Comments by "Helen Trope" (@heliotropezzz333) on "What's the point of 'getting Brexit done'?' | Question Time - BBC" video.

  1.  @justaghoulintheworld  What has your comment got to do with anything or are you just some random Putin fanicer?
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  2.  @gavinbissell8847  They select them to be representative, so they say. I'm not sure how they do it though. Perhaps they rely on people's honesty in declaring their political affiliations or no affiliations. They advertise the phone number and other contact details for members of the public to request tickets.
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  3. If you work out the financial pros and cons of being in the EU the pros, in terms of economic advantage, public welfare and security outweigh the cons. The Tories always talk as if there's only one side to this equation, the cost side of it. Do we really want to drop down to USA consumer standards in order to trade with them? Here's an example of their appalling negligent standards https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/17/health/baby-foods-arsenic-lead-toxic-metals-wellness/index.html
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  4.  Me Innit  Oh yeah? That lefty organisation called the Tory Party that he represents?
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  5. Sometimes. The panel is annoying, but it's one of the few regular forums where members of the public get to put their representatives on the spot.
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  6. Not so. We haven't left yet so we could stay under the same terms as before.
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  7. Where did you hear that bollocks? Was it on this show? I lost the will to listen after a while.
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  8.  @papanino4415  Wow, it's like the kind of explanations adults give to small children.
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  9.  @dnciskkk9037  I can't seem to find any deficit projections based on Manifestos. Labour have shown how they would pay for their spending from taxes and borrowing so presumably they would not break the deficit limit. In the last few years the deficit in the UK has been less than 2% Here are some useful sites. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFXKN6MFz9I&t=15s https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/14430 https://www.ifs.org.uk/election/2019/manifestos
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  10.    Not quite. It's more complicated. Here is the situation for Railways https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-railways-eu-rules-nationalise-single-market-restrictions-labour-a8968691.html and here are the rules more generally https://www.ft.com/content/c00d8684-788c-11e9-bbad-7c18c0ea0201
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  11.  @dnciskkk9037  Don't be silly. Personal finances and government finances are not the same. Sensible governments know that you spend to invest in a recession and save in good times. That's how Germany and Portugal got out of the 2008 crash without a programme of austerity like the UK. If you are investing you have growth and assets to show for any money borrowed. A bit like borrowing to buy a house. It's unusual for that transaction to result in a loss. in the UK. The 1945 Labour government 'maxed out the credit card' as you put it, at a time when the UK was bankrupt after WW2 to rebuild Britain, create the NHS and nationalise industries and it worked. This is for you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZNwdcESn90
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  12.  @dnciskkk9037  Manifesto. A common term around our way. We talk of nothing else :-). They are something people should read, or at least read a summary of, before voting in order to understand what it is they are voting for . Here's one example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rhz4s7m4mk
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  13.  @dnciskkk9037  https://www.le.ac.uk/economics/teach/ec1001/Lecture%20Notes%20given%20to%20Students/Lecture%20Notes%2001%20Chapter%2023.pdf
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  14.  @dnciskkk9037  Britain had lots of poverty in the 1930s and few could afford healthcare. When the war was over and soldiers returned their was a general consensus among the people and political parties that a fairer society was needed including a national health serivce. Even Churchill was promising that in his 1943 speech and 1945 Manifesto (there's that word again). You say investment in the NHS does not create growth but it does because you have a healthier and more productive workforce and also additional jobs that stimulate the economy. The reasons the NHS was a good idea then are still the reasons that it's a good idea now and Americans in the run up to their election campaign are starting to consider medicare for all as a serious issue. After all, just to call and ambulance there costs $2,500.
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  15.  @dnciskkk9037 Don't be ignorant. The term Manifesto is used by all political parties in Britain and many democracies. It has classical origins from Latin 'manifestare' to 'make public'. Your Eton educated Tories also understand and use that term. If you don't know what it is, what on earth do you think you are voting for - hot air? P.S. Have you never seen the Tory Manifesto or do you consider it 'too left wing'? Manifestos are the documents against which political parties expect to be held to account by the voters. Here's the Tory one for you - just to prove it exists https://assets-global.website-files.com/5da42e2cae7ebd3f8bde353c/5dda924905da587992a064ba_Conservative%202019%20Manifesto.pdf
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  16. Yes, it's funny how the Tories can never spend more on the NHS unless it's to hand the extra funding over to private companies, who only spend a proportion of that on patients because the rest goes to shareholders.
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  17.  @dnciskkk9037  We spend proportionally less than the rest of Europe, who mostly have insurance based systems. If we spent the same that would improve things. The left is not in power I remind you, and does not have the power to alter government data collections. It's the Tory government which doesn't collect adequate data if that is a problem. I saw some recent facts that stated that immigrants actually cost the NHS less than they pay in. EU travellers may use the NHS free because this is part of a reciprocal arrangement which involves British travellers having free access to EU healthcare systems. The left is also not in control of immigration as they are not in government. The Tories won't spend on public services and that includes not spending enough on the Border Force that would be the ones to detect illegal immigrants. You are just reading all the bilge spewed out by Tory papers, The sun and The Daily Mail, I expect.
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  18.  @dnciskkk9037 Here are some current controls on drug prices for drugs supplied to the NHS . The rules and limits are set by the UK government it seems within an overall EU framework. However the rules can be changed in the future at any time provided they are within an EU framework and that constraint (which is not much as it just describes a scheme without figures) can be completely abandoned if we Brexit. Also the NHS saves a lot by buying generic (patent expired) medicines which are cheaper than branded ones but the discussion document that Corbyn got hold of saw discussions about US intentions to extend patents on drugs which would mean American drug companies could charge the NHS more on those drugs for longer. https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/w-005-2025?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true&bhcp=1 fber.
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  19.  @dnciskkk9037  Because the Tories will have to cave in to some demands from the Trump administration in order to get a trade deal with him and what they are telling the British public is not what Trump is telling the US public, which is more in line with the leaked document. The Tories don't really care about the poor or the NHS. Dominic Cummings himself has said so if it wasn't obvious to anyone from their ideology and track record, so it will be no skin of their back to concede to the USA on these areas.
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  20.  @dnciskkk9037  The US will be a dominant partner in a trade deal. I don't see Trump giving any ground to us as we will need a deal more than he will. This is from a Metro report on the leaked trade discussions document with the USA. 'The notes detail six preliminary meetings between British and American trade negotiators between July 2017 and July 2019, a few weeks before Johnson became Prime Minister. UK Officials describe the discussions as ‘the first lap’ of talks on a wide range of policy areas they ‘might expect to feature’ in a post Brexit trade deal. The health service is mentioned a few times along with US negotiators talking about the cost of medicine and the possibility of lengthening patents. Once patents expire the NHS is able to buy generic rather than branded versions of the same drug. They are typically shorter in the UK which is one of the reasons why medicine is much cheaper than in the US. American negotiators said there is ‘a lot of conversation’ in the states about drug prices and that ‘looking at what other countries pay is causing angst’. But fact-checkers say there is nothing to suggest the UK have agreed with US demands (Picture: Getty Images) They have concerns the US is ‘not getting a good deal in pharmaceutical industries.’ It echoes American trade objectives published in February which say they ‘full market access’ for pharmaceutical products. This would limit the control the UK’s National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) has over which drugs can be given to patients. ' Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/28/labours-nhs-sale-document-leak-fact-checked-11232546/?ito=cbshare Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/ That's it now. I'm not wasting any more time on a blockhead.
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  21.    It's project look up the facts, not project fear. The people had few facts when they voted 3 years ago. Anyway since you are set on it, no facts will get in your way obviously.
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  22.  @dnciskkk9037  In the US for example, it costs $250 for an asthma inhaler. Do we really want the NHS to move onto unrestrained US pharma prices? That's just a licence to treat our public services as free money they can extort. There's even been a case of the NHS being charged £1000 for a bottle of mouthwash to help treat the side effects of chemo patients. NICE is a body of doctors that examines whether a drug is effective. If you take NICE away we're open to all sorts of expensive drugs that don't necessarily work well. You have a naive faith in Trump's sense of 'fairness' and if we have zero tariffs under WTO rules we can still be charged tariffs by other countries (e.g The EU who will charge our farmers over 40% on their beef and lamb exports to the EU). Patrick Minford who is a pro hard Brexit economist has admitted that zero tariffs under WTO rules will destroy British agriculture and manufacturing as they won't be able to compete with cheap tariff free imports from countries with low costs because their labour forces are paid very little and have few if any rights.
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  23.  @dnciskkk9037  Get an education. I do know about WTO because I looked up WTO rules on the WTO website. What research have you done? Don't answer that. I can't be bothered with you anymore. Just keep your head stuck in the sand.
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  24.  @dnciskkk9037  I do understand the topics I do use my own words mostly but I support it with independent evidence which I link. You accuse people of all sorts without ever having done any research yourself and without independent evidence to back up your claims. I don't think you are even capable of understanding the evidence presented to you. Democracy is not set in aspic. More votes does not mean less democracy.
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  25.  @dnciskkk9037  The Tories have not denied that the document Jeremy has is genuine. It doesn't matter who leaked it to whom. If it's genuine, it's genuine. I'm not going to waste my time anymore because you wouldn't accept any evidence that contradicts your views, no matter how genuine.
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  26. It means letting Boris do what he wants. Ultimately leaving the EU without a deal and if he gets elected on Thursday he'll neuter Parliament, The Supreme Court and the opposition, open up all media to tell lies with impunity, and gerrymander marginal constituencies, to try to ensure no opposition party ever gets elected again. (See page 48 of the Tory Manifesto)
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  27. New Zealand has been doing that for some time. We'd be starting at the bottom with trade deals often taking up to 10 years and in the meantime we'd be trading on WTO terms which is like the 4th division of trading. No country in the world trades on just those terms for that reason. They all want deals but you can bet New Zealand trades with their nearest neighbours. They don't try to import fresh food from half way around the world. Much of our fresh food comes from Europe and will become much more expensive if we hard Brexit out unless we place zero tariffs on it but then our own agricultural industry will fail as it won't be able to compete and at the same time Europe will be putting 40% plus tariffs on British lamb and beef. That's just one example from one type of trade. No one has ever pointed to concrete benefits for the average person or the country from a no deal Brexit. It will only benefit a wealthy elite of corporations and other tax avoiders who want to be free of EU financial regulations and tax harmonisation rules. The less tax, the less funds for public services like health and education.
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  28.  @1jasonmatthews766  What policies are you referring to? New Zealand was never in the EU, so it never left the EU.
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  29.  @1jasonmatthews766  I will have a look for info on the New Zealand economic model, but I don't buy the argument about the power of the unions. The power is always with employers and unions grew just to try and add a bit of fairness and balance by giving some power to employees, so that those creating the wealth don't see it all siphoned off into shareholders and executives pockets. Of course you can sometimes get corrupt unions just as you can get corrupt employers. One good model of union participation is the German model. Guess who drafted the German constitution after WW2? - the British! We already had our own rather rickety model which has never been updated in the same way.
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  30.  @1jasonmatthews766  I've looked. It doesn't look like a great model to me - maybe some macro benefits but not for individual New Zealanders https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/12624/unstable-and-unequal-new-zealand-economy-not-good-model-independent-scotland
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  31.  @1jasonmatthews766  Don't tell me. I lived through it. It was Thatcher who destroyed the coalmines in Britain when she decided to close them down. She didn't put anything in their place either and the North of England is still suffering from that blight today. Hopefully Cobyn's plan to create jobs by investing in green industries will help there. I will look at some documentaries on Germany in the 60s but why the 60s? It seemed to be doing fine in later decades. The 60s is so close to the disaster of WW2.
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  32.  @1jasonmatthews766  I'm still looking at Germany. I see their economic production overtook ours in the 1960s . I'm looking at the details of that. However the lack of manufacturing in the North has other causes. 1) The loss of the British Empire which was a major export area 2) In WW1 the USA took advantage of Britain's difficulties to steal their markets - as the saying goes, 'one man's difficulty is another man's opportunity'. 3) Britain lost its markets for cotton and wool which was produced by northern mills. A newly independent India was a competitor and produced cheaper cotton 3) Thatcher closed down the mines and didn't replace them with anything.
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  33.  @1jasonmatthews766  I'm not sure about the pay cut. I didn't see that but the German finance guy cut very high taxes (85%) even on average type incomes) to 18%. There was also a lot of borrowing and investment (which the UK is bad at doing but which Corbyn proposes). Brtain's weakness in the 1960s was lack of industrial investment in contrast to Germany. In Germany the state was very influential in stimulating growth in the economy. German workers did work hard and worked long hours. They still have a reputation for that and they are well educated and well trained. There is no snobbishness about trades. If they did take a pay cut that may be because they had tax cuts also and with the constitution the British wrote for them, workers representative bodies would have been consulted and agreed the pay cuts. It's always easier to proceed with such actions if workers are consulted and can see the longer term benefits rather than having cuts imposed on them, but as I say the tax cuts may have made up for the pay cuts. It sounds like a sort of social contract.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirtschaftswunder
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  34.  @1jasonmatthews766  Labour's Manifesto is not fairy tales. It's no more radical than the Manifesto implemented by Labour in the 1945 government and if you read (Tory) Churchill's speech of 1943 and his Manifesto of 1945, he was planning to implement similar things (though not all the nationalisation but he was planning to introduce an NHS and education reforms - lots of investment planned). By the way, here's a good idea and one of the reasons many German workers might work hard (even if it wasn't in their nature) https://www.worker-participation.eu/National-Industrial-Relations/Countries/Germany/Financial-Participation/Basic-Data-on-Profit-Sharing-Employee-Share-Ownership
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  35.  @1jasonmatthews766  Which 'People's Party.' There is no British People's Party it seems, only a EU one. That's irrelevant in a British election.
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  36. You want more of this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpj0xeTnqBk
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  37. The Empire ended years ago. All empires do end eventually. You can't rely on exploiting other countries for ever.
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  38.  @ioanpena  Only by consent. They can vote for independence from the UK in referendums. Just because they've voted to stay previously, doesn't mean they will still vote to stay in the UK after a hard Brexit.
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  39. It's the will of the people to damage their own futures and it hasn't been implemented yet. Woe to the politicians who are not ensuring this.
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  40.  John Henshaw  Are you? I wouldn't draw attention to it.
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  41.  John Henshaw  Are you voting for more of this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpj0xeTnqBk
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  42. WTO will be what you get if there's no deal, but no country in the world trades just on WTO terms as it's the 4th division of trading. They all look for deals with big blocks like the EU or other big countries/blocks but these can often take 10 years or more to get. We'll be starting at the bottom and any trade negotiating partners will have us over a barrel because we'll need a deal more than they do. Have you looked at what will happen to the UK under WTO terms - whether we set tariffs or zero tariffs? Not only that, but we have zero experienced trade deal negotiators because we relied on the EU for that for the last 40 years. The EU and other countries have experienced trade negotiators who will wipe the floor with us after Brexit.
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  43. @J Robs We are at the moment but that doesn't mean we can't go into a big recession and we are not as big as some of the trading partners we'll try to deal with. Look at the standards (or lack of) that the USA maintains for its own people. They'll hardly want to change them in order to trade with us. This is just one example. I could add others https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/17/health/baby-foods-arsenic-lead-toxic-metals-wellness/index.html
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  44.    At the expense of the health and safety of its people and with the benefits of growth going mostly to the already wealthy. It's a capitalist wild west.
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  45. Isn't it one of the few channels to allow members of the public to grill politicians, or are other channels also doing this?
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  46.  @rdrhouse  I dunno about that Farage and Labour party members have been on the channel and this show a lot. Farage isn't even the leader of the Brexit party and he hasn't been elected in any constituency so he's been rather indulged in the number of his appearances. I've seen the Brexit leader being interviewed more these days but I can't remember his name.
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  47.  @rdrhouse  Well your comment is ambiguous. Are you saying Labour and Brexit get an easier ride when they appear on the BBC?.
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  48.  @rdrhouse  Yes because I thought I understood what you meant but you then said I was mistaken, so I ask again, what do you mean?
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  49.  @oniondesu9633  At least the audience members get to respond to any answers they get, so they have the last word and can give their opinions about what the politicians said.
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  50.  @alanroberts6059  Oops. I was thinking of UKIP but Farage has registered the name of a new party called The Reform Party, so his future moves are anyone's guess.
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  51. Stop thinking and leave! We can't think beyond that because we can't be bothered looking up what life will be like under WTO terms.
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  52. You know in those Westerns when the 'Quack doctor' comes round to sell snake oil as a 'cure all' to the people and the viewers think 'how could they be so gullible.............?'
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  53.    No, but there are quacks who offer snake oil in elections and Referendums.
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