Comments by "David Ford" (@davidford3115) on "The Truth About Why America Dropped Atomic Bombs on Japan" video.

  1. The Soviet Union didn't declare war on Japan until TWO DAYS after the Hiroshima bombing, and ONE DAY before Nagasaki. Your claims about the Soviet Advance in Manchuria is an anachronistic argument because it puts the effect before the cause.
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  2.  @alwinsoria97  Indeed. Many folks are unaware that the infamous Demon Core that killed Louis Slotten was supposed to be used on Kokura.
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  3. Indeed. The bombs were basically telling them that their death would be meaningless. For a warrior culture, that is the ultimate nightmare, scarier than to die as an old man in their bed.
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  4.  @arutka2000  Indeed. People seem to forget how quickly the Japanese initially built up their military power. And the speed of the post war rebuilding further drives home your point.
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  5. Operation Downfall and Operation Ketsu-Go make it quite clear WHY those bombs had to be dropped.
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  6. Indeed. People conveniently forget that Stalin declared war TWO DAYS after Hiroshima. As you point out, he knew the Pacific theater was about to close so he wanted to get in and claim some spoils before it was over.
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  7. ​ @bobstoffel6811  No, he doesn't. The both of you put the cart before the horse in an anachronistic fallacy.
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  8. Indeed. They had drunk their own kool-aid.
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  9. I am glad you understand those nuances and details. I am amazed at how many people arguing against the use don't understand the critical details you point out.
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  10. Well, and the Japanese never reached out directly to the US, UK, or any of the traditionally neutral powers like Switzerland. They reached out to SOVIET RUSSIA to ask for terms of a cease fire. That shows you how insincere they were. It also shows how insincere the anti-bomb crowd is that they don't acknowledge that critical point.
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  11. Naw, it means you have a gallows sense of humor.
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  12. Not entirely true. The infamous "Demon Core" that killed Louis Slotten was supposed to be bomb number three to be dropped on Kokura (the original target of Bockscar and Fat Man).
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  13. Don't forget that the infamous "Demon Core" was supposed to be bomb number three that would have been dropped on Kokura.
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  14.  @c0ya1  Indeed. The option with the fewest casualties on both sides is ALWAYS the best solution. Sadly, too many people think impossible and unworkable solutions should be pursued even when it is a fool's errand.
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  15. What was certain was the mobilization of troops and weapons in preparation for Ketsu-Go as the Japanese very accurately predicted where Operation Olympic would make landfall in Kyushu.
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  16. Even with generous terms of surrender, the Japanese would have never accepted. The fact that even after the first bomb, they went to the Soviets wanting to dictate terms shows that nothing short of unconditional surrender was even possible. By the time of the Philippines, most Americans had gotten to the point of "let them keep their Emperor".
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  17. And so you avoid a number of chronological fallacies. I wish more people would have the wisdom that you show but NOT judging the past by today's standards and criteria.
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  18. Indeed. They had the ferocity of a Jihadi. You would think that today we would have learned the lessons of WW2 when fighting fanatical zealots.
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  19. Indeed. Nearly all of the torpedoes and bombs used by the Japanese in WW2 came from Nagasaki.
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  20.  @M81005  You don't "scrap" a radioactive core. A better description is that it was melted down and recast into a new core. And as I recall, the recycled core was used in a later nuclear test, though I don't remember which one.
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  21.  @shadowslayer9988  Tokyo had already been firebombed such that over 70% of the city was already smoldering rubble. They would have only targeted the capital with a nuke after all other targets had been expended.
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  22. The naysayers blatantly ignore those little details.
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  23. So is Japanese defense plan Ketsu-Go. Aguments agaisnt using the bombs fail to account for the actions the Japanese would have taken.
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  24. You realize the Japanese government forced civilians to manufacture vehicle parts in their homes? Even if what you suggest was done, the Japanese government would never have permitted the population to evacuate.
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  25.  @Mildain2000  No, it was not. Kokura, the original target of the Second bomb was still a priority.
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  26. Indeed. People seem to not understand that Japan was a warrior culture. So, death in battle, even a losing one is still a warrior's preferred way to go. The bombs denied them that "clean warrior's" death. And I agree about post-War Japan becoming an economic powerhouse. They seem to have taken a page from the Dutch who change to economic might after their pasting by the British.
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  27. Yeah, that is the argument of the anti-nuke crowd and completely takes the whole situation out of context. It is predicated not on facts but on emotions of people who blatantly ignore key details such as the Japanese defense plan Ketsu-Go.
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  28. And both would have looked like cakewalks compared to possible landings at Kyushu. That is but one piece the naysayers blatantly ignore.
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  29. Considering that they didn't surrender after the first one, a "demonstration" would have done nothing.
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  30. Yeah, the anti-bomb crowd blatantly ignores the Japanese defense plan Ketsu-Go, often trivializing it without acknowledging that it would have made Okinawa look like a cakewalk.
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  31.  @crimsonsr20  Nationalism by itself is not a scary thing. FANATICISM driving ETHNONATIONALISM is scary. Putting the best interests of your people first, ahead of your own pride (true patriotism and nationalism) is an honorable and noble thing. What we saw in the Kamikaze and the Banzai charge is akin to Jihadism.
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  32. I think having experienced Iwo Jima and Okinawa, it was VERY easy to quantify the fatality rates on both sides.
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  33.  @MrSergore  No, LOAC was NOT written by Americans, it was a collaboration of people who came together in the wake of WW2 to recodify what is and is not acceptable behavior in time of war. It is amazing your level of historical ignorance and chronological snobbery. But I get it, you can't defend your position because it is based only on emotion, not logic, facts, nor reason.
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  34. Indeed. The Aussies and the Kiwis were kind of miffed that they didn't get to take the point and be the Vanguard during Coral Sea and lead up to the liberation of the Philippines. And when planning for Olympic began, they begged to be a part of the action. It was MacArthur who relegated them to "clean up" operations.
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  35. Indeed. In many ways the Imperial Japanese soldier had much in common with a modern Jihadi.
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  36. Was it Kyoto or Kokura? "Luck of Kokura" was with Ted Fujita.
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  37. There was even a two-time survivor. He lived through the first bomb, was sent to Nagasaki, and lived through that one as well.
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  38. Indeed. They were being opportunists, not serious belligerents.
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  39.  @dominusvolpus8031  More likely we would have dropped the third one on Kokura, the original target of Bockscar and Fatman.
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  40. WRONG. The USSR didn't declare war and invade until TWO DAYS AFTER Hiroshima. They continued pushing on Japan taking the Kuril Islands long after Japan had surrendered.
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  41. @MI6 I never said that YOU insinuated that. Try actually reading what I wrote rather than just jump to conclusions.
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  42. We had the infamous "Demon Core" ready to go into a weapon. The only reason why Louis Slotten was able to "tickle the dragon's tail" was because it was not used in the war. But I agree that another three to five more years of fighting was possible to pacify the islands.
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  43. And so you engage in a number of anachronistic fallacies. You can only judge it by the information of the time, not what is revealed after the fact.
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  44. Tony Starke was right; you need to use a doomsday weapon AT LEAST ONCE to put the fear of God into everyone so that you never have to use them again.
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  45. Did you conveniently forget that the Japanese government was forcing the civilians to manufacture parts for the war effort in their homes? That makes those homes valid targets under the Geneva and Hauge conventions. It is why using civilians as human shields for any war related activities is a Crime against Humanity.
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  46. Hiroshima was the location of an Army Base. Its destruction did nothing to weaken their fighting morale. Further, the Japanese government forced the civilians to manufacture vehicle parts in their homes, a clear war crime that turned those homes into legal targets for bombing campaigns.
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  47. Two days afterwards. A lot of the anti-use folks blatantly lie about that.
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  48. Admiral Yamamoto and a few others who served alongside Americans before the War knew better. But their concerns were ignored by Tojo and company.
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  49. @MI6 Not really. It has since been assessed that FDR's policies only prolonged the Depression, not end it. It was WAR production that pulled the US out of the Great Depression. And that can be seen with the Leand-Lease policy that started the gearing up for wartime production.
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  50. @MI6 Try UCLA and George Washington University. They both concur on that point. You can easily find this information if you bother to do your due diligence. But alas, you clearly do not.
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  51. Indeed. The "Potsdam ultimatum" was a warning they knew the west COULD deliver on, especially since the Doolittle Raid showed we could pull off the seemingly impossible.
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  52.  @EugeneKhutoryansky  That is rationalization fallacy (ie making excuses). Don't try moving the goal posts, because it won't work.
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  53.  @robo5013  Touche!
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  54. I think you forgot to count the infamous Demon Core which killed Louis Slotten.
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  55. And that is anachronistic fallacy. You can't judge it based on knowledge revealed after the fact, only by what was known at the time.
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  56.  @SP-qo3pd  Not entirely true. You do realize that clothing factories, food production facilities, and fuel processing plants are all legitimate targets under the Geneva and Hauge conventions? Further, the Japanese government was forcing civilians to manufacture vehicle parts in their own homes. That is a War Crime. It also makes those home legal targets. Try actually reading about the Law of Armed Conflict before you start lecturing others about what is spite, cruel and cowardly.
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  57.  @comacollosasa6282  That is the kicker, THE ENTIRE RESIDENTIAL BLOCK AROUND NAGASAKI was used as a small parts production factory for the main plants inside the city's industrial center. It wasn't just one house, but nearly all of them. Would be easier to point out the ones that were not.
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  58. Well, and the irony is, used of those weapons actually prevented the total annihilation of the Yamato people. An unintended side effect, but one that has since paid dividends in the decades since.
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  59. Operation Ketsu-Go. It rarely gets talked about.
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  60.  @markspott1741  I am NOT saying that Operation: Downfall consisting of Coronet and Olympic were better options that the nukes. Are you suggesting that? The war planners at the time knew the horrific cost for both sides should that amphibious landing plan had been carried out, hence why they wisely chose to use the nukes.
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  61. You misrepresent Ceasefire for surrender. The two are not the same thing. Further, they reached out to the Soviet Russians dictating terms of the ceasefire showing how insincere they were.
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  62.  @keithmilne4971  And the Japanese had zero interest in surrender. That is my point. What you claim is surrender was nothing more than a desire for a ceasefire. A gross mischaracterization of the situation.
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  63. @MI6 You have zero understanding of the mentality of the Japanese leadership and it shows. Rather than engage in unsupported speculation, you acknowledge that your position and claims have no merit. The Japanese didn't want to surrender on ANY terms and their overtures to the Russians prove that. Stop fooling yourself into believing things that just have no data or evidence supporting them. That is called wishful thinking.
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  64. @MI6 You seem to forget that until AFTER the bomb was dropped, the civilian ministers were still on board with continuing the war. Don't forget, a number of them eventually faced trial for Crimes against Humanity in Japan's version of Nuremberg. Civilian government officials convicted include: Kōki Hirota (Prime Minister and later foreign minister), Hiranuma Kiichirō (Prime Minister), Naoki Hoshino (Chief cabinet secretary) Okinori Kaya (Minister of Finance) Kōichi Kido (Lord Keeper Privy Seal) Shigenori Tōgō (foreign minister)
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  65. Japan was not particularly good with anti-air defenses. Further, there was an Army Base in Hiroshima. And Nagasaki was a military supply depot as well as a munitions production site.
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  66. Indeed. Kokura was supposed to be the second city bombed. It would have been number three had they not capitulated.
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  67. Both cities would have been firebombed if we didn't use nukes.
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  68. Indeed. Many similarities to a Jihadi. You would think we had learned something from WW2. Ironically it may have been fighting the Moro Jihadis in the Philippines that "conditioned" Americans to fight zealots.
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  69.  @YoungWildShottas  And so you show how infantile you are, throwing a temper tantrum without actually debating merits. You are like a pigeon playing chess.
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  70. Do you know WHY that is? MIDWAY. Japan's best pilots who could train the next generation were lost when the Fleet Carriers Akagi, Kaga, Soryuu, and Hiryuu went to the bottom of the Pacific. "The Five Minutes of Fate" which changed the war. After that, they knew they had lost the war, but refused to stop fighting. So no, it is NOT under false premise, it is putting things in their proper context.
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  71.  @davidogundipe808  The only reason why people call it evil is because they can't control nor manipulate it. Just because it is an easy concept to understand doesn't mean the people who subscribe to it are simple people with simple thinking. The power mongers get angry because it often goes hand in hand with populism, something that is a direct threat to them. And, because they have great difficulty trying to deceive people who subscribe to nationalism.
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  72. And they conflate CEASEFIRE with surrender. The two are not the same thing.
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  73. The Rosenbergs are who got Oppenheimer's weapon to Stalin. One has to wonder when they started leaking that information.
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  74. Are you not aware the Nagasaki had the largest population of Christians in Japan? I suspect you were not aware of that little fact. Have you forgotten the ethnonationalist policies of Imperial Japan, particularly their treatment of Chinese and Koreans? Or their horrific abuse of POWs? Before you start throwing around the race card why don't you actually become knowledgeable about the situation.
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  75.  @MrSergore  Actually, nuclear weapons are still sanctioned as legal under the Hauge convention. it is clear you don't actually know what constitutes a War Crime or Crime Against Humanity. Try reading about the Law of Armed Conflict before you lecture others about war crimes.
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