Comments by "Patrick Mcelligott" (@patrickmcelligott5646) on "Celtic History Decoded"
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And, remember the Normans were Viking descendants. Norman means Norseman. Hrolf (Rollo) the Ganger led the Vikings who established it. They conquered Anglo Saxon England and much of Ireland as well. They also captured Sicily, where the population was mixed between Arabs, Italians, Africans, and various races from east of there. They also conquered Apulia. Before them, Viking fleets had invaded Spain, and Luni, in NW Italy, which they mistook for Rome. So they were wandering around the Mediterranean. The Russ founded Ukraine and traveled the Russian rivers. They attempted to invade Constantinople, but failed. The Byzantine emperors hired many Norse, including Russ (where Russia got its name), Norwegians, Danes, and also the Housecarles of Harold Godwinson, who left England after the defeat at the Battle of Hastings, by William of Normandy..Norse warriors composed the Varangian guard, the Byzantine Emperor’s personal guard, and even the Norwegian king, Harald Hardrada, who invaded England days before William of Normandy, and who and most if his army were defeated and killed by Harold Godwinson’s army at the Battle of Stamford Bridge. Out of 200 ships full of men, possibly 80 men to a ship, more likely varied, as many Viking Jarls had their own ships, only 20 ships sufficed to return the survivors home. And, they settled parts of Greenland (the climate went through a warming period between the 800’s, and it fell off in the 1300’s), as well as settling in Les Anse Aux Meadows in Newfoundland, and must have gotten as far south as the St Lawrence or Hudson rivers, as they found grape seeds from North America, when archeologists excavated Gudrid the Far Traveler’s home in Iceland. Gudrid very well have been the first Caucasian woman to give birth in the New World. The Vikings got around, and visited many parts of our world
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@deadcatbounce3124 and you are correct on that. Ireland was dominated by the Norse for some time. The cities were Norse. They would pull their longships up in a desirable spot, build stockade, set up a longphort. The Dubh Gall (dark or dark haired or evil foreigners) founded Dublin
(Dubh Linn dark pool) set up markets, including slave markets, and built a mead hall. These may have been Danes. The Finn Gall (light or fair haired foreigners) came in, set the mead hall on fire, and chased the Dubh Gall off. The Norse in Ireland were part of the Great Heathen Army that invaded England. They dominated Ireland for some time, but their dominance was broken at the Battle of Clontarf, where Brian Boru crushed an Irish-Norse alliance. Ironically, Brian was killed after the battle, when a Norseman wandering around after the battle entered into his tent.
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@rwm4738 So, it is quite possible that there could have been black Vikings. If there were, it is also probable that there weren’t many, but whether there were or not, until we find conclusive proof one way or another, and that would be a massive amount of DNA research. And remember, the Vikings were also in Constantinople, now Istanbul, then a huge empire, also with a huge slave trade. The vikings didn’t have horned helmets, they had slaves from many races and cultures, and they traveled vast distances. So, maybe yes, maybe no. Unless, of course, you have a time machine and we can go back and check
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@libbysevicke-jones3160 libby, where is your farm? I have many friends from the wine business in New Zealand, and the owner of the winery i work for in US, went there and made wine from 2007 until after 2019, when he could not enter because of covid regulations. Made sauvignon blanc in Marlborough from Auntiedale Vineyards, also pinot noir from McGinlay Vineyards, then moved to pinot noir from Pisa Terrace Vineyards in Central Otago. I am a big admirer of New Zealand wine, and have had Pegasus Bay and Babich’s The Patriarch, and, of course, sauvignon blanc from many locations.
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@rwm4738 you don’t know, but seems like you are triggered by the idea. Could have been, because slaves were traded from all over. Not that there would likely have been a lot of black vikings. History has more twists and turns than many can recognize. What Viking history have yoi read? Heimskringla, Landnamabok, sagas: Laxdaela, Saga of Burnt Njal, Grim’s Saga, Helgi’s Saga, Orkneyinga Saga, Faereyinga Saga, Saga of Grettir the Strong, Hrolf Kraki’s Saga, Vinland Sagas, Harald Hardrada’s Saga, Egil Skallagrimson Saga, Ibn Fadlan and the Land of Darkness (the story of an Arab merchant who traveled with the Vikings (Russ) up rivers in Russia and Ukraine in search of trade. This book was combined with Beowulf’s story in Michael Crichton’s book Eaters of the Dead, and the 13th Warrior film was based on that book). Have you read any of those, they are fascinating looks at the Viking age, many written down by Snorri Sturluson, the Icelander, around 1200. He also authored the Elder Edda and the Prose Edda, which give us Norse Mythology, and the poetic conventions in use at the time. Lastly,
Ragnar Lodbrok’s Saga., which the History channel based the Vikings series on. It shows them as constantly dirty, but Anglo-Saxon graffiti was found in the old harbor in Jorvik (York) complaining “I hate those Viking guys, they get all the girls because they bathe and wash their clothes (paraphrased). They grew up with hot springs. Anyway, if you haven’t read any, they are fascinating. Just watch out for the footnotes, they often refer to the family trees of characters, can be quite a rabbit hole. Great names, too. Olaf the Peacock, Grettir the Strong, Harald Bluetooth (the symbol for our bluetooth connections is a combination of the runes for his name), Eirik Bloodaxe, Ivar the Boneless, Sigurd Snake in the Eye, and so many more.
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@giftsvampen then you are making assumptions that are unproven, it was a possibility, i do not know for certain that there were, either. But it was possible, mercenaries were hired from far and by kings and jarls, in addition to the warriors who followed them as their duty, hersir. So no proof either way. Their was a man, who was a man, who owned many slaves, named Geirmund Heljarskinn, the son of a Norwegian man, and a Samoyed woman, said to be very dark skinned with more Asian features, just like as the person replied about the Suomi descendants, that there are records of. Heljarskinn means “Hell Skinned” and he is often referred to as very dark skinned. However, Hel was the goddess of where people went that did not go to Valhalla, and she was half black and half white, and it could be a reference to that as well. As for the sagas being unreliable, they are more reliable than you think. The Icelanders can still point out the locations of the farms and steads that belonged to those in the sagas. There is a book about Gudrid the Far Traveller, who lived in Iceland, Greenland, and very possibly had the first white baby in the new world at l’Anse Aux Meadows in Newfoundland. The archeologists prided themselves on locating her farmstead, but had to wait to excavate until the farmer who owned the land harvested his hay. They knew it was her house, because the floor plan was not Icelandic, but the same as the Newfoundland dwellings. I was telling someone i know about this, and it turned out that she was an Icelander, which i had not known. She scoffed and said, “Oh, we all knew where Gudrid’s farm was.” The Icelanders know their history and will proudly point it out. The Landnamabok is The Book of Settlements and lists much about the early Norse settlers of Iceland. Anyway, until we find some proof one way or the other, either contention is possible, there may not have been any black vikings or there may have been, but it is safe to say, that if there were, there would not have been many at all.
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@CymruCelt01 you cannot know that directly, warriors from all over would have joined them while they were in foreign lands. They were in Constantinople, they invaded Spain, where there would have been black slaves in the Arabic areas, they were in the Mediterranean. If their were black Vikings, there wouldn’t have been many, most of the raids were in northern Europe, and most of the raiders were definitely Scandinavian. In Ukraine, besides the Russ (Vikings), there was a Muslim kingdom, and a Jewish kingdom, the Khazars. They have found a fews swords made with high carbon steel, which would have come from the Eastern Mediterranean. They traded, they raided, all peoples were involved in the slave trade. It is a possibility, not because of any reason that people now would have wanted or not wanted there to be. If they existed, they would have been few and far between, and the odds of any being in Wales would have been infinitesimal.
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@CymruCelt01 and one people in Africa are not all the peoples of Africa, that proves nothing. The reality is that we are all speaking in hypotheticals, there is no proof in either direction. All i ever said was that it was possible, seems that even the possibility is a hot spot for some people. Some because of racial issues, some because of a romanticized version of the Vikings. One person even claimed that the Viking sagas, Heimskringla, and Landnamabok were written by an English monk. Possibly confusing the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles and the Venerable Bede with the sagas, and possibly ignorant of Snorri Sturluson. Some people have a more static view of history,. Long before the Vikings, the Visigoths crossed from eastern Europe to Spain, Portugal, and North Africa, for instance. People traveled vast distances then, and that is difficult for people to grasp, in the present..Also, Ireland, was settled by Mediterranean peoples, long before the Celts arrived. The Fir Bolg and Fomorians were probably Phoenicians, there are copper and tin (= bronze when combined) mines in Cornwall. The Tuatha de Danan were the people of Dana, Danu, Diana, and part of the Sea Peoples who overran the Eastern Mediterranean at one time. The Celts arrived later. They actually invented the grain reaper, long before Cyrus McCormick did
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@CymruCelt01 to hell with ignorance, so some research, done with your defensiveness. I am simply asking, because i could read your sources, if you have any, and i could learn. But, you choose to be accusative and uptight. I am willing to learn more any subject, you choose not to give me sources, and be emotional about the whole thing, so you miss a real teaching opportunity, good luck to you
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@CymruCelt01 if you believe in historical accuracy, then you would know the Phoenicians were there before the celts, as were some other races. The first Celts to arrive were the Milesians, known as the sons of Mil, and they came form Celtic settlements in Spain, , and there still are heavily Celtic areas there, Asturias and Galicia. Calm down, and do some research! Take the time to support your arguments with research. Since you want to accuse me of what you are doing, it is pretty easy to diagnose what you are doing, that is the classic tactic the right wing plays in the US. Or maybe you just have a strong belief, if so, get supporting evidence, otherwise you are speaking from somewhere with no support. I researched it once again to see if I was wrong about the Celts (there is no way ever know about black folks and the Vikings, we would have to run DNA tests on ever skeleton ever left by them, to know. You sure get hostile over me saying it is possible, but that it would be only a few, if any). So i don’t have to accuse you, you have not brought any evidence to prove either of your assertions. As for the possibility of a black warrior in a Viking crew or household, the likelihood of proving it either way would not be very possible. As for the Celts being there before the Phoenicians, i looked it up once again, as i am willing to admit if i was wrong, but the evidence says they were not. If you have not read The Story of the Irish Race by Seumas MacManus, it names the progression of migrations, and the Phoenicians were there before the Celts, but were not the first settlers, people had settled there prior to the Phoenicians, and they weren’t Celts.
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@gretheeriksen-mller8643 if there was a saga about that time and place. As for standing out they certainly would have, and would have been mentioned. It is easy to observe that most people really do not realize the width and breadth of where the Vikings travelled. Or many other peoples in the ancient world. We are used to thinking ourselves as superior in many ways, we have cars, planes, ships powered by engine, and communication devices that cross vast distances in a matter of moments, even so, all of these are not always reliable. Most people cannot conceive of Vikings outside of the northern realms, yet they were far travelers. They lived in the Azores before the Portuguese arrived there, according to recent evidence. They were the personal guard, the Varangians, of Byzantine emperors (the only discussion of that i have seen in the sagas, is in Harald Hardrada’s Saga, but there could be more), and there would surely be black traders, as well as slaves within the Byzantine Empire. They were all over the Mediterranean, even sacking a northern Italian city they thought was Rome. The Rus even attacked Constantinople. Not all Vikings were raiders, many were traders. There were extensive slave markets, as well as many other markets, the breadth and length of the ancient world. So, it is entirely possible that there could be black Vikings, but surely not many, if any. A good man with weapon skill would be a desirable addition to a crew, especially in the larger raids, with many crews involved. And, it is entirely possible that one of them could have fathered children with a black woman or slave, in their travels or their owning of slaves. The sagas touch upon the lives of only a relative few of the Vikings, even the peripheral characters, compared to the vast numbers of Vikings throughout a number of centuries where they were ascendant. It is possible, but i know if no record of any, we can never know fir certain, among the multitudes and the vast distances these remarkable people traveled.
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@gretheeriksen-mller8643 again, neither you nor i can ever know that for certain. Their reign was over centuries. Gudrid the Far Traveler visited every Scandinavian country, made a pilgrimage to Rome, was a contemporary of Leif Erickson and Thorfinn Karlsefni, went with them to Vinland, gave birth at L’Anse Aux Meadows. They settled the Azores in the 700’s, many were farmers, raiders, traders. Have you read the Landnamabok, Heimskringla, Orkneyinga, the Faroe saga, Burnt Njal, Vinland Sagas, Grim’s Saga, Helgi’s Saga, the Travels of Ibn Fadaln, an Arab Trader who encountered the Rus, Harald Hardrada’s Saga, Saga of the Jomsvikings, do you know of the king of Dubhlin, who was called cuaran (Curran), because he wore Irish shoes rather than Norse, Hrolf Kraki, Grettir the Strong, the siege of Paris, Egil Skallagrimsson, and many, many more. The Danes once counted part of what is now Norway as part of the Danemsrk. Incredible, intrepid people, invested in law, and in Iceland, democracy, and in Viking society, women had far more rights than in ancient Athens. Recently, a ship burial was found in Sweden or near Sweden, where the crew had obviously had a rough time of it. The captain was in the middle, buried with their weapons. Originally, the captain was assumed to be a man, but has been proven to be a woman. There was a red haired woman viking captain of several ships which raided SW England and parts of Ireland. Amazing people!
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