Comments by "" (@hamlet557) on "KaiserBauch"
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@avitalsheva I'm greek, I used to believe that Turks are Europeans, that's why I have travelled several times, I have friends and I learnt enough turkish to talk to people who don't speak english at all (and they are the vast majority). There is a whole world outside the touristic parts, even within Istanbul.
Living in Europe, enjoying the European lifestyle, having European girlfriends is nice and many people say they like it.
But what if your WIFE wants to have the same freedoms and rights as european women? What if your DAUGHTER wants to go out, drink beer and have a boyfriend? You'll see that very often their views change.
I have met Pakistanis, Egyptians and even Afghans who are educated and secular, but they are a tiny minority and don't represent their country. Secular Iranians in Europe, you'll see that they are way more progressive and better integrated.
The difference between Europeans are mostly socio-economic. Poor vs rich. As Balkan and southern and member of the infamous PIGS, I know what you mean.
But the family structure isn't so different. The opinions about freedom of press, aren't so different.
The family of a Slovakian GIRL wouldn't shun them if they date a "westerner".
Generally when I choose my friends, of course I'll judge them as persons and not by their nationality. But when I have opinions about a nation, I look at the opinions, culture and way of living of the whole nation and not from the 5-10 people who I happen to know. Election results are pretty eye opening sometimes. When someone keeps voting islamistic it's not a coincidence.
The last elections were bad for Erdogan. But if you look better, you'll see that he lost many votes to a MORE islamistic party.
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@avitalsheva Of course they'd be angry we messed up, I was angry myself. I was happy that we received help even though at times we didn't even deserve it, but at least we are doing ok now and we'll be able to help another country that might get in trouble.
But we are all part of the European history, we are nations that fought so hard in WW2, we exchausted ourselves and decided to never do it again. Most of Europe had to suffer communist regimes, Greece and Spain suffered civil wars communists vs anticommunists and we learnt to accept each other and live together.. This shaped European identity in the 20th century, and it's taboo to threaten each other with war. We don't do that any more, we learnt to solved our disputes in civilized manner.
Turkey didn't go through that process and formed a very different identity.
Since you mentioned the Greek crisis, in these troubled times it was even more obvious that we are together. For example a Spaniard voting for Podemos was closer to a Greek leftist than a center-right Spaniard. Even now, if a left leaning European criticizes the current center-right greek government, greek leftists will agree with the "foreigners" and don't feel the pressure to support their national government. I've noticed the same attitude in all European nations.
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