Comments by "doveton sturdee" (@dovetonsturdee7033) on "Why the dreadnoughts barely fought in WW1" video.

  1. In WW1? Please don't be silly. Read about the German Spring Offensive of 1918, and what happened to it.
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  2. Except that the control of the North Sea which the Grand Fleet held throughout the war ensured that the High Seas Fleet remained virtually inactive after Jutland. The British Northern Patrol was able to maintain the blockade which successfully reduced Germany to the edge of mass starvation, ending in revolution, mutiny, and defeat.
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  3.  @raypurchase801  Define 'superdreadnought' and define 'state of the art warships.'
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  4.  @DZ-1987  No. Apart from Jutland, the High Seas Fleet spent the whole of WW1 avoiding action with the Grand Fleet. Apart from two aborted sorties later in1916, and a raid against the Russian Navy in the Baltic in October, 1917, the HSF spent almost the entire rest of the war snugly at anchor in the Jade, whilst the British Northern Patrol, of Armed Merchant Cruisers and trawlers, systematically blockaded Germany into starvation and revolution. You may read about the Turnip winter for yourself. To be plain, there was no reason for the Grand Fleet to operate in the North Sea, as the HSF was rarely, if ever, there. Early in the war, raids were, indeed, made by German battlecruisers against East Coast towns, on a hit and run basis. The hope was that the RN would send a number of ships to the East Coast, as the German hope had always been to catch and destroy a detached portion (a Battle Squadron, perhaps ) of the Grand Fleet in order to reduce the numbers against them. Fortunately, Jellicoe and the Admiralty were not foolish enough to fall for this.
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  5. Not correct. You should look beyond the war in the Pacific.
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  6.  @Ralphieboy  Actually, preventing the French fleet from returning to mainland French ports and, potentially, being ordered by Vichy to support an attempted German invasion. Maintaining British naval control of the Mediterranean, and engaging the Italian fleet on the rare occasions when it did appear. This wasn't often and, to quote the old song, 'If they won't fight us, what can we do more?' Screening Arctic Convoys against a possible sortie by Tirpitz or Scharnhorst, before ensuring that one Sharnhorst emerged, she did not return. Finally, using older battleships of the 'R' class to protect Atlantic convoys from possible attacks by German raiders. Particularly during Operation Berlin.
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  7.  @jonathanwilliams1065  Yes, it was a massacre, but it wasn't a betrayal. The British alliance with France had ended when Reynaud's administration collapsed, and a collaborationist government had succeeded it. The Armistice of 22 June required that the French Navy be returned to ports in Mainland France. As the German Navy had taken heavy losses during the Norwegian campaign, the main obstacle to an invasion attempt on Britain was Germany's lack of a navy. The British Government feared that the French navy might be allocated to provide support. Gensoul, the commander at Mers, was given a number of alternatives to pass on to his government, but refused so to do. In the situation of the time, the British government concluded that the action by Force H was a regrettable necessity.
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  8. When Hipper did try to send the High Seas Fleet out in October, 1918, the crews mutinied.
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  9.  @ErichZornerzfun  Twice later in 1916, before returning to port immediately upon receiving reports of the approaching Grand Fleet, and once in 1917 into the Baltic. That does not equate to 'numerous times.'
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  10.  @andrewhayes7055  You would be wrong. Battlercruisers tended to be bigger because of the need for much greater boiler/engine power. Dreadnought had an 11 inch belt and 3 inch deck. Lion had a 9 inch belt and 2.5 inch deck. Lion was, of course, better armed.
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  11. She was no longer regarded as fit for service with the Grand Fleet. She was refitting at Portsmouth at the time of Jutland, and then, from July, 1916, became flagsahip of the 3rd Battle Squadron, based at Sheerness. The rest of the squadron were pre-dreadnoughts. She did return to the Grand Fleet briefly from March, 1918.
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  12. Nonsense.
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  13. Like the Fairey Swordfish, perhaps? Think again.
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  14.  @raypurchase801  Bought it and read it more than 20 years ago, but thank you for the suggestion.
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  15. Perhaps you haven't heard of 'Unrestricted Submarine Warfare?'
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  16.  @jonathanwilliams1065  Last sentence of Article VIII. - 'All warships outside France are to be recalled to France with the exception of that portion of the French War Fleet which shall be designated to represent French interests in the colonial empire.' Germany & Italy, of course, would decide which ships might be used to "represent French interests in the colonial empire.'' I haven't made this up. Moreover, assuming that the British government knew of this clause, what were they expected to conclude from it?
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  17.  @jonathanwilliams1065  Very imaginative, but both Germany & France regarded Algeria as being part of the French Empire. If you seek for evidence that the Germans in particular would have agreed to this, I fear you will search in vain.
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  18.  @jonathanwilliams1065  But the new French Government was to be headed by two enthusiastic collaborationalists, Petain & Laval. I doubt that Darlan, with his concern about the honneur of the French navy, would have agreed to the surrender of the French fleet to Germany or Italy, but he was not irreplacable. Moreover, the British concern was not that it be surrendered to the Germans, as they had no immediate means of manning it, but that French ships, with French crews, would appear in the Channel under orders from the Petain/Laval government to operate in support of a German invasion attempt on Britain. Put simply, it was not a risk the British government were willing to take. Interestingly, when FDR heard of Mers, he remarked that, had Britain been in the same position as France, he hoped that he would have taken similar action against the Royal Navy. The scuttling of French ships at Toulon in late November 1942 is hardly relevant. By then, the war situation had changed beyond recognition, and the eventual defeat of Germany by the US, Britain, and the Soviet Union was becoming apparent. That certainly was not the case in July, 1940.
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  19.  @jonathanwilliams1065  So, you answer to my comments is 'what a load of crap?' Clearly you are an intellectual! When did I suggest that the French squadron in Mers was going to attempt to steam past Gibraltar? The main British concern was the French cruisers and destroyers in French Atlantic ports, which could have supported a German invasion, but the attack on Mers. was to ensure that the French forces there would not be used in support of the Italian navy in the Mediterranean. Petain had fought against Germany in WW1, over twenty years earlier, but his right-of-centre political views made him more supportive of the nazi regime than of the growing level of left-wing influence in France. I do not think many French historians would disagree. Who said that 'French sailors were going to invade Britain?' The British concern was that the French fleet would be used to support a German invasion of Britain, given the fact that Germany had no credible navy of her own. Perhaps English is your second language?
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  20.  @ErichZornerzfun  No, there weren't. On 18 August, 1916, a force of 2 battlecruisers (all that were operational after the damage the others had received) and 17 battleships sailed. At 2119 the British intercepted a signal that the fleet had sailed at 2100, and at 2256 the Grand Fleet sortied. At 0500 on 19 August, the British submarine E23 torpedoed SMS Westfalen, which returned to port. At 1233 the Admiralty informed Jellicoe that the HSF was about 60 miles away, and Jellicoe prepared for action. However, Scheer had received warnings from both U boats and Zeppelins of the approach of Jellicoe's fleet, which he believed to be around 110 miles north west of his position. Upon receiving an updated report from U53 that the Grand Fleet was 65 miles away, and heading towards the HSF, Scheer abandoned his sortice and returned to the Jade. What did the Germans achieve by this mission, as you claim? The sinking of two light cruisers? Is that it? On 18 October, 1916, the HSF sailed, but within a few hours the cruiser Munchen was torpedoed by HMS E38, and Scheer returned to the safety of the Jade. The Grand Fleet was brought to short notice, but didn't sail as the German sortie ended almost before it had begun. What did this German mission achieve? If there were more sorties than these two damp squibs, tell me when. In general terms, what did the HSF achieve post-Jutland? Did it challenge the Northern Blockade, which was starving Germany into collapse? I refer you to the Turnip Winter. No, it didn't. Did it challenge the constant movement of men and equipment between Britain & France? No, it didn't. Did it try to send a fast raiding force into the Atlantic, using battlecruisers and light cruisers, perhaps? No, it didn't. Did it even seek to bring Trywhitt's Harwich Force of light cruisers and destroyers to battle? No. it didn't. What it did do was to swing peacefully on anchor chains and cables in the Jade, whilst crewmen heard of the suffering of their families. No wonder they mutinied, was it? No wonder, also, that Hindenburg & Ludendorff fell for Scheer's and von Holtzendorff's assurances that unrestricted submarine warfare could bring Britain to her knees, forcing Kaiser Bill to accept that his cherished surface fleet was a broken reed, and there was no alternative. Of course, the minor by-product of this desperate decision was to bring the United States into the war on the allied side. Was that the mission that the post Jutland German fleet actually accomplished?
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  21. Actrually, construction was dictated by the limitations of the Washington Naval Treaties. On 3 September, 1939, the RN had seven carriers, with six under construction, and fifteen battleships and battlecruisers, with five under construction. The US Navy had six carriers, with one under construction, and fifteen battleships, with four under construction. At the same time, Germany had 57 U-Boats. The Royal Navy had 63. U-Boat construction was a desperate wartime measure, brought about by the demands of a situation for which the Kriegsmarine had not planned.
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  22. Not in the west, they weren't. Naval warfare in WW2 involved far more than simply carriers in the Pacific.
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