Comments by "Awesome Avenger" (@awesomeavenger2810) on "Gove says EU ‘refusing to negotiate’ on Brexit" video.

The Brexit deal on offer is worse than no deal. And has been rejected 3 times in parliament. That shouldn't be too difficult to understand. People didn't vote to leave the EU for economic reasons. They did so because they don't want political union with Europe. Referendums mean absolutely nothing if you don't enact the result, but simply rerun them again and again up until you get the result you want. The EU doesn't want the UK to leave. Because if the UK leaves, others might one day follow. The Irish border issue is the way they hope to stop the UK from leaving. Making it as unpalatable as possible. Only by doing that, they run a very serous risk of their bluff being called - a no deal Brexit. That will be a disaster for EU-UK relations for some considerable time to come. An unnecessary disaster that could be averted if the EU took Brexit seriously, and negotiated a serious leave deal on the assumption that the UK is going to leave.
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@Firefoxfifty The EU has no money of its own. That funding came from member states. Like the UK. One of the few that pay in more than they take out - You're welcome.
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@garybarrett4881 Not at all. It's quite easy to understand the concept of no deal being better than a bad deal. After all, if you've already decided to leave, why would you accept a deal that makes it worse?
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@petewalsh2286 To an extent thats true. But then everyone goes into negotiations in the hope of getting what they want. The problem is that the EU is a political union as well as a trading block. And the majority decided that while trade is a good thing, they don't want political union. And I agree with them.
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Darth Remainer You're a good example why remain lost the referendum. Nihilism and defeat only appeals to so many people.
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@naaldvoerder You're basically reheating the same arguments used against Ttip. Only back then it was Brussels bargaining away the NHS to the big bad USA. Play another tune. That one is getting boring.
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The EU already have risked peace there. As they're the only ones threatening to put up a hard border there.
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@speedyhillski It'll be disastrous for the Republic of Ireland otherwise. And the EU don't want to be the ones to beak the GFA.
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Yes it does. because that is precisely the same tactic they've been playing
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@Aaron Giles There's nothing wrong with someone wanting a federal Europe. But in order for that to happen they first have to be honest about what they want. And then get the consent of the people. Which they clearly haven't got. And when that desire for political union harms trade, then I would argue its time for a rethink. But thats up to the EU. There are plenty of successful countries outside the EU. And the UK will join them.
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@diarmuidkelleher5319 Its already been rejected by parliament 3 times. So its dead.
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@Nobby Heads So if I suggested that Europe join the US and be governed from Washington, most Europeans would be fine with that? Lol. I don't think so. And might I suggest that you not play the 'dreams of old empire' card. As mainland Europe has a very long history of that too (and worse besides).
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@diarmuidkelleher5319 Hey, could be worse. At least the UK doesn't have Le Pen and the AFD!
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I hardly think the UK would have offered to give away £39 billion for nothing. It was a deal negotiated between the two. But rejected by parliament 3 times. So if the EU doesn't start talking, the UK leaves with no deal.
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Its about time Brussels took Brexit seriously. Because what happens now will effect future relations between the EU and the UK for a long time to come.
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@speedyhillski In the event of a no deal Brexit, expect the EU to miraculously change their tune on the Irish border issue - Both the Irish government and Germans have already discussed plans that will allow checks on goods without the need of a hard border.
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@mariuszfurman6531 Nope. The GFA simply commits both sides to avoiding a hard border. Its not a treaty that binds the UK into the EU.
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@lesigh1749 The EU had nothing to do with Russia's invasion of Georgia or Ukraine. Both those countries are independent states. And can therefore trade and make alliances with who they wish. The fault was with Russia. As it considers neither country to be fully independent. Hence its invasion of both when those countries acted as independent countries.
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@Aaron Giles Certainly when it comes to membership of the EU, even its loudest supporters in the UK are very unwilling to even admit federalisation is a thing. Much less argue in its defence. But politicians can only really be honest about their preferred outcome. About what direction they hope to be heading.
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@nhlazyarse The EU is not socialist. But clearly some people have no idea where EU money comes from. As was in evidence every time anyone in the remain campaign mentioned the benefits of EU subsidies, without saying who payed for them.
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@Aaron Giles The EU decided to make Brexit as painful as possible, in order to stop the UK from leaving. And they used the Northern Ireland border issue to do that. Those who campaigned for remain have now gone back on their promise to respect the referendum result. With the leaders of the Lib Dems and Greens both saying that if they got to rerun the referendum, they still would not accept the result if it went against them a second time. Along with the labour party vowing to vote against any leave deal the tories put forward (and even their own deal, if they were in a position to make one), the EU doesnt see it worth their while to negotiate. Because its unlikely parliament would ever vote for any leave deal no matter what it is. So why would they bother? So we have a combination of EU high risk taking in the hope of preventing the UK from leaving, along with parliament going back on their word and voting against anything that makes Brexit possible, pushing the country towards a no deal Brexit. Pretty ironic, really. This could have been avoided if the remain campaign had recognised the referendum result as they promised they would. Thats why we put things to the vote, after all. Because they can't win. Even if they got their hoped for rerun of the referendum, and somehow won it, the remain campaign would now simply do as they did and ignore the result. Because you can't opt out of the democratic process when it goes against you, then opt in when it goes your way, and expect others not to follow your lead. I don't like throwing the word 'traitor' around. But I know a lot of people who voted leave do. And you have to admit that in some respects they have a point. Why is it that we had Blair and others from the remain campaign running off to Brussels to give advice on how best to undermine the UK's negotiations? Can you imagine that being a thing at any other time? And why is it that, having lost the vote, the remain campaign are now cheering on nationalists working to break up the UK, like, 'if I can't get my way, no one gets anything'? Many people need to be reassessing their loyalties. The democratic process? Or Brussels? You can't have both. But you are right. When this all over, everyone is gonna have to get along with everyone else. Because the world is not going to come to an end. The sky is not going to fall. And remainers will not be vindicated by saying 'I told you so' just as their longed for apocalypse descends. Life will go on.
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@Aaron Giles Once the UK leaves the EU it would be political suicide for any party to advocate rejoining. EU membership is not a revolving door. And whether the UK would want to join whatever federalised entity the EU is in the future, I doubt it. If parties like the lib dems always vote against the result of any referendum that goes against them, it really calls into question what is the point in holding any referendum on any subject at all? Because if the lib dems do it, why not every other party? And don't forget, it was the Lib Dems who originally called for an 'in or out' referendum on EU membership back in 2008-9. At this point they are simply attempting to wreak any kind of progress at all. Of course, they could still campaign to rejoin. As Farage said, he would continue to campaign for leave. But first you would expect the result of the vote to be implemented. A party can lose an election and still campaign to win a future election. What they can't do is prevent the winning party from taking power.
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@42earthling And parliament has rejected the deal - probably a good thing too. So expect a no deal Brexit.
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@diarmuidkelleher5319 Nope. Nigel Farage is not a Le Pen, and neither is he far right. He left Ukip. Since then the party has wandered off into the wilderness of the far right. And has suffered because of it. It is a spent force.
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@petewalsh2286 The EU doesn't fund the NHS at all. In fact, it siphons away taxpayer cash that could be used for the NHS, and for the disabled and poor. The UK doesn't need the EU to legislate for worker rights and protections. And we know why people voted to leave the EU, and it had nothing to do with tax evasion ffs.
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@Coldheart322 It was predicted soon after the referendum result that the remain campaign would call for a rerun. And they would concoct some bs logic in order to split the leave vote.
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@Coldheart322 We're talking about the remain campaign. Not some guy on the internet.
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@petewalsh2286 If you admit that the EU doesn't fund the NHS, then why bring up the fact that they aren't responsible for cutting NHS spending? - They wouldn't be responsible for any increases in NHS spending either. So why are you conflating the two? But the EU does take UK taxpayer money that could be better spent investing in the NHS. And the UK government is answerable to UK voters. The fact that you don't like them isn't an argument against democratic accountability.
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@petewalsh2286 Ah. Well, the logic of your sarcasm was wrong then. Because people didn't vote to leave the EU because they blamed it for spending cuts. Or for the mess the last government left the country's finances in that necessitated those cuts - They could've just voted against the tories if thats how they felt. They voted to leave because they didn't want political union with the rest of Europe. So you're kinda arguing against a point no one has made. Which is why you never get anywhere.
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