Comments by "" (@manofsan) on "EU Debates | eudebates.tv" channel.

@weshouldsaveourselves6780 you're not inside of any other human's brain -- so you don't personally know if they feel pain. But pain and distress can be measured, by electrical impusles, by chemical substances in the bloodstream. There is ample data to show that animals killed in these cruel ways do indeed show the same signs of pain as any human being does. And why wouldn't they? Their flesh is based on the same biology as our own. This information is far more credible than some ignorant book written in the 7th century, which the rest of us don't believe in. Just because you're ignorant and backward, doesn't mean the rest of us have to be.
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@weshouldsaveourselves6780 vegetables & fruits don't have a brain or a nervous system. No nervous system means no pain. When doctors operate on you, they can stop your nerves from functioning, so that you won't feel pain. When animals are properly slaughtered, they are killed by electrically stunning them, so that their nervous system is deactivated and the animal feels no pain while it is quickly killed. Deactivating the nervous system and killing quickly makes the death painless and thus more humane. People did not know about these better methods centuries ago, but now we know better and use the better methods.
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2 wrongs don't make a right - even though that's exactly how you're arguing. The much greater occurrence of animal slaughter gives it priority over the less frequent hunting issue.
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@amitmichaeli5717 Again, you're the one drawing attention to animal hunting because the issue of animal slaughter is being raised. I'm saying don't distract from the issue of reforming animal slaughter cruelty by bringing up hunting. Both things can eventually be done, but animal slaughter is the overwhelming bulk of the problem, while hunting is far less.
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@amitmichaeli5717 certainly number of animals counts. On what basis do you say that cruel animal slaughter, which is deliberately and consistently being done in a particularly agonizing way, is then a lesser offense? I feel you're arguing just for the sake of arguing. I've said I'm not in favor of cruelty through hunting.
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@weshouldsaveourselves6780 I'm saying you're some primitive nut who wants to use 7th-century standards to judge straightforward ethical issues. How would an animal not feel pain? Animals were feeling pain long before humans even walked the Earth. Our own biology, including our own ability to sense pain, is evolved from their biology. What's so difficult to understand here?Living things don't only use words to express pain, you dumbass. You're willfully blind, just out of stubbornness. You and those like you put your own credibility in the toilet.
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@weshouldsaveourselves6780 I don't think you understand the basics of biology. You're just living in your concocted 7th-century fantasy, which pretends to know about all things while not following any scientific method. Human beings have the same basic biology as the animals you're talking about. Our ability to feel pain didn't come out of thin air - it came from them. You're just in denial, like that river in Egypt.
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@weshouldsaveourselves6780 "its certain they have different pain responses" - by what means have you determined this? By what means did those who wrote Koran determine this? Just writing a book many centuries ago doesn't make it accurate, especially in a scientific sense.
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@weshouldsaveourselves6780 man, I don't need the whole religious babble. I'm talking about science. Those who don't believe in science are illiterates. Trying to claim holy book from many centuries ago is more accurate than modern day science is just ridiculous. Your holy book does not tell you how to understand who feels pain or not. If your holy book told you to stand on your head all day, you'd do that too, and blindly justify it. It's no point arguing with an illiterate, because rational debate is beyond their capability.
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@weshouldsaveourselves6780 you are an illiterate man calling others illiterate. Illiterates like you are always blind and stubbornly clinging to your illiteracy. Treatment of animals cannot be held hostage to your backward views. You seem to think that everyone should patiently sit listening to your religious speech. Nobody cares, we all have our own lives to live. When living in a country, obey its laws - or else don't live there. Majority of people in West believe that animals should not be subjected to cruelty, nor treated like inanimate objects such as rocks and stones. Don't like that? Then don't live there.
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@weshouldsaveourselves6780 Sikhs don't practice animal slaughter, don't lie. You seem to be imposing your Middle Eastern values on everyone and everything. You should calm down, instead of pretentiously lecturing others. Cruel animal slaughter is being banned, tough luck. Don't like it? Don't live there. Nation isn't going to change fundamental ethical positions just to cater to your bloodlust.
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@weshouldsaveourselves6780 I myself am not vegan, and eat every kind of meat, including pork. The bottom line is that cruelty during killing is the issue. You keep dodging and weaving -- it really shows how slippery your ethics are, and reflects badly on you.
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@weshouldsaveourselves6780 you're the one who's ranting, not me. Plenty of projection from you. Again, the laws of the land are what prevail, and if you don't like it, then don't live there.
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@weshouldsaveourselves6780 no, I don't agree. The laws are due to enlightenment, which various other parts of the world unfortunately did not go through. People from unenlightened places should not come over to enlightened lands to impose their barbaric medievalism on others, because it's not welcome. Opposition against cruelty to animals existed long before Muslim immigration, so it's ridiculous to claim that it's somehow aimed at Islam. It's not the fault of enlightened people if Islam chooses to remain bloodthirsty and cruel.
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@weshouldsaveourselves6780 none of that makes torture of animals acceptable. If someone out there drinks & drives and kills somebody, in no way that justify cruelty to animals. You are deflecting, as usual -- this is what irrational people do.
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@weshouldsaveourselves6780 you're trying to argue contrary to your own arguments, showing that you don't even believe what you previously said about animal suffering. If you want to first modify your Koran to include statements that plants & fruits suffer, then you should do that first, before trying to argue for something you don't even believe in as part of your religion.
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@weshouldsaveourselves6780 - No, plants do not feel pain, and have no brain to process pain. Animals feel pain, they have feelings, they experience distress. You only know how to keep yourself in denial, so that you can continue clinging to medieval beliefs. It's not the food that's important to you, it's the medievalism that is.
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@weshouldsaveourselves6780 show me in the Koran that it says plants & fruits feel pain, and then I'll believe your arguments are sincere, and not being made insincerely. Either way, it sounds like you're arguing against the Koran like a harami.
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@weshouldsaveourselves6780 so you've answered your own question for yourself, then. The rest of us non-Koranic people also believe that, and I've never heard different. So it's a common belief, then.
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@weshouldsaveourselves6780 Koran has not told me plants feel pain. So on what basis are you revising Koran? Are you starting a new religion now? A new offshoot? Please tell us about this new branch of Islam you're creating -- the tree branch.
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@weshouldsaveourselves6780 no, I don't think you understand that everybody else doesn't revolve around your Koran. The rest of us don't have to care what your Koran is. Just because Koran is important to you, doesn't mean it has to be important to the rest of us. Cruelty towards animals is what's important to the rest of the world, and the rest of the world will not revolve around you. There was also human slavery under the Koran, and slavery is something to feel bad about. It's not something where you say "well, if it's allowed under Koran, we don't have to apologize for it". Modern world has learned to live better than the teachings of your Koran, so we won't go back to the primitive barbaric days of human slavery or animal cruelty. You'll have to update to more modern ways, or you won't be accepted in modern society.
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@weshouldsaveourselves6780 you have not proven to me plants feel pain, you've just made assertions. You should only make the argument that plants feel pain if you yourself genuinely believe this. Otherwise if you are arguing for something that you yourself don't believe in, then you are showing that you have false beliefs.
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