Comments by "Charles Eye" (@TheCharleseye) on "Secular Talk"
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+Gabriel Cowley Whether it seems strange to you or not, it's how things work. We're talking about public perception, not what your responsibilities are. If you are okay with certain people representing a group you belong to, you let them speak for said group. If you are not okay with it, you speak up.
You use the example of whether you should speak out against Communists. That depends. Do you feel that Communists are publicly claiming that their brand of "Leftism" is the only true Leftism? Do you think that the public, in general, feels that anyone left of center is a Communist? If so, I would imagine you might have something to say about that. I assume that you don't though, given that you are using this example to try to disprove my statement.
Again, this is a perception issue. Feminists are perceived as "man-hating femi-nazis" because they are being represented as such. If it's not up to Feminists to deal with whether or not they're okay with being perceived this way, who do you propose is responsible for dealing with it?
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+DAK4Blizzard Yes, because historically, the bigger army always wins, right? I mean, that's why we're still a British colony after all. It's also why we so easily dispatched the Vietnamese and the North Koreans in those wars, right? Wait, no. We didn't.
So let's try to tidy this up because now you're just trying to spread it in every direction possible. Your claim is that the second amendment - which specifically lists militias as the primary reason for our Right to bear arms and outlines no other reason whatsoever - is not for the sake of being able to form militias. You claim that it has somehow transformed into meaning that we get to have guns for home defense and hunting and that it no longer applies to militias because you feel we don't need them any more. That's a pretty bold claim but I'll make it really easy for you. Just provide a link to the documents that changed the meaning of the second amendment to exclude militias and to include hunting (I've already seen the Heller transcripts, so I don't need you to show that they add self/home defense to the definition).
It's that easy. My claim is that the second amendment applies to militias and self/home defense. I've now cited my sources, which are the second amendment itself and the SCOTUS' Heller decision. Your "every day observations" don't trump written law. So, all you need is two sources. One for the addition of hunting to, and one for the exclusion of militias from the definition of the second amendment. It's really that simple.
Please don't respond without your sources. You don't actually have an argument without them. Your opinion as to whether militias are necessary is irrelevant. My opinion as to whether militias are necessary is irrelevant. We're talking about the legal definition of the second amendment to the Constitution. So, no more redirects. No more rhetoric. Just facts. PROVE that I'm wrong or walk away.
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Wait, let me word that properly for you: "The NRA is stopping the Federal Government from taking Rights away from thousands of people who the FBI has never even CHARGED with a crime, let alone got a conviction. Nobody currently on the terrorist watchlist has ever carried out an attack, yet a couple who wasn't on the list did."
So, let me see if I can understand. You folks want to ban a specific type of rifle that is responsible for less than 1% of all gun crime in the US. Ban magazines that, again, are used in less than 1% of gun crime. And take Rights away from American citizens without due process, because someone at the FBI decided to put their name on a list. Yeah, that's insane. Please stop with the emotional, knee-jerk reactions.
A quick question: Can anyone tell me what the process is for getting put on the watchlist? I'd love to know because the FBI sure is playing that one close to the vest. Do you have to be directly involved with terrorism? Do you have to be friends with someone who is involved with terrorism? Do you have to have spoken to someone who is involved with terrorism? What is the minimum requirement?
By the way, if you honestly feel that the 20,000 people on the list are a real threat, WHY AREN'T YOU MAD THAT THE FBI IS ALLOWING 20,000 DANGEROUS PEOPLE TO WALK THE STREETS?! If they're that bad, why do they have access to the public? Why can they buy everything they need to build explosives and also be allowed access to schools, malls etc? You're mad that they have access to guns? If they're really terrorists then I'M mad that they have free access to my children's school!
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