doveton sturdee
War Stories
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Comments by "doveton sturdee" (@dovetonsturdee7033) on "When Britain Stood Alone: The Complete Story Of The Battle Of Britain | Full Series | War Stories" video.
@Dennis-JDB Actually, the Bengal Famine had a number of causes, among which were the number of refugees from Japanese held areas, the inability to import food from those same areas, stockpiling by hoarders and, perhaps worst of all, the Bengal administration, which tried to minimise the crisis. The worst that could be said of Churchill was that he should have known what was taking place, but didn't. After all, in 1943, he had little else to worry about.
You could also add the refusal of FDR to allow the transfer of merchant shipping, by the way. What is without dispute, except by those who choose to blame Churchill for everything since the Black Death, is that once he did find out, he transferred food distribution to the British Indian Army, and had grain convoys diverted from Australia to India.
Moreover, why would anyone be foolish enough to manufacture a famine in India when 2.5 million Indians were serving with the allied forces. None of which, by the way, were conscripts.
Furthermore, you seem to think that the 1943 Famine was a one off event. Was Churchill responsible for the famines of 1670, 1770, 1873, 1951, 1971, & 1974 as well?
I appreciate, of course, that you won't believe any of this, as it doesn't suit your obvious agenda.
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A strange, distorted, opinion you have. Certainly, ther Commonwealth and Empire did aid Britain greatly in WW2, but not as early as 1940. There were, in September of that year, only one (Canadian) division and three (Australian & New Zealand) brigades in Britain.
The United States was neutral, selling supplies and equipment to Britain. Greece, Brazil, & Yugoslavia were also neutral, and what exactly was the Jewish League? The United States certainly did look after number one until attacked. How could Poland have done the same? Greece, of course, tried to until attacked by Italy and then Germany. As, of course, did Yugoslavia until invaded by Germany.
Australian troops were equipped entirely with British made weapons. Moreover, they did not need to beg. Australian troops, other than one division, were returned to Australia in early 1942. Oddly enough, in British liners and transports, escorted by British warships.
Perhaps history isn't your strong point. But there are books available.
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@urielstavras4968 Unlike Germany, Britain had not been actively planning for war for several years, and nor had the British been frenzedly re-arming. In 1940, after the collapse of France & Belgium, aside from one Canadian division and two Australian/New Zealand brigades, the defence of Britain from invasion was entirely in British hands.
On a more general note, if you now bleat about poor little Germany, you might consider whether invading, without declaration of war, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Denmark, Norway, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, and Belgium was really such a good idea?
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Actually, stood alone against a heavily militarised country which had successfully defeated Czechoslovakia, Poland, Denmark, Norway, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Belgium, and France. Germany was, by the way, actively supported by Italy, and supplied with raw materials by the USSR.
A shame that there don't appear to be any schools in South Africa any more, sonny.
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'When exactly did they stand alone again?' For, at least, the whole of 1940. To give an example or two, of 34.5 operational divisions in Britain in September, 1940, 32.5 were British. The only Commonwealth forces in Britain at the time were one Canadian division and two Australian & Canadian brigades.
The Royal Navy, other than seven Royal Canadian destroyers, was entirely British.
Of 2927 pilots in the Battle of Britain, 2353 were British. The others, both Commonwealth & Foreign, flew British aircraft, under British orders.
The United States did not commence their Lend-Lease Programme until March, 1941. Prior to that, any supplies Britain acquired from the US were bought & paid for.
THe Commonwealth and Empire played an increasingly large role in WW2, but not as early as 1940. In the (unlikely) event of an attempted invasion, distant voices in support of Britain from the Dominions and the Empire would have had no practical help in repelling it.
There are many books dealing with the events of 1940. You might buy one, perhaps?
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@dwight4626 Who protected the Convoy System? The Royal & Royal Canadian Navies. Who planned every assault landing in the war against Germany, except Dragoon of course? Yhe Royal Navy. Who provided the bulk of the forces for these operations, from Torch onwards? The British & Commonwealth armies.
As an example, D-Day. On June 6, two thirds of the troops who landed on the beaches were British & Canadian, 3261 of 4127 landing craft were British manned, 892 of 1213 warships were RN/RCN, two thirds of the allied aircraft were RAF. The mine clearance operations were almost entirely RN/RCN, the U-boats sent to attack shipping off Normandy were defeated and largely destroyed by British & Canadian Escort & Support Groups, and the operational commanders of the three forces, air, sea, & land, were all British.
In short, you shouldn't believe everything that you see in movies. Although your apparent belief that only the Americans fought the Japanese does rather reveal the depth of your actual knowledge, I suggest.
No, Britain could not have liberated Western Europe alone. Neither of course could the United States. However, this obvious fact has precisely no relevance to your comment, which, if you recall, was :-
'If it wasn't for the Yanks. we'd all be speaking German.'
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@r0bbrn140 But didn't you read the title of the video?:
'When Britain Stood Alone: The Complete Story Of The Battle Of Britain'
The Battle of Britain took place in 1940. Had anyone claimed that Britain stood alone in, for example, 1942, I would have been among the first to correct them. However, in terms of 1940, the title is correct.
Indeed, there were foreign or Commonwealth pilots in the Battle of Britain. 2927 pilots flew with Fighter Command during the batle, of which 2353 were British, and 299 were foreign, by which I mean non-Commonwealth or Empire.
In terms of ground forces, of 34.5 divisions available to Britain on home soil in September, 1940, all except two were British.
Not that this matters, of course, because Britain's real defence against invasion in 1940, was the Royal Navy, which, apart from a tiny number of French, Polish, & Canadian destroyers, was entirely British.
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@kayhass2510 Actual history. In September 1940 the British had 34.5 operational divisions in the UK. 32.5 of these were British.
At sea, Britain was defended from invasion by the Royal Navy, which apart from a small number of RCN destroyers, was wholly British.
In Fighter Command, of around 2,900 pilots, around 500 were non-British. Mainly from the Commonwealth.
Certainly, the United States played a major role in WW2, after being reluctantly forced into it by the Japanese & Germans, but in 1940 the US was neutral, although happy to sell munitions to Britain at market prices.
Since then, contrary to what you think, the British fought in the Korean War as part of a United Nations Force, defeated a communist insurgency (unaided) in Malaya, and wisely kept out of the US debacle in Vietnam.
If anything, since then it has been the US begging Britain to get involved in a series of unwise American adventures, generally failed ones, in the Middle East. Unfortunately, a series of British Prime Ministers have let Britain become a part of these American antics.
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'Fighting the nazis for 3 years, alone'. Hardly, until late June, 1941, The Soviets & the nazis were bosom chums. After their acrimonious divorce, the Soviets then received military aid fro Britain and, after December, 1941, from the United States.
The Western Allies then carried out a major air offensive which hamstrung German military production, and forced the Germans to retain large numbers of personnel, much of their modern artillery, and most of the Luftwaffe, in the west in a failed attempt to challenge western air power. This of course, is without mentioning the campaigns in North Africa & Italy.
They also devoted considerable resources to their U-boat campaign, building over 1100 boats, of which over 800 were destroyed, seven by the Soviets. In the midst of this the Western Allies were heavily engaged against the Japanese Empire, in the Pacific in the case of the US & in Burma in the case of the British.
To base your comments simply on the land fighting on the Eastern Front is, frankly, as asinine or blinkered than would a counter-suggestion, that the Soviets contributed nothing because their forces only sank seven U-boats would have been.
'Thank you Russia?' What for, defending herself?
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Unfair. Although the Commonwealth and Empire were later to play a major role in WW2, in 1940, just like Britain herself, they were not geared up for immediate action. There was a Canadian Division and two Australian/New Zealand Brigades in Britain at the time, but, although Britain was, in effect, alone, the British knew that support was coming.
Allied plans pre-blitzkreig had assumed a defensive strategy akin to that of WW1 until Britain organised conscription and troops from the Commonwealth/Empire began to arrive. The issue was that of survival until then.
Put simply, neither Britain nor the Commonwealth/Empire had vast numbers of military resources immediately available. Other than the Royal Navy, of course.
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@abugina The whole of the Commonwealth and Empire eventually stood by Britain, but, in 1940, from a distance. If you can explain how Commonwealth forces being built up in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, or anywhere else, and thus far away from Britain, could have made any contribution to the prevention of a German invasion of Britain in 1940, please try.
In September, 1940, of 34.5 divisions in Britain, 32.5 were made up of British troops.
Oh, and in the Atlantic, the Convoy System was introduced from September, 1939. Convoys were escorted, both in the Atlantic and everywhere else, by Royal Navy warships, until the huge expansion of the Royal Canadian Navy, from around May, 1941. Until this happened Dominion navies were tiny.
France, by the way, had a large overseas Empire. What happened to France?
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You need to 'chase down the details' yourself. If you did, you would find that, at the time of the Battle of Britain, there were, of just under 3,000 allied pilots who flew at least one operation during the Battle, 112 Canadians, and 32 Australians.
Of ground troops ready to face any invasion attempt, of 34.5 divisions in September, 1940, 32.5 were British. There was one Canadian Division, and two Australian & New Zealand Brigades.
Those are the plain, unalloyed, facts. However much you may dislike them.
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Perhaps you didn't know when the Battle of Britain took place? Try to understand this. In September, 1940, there were 34.5 divisions in the UK. Of these 32.5 were British. The only Commonwealth troops in the UK were one Canadian division and rwo Australian/New Zealand brigades. The nearest Indian division was in North Africa, and the Free French/Poles were not yet forned into (small) coherent fighting units as yet.
In the event of any German landing, however unlikely given the naval supremacy of the (British) Royal Navy, supported by a small number of Canadian destroyers, cries of 'Good luck, lads!' from distant Canada, Australian, South Africa, New Zealand, India or anywhere else would not have been of much help.
However important the Commonwealth & Empire became later in the war.
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Yet, apart from one Canadian division & two Australian/New Zealand brigades, there were no Commonwealth troops in Britain in 1940. In the event of an assault landing, however unlikely it might have been, it would be the British who, almost entirely would be the ones who resisted it.
Encouragement from far away, whilst good for morale, would not have helped much. There were 574 Commonwealth & Foreign pilots in the Battle of Britain, and 2353 British ones, by the way.
Moreover, you greatly exaggerate the importance of the Battle of Britain. After all, if the Germans had achieved a temporary measure of air superiority, all that they then needed to do was find a way past the largest navy in the world for their towed barges.
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Oh, dear, a victim of the indoctrination which has replaced education in many places.
Actually, the Bengal Famine had a number of causes, among which were the number of refugees from Japanese held areas, the inability to import food from those same areas, stockpiling by hoarders and, perhaps worst of all, the Bengal administration, which tried to minimise the crisis.
The worst that could be said of Churchill was that he should have known what was taking place, but didn't. After all, in 1943, he had little else to worry about.
You could also add the refusal of FDR to allow the transfer of merchant shipping, by the way. What is without dispute, except by those who choose to blame Churchill for everything since the Black Death, is that once he did find out, he transferred food distribution to the British Indian Army, and had grain convoys diverted from Australia to India.
I appreciate, of course, that you won't want to believe any of this, as it doesn't suit your agenda.
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Yet, apart from one Canadian division & two Australian/New Zealand brigades, there were no Commonwealth troops in Britain in 1940. In the event of an assault landing, however unlikely it might have been, it would be the British who, almost entirely would be the ones who resisted it.
Encouragement from far away, whilst good for morale, would not have helped much. There were 574 Commonwealth & Foreign pilots in the Battle of Britain, and 2353 British ones, by the way.
Moreover, you greatly exaggerate the importance of the Battle of Britain. After all, if the Germans had achieved a temporary measure of air superiority, all that they then needed to do was find a way past the largest navy in the world for their towed barges.
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@peterbreis5407 Where 'one eyed jingoism' is concerned, I confess that I am not in your league. Just to correct one or two of your basic errors, Australia actually declared war on Germany on 3 September, 1939. There was no war in the Far East until the end of 1941. What would you have suggested that the Australian armed forces should have done other than that?
Yes, Australia paid for British equipment and ships. Shouldn't Australia, just like New Zealand and Canada, have contributed to the maintenance of their own military?
Were you to actually look up the war records of such well-known Australian warships as Canberra, Australia, Hobart, Perth, Sydney, & Stuart, you would find, probably to your surprise, that all, after some served in the Mediterranean prior to Pearl Harbor, had been returned to Australian waters, actually before December, 1941.
Indeed, after Pearl Harbor, all but one Australian division was returned. The 9th, by the way, was returned after 2nd Alamein following an agreement between FDR & Churchill that a US division would be sent to Australia in the interim. As the ships transporting the other Australian forces back to Australia were overwhelmingly British, as were their escorts, Churchill, supported by Roosevelt by the way, believed that the unfolding crisis in Burma was of greater immediate concern. Actually, he was probably correct, as only those with limited knowledge of the distances and logistics involved could ever have viewed Australia as threatened by any Japanese invasion. Certainly, Tojo's testimony after the war had ended confirmed that Japan had never held such ambitions.
Correct, the Yugoslavian merchant fleet was returned to Yugoslavia at the end of the war, just as those of Norway, the Netherlands, Belgium, and Greece were also returned. Not to Tito personally, by the way. Josep Tito was, for good or ill, Prime Minister of Yugoslavia at the time. Again, what would you suggest should have happened to the fleet?
'Canada, New Zealand and South Africa' like Australia, made sacrifices in order to defeat Germany, Italy & Japan. In terms of military deaths as a % of national populations, however, somewhat less than the sacrifice that Britain made.
When Australia is deeply mired in a bizarre 'Voice' campaign, accusing others of being 'self obsessed' is, I assume, your attempt at humour, and how is Brexit possibly relevant to events which ended almost 80 years ago, and about which you seem to have little actual knowledge?
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Just as you fail to acknowledge that pilots from the Dominions, together with a small number of pilots from neutral countries and from conquered European states, flew in British aircraft, in British squadrons, and under a British command and control system.
The Commonwealth and Empire was to play an increasingly important role as the war progressed, but in 1940 the only Commonwealth troops in Britain were one Canadian division, together with two Australian & New Zealand brigades. In the improbable event of an attempted invasion, it would have been faced in September, 1940 by some of 34.5 operational divisions. 32.5 of those divisions were British.
Certainly shouts of good wishes from distant Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and India would have been much appreciated, but equally they would have been of little practical use against German forces landing, for example, between Rye & Hastings.
Clearly, the very idea of British resistance must upset you. You have even broken your caps lock!
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Actually, your knowledge is quite lacking. In 1940, the Commonwealth and Empire, though it later played a major role, was still far distant, although supportive. In September, 1940, of 34.5 operational divisions in Britain, all except 2 were British. Immediately after the French surrender, the only Commonwealth troops in Britain were one Canadian dicision and two Australian & New Zealand brigades.
There were a number of non-British pilots in Fighter Command. Other than those from Commonwealth countries, and a handful of volunteers from neutral countries, these men had joined precisely because their own countries had been occupied, and joining the British armed forces was the only way they could continue to resist their conquerors. They did, of course, fly in RAF squadrons, using British aircraft.
What 'American industrial might?' In 1940, the United States was happy to sell supplies and equipment to Britain, at the full market rate. These items were then shipped across the Atlantic in British ships, escorted overwhelmingly by Royal Navy warships.
I appreciate that the idea seems to distress you, but at the time of the Battle of Britain, Britain was, to all intents and purposes, alone.
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No. One Canadian division was in Britain, and, indeed, briefly in France until General Weygand told Alan Brooke that the French army was no longer capable of organised resistance, and the Reconstituted BEF was withdrawn.
By September, there were also two Australian & New Zealand Brigades in Britain. All but two of the 34.5 operational divisions at that time were British.
Of course there was a Commonwealth, and it played an increasingly significant role, but not as early as 1940, when, by & large, it provided staunch, but rather distant, support.
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@dwight4626 'Do you think we would have won without the Yanks ?' Actually, it depends what you mean by 'won.'
Moreover, we would certainly not have been invaded, and therefore we wouldn't now be speaking German. We had the largest navy on earth, and from June 1940 onwards the British were outbuilding the Germans in aircraft, and especially in fighter aircraft. This video is about 1940, by the way, when the US were selling supplies and equipment at market rates.
You probably don't know this, but FDR viewed Land-Lease, when it was finally pushed through in early 1941, as a means of buying time until the US had begun to re-arm. It was never altruistic in the slightest.
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@dwight4626 Do you think that the British & Commonwealth weren't? The largest single military defeat inflicted upon the Japanese army was the defeat of their Operation U-Go, with 30,500 Japanese killed and a further 23,000 hospitalised. The victors, by the way, were the Anglo-Indian XIV army.
The US navy, of course, was able to concentrate almost entirely in the Pacific because the Royal Navy fought, and won, the allied campaigns in the Arctic, the Atlantic, and the Mediterranean.
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@nickdanger3802 Still replying with odd irrelevancies, I observe.
However, you might wish to refer to V. E. Tarrant's's 'The U-Boat Offensive, 1918-1945' for a detailed analysis.
Coastal Command are credited with 196 sinkings, US Naval & Army Aircraft with 86, other allied navies with 17, other causes (mines, scuttling, accidents, internment, collisions, and unknown losses) 119, and bombing in ports or shipyards, also 84.
Oh, and US Navy 48.5. Royal & Royal Canadian Navy 257.5.
Total 808.
Do explain the relevance to the Battle of Britain?
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Bizarre how confused people like you can be. Churchill (and Herbert Kitchener) saw Gallipoli as a means of using sea power to avert the unfolding carnage on the Western Front. Had you actually read a book on the subject, rather than simply a 'Churchill was a bad man' manual, you would have found that Kitchener had been asked by the Russian General Staff if the Allies had some means of reducing Ottoman pressure on Russia's southern flank.
Thus, Gallipoli was suggested as a means of :- 1). Responding to the Russian appeal. 2). Encouraging neutral Eastern European states to join the alliance against Germany, Austria-Hungary, & Turkey. 3). Perhaps even knocking the Ottoman Empire out of the war.
Churchill put the idea to Herbert Asquith, who (not Churchill) actually authorised the Operation, after which Churchill, nor any other politician, had any part in the planning or execution of it. When the campaign failed, Asquith needed a scapegoat, which was Churchill'
Narvik was rather different. It was an Allied attempt to support Norway after the German invasion, intended to enable at least part of Norway to remain unoccupied, but perhaps more importantly, to prevent German freighters using Narvik as a means of transporting iron ore to Germany when the Swedish ports were iced up in winter. In fact, it might well have worked, at least in denying Narvik to the Germans, had not the expedition been withdrawn following the Blitzkreig on the Low Countries and France.
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The subject under discussion is the Battle of Britain, not the whole of WW2. Don't you understand that? I would have thought that there was something of a clue in the title.
Whilst the Commonwealth and Empire later played a significant role, as early as 1940 most of it was providing moral rather than actual physical support. In September 1940, of 34.5 divisions in Britain, 32.5 were British. Earlier, in June, the only Commonwealth forces in Britain were one Canadian division and two Australian/New Zealand brigades. Had the Germans attempted Sealion, after securing control of the air from Fighter Command, which consisted overwhelmingly of British pilots, then the ground troops facing the landings would have been almost entirely British.
Not to worry, though, because the British Royal Navy was more than capable of dealing with the ramshackle collection of barges which the Germans intended to use.
It seems you don't like the actual facts of 1940, so you have invented new ones.
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The subject under discussion is the Battle of Britain, not the whole of WW2. Don't you understand that? I would have thought that there was something of a clue in the title.
Whilst the Commonwealth and Empire later played a significant role, as early as 1940 most of it was providing moral rather than actual physical support. In September 1940, of 34.5 divisions in Britain, 32.5 were British. Earlier, in June, the only Commonwealth forces in Britain were one Canadian division and two Australian/New Zealand brigades. Had the Germans attempted Sealion, after securing control of the air from Fighter Command, which consisted overwhelmingly of British pilots, then the ground troops facing the landings would have been almost entirely British.
Not to worry, though, because the British Royal Navy was more than capable of dealing with the ramshackle collection of barges which the Germans intended to use.
It seems you don't like the actual facts of 1940, so you have invented new ones.
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@brianjones5379 '25 countries were helping in some way.' Hardly.There were a small number of individuals from other countries, and from the Commonwealth. They flew in British aircraft.under British command, and following a British air defence system. There was not one European country 'helping in some way' and whilst the Commonwealth and Empire did play a major role later, in 1940 it was still building up for that effort.
In September, 1940, of 34.5 divisions in Britain deemed operational, 32.5 were British. There were Commonwealth troops in Britain, but only one Canadian division, and two Australian/New Zealand Brigades. The only Indian troops were a single division in North Africa, with the Western Desert Force facing the Italians.
In the event of an attempted Sealion, good wishes from far away would not help to defeat it. However, the possibility of such an invasion was small, given the overwhelming strength of the Royal Navy in Home Waters.
That too, by the was almost entirely British, apart from a small number of Canadian and Free French destroyers.
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Please try to understand. Apart from a small number of aircrew, one Canadian division, two understrength Australian brigades, and around 5,000 New Zealanders, the defence of Britain in 1940 was left almost entirely to the British people,
The Royal Navy was entirely British, apart from a small number of Canadian destroyers, and in September, 1940, of 34.5 divisions in Britain, 32.5 were British.
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@anthonynicholich9654 If there was no Channel then the whole history of the British Isles, and Europe, would have been entirely different. Precisely because of the Channel, England/Britain evolved as a sea power, with a large navy and a tiny army, which in effect was little more than an Imperial police force or fire brigade, ferried around to trouble spots as and when they occurred, by that navy.
Had there been no Channel, England/Britain, would, perforce, have needed to create and maintain a large army, if only because of the perpetual threat from France. In other words, she would have been far more of a continental power, and far less of a naval power. Much like France, in fact.
I hope that is clear, although your immediate resort to insults rather suggests that it will not be?
'They did not establish air supremacy so what makes you think they would have without the channel being there?' Where did I write that? As your magical removal of the Channel is merely a fantasy, you should expect a rational response, even if you cannot cope with one.
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Hpw many Commonwealth troops were in Britain is September,1940, when an invasion might have been attempted? Actually, one Canadian Division and two Australian/New Zealand Brigades. Of 36.5 Divisions in Britain at the time, 34.5 were British. You could look this up if you wanted.
'Countless thousands of Europeans?' Really? French troops lifted out of Dunkirk had mostly returned, and those Polish troops who arrived did so without equipment, and were re-armed by the British.
The Commonwealth did indeed play a significant role in the war effort, but in 1940, when this video is set, apart from the troops I have already mentioned,and a small number of aircrew, that role was largely vocal support from a distance, as they developed their war effort.
In short, would cries of 'Good luck, Britain, our thoughts are with you' from Ottawa, Canberra, and Auckland, have been of little use against several German Divisions landing on the South Coast of England. Not, of course, that the (British) Royal Navy would have allowed that to happen.
The fact that, to all intents and purposes, the British did stand alone seems to upset you. I wonder why?
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People who undulge in festooning their comments with capital letters usually do so to conceal the paucity of their argument, as of course you have done.
Please try to break your indoctrination, and think, instead. You might even try to read a book or two?
The video is about the Battle of Britain, and the possible threat of German invasion. At the time, the only ground forces from the Commonwealth and Empire were one Canadian Division and two Australian/New Zealand Brigades. In September, of 34.5 divisions in Britain, 32.5 were British.
The Commonwealth and Empire eventually played an important role in the war effort, but not as early as October 1940.
Indian troops did serve in North Africa and Italy, but the bulk of Indian forces served in Burma. By the way, there was no conscription in India, yet 2.5 million Indians served in the allied forces. Your ill-informed comment dishonours the memory of those men.
You should take the issue up with those who indoctrinated you, perhaps?
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Thank you for posting the link. It shows how indoctrinated the teaching of many schools has become in pursuit of biased political beliefs.
Just to educate you about the WW2 Bengal Famine, during WW2 around 2.5 million Indians joined the allied cause. Do you really believe that the 'white supremacist drukard pyschopath Churchill' would have allowed the famine and risked mass insurrection in India in 1943? Ask your teacher to answer that.
Actually, the Bengal Famine had a number of causes, among which were the number of refugees from Japanese held areas, the inability to import food from those same areas, stockpiling by hoarders and, perhaps worst of all, the Bengal administration, which tried to minimise the crisis. The worst that could be said of Churchill was that he should have known what was taking place, but didn't. After all, in 1943, he had little else to worry about.
You could also add the refusal of FDR to allow the transfer of merchant shipping, by the way. What is without dispute, except by those who choose to blame Churchill for everything since the Black Death, is that once he did find out, he transferred food distribution to the British Indian Army, and had grain convoys diverted from Australia to India.
I appreciate, of course, that you won't want to believe any of this, as it doesn't suit the agenda, and clearly the indoctrination is strong in you.
In reality, colonialism in the British was almost entirely driven by trade, rather than any ambition to conquer. In 1801, the Population of Britain and Ireland was 10.5 million, and that of India was 159 million. Britain was also in the middle of a major war with the greatest military power in Europe. Do you, or the fool who wrote the nonsense you recommended, really wish to maintain the fantasy that Britain embarked, or was remotely capable of embarking, on the kind of imperial conquests that are suggested?
Cetainly, there was a belief in cultural superiority at the time. Perhaps not surprising when western explorers found in the New World, and in much of Africa societies at a neolithic level of development, and, in Australia and New Zealand a mesolithic, hunter-gatherer level of society. Such a view was not restricted to Europeans. Gandhi, when a young lawyer in South Africa, believed that Africans were an inferior form of Humanity, and should not be accorded voting rights.
Oh, and the bombing of German cities. Put simply, in words you might possibly understand, please explain why it is perfectly acceptable to kill the man who fires a shell which kills one of your soldiers, but somehow unacceptable to kill the 'civilian' who makes the shell in the first place?
In short. There are no civilians in an industrial war. Do try to understand.
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No, it seems you have missed the point.
One Canadian division was in Britain, and, indeed, briefly in France until General Weygand told Alan Brooke that the French army was no longer capable of organised resistance, and the Reconstituted BEF was withdrawn.
By September, there were also two Australian & New Zealand Brigades in Britain. All but two of the 34.5 operational divisions at that time were British.
Of course there was a Commonwealth, and it played an increasingly significant role, but not as early as 1940, when, by & large, it provided staunch, but rather distant, support.
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@anishachowhan9630 'Indians fought with distinction throughout the world, including in the European theatre against Germany.'
Thank you for your wikipedia cut and paste. Of course Indian troops fought with distinction in North Africa, Italy, & Burma later in the war.
But not at the time of the Battle of Britain, which this video is about.
Oh, and the Bengal Famine. Just to correct the last sentence by means of actual facts, as opposed to indoctrinator myths & falsehoods. :-
Actually, the Bengal Famine had a number of causes, among which were the number of refugees from Japanese held areas, the inability to import food from those same areas, stockpiling by hoarders and, perhaps worst of all, the Bengal administration, which tried to minimise the crisis. The worst that could be said of Churchill was that he should have known what was taking place, but didn't. After all, in 1943, he had little else to worry about.
You could also add the refusal of FDR to allow the transfer of merchant shipping, by the way. What is without dispute, except by those who choose to blame Churchill for everything since the Black Death, is that once he did find out, he transferred food distribution to the British Indian Army, and had grain convoys diverted from Australia to India.
I appreciate, of course, that indoctrinators won't believe any of this, as it doesn't suit their agenda, but the documents and archives from the period rather contradict their allegations.
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@nickdanger3802 K6, the mule handlers who operated in France, were part of the Royal Indian Army Service Corps. Professional soldiers, in other words. The Quit India movement began in August, 1942. The two events were entirely unrelated. The movement lasted for less than two months. The movement was opposed by the Viceroy's Council, the All India Muslim League, the Hindu Mahasabha, the princely states, the Indian Imperial Police, the British Indian Army, the Indian Civil Service, and many leading Indian businessmen.
2.5 million Indians fought on the Allied side in WW2, none of whom were conscripted.
At the time of the Battle of Britain, which it seems constantly necessary to remind people this video was about, Gandhi had stated his support for the fight against racism and for the British war effort, stating he did not seek to raise an independent India from the ashes of Britain.
Yey again, the issue of relevance arises.
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Why do you people get so upset about the idea? The video is about the Battle of Britain period. At the time, the Commonwealth & Empire were indeed supportive, but largely at a distance. The Commonwealth had provided aircrew, but the only Commonwealth troops in Britain available to help combat a potential German invasion were one Canadian division, and two Australian/New Zealand brigades.
In fact, in September, 1940, of 34.5 divisions in Britain, 32.5 were British. Perhaps you struggle to grasp the obvious, but in the event of a successful German landing on the south coast, enthusiastic vocal support from Toronto, Cape Town, Delhi, Auckland, or Sydney would have been of little practical help.
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Oh dear, another indoctrinated one! Aside from the fact that this video was about 1940 (there were no Indian troops in Britain in 1940, and only two brigades in North Africa), how exactly did 'British Colonialism' take 250 million Indian lives when the population of India in 1801 was 169 million, rising to 340 million in 1947? At the height of the Raj, there were 30,000 British Civil Servants, administrating India through the Indian Princely States, and the rapid rise in population suggests that someone was doing something right.
Oh, and the Berngal Famine. Actually, the Bengal Famine had a number of causes, among which were the number of refugees from Japanese held areas, the inability to import food from those same areas, stockpiling by hoarders and, perhaps worst of all, the Bengal administration, which tried to minimise the crisis. The worst that could be said of Churchill was that he should have known what was taking place, but didn't. After all, in 1943, he had little else to worry about.
You could also add the refusal of FDR to allow the transfer of merchant shipping, by the way. What is without dispute, except by those who choose to blame Churchill for everything since the Black Death, is that once he did find out, he transferred food distribution to the British Indian Army, and had grain convoys diverted from Australia to India.
I appreciate, of course, that you won't believe any of this, as it doesn't suit the agenda with which you have been indoctrinated.
Don't you realise that you are making yourself look remarkably foolish?
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On land the Germans would certainly have defeated the British, just as at sea the British would have defeated the Germans. In the air, the British had been outbuilding the Germans since June, 1940, and, unlike the Germans, were building a strategic bomber force, a resource which the Germans never thought of.
Oh, and at Dunkirk, after around 100 French & Belgian divisions had collapsed or capitulated, around 210,000 British & 110 French troops were withdrawn by the Royal & Merchant Navies. Not, as you seem, rather oddly, to think, in rowing boats.
The reality of 1940 was that the two adversaries were unable to defeat each other, even when your gallant Soviets sat on the sidelines, supplying Germany with raw materials and with oil.
A year later, your Soviet heroes were to learn how that cynical deal would end.
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@ClannCholmain Perhaps you weren't aware, but after Italy declared war in June 1940, the Mediterranean was effectively closed to Allied merchant shipping, and convoys went round the Cape.
Not that this matters, however, as, apart from a tiny number, less than 8,000, there were no Australian, New Zealand, South African, or Indian troops in Britain in WW2. The Australians were in North Africa, Malaya, and then the Far East, the New Zealanders and South Africans in North Africa, & Italy, and the Indians in North Africa, Italy, and Burma/Malaya.
The Canadians, of course, played a major role in the European campaign, and were the only substantial Commonwealth force in Britain in 1940.
Ever thought of reading a book or two?
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@ClannCholmain Perhaps you haven't bothered to read the title of the Thread? It relates to the Battle of Britain. Or rather, German attempt to gain control of the air over the Channel & South Eastern England in order to establish conditions which might make a seaborne invasion possible. They were wrong of course, but not because of the size of the British Empire, but because of the overwhelming strength of ther Royal Navy in home waters. By the way, where did you get the number 164 for destroyers from? The correct number is 193.
Indeed, the Royal Navy was the largest in the world in 1939-40. I didn't actually mention the Italian navy, as that wasn't what concerned the British in 1940. They simply concluded, sensibly, that to send troopships or merchantmen through a Mediterranean which at the time was dominated by the Italian Air Force was not wise. Hence, troop and supply convoys from Britain went round the Cape, rather than through the Med., and troop or supply convoys from India and the Far East docked at the southern end of this Canal.
Here is an easy question for you. Please tell me, from your evident encyclopaedic knowledge, the convoy number of any Brirtish convoy which passed through the Suez Canal during WW2? Should be a simple task for someone of your intellect.
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@ClannCholmain So, it appears you now admit that I didn't refer to the Italian Navy after all. I will take your apology as read. In point of fact, I wasn't thinking of the Italian Navy, as Cunningham's fleet in 1940 was quite capable of escorting convoys through the Med. in the face of it. My concern, which was also that of the British at the time, was the Regia Aeronautica, at a time when the British had few aircraft resources in the theatre. That was why convoys went round the Cape.
I observe that you haven't supplied the convoy details. Of course you can't, as there weren't any, but you have chosen instead to ramble on about brexit to cover your obvious ignorance. You do not have any idea what my views might or might not be on that particular subject, and nor is it relevant to the question at issue.
I am not seeking to do myself any favours. I have simply presented you with a series of indisputed facts, which you have neither the knowledge nor the intelligence to challenge.
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@ClannCholmain Actually, in WW2, France suffered 217,000 military deaths, from a population of 42,000,000. Or 5.1%. I haven't, by the way, included the 38,000 French troops killed whilst serving in the German army.
If you seriously think that 3.25 million French military personnel were killed or wounded in WW2, then you are really not in a position to accuse anyone else of 'making stuff up'.
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Perhaps Germany should not have invaded, without declaration of war, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Denmark, Norway, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Belgium & the Soviet Union, then?
Having tanks drive over your property, bombers bombing your towns, and soldiers shooting your people, might tend to annoy the mildest of countries.
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@LosPeregrinos51 'Can you explain their contribution to the Battle of Britain please?' They had nothing at all to do with the Battle of Britain, of course. But they would have had everything to do with the defence of Britain had German forces been able to land. That, mon vieux, is their relevace to the price of eggs.
Moreover, of 2937 aircrew listed with taking part in the Battle of Britain, 302 were from the Commonwealth, and 293 from other countries. 595 of 2937 is not actually a quarter.
'Was that Britain "standing alone"?' Actually, yes it was, as these men were supplied with British aircraft, and flew under British command. Moreover, why do you place such emphasis on the Battle of Britain in any case? Don't you really know what actually mad invasion impossible? The total naval sopremacy held by the Royal Navy throught the period, of course.
Perhaps you might explain why the opinions of your American friend of the merits or otherwise of British commanders are even vaguely relevant? You do know, I assume, that the Steve McQueen character in 'The Great Escape' was entirely fictional, and was added to help market the movie in the United States? You didn't? Oh well, never mind.
Simply posting insults rather than responding to my facts hardly supportd your case.
As my old Professor, M. R. D. Foot, was wont to say, 'When people resort to insults, it is generally because they lack any arguments.' You might bear that in mind?
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Actually, the Bengal Famine had a number of causes, among which were the number of refugees from Japanese held areas, the inability to import food from those same areas, stockpiling by hoarders and, perhaps worst of all, the Bengal administration, which tried to minimise the crisis. The worst that could be said of Churchill was that he should have known what was taking place, but didn't. After all, in 1943, he had little else to worry about.
You could also add the refusal of FDR to allow the transfer of merchant shipping, by the way. What is without dispute, except by those who choose to blame Churchill for everything since the Black Death, is that once he did find out, he transferred food distribution to the British Indian Army, and had grain convoys diverted from Australia to India.
I appreciate, of course, that you won't believe any of this, as it doesn't suit your agenda.
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@Followme556 The 50 destroyers, for which Britain paid, only became operational, with British or Canadian crews, well after the Battle of Britain had ended. Britain had to carry out extensive refits on them. Any other items, including aircraft, were also paid for, and had British crews.
There were 2927 pilots accredited as flying with Fighter Command in the Battle of Britain. Of these, 574 were not British. If you can name any nation fighting alongside Britain in 1940, other than Commonwealth ones building up their forces but still at a distance, please try.
To argue that Britain was not alone is as false as claiming that Britain & America supported the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War because of the International Brigade.
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