Comments by "Clint Holmes" (@clintholmes2061) on "Senate Confirms FCC Chairmen Effectively Killing Net Neutrality" video.
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Sir regarding, "we can certainly have a discussion without calling each other names" Sure we can but I'm going to call people names when I think it is justified. And I think it is a bit hypocritical of you to get pissy at me for calling you a name after you were doing the exact same thing to Bernie.
Regarding, "I am disappointed in him" You want to be disappointed in him? You want to disagree with him on something? Fine. That is reasonable. What is unreasonable is extrapolating that because he did something different than you would have liked then he must be a shill.
Regarding, "BDS movement" I can't speak intelligently about this. I confess that my priorities are domestic. I had to look up what BDS even meant. I personally want the US to mind their own fucking business, get out of the business of other countries and focus on their own citizens but ultimately foreign issues are not nearly as important to me as domestic.
Regarding, "I continued to support him even after he accused Russia of sabotaging the elections" Do you really not think they messed with our elections? I assume they did and don't really even need any evidence of it. That said I also assume the US is fucking with everyone elses elections around the world and don't exactly need proof of this to think so either.
Regarding, "a potential war if this continues to escalate" If we go to war with Russia it sure as fuck won't be Sanders fault and I expect him to be voting against it before it would happen. If he doesn't then you would really have something to complain about and I promise I'll be right beside you screaming for Bernie's head but in the meantime it seems silly to be blaming him for a war with Russia that hasn't happened.
Regarding, "My support came to an end after reading the DNC's atrocious defense in the fraud case." So you stopped supporting Bernie because the DNC was proven to be corrupt as fuck even thou you never would have know if it were not for Bernie. Instead of being grateful to Bernie for increasing your understanding of the world you decided he need be shunned at this moment. I disagree.
Regarding, "but not the DNC" You want to disagree with Bernie on this? Fine. That is reasonable. I don't even Bernie for having to decide how to proceed when it comes to shit like this. I would like to remind you that the establishment is and will continue to do every fucking thing imaginable to smear him. Hillary Clinton and the corporate media are accusing him of costing the queen the election in spite of this. Imagine how much easier it would be for them to make their bullshit arguments if he actually gave them a good way to attack him for being a whiner and sore loser. Americans fucking hate that. Even Hillary Clinton supporters are having an impossible time defending their fallen queen as she whines about her loss. Of course Sanders has actual grievances unlike her but he chose to not give them ammo to use against him. Sanders is all about policy and getting the policies he wants passed. He decided the best way to get his goals achieved is by ignoring this one battle and instead choosing to fight the other ones. You want to disagree with him? Fine. That is legit. But that doesn't make him a shill. Again, he is the only reason you are even woke on this.
Regarding, "letting the DNC get off scot free" Do you really think Sanders getting involved would have changed the outcome of the court case? It wouldn't have. The only thing that he could have changed is that maybe a few more people would have been woke to how corrupt the DNC is. But in all honesty if you don't realize it by now that likely would not have made any difference. You would have been happier. But Sanders doesn't care about making you happy that way. He cares about making you happy by getting the policy he wants passed. And the best way to do that is by not rocking the boat this one time. A good general picks their battles. Because he didn't fight this one he is better positioned to win the rest of them. He is the most popular politician in the country at the moment in part because of how he handled this. That is important because we need him to be so that he can win and get the change we rightfully deserve.
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Coyote regarding, "there's not much to say beyond citing these as times he went strongly against progressive ideals" Nobody is fucking perfect, not even you (spoiler alert). I honestly don't have the ambition to go deep into your shit list. This story isn't about that. I'm looking to address the specific issue at hand.
Regarding, "He never gave more than the Democratic party reason for voting yes, if he even made a statement." I am honestly having trouble understanding this sentence. Are you trying to say he hasn't spoken out in favor of internet neutrality? He has.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBHjfTKfdQs&t=112s
Regarding, "We're not the enemy here, we all believe in similar things, fight for similar goals--and we want him to be real," Ok, nevermind... now I am understanding what you are saying. Still I'm not going back to edit cause I'm lazy and instead I'm just going to go ahead and try to address you here...
Yes. We all are fighting for the same team. And I do understand that some are pissed at Bernie because he hasn't done things exactly how they wish he would. But I am convinced he is our best hope going forward to get the change we need and deserve as a country. The establishment is going to smear him every fucking way they possibly can going forward. They are going to try and use every angle and every dirty trick at their disposal because they fear him. He isn't their puppet.
And there are legit places people can point to. Again, nobody is perfect. You will never agree with everyone on everything. But I don't want bullshit like this to get in the way. This is not a legit place to get pissed. Non votes really are the same as no votes other than for the symbolic message. So I take issue with people blowing this up and pretending it is something it is not.
Regarding, "You know that to be true, so why take issue with me saying that he isn't always on our side when he takes positions that are clearly oppossed to progressive or leftist policies?" Because this is not one of those times. He has always been on the side of net neutrality. I honestly don't know why he didn't vote and I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt for not voting but ultimately is not important that he did. I am not a fan of McDonalds. It is only emergency food and an emergency bathroom for me. I don't need to go to McDonalds to tell them I don't want a BigMac today and if I did that would be about as meaningful as Sanders voting no (not meaningful). It is only important that McDonalds know when I want something and it is only important when people vote YES. No votes are fucking meaningless. So I take exception with those acting as if Bernie sold his soul and that is why he didn't vote. I believe there are many false actors looking to take advantage of the situation to pretend this is something it is not by people who are looking for anything to smear him whether it is legit or not. Almost all the times when people are trying to trash his record it is by using misleading info. That said it isn't perfect. Go figure... he has been in government for some time. But I am convinced he is about as good as it gets and I do trust him unlike I trust essentially any other politician.
I also see him as our best hope for getting the change we need. This country is really fucked up. Our politicians are really fucked up. The 2 major parties are really fucked up. Sanders has the best chance of making things better. If he is elected as a democrat in 2020 he could, for example, ban the party from accepting legalized bribes going forward among other much needed party reforms. Then there would be hope of having a major party that cares about the people rather than their donors.
Regarding, "We've just been wrong before and lied to often" I understand this and I agree. Obama for example really fucked us. I admit to being duped. He gave a good speech. The biggest lesson I think I've learned is follow the money. When Sanders runs a campaign with our money and not the corporations I trust him to see to our interests and not the corporations.
Regarding, "That is not misleading, and the languege I used was not exaggerated." If you want I will go back and look at your grievances more closely. I'm betting there are things in there I don't like. But I am tired and this is already waaaay too long.
Regarding, "not enough to enact meaningful change" I have no illusions that he will be able to bring about sweeping change. Both parties will fight him. The corporate media will fight him and smear him. But if could enact the simple party reform it would be a big start to something better. And even if he doesn't accomplish anything significant I at the very least trust him not to make things worse and, this is very important in my opinion, he can start to win the battle of ideas. Look at medicare for all for example. You know the establishment doesn't want to talk about it. He forces them to. He is single handedly winning the battle of ideas on this issue. We need that if nothing else.
Regarding, "If he doesn't take a stand against the economy-crippling wars" He stood up and spoke passionately about why we shouldn't go to war with Iraq in the wake of 9-11. He was one of the very few to not vote for the 700 billion dollar offense budget. He isn't Rand Paul on this one issue but he is light years better than the corporate dems.
Regarding, "kill or slow the movement" Sanders has done more to wake the country than anyone else in the country in my opinion. He is the only reason most people are beginning to realize the "democratic" party is shit. The establishment is a big ass machine that chews up and spits out most decent people. Sanders has survived it and is currently the most popular politician in the country for good reason. He has fought for the issues you care about all his life... with an exception or two but keep it in context. I am convinced he is the best hope for progressive values but he is going to need the continued support of progressives as everyone else is going to call him names whether he deserves it or not.
Peace.
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Regarding, "this story is about that." I considered the story to be about the FCC, net neutrality, and the vote for chair. Everything in the world is connected if you want to go far enough but I really did not consider this to be about war or foreign policy in any way.
Regarding, "war is the largest and most impactful business on Earth," The military industrialized complex is a fucking joke and I think we can agree it needs to be reigned the fuck in. As much as I can't stand most everything about Rand Paul I would be willing to vote for him for President just because of his ideas of the military. Personally if it were only up to me I would slash the fuck out of the department of offense. Jill Stein was considered crazy because she said wanted to cut it in half. I would go even further. Something like one dollar more than the next highest spending country in the world would be about right with me. That said I confess I am not nearly as well informed about foreign policy as I am domestic. I am no expert about a lot of what the country is doing not that I'm sure anyone really is (by design).
Regarding, "I understand that Sanders has spoken out against some military interests in the past" For me the biggest issue is Iraq. This was immediately in the wake of 9-11 and to me I think it took a lot of balls for Sanders to say what he did on the Senate floor at the time. Now with the gift of hindsight his words were prophetic. He was right about everything.
Regarding, "spreading the Russia hacking conspiracy." I personally think waaay too much is being made of this. I do think Russia fucked with our elections although I don't know for sure by how much or can even say specifically how. I should add that I think the DNC did much more fucking with it than they did. I do not think we are going to war with Russia anytime soon. I am much, much more concerned about us going to war with North Korea. That said I'm not even so sure we will be doing that anytime soon seeing as how they do not have resources to be plundered.
Regarding, "My worries lie with the impactful military decisions he's helped further" Can you be more specific? Forgive me if I am asking you to repeat yourself. I admit there were specifics in your original response to me that I didn't address because I was not looking to talk war at the time.... but now that we are here what are your big issues exactly? There really isn't much that I'm aware of, although I know there are some nuggets where Bernie is not perfect on this.
Regarding, "His votes" Again what specifically are you talking about? I've been of the understanding that for the most part congress doesn't bother to vote on stuff like this anymore. Instead they have been happy to let the President run amok making the decisions to fight their vague "war on terror" since about the time Sanders was voting against the Iraq war and against the Patriot act.
Regarding, "The machine that has..." Sadly I agree. We do desperately need to reign in the machine. I was dumbfounded that the Senate recently voted on a bipartisian basis to spend an extra 80 billion a year on them and most people in the country don't even know. The corporate media wanted to know exactly how crazy Bernie would pay the 53 billion per year for college but they didn't think the 80 billion a year for bombs was even worth mentioning. Sadly the only places where the 2 parties work together consistently are in areas that fuck over the people and serve the establishment. It is depressing.
Regarding, "Nearly all of our problems stem from the military-industrial complex." I understand why you would say this but I disagree. I believe that nearly all of our problems stem from money in politics. To me that is the virus that infects everything it touches. Money in politics enable the military industrialized complex. This country is an oligarchy. There was a great study that showed policy is dictated by what the super rich want and what the people want is utterly meaningless.
Regarding, "They may not be corporatists in the traditional sense," Sure they are. It is all about the money. But I am nitpicking and agree with everything you are saying in this area.
Regarding, "Sanders' votes to continue wars" Again I do not understand this. Again I really thought they have all (congress) gone out of their way to not vote on war since about Iraq and have given the President the ok to do whatever they want essentially unilaterally.
Regarding, "We've got to work with countries around the world for a political solution to get rid of this guy..." I think you would really have a good point if he said military solution. But he didn't. He said political solution. That is how we should be handling bad leaders and bad actors in the world. I don't have a problem with sanctions (although they are far from perfect and not a solution for everything). I do have a big problem with bombs.
Regarding, "those are foul, false words that should never leave the lips of someone who claims to be progressive" I consider myself a progressive and I could see myself saying that. But I guess if you think he his just lying (false)... well I just don't know why you assume he is just lying. Bernie seems as genuine as they come from in the land swamp creatures. Maybe I'm being fooled like I was by Obama but Sanders has been around much, much longer and in that much longer record I see very little to think he is just bullshitting people.... especially when I see how hard the establishment tries to fuck him over... that only speaks well of his character IMO.
Regarding, ""evil dictator" Assad lie" I don't think the US should have done what it did. I do think the US lied to make their case for war. But I also think you are lying to yourself if you think Assad was a good guy. That said there are zero leaders in the world I can say (I hope there are some... again foreign policy is not my expertise) are good guys (or gals of course).
Regarding, "you'll never see a Sanders presidency that decreases the military spending parasite in any meaningful way" I'm not sure how he could do this on his own. As commander in chief he could choose to not us the military how they have. He could refuse to sign big military budgets but it isn't as if the president drafts those bills. Again for me what is needed most is getting the money out of politics... at least for one major party... then that party will represent the people, win elections, and then the military budget can get slashed.
Regarding, "I promise you that centering your entire political awakening on one person or thing that can be destroyed or corrupted is a dangerous balancing act" I do not put all my hopes in Sanders. Rather I see him as the best hope for getting the changes I want.
Regarding, "Both corporatist and military agent must be usurped" I don't feel the need to distinguish between the two. They are both really just about making money and consolidating it for a few to me. The military is just a little more evil because of the killing.
Regarding, "This generation doesn't have..." I fear we may have already passed the point of no return. That said I try to be an optimist but it can be really hard at times.
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Sir Change regarding, "Bernie is the DNC's outreach coordinator, he gets paid to promote the turd of a party." I'm not sure how you can believe this. Bernie's existence has single handedly killed the image of the party. Because of Bernie far more people are woke to the rot in the party than if he were not around. If he is their promoter he clearly needs to be fired. They lost to fucking Trump for fucks sake. But if you want to think this go ahead. I just think it is beyond fucking stupid.
Regarding, "Bernie's remarks on the BDS movement were morally reprehensible" I already said I didn't know what you were talking about. Seems to me it would have made sense to offer a tiny bit of specifics as opposed to a very general smear that is utterly meaningless without detail. Put a fucking quote up there so that I have something I can actually address.
Regarding, "The Russia baseless accusations" You seriously don't think they fuck with us? I don't even blame them really. But I think you sound foolish to think they don't.
Regarding, "w/o tangle evidence is reckless, like Iraq war reckless." Again, if we go to war with Russia... which we are not... you would have a point. Since we are not you sound silly to conflate the two. But speaking of Iraq Sanders was one of the few who spoke out passionately and accurately about why we shouldn't go to war with them on the Senate floor. If you are not aware of his words it is worth watching. And considering he voted against the Iraq war your choice of this analogy is very curious to very disingenuous. If I knew nothing and read this I would be lead to believe Sanders supported that war.
Regarding, "and avoiding to speak about the one that happened in the party he now promotes" Because of Sanders they were fucking exposed. Sanders is the reason they rigged everything. Americans fucking hate people who are perceived to be whiners even when their whining is justified. Is that the last thing you want him to accomplish... some whining that literally accomplishes fucking nothing except making you feel good. You already know they are corrupt. Everyone should know they are corrupt. And again, if they don't know it now Sanders saying it isn't likely to change anyones mind... some people are just hopeless.
Regarding, "if he doesn't challenge an election process that was rigged and is vulnerable to hacking" This is what you want? You want him to fight a battle he can't win and sacrifice his ability to win all the other battles yet to come. That is fucking stupid. I'm not sorry he isn't falling on the sword for you. He can't change all this shit by himself. Leave that to the lawyers.
Regarding, "There are no political calculations when it comes to addressing the reason we got Trump in the 1st place" It is called POLITICS for a reason. Just "addressing" shit doesn't bring out change.
Regarding, "Because the Democratic Party propped up Trump as the pied piper, colluded against Sanders, suppressed voters, limited debates, all while claiming to be impartial." Yup. You should thank Sanders for letting you know all this even if he isn't straight up telling you personally. I'm not sure how you can realize the party colluded against him and think he is their bitch at the same time.
Regarding, "Bernie owes every person who donated to his campaign an explanation for not calling out the DNC's corruption." As a person who donated to him I want him to continue the good fight for the issues I care about in the best way possible. Pissing and moaning about how obviously fucking unfair the election was ACCOMPLISHES NOTHING. Not only that but, like I've already pointed out, it diminishes his ability to accomplish things going forward.
Regarding, "what good is single payer or any progressive agenda when..." I assure you the millions of people without insurance feel differently than you about this.
Regarding, "our election process is completely untrustworthy" It is fucked up. You know how we go a long way toward solving the problem? Get a guy like Sanders as head of the party. You know how we do that? Not by bitching and smearing him. But the DNC and the establishment appreciates you doing their work for them with your shortsighted thinking.
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Sir regarding, "to use Bernie's popularity to herd the sheep back to the fold" This doesn't seem to be working. Their approval is going to shit. People like me who used to consider themselves democrat are leaving the party. I identify with the Green party far more than the "democratic" party but that doesn't mean I won't support candidates I think are worthy of my vote if they run as democrats. People are forever what is important... not party labels.
Regarding, "As a matter of fact they..." I am not, in any way, trying to or looking to defend the "democratic" party. They are a fucking dumpster fire. Ideally they would just die and be replaced with something better. But I try to be a realist. I do not think they are going anywhere anytime soon. I believe the best way for progressives to proceed is by trying to take over the party. That said we need to be working on a plan B and that includes supporting other progressive parties and not letting the "democratic" party think they can take our votes for granted. Not only that but we need other parties to try and pull the "democratic" party to the left. All of the shit you mentioned the DNC not doing was a result of Hillary "winning" the primary. If Sanders or another true progressive win in 2020 real reform might be achievable.
Regarding, "without addressing their massive failures and corruption in 2016" Does this really surprise you? It is our job to point out that their lawyers admitted in court they don't think they need to be fair. It is our job to make sure they continue to fail until they actually represent us.
Regarding, "I am honestly burnt out w politics" I understand the sentiment. They want us to quit. They want us to give up and just submit. Don't let them win without a fight. Politics is too important. It affects everything else in our lives.
Regarding, "we are suppose to lower our standards bc that's what "reasonable" people do" That is bullshit. That is just a stupid corporate media argument by people who are trying to force you pick between a douche and a turd sandwich. That is what sheep do and I refuse to be a sheep playing their game. I am going to continue to vote for good and be willing to lose. The only wasted votes are votes for terrible candidates yo don't want to win.
Regarding, "the party has done nothing to prove their legitimacy" Again I don't care about the party. That said I do care about the country and think the country desperately needs at least one decent party. I support people. I support Sanders because I believe in him. He has been around a long time and in that time he has fought for the things I care about. I'd support him if he called himself a democrat, republican, independent, green, or martian. That said I agree with him trying to work within the framework of the democratic party. Not as an insider but rather as more of a hostile takeover.
Regarding, "have done nothing to prove to voters that they will reform" They absolutely will not on their own. We must force them.
Regarding, "chooses to take political calculations regarding addressing the very problem with the party" Sadly this is the game that needs to be played. You have to pick your battles. In an ideal world Sanders could rail against the bullshit the DNC pulled. But this is far from an ideal world.
Regarding, "This is nothing to brush under the table bc he is afraid to lose support." Again I am a firm believer that the best way to proceed it by reforming the democratic party from the inside so that he can work to reform the party. Let's say Sanders runs and wins in 2020 as an independent. Then what I think happens is both major parties oppose him, nothing of substance gets done, then after he is gone everything goes back to "normal."
If Sanders attacks the DNC like you want they would be very justified in locking him out of the next primary which they are perfectly capable of doing if they want. He has to at least give the appearance of playing ball to prevent this. They literally can just pick their nominee if they so choose and hold no primaries what-so-ever (not that they would... they would at least try to give the appearance of elections... just without Bernie). That isn't why they are so corrupt. They are corrupt because in their own charter they say they are to be fair not take sides (which clearly they did). But Bernie could not have a side at all if they choose. He has to be careful to not give them an excuse to do so.
Regarding, "otherwise he will lose his job with them." Again, more importantly he would lose the opportunity to take over the company. It isn't about working with them... it is about changing them.
Regarding, "there is no evidence of hacking, None what so ever." The CIA came out and said there was hacking. Did they present a smoking gun? Hardly. Do I trust them? Not normally and not really. Still they are this nations spy agency and they said it happened. Again this is a time when you gotta pick your battles. Do you think a lot would really be accomplished if Sanders instead said, "fuck the CIA, they are lying." I don't.
Again I assume, without evidence, that Russia fucked with us. I assume they do all the time and that this wasn't new but rather same ole, same old. Regardless I do not consider this to be important at all. In a country that has lots and lots and lots of problems this is not really important to me what-so-ever. We are not going to war with them anytime soon. This is just a stupid distraction and unimportant... at least it is to me.
Regarding, "BDS." Human are inherently flawed. We all have biases. I for example admit that I am biased in favor or Sanders. I am likely to give him a pass for something where I might not for someone else. I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt where I might not for someone else because I believe in him and trust him. I like to think that me knowing and acknowledging this helps me be critical of him thou at the same time.
As for Sanders I suspect he, as a Jew, is biased towards Israel. That said I have heard him say critical things of Israel as well. "There comes a time when if we pursue justice and peace, we are going to have to say that Netanyahu is not right all of the time,” for example.
Again, I didn't even know what BDS was so, as you can imagine, this is hardly an important issue to me. I care most about domestic issues. On foreign policy I am a peace loving hippie. Sanders record on war/peace has been excellent over the course of his time as a Senator. This comes from a biased guy but I'm willing to give him a pass on some rhetoric that really is not very important (I doubt I'm the only person who has no idea what BDS is), in an area where he is likely biased, and we are not going to be solving anytime soon. I just don't think his comments here are that important but again understand that this is not an important issue to me like it may be for you. And something like this is not going to be nearly enough to get me to change my view of the rest of his record which I consider to be exceptional.
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