Comments by "Shorewall" (@shorewall) on "What would a Medieval America be Like?" video.
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The IRL Crusader States made much use of castles to hold territory, and since Utah would be surrounded by Goat herding raiders/tribals, and the Horse Tribes on the Steppes, it would make sense to use them here.
Geopolitically, there appears to be little reason for the Mormons to expand into the Plains, causing conflicts with the hordes. They have a geographically secure location in the Rocky mountains, and are the only real overland route between the West Coast and Eastern America. Except for...Religion.
The Mormons have many holy Cities in the Mid West. Far West Missouri, Liberty Jail Missouri, Carthage Jail Illinois (where Joseph Smith, the first Prophet, was martyred), Nauvoo Illinois, Kirtland Ohio, and even into New York state, where the Church was started and the site of the First Vision.
Much like how the Crusades didn't make sense from a rational point of view, but were driven by religion, there isn't a real reason for the Mormons to fight the Steppe Tribes, except for religion. Hell, St. Louis or Chicago could send out a call for help, like the Byzantines did in our time. And if there is a surplus of young men in Deseret due to Polygamy, Crusades could become part of the religion. And if the Mormons are used to irrigating the deserted Salt Lake Valley, they might see the Steppes as a step up. (sorry)
And these crusades, if successful, could then cause a problem for Eastern America, where they suddenly have a bunch of random heretics from the desert on their doorstep. The Mormons are big on Proselytizing as well, so they could swell their numbers and make allies from weaker powers.
Looking west, they could also conflict with or cooperate with the West Coast trading empires. Once again, I think cooperation should win out. West coast specializes in water transport, and Deseret handles the overland routes, especially if they can conquer or treaty with the Plains Hordes. Then again, religion may queer the deal, if the West Coast is too godless. If Crusades become an accepted part of Church Doctrine, there may be a call to chasten the Heathens of the West Coast.
People don't really know that the Mormon pioneers included a lot of British and German immigrants who were converted by missionaries in Europe, and then immigrated to the Promised Land. So Mormons are very Yankee, with a heretic religion thrown into the mix. Proselytizing and pioneering culture combine for a rough and ready travel culture. And Deseret is in the literal desert, so expansion into new territories would make sense from an economic standpoint.
In Summary, Deseret is a cozy little place, that no one else wants, that would connect East and West (along with the horse tribes). It is defensible, and allows the Mormons to deal from a position of strength with their neighbors. On the other hand, religion and crusading could give plenty of reason for another path, and conflict with neighbors.
But since the Church sees itself as peaceful, there would need to be some sort of organized Casus Belli for it to make sense. Reclaiming the Eastern Holy Lands, and Humbling the Western Infidels all make good sense. And this would be amplified by the Yankee industrious trader spirit. After all, the Protestant Work Eethic is strong in Mormon culture as well.
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@eswalker02r38 In our world, the Mormons colonized Arizona, Idaho, Wyoming, Las Vegas, and even sent a group with the US army during the Mexican-US war, that built a fort at San Diego and Los Angeles as new US possessions, then went to San Francisco and Sutter's Mill and were there when gold was discovered, before heading back to the Salt Lake Valley. The culture is a mix of getting out into the world, and staying close to home, so I think they would definitely have influence and contacts all over the place.
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@ryanhouk3560 I'm thinking more from a Medieval perspective, without telephones.
In medieval times, the "duchies" of England, Scotland, etc. were "kingdoms". And Empires were the Roman Empire, based around a Major Sea, China and Persia, which were connected by land and Relatively concentrated, and the Mongol Empire, which even with their advanced logistics and transportation, didn't last long before splitting into more manageable chunks.
That's all because without electric communication, there is a limit on how much you can really control.
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Why would anyone want the Desert? The West Coast can trade up and down the coast. Unless they want to send caravans overland through the desert, and then through Cowboy Mongol Territory, there is nothing for them on land. And it minimizes their greatest strength, which is naval matters.
They would arguably be better served going even further south to Central America, where the overland journey is short, to trade with traders from New Orleans and the East Coast. Going overland would the hardest and least profitable way to do it.
Especially if they're going to fight Deseret. It might be doable if they contracted with Deseret to take their goods across in caravans. But if they want to fight Deseret, there would be no Colorado River Basin to conquer. Deseret would cut off the Colorado River to make sure there is nothing to take. It would be so easy to deny supplies to any force coming from the West.
The West Coasters aren't desert warriors, they are coastal merchants. I think they would leave well enough alone, and try to find a trade route to China. :D
As for Alexander the Great, he conquered a centralized state, where the people barely noticed the change in ownership during their day to day. And the Greek hold gradually wore away under his successors.
Rome conquered everything it made sense to conquer, which was the land around the Mediterranean Sea. They didn't conquer Egypt, Egypt allied with Rome, and then got merged into the Empire with the partnership and then death of Antony and Cleopatra. The Romans conquered Mesopotamia once, but almost immediately gave it up. And Deseret would be even more isolated than either.
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