Comments by "Harry Stoddard" (@HarryS77) on "Biden Getting Ready To Elbow Drop Student Loans?" video.

It just amazes me how student debt forgiveness and free college were pie-the-sky schemes when Bernie was proposing them. When Biden plans to do them, suddenly they're vital policies that 'pay for themselves." I say I'm amazed, but not really.
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Means tested with a bunch of fine print exceptions.
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@inquisitive.lurker "Waaaaa don't call me a lib!" Proceeds to give liberal solutions to a social problem. Lmfao I don't care what European capitalist countries do. We should cancel student debt.
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@whyamimrpink78 No.
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@inquisitive.lurker Cancel all debt, period, and make college tuition free. No handwringing about "returns on investment." That debt shouldn't have existed in the first place. Neolibs shouldn't have roses in their profile pictures. As I already mentioned, if your concern is that people with some arbitrary amount of money might undeservedly benefit from loan forgiveness, we already have a mechanism to control for that: taxes. If your concern is someone making 100k having 10k in loans forgiven, tax them a bit more. But cancel their debt, too.
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@inquisitive.lurker Dude, just say you're a liberal and ditch the rose posturing (talk about wearing "socialism on my chest"). You've already got the smug, false arrogance, "I'm practical," "I do what works," "I'm an adult" mindset that liberals love to delude themselves with down pat. You favor means tested, individualized, market solutions. We get it: you're a liberal. Why does acknowledging that make you squirm? Why are capitalist European countries (with very different socio-economic and policy conditions than the US) the horizon of possibility? They aren't.
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@UCz-1VAskLs9ZU_Cm2s7jvcw Obviously the way to properly means test the rich for universal programs is to tax them more. It's revealing that Democrats don't take that approach.
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@whyamimrpink78 You didn't even supply an argument to counter argue against. You just threw out some hysterical claims.
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@CosmicL407 lol lib Odd you read that as a complaint about Biden and not a complaint about how the media applies a double standard to torpedo insurgent politicians.
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@whyamimrpink78 That's a claim. It's not an argument. An argument consists of evidence and reasoning to support a claim.
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@whyamimrpink78 Again, those are claims. They're not arguments. To make an argument, you would have to provide evidence and structure reasons for believing your evidence supports your claims. Did they not teach this at your school?
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@-in-the-meantime... I have no idea what that's supposed to mean.
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I'm not sure where you're seeing 50k. What I'm reading is his plan is cancellation for all undergrad (public college) debt and a 10k forgiveness otherwise. Regardless, the average debt is around 30k-35k, so 50k would definitely help the majority.
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@whyamimrpink78 Still waiting for that argument.
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@whyamimrpink78 That's still just a hysterical claim. Come back with some evidence, kiddo.
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@-in-the-meantime... Interesting how much "liberals" today sound like Republicans of the 80s bitching about welfare queens in fancy Cadillacs.
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zaxx19 I've already said, I don't know how many times, the liberal whinge about cancelling debt for the rich and upper middle class is largely just an excuse to means test against the middle class and inhibit, even by accident, but just as easily by design, the lower classes from taking advantage. That's just what means testing inevitably does. We already have a mechanism for ensuring parity between student debt cancellation for the rich and poor—creating a strong progressive tax structure. Now you have the benefits of a universal program (greater enrollment, less stigmatization, less bureaucratic waste) with the ability to defray cost and not simply give a break to the rich. The failure to grasp this simple principle is the result of gullible apolitical people getting taken in by the promise of Yang Bucks on a VAT. Imagine bitching about cancelling something that shouldn't have existed in the first place in order to beg for UNIVERSAL basic income. What Holmes, you want me to pay basic income for the rich? Nuh uh ese!
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zaxx19 Did you pass third grade? It was three little paragraphs. I'll try to summarize it for you. 1) Means testing inevitably deprives the poor and middle classes of needed services. 2) Taxing the rich more while implementing universal programs ensures equality. The rich are paying more than they're getting back. 3) It's ridiculous and inconsistent to bitch about debt cancellation helping the minority of the rich and advocate for a universal basic income. I don't know, maybe four sentences is still too much for you.
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zaxx19 So you can't read and don't actually have an argument...Why bother replying? Don't answer that.
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zaxx19 Oh, you're doing that thing people on the Internet do when, having nothing substantive to say, they pretend their interlocutor is mad. That's cute. Also, lol at saying advocacy for debt abolition is pure fantasy...but muh Yang Bucks TM!
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@capttrips1523 Yes, we should cancel all debt. College-educated taxpayers pay for the things non-college-educated citizens, taxpayers or not, need and use. That's part of paying taxes and living in society: sometimes you do things for the benefit of others. Right now, student debt isn't an "investment." It's a burden. It's the largest form of debt in the country. 1 in 4 debt holders cannot make their loan repayments. Students simply shouldn't have debt in the first place. Their debt exists because over the last 40 years education has been transformed from a public good to a for-profit business, making it an "investment" for individuals rather than a service for communities. Any plan for debt cancellation should be accompanied by a plan for free college so that everyone (or their children) can take advantage of a debt-free college education, which has become, like high school, a basic requirement for many lines of work.
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@capttrips1523 I didn't make that assumption. Maybe you have trouble reading. I referred to non-college-educated people who do and don't pay taxes. Some people without a college education make enough to be required to pay taxes. Some do not. Hence why I referred to both groups instead of, like you, assuming everyone is a taxpayer. Your attitude of treating education like an individualized commodity is precisely a product of the problem. Education isn't just an individual "investment." It benefits the entire community and society. It is a social good. That's why we have free school up to 12th grade. 70-80 years ago, that was adequate. It's not anymore. Your argument that one kind of taxpayer shouldn't pay for services they don't benefit from is totally absurd. We expect taxpayers to pay for all kinds of things they don't directly, individually benefit from that are nevertheless good for the community—healthcare being an obvious example.
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@capttrips1523 People with education and expertise do benefit society. Again, for the deaf, that's why we have free public schools. Over time, as society has advanced, we've increased the number of years a person needs to be in school to get a basic education. Now, high school is no longer the standard; college is. It's very odd that you think performing a public service deserves no remuneration. Of course people who provide for and benefit their communities should be compensated fairly and looked after. That goes for doctors and architects; that goes for teachers and cooks and grocery store clerks and everyone else. Should we make high school for profit? We could rationalize it with the same logic you're using. The public services you listed aren't all that different from the ways socially provided college benefit the community at large. Underlying your criticism is, I think, the market-based assumption that one should only pay for what benefits them. I use roads, so it makes sense that my taxes should pay for roads. That's your argument. But of course I don't use all roads. I only use a few of the many thousands in my county and state. Why do I have to pay for all of them? Because the society as a whole needs those roads to operate—to deliver goods, to convey to work and home people whose services I may need, and if I don't need them, someone else will, in a complex web of mutual dependence. I'm not the direct beneficiary of someone's math or art or education degree, but they contribute to the general raising and reproduction of society. The point is that, like the roads, someone depends on their having the requisite expertise and knowledge afforded by their education, and this constitutes a social good. In a more vulgar sense, college graduates also tend to make more money and pay higher taxes, meaning that the individual "investment" in a basic, monetary regard has a return to society, some of which ought to be the furtherance of education for others.
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@capttrips1523 * sniff * pure ideology Also lol at using "word salad" to cover for the fact that you couldn't respond to a pretty simple point.
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@capttrips1523 lol that's not what a word salad is. Nice try bud.
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@capttrips1523 That's not remotely what a word salad is. And the word you were looking for is "moot." I responded to your points with clear examples in simple language. I'm sorry that it's easier for you to throw out ideologically-grounded "common sense" notions than it is for someone to show why they're wrong, but that's how it is.
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