Comments by "TJ Marx" (@tjmarx) on "Cookham Wood: weapons and violence rife at young offenders institute, report reveals" video.
-
No one is ever FORCED to use violence. Violence is always a choice. We can talk about children not having the mental tools to make better choices but we can't remove all blame from them and act like they'd be angels if not for the situation.
If the lady growing the third eye at the front of the video wants to see what happens when you take remand off the table for young offenders, she need look only to Queensland Australia where youth crime is sky rocketing and youth offenders are back on the streets within 24 hours after killing a woman in her own home, or when they stalk and stab random men in the street.
Corrections officers are not social workers and it's unreasonable to expect them to be. Their job is to provide security, and they require the tools to facilitate that mission.
It sounds as though the union are asking for youth detention centres to be reformed from a prison model into an actual youth detention model. It sounds as though the union are calling for investment into on site teachers, social workers and other members of staff to create opportunities for these kids and provide adequate interventions. That's a position I share, and curiously one the advocate and the host both likewise seems to share despite berating the union official. They all seem in agreement but they just wanted a big bad, and the advocate is determined to not make the kids accountable for their actions.
But we aren't talking about 7 - 10 year olds. We aren't talking about cuddly little toddlers. We're talking about 16 - 18 year olds on the cusp of adulthood, with the physical capacity to do real, serious harm to adults. Means to mitigate violence, including as a last resort physical force or restraint need to be adopted for corrections officers to keep everyone safe. When juvenile 1 is in the middle of stabbing or assaulting juvenile 2, there is immediate cause for physical intervention.
But corrections officers also need to be supported by social workers, psychologists, teachers and other such members of staff whom can intervene in a more peaceful way where appropriate, such as if juvenile 1 & 2 are having a screaming match.
8
-
@careyostrer6193 What on earth are you gabbing about with that strawman?
The criminal justice system in it's entirety is reformative in nature regardless of age of the convicted. A reformative criminal justice system is predilect on the idea that all persons are capable of change be they 0 or 99 years old.
I do not see some special opportunity for personal change over that of others simply because an individual is 16-18 years old. Indeed, if you think back to how you felt at such an age, your emotions, ego and fear of not being taken seriously/ fitting in with peers, along with overall lack of life experience, often prevented one in such an age range from identifying genuine opportunities and being willing to make such change. These are things which come, not just with age and life experience, but with the physical development of the brain.
At 16, one's brain is only JUST starting along it's decade long remodelling from high plasticity, high learning, to an adult mind which comprehends consequence, particularly external and long term consequence. This for example is the very reason juveniles are classified and handled differently under the law than adults.
A males testosterone peaks in this age range too, but is unstable. So you have an almost adult body, controlled by a child brain that is only just starting to comprehend consequence, with high drivers on peer group social status, endorphin reward, high tolerance to risk (that feeling of being invisible) and a randomly fluctuating hormonal cocktail that can create violence out of nowhere. That is why the union representative is talking about 16-18 year olds being the most dangerous group in the entire custodial system.
That isn't to say they are without hope or that they can not change. Again, the system is reformative, change is the entire point. What it is to say, is the reality. These are violent offenders, whom continue their violence whilst in custody and should be recognised and treated as such. They absolutely need corrections officers capable of deploying reasonable force where necessary to control the situation. The mere possibility of such force as an immediate consequence is often enough to prevent violence and to keep things calmer.
Youth facilities are expensive to run, much more so than adult facilities. Even more expensive still if they're run right. That goes for any youth facility, not just a detention centres. If you want the centre run well, you have to be willing to spend your tax dollars on it.
1
-
@careyostrer6193 If you're going to continue to converse with me please use paragraphs for readability or I will simply dismiss you.
There is no aggression, you are reading something into my words that is simply not there. This is your bias manifesting in the way you introduce tone to my words.
That the criminal justice system is reformative is not a view nor matter of opinion. It is an objective fact with regards it's legislative design, intent and practice of the system.
We are not talking about yankville, we are talking about the UK. They differ from one another substantively and fundamentally. Yankville is as irrelevant to this discussion, as they are generally to geopolitics. That is to say, completely. If you are incapable of remaining on topic, or speaking of the UK criminal justice system from experience or deep understanding then you are in the wrong conversation, and are wasting both of our time.
The neurodevelopmental and neurochemical changes from an adolescent brain to that of an adult starting from 16, and continuing until 25/26 are likewise not a view nor opinion. They are objective, indisputable medical fact.
I have not made any assumption. Did I claim you said either of those statements? No. I was merely attempting to bring your strawman back into relevance with the OP. You in fact repeatedly talk about the "cost to run cockham wood" as if it's excessive. My point was not only is it not excessive, it is underfunded for what it is. It needs a budget 5-6 times larger to be run appropriately.
The colour of ones skin is entirely irrelevant to the system and this discussion, Justicia is blind for a reason. What matters is their actions, and only their actions. But before you have a song and dance, white juvenile offenders make up 50.6% of detentions, and black juvenile offenders make up just 27.8% according to the latest official government youth justice statistics. Blacks are by far the lowest proportional ethnic cohort in the youth justice statistics. There are more asian youth in detention than blacks. So let's stop the silly race card nonsense because to be honest that's the racist and desperate meanderings of someone without a genuine argument. It's intellectually bankrupt and shameful.
We are not talking about juveniles whom have simply shop lifted or committed a non violent simple offence. We are talking about violent major offences such as armed robbery, aggravated home invasions, grievous bodily harm, sexual assault and manslaughter. These are serious violent offenders whom need to be treated as such.
All inmates, regardless of age, have a sob story. Every offender can point to something in their lives that didn't go well and try to blame their actions on that. The kiddie fiddler who wants to talk about their traumatic childhood, or the serial killer who wants to say their mothet/father/sibling/first love/whatever didn't hug them enough or spend time with them the right way. Every offender, right up and down the scale of offences can point to something. Even those who created the trauma for the youth offenders in question can point to trauma in their own past.
Whilst these past experiences almost certainly contributed to their crimes, our behaviour is determinist not fatalist. That is, whilst the past informs whom we are, we retain agency over ourselves, our behaviour and our actions. Unfortunately around 1/3 of children will experience serious trauma through childhood, however the vast majority will not go on to commit violent major offences. Accountability is essential, it's how you stop the cycle of trauma.
Violence is a choice, always. That isn't an opinion or a "view", that's behavioural science. Another one of those objective facts.
The introduction of social workers, psychologists, teachers and other similar staff to the system was discussed both by the union rep in this video and in both of my previous comments including the OP. That is as much discussion on the trauma these children have experienced as needs to be had. It is then up to these professionals to implement appropriate case by case interventions during detention.
What you have utterly failed to consider anywhere is their victims. You want to create strawman talking about the passed trauma of the offenders but refuse to talk about the real and present trauma of their victims. That's victims not "victims". They deserve to feel as though they matter. That their attacker is being held accountable and the same won't happen to someone else. The community at large deserve to feel safe both on the street and in their homes. None of that happens when we're preoccupied with the feelings of those causing harm to others.
One only needs to look to California, Queensland, Ontario to see the consequences of your way of thinking being taken seriously. California's economy is collapsing, Queensland is descending into vigilante justice and people in Ontario are afraid in their homes.
P.S. It is a amalgam of western culture that we say tax dollars and not tax pounds nor tax euros despite the currency not being in use domestically.
1
-
1
-
1