the air.
Because this unit was not an alert unit, the jets were not armed. No missiles and only a handful of inert training rounds for the 20mm cannon were on board. At this time there were 3 possible bogies. The pair climbed into their unarmed F-16 fighter jets and took off in pursuit of one of them, a Boeing 757 which was reported to have turned-around near Cleveland, descended, and was now heading back towards the Capitol. Two more F-16’s were getting fueled and armed to join them when they were ready, 45 minutes later.
With 'Shoot-to-kill' orders but unarmed. the pair decided before take off they would ram their fighter jets into Flight 93 to prevent it from reaching its target. Sasseville ramming the cockpit and Penny the tail in order to bring the hijacked aircraft straight down. They set up a CAP and worked with Potomic Air Traffic Control to identify possible targets.
It was a suicide mission.
Flight 93 however, had already crashed before they even took off.
Sass and Penny flew several more sorties that day, including escorting Air Force One back to DC later in the day.
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@domteneglia9121 - Tell you what, how about I do the USS Liberty attack next?
The "Liberty Incident" was the product of gross incompetence by BOTH SIDES. Here is as detailed an account as space allows for regarding what really happened and why:
In June 1967 the NSA without notifying Israel or even U.S. 6th Fleet redirected the signals intelligence ship USS Liberty to operate just 12 instead of 100 miles off the coast of Sinai, in a war zone, in a lane not used by commercial shipping & declared off-limits by Egypt (i.e. only Egyptian warships were likely to be found there). At 6:00am on 6/8/67 an IDF patrol aircraft spotted the Liberty and reported her hull number GTR-5 to IDF Naval HQ where an hour later she was identified as American and marked as a neutral ship on the manual plotting (map) table with a wooden model. The problem with these old manual plots is they quickly become clogged with outdated information and need to be cleared frequently. At 11:00am the watch changed at IDF Naval HQ and the new shift followed procedure by CLEARING THE BOARD, but did so without bothering to check if the neutral ship was still present. They simply assumed it had moved on! While just one of the many mistakes made that morning by both sides this typically appalling lack of basic professionalism is what ultimately sealed Liberty's fate. So while the accusation that the IDF knew what and where the USS Liberty was is true, it is also meaningless as after 11:00am everyone in Israel who knew gone home to bed. For all practical purposes the Liberty had ceased to exist.
1/2 hour later panicky inexperienced IDF reservists at El Arish reported an explosion which they blamed erroneously on naval gunfire. The plotting board at IDF naval HQ showed no neutral or friendly ships so it was assumed ANY ship in the area was hostile and the likely cause of this reported shelling. The IDF's response was badly coordinated, unplanned and haphazard using resources unsuited to the task. First a flotilla of 3 small Motor Torpedo Boats were dispatched (with considerable difficulty and delay) to intercept the Egyptian warship, approaching the Liberty just as she was at the end of her "racetrack" patrol pattern and turning about back towards Egypt. The MTB commander interpreted this course change as an Egyptian warship running for home so he pursued. Unable to catch the "fleeing enemy vessel" air support was called in and 2 flights of fighters on ground-attack missions were diverted to this effort. None of the pilots had any training in ship recognition or attack and were not armed for the job, having only guns and Napalm, not the AP rockets and delayed-action bombs one would use when planning to attack a ship. The jets arrived to look for the fleeing Egyptian warship, made a couple of passes at 3,000 feet altitude, saw no Israeli markings on the ship and therefore identified it as Egyptian - a Hunt or Z class destroyer. The ID was wrong but this was not their fault. They were not looking to see what ship this was but rather what Egyptian ship this was - remember there was no other traffic on the plot so they were not expecting to find anything else but an Egyptian warship - and for what little they knew about ships they had one. At 1:58pm the aircraft were cleared to attack, which lasted 14 minutes until one of the pilots recognized Latin, not Arabic markings on the now burning ship, radioed the information to IDF Air Force HQ and broke off. This information was then passed to IDF Naval HQ but this was 1967, there was a war going on and the WW2 surplus IDF communications system was clogged with a massive backlog of messages. It would take another 2 hours before the Navy knew what the Air Force already knew - that USS Liberty was not an enemy ship.
25 minutes after the end of the air attack the MTB's finally caught-up the burning Liberty from astern and flashed a recognition signal. USS Liberty gave a vague reply and an (unauthorized) burst of 0.50-cal. machine gun fire. The MTB commander naturally interpreted this as an Egyptian ship fighting back so he attacked at 2:45pm with his elderly array of WW2 surplus light automatic guns & torpedoes. 15 minutes later while circling the Liberty one of the boats made out the hull number GTR-5 in Latin, immediately ordered a cease-fire and offered assistance.
Hardly the actions of someone intent on sinking a ship he knew all along was American.
Subsequently the Israeli government paid compensation to the families of the 34 men killed in the attack and to the wounded as well as settlement for the damage to the ship. And note: this was 2 separate attacks each of less than 15 minutes each about an hour apart - not a 2 hour continuous assault as is so often falsely reported on anti-Israeli web sites.
The Liberty incident was hardly the first or last friendly fire incident in history but it comes up all the time while nobody EVER brings up other, more deadly friendly-fire incidents such as the similar but more deadly attack on the USS Stark. Nor do we hear about the American shoot down of Iran Air 655 which killed 280 civilians when the most sophisticated air defense warfare platform in the world at the time mistook a regularly scheduled commercial passenger flight flying out of a commercial airport for an F-14 fighter.
So What makes the Liberty incident so special, other than it involved filthy Jews?
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@jrsergii1 - I know what you were talking about. Again, 19 tons of B757 aircraft wreckage were recovered, some of which was presented as evidence in later litigation. Also recovered with the remains of everyone aboard Flight 93, the FDR and CVR for Flight 93, around 1,000 personal items belonging to persons aboard Flight 93, over 500 pieces of US Mail being carried as cargo on Flight 93, etc, etc, etc,...
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@scottyboy2400 - You didn't have enough common sense to not just mindlessly repeat a bunch of false conspiracy memes with not a hint of fact checking.
20 years of research and THAT is the best you can do? Just regurgitating other peoples false claims and bad ideas?
IF you want to see the results of actual research rather than just copying catch phrases and slogans, playing Wack-a-Mole with irrelevant random anomalies and bad ideas off YouTube, below is the super short Cliff's Notes explanation of Twin Towers collapse. Yet, I bet there is a whole bunch of stuff in there you don't know:
The perimeter columns at the impact floors were hollow box-section tubes of welded A36 plate that was 1/4" thick on the outside and 3/8" thick for the other 3 sides and measuring 14" wide on each side. There were gaps 26" wide between each column that were just air. At 14:57 in this video you can clearly see there was more air than steel. There was no structural load bearing concrete in the Twin Towers
youtube.com/watch?v=DgwlFY-4Txc&t=130s&ab_channel=MarkCampbell
Note how even light which has no mass easily passes straight through.
Collapse initiation stage (what started it collapsing) was sagging floor trusses causing the inward bowing of some of those surviving perimeter columns at the damaged floors by up to 5 feet until they failed by Euler buckling, as shown in the first 12 seconds of this video;
youtube.com/watch?v=ULdiD6gYZO0&list=PL4GiNqqck-lzR7pebSWRVLoXyu-aWR3Rr&index=599&ab_channel=MrKoenig1985
Notice how the columns are already bent when the camera zooms in, become a bit more bent over the next new seconds until they give, starting the collapse.
Columns don’t work well when they are bent. The Twin Towers were designed to work with straight elements not bent ones. When you bend those columns they become up to 4 times weaker. Failure is inevitable.
Collapse progression stage (how they kept falling) was by debris falling within the four walls, failing the floor systems one by one until there were no more floors left. Bang, bang, bang, bang one after another breaking loose as they get hit by falling debris, the air between the floors being rapidly compressed and blown out the sides as each floor fails.
This was followed by perimeter column peel off where those outer walls, disconnected from the rest of the structure peeled off and toppled away from the building more than 600 feet on all four points of the compass. This is quite obvious in the overhead shots of the site pre-cleanup. So most of that mass of perimeter columns fell away from the building and not straight down. If you watch not even all that closely you can see large sections of these perimeter columns free falling much faster than the collapse front of the building itself as shown here from 0:05 to 0:15 to see what obvious nonsense the whole idea is (recommend resolution set to 1080P and speed to 0.5);
youtube.com/watch?v=R889eSvuS-w&ab_channel=EnhancedWTCVideos
So much for free fall speed or even near free fall speed I guess.
Core systems failed last through a process I call beam strip down when the floors were violently ripped away and with more debris crashing through the core system. That many core columns up to 60 stories high were briefly still standing after both towers had collapsed is obvious from the imagery. Without lateral support the surviving core columns quickly buckled and failed, dropping largely (but not entirely) straight down as shown here from 2:00 (recommend set to 1080P HD and 0.5 speed):
youtube.com/watch?v=R889eSvuS-w&ab_channel=EnhancedWTCVideos
That much mass of debris falling up to 1,000 feet is going to hit the ground hard and it is going to compress, making for a tightly packaged debris field, which was still up to 14 stories high and spread out over 16 acres from the two 1-acre footprints of the Twin Towers. The famous "Ground Zero Meteorite" artifact is actually 4 floors of a tower compressed and fused together, giving some idea of the massive forces involved.
Comments and questions are welcome. One at a time please. No Gish Gallop and no whataboutisms on some other random topic.
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Well, its puzzling because you are badly informed. No passports were found at the Pentagon that I am aware of but 19 tons of identifiable B757 wreckage was, including both engines, the landing gear, the entire left wing flap assembly, parts of the fuselage, part of the cockpit, seats (some still occupied), the FDR and CVR, etc,...
Planes did hit the Twin Towers. The "boom, boom, booms" you are talking about came later when the towers were collapsing and are a product of the collapse progression mechanisms, which I can go into in quite a lot of detail if you wish.
There are 136 witnesses to the Pentagon attack who saw a plane, with about 2 dozen able to identify the airline, the aircraft type, or both. There are no witnesses who said there was no plane.
All planes fly that low to the ground either right before they land or they crash. Literally any pilot can do either.
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Air National Guard fighter pilots Heather Penny and Marc Sasserville
After the collapse of the Soviet Union a decade earlier, the resulting “peace dividend” had seen the size of the United States Air Force cut in half, and the standing alert force defending the continental United States (CONUS) was decimated.
As the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 began to unfold, DC Air National Guard pilots with the 121st Fighter Squadron, Andrews AFB, now Colonel Heather Penney and her commanding officer, now General Marc Sasseville were in a scheduling briefing. Not being an alert unit, only a skeleton crew was on hand that morning, enough to send up just a 3-ship flight, but no chain of command present, nobody to give them authorization to launch. ANG peacetime chain of command is civilian, going up to the state governor normally, but for this squadron because of its geographic location actually goes to the office of the President Of the United States.
Who was out of town, in Florida.
It was about an hour after the Pentagon was hit when Vice President Dick Cheney – in the White House chain of command – gave the order for the ANG squadron at Andrews to put whatever they could in the air.
Because this unit was not an alert unit, the jets were not armed. No missiles and only a handful of inert training rounds for the 20mm cannon were on board. At this time there were 3 possible bogies. The pair climbed into their unarmed F-16 fighter jets and took off in pursuit of one of them, a Boeing 757 which was reported to have turned-around near Cleveland, descended, and was now heading back towards the Capitol. Two more F-16’s were getting fueled and armed to join them when they were ready, 45 minutes later.
With 'Shoot-to-kill' orders but unarmed. the pair decided before take off they would ram their fighter jets into Flight 93 to prevent it from reaching its target. Sasseville ramming the cockpit and Penny the tail in order to bring the hijacked aircraft straight down. They set up a CAP and worked with Potomic Air Traffic Control to identify possible targets.
It was a suicide mission.
Flight 93 however, had already crashed before they even took off.
Sass and Penny flew several more sorties that day, including escorting Air Force One back to DC later in the day.
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Air National Guard fighter pilots Heather Penny and Marc Sasserville
After the collapse of the Soviet Union a decade earlier, the resulting “peace dividend” had seen the size of the United States Air Force cut in half, and the standing alert force defending the continental United States (CONUS) was decimated.
As the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 began to unfold, DC Air National Guard pilots with the 121st Fighter Squadron, Andrews AFB, now Colonel Heather Penney and her commanding officer, now General Marc Sasseville were in a scheduling briefing. Not being an alert unit only a skeleton crew was on hand that morning, enough to send up just a 3-ship flight, but no chain of command present, nobody to give them authorization to launch. ANG peacetime chain of command is civilian, going up to the state governor normally, but for this squadron because of its geographic location actually goes to the office of the President Of the United States.
Who was out of town, in Florida.
It was about an hour after the Pentagon was hit when Vice President Dick Cheney – in the White House chain of command – gave the order for the ANG squadron at Andrews to put whatever they could in the air.
Because this unit was not an alert unit, the jets were not armed. No missiles and only a handful of inert training rounds for the 20mm cannon were on board. At this time there were 3 possible bogies. The pair climbed into their unarmed F-16 fighter jets and took off in pursuit of one of them, a Boeing 757 which was reported to have turned-around near Cleveland, descended, and was now heading back towards the Capitol. Two more F-16’s were getting fueled and armed to join them when they were ready, 45 minutes later.
With 'Shoot-to-kill' orders but unarmed. the pair decided before take off they would ram their fighter jets into Flight 93 to prevent it from reaching its target. Sasseville ramming the cockpit and Penny the tail in order to bring the hijacked aircraft straight down. They set up a CAP and worked with Potomic Air Traffic Control to identify possible targets.
It was a suicide mission.
Flight 93 however, had already crashed before they even took off.
Sass and Penny flew several more sorties that day, including escorting Air Force One back to DC later in the day.
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Air National Guard fighter pilots Heather Penny and Marc Sasserville
After the collapse of the Soviet Union a decade earlier, the resulting “peace dividend” had seen the size of the United States Air Force cut in half, and the standing alert force defending the continental United States (CONUS) was decimated.
As the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 began to unfold, DC Air National Guard pilots with the 121st Fighter Squadron, Andrews AFB, now Colonel Heather Penney and her commanding officer, now General Marc Sasseville were in a scheduling briefing. Not being an alert unit, only a skeleton crew was on hand that morning, enough to send up just a 3-ship flight, but no chain of command present, nobody to give them authorization to launch. ANG peacetime chain of command is civilian, going up to the state governor normally, but for this squadron because of its geographic location actually goes to the office of the President Of the United States.
Who was out of town, in Florida.
It was about an hour after the Pentagon was hit when Vice President Dick Cheney – in the White House chain of command – gave the order for the ANG squadron at Andrews to put whatever they could in the air.
Because this unit was not an alert unit, the jets were not armed. No missiles and only a handful of inert training rounds for the 20mm cannon were on board. At this time there were 3 possible bogies. The pair climbed into their unarmed F-16 fighter jets and took off in pursuit of one of them, a Boeing 757 which was reported to have turned-around near Cleveland, descended, and was now heading back towards the Capitol. Two more F-16’s were getting fueled and armed to join them when they were ready, 45 minutes later.
With 'Shoot-to-kill' orders but unarmed. the pair decided before take off they would ram their fighter jets into Flight 93 to prevent it from reaching its target. Sasseville ramming the cockpit and Penny the tail in order to bring the hijacked aircraft straight down. They set up a CAP and worked with Potomic Air Traffic Control to identify possible targets.
It was a suicide mission.
Flight 93 however, had already crashed before they even took off.
Sass and Penny flew several more sorties that day, including escorting Air Force One back to DC later in the day.
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@Cominthroughlikeazoo - Air National Guard fighter pilots Heather Penny and Marc Sasserville
After the collapse of the Soviet Union a decade earlier, the resulting “peace dividend” had seen the size of the United States Air Force cut in half, and the standing alert force defending the continental United States (CONUS) was decimated.
As the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 began to unfold, DC Air National Guard pilots with the 121st Fighter Squadron, Andrews AFB, now Colonel Heather Penney and her commanding officer, now General Marc Sasseville were in a scheduling briefing. Not being an alert unit, only a skeleton crew was on hand that morning, enough to send up just a 3-ship flight, but no chain of command present, nobody to give them authorization to launch. ANG peacetime chain of command is civilian, going up to the state governor normally, but for this squadron because of its geographic location actually goes to the office of the President Of the United States.
Who was out of town, in Florida.
It was about an hour after the Pentagon was hit when Vice President Dick Cheney – in the White House chain of command – gave the order for the ANG squadron at Andrews to put whatever they could in the air.
Because this unit was not an alert unit, the jets were not armed. No missiles and only a handful of inert training rounds for the 20mm cannon were on board. At this time there were 3 possible bogies. The pair climbed into their unarmed F-16 fighter jets and took off in pursuit of one of them, a Boeing 757 which was reported to have turned-around near Cleveland, descended, and was now heading back towards the Capitol. Two more F-16’s were getting fueled and armed to join them when they were ready, 45 minutes later.
With 'Shoot-to-kill' orders but unarmed. the pair decided before take off they would ram their fighter jets into Flight 93 to prevent it from reaching its target. Sasseville ramming the cockpit and Penny the tail in order to bring the hijacked aircraft straight down. They set up a CAP and worked with Potomic Air Traffic Control to identify possible targets.
It was a suicide mission.
Flight 93 however, had already crashed before they even took off.
Sass and Penny flew several more sorties that day, including escorting Air Force One back to DC later in the day.
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The Air National Guard F-16's from the 121st Fighter Squadron, Andrews AFB, flown by now Colonel Heather Penney and her commanding officer, now General Marc Sasseville were not armed because the 121st was not an alert unit . This meant weapons were not loaded, there was only a skeleton crew - sufficient to get a 3-ship flight up, no chain of command present and no one to even give the order to take off. ANG peacetime chain of command is civilian, going up to the state governor normally, but for this squadron because of its geographic location actually goes to the office of the President Of the United States.
Who was out of town, in Florida.
Because this unit was not an alert unit, the jets were not armed. No missiles and only a handful of inert training rounds for the 20mm cannon were on board. At this time there were 3 possible bogies. The pair climbed into their unarmed F-16 fighter jets and took off in pursuit of one of them, a Boeing 757 which was reported to have turned-around near Cleveland, descended, and was now heading back towards the Capitol. Two more F-16’s were getting fueled and armed to join them when they were ready, 45 minutes later.
With 'Shoot-to-kill' orders but unarmed. the pair decided before take off they would ram their fighter jets into Flight 93 to prevent it from reaching its target. Sasseville ramming the cockpit and Penny the tail in order to bring the hijacked aircraft straight down. They set up a CAP and worked with Potomic Air Traffic Control to identify possible targets.
It was a suicide mission.
Flight 93 however, had already crashed before they even took off.
Sass and Penny flew several more sorties that day, including escorting Air Force One back to DC later in the day.
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There is not now and never was any mystery about the collapse of Building 7;
FDNY Chief Daniel Nigro;
”The biggest decision we had to make on the first day was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged 7 World Trade Center, a 47 story building heavily involved in fire. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the buildings structural integrity was in serious doubt. I issues orders to PULL BACK the firefighters and define the collapse zone. It was a critical decision; We could not lose any more firefighters. It took a lot of time to PULL EVERYONE OUT, given the emotionalism of the day, communications difficulties and the collapse terrain.”
Firehouse magazine interview with Deputy Fire Chief Hayden, FDNY.:
Firehouse: Other people tell me that there were a lot of firefighters in the street who were visible, and they put out traffic cones to mark them off?
Hayden: Yeah. There was enough there and we were marking off. There were a lot of damaged apparatus there that were covered. We tried to get searches in those areas. By now, this is going on into the afternoon, and we were concerned about additional collapse, not only of the Marriott, because there was a good portion of the Marriott still standing, but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.
Firehouse: Was there heavy fire in there right away?
Hayden: No, not right away, and that’s probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it. That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started PULLING the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to PULL guys back because we were concerned for their safety.
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