Comments by "JLH" (@Kyarrix) on "Bread science expert: can bread ever be healthy? | Dr. Vanessa Kimbell and Prof. Tim Spector" video.

@thomasrobinson4401 That's unnecessarily judgmental and potentially sexist also. Are you evaluating the men's appearance when you decide whether to take their advice or not? This is the kind of comment that is so irksome because it's smug and ugly. You can agree with the original comment, without taking a pot shot at some woman's appearance. Why would you ever think of doing that? Why would that even occur to you? It doesn't with regard to the men, check yourself please. Where does the impulse come from?
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The throwaway comment towards the end where Jonathan smilingly talks about how you wouldn't just buy a bottle of wine without looking at the label as an analogy for buying bread was awful. Are these videos intended only for the upper middle class? In his universe, buying a bottle of wine is a daily habitual thing, the analogy came to him so freely. Can you imagine how that comparison would land for the vast majority? It's obviously tone deaf but it goes beyond that.
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@kst157 I think this is why you're being met with hostility. You are unwilling to acknowledge the validity of an obvious point of view and you keep coming back with additional comments. I've already said the conversation is over. I tried courtesy but you don't seem to be interested in that. The point being made was that Jonathan comes across as out of touch and condescending. Grocery prices are soaring, people are struggling to keep food on the table. If you want to offer advice, frame it in such a way that you are relatable, rather than lording it over the poors. A smug middle class white man sitting back and smilingly making an analogy about bread and wine is not relatable. Please note that I will not see any further responses as you are now muted. You would do better to be open to the views of others, double down less, think more. When people try to explain something to me, even if they seem wrong, I try to listen on the assumption that they might have something useful to say.
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Sourdough bread is made with a sourdough starter. It is fermented flour and water usually kept in a jar that you feed every day or every couple of days. The feeding process entails adding flour and water and discarding some of it so you don't end up with a huge amount of starter. Or using some of it. People sometimes refer to the starter as the mother. There's an entire (somewhat pretentious) jargon that has grown up around sourdough. It's not surprising, every interest group develops its own special terminology. Unfortunately that same jargon excludes others who aren't in the know. What you should avoid in the supermarket is processed bread and processed food in general. If the bread comes in a plastic bag, it's processed. Try to find sourdough bread that is made by a person or bakery that takes pride in making a healthier product. This is very difficult to find and extremely uncommon. For that reason most people who want to eat bread but also want to be healthy, end up learning about sourdough and baking in general in order to be able to bake bread themselves. That learning process can be fun and provide community but it's definitely a process. If you have time, even with the barriers to entry it's worth doing. There are some good books and guides out there that explain the process clearly and are more friendly to beginners. I don't have a sourdough starter. I was going to start one but never did because I try to avoid eating lots of carbohydrates in general. I love to bake though and good sourdough bread is incredible. A good loaf of sourdough bread has as much in common with supermarket bread as a fast food burger has with a filet mignon. If you have any questions or want anything clarified, I'm happy to help.
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@kst157 that has nothing to do with the comment he made which is correct. Framing the conversation in a less middle class manner would be helpful. Most people do not go and buy a bottle of wine with their bread. It was tone deaf and it struck me that way also.
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@kst157 I think you're missing the point. How an argument is presented affects how it will be received. If the person offering good advice couches it in such a way that it is tone deaf and offensive, it won't be received. It's great that you think Jonathan offers good advice. I hope that advice is indeed useful for you and beneficial. The point being made here was that in a time of scarcity with grocery prices going ever higher for a white middle-class man to sit back and make an analogy that does not fit the vast majority was ill advised. When we come across as privileged and out of touch, our advice, even if good, it's less likely to be taken. It is not incumbent upon us to be thankful. The people behind this channel make money from it. It is both reasonable and appropriate to point out issues that need improvement. I hope I've clarified this for you, either way the conversation is not over. Have a great day.
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@risenshine2783 I think you misunderstood the intent of the comment. He was making the point that with food prices so high and people struggling to put food on the table, casting the conversation in less entitled, less middle class terms is useful. How an idea is presented, the affect of the person presenting it, matters. Jonathan comes across with his smiling analogies about bottles of wine, as out of touch. It has precisely nothing to do with racism and everything to do with a certain tone deafness regarding how people are struggling.
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@tonyhawkins1258 I'm not vilifying him for being a white middle class man. I'm not vilifying him at all. I pointed out that the analogy he made was not a good one. These videos are intended to provide help and advice for the general public. How well do you think Jonathan's tone deafness goes over? We are post pandemic in a time of scarcity, the majority do not buy a bottle of wine with their bread. Coming across as a condescending ass, out of touch with reality is not a good look. Many professionals start out poor. People work hard and those are the people I would listen to. A white middle class man who is out of touch with reality, who frequently condescends to people he speaks to is not someone I would take advice from. Doctors, professors, researchers are not by definition middle class. When people work hard and attain a measure of security that does not mean that they should sit back smilingly and condescend in a time of scarcity.
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If an individual doesn't already speak the lingo of sourdough bread they won't understand your comment. Someone above stated that he won't be putting his mother in the fridge. I clarified for him, explaining that a sourdough starter is sometimes referred to as the mother. It's worth paying attention to, to avoid excluding people who are not already in the know.
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Great comment. I hope that those behind the channel heed your suggestion. I am close to unsubscribing.
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@risenshine2783 And here we have it. Garden variety troll. You're nasty to someone, I try to point out the reasoning and you default to "nah ah, it's you." Do a lot better. If you behave this way to strangers online, you aren't a kind or happy person. Please don't bother responding, you're muted. It's not worth my energy to engage with trolls. You don't have to remain one though, it's in your power to change.
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@L4LTVuk Do you think this video is intended for an Italian and French audience? I've lived in several different countries, I speak several languages. This is a valid point you're making but I don't think it applies to this video. I stand by what I said, Jonathan comes across us out of touch and his analogy could have been better made. Right now we are in a time of postpandemic, grocery prices are very high and people are struggling. Making an analogy that was slightly less upper middle class would have been advisable. You have no idea what culturally defines me, you might be surprised if I were to share that information. The point related to the intended audience for this video and how Jonathan comes across. Particularly now, with people struggling for food on the table.
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@L4LTVuk I think you're one of the people you are calling out. You see it frequently, someone criticizes others for the exact thing they are doing. The point made is correct. Many people are struggling, making an analogy that is quite so starkly upper class when the video is intended for a wider audience was ill advised. You are bending over backwards to criticize people for making an apt point. Pointing out problems that are easily fixed is not quibbling. Your perspective is odd, it seems that in the guise of defending the video you are looking for people to argue with. Please stop, it's tedious and irritating.
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@L4LTVuk No, you're tedious because you understand the points being made and you are willfully ignoring them in order to have something to argue about. It's tedious when a person understands an issue but then accuses others of doing exactly what they are doing. These are the issues that are tedious. Do better, try to figure out why you are doing this and address that.
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@L4LTVuk muted
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