Comments by "coolmodelguy" (@coolmodelguy6304) on "The Majority Report w/ Sam Seder"
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Bill Gates 2% annual wealth tax on $20 billion would be $400 million. No one of his stature would settle for less than a 5% rate of return on his invested wealth, so even after he paid the 2% his net worth (at 5% RoR) his fortune would still grow by $600 million.
The problem no one is talking about is this: The 1% have over $30 trillion in idle wealth which they "invest" for a rate of return. There is also $28 trillion in retirement savings which is also invested for growth, which must be a RoR over inflation and fees. I don't know how much of an overlap there is between the retirement savings and the 1%'s accumulated wealth, so for the sake of simplicity, lets ignore the retirement savings in the following math which illustrates the problem few seem to grasp.
Our U.S. economy is just shy of $20 trillion in annual GDP with a growth rate (in 2018) of 2.56%
The 1% are "investing" at a RoR of over 5%, (S&P 500 index funds have paid over 9% since 1994). That is $30 trillion seeking a rate of return in a $20 trillion annual economy. The economy GDP grew by $560 billion in 2018. The RoR on $30 trillion at 5% is a trillion and a half dollars ($1.5 trillion) Can you see the problem yet?
To pay the 1% their RoR, all of the GDP gains for 2018 are eliminated, plus an additional $940 billion skimmed directly out of the economy. This is done by raising the price of health care, housing and whatever else can be used by financial institutions to extract wealth from us, all the while calling that extraction "product" or "production in the economy". That extraction from us is actually counted by these criminals as part of the economic growth for the year.
In reality the economy is shrinking, the numbers are being skewed to hide this from us. What we really need to do is dump this 2% on wealth tax, instead we need to put a hard cap on accumulated wealth for individuals and corporations. This much . . . no more. This whole "incentives" argument is bullshit to cover up the scam they are pulling on us. I say we cap wealth accumulation at $10 million, that is plenty to live a life of luxury and it will stop wealthy people from buying our politics and shaping government policy.
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Remarkable how the federal government has empty pockets for funding
no-cost college tuition, or fully funding health care for our citizens,
or fully funding our needed infrastructure upgrades, or fully fund a
jobs guarantee program, or funding to end homelessness among U.S.
citizens . . . especially for the 60,000 homeless veterans.
Remarkable that for anything morally or economically uplifting for our
citizens, the U.S. federal pockets are empty, yet . . . Wall Street
needs bailing out, or the military needs greater funding for endless
warfare, or corporations need tax breaks and the federal government will
bend over backwards and run up huge federal debt to accommodate that!
What have "We the People" gotten in return for 21 Trillion dollars in
accumulated federal debt over 45 years? Absolutely nothing. Something
has to change people! Not just a Blue-Wave folks, something else has to
fundamentally change.
We have a minimum wage, now it is time to put a maximum cap on
individual and family accumulation of wealth. I'm not talking about
taking away all of our "embarrassed millionaires" right to earn those
millions . . . but come on now, be realistic! How many of us has ever
seen five million in earnings over a lifetime of working? If you earn
$50,000 annually . . . the most wealth you could possibly accumulate
over a working life of 30 years is 1.5 million dollars and that is only
if you saved every penny and paid no taxes!
If the rest of you folks are like me, I have no problem capping all
family wealth accumulation for a lifetime at $50 million dollars with a
95% inheritance tax to avoid dynastic wealth accumulation. That comes
out roughly at $1.75 million earned after taxes annually. Virtually
every single problem facing us as a human society has its roots embedded
in those very few of us who are morbidly wealthy. With the exception of
asteroid strikes and possibly earthquakes and volcanoes, every single
problem we have stems from accumulated wealth in the hands of very few
human beings. Eliminate that morbid excess that with a simple wealth and
earnings cap, then most of our problems will disappear and many others
will find logical solutions that were being stifled by wealthy
individuals who wielded power far in excess of the ONE VOTE they are
legally entitled to.
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@JAM - What you have failed to do in your comparison between these people is some basic math, which will show that your "Wealth Tax will not work" statement is completely bogus.
The 1% are "investing" at a RoR of over 5%, (S&P 500 index funds have paid over 9% since 1994). That is $30 trillion seeking a rate of return in a $20 trillion annual economy. The economy GDP grew by $560 billion in 2018. The RoR on $30 trillion at 5% is a trillion and a half dollars ($1.5 trillion) Can you see the problem yet?
To pay the 1% their RoR, all of the GDP gains for 2018 are eliminated, plus an additional $940 billion skimmed directly out of the economy. This is done by raising the price of health care, housing and whatever else can be used by financial institutions to extract wealth from us, all the while calling that extraction "product" or "production in the economy". That extraction from us is actually counted by these criminals as part of the economic growth for the year.
In reality the economy is shrinking, the numbers are being skewed to hide this from us. What we really need to do is dump this 2% on wealth tax, instead we need to put a hard cap on accumulated wealth for individuals and corporations. This much . . . no more. This whole "incentives" argument is bullshit to cover up the scam they are pulling on us. I say we cap wealth accumulation at $10 million, that is plenty to live a life of luxury and it will stop wealthy people from buying our politics and shaping government policy.
This is why Warren should get a "sit down" with Bill Gates, he is a lying sack of shit and she knows the math. This is also why Bill Gates will never agree to a sit down with Warren.
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@AaronMinerRunicfire - I wholeheartedly agree that excess accumulation of wealth arises from the rules we establish regarding property, which is why the wealth and ownership cap must be in front, rather than behind property ownership reforms.
First off, I want to establish that private ownership is essential to our society if we want to maintain personal freedoms. Each person must have the lawfully established right to own their home, their car, their clothes, their tools. Everything that is personally used on an everyday basis and is held to be important to each individual person, is an item of individual private property ownership that needs to be protected by law.
This lawfully established right of personal property ownership must not however, extend to property which involves the community and society. Here is a commonly accepted example, this aspect of property rights is already well established with respect to roads, with very few exceptions. This is because we communally use the roads, therefor we communally own the roads through our states.
There are however private property rights which do hold sway over many aspects of communally used property, the use of which is arranged in such a manner as to disproportionately represent the interests of the owner over the community and society. The workplace is a prime example of a privately owned property which is essential to the community, it is also a prime example of lawfully established private property rights which disproportionately favors the individual over the community and therefor is is a rule that must be altered to favor the community over the individual.
The problem that I have been forced to face head on is one of messaging. "boggisthecat" has an excellent point when referring to peoples beliefs. People believe in capitalism, not because it works in their favor but because they believe in the mythology that has been deliberately built up to surround capitalism in a protective shell.
I am in complete agreement with most of what you have written, and I particularly enjoyed your snippet on the Mutualist "occupancy and use" rule . . . for which I am in full accord. The real problem we face when trying to change property ownership rules or the many other battle arenas such as "Fight for $15", "Medicare for All", "Climate Change", "Free College" and "Worker Co-ops" . . . is that although each one is important in its own right, the myriad of battle banners has the effect of diluting any effective central messaging and is subject to erosion attacks from the mass of accumulated private wealth and it attendant mythos, which are expertly wielded by legions of lobbyists as weapons against these needed policy changes.
Therefor, if we are going to institute and maintain effective reforms to private property laws, we must have an extremely simple and very effective propaganda weapon of our own, something which is a vanguard behind which all other reforms form up to support the hardened tip of the spear . . . a propaganda weapon easily understood and able to be wielded by the masses.
This is why I have chosen to focus my attention on the toxicity of hoarded wealth and the need to do something to eliminate it. Every line of inquiry I have made has its own unique path but they all arrive at the same destination, the over accumulation of wealth for the sake of power. A wealth cap and ownership cap is not the sole answer to the problems, instead it is the foundation and anchor point for the rule and law changes which must be made in order to save humanity. We must face the reality of our situation, unlimited wealth accumulation has lead us down the most dangerous path in our history . . . the end of organized intelligent life upon the earth. People need a banner and a war cry to rally behind . . . everything else comes after. That is why we must focus our attention on a wealth and ownership cap, it is simple and easy for the common person to believe in.
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Bill Gates 2% annual wealth tax on $20 billion would be $400 million. No one of his stature would settle for less than a 5% rate of return on his invested wealth, so even after he paid the 2% his net worth (at 5% RoR) his fortune would still grow by $600 million.
The problem no one is talking about is this: The 1% have over $30 trillion in idle wealth which they "invest" for a rate of return. There is also $28 trillion in retirement savings which is also invested for growth, which must be a RoR over inflation and fees. I don't know how much of an overlap there is between the retirement savings and the 1%'s accumulated wealth, so for the sake of simplicity, lets ignore the retirement savings in the following math which illustrates the problem few seem to grasp.
Our U.S. economy is just shy of $20 trillion in annual GDP with a growth rate (in 2018) of 2.56%
The 1% are "investing" at a RoR of over 5%, (S&P 500 index funds have paid over 9% since 1994). That is $30 trillion seeking a rate of return in a $20 trillion annual economy. The economy GDP grew by $560 billion in 2018. The RoR on $30 trillion at 5% is a trillion and a half dollars ($1.5 trillion) Can you see the problem yet?
To pay the 1% their RoR, all of the GDP gains for 2018 are eliminated, plus an additional $940 billion skimmed directly out of the economy. This is done by raising the price of health care, housing and whatever else can be used by financial institutions to extract wealth from us, all the while calling that extraction "product" or "production in the economy". That extraction from us is actually counted by these criminals as part of the economic growth for the year.
In reality the economy is shrinking, the numbers are being skewed to hide this from us. What we really need to do is dump this 2% on wealth tax, instead we need to put a hard cap on accumulated wealth for individuals and corporations. This much . . . no more. This whole "incentives" argument is bullshit to cover up the scam they are pulling on us. I say we cap wealth accumulation at $10 million, that is plenty to live a life of luxury and it will stop wealthy people from buying our politics and shaping government policy.
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@Gamenetreviews - You have a very shallow argument there Game.
Bill Gates 2% annual wealth tax on $20 billion would be $400 million. No one of his stature would settle for less than a 5% rate of return on his invested wealth, so even after he paid the 2% his net worth (at 5% RoR) his fortune would still grow by $600 million.
The problem no one is talking about is this: The 1% have over $30 trillion in idle wealth which they "invest" for a rate of return. There is also $28 trillion in retirement savings which is also invested for growth, which must be a RoR over inflation and fees. I don't know how much of an overlap there is between the retirement savings and the 1%'s accumulated wealth, so for the sake of simplicity, lets ignore the retirement savings in the following math which illustrates the problem few seem to grasp.
Our U.S. economy is just shy of $20 trillion in annual GDP with a growth rate (in 2018) of 2.56%
The 1% are "investing" at a RoR of over 5%, (S&P 500 index funds have paid over 9% since 1994). That is $30 trillion seeking a rate of return in a $20 trillion annual economy. The economy GDP grew by $560 billion in 2018. The RoR on $30 trillion at 5% is a trillion and a half dollars ($1.5 trillion) Can you see the problem yet?
To pay the 1% their RoR, all of the GDP gains for 2018 are eliminated, plus an additional $940 billion skimmed directly out of the economy. This is done by raising the price of health care, housing and whatever else can be used by financial institutions to extract wealth from us, all the while calling that extraction "product" or "production in the economy". That extraction from us is actually counted by these criminals as part of the economic growth for the year.
In reality the economy is shrinking, the numbers are being skewed to hide this from us. What we really need to do is dump this 2% on wealth tax, instead we need to put a hard cap on accumulated wealth for individuals and corporations. This much . . . no more. This whole "incentives" argument is bullshit to cover up the scam they are pulling on us. I say we cap wealth accumulation at $10 million, that is plenty to live a life of luxury and it will stop wealthy people from buying our politics and shaping government policy.
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@Gamenetreviews - All that education from a high ranked university and your top "low" school has not taught you how to spell. The word is "taunt", not "taught".
You, my friend, are brainwashed. You have swallowed all the capitalist propaganda furnished by "high ranked" universities that rely on endowments and gifts from the libertarian leaning Koch's and their ilk. It appears I have several decades on you in the "real world", which have taught me far more than your vaunted university education. You should try it sometime, you certainly are lacking real world credentials.
Strong or even weak capitalism is not required for future growth or technological innovation, in fact capitalism is an extreme detriment to both growth and technological innovation. A majority of technological innovations have been birthed due to socialism, not capitalism, especially here in the United States. I could give you lessons, but in order to not waste my valuable time, you would have to prove that your brain has not been too far rotted by the propaganda you have absorbed.
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@Gamenetreviews _ Funny how you keep assigning a source in order to justify your corrupt beliefs. What I wrote about is common knowledge and straight forward math, not a reference to Marx or Picketty. What you are referring to when you cite Google, Facebook or Koch Industries are capitalist monopolies, which is another name for the executioner of small businesses and innovation. The billionaires that have resulted from these monopolies exploit labor and extract wealth from the rest of us, that is not growth, it is cannibalism.
Furthermore, the trope that capitalism is the source of innovation and invention is entirely incorrect. The U.S. taxpayers paid for the research and development of the internet, the computer as we now know it, and most of the technology that goes into cell phones. In other words it was socialism that developed the tools of our modern society. Capitalism merely exploited those technologies and made monopolies out of them. Capitalist only care about quarterly profits, they cannot make long term investments because they only think about their short term bottom line, so they steal the results of our long term investments paid for with our tax dollars so they can be exploited.
All you have to justify your support of the capitalist system are lies and propaganda. Keep it up and get used to watching your back, the people will not stand for this bullshit much longer. If you keep going down this blatantly dishonest path, the modern equivalent of the pitchfork will be your reward.
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@boggisthecat - I have not read Chomsky, however I have listened to him speak many times. The greatest influences on my thinking have been Noam Chomsky, Richard Wolff, Chris Hedges, Mark Blythe, Robert Reich, Stephanie Kelton, David Harvey, Ralph Nader, Michael Hudson, Thom Hartmann . . . . There are others but that list is off the top of my head.
To your point about beliefs and belief systems. There are simple one-liners that permeate deep seated belief systems. For instance, when you ask a room full of people if they believe in god they will answer with a simple yes or no. For those that say yes, the reasons why they believe in god vary but for the most part it is because that is what their parents believe and it was passed down to them. Once you start digging in with questions, it becomes very apparent that out of the entire room, very few if any go to church and almost none have read the bible. For most people there is no real reason why they believe in god, they just do because that is the accepted mythology passed down through the generations.
Same thing with capitalism, when you ask the same room full of people if they believe in capitalism the resounding answer will be yes. When you ask why, most people will respond that capitalism lifts people out of poverty. It does not matter if that answer is true or not to these people, they are just regurgitating the mythology they have been taught.
Unfortunately, most belief systems do not rely of facts, they rely on simple truisms whether the truisms be actually true or not. Capitalism has an entire mythos surrounding it like a protective shell, a set of beliefs or assumptions built up over time to preserve the capitalist power. For this very reason, I have been seeking the counter agent to this built up mythos . . . something simple that will act as the tip of the spear in order to pierce the mythos and render it vulnerable to attack.
Now I'm going to swing back to my opening statement. No reform can stand over time because accumulated wealth (individual and corporate) will attack, erode and eliminate the reform. To defeat this menace once and for all, there must be a rallying cry which is also a weapon, something that is simple to wield and understand . . . which is also irrefutably true. The way our enemies operate is to dilute, erode and destroy. This is why the many battle banners such as "Fight for $15", "Medicare for All", "Climate Change", "Free College" and "Worker Co-ops" . . . .they are all incredibly vulnerable to attack via dilution, erosion and outright destruction by the powers of capitalism because capitalism wields its wealth mythos like a weapon. We must come up with an equally powerful weapon of our own to defeat the mythos of capitalism, a weapon of propaganda that is simple to understand and wield. In other words, we must create our own belief system based on a simple truth.
The simplest truth I have been able to distill from all of my research is that wealth over-accumulation is toxic, just like alcohol is toxic in too large a quantity. Therefor it stands to reason that this simple truth must be the tip of the spear and all other reforms are part of the spear . . . but they must follow the tip. A spear is useless without a sharp tip, so also are these many reforms useless without the tip of the spear which creates the opening to deal the fatal blow to capitalism as we know it.
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Alpha Crusader - Is that the limit of your thinking? Really now, where do you think money comes from in the first place? In addition, who is really "earning" all that money once a person or family has accumulated 50 million dollars in wealth?
First answer, all money belongs to the people of the nation that issued the currency. That is the peoples money, not yours or mine. Second answer, A person might reasonable earn up to a couple hundred thousand dollars per year . . . but after that, any further money is being "earned", is really being earned by people other than the person pocketing it. So really, it is about time some people who have enough money already, to stop stealing money other people have earned . . . don't you think???.
Finally, not lol because nothing about this is funny.
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