Comments by "Conor." (@conor.3875) on "Jubilee" channel.

  1.  @travisjohnson7065  A consenting woman carrying one?
    261
  2.  @travisjohnson7065  No human anywhere has the right to live inside someone else's body. Be serious.
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  3.  @commentstealer4460  That's the best you can do, is it?
    31
  4. Vegans don't eat dairy either.
    31
  5. For some children, he wouldn't be wrong.
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  6. I care about others. I care about the planet, and I care about the impact I have on it. I'm not going to treat it like a fucking motel room.
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  7. Animals are sentient. Plants are not. Will you idiots please stop pretending you don't understand that this is the difference?
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  8. ​ @onewordname4148  It says nothing by itself that favours that interpretation. You are projecting that meaning onto the quote when it very plainly isn't what it says. This is actually you moulding it to fit an agenda.
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  9.  @lopez8872  No she didn't. A person doesn't have to forfeit any kind of healthy sex life to not consent to pregnancy.
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  10.  @quentinm.williams9  Some views legitimately are superior to others. That's just true.
    11
  11. No, being a parent isn't the scariest thing in the world. Forced parenthood gets pretty close, though. That sounds seriously dystopian.
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  12.  @travisjohnson7065  Why do you keep trying to tell people that they agree with you really? You do this often enough for it to sound like a coping mechanism. You ought to have managed to make peace with the fact that not everyone thinks like you. That's a pretty basic thing to accept about the world before going into an argument with someone.
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  13.  Abel Abel  Leave it. You're not going to use reason on someone who has made an active decision to shut their head off.
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  14. At the first few weeks it has basically nothing that makes a life valuable. It's alive like an onion is alive.
    9
  15.  @matt1325  You aren't treating a person as valuable if you use them as an incubator against their will. That's very crassly dehumanising.
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  16.  @Ghxst750  He gave only humans specific rules about how and when they get to procreate. He might not want humans to procreate, since he's made it more difficult for us than any other animal...
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  17.  @anon546  I don't. What on Earth are you on about?
    7
  18. So?
    7
  19. And that would be your choice to put your own life at risk. I don't think you can justly say that should be forced on anyone.
    7
  20.  @edgylord5287  Yes there is. Some things are provably wrong. If your opinion goes against the facts, you're factually wrong.
    7
  21. That's still a flawed wording, being that it doesn't rule out laying with girls.
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  22. Other people don't get to use your body. If someone else's life depends on them using your body for life support, you have the right to say no to it. That's just not something we force on people.
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  23.  @isaacdossantos1944  Is there meant to be a contradiction there, or what?
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  24.  @OpenSafe17.11  That's fine. You were either able to have a grown-up discussion, or you weren't. I have my answer to that, at least.
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  25.  @Zac-oz9lj  Can people be happy living in repression and denial of what they are? I don't know if I buy it. A person has to be deep into something to do that to themselves on its altar. I wouldn't expect them to be honest with themselves or others about damaging effects it was having on them.
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  26. It's inside a body that is zero percent yours, so that doesn't wash.
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  27. The majority of the time, people having sex are not seeking to procreate. So no, procreation is not the primary purpose of sex.
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  28.  @lopez8872  Running the risk of something doesn't mean you have to accept it if it comes to pass. Think about what you risk when you cross a road or get into a car.
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  29.  @xkingxcj2015  You really need to get out more if you actually think that's the only way unwanted pregnancies come about.
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  30.  @quentinm.williams9  You don't need anyone's opinion to know that. It's just true.
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  31.  @Phin-germayas  How do you get that from what I just said to you, exactly?
    6
  32. All that bluster just to call someone ugly...
    6
  33. Abortion isn't an exercise in blame.
    5
  34. I surfaced from my igloo this morning to find Jonathan Anthony Altieri throwing my sleigh dogs into a meat grinder.
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  35. In what way are they mentally ill?
    5
  36. Nah.
    5
  37.  @travisjohnson7065  Most sex isn't done to procreate at this point. It doesn't exist to make babies any more than it exists to spread diseases.
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  38. Why not? He's been cool with abortion before.
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  39.  @zachman5150  What makes you think that?
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  40.  @zachman5150  How so?
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  41.  @zachman5150  ^Your response when asked to support your claim. How weak.☹
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  42.  @zachman5150  Weak. You made the claim about what it illustrates. It's on you to make an argument for why. Actually put something up or go back to eating your crayons.
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  43. The prefix, "cis" has been the opposite of the prefix, "trans" since forever. "Cisgender" pretty naturally came to mean the opposite of "transgender".
    5
  44.  @justapotato2434  Sex isn't designed to procreate and it doesn't the majority of the time it's engaged in, so no it wouldn't.
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  45.  @justapotato2434  "Why do people have sex if not to procreate" is essentially what you're asking, and that's quite a simple question.
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  46.  @justapotato2434  Well, "its purpose" is how you kept wording it. That doesn't mean what it does. That means why it's done.
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  47. I've literally never believed in a god. I've been an atheist my whole life. The people who support me through my tough times are my friends and family. Real people I have real relationships with. If you can't get through life without making believe that some god is always taking care of you, that's okay. You're entitled to that. But don't try to scare other people, who are actually brave enough to do without it, into feeling the same.
    5
  48. 🤯
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  49.  @nv3389  We still shouldn't be putting a potential person before an actual person.
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  50.  @Henry-gv3cy  It is if it's in a person's body against their will.
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  51. What's your problem with "cis"?
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  52. I don't actually know how many male-to-female trans people there are compared to female-to-male.
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  53. They fail sometimes. The world isn't perfect.
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  54. Who cares whether life starts at conception or not?
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  55.  @Tomb-Wraith  No it isn't. Moral principles always have exceptions. The reason something is done is a consideration in the moral nature of it. Don't be so glib.
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  56. Cis women, yes.
    4
  57.  @matt1325  Your argument using nature to determine whether something is a moral obligation does in fact make it fallacious.
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  58. Nah.
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  59.  @travisjohnson7065  Oh, please. If you're in favour of denying women the choice to end their pregnancies, you are in favour of forced pregnancies. Just own it.
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  60.  @matt1325  Strawman.
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  61.  @angryinternetperson6629  "Animals eat eachother to survive too. What's the difference with humans eating animals?" Sorry, dude. That really is what you just asked. Not eating meat reduces demand for animal products, ergo fewer farm animals are bred. That's something changed. That link can say what it likes. The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics is the largest organisation of nutrition professionals on the planet, and they don't acknowledge its validity.
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  62. They all fail sometimes. The world ain't perfect.
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  63. It pretty much is a human life from conception. What does that mean for the discussion moving forward, though? Not very much, in my opinion.
    4
  64. They shouldn't be but they are.
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  65. Consent to playing baseball isn't consent to breaking anything. This would be a point worth making if there were people arguing that someone who plays baseball should be forced to break things.
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  66. They aren't, though. I'm an atheist, and always have been. I've never had a god to be angry at.
    4
  67.  @Zac-oz9lj  Then you can't just tell me he's not in denial, either. You wouldn't know that he's not lying to himself about his unhappiness any better than I'd know he is. Neither of us can know for a fact what's in another person's head. All either of us can have is suspicions, and I'll share mine if I want to.
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  68.  @Zac-oz9lj  So you're literally denying that people can lie about how they feel. Okay bro... 👋
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  69.  @zachman5150  Find something to do, Zach.
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  70.  @zachman5150  So literally asking the relevance of something is irrelevant...
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  71.  @zachman5150  Nice, but, the etymology of the word, "fetus", (which was actually given incorrectly) isn't an argument for any of that, so the OP remains irrelevant. Well done for "ascertain", though.
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  72.  @norahal8310  We don't force women to incubate eagle eggs either, so no we don't.
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  73. It isn't just about comfort. It's about rights.
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  74. A black box is not a box. It is a black box.
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  75. I don't think they'd use it.
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  76.  @majinhiei7  You just said you literally deserve to burn forever. That's what you're calling "expressing faith in Jesus", I'm guessing. Pretty much any sane person would find it sad to hear that a person thinks that badly of themselves. What you just heard wasn't butt-hurt. It was pity.
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  77.  @crimsoncourt9354  "Murder baby" is not an option either. Abortion ain't murder.
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  78. That honestly does sound like it sucks...
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  79. I'm not pro-life and I AM a vegan. I hold to their morals better than they do...
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  80.  @chaeyuuu2193  Not entirely true, what you initially said, then.
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  81.  @zachman5150  Something doesn't need to be exceptional for there to be a word for it.
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  82.  @zachman5150  "Women" includes non-standard women.
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  83.  @zachman5150  They're social categories, mostly. Apart from that I more or less agree.
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  84.  @zachman5150  You were doing so well...
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  85. ​ @zachman5150  The social aspects a person observes usually correspond to the sex they were assigned at birth. But not always. People for whom this is not the case are transgender. Personality and temperament are irrelevant. But if gender refers to social aspects, then "gender roles" absolutely is synonymous. Gender roles aren't a biological occurrence. They're cultural, or indeed, 𝘴𝘰𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘭. There is nothing about the system you've just described that contradicts my position. I'm sure your financial status is perfectly fine. The concerns your behaviour raises are more mental. Your thinking is abnormally repetitive, and you engage in hyperbolic, hysterical, vitriolic rhetoric that gives the impression that you aren't doing too well, personally.
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  86.  @zachman5150  We aren't talking about biology. We're talking about gender. Gender refers to the sex assigned at birth, and the social aspects of being male or female, respectively.
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  87. No, you can.
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  88. Do pro-choice and aborted kids next.
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  89. Lol. Are there actually people who just have no estrogen in them?
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  90. It's their bodies being used. The final say is theirs.
    3
  91.  @matt1325  Targeting someone's character isn't always an ad hominem.
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  92.  @kubush  Yes.
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  93.  @aidanaldrich7795  "Pro-abortion" would mean the position that pregnancies should be aborted, and no one here is arguing that. So it is inaccurate. I don't think you're lying though. You're more likely just kind of a dope.
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  94.  @Tomb-Wraith  Since what you've just done is flatly deny morality in its most common-sense form I'm going to pay you the compliment of assuming you just didn't fully think that over before replying with it.
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  95.  @Tomb-Wraith  You just called it hypocrisy to think something is permissible in some circumstances and not others. This isn't about abortion. That's just a devastatingly inept thing to say in a discussion about morality.
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  96.  @zachman5150  "so they really have no business blaming anyone but themselves" So what was the point of this?
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  97. Think religion wins arguments do you?
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  98.  @lfdy4368  That isn't pain, dude. That's like saying a laptop can feel pain because it has anti-virus software.
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  99. People don't get to kick whoever they don't want out of public spaces. They have rights.
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  100.  @zachman5150  And what's the basis for it?
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  101.  @zachman5150  That's the literal negation of what you initially said. Have you even decided what your position is?
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  102. No it's not. Sex is something people do. It's for what people use it for.
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  103. CJD CJD Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
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  104. CJD CJD You really are reaching here. You've started by admitting that the Bible is so flimsily written that it can say something totally plainly and bluntly, but still mean something else. Nothing written in a book like this should be afforded any credibility. In any case, this is just a tautology. You either have a god who creates evil, or you have a god that creates the good and evil dichotomy, and allows good to be absent. You aren't arguing about whether or not your god created evil. You're arguing about how he creates it.
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  105.  @matt1325  "You might say I'm appealing to nature, but I'm definitely appealing to nature."
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  106.  @libby.i  The reason a zygote isn't a human isn't because it's too small.
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  107.  @zachman5150  Relax... Don't be a drama queen.
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  108.  @zachman5150  You're hysterical.
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  109.  @zachman5150  Have you figured out what a "natural consequence" is yet? If so, do explain it.
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  110.  @zachman5150  I guess I'll just ask you again another month later...
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  111.  @albinsiby7  You're weird.
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  112.  @albinsiby7  You're weird.
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  113. Many don't have to.
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  114. What exactly makes you think she's speaking for a majority?
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  115. It doesn't help. It just gives kids the idea that hitting stuff is a sound way to get what they want. If it's not abusive it's just a bad idea. It's against the law in the UK now. If you hit a kid, you get common assault same as you would if you did it to anyone else.
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  116. They are. "trans and lgbt" is redundant btw. The "T" in LGBT stands for trans.
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  117.  @zachman5150  For...?
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  118.  @zachman5150  I don't. You're weird.
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  119.  @zachman5150  Trans women are women, yes. The clue's in the name.
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  120.  @zachman5150  A trans woman being a woman doesn't involve a male becoming female.
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  121.  @zachman5150  Because they aren't males who became female...
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  122.  @AngelOfMusic20  They're generally unpleasant...
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  123.  @zachman5150  Your response is vacuous.
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  124.  @zachman5150  Paragraph after paragraph of hysterical, outraged bluster and then you walk away because you were caught with your foot in your mouth. 🤡
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  125. Whatever, cissy.
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  126.  @travisjohnson7065  Yes it does.
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  127. I think you might have missed the point of this argument...
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  128. Humans are animals, dude. There's no getting away from that whether you're vegan or not.
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  129. He was just a loudmouth.
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  130. Gender dysphoria isn't a delusion.
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  131.  @faithuncompromised4804  Pretty much all Christians do...
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  132. 🙃We should be A-OK here, then...
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  133. golden retriever puppy sodomized my friend's dog while singing vulgar nursery rhymes.
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  134. Why not?
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  135. You don't have to call yourself cis. You can describe yourself however you like.
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  136. How is "cisgender" derogatory? "Straight" already means something unrelated, so I don't see what you're driving at, there.
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  137.  @zachman5150  That's your objection. Not 𝘵𝘩𝘦 objection. This person clearly has a different opinion. He didn't say "cisgender" was redundant. He said it was derogatory. Those aren't synonyms.
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  138. Because that's a blanket statement about something wildly variable. Those always end up being wrong at a certain point.
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  139.  @zachman5150  Have you actually just been a spam-bot all along?
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  140. It ain't his body as much as the woman's. That's the point.
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  141.  @zachman5150  Do you call anything that's alive a "someone"?
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  142.  @OpenSafe17.11  No.
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  143. @Humanity Galatica You already have. "Someone" is necessarily a person.
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  144.  @Zac-oz9lj  I don't think what I'm saying is ridiculous. If it really was you wouldn't keep having to change it to argue with it.
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  145.  @thesecretcommenter3730  That generally is how it's done. Adolescents are prescribed puberty blockers to buy time to decide. Children should not be taking hormones and transgender people shouldn't be forced into the irreversible effects of a puberty they didn't want.
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  146.  @KatholischerGottesdiener  So even Jesus agrees that it's messed up...
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  147. Does anyone actually "feel like" a woman?
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  148.  @zachman5150  How do you know?
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  149.  @zachman5150  Answer the question.
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  150.  @zachman5150  Here, I'll help you: The correct answer is that you actually don't know. There is no way for any person to acquire a reference for the feeling of womanhood. If no woman has ever not been one, they have nothing to compare with. They have no way to identify any feeling they have as the feeling of being a woman, that is, assuming such a feeling exists at all, which the case for is only slightly less poor.
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  151. But it wasn't our choice, and it really shouldn't have been
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  152.  @zachman5150  ok karen
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  153. Generalisation City.
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  154.  @escandon785  Scientists don't say abortion is murder. Sorry to have to tell you.
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  155. Why doesn't everything you've just said work as well for theist scientists?
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  156.  @zachman5150  I wasn't asking your feelings.
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  157. What's with the weird kids who keep spamming and calling each other child molesters?
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  158. I don't think having a sound foster care system would make me any more okay with forced pregnancies.
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  159. I've seen the world. I don't see how it has an artist...
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  160.  @robgarry7858  What makes you think it's a lie?
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  161.  @vtaylor21  The organs do in fact reproduce, but "purpose" does not refer to what something does. It refers to why it's done. Conception is a common natural side-effect of sex, but it's no more its innate purpose than the transmission of diseases.
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  162.  @vtaylor21  "Conception is a common natural side-effect of sex, but it's no more its innate purpose than the transmission of diseases." Do you think this sentence states that conception IS the innate purpose of sex?
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  163.  @vtaylor21  Because a number of organs can produce pleasure. Calling them "pleasure organs" would not effectively differentiate them. "Reproductive organ" is a descriptive label. Not a prescription of purpose. People decided to call them "reproductive organs". So do people get to decide the purpose or not? Would its innate purpose change if we started calling them something else? You are arguing for an objective purpose of something by appealing to people's subjective labelling of it. This is not how objectivity works.
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  164.  @brandtdhowett2507  Pain doesn't mean any response to stimuli.
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  165.  @Nameless10949  Churches don't make anything right. They don't own morality.
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  166.  @zachman5150  Cis is EXTREMELY relevant. Cis is a term used in chemistry to describe the position of certain molecules, one from another. Now you know
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  167.  @hello-sz7hp  It's also like asking "why can't I abort a pregnancy with them? That means it's okay to make me donate a kidney to them if they need one in their thirties." Is it? I don't think so. Do you? Why?
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  168.  @hello-sz7hp  So your new rule is "parents are responsible to their offspring - as long as nothing unusual happens."
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  169.  @hello-sz7hp  - but not when it's the result of something unusual.
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  170.  @zachman5150  ...??? Where did I mention the word, "women"? I said "cis" as a prefix is the opposite of "trans", which it is.
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  171. It is. Whether it's alive or not doesn't decide the matter.
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  172.  @TheLegendOfRandy  You could appeal to a standard of personal responsibility to make the distinction. You could argue that women who've been raped are due an exemption because they had no consenting part in the conception of the child. Their predicament is not their own doing. There's nothing for them to have to accept responsibility for.
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  173. Whether or not someone anti-abortion makes an exception for rape gives you a better idea of where they are on the whole topic.
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  174. How come? The "cis" part just means not trans.
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  175.  @justapotato2434  That really was what you asked. If it's not what you meant to ask, you misspoke. Sex is something people engage in. It's for what people do it for.
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  176.  @shoazdon7000  Weak.
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  177. Nah...
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  178. If I just said "woman" I could be talking about a trans woman. I'll say "cis woman" if I need you to know I'm not.
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  179.  @Dbulkss  It's not though. Not all the sex people have is to procreate. Most of it actually isn't.
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  180.  @Irmis98  You don't know me...
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  181.  @yohannesayele6325  He must just like watching animals procreate more.
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  182. ​ @roseczy  Are you trying to say that that's a good reason to eat it?
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  183. You're so hopeless at arguing for your side that your best bet is to pretend you can read minds and just say everyone already agrees with you. That's all you just told us here.
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  184.  @noiceb6170  Liar. "The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another."
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  185. How are his race and gender relevant?
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  186.  @zachman5150  The world contains trans people. You don't seem to be adapting too well to that.
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  187.  @Nonalhomophobie  I assume Christians care, since it's their playbook and all.
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  188.  @Nonalhomophobie  Then in what sense are they Christians?
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  189.  @Nonalhomophobie  Not really. Religion and Christianity describe specific beliefs. Calling yourself a Christian for reasons as vague as because you feel like one doesn't leave the word with very much meaning.
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  190. ​ @matt1325  Why? You said her life is of equal value to the fetus'.
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  191.  @st4rr1n46  So why do other women get a say if the baby isn't theirs?
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  192.  @st4rr1n46  They care about babies?
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  193.  @st4rr1n46  Same reason I decide that stealing is illegal when I'm not even a thief.
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  194.  @st4rr1n46  The people getting abortions aren't the consideration. The ones being aborted are.
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  195. They both are. Just being a life doesn't actually mean very much.
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  196. Cis women. No hyphen.
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  197. I actually don't have to. You made the claim. Not me. Burden of proof's on you. Step up.
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  198.  @legstitchedtigerftw2455  Most things are.
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  199.  @nv3389  Why?
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  200.  @nv3389  No. Life isn't worth much if one doesn't have what they need. And why the "human" qualification? I assume it's because there are caveats to your value for life.
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  201. Yes he did.
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  202. They got a queer to represent queers. Live with it.
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  203.  @danielchavez6275  Probably.
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  204.  @zachman5150  Because they're labels we mostly apply to people we only interact with socially.
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  205. ​ @zachman5150  Because they aren't men. Where bathrooms are gender-segregated, the bathroom corresponding to their gender would be the women's. The framework for gender you just gave did not include biology at all.
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  206.  @zachman5150  Restrooms, sports teams, dressing rooms, prisons and such are social constructs. They're implemented however we choose to implement them.
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  207. We could just stop gender-segregating sports completely. We'd have one league and just let individuals place where they place in it.
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  208. Trans women are women. Women can't be men.
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  209.  @zachman5150  People born intersex can be women, so that's false.
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  210.  @zachman5150  Do you know what a "natural consequence" is now?
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  211.  @zachman5150  Sound analogies are relevant, I'm afraid. Either repeat to me the part of your definition that rules out car crashes, or the analogy works.
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  212.  @koolmckool7039  I'm not sure how you go from "some people can't eat vegetables" to "the human species is designed to eat meat." That's quite a leap of logic you've just made. Also, the question was "are hippopotamuses carnivores?" If human canines prove that we've evolved to eat meat, then you'll have to also say that a hippo's teeth prove the same of them. Their teeth are way better equipped to pull flesh apart than ours.
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  213. @Vladislav Your juvenile sexual hangups are not of interest.
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  214. It would depend on the individual person, for me. I probably value the average person more than a fish, but there do exist people who are worthless enough for me to put them beneath a fish.
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  215. It's not a big deal to be vociferous, and it's not a big deal to be wrong about something. When you're both, people really take a dislike to you.
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  216. It's their bodies being used. The final say is theirs.
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  217. There'd be no point.
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  218.  @matt1325  You have some cheapening of the term to do if you want to call a non-sentient single cell a child.
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  219.  @matt1325  It doesn't and I didn't say it did. Size is not the only characteristic that being a single cell decides.
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  220.  @zachman5150  To try to make women solely at fault is not a balanced counter-perspective. It's just irrational in the opposite direction.
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  221. Both=?
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  222.  @victor_2216  "No such thing as both. Just a combination of both."
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  223. There's no ''but". A clump of cells can be a life. It's still a clump of cells.
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  224. Why would I want a biblical perspective?
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  225. Ask a woman.
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  226. Nah.
    2
  227.  @lfdy4368  They can't, though.
    2
  228.  @krasmasov6852  Nah that's way too loose. We are talking about killing something. There ought to be a bar for that higher than just a person wanting to.
    2
  229. How do you figure they're sexist against men?
    2
  230.  @zachman5150  Irrelevant. Men don't want in women's spaces. They're men.
    2
  231.  @zachman5150  Irrelevant. Personality is not under discussion. The fact is that there exist people whose presentational gender does not correspond to the sex they were assigned at birth. Whether this is describable as a member of one gender becoming one of the other is ultimately just semantics, so it isn't worth discussing.
    2
  232.  @zachman5150  "Gender" refers to social aspects, so yes, a person who conducts themselves socially in accordance with a gender is in fact a member of that gender.
    2
  233.  @zachman5150  Does an intersex person have no gender or do they constitute a third?
    2
  234. It's not a personal belief for them, though. It's not that abortion just isn't to their personal tastes. They see it as a moral wrong that has victims and needs to be stopped.
    2
  235.  @mattlopez8391  It's not murder.
    2
  236.  @zachman5150  You're completely stuck on this non-sequitur about identity changing biology, so for your purposes it probably is.
    2
  237.  @PeaceToUsAll  In that case it depends what you mean by "disbelief". You might mean to believe in the falsehood of something, or you might just mean to lack belief in it. If it's the latter, TombWraith's statement was true. At any given time, a person is either believing something, or not. Believing in a god makes a person a theist. "Not" makes a person an atheist. There isn't a middle ground between those.
    2
  238. There'd be no point. You'd still have men and women sharing a bathroom.
    2
  239.  @zachman5150  People aren't made to suffer consequences just for having risked them. That's not how it works in any other walk of society. Get real.
    2
  240.  @zachman5150  A woman having sex isn't a crime. I don't know what it really is with you, but it's really starting to sound like something pretty sad.
    2
  241. What do you even mean "the scientific conversation" about what it is? It pulls a fetus out of a uterus. What scientific details are we missing?
    2
  242. Sit on Timmy.
    2
  243.  @matt1325  It's a discussion. People have opinions. Some of them are men.
    2
  244.  @zachman5150  So this is where you got "Dunning-Kruger effect"... 🤣
    2
  245.  @zachman5150  This isn't normal.
    2
  246.  @TheLegendOfRandy  "It depends on the circumstances" seriously doesn't make any sense to you? Because that's really pretty basic.
    2
  247. If you don't allow people abortions, you're basically making them human life support machines with no right to say no to it. I don't think we ought to be okay with that.
    2
  248. So no Christian anywhere has a political affiliation?
    2
  249. "Haters gon hate." - Douche-bag Jesus.
    2
  250.  @travisjohnson7065  Involuntary childbearing. What a guy you are.
    2
  251.  @matt1325  That standard would qualify one of my eyelashes as a person.
    2
  252. Why would a woman have any greater say in what happens with other people's uteruses?
    2
  253.  @mariec3733  That's the point. You say you don't want anyone making those decisions but then you choose to single out men.
    2
  254. ​ @mixedfeelingsaboutturning1910  Why?
    2
  255. ​ @zachman5150  Have you figured out what a "natural consequence" is yet?
    2
  256.  @zachman5150  Have you figured out what a "natural consequence" is yet?
    2
  257.  @zachman5150  You haven't, have you?
    2
  258. *are
    2
  259. "pro-deather's".
    2
  260.  @albinsiby7  Weird.
    2
  261. No humans were eaten in this video...
    2
  262. Why?
    2
  263.  @zachman5150  Not you. 🤫
    2
  264.  @tkjohnson6599  Anyone who's a woman is part of a subcategory of woman.
    2
  265.  @angryinternetperson6629  Lmao. I might have told you what the difference was if you hadn't just tried to deny that you asked. I've just cited the consensus from The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, which is the largest organisation of nutrition scientists on the planet, and you respond by trying to say that it's me who's struggling with scientific facts. This really isn't looking good so far.
    2
  266. Yes. Drag is a performance piece. Being transgender is part of someone's life and identity.
    2
  267. ​ @zachman5150  Think. Like, actually think. Did I actually say any of that about myself? Do you actually know what it was I said? I don't know who you were actually arguing with when you wrote that, but it definitely wasn't me.
    2
  268.  @zachman5150  No, I didn't. I responded to a comment you explicitly directed at me. "Well, you're still here-- so apparently think yours is worth living and contributing here is evidence"
    2
  269. ​ @zachman5150  What something is said in response to actually does affect its meaning. What I said was in fact not in response to what you just said it was. The summary of the conversation you just gave was inaccurate.
    2
  270.  @zachman5150  You know you do agree with it, don't you?
    2
  271. Who says the main purpose of sex is to reproduce?
    2
  272. Beware Joey G. He walks throughout the canteen systematically eating the poor children's lunches.
    2
  273.  @timmy5387  Mr Stilton is an exemplary gentleman.
    2
  274.  @timmy5387  It's also been suggested that Mr Stilton is a fine and virtuous member of this community.
    2
  275.  @timmy5387  It's a suggestion I literally just made so no that's not a lie.
    2
  276.  @lillienwaligora6082  That makes it a belief. Not a fact. Facts aren't specific to religions.
    2
  277.  @lillienwaligora6082  Because you base your beliefs on something doesn't make it a fact.
    2
  278. How do you figure that trans people don't acknowledge sex? A person basically has to acknowledge their sex to know they're transgender.
    2
  279. Is anyone?
    2
  280. @Kuala Lampur Yes it is. It's your instruction manual. Not ours.
    2
  281. They don't have to. People just don't make anywhere near as much fuss about trans men. Make of that what you will.
    2
  282. Why? I generally find nutcases more bothersome when they agree with me...
    2
  283. In your opinion. Not everyone shares it. You have kids and are glad of it. It doesn't mean everyone will be. It certainly doesn't mean they should be forced to.
    2
  284.  @lodoss118  That's actually the topic of the discussion. If you're in favour of denying abortion rights, you are in fact in favour of forced childbearing.
    2
  285. My way's better.
    2
  286.  @zachman5150  "Gender dysphoria".
    2
  287.  @daxlucero2437  Yes, it actually does. Sex is a thing that people do. It's for what they use it for. Period.
    2
  288.  @MarkCommentates  And that's irrelevant.
    2
  289. You're weird...
    2
  290. ​ @zachman5150  "Shoulda, woulda, coulda..."
    2
  291. ​ @zachman5150  Women considering abortions aren't looking back on the problem. Their problem is the matter at hand. Shouldas, wouldas, and couldas aren't too useful in dealing with those.
    2
  292. ​ @zachman5150  No method of birth control is 100% effective. They all fail. This is a simple matter of probability. Not of comparative levels of knowledge among people using them. This question you've been repeating word-for-word like a nervous tick doesn't do your case any favours. It's glib and obtuse in very obvious and simple ways.
    2
  293.  @zachman5150  The last response on this thread is one from me to you. "No method of birth control is 100% effective. They all fail. This is a simple matter of probability. Not of comparative levels of knowledge among people using them. This question you've been repeating word-for-word like a nervous tick doesn't do your case any favours. It's glib and obtuse in very obvious and simple ways." You have not responded to it.
    2
  294.  @zachman5150  No method of birth control is 100% effective. They all fail. This is a simple matter of probability. Not of comparative levels of knowledge among people using them.
    2
  295.  @zachman5150  Why would I do that? I've answered your question three times now and you're still repeating it at me. What exactly is supposed to be in it for me at this point? I think I'll just refer you back to one of my questions that you ran from when I first asked: Are you on the autism spectrum at all?
    2
  296.  @HAL-ck4ov  He probably should, to be fair...
    2
  297.  @HAL-ck4ov  :o
    2
  298. We don't suck on cow tits, though.
    2
  299. About what?
    2
  300. It's a few steps further. It's taking someone off life support where the life support machine is your own body.
    2
  301.  @mariec3733  Why would half the population be invisible...? 😂
    2
  302.  @b.queens9863  English isn't your first language, is it?
    2
  303. "Why should I behave any differently from a wild animal?" is basically what you're asking.
    2
  304.  @matt1325  I asked if people were obligated to diseases. Not if diseases were obligated to people. Are people obligated to serve the needs of disease-causing viruses they contract?
    2
  305.  @zachman5150  I don't think the objection to the label, "cis" is valid.
    2
  306. ​ @zachman5150  Then they shouldn't waste time raising their objections about language with me.
    2
  307. What's your problem with "cis"?
    2
  308.  @zachman5150  I wasn't talking to you, though.😐
    2
  309.  @zachman5150  Didn't ask...
    2
  310.  @zachman5150  I asked someone else's opinion. Not yours.
    2
  311. @Humanity Galatica A chicken is a being.
    2
  312. @Humanity Galatica So?
    2
  313. @Humanity Galatica As is its being human.
    2
  314. @Humanity Galatica Quite not.
    2
  315. *Cis
    2
  316. Says who? Women probably want their independence as much as anyone else. It's just human to want the freedom to self-determine. It's not a failing of men that women want power. Men and women all do. Women are just as welcome to throw their hats in the ring.
    2
  317. There'd be no point.
    2
  318.  @KatholischerGottesdiener  Yep.
    2
  319. There'd be no point. Trans people will still use the bathrooms fit for them as they see. If you tried to put enforcements against this in place you'd create a much nastier problem than you were trying to solve. If you're really convinced that the bathroom thing is a problem that needs solving, all you could do would be to just stop gender-segregating them. One bathroom for everyone.
    2
  320. ​ @zachman5150  "as women" is not a point of view. That's meaningless.
    2
  321. They fail sometimes. The world ain't perfect.
    2
  322.  @ChristAcolyte  This is the evidence part...
    2
  323.  @hemakshrao3097  The food chain that human beings are at the top of is a social construct. This isn't a delusion. It's a fact. Humans do not top any naturally occurring food chain.
    2
  324.  @lotus9865  "Kinds" aren't a concept in biology. It's a piece of creationist rhetoric that allows for goalposts to be constantly moving for being described with language that literally means nothing.
    2
  325. Don't be too sure.
    2
  326.  @zachman5150  To be transgender or supportive of those who are is not to be simply unable to differentiate male from female. You don't actually think it is, in any case. You're being deliberately obtuse. This is your go-to because engaging with the actual subject matter puts you out of your depth.
    2
  327.  @zachman5150  Copypasta 🥱
    2
  328. No he's not. I am. And he knows nothing of my work.
    2
  329. Would you feel threatened to see Blaire White in the washroom knowing that she's trans and anatomically male, though?
    2
  330.  Matt  Seriously though are you all the same person?
    2
  331.  @HAL-ck4ov  You may have been in this a little too long.
    2
  332.  @TheFaySchoolKids  No homophobic slurs, please.
    2
  333.  @TheFaySchoolKids  Insulting homophobes by suggesting that they're gay kind of defeats the object.
    2
  334. ​ @TheFaySchoolKids  Hmm. So dodging by trying to correct my English didn't work, so now you're just flatly denying it... It's blindingly obvious what you meant to say. You aren't fooling anyone.
    2
  335.  @zachman5150  You've as yet failed to establish that the OP has any relevance. Until you do, I have nothing to refute. 😴
    2
  336.  @zachman5150  No relevance, then. Neat. You didn't have to spend all that effort pretending it was an argument for anything.
    2
  337. *Driving is to car accidents
    2
  338.  @zachman5150  By driving. The one and only action that causes car accidents.
    2
  339.  @cloroxistoxic2077  We're talking about cause and effect. Not fault. Those are different things. Abortion isn't a disciplinary measure against fetuses. You have obviously misunderstood the entire topic.
    2
  340. Nothing in particular. Predators generally don't offend in public, though, for reasons that hold true for restrooms.
    2
  341. "Woman" just isn't a biological category. There is no biological feature you could name that applies to all women and only women. It's a social category and pretty much always has been.
    2
  342. ​ @janyass859  No, people identify as the race they feel they are.
    2
  343.  @zachman5150  What are you rambling about now?
    2
  344.  @vtaylor21  Read what I wrote again. I think you missed something quite important.
    2
  345.  @vtaylor21  "Conception is a common natural side-effect of sex, but it's no more its innate purpose than the transmission of diseases." You think this statement means that conception IS the innate purpose of sex, do you?
    2
  346.  @vtaylor21  I said that procreation is NOT the innate purpose of sex. You've responded several times now as if I'd said the exact opposite of what I actually did.
    2
  347.  @vtaylor21  Once again: Purpose is not what something does. Purpose is what something is intended to do. People seeking to procreate intend sex to perform the function of procreating. People seeking to achieve pleasure from sex do not. Procreation and pleasure are both intended functions of sex. Neither is its objective primary function.
    2
  348.  @vtaylor21  "if purpose explains what something is intended to do, it is explaining what it does." This is in fact incorrect. What something does is separate from what it is intended to do. What biology cares about is irrelevant, because the reality is that biology doesn't care about anything. Biology is not a sentient entity. Raising points about what biology "cares" about is nonsensical. There is objective function. I believe this. The actual problem is that you are conflating objective function with purpose, meaning and intent which are all 𝘴𝘶𝘣𝘫𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘷𝘦 matters.
    2
  349. @Pastafarian Yes you are. A church is a building designated for public worship. There are in fact places like this that marry same sex couples. Get over it.
    2
  350. @Pastafarian I don't care how the Bible defines "church". I care how the English language does. Open a dictionary.
    2
  351.  @matt1325  Whether to be "surprised" that babies appear in wombs is actually not what's being discussed.
    2
  352. Why only for a period of time? Why doesn't it get access to your body indefinitely?
    2
  353.  @zachman5150  ... And? Who here do you think is arguing about legislation?
    2
  354. You're weird.
    2
  355. Well, luckily enough, we do have grocery stores. So how about you stop pretending humans are still primitive hunter gatherers, and accept the 21st century?
    2
  356. It depends on the circumstances, dude. Use your common sense...
    2
  357. *cis woman. It's two words.
    2
  358.  @andyscott15  Leviticus 25:44-46
    2
  359.  @andyscott15  "Don't harm them" would have been a better caution than "enslave them instead". You can hardly call that, "saving" them... The Bible contains specific rules about how slaves can be treated. It says masters can beat their slaves as long as they don't die from it within a day or two. This isn't super-happy-friendly slavery, dude. These slaves were probably treated how you'd expect a slave to be.
    2
  360. Not quite.
    2
  361.  @rdslayer738  Are you trolling?
    2
  362.  @braynjohnson  Whether it's a life is irrelevant to the moral and ethical discussions surrounding abortion. There is no legal discussion to speak of. Abortion is in fact legal. That's that.
    2
  363. She.
    2
  364.  @zachman5150  She. Feminine. Pronouns are gendered. Not sexed. You aren't remotely equipped to debate me about language. Don't waste my time.
    2
  365. It doesn't, but I don't think pro-lifers view that as relevant.
    2
  366.  @zachman5150  You care a little too much...
    2
  367.  @zachman5150  👎
    2
  368.  @zachman5150  Yeah, you said that to the last person. There's really not a lot to you is there?
    2
  369.  @matt1325  Who said it did?
    2
  370.  @travisjohnson7065  "... or just resort to baseless insults?" puts the tone a little on the adversarial side...
    2
  371. "Cis", in this context is abbreviated from "cisgender".
    2
  372. @Kuala Lampur The word, "hate" doesn't have to be in there. A definition of something doesn't have to include literally every accurate descriptor of it you silly boy. That isn't what a definition is.
    2
  373.  @zachman5150  Trans women are not men. Women can't be men.
    2
  374.  @zachman5150  No.
    2
  375.  @zachman5150  The word, "no"?
    2
  376. ​ @zachman5150  Declaring something to be a fact doesn't make it so, I'm afraid.
    2
  377.  @zachman5150  Please quote my declaration that trans women are not men just because I said so.
    2
  378.  @zachman5150  You fabricated the "because I said so" part, then.
    2
  379.  @zachman5150  I knew you weren't. I was just making you acknowledge your cheap-as-dirt rhetorical tactic.
    2
  380.  @zachman5150  So why do you keep calling them women?
    2
  381.  @zachman5150  You said that trans women were men. The term, "trans women" contains the word, "women".
    2
  382.  @zachman5150  So why have you been calling them women?
    2
  383.  @zachman5150  The term, "trans women" contains the word, "women". You called them trans women.
    2
  384.  @zachman5150  The noun in "trans women" is "women". You're calling them women. Not hard.
    2
  385.  @zachman5150  You're hysterical. Go away and calm down.
    2
  386.  @zachman5150  That's you out of steam, I think. See you 'round.
    2
  387.  @zachman5150  You gave up on arguing the actual topic quite quickly. What you've started doing instead is not flattering you.
    2
  388. So?
    2
  389. *cis
    2
  390. golden retriever puppy's previous failure in correcting my English seems to have left him with quite a grudge. I'll let him seethe in peace for the moment. We might talk again when he returns to himself.
    2
  391. Believe what?
    2
  392. A trans woman is a woman. The clue is in the name.
    2
  393. Cis woman, yes.
    2
  394. ​ @zachman5150  I'm not arguing that there are more than two genders, Zach. If you know what it is I've said that made you assume this, please quote it for me. That was a very confused response. What I have managed to do though, is back you into arguing that females can have male organs and vice versa, which is progress I'm happy to see you make.
    2
  395.  @matt1325  Whether a fetus is a human being absolutely is a fair question.
    2
  396.  @matt1325  You think it's obvious. That doesn't tell us anything about how true your preferred answer actually is. All that's a measure of is how sure you feel of it.
    2
  397.  @matt1325  That's called an appeal to popularity fallacy.
    2
  398.  @matt1325  That's called an appeal to popularity fallacy.
    2
  399. I don't know, masochism?
    2
  400. Nah...
    2
  401. Nothing else in society works like that, dude. Think about what you're risking when you cross the road.
    2
  402.  @yohannesayele6325  Why does he want to then?
    2
  403. I think abortion is justifiable specifically because I value human life.
    2
  404. Why do you keep censoring the word, "abortion"?
    2
  405. ​ @nathanieldavis511  Why not? What makes a human being's life more valuable than an animal's?
    2
  406.  @matt1325  None of those traits are present in an embryo.
    2
  407.  @Jackerco  #1: Meat isn't necessary for a balanced diet. #2: This isn't how logic works. Your argument either works or it doesn't. Sensory pleasure is either a justification or it isn't. You don't get to say that it is a justification, but only for the thing you happen to be trying to justify at the moment. This is called "Special Pleading".
    2
  408. ... and what do pregnant rape victims need to do?
    2
  409. Because if you had a trans bathroom you'd still have men and women sharing a bathroom, and if you're okay with that you may as well just save yourself the effort and just have one bathroom.
    2
  410.  @Juuxr  Eh... One bathroom would be simpler.
    2
  411.  @noiceb6170  That's not what murder means.
    2
  412.  @skuastone9698  If you have a point to make, why don't you just make it? Instead of asking strangers to explain to you where babies come from like a screaming weirdo?
    2
  413. Feel better?
    2
  414.  @majinhiei7  You have to be literally as low as a thing can get to deserve to be tortured forever. Here you are, so out of your mind with hatred that you call it pride to think you're better than that. This really is tragic.
    2
  415.  @MsRikihana  Cis women are women, though.
    2
  416.  @zachman5150  You support forced pregnancy, is what you're saying.
    2
  417. All words are made up. Where do you think words come from?
    2
  418.  @zachman5150  "She" isn't female. It's feminine. There are no female pronouns in English, or any language that I'm aware of. Pronouns in English are gendered, not sexed.
    2
  419. What on Earth are on about...?
    2
  420.  @crimsoncourt9354  You missed out contraception.
    2
  421.  @crimsoncourt9354  No you don't. Abortion ain't murder.
    2
  422.  @crimsoncourt9354  No it's not. We're aborting them. Abortion isn't murder.
    2
  423. Yes they do.
    2
  424. Yeah, you said that...
    2
  425. Value isn't logical. It's subjective.
    2
  426. There are predatory people around. That's a concern of people cohabiting, period. It's not something transgender women have some responsibility to answer for.
    2
  427. What did Christ say about abortion?
    2
  428.  @zachman5150  What did Christ say about abortion? C'mon now...
    2
  429. How is absolute truth different from truth?
    2
  430.  @shihyuchu6753  Then what was the point of the word, "absolute"?
    2
  431.  @shihyuchu6753  That's what you just did.
    2
  432. Trans women. It's two words.
    2
  433. Yeah, right...
    2
  434.  @texasjoehotdog1838  Just imagine what it would become if I were to beset it with "nope" and "that's it".
    2
  435. @beautiful sound Well that's just your opinion.
    2
  436.  @requiemlul3140  Not necessarily.
    2
  437. It pretty much is.
    2
  438. You're weird.
    2
  439.  @Nonalhomophobie  I don't know why you've imported the term, "true Christian". The word, "Christian" describes a certain collection of beliefs. If a person doesn't hold them, they are inaccurately described as Christian. The word doesn't mean "a person who feels like a Christian", because if it did it would have absolutely no descriptive power.
    2
  440. No. Some eggs contain chickens.
    2
  441.  @sandymeganne3915  So you're cis.
    2
  442. Who says cis women don't want trans women in their bathrooms? When was the vote?
    2
  443.  @EricaTally  The only ethical choice that leaves you as a Christian is to just never vote.
    2
  444. Humans are animals. Just a fact of biology, dude.
    2
  445.  @Lobo.Blanco5AB  Well you don't know what an animal is, so it's pretty obvious you don't know much about biology.
    2
  446.  @Lobo.Blanco5AB  Because that's a fact. Humans are animals. That's just how it is. Emojis aren't going to change facts, kid. Sorry.
    2
  447.  @Lobo.Blanco5AB  If you can't face facts, that's on you. Calling them lies and blaming them on "lefties" isn't going to make them go away. You're an animal. Either get over it or go away.
    2
  448. "Cisgender" is what she was referring to as updated terminology. Trans and cis as prefixes have been around since forever, basically meaning "to the other side" and "on the same side" respectively. Trans/cisgender as terms though are relatively new.
    2
  449.  @zachman5150  It was first used as the chemistry term you keep copy/pasting about in 1888. It's existed as a prefix for much longer.
    2
  450. ​ @zachman5150  There are words from earlier than 1888 that use the "cis" prefix. It's a Latin derivation. Latin is from further back than 1888. I am quite provably correct. An individual being male or female permanently is irrelevant to the concept of transgenderism btw.
    2
  451.  @zachman5150  What tf was that about the history of "cis"? You just confronted me about something you know nothing about and don't even have much of an opinion on. Are you just arguing for the sake of it at this point?
    2
  452.  @zachman5150  That's a "yes".
    2
  453.  @earbunnyisgloomy9613  That's called an appeal to nature fallacy.
    2
  454.  @zachman5150  Who was in charge of you risking what went on in that delivery room?
    2
  455.  @zachman5150  You risked what happened in the delivery room happening. Ergo, you had a say in it.
    2
  456.  @zachman5150  That does nothing to counter the point that men have a choice in bringing about a pregnancy. The fact that they don't risk it happening to them doesn't mean they don't risk it happening.
    2
  457. Why? What don't you like about "cis"?
    2
  458.  @zachman5150  Not you 🤐
    2
  459.  @zachman5150  I already knew what your opinion was. Hence why I didn't ask it.
    2
  460.  @CalistaAlvarez  It just means "not trans", though.
    2
  461.  @zachman5150  Yes, it does.
    2
  462.  @zachman5150  You aren't being argued with. You're being corrected.
    2
  463.  @CalistaAlvarez  You are though.
    2
  464. They already did.
    2
  465. The conversation here is pretty much entirely about a word. It all leads back to who is allowed to have the term, "woman" applied to them.
    2
  466.  @franciscagaisie778  A person's gender still isn't decided by their sex.
    2
  467.  @godslight6293  Yes, they do.
    2
  468.  @zachman5150  It's a free country. The burden to justify is on those seeking to restrict freedoms.
    2
  469.  @nv3389  What if you don't want it to live off your body?
    2
  470.  @nv3389  How is that life vs life? A traumatised person is still alive. It's perfectly fair for you to share your opinion. I know what I'm saying might seem combative but I honestly am just asking questions.
    2
  471.  @fallon-may0935  Nah.
    2
  472.  @fallon-may0935  ... and what exactly does it mean to have "human nature"?
    2
  473.  @fallon-may0935  and what are its criteria?
    2
  474.  @fallon-may0935  What are the criteria for being "humanlike"?
    2
  475.  @fallon-may0935  But what does a human behave like?
    2
  476.  @hello-sz7hp  You're weird.
    2
  477.  @hello-sz7hp  You're weird.
    2
  478.  @Lucas-ec5db  I'm vegan.
    2
  479. Why, though?
    2
  480.  @dannyboy020  "Breeders".
    2
  481.  @dannyboy020  In reference to?
    2
  482. What is there to be proud of, exactly?
    2
  483.  @depressedhamburger4880  So anyone who doesn't eat meat is triggered.
    2
  484.  @loneboyhomesteader  That's hardly evidence of a god...
    2
  485. Not all humans are equally valuable. Some are probably worth more than a fish. Not all of them, though.
    1
  486.  @danielchavez6275  How so?
    1
  487.  @danielchavez6275  I don't. A lot of people don't agree with that. How does that make us twisted?
    1
  488.  @danielchavez6275  People aren't born with value. It's determined by their output.
    1
  489.  @danielchavez6275  I didn't say it was measured in money. Why have you started arguing with things nobody said?
    1
  490.  @danielchavez6275  I did answer you. A person's value is determined by their output. You've just said that I didn't answer you, and repeated my answer back to me in the same comment...
    1
  491.  @danielchavez6275  If my answer wasn't specific enough for you, you could have asked me to elaborate. Instead, you made lazy assumptions and started attacking a straw man. Everyone has a baseline presumed worth. How they spend their lives can either add to or subtract from it. No one knows what the worth of a newborn might be, so we reserve judgement. We assume that newborns have worth because that's the only way to find out if they do.
    1
  492. ​ @danielchavez6275  I mean the moral good that a person manifests over the course of their life. I would have clarified this if you'd just asked what I meant and hadn't also tried to answer for me.
    1
  493. ​ @danielchavez6275  So if you were able to save only one of two people, you wouldn't care to know anything about them before making the decision. No matter who either of them was, you may as well toss a coin for it.
    1
  494.  @bratva1354  Why shouldn't we be fighting about it?
    1
  495. Excuse you?
    1
  496. Atheism and agnosticism aren't part of the same spectrum, though. A person who's agnostic is still either theist or atheist.
    1
  497. No.
    1
  498. Sure: Don't eat other animals' flesh. Don't drink other animals' breast milk. Cool?
    1
  499. It's obviously not though.
    1
  500. Nah...
    1
  501.  @zachman5150  "A natural X is the natural Y" doesn't work as an explanation. Definitions of words don't contain the words they're defining. That defeats the purpose.
    1
  502.  @zachman5150  So repeat to me the part of that that stops car crashes qualifying.
    1
  503.  @screwston713SUC  So what tools have we specifically evolved to eat meat?
    1
  504.  @koolmckool7039  So are hippopotamuses carnivores? Also, what's your point in bringing up people with digestive disorders? You do know that vegetables and meat aren't the only foods in existence, right?
    1
  505.  @koolmckool7039  It raises the risk of heart disease, cancers and diabetes. That's bad.
    1
  506.  @koolmckool7039  #1: Name a disease that wholefoods vegan diets raise the risk of. #2: The consensus among nutrition professionals is that meat consumption is directly linked to these diseases. There is no cooking method that severs the link. If you think there is, then you'll need evidence of it.
    1
  507. Cisgender. Not trans.
    1
  508. Is it more valuable, though?
    1
  509.  @matt1325  Which part of that was an ad hominem?
    1
  510. The law doesn't decide right and wrong.
    1
  511. Nah.
    1
  512. So what? How does this make vegans idiots?
    1
  513. The Autons?
    1
  514. Why does it need inherent (as I'm assuming you mean) value? What's wrong with just having value?
    1
  515.  @icecreambeats101  Trans women competing in one league has the same problem as trans women competing in the women's league. There'd be no point.
    1
  516. Are you being a hunter and guardian of the ecosystem when you ask your mammy to get you chicken nuggets at the drive-thru? 🤣🤣🤣
    1
  517.  @advancedorange4818  I wasn't talking to you. You I basically agree with.
    1
  518. I think pro-lifers would say that it's pro-choicers forcing their beliefs on unborn kids.
    1
  519. When life starts isn't really relevant to this discussion. Nobody is blanketly against ending life.
    1
  520. The entire lifestyle of anyone living in a capitalist system exists because of capitalism, so you're basically saying that no one can ever criticise the system they live under.
    1
  521.  @susumukumo  You can say exactly that about anyone criticising the system they happen to live under, though.
    1
  522. Humans can. That's the relevant point.
    1
  523. @Barislav Yes there are.
    1
  524. 🤣
    1
  525. So?
    1
  526.  @demonologist6668  The language there isn't helpful.
    1
  527.  @isaakdlg1737  We do, though. Plants don't have nervous systems, they don't have brains. They're not sentient. No one said they weren't living, so stop pretending like we did. They aren't sentient, is what we're saying.
    1
  528.  @matt1325  You specifically raised the point of whether it's a child or not. I responded explicitly to a question you raised and you tell me you don't see the relevance...
    1
  529.  @matt1325  "You said nothings wrong with abortion because its not even a child if its 14 weeks old. Do you think at week 14 it becomes a person, or are you saying because its so young its not a person? Both seem equally as arbitrary." No you weren't.
    1
  530.  @justapotato2434  Probably at conception. But, it's literally the life of a fertilised cell. It's alive like a mushroom is alive. Not something I'm okay with turning a person into a childbearing slave for the sake of.
    1
  531. I noticed that of all these so-called "anti-abortion" people, not a single one of them is unborn...
    1
  532. Why not?
    1
  533. What your imaginary friend thinks animals are for is another thing that facts don't care about.
    1
  534. You're a shallow projectionist.
    1
  535. Why do you say it's not cheap?
    1
  536. Fuck off, Jesus.
    1
  537. Booze and smokes would be easier.
    1
  538.  @victor_2216  A "dysfunctional" combination of both is still a combination of both, genius.
    1
  539. Vegans are provably and objectively less violent than meat eaters. Sorry, but that just is the case.
    1
  540.  @elbamarg  What percentage of all vegans do you think you know?
    1
  541.  JoggaStoppa™  So?
    1
  542. Carbs aren't the same thing as sugar, there aren't any vitamins that vegan diets can't provide, and where are you getting the idea that people are quitting veganism because of malnutrition? Are you citing a statistic?
    1
  543.  @TisjeboyDavid  So they can get it. Supplementing is a way of getting it.
    1
  544.  @TisjeboyDavid  B12 occurs naturally in soil. The natural way for humans to obtain it would be through drinking water. But since we're purifying it now, this isn't viable. In any case, the natural way is not always the most efficient.
    1
  545.  @jeremydespair  Something doesn't need dreams for hurting it to be wrong. There are humans that what you're describing is true of. I'm assuming that you wouldn't see not killing them as immoral.
    1
  546. @Abel Abel Why would you make a case for something and declare it irrelevant in the same comment? What's the point?
    1
  547.  @Ireallyamprettynice88  You say it's truth, but that's not really enough. People don't believe things just because they hear them. At least not if they're being smart.
    1
  548.  @Ireallyamprettynice88  Believing whatever you hear takes a lack of both.
    1
  549. So?
    1
  550.  @annalisepipkin  Anything?
    1
  551.  @annalisepipkin  What is your point?
    1
  552. No. What's your point?
    1
  553. Probably. Not all of them are.
    1
  554. Food that there's no demand for doesn't get produced. So, yes, we actually are slowing production.
    1
  555. Why?
    1
  556. The world is better.
    1
  557. I agree in theory but there'd be pretty much no way to prove in court the circumstances of how a pregnancy came about.
    1
  558.  @zachman5150  "Gender is determined by sex. Females are women and males are men. Women have female organs and men have male organs. Females do not have male organs and males do not have female organs." If this is basically your position, the only thing you can do to save it is just deny that intersex people have either a sex or a gender. Any other position on intersex people contradicts at least some of it.
    1
  559. Bad joke.
    1
  560.  @yourboykaster  Well fascination is subjective. Do you not think that there are people who are more fascinated by animals?
    1
  561.  @yourboykaster  Do you think no other animals can love?
    1
  562.  @yourboykaster  Are there humans who don't love?
    1
  563.  @yourboykaster  But does every human love?
    1
  564.  @yourboykaster  I'm asking you if there exist people who don't. Should I take your wording, "most people" as a "yes" to this, or...?
    1
  565. Ew. Gay.
    1
  566. That only follows if the reason why it's wrong for us to eat animals is because we're animals, and I don't think anyone's saying that.
    1
  567.  @thrawl  "If humans are animals and it's wrong for us to eat other animals then it stands to reason that it is also wrong for any animal to eat or harm other animals" ^Look. "If humans are animals" is what you hinged the point on. If that has nothing to do with why it's wrong for humans it doesn't mean anything for whether or not it's wrong for animals.
    1
  568. You'd have to get specific about what you even mean by "the food chain".
    1
  569.  @zachman5150  Nothing about the utility of the word, "cis" depends on identity changing biology.
    1
  570.  @zachman5150  It doesn't. That's just as far into it you can go before you get confused, call it all "mental gymnastics", and tap out.
    1
  571. An atheist is a person who doesn't believe in any gods. The lady is an atheist. That's that. The old man doesn't have authority here just because he wrote a book. Anyone can do that. He should probably read one here and there.
    1
  572. Nah...
    1
  573. That doesn't address the pregnancy or labor, though.
    1
  574.  @essgeetee2614  Whether or not something's natural doesn't really have anything to do with whether it's right or wrong.
    1
  575. Provided no children come of it.
    1
  576.  @timmy5387  Why are they not?
    1
  577.  @timmy5387  I don't think the point is that incest is closer to being gay than straight. It's an analogy. The question is: If you think gay relationships are okay, do you think incestuous ones are too, and if not, why not? What can you say against incest that you can't say against being gay?
    1
  578.  @katiegeorge3824  I just said...
    1
  579.  @katiegeorge3824  Because gay relationships are what they were arguing about, I guess. And like I just said, the point isn't that incest is more like being gay than straight. It's an analogy. It's asking if you think incest is okay, because if you don't, and your reasons why not are basically all the same things that homophobic people say against being gay, you're kind of being a hypocrite.
    1
  580.  @timmy5387  ... Yes, you could ask the same question about being straight. "If you think straight relationships are okay, do you think incestuous ones are too?" Whether you use gay or straight, the sensible answer is yes. There is nothing sensible you could say against incest that you couldn't say against being gay or straight. Homophobes obviously disagree. Will you give an answer as to whether or not you do, please?
    1
  581.  @timmy5387  There. You actually said why you think they're different. Why was that so hard?
    1
  582.  @timmy5387  Do you not know what an analogy is?
    1
  583.  @bergstein88  gay.
    1
  584.  @liberationtoday8968  Why is it intrinsically exploitative to consume eggs?
    1
  585. That's a sure way to a miserable life...
    1
  586.  @natalie-qi5ft  Chucking the word, "sin" around gets you nowhere. It's meaningless.
    1
  587.  @natalie-qi5ft  Something is under discussion. Calling it "sin" does nothing to advance anything. It's a useless contribution.
    1
  588. How?
    1
  589.  @TroubleinSpace92  Not in the sense that they're wrong, then?
    1
  590.  @TroubleinSpace92  No one forced anyone to do anything, though. It was still just a conversation.
    1
  591. There are people that that's all true of.
    1
  592.  @stargazer1405  So?
    1
  593.  @stargazer1405  What do you eat?
    1
  594.  @zachman5150  Yes it is. Foreskins don't grow back.
    1
  595. You think you could stop a mountain lion from ripping you apart if it really wanted to?
    1
  596.  @Vitochie  I don't think that was an answer.
    1
  597. Not necessarily. I'm a vegan myself. I wouldn't say I'm pro-life.
    1
  598.  @legend-mj4gv  The alternative is worse.
    1
  599.  @legend-mj4gv  How's that?
    1
  600.  @wafflegrimes2430  "If you can't clearly see the problem then you are part of the problem." This is called "Kafka trapping", and its logically fallacious. Either give a real defence of your positions, or keep them to yourself.
    1
  601.  @travisjohnson7065  🧂
    1
  602. Do you not think it ought to depend on how the pregnancy came about?
    1
  603. Yes they are.
    1
  604. Dogs aren't carnivores.
    1
  605.  A Bt  Value isn't a fact. It's subjective. Throwing the word, "fact" around doesn't make what you say any stronger. It's just what blowhards do instead of actually having an argument.
    1
  606. Is this the kind of thing you say when you have a clue about defending your beliefs?
    1
  607. What traits have we evolved that suit us to a diet containing meat?
    1
  608. There is irony here but I don't think you're in on it.
    1
  609. It fails sometimes. The world ain't perfect.
    1
  610.  @ferbiously  It's not really. It's just the basic concept... Did you not know that?
    1
  611.  @ferbiously  Blah.
    1
  612.  @shawnboahene5231  No science considers anything a person. Personhood is a philosophical construct. Not a scientific one. Give it a minute before you make declarations about who's without a leg to stand on. You're a little confused to be doing that at the moment.
    1
  613.  @aidanaldrich7795  An embryo isn't a human.
    1
  614.  @aidanaldrich7795  An embryo is a fertilised egg. Biologists are actually pretty clear on this.
    1
  615.  @aidanaldrich7795  Zygotes develop into humans. They are not humans. It can't develop into something it already is.
    1
  616.  @aidanaldrich7795  You aren't following. A zygote is human. My hair is human (adjective). Neither is a human (noun).
    1
  617.  @aidanaldrich7795  "human in development" necessarily means it isn't a human currently. What exactly is it developing into if it's already a full-blown human?
    1
  618. What is "a vegetarian" doing in this comment? Vegetarianism has nothing to do with this.
    1
  619.  @KingPingviini  Would you not know that Harry Potter was fiction if you hadn't heard the author say so then...?
    1
  620.  @Turkey12457  Nobody invented sex with a purpose in mind. It's a thing people do. It's for what they do it for.
    1
  621. ok karen
    1
  622.  @TheGonzGirlz  I don't feel like explaining why your response did nothing to undo the point of the car analogy but it's literally not a strawman. That's not what that term means.
    1
  623.  @TheFaySchoolKids  Hey the only thing you want to sit on's dogs...
    1
  624.  @TheFaySchoolKids  Uh... No. You can make 'em out of two words, though. E.g. "on", "is". Literally what a contraction is, actually. Lmao... I thought you'd learnt your lesson. Will it take a few more times after this, too?
    1
  625.  @Allinguts  You should love it because it works. What do you think happens to an animal when it's turned into meat, dude?
    1
  626.  @stargazer1405  ... Yes? The Romans did indeed exist...
    1
  627.  @Haley_777.14  Viruses are a life. Should we not let people get rid of those from their bodies?
    1
  628. What even are the alternatives where you live?
    1
  629.  @foragedfinery  They don't think that just because they don't like it. That's just you trivializing the discussion.
    1
  630. You just said you don't understand it, so why are you also trying to explain to us what it's motivated by?
    1
  631.  @ks2294  That's true. Soy is one of the ten most grown crops on the planet. What you're describing is basically true of any major crop. The dirty little secret, though, is that livestock animals are fed on soy. You don't get to pin soy on vegans, dude. Your steaks are eating it. Vegans are a pretty small minority, so accusing us of eating enough soy to make it the fifth or sixth most grown crop on the planet is honestly a little dense.
    1
  632.  @ks2294  You just talked about vegans being "blind to the damage they cause". What were you talking about if not the deforestation you'd just brought up? Also, we'd need far fewer crops to feed the population if we weren't also having to feed another species that outnumbers humans several times over on top of it. If curbing the population is your answer, diet absolutely is the thing to focus on.
    1
  633. Ethics. We can grasp them. Wild animals can't.
    1
  634. ​ @nathancroyle3902  Instinct and ethics aren't the same. You're either eating dogs, cats, and humans, or you're just bullshitting with this "food is food" mantra.
    1
  635. Is that the best you can do?
    1
  636. If you want to get likes, why are you plagiarising twelve year old memes?
    1
  637. Why not?
    1
  638. How is it hypocrisy?
    1
  639.  @b.1162  Yes. Another person encroaching on my physical autonomy is bad. Their right to do this does not strengthen if we happen to be the same gender. This is an ill-conceived, blatantly sexist line of argumentation that needs to go in the bin.
    1
  640. About what?
    1
  641.  @grymbathym635  Who's proved them wrong about any of those?
    1
  642. No they aren't.
    1
  643.  @Tomb-Wraith  Why do you habitually disavow ethical veganism?
    1
  644.  @Tomb-Wraith  You've said more than once that you don't argue for or associate with ethical veganism. That's all I mean by, "disavow". I'm asking what the fallacy you see with it is.
    1
  645.  @Tomb-Wraith  I didn't say ethical vegans. I said ethical veganism. Are you saying morality is akin to emotion?
    1
  646.  @Tomb-Wraith  You've said that arguing for it is fallacious. Does that not amount to an issue with it?
    1
  647.  @Tomb-Wraith  Then what does having an issue with something mean to you? I wouldn't say that something is a fallacy whilst also saying that I find no issue with it. A fallacy is an issue. How opinions are changed is irrelevant.
    1
  648.  @Tomb-Wraith  That's illogical by definition.
    1
  649.  @Tomb-Wraith  No, it is. Something that's logical makes valid and sound sense. A fallacy is something that stops a point being valid. If you say fallacies aren't an issue, you're being illogical.
    1
  650.  @Tomb-Wraith  It doesn't matter if it's your only argument. If the argument works, then it's all you need.
    1
  651.  @Tomb-Wraith  That's not an argument. It's a statement. An argument is a logical A to B . You aren't just making a statement when you argue. You're explaining why a statement is true. An argument working doesn't mean it convincing someone. People can be convinced by bad arguments. An argument only works if it pans out logically.
    1
  652. Are there?
    1
  653.  @matt1325  It occupies physical space, so it quite obviously is a substance, and it's part of me, a member of a rational kind. Part of a part of something is not functionally distinct from part of something.
    1
  654. I really don't acknowledge any "name" I might be giving vegans. I don't speak for vegans. I speak for myself.
    1
  655.  @ILovePink-x1v  Read my comment again. I don't think you quite got the point of it, m'dude.
    1
  656.  @mariec3733  So men have equal say to other women, basically...
    1
  657.  @mariec3733  Neat.
    1
  658. Plants don't feel pain and they don't have a will to live. They aren't sentient. That's the difference between an animal and a plant. But, yeah, "animals are alive times2", or whatever the retarded caricature I was supposed to say was.
    1
  659.  @samantha5150  The nutrition scientists don't say that. What they say is that it's perfectly possible to be healthy on plant-based diets. But I'm not sure what your point is about animals eating each other.
    1
  660.  @halosainswavvy9202  Maybe you should stick to this civility thing. Instead of mouthing off about people and playing civil when they call you on it.
    1
  661.  @halosainswavvy9202  Read back to the first thing you said on this thread.
    1
  662.  @mike_404  Got anything better?
    1
  663. I don't think Allah did make animals. Not that many people do, really. You should get out more.
    1
  664.  @JayDeeDonuts  "why do you think Allah made animals if it was not for meat?" You don't remember saying this? It's still right there, if you need a reminder.
    1
  665. Says who?
    1
  666. *which
    1
  667.  @Supersigma2024  That's what you're going with, eh?
    1
  668. Eating animals harms animals. This is a discussion about whether or not abusing animals is justified. Why should there not be an argument about this?
    1
  669. So?
    1
  670.  @zachman5150  Calm down please.
    1
  671. Moral agency, dude. Lions have no concept of right and wrong. Humans do.
    1
  672.  @rhysmartin3074  That's called an Appeal to Nature Fallacy. Something being natural doesn't make it moral.
    1
  673. A vegan or meat eating bodybuilder?
    1
  674.  @timmy5387  That's not what a prejudice is you silly boy.
    1
  675.  @timmy5387  Dictionary: "Preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience." You: "Disagreeing with something." Do these mean the same thing or were you wrong?
    1
  676.  @timmy5387  Specifically pre-judging. Judging doesn't make something a prejudice. Not all judging is pre-judging. Get it?
    1
  677.  @timmy5387  All pre-judging is judging. Not all judging is pre-judging. You: "Disagreeing with something is prejudice. You are judging. JUDGING!" You were wrong.
    1
  678.  @timmy5387  It's not though. Disagreeing with something isn't a prejudice.
    1
  679.  @timmy5387  A prejudice doesn't mean a false disagreement either. You're still wrong.
    1
  680.  @timmy5387  It's not though.
    1
  681.  @timmy5387  It's not though. Prejudice is pre-judging. Not disagreeing with being gay.
    1
  682.  @timmy5387  Judging in advance of...?
    1
  683.  @timmy5387  You don't have to know the people to disagree with a characteristic. You just need to know the characteristic.
    1
  684.  @timmy5387  Yes, it's unreasonable. But, once again: Not what the word, "prejudice", means.
    1
  685.  @timmy5387  No. Like I disagree with food being red.
    1
  686.  @timmy5387  You lose.
    1
  687. ​ @tkjohnson6599  No, really.
    1
  688. Yes they are.
    1
  689. Which part?
    1
  690. Animals actually are sentient. There is in fact proof of that. You don't need to believe that animals have equal rights to humans to be a vegan. They don't, because rights are a legal construct. If they did have equal rights to us, we wouldn't need to argue against eating them because it'd be illegal. Even if this was true, veganism still wouldn't be a religion. A religion doesn't just mean a profound belief without proof. There is vegan hair dye, there is vegan makeup, vegans use them, and it doesn't cost money to "veganise" them. We need crops no matter what. Eating animals isn't an alternative to them. It means we'll need more of them, because our livestock animals will need to eat too in the meantime. Stop these armchair criticisms of veganism, because it's clearly not a topic you've heard enough about to be commenting on.
    1
  691.  @angryinternetperson6629  "Why should I behave any differently from a wild animal" is essentially what you're asking.
    1
  692.  @melinarose3645  You don't know that the stranger does have a family, though. That's why the person is a complete stranger in the hypothetical. It gets us thinking about the reasons we might feel like a person is more important than a fish, by making us decide the value of a fish's life compared to the life of a person we don't even know isn't a serial killer. It's meant to make us think about whether our standard is that people are inherently and immutably more valuable than animals, or if who they are and what they do decides how they compare.
    1
  693.  @dccrashergames6553  So the value of a life depends on how clearly it can express itself...
    1
  694.  @dccrashergames6553  That's called an appeal to tradition fallacy. How long people have thought something doesn't have any effect on whether or not it's true. In any case, it's wrong. There are people capable of communicating more clearly than others. Do you use this same logic to determine which humans are the most valuable?
    1
  695.  @dccrashergames6553  You apparently missed it, so I'll just post it again for you: That's called an appeal to tradition fallacy. How long people have thought something doesn't have any effect on whether or not it's true. In any case, it's wrong. There are people capable of communicating more clearly than others. Do you use this same logic to determine which humans are the most valuable?
    1
  696.  @dccrashergames6553  Did I say it made it wrong? I don't think it did. What I said is that it didn't make it right. It means nothing in either direction. It's irrelevant. Yet, you brought it up. Why are you bringing up irrelevant things? I've already pointed out a problem with your standard. You've ignored it, and come back with this silly caricature: "it's wrong to you because you don't want it to be right." Maybe It's you who should do some rereading?
    1
  697.  @lightyagami8645  That's just an emotion, though.
    1
  698.  @lightyagami8645  That's not what I said. Drop a retarded caricature and leave, if you like, though. It's a really classy exit.
    1
  699. I don't know that Buddhism's particularly bothered...
    1
  700. How would you talk to a person if you knew they abused animals?
    1
  701.  @janieswanson2549  They aren't, though.
    1
  702. Is it worth it?
    1
  703.  @zachman5150  Not all life is my life.
    1
  704.  @zachman5150  Yes. Some lives are valuable. Others aren't. You'll find that you already agree with this, if you actually spend a preliminary amount of thought on it.
    1
  705.  @zachman5150  It's apparently not clear, since you just got it very simply wrong. You're consulting your soundboard now, so it's fair to say you've run out of things to actually say.
    1
  706.  @zachman5150  Some lives are less valuable than others. Are you denying that you agree with this?
    1
  707.  @zachman5150  So you're claiming to value the life of a mushroom equally to your own...
    1
  708.  @zachman5150  You never actually did that "preliminary amount of thought" thing I suggested, did you?
    1
  709.  @zachman5150  Life isn't all that's relevant to the topic. Your choice of words was naive.
    1
  710.  @zachman5150  Well, it does now, because in furtherance of the pro-life stance you've claimed to value all of life. I'm taking you at your own words, and you're trying to make it my fault that you didn't choose them very carefully. Unless you actually do value all of life, including mushrooms, equally, you can consider your point refuted.
    1
  711.  @zachman5150  Weak.
    1
  712. Do you think a woman ought to be able to have an abortion for any reason?
    1
  713.  @timmy5387  It still wouldn't be a lie. It has in fact been suggested.
    1
  714.  @timmy5387  I didn't suggest it as if I wasn't him. I just suggested it.
    1
  715. There is no such thing as a "spiritual fact".
    1
  716. Where have you gotten the idea that hunting is for controlling disease?
    1
  717.  @zachman5150  "Woman" is a gender identity, not a sex.
    1
  718.  @zachman5150  Social roles. That'd be gender, Zach.
    1
  719.  @iahlenius  The consensus of the World Health Organisation is that it's a type 2 carcinogen, so, yes that is irrelevant. Meat is unhealthy whether you mean fast food by it or not.
    1
  720.  @hijeff1766  Have you not read it?
    1
  721.  @hijeff1766  Just that you seemed to be saying that those things aren't in the Bible.
    1
  722. Then get rid of Christianity. If it's literally opposed to things getting better it goes in the bin.
    1
  723. In that order?
    1
  724.  @matt1325  How?
    1
  725.  @zachman5150  Why? How you juggling that?
    1
  726.  @zachman5150  But not always.
    1
  727.  @zachman5150  So there's still a chance. And according to your logic the mother knew what she was risking. Why does she get to bail out?
    1
  728. ​ @zachman5150  Yes, generally. Not always. Are you just saying you're okay with terminating infants if the odds are against them surviving?
    1
  729.  @zachman5150  ok karen
    1
  730. The Bible isn't relevant.
    1
  731. @Hong Kong Your instructions aren't what're under discussion. It's irrelevant.
    1
  732. @Kuala Lampur No it isn't. It's not mine. It's yours.
    1
  733.  @janieswanson2549  "Vegan athletes aren't vegan."
    1
  734.  @janieswanson2549  Vegan athletes don't use animal products.
    1
  735.  @janieswanson2549  "Vegan" is the qualifier, which you've just defined as a person who doesn't use animal products. A vegan athlete doesn't use animal products.
    1
  736.  @janieswanson2549  I know they are. "Vegan" is the qualifier, is what I said. You just said that vegan athletes use animal products, and that, by your own description, is wrong.
    1
  737.  @janieswanson2549  No, it isn't. A qualifier is a word that modifies the meaning of another. Who's, "they"? The only people who've been mentioned are "vegan athletes", and your contention has been that these people use animal products. This is wrong.
    1
  738.  @janieswanson2549  I'm not using a noun to modify a noun, so I'm not sure what your point is, there. "Vegan" is also an adjective, although being a noun wouldn't stop it being a qualifier. Seeing as you clearly have access to a dictionary, finding out what the word, "qualifier" means shouldn't be difficult, so I won't squabble over it. You initially contended that vegan athletes use animal products. You've now shifted the goalposts to, "people claiming to be vegan athletes".
    1
  739.  @janieswanson2549  I'm afraid there were. "People claiming to be vegan athletes aren't vegan," is what you're saying now, but it's an adapted version of what you initially said, which was that vegan athletes use animal products. I said, "vegan athletes don't use animal products." You responded, "sure they do." The words are still there, very clearly typed out.
    1
  740.  @janieswanson2549  Vegan athletes don't use animal products. Vegan (noun) - a person who does not eat or use animal products.
    1
  741.  @janieswanson2549  So are they vegans or people?
    1
  742.  @janieswanson2549  So you actually aren't talking about vegan athletes.
    1
  743.  @janieswanson2549  So who are these vegan athletes you keep talking about?
    1
  744.  @janieswanson2549  Who are these vegan athletes you keep talking about, then?
    1
  745. You're weird.
    1
  746.  @earbunnyisgloomy9613  I don't argue with weirdos.
    1
  747.  @earbunnyisgloomy9613  You're weird.
    1
  748. What does the vegan have to do with this?
    1
  749.  @JinxPropaganda  In an ideal world it does. But we don't live in one of those. The people waving the banner hardest for it here kind of are just weird bigots with trans-hang-ups.
    1
  750. That's not really the point. I don't care how health-concerned other people are. I'm fine with other people doing what they like with their own bodies. That's their right. It's the animal abuse I'm not okay with.
    1
  751. Both sides feel like the other is crossing a moral line. Stuff can get heated.
    1
  752. What do they believe that isn't a reality?
    1
  753. Nah...
    1
  754. "Normal" isn't too specific.
    1
  755. Proof?
    1
  756.  @kva5751  "Why should we behave any differently from wild animals" is basically what you're asking.
    1
  757.  @moneysittintall3611  Yes, it is semantics because that's the argument the OC started. Abortion is not murder, so stop saying it is. You aren't contributing anything to the discussion by just chucking incendiary language at it.
    1
  758.  @moneysittintall3611  What do you mean "back to"...? When did we get off it? You're here deriding us for having the argument you started. You're weird...
    1
  759.  @moneysittintall3611  What do you eat?
    1
  760.  @InsubordinatePatriot  Who cares?
    1
  761.  @InsubordinatePatriot  lol why
    1
  762. ​ @InsubordinatePatriot  Who cares?
    1
  763.  @InsubordinatePatriot  Who cares?
    1
  764.  @earbunnyisgloomy9613  You're weird.
    1
  765.  @earbunnyisgloomy9613  You're weird.
    1
  766. He's a smug, self-important person. Why would I need to be PC to find that annoying?
    1
  767.  @adriel115_  You just said it takes believing a certain way and living your entire life according to certain rules. That ain't free.
    1
  768. Meat Eaters.
    1
  769.  @janieswanson2549  "Ad hominem" isn't just a highfalutin term for an insult, FYI.
    1
  770.  @graysonwing2946  B12 supplements are extremely high in B12, it turns out.
    1
  771.  @umersalman1  Then your health is fucked either way.
    1
  772.  @graysonwing2946  So then I include the supplement in my diet, so henceforth it's not missing anything. What's your point?
    1
  773.  @graysonwing2946  There is no "true B12". There is vitamin B12, and supplements contain it. Can you actually name something B12 derived from food does that supplemented B12 can't?
    1
  774. ​ @graysonwing2946  The cyanide produced in the conversion process isn't harmful even at high dosage. It's just excreted in urine. In any case, there are B12 supplements that contain methylcoalamin, so what's your point here, exactly?
    1
  775.  @graysonwing2946  Why not?
    1
  776.  @graysonwing2946  So... You take the supplement, and then your diet is no longer missing anything. What is the problem here?
    1
  777.  @graysonwing2946  A diet can include supplements. They aren't medicine. They're vitamins. So, again: What is the problem?
    1
  778.  @graysonwing2946  My diet isn't missing B12, BECAUSE I SUPPLEMENT. I am not missing any B12. I am consuming healthy quantities of it. My diet isn't deficient in anything.
    1
  779.  @graysonwing2946  Are you trying to say that vitamins obtained from supplements somehow don't count? What is this weird prejudice against supplements you have...?
    1
  780.  @graysonwing2946  Through supplementing, I'm consuming healthy quantities of B12. So either diet includes supplements, and my diet therefore isn't deficient in B12, or diet doesn't include supplements, and my diet is therefore deficient in something it doesn't need. Either way, this is not a problem.
    1
  781.  @catch5538  What do you mean you don't support them? Support them in what?
    1
  782. Humans have a sense of right and wrong, and habitually decide not to use it. If anything, that makes them worse.
    1
  783.  @zachman5150  Running from my question-- Again-- are we?
    1
  784. That's not a question.
    1
  785.  @stainSqaud  It's still her body that the fetus is living inside is the point. If she wants it out, it's a violation of her rights to her body to stop her.
    1
  786. That's wrong.
    1
  787. @Bannjerplays Sentience. Will to live. Capacity for suffering. Do you even understand what you're arguing against?
    1
  788. Arguing and criticising aren't bad things. We learn from them, and our beliefs get smarter from them.
    1
  789.  @msharp6887  An egg is not alive in any meaningful way at the moment of fertilisation. This actually is objective. Life has criteria that an egg just plainly doesn't meet. If you want to talk objectivities, you are just plain-and-simple wrong.
    1
  790.  @msharp6887  Sorry, dude. Find yourself a scientific definition of "life". You will find yourself reading about a set of characteristics that a fertilised egg does not have. I actually don't mind the bit of smug nastiness at the end there because all it does is show that what I said has landed.
    1
  791.  @msharp6887  Have you found yourself that definition yet, speaking of a little research?
    1
  792.  @msharp6887  "democrat indoctrination..." Are you actually having this discussion or do you just have an axe to grind? In the interest of not wasting time, put your ego aside and actually revisit the point I made. A zygote is in no way meaningfully alive at the literal second of conception. A person is a thing that develops and takes time to. This is one of the many ways in which human beings are distinct from instant mashed potatoes. If you through sheer pedantics argue that it's technically alive then it's alive like a mushroom is alive. I don't know what you think you're contributing to a discussion about abortion by pointing that out.
    1
  793.  @msharp6887  "... meaningfully alive..." The fact that this is how pedantic you have to get to argue that it's even technically alive outs this as a useless point. "If you through sheer pedantics argue that it's technically alive then it's alive like a mushroom is alive. I don't know what you think you're contributing to a discussion about abortion by pointing that out." I just granted you that it was alive so that you can get off semantics and argue about the actual subject, but you haven't taken any notice. Are you sure you're reading through what I'm saying?
    1
  794.  @msharp6887  "Meaningful" as in relevant. That isn't subjective. It's a matter of logic.
    1
  795.  @msharp6887  So have I addressed neither point or have I agreed to one of them? "...and when do human rights apply to that life." Read back through the discussion. This is the first time you've mentioned this at all. The only objective approach you could take to this question would be a legal one, and the fact is that humans do not have any rights at the embryonic stage that assures against them being aborted. Whether an embryo has traits of a living human being sufficient to qualify it for ethical consideration is a worthwhile point that takes us into substantive discussion of the topic. Whether it qualifies for a purely technical definition of "life" that plants and fungi also do is not.
    1
  796.  @msharp6887  I don't think the law decides whether a person is a person, no. That's quite a confused thing to ask me after citing a LEGAL DEFINITION to argue that a zygote is. What the law does decide is what rights you have, because rights are a legal construct. An inalienable right is a nonsensical concept. If the society you're a part of does not afford you the right to something, then it's just not a right you have. It may be one you think you ought to have, and in most decent societies you'd be free to argue that you should, but the fact is that at present you don't. There's no getting away from this unless what you're talking about are moral rather than legal rights, which aren't so easy to argue objectively about.
    1
  797.  @msharp6887  Yes it does. A right is an entitlement that society acknowledges and that law enforces. If the society you live as a part of does not acknowledge your right to something, how does it manifest beyond you just saying you have it?
    1
  798.  @msharp6887  Rights aren't innate. They don't occur naturally. You don't have rights without the community affording them to you. Societies can in fact take them away. The fact that you just tried to argue against this by appealing to a broader society gets me thinking you know that this is true.
    1
  799.  @msharp6887  So in what way does a person have a right to something if their society doesn't acknowledge that they do?
    1
  800. ​ @msharp6887  Even though you've been denied it by every authoritative body with any power over you? What would alienating a right look like if that doesn't cut it?
    1
  801.  @msharp6887  Oppressed people fight oppression because nobody wants to be oppressed. What to do with rights is that?
    1
  802.  @msharp6887  They're fighting for rights... Because they don't have them. People don't fight for something if they already have it.
    1
  803.  @msharp6887  Nobody wants to be oppressed. But a want isn't a right.
    1
  804.  @msharp6887  Yes, it is. Oppression is by definition unjust or cruel. A key feature of it is that it's unwanted. People fight things they think are unjust. That's not a matter of the rights they have.
    1
  805. So?
    1
  806.  @dick1967  So?
    1
  807.  @aidanaldrich7795  A fetus isn't necessarily a human, though.
    1
  808.  @aidanaldrich7795  Very nice. A zygote is definitely not a human, though. Come on.
    1
  809.  @aidanaldrich7795  No. An egg is not an organism.
    1
  810.  @aidanaldrich7795  Sperm fertilise eggs. A zygote is a fertilised egg. Zygotes develop into humans. They are not humans.
    1
  811.  @aidanaldrich7795  That's just your opinion. As for mine, I don't know that there is an exact point when a non-human egg becomes a human being. The development of a human I tend more to view as a process.
    1
  812.  @aidanaldrich7795  Ah - a zygote is alive and human. That's not quite the same claim as "a zygote is a human." A consensus isn't a fact btw. A consensus is agreement among experts in a particular field, which is still opinion. The plural of opinion is not "fact".
    1
  813.  @aidanaldrich7795  "Gross." No.
    1
  814.  @zachman5150  Like Budweiser.
    1
  815. So are hippopotamuses carnivores?
    1
  816.  @ghostofmisao.  They can't.
    1
  817. You can though.
    1
  818. @Biggus Dickus Raight choo are, sun!
    1
  819. Yeah, yeah...
    1
  820. Sorry you hate us. We were just trying to be cool like you...
    1
  821. ​ @forbsey0785  What I'm actually doing is making fun of your moronic caricature with a deliberately facetious response. K?
    1
  822. Is it right that people get to refuse to donate blood when there are people who are going to die without it, though?
    1
  823. Who said they were the same?
    1
  824.  @luci_ix5181  When did they say that humans and animals are the same?
    1
  825.  @luci_ix5181  I haven't heard them say that humans and animals are the same. Can you give the exact timestamp for this, please?
    1
  826.  @luci_ix5181  That isn't what he said.
    1
  827.  @luci_ix5181  "Humans are animals" doesn't mean the same thing as "humans are the same as any other animal."
    1
  828.  @luci_ix5181  Yes it does. You've just pointed out a difference.
    1
  829.  @luci_ix5181  You literally just pointed out the difference.
    1
  830.  @luci_ix5181  That's actually exactly what it means. "Different" and "the same" are literal opposites.
    1
  831.  @luci_ix5181  They're not the same as other animals.
    1
  832.  @luci_ix5181  Being all animals doesn't make us all the same.
    1
  833.  @luci_ix5181  No different.
    1
  834.  @luci_ix5181  What was your point, then?
    1
  835.  @luci_ix5181  We should model our behaviour on what wild animals do. Is that what you're saying?
    1
  836. I'm a vegan because I think it's bad to harm animals. I don't think hurting others for no good reason is right, so I don't do it. Am I putting myself on a pedestal by not doing things that I think are wrong?
    1
  837.  XROM  There is no vitamin called "v12".
    1
  838.  XROM  In that case, I don't. I supplement it.
    1
  839. No, it does. The alternative to abortion rights is involuntary childbearing, which definitely does qualify as slavery.
    1
  840. You're arguing that cannibalism is in your nature. Cool.
    1
  841. Some kids are pricks...
    1
  842.  @oliverstewart2056  Depends, really.
    1
  843.  @oliverstewart2056  Nah.
    1
  844. Nah, not really. What you're doing is making assumptions about an entire group from your personal experiences with members. I could be thinking literally all meat eaters are obese and diabetic if I did that.
    1
  845. Nah...
    1
  846. Freedom to violate the well being of others is not a freedom that should be respected.
    1
  847. Duh...
    1
  848. How do you figure?
    1
  849. Nah, it kind of is.
    1
  850. Why?
    1
  851.  @b.queens9863  Why should pregnancy and giving birth be the consequence of sex?
    1
  852.  @b.queens9863  I don't particularly want there to be consequences for having sex. I don't think having sex is wrong.
    1
  853. ​ @b.queens9863  They do. Needing an abortion.
    1
  854. No food chain that has humans at the top is a reflection of the natural order. The only food chain that puts humans at the top is the one humans have contrived.
    1
  855. I'm not hard pressed to think of a predator from the African Savannah, or an Asian jungle that could kill a human being. The reason this happens rarely is because of our ability to circumvent the dangers of the natural world. We've placed ourselves above the naturally prescribed food chain, and replaced it with one that benefits us. The food chain with humans at the top reflects human behaviour. Not the natural order.
    1
  856.  @ktisab8255  You don't see how being at the top of the food chain benefits us... I'm going to pay you the complement of assuming you don't actually believe what you've said.
    1
  857.  @ktisab8255  I'm not talking about the diagram of the food chain. I'm talking about what it describes.
    1
  858.  @cerenaltntas8425  How does animals doing it make it okay, though? Can you seriously not think of anything that animals do in the wild that people shouldn't?
    1
  859.  @cerenaltntas8425  <sigh...>
    1
  860.  @abby3750  A person being pro-choice doesn't mean they'd be for an abortion in any given case of pregnancy. "Pro-abortion" implies that what they think is that women should have abortions, and they don't. They just want the choice to be there. People generally don't like it because it just doesn't really make sense as a way of describing their opinion.
    1
  861.  @matt1325  What obligates "fixing" it is where the disagreement lies.
    1
  862.  @matt1325  Are people obligated to diseases if they risk contracting them?
    1
  863. ​ @matt1325  I asked if people were obligated to diseases. Not if diseases were obligated to people. Are people obligated to serve the needs of disease-causing viruses they contract?
    1
  864.  @matt1325  That assumes people aren't obligated to serve the needs of disease-causing viruses they contract which is the exact thing your trying to prove.
    1
  865.  @matt1325  "People aren't obligated to diseases because no."
    1
  866.  @JoeyB0b  Where have the generalizations about vegans come from now...?
    1
  867.  @JoeyB0b  That is not a sound generalization.
    1
  868.  @JoeyB0b  No it's not.
    1
  869.  @JoeyB0b  No, it's not.
    1
  870. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, you're done.
    1
  871. Tralse.
    1
  872.  @florencehaokip5094  You just tried to justify animal abuse and asked to have your views respected... Sorry. Not gonna fly.
    1
  873.  @SKZ10909  Humans are multicellular organisms that survive by ingesting organic matter. Things like this are called "animals". Making life choices and inventing things have nothing to do with whether something is an animal. You're pretty confused.
    1
  874.  @zachman5150  Thanks for sharing, didn't ask.
    1
  875.  @zachman5150  👋
    1
  876. They literally are, though.
    1
  877. So why are nutrition scientists calling vegan diets "nutritionally adequate"?
    1
  878.  @TiSa1985  So your personal anecdotes, have made you more knowledgeable than the scientists who study the subject professionally. Is this what you're saying?
    1
  879. You think vegans are suggesting you eat animals alive, instead?
    1
  880. ... but are now.
    1
  881. Which part of that are you calling cognitive dissonance?
    1
  882.  @masteroftheunseen7941  Whether it's alive is a different question from whether it's a "someone", though.
    1
  883.  @zachman5150  Yeah, it's actually really obvious, isn't it?
    1
  884.  @Boss-dj6ix  What would constitute undeniable proof?
    1
  885. I don't support businesses that breed things only to slaughter them. That isn't right.
    1
  886.  @Keenemovie  No. Killing something with a good life is still wrong.
    1
  887. Why is it a human?
    1
  888. @Humanity Galatica What's an abortionist?
    1
  889. I have read the Bible, and I'm an atheist now. I'm not really on board with the idea that Jesus ought to be followed. Not everything he said is good or true...
    1
  890. Appeal to Nature Fallacy. Learn how logic works.
    1
  891.  @TheLegendOfRandy  The inclusion of "legally" is what fucks that argument.
    1
  892.  @nickstojic6995  That's a pretty arbitrary standard...
    1
  893.  @nickstojic6995  Why? What does sperm not have that a zygote does?
    1
  894.  @nickstojic6995  It does, though. A sperm given an egg has that capacity.
    1
  895.  @nickstojic6995  So it does.
    1
  896. No there isn't only one question that matters. This is not a simple issue. Stop trying to pass it off as one.
    1
  897.  @rigobatiancila5824  Why have you brought up rape? I didn't mention it, and it has nothing to do with anything you mentioned either. Whether a fetus is a human or not is not the only issue, if it's even an issue at all. This is what I said. Where in this did you hear the word, "rape"...?
    1
  898.  @rigobatiancila5824  Whether or not it being alive gives it the right to live in someone else's body? In what other circumstances would you be okay with that? This is what you should have started by asking me. Not by responding to something I didn't say just because you'd heard other people say it.
    1
  899.  @rigobatiancila5824  You either want to discuss the topic or you don't, dude. Saying there's no point in arguing because we have different opinions defeats any purpose of you saying anything to begin with.
    1
  900. That could be worked around in the long term. Trans people are starting their transitions younger. It's becoming more and more often the case that trans women haven't undergone male puberty at all.
    1
  901. Why?
    1
  902. Do you disagree with her that that person should have been denied an abortion or do you just think she was being mean?
    1
  903.  @chrissy6693  "Carbs are healthier than protein" isn't really what he said, now, is it?
    1
  904.  @zachman5150  So is trans a psych issue or is it not a thing at all?
    1
  905.  @zachman5150  So what is it?
    1
  906. He wasn't right. "You're an agnostic, not an atheist" is what he said.
    1
  907.  @herreramissions6283  Unborn children do have rights equal to born ones, though.
    1
  908. ​ @travisjohnson7065  If you deny an organ to a person who will die without it, you are in effect killing them. The exact same thing happens with abortion. Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. Not a fetus. The fetus dies because it can't survive without the pregnancy in tact. The analogy stands because what's happening in both cases is a person dying because they did not have the right to live off another person's body. I don't know what you think your countering by calling death by organ denial "natural" or "not basic". Does your right to life only apply so long as it only takes the basics to uphold?
    1
  909. Why?
    1
  910.  @KatholischerGottesdiener  ... Yep.
    1
  911.  @KatholischerGottesdiener  Stoning people to death is bad.
    1
  912.  @KatholischerGottesdiener  Yes. Stoning people is still messed up if it's only certain people doing it.
    1
  913.  @KatholischerGottesdiener  Very compelling...
    1
  914.  @sarahhoang5668  You clearly don't care about this subject. Why are you here?
    1
  915. You have that backwards, dude. We make things illegal because they're wrong. We don't illegalise random things which then become wrong because we've illegalised them.
    1
  916.  @sarahhoang5668  "It is what it is, get over it" isn't a sentiment from a person who cares about the discussion topic. This is just a nothing-comment designed to shut down conversation. If you aren't interested in having it, stop wasting time.
    1
  917. Yeah, it pretty much is...
    1
  918.  baby shark  Building your morals on antiquated rubbish from the bronze age isn't really consistent with anything I'd call "progress-mindedness".
    1
  919.  baby shark  You just either have to be a massive hypocrite or have your claim to be a Christian seriously questionable.
    1
  920.  @TheFaySchoolKids  Christianity is probably not the right room to be in then.
    1
  921.  baby shark  Pigeonholing can be what it wants. Don't pigeonhole pigeonholing.
    1
  922.  @TheFaySchoolKids  It just might be the wrong one. I don't mean to stop you, or anything. I'm just commenting.
    1
  923.  @TheFaySchoolKids  No it isn't. If you think the Bible is rubbish Christianity is not for you.
    1
  924. It's okay. We probably hate you too.
    1
  925.  @janieswanson2549  There are only vegans in these comments.
    1
  926.  @janieswanson2549  😢
    1
  927.  @shreyassundaresan4719  You might be mistaking a juvenile sexual hang-up for a coherent set of values.
    1
  928.  @chanlersimmons7711  That's so transparent that even you probably aren't buying it.
    1
  929.  @chanlersimmons7711  I'm paying you a compliment by not believing you.
    1
  930.  @chanlersimmons7711  Sorry, dude, but, no. Your comment does nothing vaguely similar to stand...
    1
  931.  @chanlersimmons7711  You still said it, but that's not what it means for a statement to stand.
    1
  932. I don't agree that they're not living and I'm not pro-life, so that's not true. There are a few more ways to approach this than seem to have occurred to you.
    1
  933.  @zachman5150  Woman is an identity, so they've managed to get a little further than you.
    1
  934.  @jayla808  What I just said wasn't pro-unprotected sex. I'm pointing out that condoms don't eliminate the need for abortions.
    1
  935.  @TheLegendOfRandy  How is that an appeal to nature fallacy?
    1
  936. Why?
    1
  937.  @satsat247  I'm asking why he believes that.
    1
  938.  @zachman5150  None of that was a relevant response to anything I just said. If anything it proved the point of it.
    1
  939.  @zachman5150  That's not an argument. It's a talking point. You wander through the comment section mindlessly repeating it. If you aren't a spam bot you may as well be. You don't do anything that one couldn't.
    1
  940.  @zachman5150  Pathetic.
    1
  941.  @kingorangutan3348  There's nothing really stopping you getting protein, calcium, iron or B12 on a vegan diet. You're kind of just making that up.
    1
  942.  @kingorangutan3348  You don't miss nutrients by eating just plants, though.
    1
  943.  @issuesthatmatter2825  tl;dr: You made an argument from emotion that worked on some college kids.
    1
  944.  @escandon785  So?
    1
  945.  @escandon785  From conception doesn't either.
    1
  946.  Anix Encore  It's not.
    1
  947.  Anix Encore  It's not.
    1
  948.  Anix Encore  It's not.
    1
  949.  @JohnSmith-px1fm  I don't see how that isn't a non-sequitur.
    1
  950.  @JohnSmith-px1fm  It wasn't me who brought up scientists, so I don't know why you're directing this at me.
    1
  951.  @JohnSmith-px1fm  Yes...
    1
  952.  @JohnSmith-px1fm  Read what the quote is in response to.
    1
  953.  @JohnSmith-px1fm  Read what the quote is in response to.
    1
  954.  @JohnSmith-px1fm  You have just quoted something I said. I am telling you to read what I said it in response to.
    1
  955. He went in to a conversation with atheists not knowing what an atheist means. Zealous ignorance isn't wisdom.
    1
  956. ... "Wtf" what?
    1
  957.  @joongreenbriar6049  He's not a colonizer, though. He's native.
    1
  958.  @joongreenbriar6049  Why can't he use it, though?
    1
  959.  @joongreenbriar6049  There are literally natives who prefer to be called redskins... The language a person uses to describe their heritage is their business.
    1
  960.  @thequackattack7704  Christianity just is homophobic, bro...
    1
  961.  @thequackattack7704  Give me a break...
    1
  962. Respect is earned, dude. You don't get it just by incessantly demanding it.
    1
  963.  @TheFaySchoolKids  You all seem to come one by one.
    1
  964.  @TheFaySchoolKids  No deriding Mr. Stilton for Bulgarians he may spend his nights off with. I consider this remark and ones like it homophobic in nature.
    1
  965.  @TheFaySchoolKids  You know a point has landed when the recipient responds by going into shitpost mode...
    1
  966.  @TheFaySchoolKids  No, I won't spare you. You're being argued with. Cope with it. So far what you've done is fail at something as cheap as a language/grammar correction and call me a twelve-year-old. Whether you're a troll or genuine, you really ought to shape up...
    1
  967.  @TheFaySchoolKids  You aren't the boss of him.
    1
  968.  @TheFaySchoolKids  ... with homophobic slurs. I don't support those even when they're directed at a homophobe. That's what it's like not being a hypocrite.
    1
  969.  @cloroxistoxic2077  You wouldn't have had a car accident if you hadn't driven...
    1
  970.  @zachman5150  - by driving.
    1
  971.  @ironcross1252  Denying it doesn't really do any good, dude. The word, "animal" means something, and it covers humans. There's no argument about this. This is just what the word means. It's plain as day.
    1
  972.  @ironcross1252  Scripture is irrelevant. This is just a matter of how we use language. Humans are multi-cellular beings that eat food and have sense and nervous organs. Things like this are called "animals".
    1
  973.  @ironcross1252  Words do have meaning, actually, and it seems to be you rather than me who is struggling to accept this. The word, "animal" has a meaning, and the meaning describes humans. You, nonetheless, are denying that the word is applicable to humans. I don't know why you've brought up science textbooks. The only book I've cited is the dictionary... Humans are animals. This does not mean the same thing as humans are no different from any other animal. It's very bizarre that the weird diatribe you just went on was provoked simply by me telling you the meaning of a word.
    1
  974. ​ @ironcross1252  "Its good to know thats all you think of humans as a “ pile of organs, wrapped in skin who eat and sense things” is this what you write on birthday cards and how you treat people and live??" Listen to the way you've been speaking to people, and wonder if it might actually be you whose arrogance is getting out of hand. Anyway, I'm quite confident that you don't understand my position at all, because what you've just said back to me is, at best, a very silly caricature of it. Humans are animals. Every animal is unique, and different from all others. This doesn't stop them being animals.
    1
  975.  @GamerGamerGamer77777  We are, dude. I really am sorry that you don't like it, but we are.
    1
  976.  @GamerGamerGamer77777  Humans are animals. You're welcome to leave if that bothers you.
    1
  977. Because you can be pro-choice and anti-abortion. Abortion isn't what the argument is about. It's whether or not to let people decide on it for themselves.
    1
  978.  @gemini4958  Why not?
    1
  979.  @zachman5150  How does that mean there's no such thing as racism?
    1
  980.  @zachman5150  I didn't say race was fluid. I said people identify as the race they feel they are.
    1
  981.  @orang9134  Probably.
    1
  982.  @zachman5150  Sometimes I think you just want someone to talk to.
    1
  983.  @zachman5150  I engage with what people actually say, though. You just keep confronting me on things you have absolutely nothing to say in response to. I have to wonder what could possibly be in it for you to spend this much time repeating the same four or five comments at me. The most sensible explanation is becoming - you're just lonely.
    1
  984. They fail sometimes. The world ain't perfect.
    1
  985. "pussys".
    1
  986. Eh... 𝘈𝘯𝘢𝘵𝘰𝘮𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭. "Biological" would cover their hormones, and they have men's. Not that I see what your point is in pointing out that one side of the debate has ovaries.
    1
  987. There are billions of livestock animals on the planet. Chickens alone outnumber humans. The animal agriculture industry has bred them into these insane numbers because they make money off them. There's consumer demand for their meat. Farm animals are already overpopulated, and it's because people are eating them. You like the taste. That's the real reason you won't give up meat. Be honest about it. Don't try to legitimise what you're doing by bullshitting about things like "overpopulation".
    1
  988. You're weird.
    1
  989.  @robgarry7858  Why is God okay with people causing death?
    1
  990. What? No it doesn't...
    1
  991. What would you call it? It most likely didn't have a gender.
    1
  992.  @churchroadrecordsreviewsan231  Yeah, we're all made of cells. Not all of us are literally single cells... A single cell ain't a baby.
    1
  993. You've judged them to be in error, so you are judging them.
    1
  994.  @romanwagner8709  Yes, that very plainly is how it works. If you think they're sinners, you've judged them sinners.
    1
  995.  @romanwagner8709  So you judged everyone sinners because you judged the Bible to be correct.
    1
  996. This is called an Appeal to Nature Fallacy. You can look it up in your own time.
    1
  997.  @candyadams-frazier1759  Women do know that pregnancy is a possible result from sex. If it arises, many will have to undergo an abortion. That is accountability.
    1
  998.  @VRM7789  ... and what happens?
    1
  999.  @stfuheem  How do you think you'd behave in a conversation with people you knew were child abusers?
    1
  1000. Nah...
    1
  1001. @Pastafarian You are factually wrong.
    1
  1002. @Pastafarian The Bible has no authority over what the word, "church" or any other means. The English language is used completely independently of it. It's very, very gauche that you keep feeling the need to end your comments with such grandiose pronouncements given that what you're in fact arguing about is something as plain, straightforward and trivial as the meaning of a word. "Try-hard" is the expression you're bringing to mind.
    1
  1003. We should run our lives based on what animals do, is what you're saying.
    1
  1004.  @jamiegilliam3658  What makes you think you know what the Bible says better than any other denomination?
    1
  1005.  @jamiegilliam3658  That's still just your interpretation of the Bible, and yours isn't the only one. People disagree with you about what the Bible says. What makes you think you know what God says any better than they do?
    1
  1006.  @jamiegilliam3658  To find out what is and isn't, all you have is your interpretation. You are trying to process and understand what the Bible says. "Interpretation" is the word for this. You have an interpretation, and other people have others. I am asking why you think yours should be granted greater credence than anyone else's, and you keep coming back with what basically amounts to, "mine is right". Everyone thinks their own interpretation is the right one. That hardly sets you apart.
    1
  1007.  @jamiegilliam3658  They can't all be right. What makes you think yours is the one that is, is what you are being asked.
    1
  1008.  @jamiegilliam3658  That's what you say it says. Others say differently.
    1
  1009. Why not?
    1
  1010. Why? What did he actually do? Evil isn't something you just are.
    1
  1011.  @Pelmite  Can you explain why lions don't fit the criteria for a natural predator, please?
    1
  1012.  @Pelmite  That isn't what "natural predator" means. A lion wouldn't be using anything as a food source if you started starving it to death. But this wouldn't stop it having natural prey. The term, "natural predator" describes what an animal has evolved to do. Not its circumstances.
    1
  1013.  @matt1325  That's an Appeal to Nature Fallacy.
    1
  1014.  @matt1325  I know that's what you said, and it's a non-sequitur because how surprised we ought to be by it is not what's under discussion, and it's completely irrelevant to what actually is.
    1
  1015.  @matt1325  We're discussing the ethics surrounding overriding a person's bodily autonomy. If your rationale for why forced pregnancy is ethical while forced organ donation isn't is that pregnancy is a "natural" or "ordinary" use of another person's body, you are in fact committing an Appeal to Nature Fallacy.
    1
  1016.  @matt1325  "Naturally", "meant to", "designed to", are all just different choices of words that get you back to the same fallacy. You aren't making a point just by repeating that they're different. Actually say how and make an argument for it. If you were saying pregnancy is different from organ donation in that pregnancy is natural and therefore ethical to force on people, you were committing a fallacy. You've essentially left yourself a choice of having committed a fallacy or just having said something irrelevant...
    1
  1017.  @matt1325  Yes, I'm focusing on one argument you made so that you can't get out of admitting it doesn't work by moving to a different one. Whether a pregnancy is extraordinary or not has no place in a discussion about abortion because an appeal to the ordinary is essentially the same fallacy, while it not being "heroic" is a non-sequitur because that's purely a matter of perspective. For you to flatly declare that childbearing is not heroic as if expecting no challenge to it honestly leads me to wonder if you can have ever witnessed it. Pregnancy is quite a physically taxing thing. There absolutely are people who view it as heroic.
    1
  1018.  @matt1325  Yes, you've made it clear that that is not your position. I don't seem to have managed to persuade you to share what IS your position. The furthest into detail you've gone is "organ donation is extraordinary and heroic", and I don't see that that amounts to a point.
    1
  1019.  @matt1325  I want to know what position you hold that "organ donation is extraordinary and heroic" is a point in favour of. I'd like you to take what you're saying, and connect it to an actual position. Why is this so complicated?
    1
  1020.  @zachman5150  Out of honest curiosity; are you on the autism spectrum at all?
    1
  1021. Why?
    1
  1022.  @ifiwsaflowridbearose  So why is the largest organisation of nutrition scientists on the planet saying that vegan diets are nutritionally adequate? What do you know that they don't?
    1
  1023. I read the ingredients of a product before I eat it. By what standard does this qualify as "obsessing"?
    1
  1024.  @TheLegendOfRandy  Why doesn't that bother you, though?
    1
  1025.  @TheLegendOfRandy  Not even if you have something in your body that someone else will die without?
    1
  1026.  @TheLegendOfRandy  I haven't donated any blood or organs. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite. Who knows? Would you donate one drop of blood if it could cure cancer, though? And would you say a person whose blood could do that ought to be obligated to?
    1
  1027. So why do we keep breeding more of them to eat?
    1
  1028. Doesn't a sandwich have to be something between two pieces of bread?
    1
  1029.  @matt1325  Virgins only and that 1-5 is too high a body count is what the comment you just agreed with said.
    1
  1030.  @allegravet  Ending a life? Sometimes it's voluntary euthanasia. Sometimes it's having a meal. Sometimes it's picking fruit. Sometimes it's taking an antibiotic. Look I understand why this sits uncomfortabley with people but I wish you could hear how screamingly silly you sound when you try to argue this by stripping things of anything that even looks like context... There are nigh endless factors that affect the ethical implications of ending a life. In this case, we're talking about whether to let a person live by using someone else's body; and no, we don't let people in any other stage of development do this.
    1
  1031. That's called closed-mindedness. It isn't a virtue.
    1
  1032. Not eating two tubs of ice cream a day can be really bad.
    1
  1033.  @zachman5150  We're discussing trans rights. It's directly relevant.
    1
  1034. Why are you saying "balanced diet" as if it means something that includes meat?
    1
  1035.  @robbieGftw  That was a question...
    1
  1036. Troll.
    1
  1037.  @anubisgod23  Eh... No. Troll. You just got called on what you said by a fairly reasonable fella, and you handled it like a confused kid. Troll.
    1
  1038.  @anubisgod23  "Just facts, brah. U can't handle facts, brah." Yeah, you're a troll to the back teeth...
    1
  1039.  @anubisgod23  "if you"... A swing and a miss.
    1
  1040.  @andyscott15  What problem at hand? That they were going to harm the people? Because that, as I've just said, is easy to solve without enslaving anyone. Why do you keep saying it was "temporary" as if that makes it right? Harming people isn't just okay as long as you stop eventually.
    1
  1041.  @andyscott15  Deuteronomy does not say God is against slavery. It just says that if your slave is another Hebrew, you can only enslave them for six years, and even that doesn't hold up, because it also gives you a loophole that lets you keep them forever. This rule is specifically for other Hebrews. The verse I gave you says you also get to buy slaves from other nations. "The heathen who surround you" in some translations, and that rule doesn't apply to them.
    1
  1042.  @andyscott15  Did you not read what I just asked? Why do you keep saying it was "temporary" as if that makes it right? Don't just keep repeating it to me as if I've ignored it. I asked a follow-up question. Answer.
    1
  1043.  @andyscott15  YOU are judging it. You're here trying to tell me it was justified. Slavery is an evil thing, so if you want to try making excuses for it, you'd better have some good ones. Just telling me not to judge doesn't cut it. I'm a person with a moral compass, so I definitely will judge slavery.
    1
  1044.  @andyscott15  I'm sorry to have to spell this out, but enslaving a person does involve judging them, and you're defending it.
    1
  1045. Obviously we can. They're talking about whether we should.
    1
  1046.  @guy16year4month6  Tf are you on about...?
    1
  1047.  @advancedorange4818  In a utilitarian world, though, that would mean we are perfectly justified in not exercising moral agency with regards to them.
    1
  1048.  @advancedorange4818  But if your view of morality is utilitarian it'd hinge on recipricality. What you owe others would be decided by what they could do for others in return. Treating a moral non-agent with moral considerations is effectively a cost with no returns.
    1
  1049. Why should I, though?
    1
  1050.  @Tomb-Wraith  He's not saying they're related. He's pointing out something he sees as a contradiction.
    1
  1051.  @Latitude_  What exactly is the point of a comment that ends with "argument closed"?
    1
  1052. Those are animals.
    1
  1053. Dogs aren't carnivores. They wouldn't be able to survive on vegan diets if they were, and they can. Also, naturally, dogs are our enemies. Wolves and humans don't get along very well. We have fixed this with selective breeding, which isn't natural. It's something that allows us to improve nature. You're a very weirdly confused kid.
    1
  1054.  @tusk3260  No. I meant to say dogs aren't carnivores. "Carnivore" doesn't mean an animal that eats meat. A carnivore is an animal that survives on meat.
    1
  1055.  @tusk3260  No they aren't the same. Surviving on meat means not being able to live without it. A carnivore is an animal that needs meat to survive. Dogs don't.
    1
  1056.  @Chefshitpiece  I didn't though.
    1
  1057.  @ResetYourKid  Well at least you're not closed-minded...
    1
  1058. @James A Giuffre It was, so care to share your math?
    1
  1059.  @TheFaySchoolKids  Derp.
    1
  1060. Doesn't mean what?
    1
  1061. I'm not supportive of everyone's choice. Does that make me a rude vegan?
    1
  1062. You shouldn't feel like that for the same reason you shouldn't feel jealous for him seeing his friends or family. It's not a matter of personal inadequacy that you're not the only person in his life.
    1
  1063. anna blue So you're saying you're the only person he has in his life.
    1
  1064. anna blue If he has a family he spends time with then my point stands.
    1
  1065.  @CandyWorld30  That was more a literary use of the word, "parasite". She was quite clearly not arguing that a fetus is a separate species. "Parasite" has uses other than scientific. The fetus we're discussing is living off another person's body against their consent. That's the key characteristic. You have devolved the conversation into something quite obtuse and pedantic with that...
    1
  1066. Whether it's a life or not doesn't really matter much.
    1
  1067.  @braynjohnson  You dodged his question again. You aren't fooling anyone. Does intelligence matter or not? Is human intelligence the basis for your entire argument, or is intelligence not so easily measured? It's quite important for your argument that you make up your mind about that.
    1
  1068.  @dumbspud9890  Why does it matter whether or not it's a person?
    1
  1069.  @ryanlee5294  Any faith is too much faith. It's not a path to truth.
    1
  1070.  @ryanlee5294  It is. That's the problem. Faith is not a pathway to truth.
    1
  1071. Not all animals eat other animals.
    1
  1072. Pardon me, sir, but, I'm VeGaN, iAm BeTeR tHaN yOu. Just felt that ought to be understood.
    1
  1073. You're weird.
    1
  1074. ... Cannibals?
    1
  1075. You're going against nature in making this comment.
    1
  1076.  @CiciWilson-kj5mu  She.
    1
  1077. A person who made the choice to have one and would again, fair enough. But someone who had an abortion and is against it in retrospect is just a person who's changed their mind. That's allowed.
    1
  1078.  @aidanaldrich7795  Animals?
    1
  1079.  @aidanaldrich7795  So animals.
    1
  1080.  @aidanaldrich7795  No, worms do not have brains and are almost certainly not sentient. You'd exclude a lot of humans from having rights if sapience was your standard. Lol.
    1
  1081.  @turtelbro1123  Duh.
    1
  1082. It's not.
    1
  1083. That's neat, but don't worry. You'll grow out of it eventually.
    1
  1084.  @sciencefirst7032  So are hippopotamuses carnivores?
    1
  1085.  @sciencefirst7032  Key word, "are". Are they?
    1
  1086.  @sciencefirst7032  The point, friend, is that if they have canine teeth but are not carnivores, you can only acknowledge that an animal having canines is, in fact, not undeniable proof that they have evolved to eat meat, as you've previously claimed. It's a very straight-forward point. There's no need to get exasperated.
    1
  1087.  @sciencefirst7032  So you're acknowledging that the mere presence of canine teeth in an animal doesn't prove it is meant to eat meat?
    1
  1088.  @sciencefirst7032  That's a separate point. Your initial one was that we need meat, and that this is proven by our canines. You've since acknowledged that an animal having canines does not prove that it needs meat. You don't get to say that canine teeth prove a need for meat, but only in humans. That'd be something called, "special pleading".
    1
  1089.  @sciencefirst7032  Do, or do hippopotamuses not need meat? Do, or do hippopotamuses not have canine teeth? If your answer is "no" to the first, and "yes" to the second, you've acknowledged that canines do not prove a need for meat. I could make it simpler, if you need me to.
    1
  1090.  @sciencefirst7032  There we go... "You can have canines and not need meat." It really sucks that you needed to be backed into a corner to admit to this. There could be any number of potential reasons why an animal has canines. There are explanations other than "because it needs meat".
    1
  1091.  @sciencefirst7032  "if you can't answer that question then fuck you and fuck off!!!" Is this what science means to you?
    1
  1092.  @sciencefirst7032  I don't know what I did to make you mad, but, maybe I can't answer your question. There might be an evolutionary biologist somewhere who can, but I probably can't. What do you think this proves? Are you on your way to an argument from ignorance fallacy?
    1
  1093.  @sciencefirst7032  I knew that it wasn't because they needed meat. This disproves your point, not mine.
    1
  1094.  @zachman5150 🧂🧂
    1
  1095.  @BoxEnjoyer  Who tf said anything about the government, you weirdo?
    1
  1096.  @matt1325  Again please.
    1
  1097.  @matt1325  Not necessarily.
    1
  1098.  @matt1325  Value of a fetus is not the only consideration.
    1
  1099. I know we do. Is there a good reason to, is what we're discussing.
    1
  1100. Eh. You kind of are...
    1
  1101.  @justusing6192  Well you said "like cannibals". Eating human meat would just make you literal cannibals.
    1
  1102.  @justusing6192  You just said the same thing again... "like literal cannibals". "Like". Not "are".
    1
  1103.  @travisjohnson7065  Not really what "baseless" means...
    1
  1104.  @travisjohnson7065  Yes. To in fact have no *basis. Not to have not had its basis presented.
    1
  1105. @Coaster Creator Why not?
    1
  1106. Blueberries?
    1
  1107. A person could be pro-choice and still anti-abortion themselves. There's whether you'd do it personally and there's whether you think other people should be allowed to decide for themselves.
    1
  1108. They literally just are, so there's no point arguing that.
    1
  1109.  @perlaxo9885  Well the logical end of that is more like mass infanticide than just abortion rights.
    1
  1110.  @n.n.5286  Is it a human being, though?
    1
  1111.  @n.n.5286  No, whether it's a human being or not definitely is a question.
    1
  1112.  @n.n.5286  It's a single cell, to begin with. Human beings are not single celled organisms.
    1
  1113.  @n.n.5286  So early that it doesn't even have more than one cell. Why would we call that a human being? It's less complex than a patch of moss.
    1
  1114.  @n.n.5286  Yes it does. Human beings are complex.
    1
  1115.  @n.n.5286  A cell.
    1
  1116.  @n.n.5286  No they aren't. You and I are more than one cell.
    1
  1117.  @n.n.5286  One of your teeth is homo sapien cells. That doesn't make it a human being by itself. An embryo may well be a zygote. A fetus though, sure. In the womb a fetus at some point becomes a human being. I don't necessarily think that ends the discussion.
    1
  1118.  @n.n.5286  It is human (adjective). A piece of my hair is human (adjective). Neither is a human (noun).
    1
  1119.  @n.n.5286  Yes, will form into. As they are, they aren't.
    1
  1120. Why?
    1
  1121.  @blastbottles  Says who?
    1
  1122. Spoons?
    1
  1123. @Kuala Lampur 🤣🤣🤣 Cats don't have four legs. Let's pull the dictionary. Definition: a carnivorous mammal (Felis catus) long domesticated as a pet and for catching rats and mice Where is the word quadruped? It's not there. 🤣🤣🤣
    1
  1124. So what's the problem with supplementing?
    1
  1125. The traits that takes sure are admirable. I just find it sad what he's putting them towards.
    1
  1126. ​ @Saidxplore  The only way that analogy makes a point is if homosexual men having romantic relationships is equivalent to children being molested, and I find that quite a disgusting suggestion.
    1
  1127.  @travisjohnson7065  Eukaryotic cells are alive, yes. That's not a debate. What is a debate (for some reason) is whether this has any bearing on the topic of the ethics surrounding abortion. It's common sense that it doesn't.
    1
  1128.  @zachman5150  :(
    1
  1129.  @S6xT2  🫤
    1
  1130. Why shouldn't it be a debate?
    1
  1131. I don't have a uterus, but I do in fact have an opinion. I'm not exactly sure who you think should stop me or how...
    1
  1132. That's patently and provably wrong. We need meat neither to survive nor to be healthy.
    1
  1133.  @larvlarv4204  He probably won't be won over by constant preaching and pestering. The end of a friendship is all that'll come of that.
    1
  1134.  @zachman5150  "trolling like a bunch of trolls" is quite a fatuous and unimaginative simile, don't you think?
    1
  1135.  @zachman5150  You are a participant in the debate, so naturally, you don't get to judge the winner of the debate. Your thoughts on my intellectual character are irrelevant.
    1
  1136.  @ILovePink-x1v  And?
    1
  1137. It can be if you think that personhood is the factor that decides it, which not everyone does.
    1
  1138. Whether or not it's natural is a separate question from whether or not it's good.
    1
  1139. Why not...?
    1
  1140. That's still just Chris Pratt...
    1
  1141.  @pringlesthegoose1702  Scroll through the comment section and do a shot every time you find someone else making this exact same joke. It'll be a good time.
    1
  1142.  @pringlesthegoose1702  Take your medicine.
    1
  1143.  @zachman5150  You've already revealed that you don't actually believe that.
    1
  1144.  @zachman5150  Yes, you have. You've acknowledged that individuals born intersex can be women.
    1
  1145.  @zachman5150  Individuals born intersex are not born female. If you acknowledge that there are intersex women, you acknowledge that not all women are born female. "It's not a psych issue" does nothing to negate this.
    1
  1146.  @zachman5150  So is an intersex person male or female, both or neither? Bite the bullet, Zach. The existence of intersex people disproves at least some of your position. Let me know when you're ready to decide which part.
    1
  1147.  @matt1325  Personhood hasn't been mentioned at all, so I don't know why you've pivoted to it.
    1
  1148.  @matt1325  And what makes you think I'm speaking philosophically? "Whether it's a human being is questionable" is literally all I've said. What about that gives you enough evidence to tell me that what I mean is not what I'm saying and presume to explain my own thoughts to me?
    1
  1149.  @evemii  Where was the judgement? Is there lore here that I'm not up to speed on?
    1
  1150.  @acgraphics1139  Well, obviously they can be. There would be a conflict between their religion and sexuality is what I was getting at.
    1
  1151.  @noggdogg  The topic is veganism. If you're not relating what you're saying back to the topic, this is a red herring.
    1
  1152. The food chain that humans are on top of absolutely is a concept.
    1
  1153. "these things"... ?
    1
  1154. Just venting?
    1
  1155.  @toikissa8734  "justificating"
    1
  1156.  @matt1325  A zygote is human (adjective). A strand of my hair is human (adjective). Neither a zygote nor a strand of my hair is a human (noun). This is the distinction in terms that you have failed to follow.
    1
  1157.  @matt1325  On what?
    1
  1158.  @matt1325  I just gave you the terms and the distinction.
    1
  1159.  @matt1325  "it is member of the human species just as much as sperm or zygote, it isn't." "Are you trying to argue the fetus isn't human?" You fallaciously equivocated "human" (adjective) with "a human" (noun).
    1
  1160.  @matt1325  "They aren't humans." That's what she said, and I see no evidence that it's not what she meant. I don't think she meant "they aren't human", and I base that on the fact that she has at no point said it.
    1
  1161.  Josephs_Mantle I  Explain why homosexuality is obviously not correct.
    1
  1162. That's not true. Humans are animals. That's just biology.
    1
  1163.  @criticclips1560  And how do you figure?
    1
  1164.  @criticclips1560  Yeah, I kind of thought so.
    1
  1165.  @criticclips1560  I thought you might mouth off and go quiet when I called you on it.
    1
  1166.  @criticclips1560  "your the one who's scared looool" This is what you said. I asked you to back it up, and you went quiet. You're mouthing off again now, so how long will it take this time?
    1
  1167.  @criticclips1560  I don't put "lol" in every comment I make to keep feeling like I'm winning. Can you back up anything you say or is this all you have?
    1
  1168. ​ @criticclips1560  Is this the best you can do?
    1
  1169. I wonder if an abortion should be something courts have to allow after considering an individual's circumstances.
    1
  1170.  @eveliinahannele  Why?
    1
  1171.  @eveliinahannele  It's the courts that decide whether they are human rights...
    1
  1172.  @eveliinahannele  An international court, yes. I'm asking about whether that was the right decision. It's not obvious to me that it was.
    1
  1173.  @eveliinahannele  Yes. There are international courts, and they decide what is and isn't recognized internationally as a human right. You keep saying "internationally recognized". Think. Who has actually done the recognizing?
    1
  1174.  @eveliinahannele  They instated them to begin with. They can make changes to them. Things have been declared human rights that weren't when the original declaration was made. There is nothing in particular stopping international courts making changes to it.
    1
  1175.  @eveliinahannele  Yes that's actually exactly how the process works. Rights are a legal construct. Legal matters are deliberated on by courts. International law is deliberated on by the UN court. The International Court of Justice. Look it up.
    1
  1176. What's wrong with pointing your nails?
    1
  1177.  @yellowyellowyellow7894  Why?
    1
  1178.  @mixedfeelingsaboutturning1910  How is it who they are if they can not be it?
    1
  1179. It seems to be, yeah.
    1
  1180.  @mixedfeelingsaboutturning1910  :o
    1
  1181.  @nathanieldavis511  No. Have you seen an embryo do either of those?
    1
  1182. ​ @nathanieldavis511  So what is it that decides whether one life is more valuable than another?
    1
  1183. 🙃
    1
  1184.  @zachman5150  That's all a little redundant after being impregnated as the result of assault, isn't it?
    1
  1185. Would you still eat it for the taste if you weren't a Christian?
    1
  1186. "periodt".
    1
  1187. Christianity must be destroyed.
    1
  1188.  @TheElfpath  That really doesn't sound too loving or peaceful. That sounds a lot like a threat.
    1
  1189. It's literally just not.
    1
  1190.  @noiceb6170  Once again: Not what murder means. 😑 Open a dictionary.
    1
  1191.  @noiceb6170  That abortion is NOT murder. Read what the dictionary says.
    1
  1192.  @skuastone9698  It's not murder.
    1
  1193. @Humanity Galatica No it's not.
    1
  1194. @Humanity Galatica No it isn't.
    1
  1195.  @skuastone9698  I wouldn't be talking to you if I'd been aborted, no. Duh. Are you saying literally anything that brings a person into existence is right?
    1
  1196. @Humanity Galatica "Duh."
    1
  1197. Meat isn't essential for a healthy diet. I don't really have much to say about the rest of this horse shit, but that is factually incorrect. You pulled it out of your ass.
    1
  1198.  @iLeona296  Lmao... I just brought up the scientific consensus and you went radio silent. Yet you come back still pretending the science is on your side.
    1
  1199. There's no scientific criteria for whether something's a baby. Anti-abortion types know this. They just say baby to appeal to emotion.
    1
  1200.  @MsRikihana  Nah. Trans women are women.
    1
  1201.  @zachman5150  Please stop trying to be condescending in your responses. It doesn't sound confident or even insulting. It just comes off as creepy.
    1
  1202. I don't think she meant just lentils. That's a sensible assumption, yes?
    1
  1203. Well no person ever stops being a clump of cells. We're made of cells. The question is what do you mean by "just" a clump of cells?
    1
  1204. The logical end of that is that aborting a baby is to do them a favour...
    1
  1205.  @graygraygray4454  u.
    1
  1206. That's more to do with you not being able to conceptualise what an animal is than anything else. Most people can, so I think we'll be alright...
    1
  1207.  @mariec3733  It's not women's actions that lead to pregnancy, eh?
    1
  1208.  @mariec3733  What planet are you on?
    1
  1209. You might be talking about a single cell, dude. You're really stretching to call that a child. Yes it's alive but so is an onion. Life isn't all that matters, and it really doesn't matter that much by itself.
    1
  1210.  @me18122  Yes. Zygotes are much less complex than vegetables. There is nothing in them. They think and feel nothing. They're a cell.
    1
  1211.  @me18122  No, plants can't think, but you aren't saying we should treat them like humans. Fertilised eggs can't think either, but you ARE saying we should treat them like humans. See your problem?
    1
  1212.  @me18122  A sperm can grow into a human. Do we have to let all of them too?
    1
  1213.  @me18122  So you're answer is, "yes, every sperm should fertilise an egg." Are you sure you're happy with that?
    1
  1214. This was a discussion. Nothing was forced on anyone. Stop your whinging.
    1
  1215. You should probably let those idiot hippopotamuses know that they've been carnivores this entire time.
    1
  1216. What if we don't want a relationship with Yashua?
    1
  1217. Sucks.
    1
  1218.  @crimsoncourt9354  No it isn't.
    1
  1219.  @crimsoncourt9354  You haven't made an argument. You've repeated a claim. Repeating something doesn't make it true. That's your problem. Not mine.
    1
  1220. Joey G ate my grand mama's feet and to this day fraudulently claims her disability allowance.
    1
  1221.  @HAL-ck4ov  You thought wrong.
    1
  1222. Being an agnostic doesn't make you not an atheist, though. That's what he was wrong about.
    1
  1223.  @SamaelDaking  Right, but, it does, though.
    1
  1224.  @laknidubandara  Truth is not a democracy.
    1
  1225.  @laknidubandara  Many countries' political systems are a democracy. The facts of reality are not a democracy. Did you really not know that?
    1
  1226.  @laknidubandara  Yes it is about reality. We live in reality. What do you think this discussion is about?
    1
  1227. No it isn't.
    1
  1228. Yeah that really is the one that separates the still some-kind-of-reasonable ones from the ones who've just become complete ideologues.
    1
  1229. Why should you behave any differently from a wild animal, is basically what you're asking.
    1
  1230.  @alejandropaniagua9327  Why only when it comes to the type of food we eat?
    1
  1231. That's not the topic of the discussion.
    1
  1232. Because meat isn't produced without an animal getting killed. Abusing animals is bad.
    1
  1233.  @user-mr1zs1np7w  A lion wouldn't feel sorry for an animal it abused either. So why did you even bother to deny it?
    1
  1234.  @shihyuchu6753  Yep. You wrote "absolute truth" instead of just "truth". You drew a synthetic distinction.
    1
  1235.  @shihyuchu6753  Yep. You said that later but in your original comment you said, "absolute truth".
    1
  1236. ??? No they're not 🤣
    1
  1237. Europe colonising America and Africa would be just as easy to defend with "survival of the fittest".
    1
  1238.  @texasjoehotdog1838  No it's not.
    1
  1239. @Ty The Great Yes it is.
    1
  1240. @Ty The Great What definition are you going on?
    1
  1241. @Ty The Great Open a dictionary.
    1
  1242. @Ty The Great "No u"
    1
  1243. @Ty The Great The dictionary won't open you.
    1
  1244. @Ty The Great Dictionary's waiting. Don't keep her.
    1
  1245. There are also elephants.
    1
  1246.  @TheTyler701  Yeah. I have a third choice, as it turns out.
    1
  1247.  @TheTyler701  So are hippopotamuses carnivores?
    1
  1248. That's called a confirmation bias.
    1
  1249. Important to what?
    1
  1250.  @zachman5150  Is that relevant?
    1
  1251.  @zachman5150  How is it?
    1
  1252.  @zachman5150  To the topic under discussion, Zach.
    1
  1253. Soya milk being more expensive doesn't make veganism more expensive. Vegan diets don't hinge on soya milk.
    1
  1254. What does it matter that you're a vegetarian? No one in the video is a vegetarian. What does vegetarianism have to do with anything?
    1
  1255.  @tnmygrwl  I am a vegan. I have never been a vegetarian. So, no, vegetarianism is not a precursor to veganism.
    1
  1256.  @tnmygrwl  Veganism is to abstain from consuming animal products. Vegetarianism is, specifically, abstinence from meat and fish. Veganism, not vegetarianism, is under discussion here. What do you think you're adding by prefacing comments with, "as a vegetarian"?
    1
  1257. Yes, and to chew food.
    1
  1258. It wouldn't matter. You'd still have men and women using the same bathroom.
    1
  1259. I don't know. The Bible does say some dodgy things about whether gay people are allowed into the club.
    1
  1260.  @Nonalhomophobie  No it doesn't. You don't become something just through feeling it.
    1
  1261.  @Nonalhomophobie  I don't know why you thought that was relevant. What do you even think I've been saying?
    1
  1262.  @TheFaySchoolKids  No, it certainly has more than one definition.
    1
  1263.  @HoldenPolice  So?
    1
  1264. @Nyla Well, it means you believe in his teachings.
    1
  1265.  @TheFaySchoolKids  Have you looked it up?
    1
  1266.  @TheFaySchoolKids  And can you count further than one?
    1
  1267.  @Emptycoconut  That's not even true. Reducing the demand for animal products reduces the number of animals kept by the industry.
    1
  1268.  @Emptycoconut  It's not growing at the rate it would be if all vegans were meat eaters too. Reducing demand shrinks an industry. That's just a fact. You can't read minds, so how about you don't try to tell other people why they're "really" vegans?
    1
  1269. Christianity just is homophobic, dude.
    1
  1270.  @user-zw3pg7nl8yj  Yes.
    1
  1271. Is calling you a cis woman forcing an ideology on you?
    1
  1272.  @eliash8903  I'm wearing jeans and a t-shirt... So, turns out you don't, I guess.
    1
  1273.  @eliash8903  Who the Hell is Billy?
    1
  1274. Is Mr Stilton in jail?
    1
  1275.  @TheFaySchoolKids  You could just ask if you really want another argument about contractions this badly...
    1
  1276.  @HoldenPolice  Yes it is and yes it does.
    1
  1277.  @HAL-ck4ov  No he wasn't.
    1
  1278.  @HAL-ck4ov  I haven't, though so that means he isn't racist like me.
    1
  1279.  @HAL-ck4ov  No I'm not.
    1
  1280. An unborn fetus can be or not be a baby. I don't think there's a hard line to be drawn, but a zygote is very obviously not a baby.
    1
  1281.  @raynamarie942  A zygote is a living being. A blade of grass is a living being. Who cares?
    1
  1282.  @zachman5150  Zygotes don't either unless they're facilitated to.
    1
  1283.  @zachman5150  What you just said isn't necessarily true. There are conditions.
    1
  1284.  @zachman5150  Are you aware of any where an aborted zygote did?
    1
  1285. So?
    1
  1286. The Bible was written by men. It's as fallible as anything else that was.
    1
  1287. Why should you behave any differently from a wild animal, is basically what you're asking.
    1
  1288. No it doesn't. Plenty of pro-choice people believe a fetus is alive. Life is not what it boils down to.
    1
  1289.  @Jruderstam  That still doesn't encapsulate it. There are pro-choicers who'd accept that, too. Value of a fetus' life isn't the only thing to argue about here.
    1
  1290.  @Addison.Renfroe  But, once again: One that has nothing that makes a human life valuable.
    1
  1291.  @Addison.Renfroe  Yes.
    1
  1292.  @Addison.Renfroe  Yes, it does. In no sensible circle is this debatable.
    1
  1293.  @Addison.Renfroe  Sentience. Something with no neurological faculties is not sentient. This is objective.
    1
  1294. ​ @Addison.Renfroe  Sentience is a prerequisite for being a moral consideration.
    1
  1295.  @Addison.Renfroe  Sentience. Sentient beings are a moral consideration. Non-sentient beings and objects are not. You've now been given the answer for the third time.
    1
  1296.  @annaflorentina3848  Who says it was with consent?
    1
  1297. Moral of the Story: Force your religious values on people.
    1
  1298. Something isn't good just because it's been happening forever, though. People have been fighting and killing each other pretty much ever since they've existed. It doesn't make it a smart idea.
    1
  1299.  @ayaanayubi1117  So?
    1
  1300.  @ayaanayubi1117  ... Sharks are wild animals, dude. You can't reason with a shark. Are you basically saying I might as well be trying to have a conversation with a shark, here?
    1
  1301.  @TheLegendOfRandy  What on Earth are you on about?
    1
  1302. No.
    1
  1303.  @Lobo.Blanco5AB  Emojis don't bother me. You have emojis, and I have the science of biology. I just though you should know that those aren't great odds for you.
    1
  1304. ​ @zachman5150  No, don't run back to your silly copy/pastes. Answer the question. What 𝘸𝘢𝘴 all that about the etymology of "cis"? You've copy/pasted about it several times here, so you clearly see some relevance in it.
    1
  1305.  @zachman5150  Answer the question. No point doubling down on changing the subject.
    1
  1306.  @st4rr1n46  What makes you think I didn't understand that...?
    1
  1307.  @st4rr1n46  Then I guess I still don't understand 🙃
    1
  1308. That's just a matter of the stage in development. At labour's edge the thing definitely is a baby. There's pretty much no meaningful way in which an egg is alive only days after fertilising, though.
    1
  1309.  @earbunnyisgloomy9613  Saying something is morally acceptable because it's natural is always a fallacy, dude.
    1
  1310. |*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*IamJustGivingFacts*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|
    1
  1311. -_-
    1
  1312.  @zachman5150  You might be disappointed...
    1
  1313.  @anousenic  Saying someone is transphobic doesn't mean you've prejudged them. Some people just are.
    1
  1314.  @zachman5150  No. Someone being transphobic makes it so. I'm describing. Not prescribing.
    1
  1315.  @masterbaiter1237  Are you saying all humans are capable of sophisticated conversation?
    1
  1316.  @masterbaiter1237  What about the ones who aren't?
    1
  1317.  @zachman5150  Um... I didn't say you risked getting yourself pregnant... Where on Earth did that come from? 😕
    1
  1318.  @zachman5150  No, they can't "force a woman to accept them choosing to not wear a condom." What they can do is choose not to wear a condom.
    1
  1319.  @matt1325  No.
    1
  1320. No. Not all biological men are conservative.
    1
  1321.  @bradleymcdonald6273  Whether people are born with their sexualities or not, the point remains that it's not a choice. People's sex lives are their own business in any case. They generally don't solicit the opinions of strangers to affirm them.
    1
  1322.  @jackevans7665  I actually think you can do that. Dogs are omnivores. They can settle on just plants. Even if they couldn't normally, there's synthetic stuff that can solve that. It's the 21st century. We know how to do that type of stuff.
    1
  1323.  @jackevans7665  I don't think you'd have to force a dog to eat vegan dog food. It'd probably just eat what you give it without knowing the difference. I'd guess a person who is vegan would feed their dog likewise, and if the dog is okay on it, I don't see the issue.
    1
  1324.  @jackevans7665  Dude. They're omnivores. They eat everything. You don't have to threaten to starve them before they eat something other than meat. As long as it tastes like food they probably don't care.
    1
  1325.  @jackevans7665  Every animal you just named is a herbivore, bro... Dogs are omnivores. They eat plants. You aren't forcing an animal to do something by feeding it something it eats. This is getting retarded. Why are you so against an animal having a diet that's fine for it?
    1
  1326.  @CalistaAlvarez  Why keep at that? There are many, many women in the world. They're all different from each other.
    1
  1327. There are enough plants to go around. There are more livestock animals than humans as it is. What do you think they've been eating?
    1
  1328.  @nolimitbrax2  Not if they're saying opposite things you can't...
    1
  1329.  @emilranfors4540  You're not vegan, though.
    1
  1330. It's not obvious that either is true.
    1
  1331. We're still animals, though. "Animal" isn't a species...
    1
  1332. It depends which food chain you're asking about. If it's the one that's a construct of human civilization, then, yes. Surprise. Humans are at the top. If we're talking about the food chain that occurs naturally in the wild, no. Humans are nowhere near the top.
    1
  1333.  @krys8494  That isn't a very strong case, I'm afraid.
    1
  1334.  @EvanCanSee  Guns don't occur in the wild. Guns are protection we take with us into the wild from civilization. The distinction between naturally occurring food chains and ones that are constructs of civilization seems to have gone over your head.
    1
  1335. Who gets to decide what a living and feeling being's purpose in life is? If someone creates a being just so that it can be killed, that doesn't make it okay to kill it. That just makes the creator immoral.
    1
  1336. "Abortion is murder you can try to use your word play as much as you want..." 🤣🤣🤣
    1
  1337. Intersex men can give birth. It's rare but it has happened.
    1
  1338. u smell
    1
  1339. It's as much a waste of time trying to reason with you as with an animal, is what you're saying.
    1
  1340.  @heghoge4639  Because they're compensating for sleeping 20 hours a day. Is that the answer you were after?
    1
  1341.  @heghoge4639  What is the answer you wanted, then? And what are you getting at with this?
    1
  1342.  @heghoge4639  I have no idea what you're trying to say...
    1
  1343.  @heghoge4639  So you're deliberately talking nonsense?
    1
  1344.  @heghoge4639  Will I ever understand what it's doing in a YouTube comment section?
    1
  1345.  @heghoge4639  Yes. I've been listening. You haven't been explaining, but I've been listening.
    1
  1346.  @heghoge4639  Say something else with flimsy grammar that doesn't make any sense.
    1
  1347.  @heghoge4639  And where the hood at?
    1
  1348.  @heghoge4639  Da hood.
    1
  1349.  @heghoge4639  Come back this instant.
    1
  1350. Not being a fatass is aided by being vegan.
    1
  1351.  @franciscagaisie778  They haven't been called "sex reassignment" surgeries in a long time. Changing a person's sex is not and never was what those surgeries are meant to do.
    1
  1352.  @zachman5150  What men?
    1
  1353.  @franciscagaisie778  Who?
    1
  1354.  @franciscagaisie778  Does any transgender person think they stop being transgender when they have gender affirmation surgery? And if they do, why does it matter?
    1
  1355. Then get your act together!
    1
  1356.  @marysaotome7823  You aren't doing your vegan duty!
    1
  1357.  @jackm3720  People are able to make decisions based on ethics, but many make a knowing decision not to. Some knowingly disregard morals in their conduct. Effectively, there's no difference between this, and the behavior of an animal that can't conceptualize ethics. I know that there are humans whose lives are absolutely worth valuing over the life of an animal. But it's not a given that this is true of all people. Maybe not even most.
    1
  1358. Is that your contribution?
    1
  1359.  @Catholic-Redpilled-Spaniard  Why not?
    1
  1360.  @Catholic-Redpilled-Spaniard  That was a reiteration. Not an explanation.
    1
  1361.  @Catholic-Redpilled-Spaniard  I don't know why you bothered speaking...
    1
  1362.  @zachman5150  So are you saying it's justified to restrict them or are you denying that it has to be? You seemed to be trying both just there.
    1
  1363.  @zachman5150  It's a free country. The burden to justify is on those seeking to restrict freedoms.
    1
  1364.  @zachman5150  Why shouldn't trans women be allowed to use women's bathrooms?
    1
  1365.  @zachman5150  Trans women aren't men. Women can't be men.
    1
  1366. Lmao.
    1
  1367. So?
    1
  1368. "Deserve" isn't a part of this. No one is arguing for abortion to punish fetuses.
    1
  1369.  @nv3389  Why except for rape? Does everything you've said so far not hold true in those cases?
    1
  1370.  @lenakielk5454  What you described is basically what I think about this, and I'm an atheist.
    1
  1371.  @lenakielk5454  That doesn't seem to conflict with anything you've said.
    1
  1372.  @lenakielk5454  No.
    1
  1373. @TheHiddenArchives You're cute.
    1
  1374. Shouldas, Wouldas and Couldas are very rarely a solution to anything.
    1
  1375.  @ore2739  Seen what?
    1
  1376.  @ore2739  A little more specific please?
    1
  1377.  @ore2739  Yes there is. "The truth" doesn't tell me anything. I still have no idea what you're saying you actually saw.
    1
  1378.  @ore2739  I'm blind, my heart is hardened, my conscienceness is numb etc etc... The fact that you say all this to me just because I asked a question only shows that it's you who is hardened...
    1
  1379.  @ore2739  I haven't denied anything. All I've done is ask a question.
    1
  1380.  @nickstojic6995  At least 50%...
    1
  1381.  @nickstojic6995  I don't remember ever speaking to you, so I don't know who the "you guys" you think you know enough to group me in with are.
    1
  1382.  @nickstojic6995  I meant before now, genius.
    1
  1383.  @nickstojic6995  I now know enough about you guys to know this conversation is not worth continuing
    1
  1384. So are hippopotamuses carnivores?
    1
  1385. "Carnists."
    1
  1386. What makes you think we don't understand it, dude?
    1
  1387.  @anoukf9455  He said he wants to help us understand. That's hardly much use if we already do.
    1
  1388.  @anoukf9455  Read the comment, dude. "Understand Christian faith" is what he said.
    1
  1389.  @loneboyhomesteader  That's pretty vague...
    1
  1390.  @loneboyhomesteader  "other instances where things have happened."
    1
  1391.  @loneboyhomesteader  Why would it need to be verbally?
    1