Comments by "BlackFlagsNRoses" (@blackflagsnroses6013) on "Stranger Things: Vecna's Origins Explained" video.

For those still theorizing about the hierarchy, the Duffer Bros once again gave us exposition through Dustin. The Mind Flayer is an ancient primordial psychic entity that is the collective hive mind of all life in the Upside Down, a dark mirror dimension parallel to our own. Henry Creel aka 001, and Vecna was sent to the Upside Down in 1979 by 11/Jane. There he got burnt by lightning strikes. The being we call Vecna is Henry/001 becoming part of the hive of the Mind Flayer. Increasing his strength and abilities over the years, with the help of the Mind Flayer (the tentacle/spider legs coming from the MF) he healed and became this “dark wizard.” The creatures of the Upside Down, like Vecna have memories and actions of their own but they remain part of the super organism called the Mind Flayer. Vecna is his own person, but now part of the hive, and as Dustin said is the Mind Flayer’s 5-Star General. Manipulating his desire for vengeance and psychic abilities that can be used to open portals. The only weakness we’ve seen the Mind Flayer has (other than heat) is that it can’t crossover to our side fully. Which is why they’ve been able to defeat it’s vessels. Were it able to physically enter our world, not just psychically, it would be a huge world crisis and likely the plot of season 5.
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Vecna’s story reminds me of two fictional characters with similar stories. Tom Riddle/ Voldemort from Harry Potter and Amon/Noatak from Legend of Korra.
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@darkeclipse2623 the Mind Flayer outranks Vecna. It’s an ancient psychic superorganism. The Upside Down is ancient, Vecna was thrown there in 1979
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No time stopped in the Upside Down when 11 opened the first permanent portal to the UD. That was just before the first episode of Stranger Things and when Will got stuck there in 1983. 11 did open a portal in 1979 when she threw 001 to the Upside Down, but it wasn’t a permanent portal. In the opening scene when Dr. Brenner sees little 11 in the rainbow room covered in blood and the carnage around the lab notice there is no portal behind 11 anymore. It wasn’t a permanent portal, she wasn’t strong enough for that, only a temporary portal that banished Henry/001/Vecna to the Upside Down. The first permanent portal was opened when she was older in 1983 and she contacted the Demogorgon
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@darkeclipse2623 the first scene shows that 11 threw Henry into the Upside Down in 1979. Dustin explains that Vecna must be the Mind Flayer’s 5 star general. Throughout the series they’ve explained the Upside Down is a parallel world, and it’s likely as old as our world since it’s a mirror dimension. Albeit one destroyed by the Mind Flayer.
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The Mind Flayer. Vecna is alive thanks to the Mind Flayer
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@jfhcjxnd6806 Eleven hasn’t beaten the Mind Flayer, she’s beaten vessels. Now imagine the Mind Flayer physically entering our world. The other two seasons were about closing the portals to prevent the Mind Flayer from getting out because it would be nigh unstoppable. Which is why “defeating” it has been a matter of closing the portals. 11 didn’t create the Upside Down, we saw it already existed when she threw Henry into it in 1979. Henry became another member of the collective hive mind called the Mind Flayer. As they explained he’s the MF’s 5 star general. The Mind Flayer is using him to open portals so that it can enter our world, which would take more than 11 to defeat if it’s physically in our world. The Upside Down is just a parallel world, it’s as old as our own universe. They’re mirror images of each other.
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@darkeclipse2623 have one what? One world? That’s us assuming. In season two they explain the concept of the Mind Flayer from Dungeons and Dragons. The Mind Flayer is a being so ancient it doesn’t even remember it’s own origins or home. It conquers dimensions. We don’t know if this is the case with the Mind Flayer in the show, but they certainly tease that it’s an ancient being of unknown origins. The dimension of the Upside Down may not be Mind Flayer’s original world. As as seen throughout the series now that it knows of our world it wants to come here and conquer it. Essentially turning our world into another Upside Down.
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@TekkaSage time is paused at 1983 when 11 contacted the Demogorgon. That doesn’t coincide with Henry being thrown into the Upside Down in 1979. Though it may have to do with him hating time, he’s not the king of the Upside Down. He’s another 11, the first, and neither he nor 11 are as powerful as the Mind Flayer which is a collective hive mind. Literally a collection of minds. The hellish landscape we saw when Creel was thrown in isn’t much different from what we’ve seen before. The Upside Down has two shades. The majority appears bluish with white particles falling, and a desolated world. The outside of the Creel house also exists in this bluish tint. And then there’s the red, like inside the Creel house and Vecna’s domain. We also see red and thunder when the Mind Flayer is around. Red seems to indicate the Flayer’s presence or strong psionic presence.
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@Zakatkpro yeah but she wasn’t powerful to create a permanent portal. She just sent 001 into the Upside Down, they showed the portal close. Like remember in the opening scene when Dr. Brenner found little 11 thinking she caused the murders, there was no portal behind her anymore. She didn’t open the first permanent portal until 1983 when she contacted the Demogorgon leading to the start of the series episode 1, season 1.
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Doesn’t seem like that. The show has shown that the Mind Flayer rules the Upside Down. These are ancient entities. The Upside Down is a parallel dimension destroyed by the superorganism called the Mind Flayer. You can see Vecna became part of it as he now looks like a creature of the Upside Down.
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@TeddyTheJonathanSlayer it’s been the overarching villain since season 2, and the exposition they give us is that it’s the big bad still in season 4 so…. It’s literally a collective hive mind of all life in the Upside Down. How is that not a leader? Vecna is just a human that was thrown into the Flayer’s dimension in 1979.
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@TeddyTheJonathanSlayer well no D&D is just used for exposition and to explain the story and a parallel dimension. We all know the multiverse theory, well the Upside Down seems to be one of those parallel worlds that was destroyed by the Mind Flayer
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@jdawg8176 but that doesn’t coincide with the Demogorgon coming out in 1983. The crack and her first exposure was probably what allowed her to contact the Demogorgon. 11 was older in 1983. When she released the Demogorgon we saw she was the only psychic left at the lab, and the portal was opened wide. A crack wasn’t much to work with.
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@darkeclipse2623 being a psychic human from our world makes him a unique member of the hive. The Mind Flayer has his own 11. All other life in the Upside Down seem to be animalistic predators
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@jfhcjxnd6806 that hasn’t been established. We know from season 2 that Dr. Brenner started a program of injecting babies and their mother’s in the womb with special drugs. That gave birth to the psychic children of the program. Now it’s possible the drugs were made from Henry Creel’s blood, but we don’t know if the abilities have anything to do with blood and DNA. It could just be hallucinogen drugs. We don’t know how Henry was born with powers but Dr. Brenner was interested in him. We know the sins of his father, but not the mother. How did the mom know that Henry was the one tormenting the family? She knew he had powers. Was she part Brenner’s experiments, or did she take drugs pregnant with Henry? It certainly seems like drugs were involved with all the other children with abilities. But it’s not like they’re clones of number 1. But again it’s possible they used his blood to perfect the drugs. They never confirmed it, only said after Henry Brenner started a program to create more psychics like him. But there’s two episodes left this season so we’ll likely find out more.
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@jfhcjxnd6806 Brenner didn’t say he took Henry’s blood and injected it into pregnant women. In season 2 when 11 found her mother it was explained that drugs are the cause of psychic born. We didn’t see Virginia pregnant with Henry, but she knew he had the powers, which means she must have taken the drugs, may be even knew of Dr. Brenner. When Henry uses his powers his nose bleeds like all the others. All they said was that after Henry, Brenner looked for more psychic children and started a program. It’s certain drugs taken by pregnant women that makes psychics. There’s no reason to believe Henry was different, just that he was the first subject, whether purposefully or by accident we don’t know yet. But no they didn’t say Creel’s DNA or blood was used to make psychics, it’s some kind of drug concoction. They didn’t say Creel was used to MAKE others, they just said after him Brenner started a program to make more people like him (psychics).
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@jfhcjxnd6806 the big portal in season 1 was closed, I don’t know about the tree but that was just big enough for a Demogorgon. Do you really think Vecna was powerful enough to create the Demogorgon and all the creatures of the Upside Down? Why is everyone stuck on the UD looking hellish when Creel was thrown in? It’s always looked like that. Whenever the Mind Flayer is around we see red sky and thunderstorms. Vecna is just another member of the hive, he doesn’t need to lose his identity and memories to be part of a collective hive. They can still think for themselves, however they are part of a larger organism. As seen with Dustin’s pet Demogorgon in season 2.
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@jfhcjxnd6806 it also doesn’t have monsters… The Upside Down is a world that was desolated by the Mind Flayer. Those “mountains” are just the hellish landscape that was Hawkins. Besides I’m pretty sure there are mountains in the State of Indiana
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@Zakatkpro the time thing will certainly be an important plot point moving forward. Either it’s part of Vecna’s disdain for time, or something about opening the first permanent portal in 1983. Obviously they’ll have to explain that and it’s going to be important to defeat Vecna, maybe even the Mind Flayer in season 5. My initial theory would be that Vecna, working for the Mind Flayer, stopped time when the first permanent portal opened as a means to remain in a time period where there was a portal opened, or something to that effect. The Mind Flayer would have sensed when a rift was opened, especially since the Demogorgons are part of the collective hive mind. Everything the Demogorgon saw the Mind Flayer saw as well.
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@deewilliams9993 the flesh monster was a weapon or avatar for the MF. It’s never been able to fully enter our world
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