Comments by "Dylan Vogler" (@dylanvogler2165) on "BBC News"
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@johnsmith2797 to explain it to you in simpler terms, by bringing up a unrelated subject, you are trying to deflect from your own mistakes. Whatever happend in Iraq and Afghanistan, and if you'd actually read my other comments you would see that I am just as much against those bs oil wars and don't at all defend what happend there, has nothing to do with the current situation in Ukraine. The fact that another country has done something bad before, doesn't mean that you can do so using it as an excuse. To give an example, do the Germans, Crimean tatars and many other nations have the right to expel Russians from their homes because the Russians have done so in the past? The answer is obviously no. With your way of thinking and the way you are reasoning it means that anyone on earth can kill anyone else on earth because somebody else has done it in the past.
The use of whataboutism to defend your actions shows that you are incapable of taking responsibility for your own actions. Children are especially known to behave in this way and that is why parents, atleast in my country, often tell their children to think for themselves. A common answer of parents when a child says "but he did it too or but he did "insert accusation"" is :"if he jumps of a bridge, would you do the same?". In other words the behaviour of someone else is not an excuse for your own behaviour. The other person is responsible for his behaviour and you are always responsible for your own behaviour.
So by using whataboutism you are essentially saying that you are thinking like a child.
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@l.s.4059 you're full of hate towards people that have done nothing against you, or your country. Yet you blame us for everything. Even for the mistakes of your own country. We weren't your enemies, you made us your enemy.
You do the same with me, someone who was Russophile since his birth and always fascinated with Russian culture and the Russian language, which I even studied. But I also love Ukraine, it's people and it's language. As I said I have friends all over Russia, whom luckily don't support Putin, with the fact that you call him "world president" being extremely troubling, as this is kinda a bit of Cult of Personality. I am against facism, which sadly is embodied by Russia nowadays, and support Ukrainian independence. I do not which the destruction of Russia, but I do support it being returned to the 1991 borders it agreed to. And hopefully one day we can be good neighbours when you stop trying to dominate those around you and actually see us as equals. Maybe if one day you find your version of a working democracy (as I don't say Western democracy is the perfect way, it isn't) we can actually work together for a better humanity instead of being stuck in facism, imperialism and the dream of Empire. You brought war to innocent people, just for empire.
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@I_am_not_a_bot-s6i you listen to much to Russian propaganda. First off if you mean the promises that were allegedly made to Gorbachev, there never has been a treaty signed with these promises in them. So we will never know if this is true or not. Anyone can say anything, so if the Soviets were right about this, they were naive in this situation. Secondly these promises, if they have ever even been made, were made to the USSR, not the Russian Federation (as it was still the RSFSR within the USSR at that point) and was about the former Warsaw pact Countries. The USSR collapsed so the situation changed. Russia is not the sole legal successor even, as Ukraine also claims to be its legal successor.
An agreement that was actually reached with the Russian Federation was that NATO wouldn't move troops further east than Germany unless there would be a major shift in the security situation in Europe. NATO kept this promise as it was Russia's invasion of Crimea and instigation of the Ukrainian civil war in 2014, that caused a major change in the security situation. Only since then has NATO moved troops to the Eastern flank of the alliance.
Another agreement that has actually been signed and so it can actually be proven, is the Budapest memorandum. In which Kazakhstan, Belarus and Ukraine would give up their nuclear weapons and declare themselves nuclear neutral states in exchange of their territorial integrity and independence being guaranteed by the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States. The countries pledged to never use military means against said countries, unless in self defence. Russia broke this agreement twice. In 2014 and now. With now claiming it to be self defense which is bullshit considering Ukraine would have never attacked Russia. Belarus itself has broken this agreement too with "referendum" in which it ended it's non nuclear status and allows it to host nuclear weapons again.
Meanwhile Ukraine to this day is a neutral and non nuclear state. All it did wrong was trying to have a better future in the west and try to free itself from the Russian world. The coup thing is another of these Russian propaganda things. No my friend, the Ukrainian people ousted a president who only cared for himself instead of it's people. You're allowed to chose your own future as a people and oust a president who is clearly not acting for the good of his state and people.
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@Харликвен bro try to properly read next time. For the rest you just showed to be a vatnik. I it is spoken throughout Ukraine yeah, as I know as I lived there. However it was never a official language of Ukraine, it was considered a regional language.
About the Ukrainian language, there are records of the Ukrainian language from the medieval age. Modern Ukrainian is actually closer to the language of the Rus' than Modern Russian is, as Modern Russian was heavily influenced by Church slavonic and thus the southern Slavic languages. So actually Ukrainian is not derived from Russian. Both are seperate languages decended from the old east slavic language spoken in the lands of the Rus'. Ukraine is indeed part of the ancient lands of the Rus' not Russia. Neither Ukraine or Russia is the continuation of the Rus' both decendents from it. If the Rus' is the parent, both Russia and Ukraine are the childs so to say. Claiming Russia is the Rus' is like claiming Italy is the Roman Empire.
The part that shows you're a Vatnik and just believe whatever Führer Putin says is the part about Lenin. This is a myth, invented by Putin and none of it is actually based in history. Besides the fact that there were the West Ukrainian and Ukrainian people's republics during the period after ww1, there is also the Cossack Hetmenate of the 17th century which can be considered a Ukrainian state, as these peoples considered themselves different from the Moscovites. This Hetmenate came into existence before the Russians controlled even a single Ukrainian territory. Ukrainian statehood, therefore, therefore dates back to the 17th and not the 20th century.
My advise as someone who has actually studied history and got a master's in it, don't listen to the "history" bs Putin says. He is an amateur historian and a very bad one at that. None of his claims are backed up by actual scientific or historic sources. If we lose his logic I can also make unbased claims and call it history.
So try again. Hopefully this time you properly read my comment.
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@StoutProper I agree the sad thing is that Ukraine and its people, pro Western and Pro Russian, have become the victim of the geopolitical game of the US and Russia. Also I agree with you, most don't know alot about the situation beyond February 24. Suddenly everybody supports Ukraine, some even now telling me how it is, eventhough I was in Ukraine in 2018 and 2019. Have many friends there and extensively studied the situation as I used it in my scription for my exams. So yeah annoys me too when people blindly follow media which is biased here too, I like to use multiple sources, both Ukrainian, Western, Russian and independent to find the truth. Most important is to use our own brains, not let the governments let the common peoples hate each other. As it is not those in power but you and I, normal people wanting a normal life and build a family, that die for their ambitions
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Евгения Едалина How Russian of you to blame the victim of an invasion. Which, if we stay true to facts and no propaganda, is in it's core about Ukraine wanting to choose it's own future, away from Russia, and Russia deciding that Ukraine doesn't have the right to do so.
Good thing is that the Ukrainians really don't feel themselves a fraternal people with the Russians so you actually do them a favour by doing so. As they consider it an insult to be called your brother, which is not that weird after all the stuff Russia has done since 2014.
Most of the Belarusian people don't support this war and so you calling them fraternal is just because they have a dictator like you, one that is your puppet. As Belarusians are actually historically and ethnically closer to the Ukrainians than the Russians. The all-Russian nation is a myth (you seem to agree with that actually) the peoples being similar but seperate.
About the Serbs, completely different sub group as they are southern slavs, with the only things that connects them to you being their imperial attitude, them being a wannabe Russia, their irreditism and historical revisionism. They too used pan slavic sentiment to create a state, in their case Yugoslavia, which like the USSR fell apart. They also managed to piss off most of the rest of the slavic world, in their case the southern slavs, whilst Russia managed to get all Western Slavs to dislike them as well as now even an Easter Slavic nation. The most hardline anti Russian states are your own slavic relatives, that must be extremely painful. But yeah we remember 1939, 1968 and 1980-1981.
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Евгения Едалина about the ethnicity even if they would be genetically 100% the same and had the same language and traditions (which is not the case with Russians and Ukrainains) if the people consider themselves a separate nation, then they are. You can't enforce with aggression that another people belongs to you or is part of your nation. This would be like the stalker ex (which Russia behaves like) forcing his ex to stay with her by threatening to kill her/him.
Dutch and Germans are close, the Dutch used to call themselves Germans before our independence. But nowadays you wouldn't call them the same people. The Dutch considered themselves a seperate nation and eventually after time they arr so distinct that you can see a clear difference between Germans and Dutch people. The Flemish in Belgium speak Dutch and have many Dutch cultural traits, which causes some nationalists to call them part of the Dutch nation, but they consider themselves a seperate nation, so they are seperate it is this simple. We actually slowly see the emergence of a Belgian nation. Ukrainians are actually as different from the Russians as Dutch and German people are. They are now building their own state, and whilst I don't agree with all their policies including in regards to language, it is their right to form their society the way they want. If their society and nation wants to be closer to the west and take some distance from Russia, it is their right to do so. This war might actually be what forever cements the seperate Ukrainian nation and society. As often nations are born in the fires of war. This is also how my nation was born. So in the end, Russia, just as it is NATO's biggest recruiter with it's actions, might also be the single largest contributor to the separation of the Ukrainians as a similar people and be the reason of a more Western orientated Ukrainian nation.
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@AirspeedAlive yes I know NAFO, but I don't use Twitter. Yeah, the war changed a lot of us. I genuinely hate everything Russian for all they have done to my friends and family. Never knew "liberators" would liberate you from your home and, in many cases, also your life. I respect you as well, mate. Let's hope peace returns soon to a Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders. When you have the change you should visit your friends. Ukrainians are amazing people, and the country is beautiful. My pfp itself is made in Kharkiv, and my heart bleeds when I think of what the orcs have done to it with all the bombings. If you have the change, visit it, as well as Odesa, Kyiv, Lviv, and many other cities.
Also I am no pacifist anymore, but with all the hate I feel it is better not to join the army. Such hate means I might not be able to control myself and do horrible things. I rather not change into an orc myself. That said if it is needed I will ofcouse.
Дякую, друже і слава Україні! Смерть ворогам!
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@mobiuszero2424 so essentially you say, Ukraine is okay as long as they are pro Russian. They are not allowed to decide their own future, only Russia is🤔. Even if it was funded by the west, the elections afterwards have shown us that Ukrainians want to be part of the Western, and not Russian, world. I think the Ukrainian people have the right to decide this... not Russia.
The reason the revolution of dignity happend is not as much anti Russian as it was anti corruption and pro Ukrainian. The revolution happend because their president turned more and more into a autocrat and he deliberately went against the will of the people (EU-Ukrainian association treaty, which is a whole mess on its own).
I think Russia made this treaty way to much of a deal. Had Russia not intervened in Crimea and Donbass, we might have seen a pro Russian government form after the Euromaidan one would fight with themselves again. This possibility was destroyed by the Russian invasion and detaching Ukraine's two most pro Russian regions and actively lowering the pro Russian sentiment in other regions. After the orange revolution we had also seen pro Russian governments form.
This had always been the case as Ukrainian voters hope everytime to finally find someone who is not some corrupt oligarch, I mean that is the platform on which Zelensky has won the last elections.
Ukraine's largest port and most important Naval base Odessa, is still in Ukrainian hands, so Russia hasn't cut off Ukraine from the sea at all. It's blockade is only angering the UN member states at this point and won't do them favours in the general assembly.
For the rest, even if he would miraculously take all of Ukraine, this war is a strategic loss. Putin has managed to reunite the West after decades of them bickering amongst themselves. He essentially gave the West a external enemy, which you know works wonders as it is what Putin uses time and time again in Russia to distract the population from the Russian Federation's internal problems.
As well as he caused the application of Sweden and Finland to join NATO, and they probably will join the defensive alliance. Even if Turkey would block them, the two countries would become then Major Non Nato Allies of the US. If they are admitted into NATO, it will mean that Kaliningrad is effectively completely cut off from Russia and in case of war it would be indefensible. It lowers the strategic risk of the suwalski gap for NATO aswell and it will improve the security of the Baltic states and Gotland from Russian aggression. It would also mean that Saint Petersburg would be threatend from two sides by NATO territory.
We also see a doubling of the NATO-Russia border and the threating of Murmansk/Kola peninsula and it's important military facilities, which if taken, would threaten the artic port of Arkhangelsk. You would gain some warm water ports in the black sea, but access to the Mediterranean can be blocked by NATO in the Turkish straits and Bosphorus. At the same time it means that NATO can now block the Gulf of Finland because of Finland joining the organisation. Ofcourse Russian ships could be blocked at the Danish Straits before but now the Baltic fleet will be effectively stuck at SPB and Kaliningrad.
This is all without taking into consideration of the fact that a large part of a once brotherly people now hates your people. You lost a state that could have been a bridge between Russia and the West. Not to mention the loss of military capability and human live that Russia has suffered. This all on top off the damage to it's prestige and reputation on the international stage.
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@mobiuszero2424 that is whataboutism and not even correct. My country is a big trading partner of China lol. I have no problem with China. Couldn't care less. I am not American lol.
About Finland and Sweden not joining because of a sudden declaration of war... they signed defensive agreements with the UK, Germany and USA. Which means a war with them which will mean most of NATO joining. Everybody knew this risk of Russia attacking, so they anticipating it.
I am not talking about a sudden blockade. I am talking in case of war. About the blockade, you actually proof my point. Ukraine doesn't have a navy. So the blockade is pointless. All it does is create a food crisis in the world, particularly the middle east and Africa (places Russia actually had some support) which means it damages it's own reputation and strategic position by maintaining this blockade as people won't forget who caused this food crisis.
Also I am not saying that the current geopolitical situation is entirely Russia's fault. I think Ukraine has been a pawn used in the geopolitical game between Russia and the US. However the current war is, they decided to attack, nobody else.
About the politicians being anti Russian no not really. Pro Ukrainian and Pro EU is not the same as anti Russian. This is what the Russians have made this situation though. I think most Ukrainians, before the war, had been against what the modern Russian Federation under Putin stands for. The corruption, poverty etc. So they want to join the West. It's more the Russian world they didn't want than necessarily Russia itself. This obviously changed after 2014.
About Zelensky, well they choose him, just like how the Americans choose Trump. It's democracy. You can agree with it or not, be he is their president. I think to me it shows they were done with the established political elite in Ukraine.
Russia won't attack the Finns or Swedes. Regardless of the fact that they're in NATO or not. Finland's military is much more capable than Ukraine's. Not to mention the fact that culturally Sweden and Finland are very close to Germany and Western Europe. You have seen the reaction of the West when slavic Ukraine was attacked, now imagine Nordic/Germanic Sweden and Finland being attacked..
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@luckyluke1503 you are Russian aren't you hahaha. You repeat the Russian propaganda lines over and over. You seem not to have a mind of your own but just be a parrot of the Kremlin. Then again Russians never have learned to think for themselves, it's been like this since the Czars of old.
About Serbia, well bad move to intervene without UN approval, especially since it set a precedent. NATO intervened to stop the genocide on the Albanian population in Kosovo, which I am sure you are aware of yourself. Yet it did result in territorial change and this excuse is now twisted by Russia everytime they want to invade someonr. About Libya, bad man but economic reasons behind the intervention. This governments partaking in them have all been voted out of government by now and I think nobody would disagree with saying what we did was not smart and shouldn't have been done.
Because we actually take responsibility for our actions instead of you Russians always blaming the others. It's always the Americans, the West, now the Ukrainians but it is never the fault of Russia. Ohw poor Russia always the victim🤮.
The biggest difference between NATO interventions and Russia's invasions are well that NATO doesn't invade other countries and annex parts of their countries. The dead Russia has brought to Ukraine, I remind you a formerly brotherly nation, is unprecedented. Stop playing the victim and actually take responsibility for your own actions. For once the Russian people should stop behaving like children. Are you guys actually corrected by your parents if you point to others when you do something stupid? My mom would tell me "so if somebody else jumps of a bridge, would you do so too?" and that only I am responsible for my own actions, nobody else. Currently Russia is occupying and has annexed lands from Ukraine both directly and through its proxies in Donetsk and Luhansk, is occupying lands for decades in Georgia (even a former ally in the Commonwealth of Independent States) through its proxies Abkhazia and South Ossetia, with South Ossetia soon to be annexed if Russia gets it's way and has been occupying ,through its proxy Tranistria, territory of Moldova, a neutral country.
Considering you are listing the mistakes of NATO let's also include Chechnya and the horrors that Russia brought on that people trying to use their right of self determination, something Russia now keeps saying in regards of Donetsk, Luhansk, Abkhazia and South Ossetia
P.S. before you start about Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq those were American invasions, not NATO interventions, most allies were against the actions taken there and didn't support the invasion.
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@tonyatgoogle6076 I have not been to Ukraine? Where do you think my profile picture was made 🤡🤡. If you have actual knowledge of the country, outside of propaganda, you'd easily know which city is, hint your orc countrymen failed miserably taking it Although, whilst claiming to protect Russian speakers, you keep shelling this Russian speaking city. "Vast territories in the East" Donbass is only a small part in Ukraine mate. They excluded themselves from the elections by declaring independence, you're really a clown. Russia made the country so Pro Western and detaching Crimea and Donbass made a Pro Russian government impossible. This is Russia's own fault. To quote a friend from mine "we used to vote for the guy that was the least of an a**hole, be they Pro Russian or Pro Western they were the puppets of the oligarch anyway". The Pro Western government would have failed in their promises and we would have seen a Pro Russian government, as this also happend after the orange revolution. But Russia's actions, annexing Crimea and instigating the Donbass war, made this impossible. Donbass allowing to vote wouldn't have changed the results at all as even traditionally pro Russian regions, voted pro Western after 2014. Maybe actually really go to Ukraine instead of believing all the Kremlin propaganda.
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@tonyatgoogle6076 I know that Iraq was about oil as well as removing Saddam so they fabricated a casus belli. Not unlike Russia has done now. I know Libya was about French oil interests actually. About Syria, that's one complicated mess, I wouldn't know enough about it to be completely honest. I do know the result in the form of Aleppo. I don't blindly follow any media, although there is more independent media in the west, which are often more reliable, they are obviously still biased. I am blessed with speaking multiple languages and therefore I am able to see multiple sources )) the Russian sources are a lot less reliable now due to independent media being shutdow. Any state media is biased. As anyone would also understand about BBC for example and even FreeEurope that is sponsored by the Americans. However, Russian state media is currently in a league of its own. I do have the luck to know alot of people in Ukraine, including my best friend, and also people in Russia. Some supporting and some against the war. What I saw is that with the people supporting the war there is this, well almost paranoia of the West. To the point it is unreasonable. You shouldn't forget either that the West =/= the USA. My country and yours have a history together. Your flag is even based on ours, as well as Peter the Great having lived her for a while. I can say from experience that Russia has been more obsessed with the West than the other way around. I can't speak about the Americans, but in my country Russia was hardly in the news and hardly ever discussed.
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@EinieN J Belarus in Russian and Belarusian, you know their languages, means White Rus' or White Ruthenia as its Latinzed form. which isn't the same as White Russia which would be Byelorossiya. So yeah what you Finns call them doesn't mean much to be honest. We call France, Frankrijk as do the Germans (Frankreich), which means the realm of the Franks, which isn't the case either. Another perfect example is Greece being called as such, which comes from Latin Graecia instead of the Greek Hellas.
Hell a majority of countries calls the Netherlanders "Holland" which is wrong too. As the country calls itself Nederland (best translation Netherland(s)) and Holland is just a historical region now comprised of 2 of the 12 Provinces of the country.
White Rus' is a reference to one of the tribes/regions of the Rus' ,the medieval state in what is now Ukraine, European Russia and Belarus. Part of modern day Ukraine used to be called Red Ruthenia, which would be Red Rus', in the middle ages as well. So what the name refers to is their ancient ancestor and that they are a decedent from it. It has nothing to do with modern Russia.
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@makc3383 lol yes someone specialized in Ukrainian and Russian history, is not aware of the conflict. The fact that you call Ukrainians inhumans says how much Russian propaganda poisoned your mind. If your ancestors, who fought side by side with their Ukrainian brothers, would hear this, they would be disgusted. Ukrainians, for that matter everyone, is the same my friend. All humans just want to be able to have a good life. Friends, family, roof above their heads, food etc. The idea that we should be enemies, or the others are inhumane are things in human psyche. We against them way of thinking. This is a bad thing. Because again, all humans are fundamentally the same. No matter what political view or gender identity someone may have. And if you believe the nazi narrative, please stop letting your mind me poisoned. This is also the reason Germans did the most horrendous things to the Russians, because they too thought the Russians were untermenschen, and suddenly killing them wasn't killing your fellow humans. This is a very dangerous way of thinking and leads to dark and twisted acts.
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