Comments by "Dylan Vogler" (@dylanvogler2165) on "Sole survivor of Russian firing squad escaped execution by playing dead - BBC News" video.

@Realist369 and when you speak about the person having been burned alive in Odessa, will you also point to the pro Ukrainian activists killed in for example Crimea by Pro Russian demonstrators. You also fail to mention that in Odessa, the Pro Russians also threw patrol bombs and shot at the Pro Ukrainian crowds outside. The point I am trying to make is that during the 2014 turmoil, mostly orchestrated by their "friend" Russia, both sides were equally horrible. But as a true Russian you twist the facts and blame everything on the other side. Because Russia is the eternal victim and it will never take responsibility for any of its actions. Case in point MH-17.
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@johnsmith2797 to explain it to you in simpler terms, by bringing up a unrelated subject, you are trying to deflect from your own mistakes. Whatever happend in Iraq and Afghanistan, and if you'd actually read my other comments you would see that I am just as much against those bs oil wars and don't at all defend what happend there, has nothing to do with the current situation in Ukraine. The fact that another country has done something bad before, doesn't mean that you can do so using it as an excuse. To give an example, do the Germans, Crimean tatars and many other nations have the right to expel Russians from their homes because the Russians have done so in the past? The answer is obviously no. With your way of thinking and the way you are reasoning it means that anyone on earth can kill anyone else on earth because somebody else has done it in the past. The use of whataboutism to defend your actions shows that you are incapable of taking responsibility for your own actions. Children are especially known to behave in this way and that is why parents, atleast in my country, often tell their children to think for themselves. A common answer of parents when a child says "but he did it too or but he did "insert accusation"" is :"if he jumps of a bridge, would you do the same?". In other words the behaviour of someone else is not an excuse for your own behaviour. The other person is responsible for his behaviour and you are always responsible for your own behaviour. So by using whataboutism you are essentially saying that you are thinking like a child.
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@Realist369 Considering I am a Dutchman who lost people on the plane, I think I know more about this subject than a Russian having grown up full of propaganda. Then again Russians have never been known to be able to critically think. MH-17 has been shot down by Russian backed separatists. This is fact. We can discuss about a partial responsibility about the downing for Ukraine considering the fact they still let airliners fly over this territory. Had Russia for once in its existence actually taken responsibility for its actions and said it was an accident and they would have helped, the world would have respected them for it. As mistakes happen. But Russia once more plays the eternal victim and blames anything on everyone else but itself. Which, if you would have been rationally thinking, would have raised the following questions "why, if Russia is innocent, do they actively work against the investigation?" And "what would Ukraine have to gain from shooting down this plane above separatist territory?" Especially considering the separatists didn't have a airforce at that moment and Ukraine would only stand to lose. But I bet you are one of the persons that say Ukraine one going to attack Donbass whilst there were 200.000 Russian troops on their border. Clearly incapable of understanding Ukraine had years to "invade" Donbass and would not wait before Russia masses 200.000 troops on its borders before doing so. That makes 0 sense to someone actually using it's own brain.
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@MDpart2 the power of whataboutism is strong in you
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@StoutProper but what happend in Odesa was horrible. 48 dead people of which 42 pro Russian, most of them died from the trade house fire (I have been there few years later btw). Others died of gun fire, stabbing, and molotov cocktails. Ukrainians killing Ukrainians because of the geopolitical games of larger nations
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@johnsmith2797 lol no. Definition of it Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in "what about…?") denotes in a pejorative sense a procedure in which a critical question or argument is not answered or discussed, but retorted with a critical counter-question which expresses a counter-accusation. From a logical and argumentative point of view it is considered a variant of the Tu-quoque pattern (Latin 'you too', term for a counter-accusation), which is a subtype of the Ad-hominem argument.
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@StoutProper no not propaganda, my own personal experiences. I have Russian friends and I love them. I don't say Russians are bad people, but this is a national trait which is a flaw. Just as Dutch people are considered rude for their directness. I just pointed to a national flaw, I am also well known with the good traits, as my friends are indeed all loving, but they do have the tendency to avoid responsibility for their own actions, blaming others and playing the victim. I would send you a link but yt blocks it. I can send you the name of the articles instead if you'd like.
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@StoutProper I agree the sad thing is that Ukraine and its people, pro Western and Pro Russian, have become the victim of the geopolitical game of the US and Russia. Also I agree with you, most don't know alot about the situation beyond February 24. Suddenly everybody supports Ukraine, some even now telling me how it is, eventhough I was in Ukraine in 2018 and 2019. Have many friends there and extensively studied the situation as I used it in my scription for my exams. So yeah annoys me too when people blindly follow media which is biased here too, I like to use multiple sources, both Ukrainian, Western, Russian and independent to find the truth. Most important is to use our own brains, not let the governments let the common peoples hate each other. As it is not those in power but you and I, normal people wanting a normal life and build a family, that die for their ambitions
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@StoutProper it was not whataboutism as it is perfectly related to the subject we were talking about. As I directly pointed to the fact that what you say is a half truth. Which fair enough is a Russian cultural trait. Nor did I justify their actions, you should read more closely in which I pointed out the fact that both sides were nasty. That doesn't mean that what happend, again ON BOTH SIDES is okay. The difference between me and you, a Russian, is that I don't play the enternal victim. I acknowledge the fact that what happend in Odessa is tragic, on both sides. You however play the victim again and blame everything on one party, which was not the case at all. I won't blame Russia or the Russian backed separatist for everything but nor were the Ukrainians solely responsible. There were two parties actually responsible for the shit that happend there. Considering the last part, that is tragic and the sad result of hate between peoples. The results of geopolitical games. But no it wasn't whataboutism as it was directly related to the point I was trying to make.
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@StoutProper I don't agree about the Mexico part considering civilians casualties. There was a huge backlash on the US for Libya, Afghanistan and Iraq. In Vietnam when news came out of the civilian casualties because of the napalm bombings, it started to put more and more pressure on the US government. In my country a pilot bombed a weapons depot but in doing so blowing up an entire neighbourhood killing alot of civilians, his superior was put on trial as they could have known this happend and it was unnecessary civilians dead. How the people in the US would react on it, I can't judge, but I doubt Europeans would be happy with that. About the war itself, yeah I agree that about that the reaction would be milder as the US can kinda act with impunity in the Americas.
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@StoutProper the ICJ wanted to prosecute American soldiers. I would advise you to read about the "the Hague invasion act" that was signed under Bush. It created an outrage in the Netherlands and is the reason why American soldiers have not been prosecuted. About the sanctions, I already agreed with you, that the west would not have reacted that way. This is because we're allies, we don't agreed with it, but we can't sanction them, especially considering our reliance militarily on them.
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@StoutProper before the invasion my best friend, a Ukrainian asked me "as a historian Dylan, do you think there will be war?" My reply was "it feels awfully alot like the tention before the German invasion of Poland or the Austro-Hungarian invasion of Serbia, I think there will be war in 2 weeks". Sadly my prediction came true. To me it feels alot like we are all gearing up to total war again and that Ukraine is just the prelude. I hope I am wrong about this.
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@Realist369 first off whataboutism. Two wrongs don't make a right. Was the shelling of civilians in Donbass terrible? Yeah obviously it was eventhough the Ukrainians tried to get their land back, attacks on civilians should always be avoided. However that doesn't give the Russians a justification to do the same, especially since the Russians have gone more than a few steps further than that. So in your twisted mind I have, because I lost a friend to Russian attacks on civilians, the right to go kill Russian civilians? Even more broadly, so because NATO is an ally of Ukraine, does NATO now have the right to execute Russian civilians? Bomb their cities to the ground? As the way you think is the way down a vicious circle that will end in the destruction of mankind. The Russian actions are warcrimes, and there is no excuse for it. The people in Bucha for example had nothing to do with any potential shelling in Donbass. I hope you will never find yourself on the end of a Ukrainian or European/American gun barrel of a guy who thinks the same as you mate.
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@MDpart2 lol no I reacted like this because your argument is that of a child. "But mom he did it too!". In my country if somebody reacts like that, the response will be "so if somebody else jumps of a bridge to his death, does it mean you do it too?". In your logic we can all go kill people, because somebody else has also done it. Your argument has literally nothing to do with the current situation, nobody denies that Iraq and Afghanistan (Libya and Syria too btw) were huge mistakes and innocent lives were lost for nothing. But it has literally nothing to do with what the Russians do now and doesn't mean they have an excuse to do so. Again do you think everybody should just be allowed to break the law and also kill people just because others have done so in the past?
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@johnsmith2797 For the good of humanity, I hope you never have children. Again I advise you to read my other comments, I don't defend the American oil wars at all. But unlike you I have the mental capability of separating subjects. If you want to discuss the oil wars, I will tell you my opinion on that. Including the fact that happend there was illegal, Bush is a war criminal that ignored the UN and war crimes have been committed there. However nothing about this changes anything about the fact that was Russia does right now is horrendous, are war crimes and the country should be punished for it.
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@thomasmedeiros7781 only does unable to see the mistakes of their own country would deny the US has done horrible things. Doesn't change what happens now in Ukraine is horrible
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@Realist369 the nazi's in Ukraine argument is laughable. Are their nazis in Ukraine? Without doubt, every country has them. But you are aware that if Ukraine would have been a nazi or facist country, they wouldn't have had free elections with different presidents rising to power. A government dominated by nazis or facists have a single strong man leader dominating politics. Rulling for multiple years and not allowing free elections. To burst your bubble, that description suits Russia more than Ukraine. Then again I bet you have never been outside Russia, never actually seen Ukraine or any other nation you have such opinions on. Had you actually been in Ukraine and spoken to the common people, you would have seen that the Kremlin narrative on Ukraine is false.
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@johnsmith2797 by specifically targeting civilian areas? Obviously. Doesn't matter if someone is Russian or Ukrainian (or American), specifically targeting civilians who just try to live their lives, don't care about the politics and just want to raise their families is a warcrime. The fact they don't show this in western media, doesn't mean it didn't happen, I have seen the images. However the Ukrainian civilians have had nothing to do with those attacks on civilians in Donbass. It should not be used as an excuse to now attack Ukrainian civilians. I hope those that killed the woman on the street in Donbass, forgot her name, is either killed or will be trialed for warcrimes. But using this as an excuse will lead to a vicious circle which will end in the dead of all of us. Because now Ukraine is also starting to specifically target civilian areas in the border regions in Russia. As a response to Russia specifically target their civilians. So Russian civilians die too. Russia will retaliate, might hit a foreigner, that country might think like many think here and target the Russians and before we now it has spiralled beyond anyone's control.
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@StoutProper also I can show you evidence of the whole story in Odessa. As I don't deny what you say happend, those people did die in that building that was put on fire and there is no excuse for this. But you should tell the whole story, not an excuse but it also shows it was not a one sided murder show. It shows it was a civil conflict with two aggressive sides.
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@StoutProper the Yemen part is whataboutism btw, but I will answer on it as I consider it a fair question from you. I think it's total bs we don't hear anything about it. Regardless of the counties involved (I believe Saudi Arabia and Iran too), it's horrible but sadly is an example of the nature of humankind. That which is close to us is more important for us. Is it fair? No because human life is just as important in Yemen as in Ukraine. This is sadly just how the human brain works. Europeans will care more on a war in Europe, people from the Middle east more about Middle easter wars and Africans more about African wars. This is sadly the truth.
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@StoutProper from both sides, I have lost friendships with Russian friends for saying "the world is crazy with this war right now". Only to get a whole tantrum about Europe, getting all the Kremlin propaganda points and that all Ukrainians are nazis. To which I obviously respond, which I shouldn't. But I have also seen it the other way, the image of all Russians being these evil people and complete followers of Putin. People hating Russians for being Russian. This image of all Ukrainians being saints and all Russians being devils, which is ofcourse bs too. People should be judged on their actions, not their nationality or the color of their skin
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@StoutProper the dead in Yemen obviously not being an excuse for the dead in Ukraine btw. It both shouldn't happen.
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@SwingEzzZZ luckily I am not American. Also I agree with you on that, the Americans have a tendency to behave like that yeah. So what was your point?
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@SwingEzzZZ 🤦‍♂️🤣
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@SwingEzzZZ American and Russian. There is not one side to blame for this entirely.
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@SwingEzzZZ not a coup, a revolution. The terminology you use shows what kind of sources you use. Those are not unbiased. For the rest it's just speculation. I for one think the Ukrainians had the right to oust a president who annulled constitutional amendments through the constitutional court by pressuring said judges among other acts of corruption. He went against the will of the majority of the people and it started as just protests, the way he responded to it turned it into a revolution. Russia could have kept its calm instead of flooding Donbass with weapons and annexing Crimea. By separating Crimea and Donbass from Ukraine, they made in virtually impossible for pro Russian candidates to ever become elected again whilst before there was this balance. Chances are the Pro western government would have fucked up, they always did just like the pro Russian ones, and that the people would have voted for a pro Russian government next, this was kinda the circle in Ukraine. Russia itself made that impossible. Even more so now. If the Revolution of Dignity (Euromaidan) was orchestrated by the Americans, a very big if btw, then the Russians cemented its results with their actions. Both sides are to blame for this mess and the separatists are just pawns for the Russians, nothing but cannon fodder.
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