Comments by "Clint Holmes" (@clintholmes2061) on "Twitter Bans Progressive Parody Account "Peter Douche"" video.

When did the meaning of the word sellout get changed to "does something I disagree with?" Because clearly lots of people these days think that is what it means.
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I love Jimmy but the one place I disagree with him is on him not seeing the strategy of taking over the "democratic" party. We need change now. We need to win now. This is the quickest and easiest way to get what we want. The establishment is going to try to stop it from happening. The fight is not going to be fair but it can be done and Sanders is in a unique position to do so in 2020. The winner of the nomination holds crazy power. Part of the reason why the "democratic" party currently sucks so bad is because Hillary "won" the nomination and they are going to continue to suck balls until Sanders or a progressive wins the nomination. There is reason to think this will happen in 2020 and after it happens there will be the first hope in a long time that we can get a party that will start caring about the people and not their big money donors.
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Niding I very much agree with that. I consider taking over the party plan A and I want strong alternatives as a plan B. Even if we are able to takeover the "democratic" party I want strong 3rd parties to keep the major parties "honest," and pull them to the left. Getting progressives in office is the priority and I will do so regardless of their party label.
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Niding regarding, "I do share Jimmys worry about Bernie sheep herding people into Democratic party." I don't. I think that nobody has done more to expose the rot in the party than Sanders. Sanders is why so many people have left the party. But he needs to keep them just close enough so that he can run as a democrat in 2020 to be able to takeover the party. Regarding, "the real progressives in Democratic party" Sadly the real progressives are almost non existent. That said I think justice democrats have a pretty good plan to try and start changing that. Regarding, "the overwhelming corruption in the democratic party" Sadly as far as I can tell they are going to continue to be corrupt AF until a progressive can take over the party. Regarding, "we are trying to eject them" Agreed. I'm not trying to "save" the party or live side by side with corporate dems. I'm looking to take shit over and kick their asses out. They can go join the Republican party for all I care since it is where they belong.
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redd regarding, "Berners have been purged." Yup. It was fucked up but I think you are overestimating the effect it will have on the primary. It also demonstrates that corporate dems can be purged the exact same way as long as we win the nomination. Regarding, "The rules committee is entirely establishment. They will rig again." Yup. It is fucked up. It is not fair and it is not going to be until we win. Fortunately for us they do not have enough dirty tricks in their playbook to stop Sanders in 2020.
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danny regarding, "I am certain there is NO WAY to win within that corrupt, corporatist war party." I am not as certain. Sanders, a true progressive, barely "lost" in 2016 after entering the race down 60 points. In 2020 he will enter with the name recognition of a rock star and as rightfully the most popular politician in the country. Even the corrupt party will not be able to stop him. Regarding, "I originally registered with them in order to vote in their closed primaries," Good. Thank you. You should be voting in their primaries. It is fucked up you need to register with them. It is undemocratic. It is wrong. But it is necessary and important. And if you decide you don't want to vote for them in the general then you don't have to. But you should be using the opportunity you have to shape their party. The close primaries because they know how important it is and don't want you to vote in it. Fuck them. What better reason do you need to make sure you do other than the fact that the establishment doesn't want you to? Regarding, "the party has shifted more and more to "the right" and become ever more beholden to big money." Yup but the war isn't over. Thanks, in large part to Sanders, more of the country is woke to the rot in the party than ever. Regarding, "Since they conned me" They have successfully conned lots of people. Obama was suppose to be hope and change but he was same old same old. Regarding, "they will coopt/adopt some of our polices" They are never going to change unless they are forced to change. And the only way they are going to be forced to change is by electing a progressive as head of the party. Regarding, "But as long as we play in their sandbox, all we'll get is sand in our eyes." The sad fact of the matter is that if you want to elect a progressive president anytime soon the only way that is going to happen is by going through the "democratic" party. Sanders give us the best chance of that happening in 2020 for the first time in essentially forever. Don't take the opportunity to try and help him or another progressive because you are rightfully pissed at the party. You don't vote for a party. You vote for a person.
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I agree with what you are saying. I can be very critical of the public but I also agree with noting how many Americans are too busy just trying to make it and stay afloat in everyday life to realize how badly they are getting shafted. There are also lots of people who still get their "news" from corporate media. Ultimately I think Bernie is doing the best he can in a bad situation. He isn't even a dem. People should think this done for a reason. He points out the income inequality. He points out how our politicians represent their donors (and he does so while saying politicians as opposed to saying republicans). He calls for a "political revolution." And does lots of other things I can't think of because it is late to distance himself from the corporate dems. 2020 can't come soon enough.
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W Meito regarding, "the duopoly must end" The only way that is going to happen is by winning. The major parties have rigged the entire game to their benefit. They have insulated themselves from their terrible politics. Let's say the Green party supplanted the dems with the current system.... with the current system we wouldn't have a 3 party system but rather the dems would suffocate and die (which would be ok) but we would still be left with a 2 party system. To really end the stranglehold of a 2 party system the system needs to be reformed. We would need ranked choice voting and other things. It is not going to happen overnight. You have the entire system fighting against it. Both major parties like it just the way it is.
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op regarding, "force the Dems to either support Progressive platform points in order to form a coalition government to get ANYTHING done OR they will further reveal their colors" They would only reveal their colors. They clearly are more ok with losing than with changing. The only way they are going to change is if they are forced to change from the inside. Regarding, "taking them over from the inside is NOT the quickest way to have an impact on policy" Taking them over from the inside is the quickest way to get everything. To start getting the policy we want. To get a major party that represents the people and not the big money donors. To kill the corporate dems and send them to the Republican party where they belong. It all starts by getting a progressive as the nominee. Then we purge the corporate dems and reform the shit out of the party. Ban them from taking their legalized bribes and all of a sudden we start having a party that is incentivized to care about the people rather than being incentivized to care about their big money donors. It won't be easy. It isn't a fair fight. But it is possible. Regarding, "We could get this done by 2018." And people like to call me naive about the "democratic" party. Regarding, "We need change NOW." Yes we do. Regarding, "And the quickest way to do that is to push hard on the Dems with a thrid party that has ballot access." They don't give a fuck about your 3rd party. They are not threatened by it. They would rather lose to the republicans than change. And they know they have rigged the entire system against 3rd parties. Regarding, "MAYBE we'll have enough Progressives to finally influence Dem policy." We NEED one progressive to influence dem policy. The nominee. The party leader. They get the chair of their choice. The chair picks the people under them and so on. Regarding, "if Bernie threatened to go third party it would INSTANTLY create this third party and we would be where we need to be to be getting policy changes." First off I don't see why everyone thinks creating a new party is such a great idea and so necessary. I personally think that the Green party's policy positions are right where the dems and the left should be. There is essentially nothing I disagree with them on in general. If people want to get a new player in the game I think they should be working to build and support the Green party who have the benefit of already existing and having some infrastructure. Secondly, like I've already pointed out, this is going to get you ZERO policy. If Sanders runs as an independent or Green and wins you very well might get ZERO policy. Both major parties would just oppose everything he does (and if you disagree with this I suggest you are not paying attention to the major parties) and they would just try to run out the clock on his presidency until they can just go back to the status quo. If Sanders wins as a dem democrats would be incentivized to work with him. And yes they would fight him often but they would not fight him always like they would if he were of another party. But most importantly he needs to win as a dem so that he can reform the party from the inside and from the top down. That is the quickest way to get a progressive major party.
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He's a democratic socialist but don't let that fact get in the way of you saying something stupid.
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Tiffany regarding, "it's hard for them to be effective." All third parties are going to be plagued by this problem. The major parties have seen to it. The entire game is rigged, not just the major parties internally.
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jewelry regarding, "yet to find a person more worthy of listening to politically than Bernie Sanders" He has done more to advance the progressive agenda than anyone else on Earth. Some are mad he hasn't been able to do it all but he can't. He is fighting the entire establishment. He is fighting uphill against a system rigged specifically to prevent people like him from winning. Sadly things are not going to change overnight at a time when we desperately need change fast. Regarding, "I agree with Bernie that working on the democratic party at this particular time is a better plan than abandoning it" I agree with this but I think the framing is important. I don't think "working on the democratic party" is as accurate and compelling as "taking over the democratic party." Too many people are already paranoid about working with the party. And that is not what I think the strategy is. It is about taking over the party and forcing the party to do what we want the same way the corporate dems are forcing the party to currently suck. It is not about coexisting. But we do agree on everything and don't sell your writing short. I have no trouble understanding your points.
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Regarding, "I can typo and bad grammar with the best of 'em" A person could make typos and use bad grammar and still be better at getting their message across than someone with perfect spelling and grammar. Peace. :)
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danny regarding, "I don't pretend to know why he didn't make it a "Yuge" issue." Like I've pointed out it is not a winning issue. If he made it a yuge issue like you wish he would have what do you think the result would have been? What did he stand to gain? Because so far as I can tell the only thing that would have been gained is that a few people might have been woke. And at what cost? Because I am confident that it would have very much hurt him and his cause in the long run. Sanders cares first and foremost about policy and think he was correct to not sacrifice his ability to affect policy going forward to talk about things people should already realize. It isn't as if he can offer unique information on the topic. Let me try to explain it from my perspective. I think votes were flipped. I think that exit polls were off waaayyy too much compared to election results. But I talk about it as little as I can. It just isn't a winning topic. Sure the people that agree with me agree with me but the people that don't already agree with me aren't going to be persuaded and are are going to start dismissing everything else I have to say. And there are other things that I want to say and be heard. I'm not willing to sacrifice all the other topics I want to talk about to try and convince people of something they are not going to be convinced by. And most of the public isn't willing to even consider the possibility that their "great democracy" is a fucking joke. Many can't even consider the possibility much less look at the evidence with an open mind. Rather they just shut you out and that would have happened to Sanders if he pressed this. In part because he is wise enough to pick his battles and didn't do what you wanted on this, he is the most popular politician in the country and in a better position to get the policy he and we all want. This simply would not be the case if he did what you wanted. It isn't a winning topic. Especially coming from a person who in a position of great bias. Americans just consider it whining because Americans are mostly sheep. Since I am talking about a topic that I generally consider taboo... http://trustvote.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/trust-vote.png http://www.electoralsystemincrisis.org/ https://www.nationofchange.org/2016/07/10/new-stanford-study-shows-serious-voting-discrepancies-favor-clinton/
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danny regarding, "The nomination which he won." That only makes sense if there was actually something he could have done to prove it. There isn't. There was no smoking gun at a macro level the same way there was a smoking gun in the bronx where voters were purged. And even if there was a smoking gun it isn't Bernie Sanders responsibility to be convincing people he got fucked over. That is what lawyers are for. You have as much of a right to make a case as Sanders because it was your vote. You are simply asking him to do the impossible. Regarding, "he (and more importantly, WE) sure didn’t gain anything by his rolling over." First off I obviously disagree with the framing that he "rolled over." But there is a cliche that is cliche for a reason. "Live to fight another day," is a thing for a reason. Falling on his sword for a battle that couldn't be won makes no sense. Regarding, "Then, after acknowledging that you, too believe the DNC/HRC committed election fraud, you write, “But I talk about it as little as I can.”" Yes I did. Did you bother to read anything else I wrote? I'm a fucking nobody who doesn't like to talk about that topic because it doesn't do jack fucking shit. And as much as I think there is evidence of election fraud I also concede that there is no smoking gun. There is only a good case build upon circumstantial evidence. And even thou I'm NO ONE I don't like to talk about it because I know what happens when I do... people shut me out and dismiss me as a conspiracy theorist. But you want Bernie Sanders to give the establishment that type of weapon to attack him? What could possibly go wrong with that plan other than losing the most credible progressive we have and giving the establishment a weapon to attack his cause forever? Regarding, "You’re falling for the “Americans are idiots” arrogance" Am I now? BECAUSE AMERICANS ARE FUCKING MORONS. As evidence of this I cite the percentage of people who voted for either Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton for president compared to the percentage of Americans who voted for a person with a soul for president. If I were going to defend those morons I would cite the fact that lots and lots of them are just too busy trying to stay afloat and pay their bills to realize how much they are getting fucked over and I would also cite the fact that the corporate media essentially brainwashes the population but I still think that in general we are a country of sheep. Regarding, "already KNOW the entire Establishment System is RIGGED" So they know it is rigged and they vote for the establishment? That is suppose to convince me they are not idiots? Sorry but I don't find that argument very compelling. Regarding, "Calling out that rigging, would have served to affirm what people already believed" There is yuge difference between believing the system is rigged and believing in election fraud. Rigging has been proven. Election fraud has not. You are conflating the two and acting if they are the same. Regarding, "Bernie and Jane) insisted they were crazy to believe" What evidence to you cite to justify saying Bernie and Jane insisted they were crazy to believe? Because I'm pretty sure this is bullshit even if you think they didn't do enough to talk about election fraud. Regarding, "Refusing to LOUDLY demand legitimate elections" Again you are conflating completely different things and acting as if they are the same. There is no reason to think Sanders doesn't demand legitimate elections. What you are actually saying is that Sanders didn't accuse them of election fraud. Say that. Don't twist words and say something completely different. Regarding, "Sanders still has the best reputation amongst any serving politician" Only because he didn't chose your plan of action. Thankfully he didn't squander this on a battle that couldn't be won. Or do you have a smoking gun that proves election fraud? Because if you do then you should be using it and taking it to a lawyer. But you don't. And neither did Sanders. Regarding, "Democratic Party is irreparable, as they have proven since the 2016 election." The "democratic" party is a fucking label. A label that is currently stuck to a shit sandwich. But if you can get rid of the shit sandwich it is just a word. I would also like to add that the party has been a fucking dumpster fire for long time before 2016. Regarding, "Pretending, wishing, hoping reality were different than it is will not move us forward." Clearly we have a different idea of what reality is. Because I'm pretty sure I live in a world where Sanders bitching about a less than concrete case of election fraud accomplishes nothing other than destroying him and his cause. And you pretending, wishing, and hoping that if only Sanders would have cried to Diane Sawyer about how he was fucked over it would have made a world of difference, the DNC would have said they were sorry and given him the nomination simply isn't the world I live in.
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danny regarding, "I did expect him to stand before those "super delegates" and make the case for why they should vote for him to BEAT Trump rather than take a chance with HRC" What world do you live in where the superdelegates were going to change their mind? And aren't we the side that is suppose to think superdelegates are an abomination to the system? Aren't we the side that is trying to make the case that they should be gotten rid of completely? Are you intentionally trying to make Sanders look like a hypocrite? The only reason he can credibly make a case they need to be gotten rid of is because he didn't try to use them to usurp the will of the voters. And even if he tried I promise you it wasn't going to do any fucking good. Regarding, "Do you remember the greeting he got at the Convention" Yes I do. Only because he agreed to endorse Hillary before the convention so that they would allow him in the building. All of the peasants had voted. She had more pledged delegates than him. He "lost." He endorsed the winner of the primary like he agreed to when entering the race. All the whining and bitching wasn't going to change anything.
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danny regarding, "IF those "super delegates" had told Sanders and us to fuck off, then I would have no ill feelings towards Sanders." Like 400 or 500 superdelegates came out to support Hillary before a single peasant was allowed to vote. I assure you they were telling you to fuck off then. But you think they were going to flip their allegiance after Hillary "won" more pledged delegates? You can't be serious. I assure you that you are the one being ridiculous. Am I right to assume then that you are in favor of superdelegates? Or are you just a hypocrite?
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Agreed. Bill Maher wants us to forget the fact the primary was rigged because the election is over and we need to move on but RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA is totally different.
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jewelry regarding, "Until Bernie decides there is no longer any use in attempting to infuse the democratic party with progressives" There might be a time for this but I don't think it is now. I confess that for a brief time I thought that time was during the "democratic" convention in 2016. I wanted Bernie to go on the stage and tell them "fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, you're cool, fuck you, I'm out and running with Jill," Half Baked style. Ultimately he didn't and I'm currently glad he didn't. Takeover of the "democratic" party is crazy valuable and because he didn't run with Jill we still have the chance to do it. Running with Jill would have also been risky. If Trump wins Sanders is blamed for it. Shit they still try to blame him for it, it is just that they are not successful at it because he gave them no ammo to use. And if Trump would have won the cause would have been forever hurt. Dems love to blame Nader for GWB but imagine how they would have blamed Sanders for Trump. But there still might be a time to say enough is enough. If superdelegates are used to usurp the will of the voters (like they have never done) I would certainly be insisting on Sanders running 3rd party. But I would cross that bridge if/when we would get there. I don't actually see that happening.
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jewelry regarding, "you left out" I assure you I was not trying to take you out of context but rather I am just trying to make clear the point of yours that I was addressing. Regarding, "until I hear different from Bernie" Clearly I love Bernie and trust Bernie but I will never blindly follow someone. Even Bernie is capable of being wrong and I will say so when I think he is. But this is really nitpicky. Clearly we essentially agree on everything. You must be very smart. :)
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danny regarding, "it'll take you less than the 33 years" I am not young and think we are probably about the same age not that it really matters. Regarding, "you will have had your energy" I'm just happy to still have some energy and am happy to get energized by anything these days. The idea of taking over the party gets me fired up. Regarding, "time" Since you think time is important, how long until you think a 3rd party is going to have a legit chance in the presidential election? Regarding, "money." I can't imagine anyone that donates money to a party. When I donate money I give it directly to the people I want to see elected. Regarding, "The DNC's..." The party leadership is a dumpster fire. We don't disagree on this and you don't need to tell me the ways they suck. I am well aware. That is why we need to kick their asses to the curb and in all honesty I think there is a pretty good plan and chance of it happening in 2020 assuming progressives can coalesce around a candidate. Regarding, "State DNC" What happened in Cali was outrageous. But in the long run that type of shit is only going to cause the people to realize how they are getting fucked over and get them to do something about it. That is but one battle in a great war. And if you want to grip about how your state was specifically fucked over I would be willing to add that having superdelegates "call" the election for Hillary a couple days before the peasants in the state were allowed to vote was also fucking outrageous and clearly designed to try and suppress votes. But ultimately I'm not here to bitch about all the ways they have fucked over the people but rather trying to formulate a plan to go forward. Holy shit I just sounded like Tom Perez. Not good. Make me think I should rethink some things. I don't want to agree with him on anything. That said looking forward is important because we do agree on how fucked up the past was. I'm not pretending the primary was rigged for example. Regarding, "I have NO DOUBT that Bernie won the nomination." I actually tend to agree with you. I question the primary election results. Exit polls indicate election fraud. But one of the reasons why they were able to get away with it, assuming they did flip votes, was because the corporate media was able to portray Hillary as inevitable from the onset. They can't do that in 2020. In 2020 Sanders is clearly the favorite. And if he starts losing states that he should be winning people will be forced to take notice and there is no plausible deniability. Regarding, "The fact that he refused to acknowledge what was happening" That isn't his role. That is ours. America fucking hates whiners and anyone perceived to be whining even if their whining is justified. Nobody is in a more biased place to call out rigging than the candidate who is getting fucked over. That is why it was nice when Brazile came out with the information she did. (She still fucking sucks but i was nice.) And look at how she was attached and how the corporate media worked to dismiss what she revealed. And she wasn't nearly in a biased position like Sanders would be to talk about rigging (slightly biased though, she did want to sell some books). I don't need Sanders to tell me he got fucked over. And the people that still think the primary was fair aren't all of a sudden going to see the light if Sanders bitched about how he was fucked over. Even Hillary supporters had an impossible time defending their fallen queen on her blame everyone book tour because Americans are sheep who are conditioned to think this is just excuse making. And the American public certainly wasn't ready to think that maybe votes were actually getting flipped. At least not without rock solid smoking gun evidence of which there was none. Sadly there was only circumstantial evidence. I very well might be voting for the Green party candidate in 2020 the same way I voted for Jill Stein in 2016 but that is plan B and I absolutely will be voting in the "democratic" primary and think everyone else should as well.
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Eleanor regarding, "then you better make sure new voting machines are in and..." I want more accountability when it comes to counting votes but I think you are overestimating my importance and ability to control such things. I have issues with vote totals. One of the reasons I think we need Sanders is because he is too popular for them to be able to flip enough votes against him without getting called on it.
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Keen regarding, "Fall off the roles," If you live in an open primary state then by all means demexit. But if you live in a state with closed primaries then you damn well better do what you need to do to vote in their primaries.
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danny regarding, "I don't F**kbook" We definitely agree on that.
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danny regarding, "are you seriously this obtuse or just being a troll?" What a lazy and pathetic way to dismiss what I am saying. I suppose this is much easy than arguing that I am saying something that is untrue. Regarding, "...AL Chair of the DNC..." Nobody is arguing that the "democratic" party is decent. I'm pretty sure we all agree that they suck. I'm not sure why you think it is important to talk about why they are terrible. The debate is about strategy going forward and how is the best way to get progressives in positions of power. Regarding, "That's what you want to hook your wagon to?" I don't care about the party. I'm not looking to "hook my wagon" to anything. I'm looking to take the reigns. But since you mentioned it how are the Green parties chances looking in the Alabama senate election? Just pointing out how terrible the "democratic" party simply isn't good enough for me. There has to be an effective plan to do something about it.
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Then you do not understand the system. The major parties have rigged the game from top to bottom to favor the major parties and they have great advantages.
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