Comments by "Guillotine Enthusiast™️" (@timediverx) on "Joe Rogan | Was Jesus a Real Person?" video.

  1.  @docbeastpants  Maybe he was the most important person to you and other Christians, but not to anyone outside of your religion. Muslims for example would say Mohammed was the most important person in history. Mormons would say Joseph Smith. See my point?
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  2. Non-Christians really don't care if there was a historical Yeshua the gospels were based around or not. It really is irrelevant to people outside of the religion.
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  3.  Randy Porter  Is your theory subject to change as well? Or does that train only run one way? 😉
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  4.  Randy Porter  You should get up to date on the scholarship and the archaeology surrounding the Bible. The Patriarchs, Moses, Abraham etc. are considered fictional characters by any scholar worth their salt in the field. Same goes for the first Exodus, the Global Flood and the lightning invasion of Caanan. All are considered mythological by modern scholars.
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  5. Here we go. Now which one of you is right?
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  6. Where is this evidence You speak of? I've been looking for over a decade and have yet to find anything outside of the Bible to support that the Yeshua od the gospels existed. There are extra-biblical records for half a dozen other apocalyptic preachers named Yeshua around that time, but not for the Jesus of the gospels.
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  7.  @vasecore7508  Way to back up your claims. Did your confidence drop that much that quickly?
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  8.  @bmoneyrancidfan91  Then don't stop believing. Just don't be surprised that less and less people believe what you believe and don't mix your religion and politics.
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  9.  @bmoneyrancidfan91  Who has given you hate for your comment? I was being completely sincere. I live in central Alabama where it is roughly 90-98% Christian. I have a lot of sympathy for them but at the same time I have no respect for their beliefs or the way the churches are joined at the hip with the Republican party.
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  10.  @revo1974  The impact of the Christian religion is what I think you really mean. Not the man himself, if he even existed.
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  11.    Do you see what I mean? You and the other guy gave different answers. Then you "harmonized" them. My point is we have no way of knowing what his last words actually were, you are just doing guess-work.
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  12.  @vasecore7508  Ok, so enlighten everyone here. What did Pliny, Tacitus and Seutonius have to say about Jesus? You can copy/paste them here directly. I've read them all by the way, but because you are so confident I would love to see you give your case.
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  13.  @vasecore7508  Nice try kid but we can see through you. I'll make this simple. You made a claim. I asked you to support your claim. You refused and instead tried to shift the burden onto me. Because you refused to back up your claim there is no reason for anyone to take it seriously. Hope this helps.
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  14. That is literally an argument from incredulity.
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  15.  @Stonktradomus  Here's what I heard you say : "You can't tell me how the universe began so obviously I am justified in saying God done it because I can't think of anything else." Yup, all you have seems to be an argument from personal incredulity.
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  16. In your hypothetical I would say "Because there wasn't any evidence I found convincing." Then if your god decided I deserved to be tortured for eternity because I didn't believe for lack of evidence... well he would just be a dick who doesn't deserve worship even if he did exist. Nothing I could do about it at that point.
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  17.  @synsynlol4315  The Gregorian calender last I checked. It is October 22nd, 2019 C.E.
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  18.    Just as incoherent as the teachings of Yeshua. I've got a question. What were Yeshua's last words before his death on the cross?
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  19.    You are still missing my point. You have no way of knowing anything he actually said. We only have books written later and if read in chronological order we can easily see the growth of the legend. The Jesus in Mark is not the same as the Jesus in Matthew, Luke, John or Paul's letters.
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  20.    Nothing you said about the disciples is relevant to me. Their is no evidence whatsoever that the disciples had any hand in writing the gospels. The gospels are anonymous, written in highly stylized Greek. The early church traditions are where we get the "The Gospel according to so-and-so" titles, not the texts themselves. I would encourage you to do what Bart Ehrman used to suggest. Read the gospels side by side and make notes of the similarities and the differences, instead of trying to harmonize them into one single gospel. Because that is not how they were written.
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  21.  @ChristianMission  Nah, that's just how you see it. There is no extra-biblical record of the Yeshua from the gospels. The only information we have comes from religious texts and tradition. Which is odd because there are records of other apocalyptic preachers named Yeshua around the 1st Century. Even if there was. 100% rock solid evidence of that particular Yeshua existing as an actual flesh-and-blood man on earth it still couldn't prove he was the Superman the religion is based around. To non-Christians it really doesn't matter if he existed ot not. We still wouldn't be able to believe he walked on water and rose from the dead. It would still be silly to believe that just because it is written in a book.
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  22.  @jamesjones6867  I pointed out your bad grammar because it's bad grammar. Because it makes you look like a child who was never taught how to write properly. I'm sure you get it all the time and assume the problem is everyone else and not you right? 😉 You are still wrong no matter how many 😂 emojis you use. I've got a challenge for you. Link me to the Tacitus you are using as a reference and I'll break it down for you from there.
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  23.  @jbbudish  I don't see how you could demonstrate your claim that "Christianity has been the guiding force for all of Western history since the fall of Rome." Have there been human beings born and raised as Christians ever since then? Yes. But you seem to be giving the religion credit for all of Western culture and so I'm curious. Do you give Christianity and Jesus sole credit for the Holy Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, Antebellum Slavery and the Holocaust as well? There were plenty of good God-fearing Christians involved in and orchestrating those events as well so surely you can put those at the feet of Jesus along with all the scientific discoveries he seems to have inspired.
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  24.  B T  Oh wow. Coming from you that means a lot! 😉
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  25.  @vasecore7508  No problem
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  26. Because in America at least, the Evangelical Christians are joined at the hip to one political party and think they have a god-given right to enfore their views on the rest of us.
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  27. WLC is not a "serious" opposing view. His only trick is to define his god into existence. Armchair philosophy can be fun for the mind but it is useless for getting at the truth of whether or not a god exists. WLC would be a waste of Joe's time.
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  28.  @jam4350  I was raised Christian in Alabama. I call what WLC does a "trick" in the sense of him being a one-trick pony. All he has is armchair philosophy and that doesn't convince anyone who knows better. It's just a fun mental excercise that keeps him and many other Christians happy but does nothing to demostrate the truth of their claims.
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  29. Why? You can just go to church or watch apologists for that.
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  30. What's wrong with doubting they existed? It wouldn't bother me one bit if scholars came out tomorrow unified in saying none of them existed. So what's your point?
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  31.    That's not what I'm saying at all. The 4 gospel writers, whoever they were, had very different theologies and motivations. The consensus on earliest gospel we have (Mark) is that it was written by a highly educated Greek writer somewhere between 30-50 years after Jesus' death, not an Aramaic speaking layman who was present for the events. The other gospel writers are in the same boat. We have only one writer, in all of the recorded history available to us, who claims to have personally met Jesus. Paul, and his claim is of a vision or a revelation, not of a historical Jesus. What I'm saying is that it is all hearsay with no corroboration outside of the religious texts themselves. If we actually had non-Christian sources from the 1st Century it would be a different story, but we don't have that.
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  32.  @jamesjones6867  Wrong and wrong. Not all scholars believe he existed. There are no extra-biblical sources that confirm the existence of the Yeshua from the gospels, which is odd because there are records for half a dozen other apocalyptic preachers named Yeshua around the 1st Century. He probably existed is the best anyone can really say and even if he did exist the Superman Jesus from the gospels most probably did not.
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  33.  @jamesjones6867  sigh You are just wrong. I'll let you get away with saying "the majority of scholars" but not "all scholars." None of the sources you pointed to ever had any contact with the Jesus of the gospels nor any direct eyewitnesses to his life. The consensus on the main Josephus passage, used by Christians to make your argument, is that it is considered a forgery by later Christians who altered his work. Tacitus simply wrote down what the Christians said about their Jesus, he isn't making a record and saying "this is what happened in history." So that's two down. I would have to go back through the Pliny and Suetonius passages to give details but from what I remember they had similar authenticity problems. I'm sure plenty of Christian Apologists have told you those ancient sources PROVE the Jesus of the gospels existed but they are just wrong. The truth is, only one person in any ancient text makes the claim that they were a first-hand eyewitness to the Jesus of the gospels. That is Paul, and his encounter is a vision with a resurrected Jesus. So there are literally ZERO documents from the ancient world (outside of the religion itself) that corroborate his existence. Sorry, thems the facts.
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  34.  @jamesjones6867  If you re-read your own post you should be able to see that the sources you list simply repeat what Christians believe. None of them (outside the religion) make the claim there is validity to those beliefs.
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  35.  @jamesjones6867  yup, your arguments are just as bad as your grammar. I'm not even going to subject my eyeballs to reading every word in that non-stop wall of text. Maybe learn how to seperate your thoughts into paragraphs instead of making a post that looks like one long run-on sentence. Tacitus is simply relaying the information he was given by Christians. He never makes the claim that "I've investigated this and it is a historical fact." But feel free to keep pretending he does so you can keep stroking your confirmation bias. Hasn't anyone ever told you that quoting the Bible doesn't work like a Jedi Mind trick? 😉 You really know next to nothing but seem convinced you have it all figured out because "the Bible tells me so." You are showing off the Dunning-Krueger effect quite spectacularly.
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  36.  @jbbudish  Again, you want to give credit to Christianity for ending slavery while ignoring the fact that all the good God-fearing Southern slave owners had to do was open their Bibles up to Exodus and Leviticus to find complete justification and instructions from their God for owning other humans as property that they can pass down to their children. So if you want to go down that road you are going to find yourself on the losing side of the argument very quickly.
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  37.  @jbbudish  One of my posts keeps disappearing and I don't know why.
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  38.  @jbbudish  That's exactly my point. You are only giving Christianity and Jesus direct credit for the things in history you think are good. Why not give them credit for the bad as well? That's all I've been saying the whole time.
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  39.  @jbbudish  sigh Apparently your cognitive dissonance is so thick you just can't see what I'm saying. Let me try another way. HUMANS who were born and raised Christians abolished slavery. If Jesus had ever once said "Hey guys... those instructions I gave to Moses about buying your slaves from the heathens around you, how badly you can beat them without being punished and that you can pass them down to your children as property... yeah, well I was wrong about all that. It is now a sin to own other humans as property." Then I would say you have an argument to make. The reason I think you are dead wrong about your assertion is this. If Jesus and Christianity were anti-slavery/abolitionist then why did it take almost 2,000 years for the practice to be ended?
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  40.  @jbbudish  shrug Calling me arrogant doesn't bother me. You can't really demonstrate the claims you are making, you just say them with confidence and seem to think that makes them true. But to me it just sounds like you've found an apologetic that you like and repeating it just makes you more sure of yourself. The reason why I keep using the term cognitive dissonance to describe what I'm taking away from you in this conversation is exactly what I said before. You are giving Yeshua/Christianity credit for "good" things humans raised as Christians have done and ignoring literally everything humans raised as Christians have done that would be considered "bad." So at this point because I have seen no progress on your part I have to stick with my earlier assessment. Cognitive Dissonance is keeping you from realizing the huge gaping hole in your argument.
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  41.  @jbbudish  I guess at this point all I can do is encourage you to re-read your last post and observe your arrogance you are trying to project on to me. I think you may be in the lead to win the Dunning-Krueger award for this thread. Nothing you have presented is convincing to anyone other than yourself because you already believe or at least want to believe it. Keep sweeping everything that doesn't fit your hypothesis under the rug if you want but you are just creating a story for yourself to enjoy, not observing reality. Best of luck, I think we've wasted enough time talking past each other.
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  42.  @jbbudish  I finished a book just yesterday actually. The Last Argument of Kings. Sadly, it didn't make the half-thought out argument you keep using. Maybe you had specific books in mind? Something that proves your argument and debunks mine?
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  43.  @jbbudish  I was being facetious in response to your "read a book" line. Though I will say, if you like fiction and haven't read the First Law Trilogy I would definitely recommend it. Even the audio version is brilliant.
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  44.  @andrewclemens9105  Of course, people will have differing opinions. It is 2019 and there are still plenty of people who think evolution by natural selection is "fake news" after all. I would recommend the Yale Hebrew Bible study taught by Catherine Hayes as a starting point. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNeyuvTEbD-Ei0JdMUujXfyWi
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  45.  Telios Abraxas  I don't think it is fair to say "none" of it literally happened. But I think we would probably agree more than disagree.
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  46.  Randy Porter  So would you consider yourself an agnostic theist?
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  47.  Telios Abraxas  I don't know where you are getting any of that from but I would recommend the Yale course on the Hebrew Bible taught by Christine Hayes. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNeyuvTEbD-Ei0JdMUujXfyWi
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  48. I call bullshit Adam. Some Christian apologists have been lying to you. There is literally no extra-biblical evvidence for the Yeshua in the gospels.
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  49. Why should he cater to the Christians? Why do you guys get so bent when people disagree with you?
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  50. They have the same attitude you would have if someone asked you "Did Zeus really exist?" 😉
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  51.  @matt_milack  Maybe he was off taking a leak and you should try again?
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  52. Yeah, that's bullshit. There is literally NO extra-biblical evidence to confirm the existence of the Yeshua in the gospels.
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  53.  @Gutslinger  Have you really never heard that term before? It just means "outside the Bible." It's not something I made up. There are not "many historical evidences for his existence." This is what the Apologists are paid to tell the laymen to keep them confident in their faith and coming back for more. I have already had this same conversation with half a dozen people over the past few days so I'm going to try to keep this short. We have only one author in all of recorded history who makes the claim that he personally met Yeshua. Do you know who that is?
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  54. Oh? Is religious fanaticism bad then?
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  55.  @ilkin1974  Yeah you seem to have some deep-seated misunderstandings here. I'll try to help. Theism = Belief in a god or gods. A(non)theism = Lack of belief in a god or gods. There is nothing religious about atheism. Hope that helps.
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  56. He's lying to you if that is his position.
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  57.  @fifacraftcrafthd7557  Why on earth would I want to do that? I have a backlog of 12 other books I'm working on now. What are his main arguments?
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  58.  @fifacraftcrafthd7557  If there is a method he has found that proves a god exists why have I never heard of him? I'm assuming it's because his argument probably boils down to something like the tired old "Look at the trees. Obviously there is a creator."
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  59. Who are the experts? The pastors and preachers? 😉
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  60.  @xgfhhjvjgcgfxcgjbj  Like Richard Carrier? Or do you only mean Christian Historians who already accept that Jesus exists on faith? 😉
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  61. Did he say that or are you just repeating the apologetics you've heard? 😉
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  62.  @rudolphbarton  Link?
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  63.  @rudolphbarton  Poor Rudy, I didn't mean to upset you by asking you to back up your claim. For future reference, if you make a claim and decline to back it up there is no reason for anyone to believe you. 😉 So, well done, if that's what you are going for.
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  64.  @rudolphbarton  Thanks for proving my point. 😁
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  65.  @rudolphbarton  Not my fault you can't/won't back up your claims. 😏
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  66.  @rudolphbarton  who's the victim? You?
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  67. If he had said "Yes, he existed." you would be here saying "Look! Even Dawkins admits it!" But because he disagrees with you he should keep his opinion to himself right? 😉
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  68. Joe asked him the question and he gave his answer. You mad bro?
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  69.  @SmackDab  Like what? Do you have specific WLC arguments you want me to address?
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  70.  @jam4350  I'm sure you do 😉 Nice job avoiding my point.
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  71.  @jam4350  Bahahahaha did a WLC fanboy just accuse someone else of "semantic games?" 😂😂😂 I guess you would know.
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  72.  @jam4350  I'm just playing along with you at this point. It's obvious this isn't going to turn into a discussion in good faith anytime soon. 😉 As far as him being on the podcast, because I've heard enough out of WLC in the past 20 years to last me a lifetime. Why on earth would Joe even want to interview him? What has WLC actually contributed to the world aside from preaching to his choir?
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  73.  @jam4350  as far as my point you declined to address, it was simply that WLC's armchair philosophy is useless in proving his god exists. You must have missed it.
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  74.  @robbyjohnson8435  "Athiest philosophers?" Who are these people? The atheists I'm familiar with that have been on Joe's show have not been philosophers. Even though Joe may want to talk philosophy with them. As far as why he doesn't have more Christian Apologists on, I don't know. Maybe they bore him as much as they bore me. Maybe he should have more Christians, Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Hindus and Satanists on too. It's not fair to them that Joe isn't more open-minded right?
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  75.  @robbyjohnson8435  it has nothing to do with being open-minded. Your religious beliefs are just silly to us. I am as impressed with Christianity as I am with Scientology.
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  76.  @robbyjohnson8435  Why not just go listen to Christian Apologists if you want to stoke your confirmation biases? Why would Joe want to listen to an Apologist like WLC bloviate about their religious beliefs when it would bore 3/4 of his audience half to death?
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  77. That's bullshit. There is no extra-biblical evidence to confirm the existence of the Yeshua in the gospels.
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  78. Obviously
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  79. How do you even know what words he said if he did exist? There are 4 different Yeshuas in the 4 gospels. They have different last words, they give their disciples different directions etc.
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  80.  @mattjbg7025  That doesn't answer my question though. How do you know what he actually said when the accounts differ? Also, the gospels, as we have them at least, were not written by his disciples.
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  81.  @l91106  Yup. Religious folk may never realize they have wasted their lives thinking about abstract concepts like gods and heavens and hells.
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  82. That's cute. Atheism can't be a religion. It has no precepts or doctrine. It is just an answer to the question "Do you believe a god exists?" and the answer is no.
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