Comments by "Awesome Avenger" (@awesomeavenger2810) on "Russia and Nato's Baltic war games: the Latvians caught on Europe's frontline" video.
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The Zeitgeist If, as you claim, eastern Europe was occupied by the 'soviet union' and not Russia, and the soviet union no longer exists, then by what right has Russia to demand anything from the territories the soviet union formally occupied?
You have already claimed that it was not Russia who occupied those countries. And that Russia was just part of the soviet union like any other part. If that is the case, then it it's just a question of one half of the soviet union wishing to join NATO. While the other half doesn't.
And where does punishment come into it? Eastern European countries simply wish to make their own alliances and pursue their own self interest. Just as Russia continues to do. Does Poland demand that Russia consult Warsaw before Putin makes alliances with the Chinese? Do the Lithuanians claim the right to dictate Russian foreign policy with Iran? After all, they were as much part of the USSR, yes?
In 1991, when Boris Yeltsin raised the question of Russia entering NATO, did Belarus invade Moscow? When Putin said in March 2000 that ''...We believe we can talk about a more profound integration with NATO'' and said he couldn't see any reason why Russia should not join NATO, did Ukraine invade southern Russia?
Why not? After all, someone in the US had given a verbal promise not to expand NATO, right? And Russia was, after all, just a part of the USSR like any other country.
Your problem is that you care nothing for the rights and freedoms of eastern European countries. You are just desperate to appease Putin because he threatens war.
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+Aaron Paul After the breakup of the soviet empire there were many Russians who found themselves in newly independent countries. Unwilling to return to Russia (after all, as you said many had been born where they lived), they were also unwilling to give up their Russian identity.
After the collapse of the Third Reich many Germans found themselves in the same position. Nazi Germany had encouraged German colonisation of eastern Europe in an attempt to snuff out occupied eastern European culture. And as I'm sure you know, they were ejected with the fall of Hitler's Germany.
The two examples are not exactly the same. German families were literally given the choice of whichever house they wanted. And the owners were then forcefully 'removed'. I haven't heard that the same happened with Russian 'colonisers' of the Baltics. But it is a fact that Russia worked hard to stamp out the cultures of those it occupied. And like much of eastern Europe, Latvia suffered terribly under Russian occupation.
So while the two situations are not entirely the same, the results are that there are many Russians still living in eastern Europe who do not consider themselves citizens of the country they live in. And just as the kremlin did in Transnistria in the early 90's, Putin is more than willing to use those Russian minorities to cause trouble (as he did in Ukraine).
The situation requires a fine balance of fairness, and understanding of Latvia's recent history and a recognition that Latvia and the other Baltic nations have a right to exist. And to make their own policies on Latvian citizenship.
As for NATO enlargement, there never was any agreement on not to expand eastwards. It was not mentioned in any treaty or document. As Russia had no right to demand anything from the countries they had occupied for so long. And besides, Putin himself at one time brought up the possibility of Russia joining NATO sometime in the future. He didn't feel the need to ask permission from Belarus or China, so why should the Baltics have worried about getting permission from Russia before joining NATO?
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Aaron Paul The reason why the OSCE didn't want anything to do with Putin's fake referendum is because it was illegal and vastly corrupt even by Russia's standards. Besides, if the OSCE had monitored the 'vote' there, what is to stop them doing it in, say, Kaliningrad after a German invasion? Anyone could pick apart Europe by annexing ethnic enclaves. You could pick apart Russia easily.
Kosovo had to wait years for its independence. It followed a long and very bloody war. While Crimea wasn't getting independence. It was simply annexed by Russia.
As to your possible alternate Ukrainian reality, you forgot the part when Yanukovych ordered Russian nationalists to gun down Ukrainians on the streets of their own capital city. You forgot the vast corruption (even by Ukrainian standards-Transparency International named President Yanukovych as the top example of corruption in the world). You forgot his breaking of the Ukrainian constitution. And you forgot the broken promise.
And that promise was for Ukraine to seek an Association Agreement with the EU. Putin's big mistake was to offer an ultimatum. You can either trade with Europe. Or trade with Russia. You can't do both. In order the ratchet up the pressure, Putin changed Russia's customs regulations on imports from Ukraine. So that in August 2013, the Russian Custom Service stopped all goods coming in from Ukraine.
Ukrainian's were given the choice between the EU (with all its faults) and Putin's 'Customs Union' of Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Russia, Did they want to be another Estonia or Poland. Or a Belarus? Ukrainians chose the EU.
In any western democracy, if a president or prime minister used armed thugs bussed in from an ethic enclave to kidnap, beat, and shoot people down on the street, they would've lost power overnight. But that is exactly what Yanukovych did. Then when an agreement had been signed with opposition groups that would have allowed him to remain in power, Yanukovych lost his nerve and fled the country. Calling on Russia to send in troops to reinstate him to power.
It was too late for Yanukovych's regime. But the Russians invaded anyway. They annexed Crimea outright. And crossed the border into eastern Ukraine, seized public buildings, and handed them over to far right nationalist Russian gangs. The evidence that the Russians were there is overwhelming. The so called government of the 'People's Republics' were even headed by ex-Russian military.
So now we have pretty much the same as what happened in Moldova and Georgia. Nationalist Russian separatists armed and financed by the kremlin. Another war. Relations between Russia and Ukraine ruined for a generation. Yet another enemy added to the Kremlin's long list. A reinvigorated NATO. And all because of Putin's zero sum foreign policy.
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The Zeitgeist Yes. I have heard the 'leaked' phone call. In the call, the Estonian foreign minister, Urmas Paet said he had been told snipers responsible for killing police and civilians in Kiev were protest movement provocateurs rather than supporters of then-president Viktor Yanukovych. Ashton responds: "I didn't know … Gosh."
During the conversation, Paet quoted a woman named Olga – who the Russian media identified as Olga Bogomolets, a doctor – blaming snipers from the opposition shooting the protesters.
However, Olga Bogomolets, the doctor, who allegedly claimed that protesters and Berkut troops came under fire from the same source, said she had not told Paet that policemen and protesters had been killed in the same manner, that she did not imply that the opposition was implicated in the killings, and that the government informed her that an investigation had been started
The Estonian foreign ministry said: "Foreign minister Paet was giving an overview of what he had heard in Kiev and expressed concern over the situation on the ground. We reject the claim that Paet was giving an assessment of the opposition's involvement in the violence."
Who knows what really went on? But it's certain that Russian special forces were on the ground there. Just as they were, and are, in eastern Ukraine. Moreover, we do know that police units had been given the order to kill protestors. We saw them. And I believe (altho I'd have to check), that Yanukovych's own security adviser at that time was Russian.
So you would have to ask yourself why it would've been necessary for the 'opposition' to snipe at the demonstrators. When the police were already shooting them dead in full view of the worlds media?.
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Uros L Stalin was every bit as bad as Hitler. The war in the east was simply between two mass murdering genocidal dictatorships. So why should anyone care about those Russians who fought for Stalin? They were as bad as the Germans who fought for Hitler.
The history of Russia's soviet empire is just one long list of misery, oppression, and genocide. I have sympathy for the millions of Russians who were victims of Stalin's murderous regime. Just as I have sympathy for the Germans who were victims of Hitler. But it was the western allies that brought freedom to Europe. Those unlucky enough to have been 'liberated' by the Russians continued to suffer until the final collapse of Russia's soviet empire.
Stalin's alliance with Hitler served Russia well up until the German invasion. Stalin added more territories to his empire. Expanding his brutal regime into Finland, Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and others. The Russians carried out mass deportations of whole ethnic groups and wiped out anyone who opposed them.
The brutality of the Russian occupation was such that, when the Germans began their invasion of Russia, many Latvians, Estonians, and Lithuanians were only too happy to join the fight alongside Hitler. And the same can be said for many Ukrainians who fought for Germany. This is of course something that many Russian propagandists like to highlight. 'The Ukrainian's joined the nazis'. But they conveniently ignore the history behind it. Because like the Baltics, if you know Ukraine's history, and what Russia did there, you'd know why they joined Germany.
For eastern Europe there was no liberation after the war. They remained part of Stalin's empire. When the Russians returned to the Baltics, they exacted a terrible revenge against the people there. The numbers of people who were exiled to gulag concentration camps in Siberia run into the hundreds of thousands. And remember, the Baltics have only ever had a small population.
But of course, if you already knew all of this, you would understand why the Baltics and eastern Europe in general don't want Russia back. And you would understand why they don't trust a KGB man in the kremlin. And as we can all see what Putin is doing in Ukraine and Syria, and what he did to Chechnya and Georgia, you would also understand why they are correct in thinking that.
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Uros L Saddam was a dictator. One of the worst. People often say that dictators bring stability. But they don't. Saddam didn't. Gaddafi didn't. And Assad didn't. Because eventually, if people can't get rid of a leader by legal means, they will take to the streets and do it by force.
It happened in Russia several times. It happened recently in Syria, Tunisia, and Libya. If they're lucky, and they fight for it, they get something better in its place. Often they get something worse. Either way, they suffer decades of dictatorship. And the cost of having to remove it.
That's the beauty of being able to elect your government. You can get rid of it peacefully and without cost to life.
One of the ways to tell if you live in a dictatorship is whether or not the media can criticize those who hold power. In the west, that's normal. You can watch CNN, Fox, BBC, whatever, and they all freely criticize the government.
No media in Iraq or Syria or Libya or North Korea would have ever dared to have done that.
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