Comments by "Jim Werther" (@jimwerther) on "Failure at the Fence (full documentary) | FRONTLINE + @WashingtonPost" video.
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@aam6290
You are badly misinformed/misled.
The land was divvied up by the British based upon the population percentage of the time. Each time the Arabs said no, the British offered more, and yet each time the Arabs still declined. Which makes you wrong twice, just on that one score: Both percentages and context. Percentages as explained, and context because the most useful and desirable parts of the land were offered to the Arabs, but still they would not agree.
Are you forgetting about the parts of the British Mandate which became Jordan and other countries?
Your use of the term "Palestinian land", as in "giving Palestinian land to Zionists", shows that you lack basic understanding of history. What exactly is "Palestinian land"? When you write "Palestinian", is that a stand-in for "Arab"? I really hope not. If by "Palestinian" you mean the country of Israel as it was then known, then are you ignoring Transjordan and the rest of the area?
Bill Clinton said that he couldn't believe that Arafat was so foolish as to reject such a good deal that he was offered at the end of Clinton's presidency. It was reported later that Arafat said that he couldn't accept the deal, despite pressure from powerful Muslim governments, because he figured he would get assassinated back home for officially giving up on getting back every inch of Israel.
Meanwhile, Hamas openly says these days that their goal is to capture Israel and kill every Jew, along the way to taking over the entire planet and committing it to Sharia law.
And you expect Israel to deal with this nonsense? Israel has tried repeatedly to work out a two state solution, but it has been rejected out of hand every time by the people who want to genocide all Jews, and also take over the world. Any reasonable person aware of the basic facts would not expect Israel to even attempt to work with these people under the circumstances, any more than the Allies did with Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany in WWII or the US did with Al-Qaeda after the 9/11 attacks. The only reasonable goal is the utter annihilation of the side of evil, after which we can discuss building up the remnants with another Marshall Plan.
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@hanfy130
Legal journals have written as follows:
"Applied to the case of Israel, uti possidetis juris would dictate that Israel inherit the boundaries of the Mandate of Palestine as they existed in May, 1948. The doctrine would thus support Israeli claims to any or all of the currently hotly disputed areas of Jerusalem (including East Jerusalem), the West Bank, and even potentially the Gaza Strip."
The fact is that Jews have lived continuously in Israel for well over 3000 years. The claim that the Jews usurped Arab land is simply without basis. Britain's Balfour Declaration of 1917 recognized that both Jews and Arabs had been living in the area in recent years, which led to several attempts to divvy up the land. Every version was accepted by the Jews, every one rejected by the Arabs. And then the Arab states got together to "push Israel into the sea" as they put it, in 1948 and 1967 and 1973, and failed each time. Then Egypt agreed to a peace treaty with Israel in the late 1970s, a major step forward, and other states eventually followed. Not all, of course - the Muslim Brotherhood (Iran, Hamas, al-Qaeda, ISIS, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, etc.) still swears that their goal - essentially their only goal - is the elimination of Israel, the elimination of all Jews, and eventually taking over the planet for Islam and installing universal Sharia Law.
One of the sources of confusion is the term "Palestinian", and references to "Palestine". What is now called Israel was called Palestine 100 years ago, but it was called Israel thousands of years ago. When the PLO terrorist group wanted to push the false narrative in the 1960s that the Jews had removed the Arabs from their land, they renamed some Lebanese, Syrians, Egyptians, and Jordanians as "Palestinians", as if they had been in "Palestine" before the Jews pushed them out. It was a claim made up out of whole cloth.
Walid Shoebat, a former Muslim terrorist who at that time lived in the area that became known as the "West Bank," (another invented term) said "how can I go to bed as a Jordanian one day, and wake up the next day as a Palestinian?"
Then-PLO Executive Committee member Zahir Muhsein, in a 1977 interview, said: "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality there is no difference between Jordanians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for our political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since the Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct ‘Palestinian people,’ to oppose Zionism.”
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Israel is not occupying anything.
Israel was never and has never been indigenous Arab land. Look at a map of Arabia; Israel is not there.
The term "Palestinian" is false, recently made up for political purposes.
The PLO invented the term "Palestinian" in the 1960s. It is utterly bogus.
Walid Shoebat, a former Muslim terrorist who at that time lived in the area that became known as the "West Bank," (another invented term) said "how can I go to bed as a Jordanian one day, and wake up the next day as a Palestinian?"
Then-PLO Executive Committee member Zahir Muhsein, in a 1977 interview, said: "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality there is no difference between Jordanians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for our political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since the Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct ‘Palestinian people,’ to oppose Zionism.”
There are many, many more quotes like that. 60 years ago, there was no term "Palestinian" to refer to Arabs living in Israel.
Jews have been living in Israel for thousands of years continuously.
When the British mandate was rolling to a close early in the 20th century, they sought to give land to both Jews and Arabs. The Jews accepted every offer. The Arabs turned down every one.
The day that Israel began on its own rather small part of the British mandate area, and only on the part given to Israel, they were attacked by six Arabs countries who swore to push them into the sea. That failed. Five Arab countries tried again in 1967. That failed spectacularly. Then an Egyptian-led coalition of five countries in 1973 that initially succeeded, but ultimately failed.
Every attempt at handing an Arab state to the so-called "Palestinians" has been turned down by the "Palestinians". That includes several before 1948, again in 1948, and again in 1998, and 2000, and 2008. Every time the "Palestinians" say no, demanding every inch of Israel, and the end of the Jews - at a minimum those living in Israel, although some call for the death of every Jew worldwide.
Israel offered Gaza to Egypt many times in the past. Egypt refuses to take it.
Israel left Gaza completely in 2005, and pushed to help establish it at as a peaceful home for the Gazans, aid included. Instead Hamas took over, and turned it into a terrorist nest, attacking civilians mostly in Israel, but also in Egypt. That is when both Egypt and Israel erected a separation for the protection of their own respective civilians.
Note that Egypt and Jordan were among the countries that had previously declared war against and attacked Israel. Israel has always offered peace to any Arab or Muslim country that wanted it. Egypt accepted in 1978/1979, and Israel gave back the entire Sinai desert, captured from Egypt five years earlier. Israel and Egypt currently have a very good working relationship.
Jordan accepted a peace deal in 1994. Since then they have a cold peace with Israel, but peace it still is.
Note that Israel made peace three years ago with Bahrain, Oman, and the UAE, and was coming very close to making peace with Saudi Arabia, a country which had attacked Israel many times (1948, 1967, and 1973). It was this outbreak of peace with the Sunni world (85% of Muslims) that caused Iran-backed Hamas (all of whom are Shia) to attack Israel.
Also note that the "Palestinians" have been in and out of many Muslim countries over the years, and have fomented upheaval and war in all of them, leading to their expulsion. They nearly overthrew Jordan, so Jordan killed 2,000 and expelled 30,000 "Palestinians". Beirut was once called the "Paris of the Middle East", until 1975 that is, when the "Palestinians" turned it into a civil-war torn hellhole.
Kuwait recently kicked out over 100,000 "Palestinians".
The Syrian civil war has been about Assad (truly an evil man) trying to get rid of his "Palestinian" problem. Asaad has killed hindreds of thousands of them; the world pays no attention.
I hope you find this useful.
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@mathusalen1
Israel is not occupying anything.
Israel was never and has never been indigenous Arab land. Look at a map of Arabia; Israel is in a different area.
The PLO invented the term "Palestinian" in the 1960s. It is utterly bogus.
Walid Shoebat, a former Muslim terrorist who at that time lived in the area that became known as the "West Bank," (another invented term) said "how can I go to bed as a Jordanian one day, and wake up the next day as a Palestinian?"
Then-PLO Executive Committee member Zahir Muhsein, in a 1977 interview, said: "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality there is no difference between Jordanians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for our political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since the Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct ‘Palestinian people,’ to oppose Zionism.”
There are many, many more quotes like that. 60 years ago, there was no term "Palestinian" to refer to Arabs living in Israel.
Jews have been living in Israel for thousands of years continuously.
When the British mandate was rolling to a close early in the 20th century, they sought to give land to both Jews and Arabs. The Jews accepted every offer. The Arabs turned down every one.
The day that Israel began on its own rather small part of the British mandate area, and only on the part given to Israel, they were attacked by six Arabs countries who swore to push them into the sea. That failed. Five Arab countries tried again in 1967. That failed spectacularly. Then an Egyptian-led coalition of five countries in 1973 that initially succeeded, but ultimately failed.
Every attempt at handing an Arab state to the so-called "Palestinians" has been turned down by the "Palestinians". That includes several before 1948, again in 1948, and again in 1998, and 2000, and 2008. Every time the "Palestinians" say no, demanding every inch of Israel, and the end of the Jews - at a minimum those living in Israel, although some call for the death of every Jew worldwide.
Israel offered Gaza to Egypt many times in the past. Egypt refuses to take it.
Israel left Gaza completely in 2005, and pushed to help establish it at as a peaceful home for the Gazans, aid included. Instead Hamas took over, and turned it into a terrorist nest, attacking civilians mostly in Israel, but also in Egypt. That is when both Egypt and Israel erected a separation for the protection of their own respective civilians.
Note that Egypt and Jordan were among the countries that had previously declared war against and attacked Israel. Israel has always offered peace to any Arab or Muslim country that wanted it. Egypt accepted in 1978/1979, and Israel gave back the entire Sinai desert, captured from Egypt five years earlier. Israel and Egypt currently have a very good working relationship.
Jordan accepted a peace deal in 1994. Since then they have a cold peace with Israel, but peace it still is.
Note that Israel made peace three years ago with Bahrain, Oman, and the UAE, and was coming very close to making peace with Saudi Arabia, a country which had attacked Israel many times (1948, 1967, and 1973). It was this outbreak of peace with the Sunni world (85% of Muslims) that caused Iran-backed Hamas (all of whom are Shia) to attack Israel.
Also note that the "Palestinians" have been in and out of many Muslim countries over the years, and have fomented upheaval and war in all of them, leading to their expulsion. They nearly overthrew Jordan, so Jordan killed 2,000 and expelled 30,000 "Palestinians". Beirut was once called the "Paris of the Middle East", until 1975 that is, when the "Palestinians" turned it into a civil-war torn hellhole.
Kuwait recently kicked out over 100,000 "Palestinians".
The Syrian civil war has been about Assad (truly an evil man) trying to get rid of his "Palestinian" problem. Asaad has killed hundreds of thousands of them; the world pays no attention.
There's a start for you. Anything else you would like me to clarify?
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@jasonq7504
Legal journals have written as follows:
"Applied to the case of Israel, uti possidetis juris would dictate that Israel inherit the boundaries of the Mandate of Palestine as they existed in May, 1948. The doctrine would thus support Israeli claims to any or all of the currently hotly disputed areas of Jerusalem (including East Jerusalem), the West Bank, and even potentially the Gaza Strip."
The fact is that Jews have lived continuously in Israel for well over 3000 years. The claim that the Jews usurped Arab land is simply without basis. Britain's Balfour Declaration of 1917 recognized that both Jews and Arabs had been living in the area in recent years, which led to several attempts to divvy up the land. Every version was accepted by the Jews, every one rejected by the Arabs. And then the Arab states got together to "push Israel into the sea" as they put it, in 1948 and 1967 and 1973, and failed each time. Then Egypt agreed to a peace treaty with Israel in the late 1970s, a major step forward, and other states eventually followed. Not all, of course - the Muslim Brotherhood (Iran, Hamas, al-Qaeda, ISIS, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, etc.) still swears that their goal - essentially their only goal - is the elimination of Israel, the elimination of all Jews, and eventually taking over the planet for Islam and installing universal Sharia Law.
One of the sources of confusion is the term "Palestinian", and references to "Palestine". What is now called Israel was called Palestine 100 years ago, but it was called Israel thousands of years ago. When the PLO terrorist group wanted to push the false narrative in the 1960s that the Jews had removed the Arabs from their land, they renamed some Lebanese, Syrians, Egyptians, and Jordanians as "Palestinians", as if they had been in "Palestine" before the Jews pushed them out. It was a claim made up out of whole cloth.
Walid Shoebat, a former Muslim terrorist who at that time lived in the area that became known as the "West Bank," (another invented term) said "how can I go to bed as a Jordanian one day, and wake up the next day as a Palestinian?"
Then-PLO Executive Committee member Zahir Muhsein, in a 1977 interview, said: "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality there is no difference between Jordanians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for our political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since the Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct ‘Palestinian people,’ to oppose Zionism.”
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@jakobaa9031
Israel is not occupying anything.
Israel was never and has never been indigenous Arab land. Look at a map of Arabia; Israel is not there.
The term "Palestinian" is false, recently made up for political purposes.
The PLO invented the term "Palestinian" in the 1960s. It is utterly bogus.
Walid Shoebat, a former Muslim terrorist who at that time lived in the area that became known as the "West Bank," (another invented term) said "how can I go to bed as a Jordanian one day, and wake up the next day as a Palestinian?"
Then-PLO Executive Committee member Zahir Muhsein, in a 1977 interview, said: "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality there is no difference between Jordanians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for our political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since the Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct ‘Palestinian people,’ to oppose Zionism.”
There are many, many more quotes like that. 60 years ago, there was no term "Palestinian" to refer to Arabs living in Israel.
Jews have been living in Israel for thousands of years continuously.
When the British mandate was rolling to a close early in the 20th century, they sought to give land to both Jews and Arabs. The Jews accepted every offer. The Arabs turned down every one.
The day that Israel began on its own rather small part of the British mandate area, and only on the part given to Israel, they were attacked by six Arabs countries who swore to push them into the sea. That failed. Five Arab countries tried again in 1967. That failed spectacularly. Then an Egyptian-led coalition of five countries in 1973 that initially succeeded, but ultimately failed.
Every attempt at handing an Arab state to the so-called "Palestinians" has been turned down by the "Palestinians". That includes several before 1948, again in 1948, and again in 1998, and 2000, and 2008. Every time the "Palestinians" say no, demanding every inch of Israel, and the end of the Jews - at a minimum those living in Israel, although some call for the death of every Jew worldwide.
Israel offered Gaza to Egypt many times in the past. Egypt refuses to take it.
Israel left Gaza completely in 2005, and pushed to help establish it at as a peaceful home for the Gazans, aid included. Instead Hamas took over, and turned it into a terrorist nest, attacking civilians mostly in Israel, but also in Egypt. That is when both Egypt and Israel erected a separation for the protection of their own respective civilians.
Note that Egypt and Jordan were among the countries that had previously declared war against and attacked Israel. Israel has always offered peace to any Arab or Muslim country that wanted it. Egypt accepted in 1978/1979, and Israel gave back the entire Sinai desert, captured from Egypt five years earlier. Israel and Egypt currently have a very good working relationship.
Jordan accepted a peace deal in 1994. Since then they have a cold peace with Israel, but peace it still is.
Note that Israel made peace three years ago with Bahrain, Oman, and the UAE, and was coming very close to making peace with Saudi Arabia, a country which had attacked Israel many times (1948, 1967, and 1973). It was this outbreak of peace with the Sunni world (85% of Muslims) that caused Iran-backed Hamas (all of whom are Shia) to attack Israel.
Also note that the "Palestinians" have been in and out of many Muslim countries over the years, and have fomented upheaval and war in all of them, leading to their expulsion. They nearly overthrew Jordan, so Jordan killed 2,000 and expelled 30,000 "Palestinians". Beirut was once called the "Paris of the Middle East", until 1975 that is, when the "Palestinians" turned it into a civil-war torn hellhole.
Kuwait recently kicked out over 100,000 "Palestinians".
The Syrian civil war has been about Assad (truly an evil man) trying to get rid of his "Palestinian" problem. Assad has killed hundreds of thousands of them; the world pays no attention.
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@Feisal50
Israel is not occupying anything.
Israel was never and has never been indigenous Arab land. Look at a map of Arabia; Israel is not there.
The term "Palestinian" is false, recently made up for political purposes.
The PLO invented the term "Palestinian" in the 1960s. It is utterly bogus.
Walid Shoebat, a former Muslim terrorist who at that time lived in the area that became known as the "West Bank," (another invented term) said "how can I go to bed as a Jordanian one day, and wake up the next day as a Palestinian?"
Then-PLO Executive Committee member Zahir Muhsein, in a 1977 interview, said: "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality there is no difference between Jordanians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for our political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since the Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct ‘Palestinian people,’ to oppose Zionism.”
There are many, many more quotes like that. 60 years ago, there was no term "Palestinian" to refer to Arabs living in Israel.
Jews have been living in Israel for thousands of years continuously.
When the British mandate was rolling to a close early in the 20th century, they sought to give land to both Jews and Arabs. The Jews accepted every offer. The Arabs turned down every one.
The day that Israel began on its own rather small part of the British mandate area, and only on the part given to Israel, they were attacked by six Arabs countries who swore to push them into the sea. That failed. Five Arab countries tried again in 1967. That failed spectacularly. Then an Egyptian-led coalition of five countries in 1973 that initially succeeded, but ultimately failed.
Every attempt at handing an Arab state to the so-called "Palestinians" has been turned down by the "Palestinians". That includes several before 1948, again in 1948, and again in 1998, and 2000, and 2008. Every time the "Palestinians" say no, demanding every inch of Israel, and the end of the Jews - at a minimum those living in Israel, although some call for the death of every Jew worldwide.
Israel offered Gaza to Egypt many times in the past. Egypt refuses to take it.
Israel left Gaza completely in 2005, and pushed to help establish it at as a peaceful home for the Gazans, aid included. Instead Hamas took over, and turned it into a terrorist nest, attacking civilians mostly in Israel, but also in Egypt. That is when both Egypt and Israel erected a separation for the protection of their own respective civilians.
Note that Egypt and Jordan were among the countries that had previously declared war against and attacked Israel. Israel has always offered peace to any Arab or Muslim country that wanted it. Egypt accepted in 1978/1979, and Israel gave back the entire Sinai desert, captured from Egypt five years earlier. Israel and Egypt currently have a very good working relationship.
Jordan accepted a peace deal in 1994. Since then they have a cold peace with Israel, but peace it still is.
Note that Israel made peace three years ago with Bahrain, Oman, and the UAE, and was coming very close to making peace with Saudi Arabia, a country which had attacked Israel many times (1948, 1967, and 1973). It was this outbreak of peace with the Sunni world (85% of Muslims) that caused Iran-backed Hamas (all of whom are Shia) to attack Israel.
Also note that the "Palestinians" have been in and out of many Muslim countries over the years, and have fomented upheaval and war in all of them, leading to their expulsion. They nearly overthrew Jordan, so Jordan killed 2,000 and expelled 30,000 "Palestinians". Beirut was once called the "Paris of the Middle East", until 1975 that is, when the "Palestinians" turned it into a civil-war torn hellhole.
Kuwait recently kicked out over 100,000 "Palestinians".
The Syrian civil war has been about Assad (truly an evil man) trying to get rid of his "Palestinian" problem. Asaad has killed hindreds of thousands of them; the world pays no attention.
IThat's utter BS. If you mean Israel, it was Jewish land going back thousands of years. And if you mean Gaza, Israel has been trying to get rid of it for decades, but literally can't give it away. Egypt won't take it. Israel left anyway in 2006, and are now forced back in by endless terrorist attacks from Gaza.
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@tablesalt2628
Legal journals have written as follows:
"Applied to the case of Israel, uti possidetis juris would dictate that Israel inherit the boundaries of the Mandate of Palestine as they existed in May, 1948. The doctrine would thus support Israeli claims to any or all of the currently hotly disputed areas of Jerusalem (including East Jerusalem), the West Bank, and even potentially the Gaza Strip."
The fact is that Jews have lived continuously in Israel for well over 3000 years. The claim that the Jews usurped Arab land is simply without basis. Britain's Balfour Declaration of 1917 recognized that both Jews and Arabs had been living in the area in recent years, which led to several attempts to divvy up the land. Every version was accepted by the Jews, every one rejected by the Arabs. And then the Arab states got together to "push Israel into the sea" as they put it, in 1948 and 1967 and 1973, and failed each time. Then Egypt agreed to a peace treaty with Israel in the late 1970s, a major step forward, and other states eventually followed. Not all, of course - the Muslim Brotherhood (Iran, Hamas, al-Qaeda, ISIS, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, etc.) still swears that their goal - essentially their only goal - is the elimination of Israel, the elimination of all Jews, and eventually taking over the planet for Islam and installing universal Sharia Law.
One of the sources of confusion is the term "Palestinian", and references to "Palestine". What is now called Israel was called Palestine 100 years ago, but it was called Israel thousands of years ago. When the PLO terrorist group wanted to push the false narrative in the 1960s that the Jews had removed the Arabs from their land, they renamed some Lebanese, Syrians, Egyptians, and Jordanians as "Palestinians", as if they had been in "Palestine" before the Jews pushed them out. It was a claim made up out of whole cloth.
Walid Shoebat, a former Muslim terrorist who at that time lived in the area that became known as the "West Bank," (another invented term) said "how can I go to bed as a Jordanian one day, and wake up the next day as a Palestinian?"
Then-PLO Executive Committee member Zahir Muhsein, in a 1977 interview, said: "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality there is no difference between Jordanians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for our political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since the Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct ‘Palestinian people,’ to oppose Zionism.”
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