Comments by "doveton sturdee" (@dovetonsturdee7033) on "The 80th anniversary of D Day; why the French hate Britain so much for what we did during the war" video.

@Paratus7 'They had three options; sail to Canada to sit out the war, scuttle their fleet or join the Allies.' The third option was to take the ships from Oran to the French West Indies, where they would be placed under neutral US supervision. The probability is that Admiral Darlan would have accepted this, but he never had the chance because Admiral Gensoul at Oran, for reasons he never explained, chose not to inform Darlan of this option.
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@yolandabrinkman2653 The British representative was the captain of HMS Ark Royal, Captain Holland. Somerville sent him because he spoke fluent French, having been at the British Embassy in Paris, and he was known to be a Francophile, who knew several of the senior Admirals in the French Navy, though not Admiral Gensoul. Obviously, Somerville needed to remain aboard his flagship in order to maintain contact with the Admiralty, but Gensoul does seem to have been peeved that an officer of a rank equal to his had not been sent to negotiate with him. As a result, he failed to send the full details of the British ultimatum to his own government.
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You might read about Verdun in WW1 before being so dismissive?
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@THX-ic8yw He did get the Dresden death toll wildly wrong. Post-war German research totally discredited his claims.
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@rodsquad5764 So Admiral Gensoul was more concerned about his prestige and self-importance than he was about bringing about a catastrophe for his fleet?
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@rodsquad5764 You miss the point entirely. How Gensoul should have reacted to the British ultimatum was a political, not a military, decision. Moreover, there was no suggestion of 'surrendering' to a neutral power, but of transferring the fleet to French colonial ports in the West Indies. The fact is that, for reasons which Gensoul never explained, he chose not to provide his own government with the full text of the British document. He thus chose to act totally beyond his authority. The probability is that Admiral Darlan, with his keen concern for the honneur of the Navy, might well have agreed with the West Indian port option. The decision, put simply, was not Gensoul's to make.
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@rodsquad5764 The actions Gensoul took had nothing to do with 'running a ship. Try to understand, I urge you. Are you even reading my posts? Whether Gensoul's squadron should scuttle, fight, join the British, or re-locate to the West Indies, was entirely a judgement for his political masters, and in particular Admiral Darlan, now, and since 16 June, the Minister of Marine in the incoming Petain government. Gensoul was a career naval officer, not a politician. 'You Saber rattle all you want but you would have made the same decision if you say not your just lying to yourself.' When have I 'sabre rattled,' out of interest? Had I been a career officer in such a position, and knowing that I had a deadline some several hours away, I would have done what any sensible commander would have done, and referred the situation up the chain of command, to the French Admiralty and, through them, to my government. I would most certainly not have chosen to sacrifice my fleet, and the lives of many of my men, on the altar of my personal dignity.
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@Jugement Perhaps you might point me to my post where I suggested that the French should have surrendered their navy, as I don't recall saying anything of the sort? The French had a credible alternative, which was that of sending Gensoul's ships to French West Indian ports, where they would be supervised by the neutral United States. Wouldn't that have been preferable to placing them under German 'supervision' as the Armistice/Surrender of 22 June demanded? Unfortunately, Gensoul's refusal to tell his own government the details of the British ultimatum never gave Darlan the chance even to consider it. By the way, France & Britain had not been in conflict since 1815. They had fought as allies in the Crimea, and in WW1. Perhaps you missed those two skirmishes? Indeed, any emnity had largely become irrelevant since the Franco-Prussian war, and the unification of Germany. Miss that as well, did you? Or the Entente Cordiale of 1904? 'The French Navy also did hold their end of the bargain and scuttled much more at Toulon than what was destroyed in Mers El Kebir when the Germans tried to cease in 1941.' It just shows how ignorant of history I must be. I always thought that the Toulon scuttling was on 27 November, 1942. How remiss of me. Moreover, if you think that the war situation had not changed somewhat between July 1940, and November, 1942, then I respectfully submit that it is not my knowledge of history that is lacking.
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Equally, we fought a Hundred Years' War against them!
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@rickeypayne1 I really enjoy reading reasoned comments from academics and intellectuals. Sadly, yours is neither.
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@PaIaeoCIive1684 Out of interest, what did Trevor-Roper get wrong?
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@DavidSmith-fs5qj 'Have you read his books? Hitlers War alone is over a thousand pages long, it took him ten years research to write, so have you read i?' Actually, I have read a number of his works. I have also read many issues of 'Volkischer Beobachter' and it is remarkable how similar the political philisophy is which underlies both.
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@Thenogomogo-zo3un 'Admiral Somerville said he "Felt like a bloody murderer" ' At the time, the British feared that the incoming collaborationalist government might have committed the French navy in support of a German invasion attempt. Furthermore, Admiral Gensoul never actually sent his government the full text of the British ultimatum, and specifically that the fleet at Mers el Kebir could re-locate to the French West Indies, where it might be placed under (neutral) US supervision.
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