Comments by "TruthWarrior" (@Truth-warrior-j3e) on "Daily Express"
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@Nediablo To save time I will tackle one of yours examples, but happy to discuss the others should you wish to. The question of why paying for maternity through the NHS might be considered morally different from paying for smokers’ treatment involves examining the underlying principles of healthcare ethics, personal responsibility, and societal values. Here are some key points to consider:
1. Nature of the Condition:
• Maternity: Pregnancy is a natural biological process, often viewed as a social good, contributing to the continuation of society. Most people do not see it as a “disease” or something that requires treatment because of a harmful choice. Instead, maternity care is viewed as essential for ensuring the health of both the mother and the baby, and supporting it is seen as a collective societal responsibility.
• Smoking-related illnesses: Many illnesses associated with smoking, such as lung cancer and emphysema, are seen as preventable. Since smoking is a personal choice that is widely recognized as harmful, some people argue that individuals who choose to smoke should bear greater responsibility for the consequences, including the costs of treatment.
2. Personal Responsibility:
• Maternity: While choosing to have a child is a personal decision, it is generally not seen as a reckless or harmful choice. Maternity care is provided to support a healthy outcome for the mother and child, benefiting society at large.
• Smoking: Smoking is often seen as a behavior that an individual chooses to engage in despite well-documented risks. Therefore, some argue that smokers should take greater responsibility for the consequences of their actions, particularly when it comes to the financial burden on the healthcare system.
3. Societal Impact:
• Maternity: Children are seen as the future of society. Supporting maternity care is viewed as an investment in the next generation, ensuring that mothers and babies have the best possible health outcomes.
• Smoking: Smoking-related illnesses impose a significant financial burden on healthcare systems. While society does bear some responsibility for helping those who suffer from smoking-related conditions, the argument is made that these costs could be reduced if fewer people smoked, emphasizing prevention over treatment.
4. Moral and Ethical Considerations:
• Maternity: Providing care for pregnant women is often seen as a moral obligation because it directly impacts the well-being of two lives (mother and child) and ensures the health of future generations. There is a strong ethical argument for society to support maternity care through a public health system like the NHS.
• Smoking: There is a moral debate about how much responsibility individuals should bear for their own health when they engage in risky behaviors like smoking. Some believe that while everyone deserves access to healthcare, those who knowingly engage in harmful activities should not impose additional costs on others.
5. Public Perception:
• Maternity: There is widespread public support for maternity care, as it is seen as a universal need that can affect anyone. The support for maternity care is also tied to broader social values like family and community well-being.
• Smoking: Public perception of smoking has shifted over the years, with increasing awareness of its dangers and a growing emphasis on personal responsibility. This has led to less sympathy for smokers and more support for policies that discourage smoking, including taxes on tobacco products and public health campaigns.
In summary, the moral difference lies in the perception of personal responsibility and societal benefit. Maternity care is seen as a collective responsibility with broad societal benefits, while treatment for smoking-related illnesses is often framed within the context of personal choice and the consequences of risky behavior. However, these views are subject to ongoing debate and vary depending on individual perspectives and cultural attitudes.
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@TestGearJunkie. That is correct. But it’s only a fraction of the full picture. In the fiscal year 2022/23, the UK government collected approximately £10 billion from tobacco duties. When combined with VAT, the total tax take from smoking is even higher. The direct cost to the National Health Service (NHS) for treating smoking-related illnesses is estimated to be around £2.5 billion to £3.3 billion per year. This figure includes the costs of treating conditions such as lung cancer, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), heart disease, and other illnesses directly related to smoking. However, the overall economic impact is significantly negative. This is because you have to also include -
Productivity Losses:
• Smoking-related illnesses also result in significant productivity losses due to premature deaths, absenteeism, and reduced productivity at work. These costs are estimated to be in the range of £6 billion to £8 billion per year.
3. Social Care Costs:
• Smoking contributes to the need for social care, particularly among older adults who require assistance with daily living due to smoking-related conditions. The cost of social care linked to smoking is estimated to be around £1.4 billion per year.
4. Wider Economic Costs:
• When considering the broader economic impact, including lost income and the effect on families and communities, the total cost to the UK economy is estimated to be over £12 billion per year.
Total Estimated Costs:
Overall, the total cost of smoking-related illnesses to the UK is estimated to be between £12 billion and £14 billion per year. This figure includes direct healthcare costs, productivity losses, and additional social care costs, representing a substantial economic burden on the country.
These figures highlight the extensive financial impact of smoking-related diseases, which also has profound implications for public health policy and the allocation of resources in the UK.
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@boota1979 I don’t deal in opinions. I deal entirely on facts, whether people like it or not. The estimate for social care costs related to smoking in the UK, often cited as around £1.4 billion per year, comes from research conducted by public health organizations, academic studies, and government reports that examine the broader impacts of smoking beyond just direct healthcare costs.
Key Sources for Social Care Cost Estimates:
1. Action on Smoking and Health (ASH) Reports:
- ASH has conducted detailed analyses of the economic impact of smoking, including the costs to the social care system. Their reports often use data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) and other governmental and academic studies to estimate how much of the social care burden can be attributed to smoking-related disabilities and chronic conditions.
2. Public Health England (PHE) Studies:
- Public Health England, now part of the UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA), has published reports that include estimates of the costs of social care due to smoking. These reports typically assess the long-term care needs of individuals suffering from smoking-related illnesses, such as chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), cardiovascular disease, and other conditions that may result in a need for social care services.
3. Research by the King's Fund:
- The King's Fund, a leading health think tank in the UK, has also provided insights into how lifestyle factors like smoking contribute to social care demands. Their work often includes analysis of the costs associated with providing care for older adults who are unable to live independently due to smoking-related health issues.
4. Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) Analysis:
- The Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) sometimes commissions or references studies that estimate the impact of smoking on social care services. These estimates take into account the increased likelihood that smokers, particularly as they age, will require social care due to debilitating health conditions.
Methodology for Estimating Social Care Costs:
The methodology typically involves calculating the proportion of people requiring social care who are smokers or who have smoking-related illnesses. This data is then multiplied by the average cost of providing social care services, including both home care and residential care, to estimate the total cost attributable to smoking.
Example of Findings:
For instance, a detailed analysis might look at the prevalence of smoking-related conditions that lead to dependency and need for social care (such as COPD or stroke-related disabilities). The analysis would then estimate how much of the social care provided in a given year is necessitated by these conditions, and apply cost data from local authorities or care providers to derive an overall cost figure.
The figure of approximately £1.4 billion per year is a synthesis of these analyses, representing an average or consensus estimate of the costs associated with providing social care to individuals suffering from conditions that are either directly caused or exacerbated by smoking.
These findings are typically highlighted in public health campaigns and policy discussions to underscore the broader economic impact of smoking beyond healthcare, including its contribution to the social care burden.
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@Saltybuher if you are just talking about the NHS then you are right. Taxes on smoking account for around £10 billion plus compared toNHS costs for the same of around 2.5 to 3.3 Billion. But economically overall it’s a different picture. Overall the cost to the UK is estimated at 12 to 14 billion per year due to direct healthcare costs, productivity losses, and additional social care costs, representing a substantial economic burden on the country. But quite apart from the raw economics, the fact remains that In the UK, the desire to quit smoking is also quite significant among smokers. Here are some relevant statistics:
1. General Population: According to Public Health England (now part of the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities), approximately 60-70% of adult smokers in the UK say they want to quit smoking.
2. Quit Attempts: Around 50-55% of smokers in the UK attempt to quit each year. However, only a small percentage of these attempts result in long-term success without support.
3. Young Adults: Among younger smokers, particularly those aged 18-24, the desire to quit is generally higher, with surveys indicating that up to 75% express a desire to quit smoking.
4. Support Programs: The UK has robust smoking cessation support systems, including the NHS Stop Smoking Services, which have been shown to increase the success rate of quit attempts.
These statistics highlight the strong desire among UK smokers to quit, which is supported by various public health initiatives aimed at reducing smoking prevalence in the country.
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