Comments by "Tony Wilson" (@tonywilson4713) on "Triggernometry"
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@squoblat I got a blunt lesson in these practicalities circa 2002 from a classmate who at the time was in the ISS construction program. These days she's at a level where if you don't have her signature your stuff isn't going to the ISS.
At that time my idea was satellite servicing. There was $14 Billion in functioning satellites being dumped into the ocean each year for no other reason than they'd run out of fuel. At that time I was doing automation systems for manufacturing and the best and most reliable money in that game isn't installing robots and programing them its maintenance.
My proposal wasn't new. I was actually rehashing previous proposals. She quite bluntly crushed it with the reality that we didn't have the life support or propulsion to do that task. I know it was circa 2002 because around the same time I also met Harrison Schmitt (Apollo 17) who was here in Australia for the 30th anniversary of his mission. I got to talk to him and told him what I had discussed previously with that friend at NASA. He crushed it with another reality - launch access. if you want to work in space you need launch access and servicing satellites instead of replacing them would smash the launch industry who are the very people you need launch access from.
Then he told me something else _"Go have a look at Helium-3.
Right at that time Australia was just starting a decade long boom in mining construction. So I had the brilliant (or not) idea that if I combined actual remote mine site construction experience with what I already had the consortium wanting to build a lunar Helium-3 mine they'd see that experience favorably.
What I got out of it was a brutal set of practical lessons and to this day (as far as I know) I am the only aerospace engineer to have ever worked in that environment.
Remote mines have several stages of life.
1) Remote survey by satellites and airplanes.
2) On the ground survey. Usually a couple of geologists with a 4WD, some shovels & picks.
3) Drill program where they send out a drilling rig, drill rig team, support hardware and do a drilling program.
4) Site construction
5) Operations
I can tell you that Apollo was the equivalent of stage 2. A couple of guys doing a site survey and picking up some samples to test back at the lab.
I can tell the amount of hardware needed for stage 3 is staggering. At stage 2 you only need something like a Toyota Landcruiser. At stage 3 you need Mack trucks and 3-5 of them at least, plus a few Landcruisers. You need to set up a place for the crew to live for 3-4 months, that includes toilets, showers, food storage, communications, fuel storage,.... AND A SUPPLY LINE because you keep consuming water, food & fuel.
Then if a mine is going to be built BEFORE you even start you have to build a camp for the 100s (maybe several 1000) workers to live in. At that point you are now talking things like a power station, air field, fuel dump, mess hall & kitchen, fresh water treatment plant and a sewerage treatment plant. At that point you haven't even started on the actual mine. the actual first thing that has to be built is the workshop, because the moment you start the actual site construction (the hole and the dirt processing plant) you have bulldozers, diggers, cranes and all sorts of hardware doing work that requires maintenance.
Nobody has even done a drilling program to actually ascertain what resources are available or even considered how that would be supported. Just a basic workshop to support the basic work means several tons of hardware launched off the planet flown to the moon, and landed on the moon.
Just trying to cover these basic concepts with the sci-fi fantasy league is so frustrating. I spent a chunk of my career working some real crap places so I could actually answer questions like "What are the basics of the task of setting up a moon base?"
Sorry for the long answer, but I think your one of the few people who can grasp this stuff.
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I'm an engineer and my favorite subject is what do you have in your life that's not had an engineer involved?
I'm Australian and the only product I can point at and say "that has no engineering in it at all" is traditional native Aboriginal arts and crafts.
If it has metal, plastic or was in a factory of any sort then it needed engineering for you to obtain it. Even food - think about the tractors, processing machinery, refrigeration,.... etc. The thing is ALL OF THAT STUFF involves blue collar workers, building, maintaining and operating the machinery.
I'm one of those people who truly hates the rest of the White Collar classes. In particular the PMC (Professional Managerial Class) who I see as nothing more than worthless, arrogant, ignorant scum who actually think they know what makes modern developed societies FUNCTION. If we took most of the Lawyers, Accountants, PMCs (especially HR) and other similar types and loaded them onto the SS Titanic 2 and sailed it straight towards the nearest iceberg it would be a good start.
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