Comments by "Simon" (@Simon-dm8zv) on "Why Hydrogen Cars Will Be Tesla’s Biggest Threat" video.

  1. Hydrogen is not a competition at all to Tesla or any other EV manufacturer.
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  2.  @truthseeker.108  Hydrogen cars are far less efficient, much more complex to build and maintain and therefore cost more per mile and to maintain.
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  3. Exactly sir
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  4. Lol LPG is just another hydrocarbon. Nothing fancy about it. Emissions are only marginally lower than gasoline.
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  5. CNG still creates loads of CO2...
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  6. Not really. The biggest problem with fuel cell cars is that they are intrinsically inefficient. EVs have always been very efficient since day 1. Fuel cells last shorter than current batteries. Proper EV batteries (Tesla) last hundreds of thousands of miles and will thus often survive the car itself. Lithium ion batteries are definitely recyclable. Mass adoption of fuel cell vehicles would be an insane waste of energy and thus slow down the whole energy transition.
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  7. EpsilonAlpha π You don’t seem to get the definition of efficiency right. Weight does not say anything about efficiency. It’s about energy per distance. That has always been low with EVs, even in the very beginning.
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  8. Lol so much bull shit. "I remain convinced Hydrogen (possibly cracked from seawater by wind power or by power from Rolls Royce’s future mini reactors) and synthetic liquid fuels made by the sun’s energy remain a far better environmental bet for de-carbonising road transport from 2030." He is concerned about the energy required for battery production and then all of a sudden he starts to propose utterly inefficient technologies like hydrogen and synthetic fuels 😂😂
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  9.  @gissit1967  Again: exactly the same for fuel cell vehicles and probably even more because you need to multiply the number of required wind turbines and solar panels by three.
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  10. BubbaJo of course not 😂
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  11. BubbaJo It’s a dead end road. Elon realised hydrogen is a waste of energy and resources in an early stage.
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  12. layerdballoon Electric vehicles require no shifting. Not manual nor automatic.
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  13. And EVs are MUCH more efficient.
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  14. Wrong. Battery production is already below 100 kg of CO2 per kWh and this will decline even further over the years. Hydrogen will always remain super inefficient and therefore polluting.
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  15.  @alexandrufilipescu1301  In my country too. What is your point?
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  16. Alexandru Filipescu The fact that it is cheap doesn’t mean it is a solution for the future. It still emits CO2 and other shit.
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  17. Erm nope
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  18.  @mkviis  Elon is laughing his ass off about hydrogen vehicles.
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  19. Oil companies have been making hydrogen for quite a while..
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  20.  @gissit1967  You have clearly no idea of the current state of battery technology and the availability of lithium. http://litio.ipg.pt/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Global-lithium-availability-A-Constraint-for-Electric-Vehicles_2011.pdf
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  21.  @gissit1967  Your numbers are way off. Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are 30% efficient and BEVs are 75% efficient. A factor 2,5 difference. https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/stories/2019/08/hydrogen-or-battery--that-is-the-question.html We simply cannot afford to waste precious energy on hydrogen cars.
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  22. Give me one example.
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  23.  @MarkTheTreeManVann  The Mirai didn't exist 16 years ago.
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  24. It's not.
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  25. And that's exactly why they don't make sense. 1. The fuel is expensive 2. The vehicles are inefficient 3. You have to refuel at filling stations 4. They require a lot of maintenance 5. They are slow.
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  26. 'commercial threat' 😂😂😂😂😂
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  27. Lol
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  28. Too complicated and battery technology advancements will soon make such vehicles obsolete before a hydrogen ecosystem gets the chance to develop.
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  29. layerdballoon Lol of course it won’t.
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  30. layerdballoon Because it is useless
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  31. layerdballoon There is no need to change gears at all. It is just a fixed reduction.
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  32.  @layerdballoonswe  Electric motors can be reversed, unlike internal combustion engines. They also do not need to keep running when you stand still, so a physical neutral is not required either.
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  33.  @layerdballoonswe  I am saying that the electric motor is directly connected to the driveshaft of the wheels. Always. No gears to shift.
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  34. layerdballoon Again, the electric motor is always connected to the wheels. By pressing a switch you tell the motor to spin forward or backward.
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  35.  @layerdballoonswe  Yea sort of. But not mechanically. Of course you can attach some sort of a stalk or lever to that switch to give you a more nostalgic feel haha.
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  36. Wrong. If hydrogen was a bright idea, Elon would have implemented this technology in Tesla cars.
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  37. Exactly
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  38. But first we need to replace the current enormous amounts of grey hydrogen that are required on a daily basis for fertiliser, glass and metal alloy production. Hydrogen has been an industrial feed stock for decades and there is no alternative for that.
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  39. Nope. Hydrogen is always inefficient. No matter the scale.
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  40. Yeah they went way down.
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  41.  @miguellopez3392  Yup. Methane is much easier to handle. Hydrogen for rockets would require cryogenic storage and the material embrittlement that comes with it is neither very handy with reusable rockets.
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  42. Wrong
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  43. No you can't.
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  44. And will never be.
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  45. They are not.
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  46. Common misconception. Batteries don't end up in landfills because they are full of valuable materials. Battery recycling has been a thing for decades and this will simply adapt to EV batteries. Most people have no clue about battery production. It's not as bad as you might think. Lithium mining is not invasive and there is plenty of it. Cobalt is a different story, but the presence of this material is declining rapidly in battery designs. CO2 emissions are currently at less than 100 kg of CO2 per kWh. The bottom line is that production of batteries is rather quickly compensated because of the super high efficiency of an EV. An FCEV is inefficient its entire lifetime. Also, fuel cells degrade over time and also require 'rare earth' materials just like batteries and FCEVs also have (smaller) lithium-ion batteries.
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  47. rons4620 Because they use electricity to make hydrogen in the first place.
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  48.  @pionieresvizzero2224  Nobody would use the hydrogen option in such a vehicle.
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  49. Theoretically every parking space can be equipped with a charger. Infrastructure for hydrogen is NOT there. The only thing you can reuse of an existing petrol station is the canopy and the shop. Building fast chargers at these locations is a lot easier and cheaper.
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  50.  @richardgourlay5191  Well the reason is that hydrogen is inherently inefficient compared to fully electric and would thus slow down the energy transition and the reduction of CO2 emissions. Every hydrogen fuel cell car is practically already a hybrid. They all have small lithium ion batteries on board.
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  51. You would be surprised that hydrogen stations are not capable at all of servicing many vehicles after another. Re-pressurisation can take up to 10 minutes in between every three cars and many FCEV owners have to deal with nozzles frozen to their vehicles, waiting for it to warm up again in order to take it off.
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  52. Haha well put
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  53. Exactly. It is unbelievably stupid.
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  54. LOL
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  55. There is no infrastructure. The only thing you can reuse of a petrol station is the shop. Hydrogen remains horribly inefficient and thus slows down the energy transition.
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  56. I think I see what you mean, but I highly doupt this would actually make sense, even in Japan. 'Slow' charging doesn't take up much space (in theory any lamp post can become one) and doesn't require huge improvements of the grid. Most drivers can get around with only charging at a slow rate during the night. Rapid chargers are easily placed along motorways, just like petrol stations. Japan is importing all of its hydrogen from Australia where it is made from coal and then shipped to Japan.
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  57. You are stuck in 2010?
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  58. Tadgh Smith In 2020 electric cars do not take one hour to charge
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  59.  @tadghsmith1457  lol fast charging takes 20 minutes on average. Electric police cars are being used in many countries with great succes. In a real emergency any type of refuelling or charging is too long.
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  60. Tadgh Smith Lol do you have a fuel pump in your garage?
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  61. Tadgh Smith It’s just a matter of time before every town and village in the world has fast chargers.
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  62. Tadgh Smith You clearly have no clue of where we already are and what is going to happen within the next 10 years. All cars will be electric.
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  63. Tadgh Smith Again, it is clear you have no clue of the current status of electric cars when you keep mentioning range, cost and charging speed. Practically none of these subjects are an issue anymore in 2020 and definitely not in 2025. Hybrids and fuel cell cars simply won’t have a right to exist in the near future because of advances in battery tech. It’s simple as that.
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  64. Tadgh Smith Energy density (and power density definitely not either!) is not really a problem for cars. Tesla’s current Long Range models are getting very close to that of a liquid fueled car range wise without being unacceptably heavy. A hydrogen car like the Mirai has an equal range and weighs about the same. You are simply wrong when it comes to range. It’s only 2020 and we are pretty much there technology wise. Prices will drop significally the next 5-10 years (like they have been over the last years) and with next generation battery tech (see Tesla’s 4680 cell) it will be completely out of the question wether an EV or an ICE is better. Hydrogen is just dumb for vehicles because it is so incredibly inefficient and cumbersome.
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  65. Tadgh Smith Efficiency has never been the problem with batteries... You don’t seem to understand Tesla’s new battery. It is larger, more energy dense by weight and volume and it is cheaper to produce. And I say it one more time: we are pretty much already there. Cost has gone down a lot compared to 5 years ago and this will continue. EVs allow you to charge when you sleep, every morning you drive away with a full battery. Fast charging is only for occasional long trips and often takes less than 20 minutes. You need a break anyway after hours of driving. It is a non issue. Hydrogen actually HAS serious problems with efficiency and this will never improve considerably due to simple laws of physics. Due to this hydrogen cars are much more expensive to run and cause much higher emissions per mile and they also require much more maintenance. Also: fuel cells wear out much faster than any battery. Proper EV batteries last hundreds of thousands of miles and will often actually outlive the car. Hydrogen is dead on arrival.
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  66. Tadgh Smith Of course you can come up with some scenarios in which a certain type of car would not be so practical. Fact is that an electric car is perfectly useable in 99% of the situations for 99% of the people, even now in 2020 and definitely in 2030. And no, in the future you don’t need to search for fast chargers - they will be simply everywhere. Just like gas station. It’s out of the question. Also, it will be a simple matter legislation. In 10 years sales of diesel and petrol cars will be banned in most of Europe and California for example.
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  67.  @tadghsmith1457  The reason is just price.
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  68.  @miguellopez3392  Exactly.
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  69. Infrastructure is basically there, only needs some re-enforcement and installation of charging stations. Current battery tech does not require to charge on a daily basis, just like petrol cars.
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  70. Well said
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  71. But it doesn’t make cars better 😂
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  72. Not enough cooking oil
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  73. And they will remain so ^^
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  74.  @victorkeck  EVs are and will remain much better
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  75.  @victorkeck  EVs will always be MUCH more efficient and therefore cheap per mile and causing less CO2 emissions.
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  76. ​ @gissit1967  It is clear that you sir have never done any proper research yourself on this subject. Cobalt is on its way out as an important anode material. Other metals like lithium and nickel are pretty easily available. Also: how do you think hydrogen fuel cell cars are going to fix this problem? They also require large amounts of comparable materials.
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  77.  @gissit1967  Of course I know the actual footprint of producing EVs and battery packs. Otherwise I wouldn't be making these clear statements. There is some very extensive and solid research material available if you are interested.
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  78. Volumetric energy density of hydrogen is hideously low.
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  79. Wrong. Pretty much all electricity is cleaner than any diesel or petrol.
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  80. Sơn Phạm Almost. BEV = 70%
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  81. You shouldn’t
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  82. These vehicles have batteries on board as well. So yes, they can. But that still doesn't make them good cars.
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  83. Lol why would they.
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  84. Current batteries last longer than the vehicle itself. Fuel cells also deteriorate. Fast charging often takes less than half an hour. The energy source is not so relevant. The point is that a fuel cell car uses three times more of that exact same (renewable or non renewable) electric energy.
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  85. ​ @daloshea6723  Especially for consumers fuel cell cars make no sense. Most EV owners charge during the night, so charging time = 0 minutes. Fast charging is only done occasionally and half an hour break after a few hundred kilometers is something you do anyway. Current EVs are already capable of achieving similar ranges as fuel cell vehicles for only 1/3rd of the cost and energy consumption. The energy source is not relevant in this comparison because EVs are always cleaner than ICE or fuel cell cars because they are so efficient. Even on non-renewable energy an EV emits less CO2 than a petrol or diesel car.
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  86. ​ @daloshea6723  1. Public slow chargers in the street fixes this. Works well where I live. 2. Fuel cell vehicles are not expected to make big progress range wise because that would require an even larger tank or even more compression (and thus even lower efficiency). 3. Why do you think it is easier to acquire green energy for hydrogen production while the whole process requires 3X more energy? It obviously is not. 4. The air purification feature is just a little gimmick and does not form a good argument for fuel cell vehicle adoption. It would be much wiser to just go for EVs and spend the enormous amounts of energy saved on powering stationary air purification appliances. Also: if we all drive zero emission vehicles in the future there is not much air to clean anyway.
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  87. It's the other way around. Oil lobby loves hydrogen.
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  88. Cost per mile will always remain about three times as expensive as an EV.
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  89. Hydrogen cars are much more complex and require a lot more maintenance than an EV.
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  90. Petrol and diesel are quite close to each other when it comes to efficiency. Hydrogen and batteries are clearly not.
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  91.  @RR-us2kp  Using hydrogen for vehicles is a complete waste of precious energy. That is the problem.
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  92.  @RR-us2kp  haha
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  93. Infrastructure is the smallest problem. The "mind-bogglingly stupid" part is the complete lack of efficiency.
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  94. You don't need FCEV's to solve the storage problem. Yes, you could store renewable energy with hydrogen for seasonal buffering. But of course you do not need to distribute it all over the world to fuel cars, that would be way too inefficient. Cars will simply remain battery electric because of the simplicity and efficiency.
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  95. Not really
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  96. Not really
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  97. Not really. Practically no manufacturer is focusing on hydrogen.
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  98. Barely time saving..
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  99. Zoo Juice Bullshit. You can charge at any regular socket all around the world. Also: Superchargers are in MANY countries around the world and apart from that you can use any other fast charger as well.
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  100. There is not much to master. It will always be inherently inefficient.
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