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Andre Falksmen
Today I Found Out
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Comments by "Andre Falksmen" (@andrefalksmen1264) on "" video.

Oh yes, Russians should hate a man who took from a nation of superstitious peasants into an industrial superpower and who saw the rising danger of invasion and prepared the nation to defend itself from invasion. sarcasm off Unless you are a sad self-hating Western lapdog, you understand the Stalin was and forever shall be one of the greatests, boldest, and most visionary men who ever lived.
88
@danialyousaf6456 Russia did not have concentration camps, it had Gulags, forced labor camps. Guess what, those camps existed under the Czar, and they exist under the Russian Federation, even under the time of Boris Yeltsin. actually, all of the horrible things said about Stalin's regime, the secret police, the work camps, the secrecy, the fear of open criticism, are natural to Russian goverance. So there is a book by a French Aristocrat who toured Russia, called Russia in 1843, about Russia under the rule of the Tsar. All of the same accusations about despotism are levied against the czarist regime. You have to understand a people's history and culture, no matter what system of government they employ there will be different attitudes to certain aspects of life, despite the Western lie about the universality of their mentality. Stalin's method of government was in accord with the history of the Russian Empire, the difference was unlike the Tsar he did not use it or the wealthy created for his own personal aggrandizement but rather to strengthen and build up the Soviet state. If you were talking about the actual use of concentration camps such as existed by the British during the Boer war or by Nazi Germany, what open? All I will say is that the actions of the Nazi regime, and to a lesser extent that of the Soviet government are constantly Harped upon, while the far greater crimes of European Empires are ignored, for one simple reason, the color of the people who suffered. By the way, you know the Nazi policy of taking two man from every corner house and having them shots to gain compliance over the population, the British introduced that after World War 1 in their occupation of what would become Iraq.
72
@danialyousaf6456 first of all, I'm not a Russian. Secondly you are a delusional twat. The cost of modernization and industrialization of a nation is paid in blood. Eight and a half percent of the French population died under Napoleon's wars and reforms, 4% of the British population died during the English Civil War and cromwell's Commonwealth, 9% of the Prussian population died in the wars and reforms of Frederick the Great, the number of deaths under Stalin equates to only 6% of the population of the Soviet Union at the start of the reform. Your delusional Western liberal pansy like ideas would leave a country weak and vulnerable to Invasion by aggressive foreign powers, particularly in the case of the Soviet Union a conquest and enslavement by Nazis! Any country which is unprepared to undergo the internal discipline and reforms necessary to stand in the world as an equal , because they're afraid of a little blood shed, is going to be invaded and enslaved by more aggressive powers and suffer a far worse fate, like the two hundred years of humiliation most non-western country suffered at the hands of European Empire.
65
@svyatoslavefremov6030 set you back! You are delusional, a victim of Western propaganda! Stalin drove Russia forward a hundred years in less than 15 years. If you don't understand the backwardness and degradation of your country prior to the industrialization and modernization Stalin had inacted in your nation, then ignorance is not a sufficient word to describe your mental impairment.
43
@theangelbelow88 if a person willfully ignore the facts and promulgate delusional disorder alternative solutions one must logically conclude that they are either a liar or an idiot, or both. You can disagree with Stalin's methods, but you cannot lie about his results. Furthermore, to disagree with his methods one would have to present a reasonable, and historical set of Alternatives but could have been able to say outcome, and there really aren't any. well, unless your goal is a Nazi victory in World War II, if so, then condemn Stalin all day long.
24
@svyatoslavefremov6030 you are a fool. The same growth rate does not mean the same quality of growth. Just compare Bangladesh in Botswana to China. Stalin made the Soviet Union a technological Powerhouse, a superpower in its own right, everything that Russia has today, everything that is achieved with the results of Stalin's actions. Don't let the West fool you. The West exhorted more blood and killed more people than Stalin or the Soviet regime ever did, the difference is the people to the West brutilized for advancement never got any of these benefits, they were slaves in colonial subject peoples. Look at African Americans today, did they ever get any of the benefits of the labor exhorted from them, no all they have is their own bitterness and other peoples hatred. I've been to enough chaotic third world hell holes to understand why enforced discipline is needed and that there will be Bloodshed to make any long-term significant progress in any society which is pre-industrialized.
23
@tsartomato first to put up a satellite, first to put a man in space, producer of their own jet engines, producer of their own nuclear reactors, producer their own microprocessors, don't try to lie about the results because you don't like the methods.
23
@fastinradfordable first off, why are you trying to individualize the regime? Second, once again you think like a child. We're not millions of people going to suffer and die and worse if the Nazis had succeeded in invading an occupying the Soviet Union? Which would have been a certain case if Stalin had not pursued his policy of industrialization. Stop trying to make Stalin out to be a megalomaniac, he was a Visionary who saw the danger and prepared his Nation. Did Stalin work millions of people to death to build himself palaces Vineyards, or other living sprees, no! Stalin ordered the people to build roads, dams, power stations, schools, hospitals, Factories, and to lift themsleves out of the degradation of poverty. Because of what Stalin did generations of Russians would never know famine, disease, illiteracy, foreign occupation, or living as a refugee ever again.
19
@llljustcallhimdave so by your standard America is as guilty as Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union because it operated chain gangs and used convict labor extensively until the middle of the 20th century, correct?
17
@tsartomato that was a result of the collapse of Communism, noticed the difference in results between China under continued Communist party rule and Soviet countries. Russia's GDP after the collapse of the Soviet Union contracted by 92%. The only thing that democracy brought you was poverty and gangsterism. Now you have Putin, he's not the best, but he's the best you've got, most former Soviet Republics have never regained their industrial and technological capabilities, as has not most of Eastern Europe, sucking down subsidies from German taxpayer.
17
@samanjj this is not about "whataboutism" this is about reality, there is no way to transform a nation but does not involve fatalities and bloodshed, and there is no way to carry out a major industrialization where people are not forced to conform to a rigid structure and where labor and resources are not extracted. As i have shown, there's not a single example in history, westerners can lie because they brutalized and extracted those resources from, rather than their own. Far from hating its people, Stalin loves his Nation so greatly that he did all that he could prepare them and strengthen them to overcome Invasion and make them a great power in the world. He did not take the wealth of this nation palaces in Europe, or tour the world, or keep a harem. Against Stalin built for his people industrial capacity, educated them, and made them a world power, you can hate this method all you want, but don't sit here and lie about the man. Because of what Stalin did, the former peasantry of Russia could stand in the world equal any other ethnic group, every opportunity of modernity available to them. A far cry from those poor minority souls who have to live a second-class citizens in Western Society, sweeping floors and being whores, for the delusion of being apart of modernity.
15
@fastinradfordable because he strengthened his Nation, he educated and industrialized them, he kept them from being occupied and enslaved, made them a superpower and master of their own destiny.......... if you don't understand why such a person is held in high esteem, you're just a dummy
15
@svyatoslavefremov6030 please, Stalin died in 1953, everyone knows that all all of the advances of Soviet Union made work the work of Stalin, the men he trained and place in positions of authority.
14
@NeoTechni if I am a monster to defend a man who built the industrial and technological capabilities of his nation, turns them from peasants into an educated Workforce, defended them from foreign occupation and slavery, and made them a superpower, then I am proud to bear that label. I would simply ask the question, what do you call the people who defend the United States and the European Empires who brutalized and murdered 10x more people for 10 times longer than Stalin, and whose victims never received the benefits of their labor as the people of the Soviet Union did? I'm sure that's just peachy in your book, since you call a man who built up his nation and saved them from Invasion worse than Hitler, a man who was committed genocide against foreign people in order to create more living space for his own. Yes, in your books, forcibly lifting your people to a better place is worse than murdering millions of foreign peoples for the aggrandizement of your own.
13
@fastinradfordable yes, it's wrong to save your country from enslavement in occupation by Nazis......... said an idiot with the mind of a child
11
@svyatoslavefremov6030 you simply lack the intellectual capacity and the personal maturity to grasp the Brilliance of Stalin. While I have the intellectual capacity, your complete ignorance prevent you from understanding my admiration for the man, you find my viewpoint foolish much in the same way a neanderthal would find the concerns of a modern human foolish. If you think that a man who took a nation of backwards superstitious peasant and made them a superpower in less than 20 years was mediocre, I certainly would like to see the man you think is exceptional. However, given the nonsense you have spewed here, it is most likely the men you admire are liberal nonsense Liberation figures who talked a good game but never got anything done.
11
@samanjj clearly there are many people here who are lying, because they are claiming that Stalin ruled the regime for his own personal enrichment and aggrandizement. Even educated critics of the man understand if that was not the case. You also display your own ignorance, the Soviet population was not educated, literacy rates were below 20%, and there were less than a thousand college graduates in the country when Stalin came to power. It was Stalin who forcibly educated the population. Go look at The Luminaries of Soviet science, The Men Who who are the physicists and Engineers of Space Program so, for example, and you will see or kittens backgrounds to gain their education through Stalin's forced policies. Even the designer of the Mig Jet was an illiterate and innumerate peasants until the age of 25, Stalinist education was applied in his area, and he suffered many beating before he was willing to complete basic education. obviously, being beaten into finishing a basic education does not lend one to academic success. However when sent to the Army he encountered airplanes and became inspired, he took that basic education and applied himself, completed a PhD in Aeronautical Engineering.
10
@NeoTechni you are a fool a stooge for Western propaganda.
9
@samanjj yes, millions...... again, even American and European technical experts hired by the Soviets complained about sabotage and Wrecking from workers.
9
@barneymiller7894 dude, there's no reason to even engage with you because you're just telling lies, even if you disagree with Stalins's methods, it's BS to claimed he destroyed their economy when everyone knows he built it up to level never before obtained.
9
Stalin did not enslave anyone, that is stupid Western propaganda. Stalin forced the population of the Soviet Union to receive an education, Garner new technical skills, and industrialize the country. Guess what? He did not run off to Switzerland with the income generated from those actions, he built up the capacity of the Soviet Union and the benefits of that industrialization, both in terms of living standards and opportunities went back to the Soviet people. Forcibly making people better themselves may not be liberalism, but it damn sure is not slavery.
9
@samanjj he killed off saboteurs, and people engage in treason, the intellectuals and technicians who survived were loyal to the cause of the Soviet Union and to seeing their Nation flourish. That is why the Soviets were first to develop a satellite and first to send a man to space. You know, you people love to talk about the gulags and the book Gulag archipelago, everyone fails to mention that the author of the book, disavowed his statement after seeing the West in person, and disavowed the west and returned it to the Soviet Union.
8
@samanjj people are resistant to change, people are resistant to self-improvement people are resistant to sacrificing for long-term goals. Bad leadership would be allowing those people to derail the progress of the nation, leaving it vulnerable to foreign Invasion and occupation. Good leadership is driving the nation for despite the obstacles of these people.
8
@barneymiller7894 Yeah, yeah, were your slaving, raping, torturing,murdering founding fathers saint? People who build up your country by brutalizing robbing and stealing from other people or good in your book. A man who by sheer force of will lift his Nation out of poverty in degradation into being a superpower, is bad. I think we all can see your agenda.
8
@barneymiller7894 that infrastructure and industry was good enough to beat Hitler, as well as first to put up a satellite, first to put a man in space, and hold their own as a superpower against the United States. Results speak for themselves.
8
@pietdev.4648 yes, and don't forget the Bukaranist, "you cannot build current factories with future bricks"; you'll never get anything done with that additude.
7
@barneymiller7894 then all you are watching is American propaganda, because the regime in Kiev has failed in every goal it is set for itself, and with the completion of Nord stream 2 they will be bankrupt in isolated.
7
@barneymiller7894 Dummy, Stalin ordered the construction of industry and cities East of Urals in the 1930s. Moreover, Soviet forces where already a Germany's eastern border when the allies barely reached Paris.
7
@python27au not everybody's going to make it. But I would gladly lay down my life if I knew my children and posterity after me would have all of the benefits and opportunities of modernity Available to them within their own Society. That my descendants would not have to live as second or third class citizens in someone else's Society, begging for justice and equality, for the mere semblance access to modernity. My only regret would be that I had only one life to give.
7
@barneymiller7894 I don't have time to deal with your nonsense, I did years of research on the subject. But see the chart if you don't understand https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2017/11/09/what-there-is-to-learn-from-the-soviet-economic-model
6
@barneymiller7894 Stalin's focus was on heavy industry because that is a basis for all other industrialization, if you have not completed heavy and chemical industrialization first, you're going to be a backward economy of sweatshops producing low-value consumer good. Moreover, Stalin was focused on preparing his Nation for Invasion, as such arguments were all the first priority. Secondly the peasantry resisted and sabotage agriculture, but there were gains. https://www.google.com/amp/s/mltheory.wordpress.com/2016/08/07/the-results-of-the-1st-2nd-soviet-five-year-plans-soviet-industrial-revolution/amp/
6
@barneymiller7894 again, he beat Hitler. No doubt that they were called the issues and a rush to transform a peasant subsistence economy in trim industrial economy, and transform peasants into industrial workers. However, it was clearly good enough to defeat industrial giants like Germany and best a thoroughly industrialized country like the United States in the Space Race as well as a Workforce educated enough to maintain the Soviet position as a superpower. Again you can hate Stalin all you want for his methodology, although I think that would be small-minded and naive, but you cannot lie about his outcome.
6
@samanjj Was George Washington a monster, how about Columbus? Napoleon? The hypocrisy is amusing.
6
@python27au oh yes because they're going to live lives of boundless happiness as third-world peasants, or hated minorities in other people's Societies. They're being forced to make a temporary sacrifice, to better themselves, to have a better life and Society for themselves and their children in perpetuity. If you cannot understand that you are a narrow-minded naive imbecile.
6
@nexiuma8538 first of all you're an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about. The Chernobyl reactor was one of the most advanced designs ever put together. It could produce nuclear energy from raw uranium, and turn it into usable weapons-grade plutonium while generating energy from the process. The Chernobyl disaster happened as part of a planned meltdown test, someone disengage the safety protocols, we still don't know who. As for Stalin, despite all the lies and slander you may level against this man, he will still be the greatest builder of civilization in the last 1000 years. And Russia Today still cannot be cowed or bullied by outside forces because of the advances in Civilization he bequathed to them.
6
@nexiuma8538 Wikipedia Warrior! Hindsight is 20/20, what Stalin's achievements will never be diminished. RUSSIA still Will never be subject to foreign power because of his actions.
6
Barry Baz It not my fault if you are only capable of confusing Western jingoism as history.
6
@barneymiller7894 you can look them up, they are widely avaliable.
5
@svyatoslavefremov6030 where they are subject people ever able to cause enough Rebellion to force an invader to leave once they've established in occupation, if that were the case, the Palestinians would have already driven out the Israelis. You have a childlike libertarian oversimplifications of geopolitics in your head. The world was far more globalized and integrated 1, to leave once they've established in occupation, if that were the case, the Palestinians would have already driven out the Israelis. You have a childlike libertarian oversimplifications of geopolitics in your head. The world was far more globalized and integrated before World War 1, and it did not stop the European Empires from going to war with each other. Even the heads of state were related by blood and it still didnt stop them warring with each other.
5
@python27au let's take it from the top. Stalin saw the danger his Nation faced from foreign invasion and Conquest. He understood that his nation was weak and backwards and could not fend off Invasion, placing its people in the position being brutalized and killed. to place his people in a position of never being at the mercy of foreign powers again, he forcibly industrialized the nation, forcibly educated is population, and forcibly built up its institutions. Did some people died in that process, absolutely, but more would have died in a Nazi victory over the Soviet units. More would have died from disease and famine that would afflict the country if it remained a peasant state. There is no Rapids transformation of a state and its people, that does not involve bloodshed, because those who benefit from the current chaos or who lack the sagacity to see the necessity of the transformation cannot be removed except by force. Perhaps the transformation will fail, but in trying you have lost nothing, because you are already suffering Mass death From famine, from disease, from foreign occupation, I know you may not notice these things as much, far more people in the world have died of famine and the 20th century even from Wars and genocide, far more people have died of disease, preventable diseases, then even famine, war, and genocide. The only alternative for a person then to see his Society reform itself, which always involve bloodshed, is to go live as a minority and someone else's Society. To be hated for one's mere presence to be a second or third class citizen , to be blamed for all the society's ills, to Beg like an animal for mere equality and justice, and short a fate worse than death. So, I have nothing but unmitigated praise for Stalin, I understand why he took the actions he took, and having a knowledge of his situation, can only admire his sagacity and vision. What he did for the Russian people, what he did for the peoples of Soviet Union, was more than a miracle, more than a Divine gift, it was an everlasting inheritance, and inheritance of being truly made human. Because, when you are a weak backward and pathetic people, begging for Aid or justice or equality, you are not seen as a human being, but merely an animal in the shape of a human being. Never again would the Russian people ever be subject to a foreign power, never again would the Russian people not to be the masters of their own destiny, never again would Russian people have to beg other people's for access to the products of modernity. And that makes it all worth while. P.S. no one who understands the absurdities of the feudal order under the Ancien Regime in France, or the scale of the reforms conducted by Napoleon, or the scale of development Unleashed by Napoleon's reforms and their impact on the rest of Europe, would ever question whether or not the Revolution was worth it. I recommend that you read Lord Acton's "expectations on the French Revolution".
5
@python27au if 5%, 10%, or 15% of the population or the source of the chaos, or the world field, the regressive attitude, which are weakening our society, preventing the reforms that are necessary or standing in the way , then they must be eliminated. Ask your particular questions, your numbers are off considerably. 10 million people died in the transformation of the Soviet Union, six million of those were for the famine after collectivization. After the Bolshevik Revolution, the peasantry for the first time we're able to own their own land, as opposed to a few aristocratic landholders. well a few peasants called kulaks became relatively prosperous, this is still largely peasant agriculture. more over there was still famine in the country as pleasant Farmers would often horde grains to try to get the price to rise before they sell . Also, You cannot industrialize until you have first move to agro-industry, because if 90% of your population is needed just to grow food, you will not have any persons available for industry. Stalin launched a massive agro-industry program called collectivization, the peasantry in revolt often slaughtered their livestock or engaged other acts of sabotage. Many of these people were rounded up and sent to gulags. however the family was caused by a major Act of resistance in which newly collected by Farmers refused to produce more food than what they needed for themselves despite being warned that they had to meet minimum quotas because food was needed to feed the cities. When the farmers refused to produce enough food, for two years in a row Stalin took The grain anyway to feed the new industrial workers in the cities, causing famine in the countryside, But after those two years the peasantry had been broken, and there was a record harvest. if you think Stalin is a monster for doing that, you should read the history of the enclosure movement in the United Kingdom. Also in relation to that, read about the black Act and the Duchess of Sutherland, and Highland clearance. As a percentage of the population, with regard to the level of privation endured with regard to the level of brutality, Stalin's period Of transformation from peasant to agro-industry was one of the least terrible in history. As for the other four million people, you have two distinct groups. First you have to consider people within the party apparatus who or either resistant to the program of industrialization, saboteurs are wish for it to slow down. As I mentioned previously there were those who outright refused to implement the orders given to them and even threatens others who were following orders. Not to mention that there were large numbers of former czarist officials who claimed an inability to carry out the functions, but upon inspection by new communist cadre were found to be active saboteurs. This was also an issue in the military, 75% of the officers in the Red Army had been officers in the czarist Army and many had questionable loyalty. You may doubt the efficacy of Stalin's approach here, however with each Purge, with each re-examination of loyalties of the party structure, the implementation of government policy became better, the government became more efficient, and results improved. That accounts for about 2 million people. As for the remaining two million people, these are your former kulak saboteurs, criminal class, gangsters, and other derelicts. Yes, and Stalin's Soviet Union if you did not show up to work or meet minimum quotas, you could be sent to a gulag. It's important to understand that the Stalin is attempting 100 Year transformation in under 15 years, and peasants hate to work, particularly to work routinized labor by the clock. Furthermore, the Ford education policies added to the number of people who had to be sent to gulags because they refuse to undergo education without heavy Corersion. However, flying in the face of the genetic IQ theory of ability and genius, many of those who would be sent it to the Gulag or otherwise beaten in to completing their education would go on to make major contributions to Soviet science. That was the price paid by Russians from modernity. Wss it a bigger price than other people's, no in manu regards it was a much smaller price, but it was paid over a much shorter period Of time. As one Gulag Camp Survivor said, being released only in 1953 on the death of Stalin, and being asked if he hated Stalin for what he did, he said" no, he took us out of the darkness of non-existence, shaped us into a polity, made us a world power, and show the world that we too are human beings". If you don't understand what that is about, you have to understand how Slavic peoples were viewed before Stalin industrialized them, before their victory in World War II. Reinhard heydrich said " if I ever met a slav worthy enough to sit at the same table as me, I would have him shot". Just read what Himmler had to say about Slavic people. read the Nazis General plan for the east as well. When you understand these things you understand how asinine your idea that Stalin should have simply country wallow in backwardness and ignorance and suffer occupation by people who thought of them as animals because a portion of the population would die, because some people get their feelings hurt, because people wouldn't have freedom or any of the other stupid reasons people give.
5
@nexiuma8538 I'm not even a communist, but I have been to enough third world hellh*les to know that the most important thing to achieve is industrialization and division of labor, you can always undergo privatization later.
5
Boog do all the Talking you want, but because of what Stalin did you bloodthirsty despots in the west will never be able to impose your will on Russia.
5
@CitsVariants most of those countries did not exist prior to the USSR, they were traded in 1921 as part of the Federation process, all of them had existed as part of the Russian Empire. Even Poland prior to World War 1 and Finland part of the Russian Revolution were all a part of the Russian Empire. Ironically, Soviet Union was the scaled-down rump state of the Russian Empire.
5
@hughmungus1767 first of all you are an idiot. Stalin said in 1931 that Germany was going to invade the country , that was his justification for the rapid industrialization of the nation. He was never caught by surprise. He did not know the dates of Hitler's Invasion, and did not believe British intelligence reports about it. Lastly, Stalin purged the Red Army because 75% of the officer had been officers under the Czar, and he did not trust their loyalty, as he knew that war was coming, that was a wise decision.
5
@hysop9 you're quoting a Wikipedia article to me? Stalin did not randomly kill people, despite what western propaganda might tell you. Stalin wisely saw the threat of invasion and enslavement of his people, and prepared them for the threat through a massive program of industrialization, and capacity building. The benefits the labor extracted from Soviet people went back to the Soviet people and Stalin took a nation of ignorant superstitious peasants and made them a superpower. If you cannot understand why Stalin is respected and revered, it's because you have the mind of a child.
5
@gigachad-gx9vu Denmark was an absolute regime until 1848. Moreover, Denmark was heavily involved in slave trading operating several outpost on the coast of Africa, operated several outposts and attempted to colonize India, and maintained slave based Plantation agriculture in its colony in the West Indies, later sold to the US.
4
@CitsVariants so are you a child or something? Have you actually been to the third world, do you understand what it means to live in a society which is completely backwards and where you have zero opportunities for modernity? Do understand what it is like to live as a hated minority in someone else's Society only to get a glimpse of modernity? These liberal platitudes and talking points may sound good but when your back is against the wall and the choice is degradation and slavery or Force modernization, they fall by the wayside, because you know much larger numbers of people will die and for much longer If you fall victim to a foreign occupiers.
4
@CitsVariants are you a child, are you completely uneducated in history? All of the states of Eastern Europe were extremely unstable with large populations of minorities. Romania, hungry, Bulgaria, Moldova, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland all had large populations of minorities unhappy with being included in those States, just look up population transfer in Europe.
4
@reservoirfrogs2177 LOL, you have the intellect of flea. Of course Modernization began before Stalin, but it had not reached Russia before Stalin modernized Russia. All that Russia has, all that Russia has achieved is because of Stalin.
4
@hysop9 oh yes, when America does it, it was right, everyone was guilty! sarcasm off
4
Aside from the famine, the deaths during the purges where not just "random killings", but execution for actual crimes like sabotage and treason. Even outside observers noted that, but deep research of the subject will shock the reader at the willfulness of many official in attempting to shriek the new rules. And one particular case the entire judiciary of Belarus were arrested tried and shot when it came to Moscow detention that they or refusing to enforce criminal for worker absenteeism during the Industrial Drive, even threatening to arrest and jail prosecutors who brought the cases.
3
@python27au whether or not a goal is is Worthy or is justification for the actions taken in its service is subjective. However all persons, unless they suffered some sort of neurological disorder, whether correctly or in error, engage means for a desired end.
3
@python27au then we would die anyway, from diseases, from famine, from foreign occupation, but at least we tried.
3
@python27au Germany was in quite a different situation, and it's biggest Transformations came not after the reunification of 1871, but during the monarchy of Frederick the Great. Frederick the great instituted a much slower transformation from present economic to a division of labor economy. Still nine percent of the Prussian population died during his Wars of expansion and his breakdown of the feudal order. As for the Nazis, although they're demonized they were no worse than the European Empire , they just killed white people. Ironically for all the neo-nazis out there, it was the damage caused by the Nazis , the cost of the war, and their alliance with Japan that ended white world domination.
3
@python27au again, you're talking about different situations. We were speaking of the Soviet Union. East Germany Russia's revenge on Germans so what they suffered in the war. It was a Crown Jewel and Russian Empire in Eastern Europe, because it represented the conquest of an arch enemy who brutalized them, and moreover the material evidence that they had surpassed the greatest rival. As for Poland, niether the Germans nor Russians like Poles, but it goes back to Poles, well I don't want to be censored, so I'll just say being Poles. there's a reason why despite having a active Neo-Nazi movement, their Embassy in London hosting known neo-nazis, poles are still the single largest group targeted for racial violence in the United Kingdom.
3
Boog blah, blah, blah, soon enough to world will be rid of the western Menace.
3
@gigachad-gx9vu for a guy named Mussolini, if you have the gall to call into question Stalin method? Stalin lifted the Slavic peoples out of the darkness of degradation and made them a superpower, saving them from enslavement from your pal Hitler. If you think the people of the Soviet Union were any more easily manipulated some people of the Western World, clearly you have never research the subject. I believe the author of Gulag archipelago, upon actually visiting the West, was shocked by the gullibility of its people and commented "never before had I ever seen a civilization which lost the will to live". It is easy to claim that forced industrialization is not the way to modernize a nation when you sit comfortably in the Western World long after the brutality necessary to create it has passed. Moreover most of that suffering was born out on non-western peoples who never saw one drop of benefits from the suffering they endured. When a people must face foreign aggression, famine, disease, natural disaster, slavery and occupation, they are willing to, and must be willing to, do anything they have to to secure for themselves and their posterity equal ranking among the people's of the world, and not be subjected conqured defeated people or minorities living in other people's societies begging for justice and equality.
3
@gigachad-gx9vu name one that was industrialize without force or Bloodshed. And you don't get to exempt genocide, slavery, imperialism, or colonialism.
3
@gigachad-gx9vu I'm not a communist but communism is not really based on the suppression of intellectual ideas. It's an alternative way of organizing Society to that of private property and private ownership of the means of production, but even a capitalist Society suppressive certain ways of life. For example, in a capitalist Society cannot live a nomadic herdsmen lifestyle, or a subsistence lifestyle due to property taxes.
3
@CitsVariants do you have as much fire for people whose grandparents suffered forced labor or famine under British rule? Do you have as much fire for people whose great-grandmothers were slaves under American rule or suffered Jim Crow? Do you have as much fire for people whose grandparents had their hands amputated under Belgian rule? Do you get angry when people defend those regime?
3
@CitsVariants they were more like ethnic groups based on religious and linguistic commonality, however the centuries of rule within the Russian Empire meant that there were large populations of other ethnic groups within their territorial borders making a Western style ethno-linguistic State extremely difficult and causing those states to be extremely unstable. Those matters will not be sorted out until after World War II with forced population transfers.
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@CitsVariants Slavic peoples were not able to assert themselves and modernity until stalling came and lifted them out of degradation and made them a superpower. It seems to me that you have an anti-semitic revisionist history and buy it against the Communist Party if you have ever known any juice from the former USSR, while it was better than the time of the Czar, Jews in Russia were viewed as an treated as minorities.
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@gigachad-gx9vu Norway was a part of Denmark until 1814. Also, Norway is a petroleum State like any other with petroleum and petroleum derivative constituting 90% of their exports.
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@rockytopbritt he did not believe intelligence reports of the date of Hitler invasion as they were passed from MI6 whom he did not trust. However, the Soviet Union was invaded in exactly 10 years as he had warned in his speech announcing the plan and reason for rapid industrialization. Despite everything he did to prepare his people for invasion, all the thing the West claimed where immoral and for which if he had not done them his country would have been destroyed, he was still overwhelmed by the scale and brutality of the Nazi invasion. However, Stalin was trained as a priest, so when he had no other hope he turned to faith. He opened the churches, sent out the priest, and order Stalingrad to be defended to the death. Khrushchev claimed he order the cabinet to sing Psalms. In what many thought was a sign of complete insanity he told his staff to have Our Lady of Novograd paraded through Stalingrad and that God had assured victory. When he was told to flee Moscow because of Nazi advances he refused ordering it to be defended to the death as well. On the day of the scheduled Nazi air raid of Moscow, Stalin took his staff to see the overcast sky and commented "see, even God is own are side". The day after Our Lady of Novograd was paraded through the streets of Stalingrad, Soviet troops broke the Nazi lines and drove the Germans into retreat.
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@CitsVariants run along now. Take your hatred for Russia, and your pathetic lap dog love for the West with you. Don't hate the Russians because they had stolen and are now masters of Their Own Destiny and not Pawns of the West begging for their assistance like you and your people. Like the Chinese today, the Russians did what James Brown says, they paid the cost to be the boss. They endured what they had to endure in order to become a superpower so unlike you they don't need the West to save them. They are masters of their own destiny.
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@CitsVariants run along now. Russia is the master of its own destiny, no sanctions can break it, Russia makes its own Planes, Trains, automobiles, Rockets, satellite, microchip. Not to mention, thanks to the stupidity of American sanctions and Wars abroad, Russia is now the world's largest supplier of petroleum and petroleum products, rivaled only by Saudi Arabia, but there are not enough producers Beyond Russian to supply so if given the choice between sanctioning Russia or cutting off the United States, the world is forced to cut off the United States.
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@DD-qw4fz the Soviets signed the Soviet German non-aggression pact as a means to buy time to strengthen some cells internally. As early as 1931 Stalin was saying that Germany was going to invade the Soviet Union, that was his justification for the mass industrialization program. The Soviets were under No Illusion about the Nazis or their intentions for Slavic peoples. Poland, at least the eastern part, had until the end of world war one been a part of the Russian Empire, and the the Soviet Union, like Russia Today, had no defensive boundaries west of the urals, hence why Russia is so antagonized by the idea of enemy aligned regimes on their border. It is the West, particularly United States, who whitewash and try to delude the world about the true nature World War II the role of the Soviet Union. If we're going to have a open and impartial examination of the nature of the regime that fought in World War II, the Soviet Union is far from the most guilty when we consider the great crimes of European Empire.
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@DD-qw4fz if Stalin didn't care about Slavic peoples , why didn't he sell them out? Why didn't he just take the money and run? Why did he bother to industrialize the country? Forced labor programs the massive industrial programs, those were not to line his pocket or to build himself palaces, those were to build up the infrastructure and Manufacturing capabilities of the nation. It is sad that you are such a bootlicker and delusional stooge for the West that you cannot see or comprehend that. Let me guess, you're one of those ukrainians from the western part of the country hoping that the Germans will be your Volk?
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@stevenlyons1288 first of all the European Union was not formed until the early 1990s. You are talking about the European economic community, and it started out as a very limited trade Association, beginning with coal and steel. The process of decolonization began in 1947 when the British gave up control over the Indian subcontinent.
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@reservoirfrogs2177 I laid out a detailed historical analysis both of the pros and cons of stalinist industrialization, as well as a comparison of the cost of modernization for other societies. Simply because you are ignorant of the history of the West, and that they have whitewashed the far greater amount of blood they spilled to achieve modernization, does not mean my analysis is incorrect. The problem is that you are a naive little child, who lives in a fantasy in which challenges and great accomplishments can be achieved with pretty please and candy. You need to grow up.
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@reservoirfrogs2177 oh, I'm on the right side of History, since Stalin's industrialization did prevent the Nazis from successfully invading and enslaving his nation, and made them a world power. What a childish mind like yours doesn't understand, is the difference between history and naive child like delusions, in which case yes I'm on the wrong side of your child like delusion.
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@reservoirfrogs2177 Okay so you're just ignorant of history and facts and there's no real point in speaking to you. Not even the critics of Stalin in the Soviet Union would try to make such an absurd claim as to say that it had to modernize prior to stalinist industrialization.
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@letosvet1 I've already addressed these point before, but let me ask you this question once again. What was going to happen if Stalin did not industrialize the Soviet Union and the Nazis conquered it? Do you think it was going to be rainbows and sunshine? You think like a child who has no understanding of the real world. There are no perfect choices, the choices were industrialization or death.
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@harwinkle1440 dummy, these people stupidity and refusal to take advantage of the opportunities presented to them, or directly placing their lives and wives of their countrymen in danger by weakening the nation, preventing it industrialization, and leaving it open to True slavery in subjugation at the hands of Nazis. The very fact you cannot make a distinction between a great man like Stalin, and a man who conquered and enslaved other people for the benefit of his people like Hitler, speaks to your stupidity and arrogance as a white Westerner.
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@CitsVariants so you're a little kid then correct? The United States spends more on its military than it does on on education and Public Health Care. Not to mention, the accusation against Putin is that he is that he is stealing money, not that she is Miss sending public money on other priorities. Which is a lie, if he really were the kleptocrats they accuse him of being, they would love him, because Russia would be weak and Easily manipulated, instead he is using the funds to build up Russia's military capabilities and the capacity of the state. Also, you really need to learn the difference between nominal at exchange rate, and GDP at purchasing power parity.
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@CitsVariants lol. I'm not even a communist, but unlike you, I know how the real world works.
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@CitsVariants run along now
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@DD-qw4fz "Whether nations live in prosperity or starve to death interests me only in so far as we need them as slaves ...... Whether ten thousand Russian females fall down from exhaustion while digging an anti-tank ditch interests me only in so far as the anti-tank ditch for Germany is finished. We shall never be tough and heartless where it is not necessary, that is clear. We, Germans, who are the only people in the world who have a decent attitude towards animals, will also assume a decent attitude towards these human animals. But it is a crime against our blood to worry about them and give them ideals, thus causing our sons and grandsons to have a more difficult time with them. When somebody comes up to me and says: 'I cannot dig the anti-tank ditch with women and children, it is inhuman, for it would kill them,' then I have to say: 'You are the murderer of your own blood, because if the anti-tank ditch is not dug German soldiers will die, and they are the sons of German mothers. They are our own blood....' Our concern, our duty, is our people and our blood. We can be indifferent to everything..I wish the S.S. to adopt this attitude towards the problem of all foreign, non-Germanic peoples, especially Russians...." "The Slav is never able to build anything himself. In the long run, he's not capable of it. I'll come back to this later. With the exception of a few phenomena produced by Asia every couple of centuries, through that mixture of two heredities which may be fortunate for Asia but is unfortunate for us Europeans — with the exception, therefore, of an Attilla, a Ghenghis Khan, a Tamerlaine, a Lenin, a Stalin — the mixed race of the Slavs is based on a sub-race with a few drops of blood of our blood, blood of a leading race; the Slav is unable to control himself and create order. He is able to argue, able to debate, able to disintegrate, able to offer resistance against every authority and to revolt. But these human shoddy goods are just as incapable of maintaining order today as they were 700 or 800 years ago, when they called in the Varangians, when they called in the Ruriks" - Himmler These are the words ofvyour enemy, the thoughts of the people who would have conquered and enslaved you if not for the foresight and actions of Stalin. It is sad you are so brainwashed that you have learned to hate your history and your greatest leaders. Do the French hate Napoleon, more Frenchman died in his wars ( as a percentage of population)than Soviets under Stalin, but he is celebrated.
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@reservoirfrogs2177 poor, poor, ignorant little child. When do you plan to grow up, give up your childish fantasies, and live within the world that is? Because only a child lives in the fantasy of a perfect world, devoid of the reality of consequences. You would have preferred that Russia remained backward and rural, full of subsistent peasant farmers , so that they could have been conquered and enslaved by Nazis ... all for the delusion of freedom. You are truly pathetic.
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@150qwertyu LoL. FOOL
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@letosvet1 you sir are a fool par exsalonce, but if you would like to do some research you would know that Stalin launched Mass industrialization in 1931, and spoke of the danger of invasion. It was a commonly held belief among the leaders of the world at the end of World War 1, that Germany would rearm and the war will be fought a generation later. I don't have time for your nonsense.
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@letosvet1 whatever fairytale world you live in, it is divorced from reality. What Stalin did made the Soviet people a great power, brought them in to modernity, and forever made them stand in the world as equals. No matter how much you try to lie and distort this man achievement , no matter how many whatever you postulate, you cannot undo what he achieved.
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@letosvet1 LOL. You are a sad Western stooge. Russia is one of only three nations with a global satellite navigation system, has the most developed space capabilites, and can manufacture all its on hi-tech equipment.... Just stop. You can hate what Stalin had to do, but you cannot claim he did not succeed.
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@letosvet1 LoL. I have one, thats why I dont have a childlike mind like yours. I live in the real world, understand the choices with which we are faced, so I forever will admire Stalin and what he did for his people. You have no idea what it is to have to live as a minority in someone else soceity just to get a taste of modernity.
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@harwinkle1440 again, you're shockingly naive and simple-minded. Ukraine was one of the heartlands of Soviet industrialization, many ukrainians, higher percentage the most ethnic groups, received education under Stalin this industrialization and Rose into to the senior ranks of the scientific and Engineering Corp. The famine that affected the Soviet Union was a result of the switch from peasant subsistence agriculture, to industrialized agriculture. As I've already pointed out this is a precondition for industrialization, as peasant agriculture requires 90 to 95% of the population involved in agriculture just to feed itself, and such a high percentage of the population in agriculture, prevents their employment in higher levels of economic activity, namely industrialization. When Stalin ordered collectivization, with the use of mechanized farming equipment and fertilizer, he gave the peasants forewarning that there were quotas for production, which they could easily meet with the new equipment. The Peasants, being peasants, chose instead to reduce their actual work output, even with sufficient the new equipment, and simply produce enough food for themselves. Stalin, rather than let the City starve in cause a collapse industrialization, continue to expropriate grain as per the previously stated quotas, for two years there was famine, finally the peasantry understood the situation, and after three years there was a record Harvest. The switch to Industrial agriculture meant that the Soviet Union would only experience, after the Nazi invasion, and never again and its history after that. If you think that Ukraine did not benefit from stalinist industrialization you are just a complete and utter moron. Ukrainians went from being a backward subsistence peasant people, to being as a part of the Soviet Union, among the most advanced industrialized peoples in the world.
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@geekypleer1202 what a blind bigoted blind little man you are. It doesn't matter if you admire Joseph Stalin or not, his accomplishments were standing for all of history. Is the greatest story of Hope in human history, to take a nation of peasants and in one generation make them masters of their own destiny.
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@geekypleer1202 oh simple child, your ignorance of history and simple-minded naivety is entertaining. If you not understand what the standing capability of the Slavic Peoples were before Stalin, and how he lifted them from degradation to be Masters in the world, you do not understand the concept of dignity.
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@dinamosflams yes, in general Americans have a very simplistic, naive childlike, worldview. They have no understanding of history or context.
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@blackthorn7298 how do you know many more were guilty? Have you bothered to research the crimes for which the majority or prosecuted, or the standards of evidence and procedure by which they were convicted? It's very easy to dismiss the Injustice of your own nation and try to condemn other nations for engaging in method which which you disagrees.
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Stalin was the greatest builder of civilization in the last 1000 years and the Soviet won WWII on their on without the Western allies, even Churchill admitted that. When the allies had barley reached Paris, the Soviets where at Germany"s Eastern border.
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@Drengade if you believe that, you are a jingoistic idiot. Even the monster Churchill admitted the Red army won the war.
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@Drengade Stalin knew that Hitler was going to break his Pact , he expected his Nation to be invaded that was the point of his massive drive for industrialization and why he located so much heavy industry east of the urals. Hitler was in no position to win a war against the European Colonial Empires without access to the natural resources of the Soviet Union, he simply could not sort things out in the West First. You obviously are shockingly ignorant of the realities of the geopolitical world before and during the second World War.
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@Drengade Churchill was indeed a monster, no different from Hitler, but at least Hitler could claim to be a self-made man. Churchill oversaw a global empire built on the exploitation and forced slave labor of conquered people's for the enrichment and aggrandizement of their conquerors. He is guilty of crimes of extermination by forced labor, Mass genocide through starvation, and direct extermination by military forces. The only thing that separates Hitler from Churchill, is that Hitler killed white people, Churchill killed black and brown people. So in the west's book, Churchill was a hero and Hitler as a monster. however for the rest of us, we don't see any distinction between these two men, at least those of us who are not brainwashed by Western propaganda.
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@Drengade trying to make excuses for the blood-soaked crime of your ancestors Empire, don't try to BS me. Let's get a few things straight, for its entirety the British Empire practiced various levels of racial segregation, applied separate sets of laws to whites and non-whites, barred non-whites from holding most offices in positions of authority in government, encourage confiscation of native land for the benefits of white Proprietors, barred non-whites from obtaining private title to formerly native lands, and subjected Africans and its Empire to forced labor for the benefit of the state or for private white Proprietors of estates. Not to mention barring non-white from entering certain professional field inorder to protect white labor. The Bengali famine was not the first famine to befall British India, there were many who perished under the callousness of British rule in India, but Churchill was the cause of the Bengali famine. Just as he would oversee the death of 1 million Kenyans in his vain attempt to put down the Mau Mau Rebellion, Churchill was unbothered by those death. He ran a global Empire just as evil as the Nazi Empire only of a longer duration. As I said the only thing that separates Hitler from Churchill, is that Hitler killed white people.
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@Drengade once again your facts are considerably off because more people died in World War one then died in World War II. I would hardly think the Kenyans would regard their country as that of Churchill's and that he had any rights whatsoever try to put down a popular Insurrection against brutal Colonial occupation. Not to mention 1 million dead is hardly obscure Colonial Rebellion , but of course those are black lives, so I'm sure you're not too bothered by that. You can make all the excuse you want, those who lift your nation's depraved Behavior know it's true nature and have told their tails to their descendants. You cannot inherit an asset, yet be free from the liabilities. If you choose to be proud of your country's Empire, then you had better bear the sins for the crimes committed to create it. Churchill, Roosevelt, Hitler, Franco, de Gaulle all the same man just with different faces.
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@Drengade excuses, excuses! And for the record, no African society practiced human sacrifice. Allegedly it was said to take place in some forms of voodoo, but it was never a state sanctioned Public Act. You may be referring to the annual custom of the Dahomey, but that was not human sacrifice that was an annual legislative Festival in which all criminals sentenced to death for the year were executed on that day, rather than a throughout the year. The British Empire destroyed and mutilated every society in which it came in contact, until those societies, like the Chinese, purged every element of colonial filth from their society, they cannot move forward.
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@Drengade first off, you cannot compare a culture that was destroyed several centuries ago to a modern society and then claim its failings justify its destruction. Britain was still burning witches well into the age Colonial expansion with that have been justification for its conquest by societies which is not practice such superstition? Not to mention, that many cultures have made substantial leaps in quite compressed time periods, namely South Korea. Secondly, it's very rich for a man who defends the blood-soaked crimes of the British Empire, which were undertaken solely for the enslavement of other peoples for the enrichment of Britain, to call into question the government China. The CCP has lifted more people out of poverty than any other government in history, and has done what has been necessary to see its people thrive. It's very easy to be free in Liberal when you can beat, torture, and exploit other people abroad in order to provide subsidies and comfort to your people at home, but when people have to build up their Nation by the sweat of their own brow,not by exploitation of others, are merely distractions which encumber the Nations development. We see that most clearly in comparing India and China. No matter what the West claims about human rights, the people of China understand where they were and where they are today, and that they are on the verge of passing the entirety of Western Civilization as the dominant power on Earth. P.S. executing War prisoners is still not human sacrifice unless the executions are carried out for religious purposes.
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@Drengade oh yes, the old "genetic IQ argument", funny that is not what people said about Koreans in the 1960s. All of South Korea's development is due to the dictatorship of Park Chung Hee and he stated openly "if I had listened to Western experts I would have achieved nothing". I find it bizarre that an apologist for Empire built on slavery and exploitation, to DARE open his mouth to condemn child labor in China. Your jingoistic dismissal of China will do nothing save your country from being dominates by them. Stalin built one of the greatest civilizations in history, and lifted his people from poverty, you are in no position to criticize. All of their labor went to enrich and build their society, not to Aristocrat back in a conquering country.
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@Drengade every civilization borrow technology from another, if I recall correctly Western civilization's uses Arabic numerals. Korea's use of Western technology by no means makes it Western. The Ideological foundations of the Korean state and its advancements are overwhelmingly Korean, with a thin veneer of Western democracy forced upon it by its America ally. Clear from your statements that you have never actually been to China or at least have not been in the last 10 years, because your description of China and its standard of living is absurdly inaccurate. Ask for Britain ending child labor, it is easy to celebrate the end of child labor once you have already moved past that point and have intensified your exploitation and brutalization of your subject peoples in order to make the life of your own people more comfortable. Child labor, is a unavoidable step in the process of industrialization. As for the rest of your nonsense I've already addressed those issues in other post.
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@Drengade okay you're just talking nonsense, anyone who's actually been to China knows that the country is pretty well-developed across all areas. While there may be air pollution, the country is building nuclear and natural gas power plant to address it. The country is no more polluted than American the 1970s, to say when American was not a complete Leach on the world and actually produce things with an industrial base. are you like a teenager or something? Anyone who's ever dealt with a Korean Corporation understands that the corporate culture is nothing like America and is built on Confucian ideas.
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@Drengade p.s. China is already moved past the point of child labor, and did so about 10 years ago. So it's clear you have never actually been to China. Moreover, no matter how much you hate it, no matter how much you try to lie, the Soviet Union was a technological powerhouse, and had Superior technological abilities to all of Europe, Rivaled only by the United States. Russia Today is still a Powerhouse in its self and can never be subjected to foreign powers because of what Stalin did.
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@Drengade again, your clearly have never been to China and are unaware of it's actual standard of living. Yes, child labor is fine during the transition. In You should also take the time to learn the difference between nominal GDP and GDP purchasing power parity. Once again, neither Japan or South Korea have anything but a thin thin veneer of Western culture as part of their society. No matter what lies you make up, which I have addressed in other points, you can never the greatest accomplishment of the Soviet Union.
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@Drengade I keep telling you to read my OTHER post. As for the USER, first to put up a satellite, first in space; don't try to lie about their accomplishments.
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@Drengade see my replies to python27au
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@tylernilson7021 I suppose. However, if you research the matter, even American and European technical expert hired by the Soviet government complained about wrecking and sabotage by workers. Peasants forced into working in a regimented system, that is working by the clock for a fixed number of hour with fixed breaks, cause quite a bit of resentment. They really have to be forced. Henry Ford once built a town in the 1910s in Brazil, with an 8 hour workday and a $5 a day wage (40× nationalaverage; the peasants works burned the town down twice.
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@tylernilson7021 Yeah, that was the price Russia paid for modernity and to be a superpower. Unlike with the West, and America in particular, at least those who paid the price reaped the benefits.
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@python27au yep.
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@letosvet1 Russia is still a great power with full technological capabilities in the first order, it still has an educated population, and still not subject to foregin interference....seem pretty permanent.
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@letosvet1 you're truly sad. I hope you grow up.
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@150qwertyu im not a communist, I simply appreciate progress however and whenever it comes. I have addressed all your illogical arguments in my previous post, you are arguing feelings.
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@harwinkle1440 go back and read the thread, I addressed this issue over and over again. You seem to be extremely simple minded abs naive. I found it bizarre that you cannot distinguish between a system which forces people into self-improvement, even against their will, where the fruits of that Improvement go to them, and a system of slavery. Not to mention, without stalinist industrialization, the Slavic peoples would have been conquered and actually enslaved by Nazis.
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@captainsponge7825 firstly, I'm not a communist. Secondly oh, you people claim that the USSR with some sort of horrible aberration Behavior caused by communism, nothing could be further from the truth the ussr's record it's considerably more came to that of the West. Human history human governance involves the use of force and trade-offs, the USSR seem to have struck a I rather good balance considering the difficulties they faced. I am fair and objective in my assessment of History, so I won't BS and claim the West is somehow objectively good and the Communist regimes were objectively bad, the facts don't stand up to that treatment. Regarding the treatment of people within their societies, the Communist regimes were fairer than the regime's of the Westend existed by the impetus of their own effort rather than from exploitation of minority groups, even if the output of that was less affluent than what the West achieved from exploitation.
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@geekypleer1202 not really, proportional deaths as a percentage of the population remain quite steady no matter what socio-political system you have when you seek to make major civilzational reforms. If you want to understand loss on a astronomical scale, that no one really talks about, Napoleon cost France 17% of the male population, and about 11% of the male population of Europe as a whole. However, understand that it was Napoleon's conquest of Europe that Stripped Away the final vestiges of feudalism across all of Western Europe, excluding Spain and Portugal who fought vehemently to retain it and reimplemented after Napoleon's defeat, introduced into most of Europe for the first time civil liberties, equality before the law, trial before courts, actual procedural management of government, Etc.
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@iklo7476 that depends on what you mean by liberal, social and societal context is key to its meaning. Communist regimes were, and are, generally extremely socially conservative. The former East German regime did not even allow single mothers to keep children born out of wedlock, the secret police would frequently take the children and place them with traditional families. Economic egalitarianism is not per se liberal, or left-wing, this is better understood in Europe where there is a tradition of Christian social Democrats, and frankly clerical fascism. Communism and Marxist views being wrapped up in a socially liberal ideology is a feature of a post 1960s ideological Trend called Neo Marxism, it's not really a feature of Orthodox Marxism. The only things you get close to advocating the positions that radical leftist Marxist in the west take, on social issues, is in Vladimir Lenin's "what is to be done", and he expresses those views as tools to break down a society, not to build it up or keep it just. Even from an economic standpoint, the traditional communist regimes, did operate a system of near economic egalitarianism, but there were significant work requirements, no one just got free money for existing unless you were in fact completely disabled. Not to mention in extreme focus on industrialization and National autarky. The type of Bonanza giveaway social spending you see in black and brown countries that adopt Marxism is a feature of the neo-marxist ideology, and that has more to do with the corruption of the mind produced by colonialism than anything actually propagated by Marxism. If you mean liberal in the sense of having a pluralistic society in which people are generally free to express the views they wish and organize their lives as they choose, obviously that is not Marxism. While some communist regimes allowed ethnic minorities to maintain their identities, within said ethnic group and their territorial area, the same top-down system of organization applied, there was no individual liberalism.
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@geekypleer1202 trust me, I have forgotten more than you have ever known in your entire lifetime. Obviously, I have anyone can observe from you, knowledge does not equal wisdom. I hope one day you can come to understand the meaning of dignity, and the amazing accomplishments Stalin achieved for the Slavic peoples, an example here set for the rest of the world.
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@miketheamazing1342 okay, I realized the thread is over 300 comments, but I've already address to delusions like your own. Not only do I have a thorough understanding of history, but I have gone through all of the statistical details of Russia in the nineteenth and early Twentieth Century. Your claim that Russia was going to progress into a developed Nation regardless of the actions of the communist is patently false, it's absurd, not even the most aggressive enemies of the Marxist regime make that claim with any seriousness. The Russian Empire at the dawn of the twentieth century was a power merely by numbers, and faced collapse if it had to mobilize its troops before Harvest. There was no area in which the Russian Empire could compete with the industrialized nations of Europe, or even Japan as it was defeated in the russo-japanese war. While serfdom was abolished in 1860, there was no land reform or enclosure movement equivalent to that which Great Britain saw in the 17th to 18th century. The aristocratic class lorded over the peasant population of the Russian Empire, Still owning the majority of land, and still operating their Farms on traditional rather than on rational and for-profit basis. While literacy rates at did increase in the Russian Empire, to about 20%, this was nowhere near sufficient to support an industrial economy, not to mention that the number of University graduates was abysmal constituting less than 1% of the population, and having very few actual technical graduated again never reaching more than about 3%. You're free to check these numbers yourself, few do because they do not like the answer. Existence is not present with happy simplistic choices. The choice for Russia was a man like Stalin and his plan for industrialization, or Conquest and submission to its foreign enemies. As I have already said, unless your goal is a Nazi victory in World War II, you cannot reasonably criticize Stalin's actions, because the level of industrialization which was required to defeat the Nazis would not have been possible on any other basic, especially once you leave the world of fantasy and realize the actual Global political and economic situation leading up to the war. You can lament all you like about the actions Stalin was forced to take, the price paid by Russian for industrialization and National sovereignty, however you cannot claim that it was in vain or that there was really another option other than death and subjugation to foreigners.
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@Wadzillia first off the Nazis killed closer to twenty million Russians, not 5 million. Stalin was working with the hand dealt him. As Stalin predicted in 1931, the Soviet Union was going to be invaded in 10 years, The Pact with the Nazis was simply to buy time to continue the program of industrialization and to root out traitors. Remember, the Soviet Union has no defensible borders until you reach the Ural Mountains, which are themselves over 1,500 km into Russian territory. So the annexation of Eastern Poland, which had belong to the Russian Empire prior to World War 1, gave the Soviets extra space to absorb a Nazi attack. It gave them two extra years to continue the program of industrialization, and most critically industrialization beyond the Ural Mountains. Lastly, and gave them extra time to root out the traitors within the officer Corps the military, Stalin shocked officers prior to the start of World War II precisely because the war was coming. 75% of the officers in the Red Army had been officers in the czarist Army, only switching sides when the Communists gained control of the Food Supplies. Any commander whose loyalty was in doubt had to be routed out before the Nazi attack. Although warnings came, they were through MI5, and Stalin did not trust them, so was somewhat caught off-guard as to the time of the attack, but as history shows us he was aware as early as 1931 that an attack was coming.
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@jleviathan9766 I call it like I see it. Argue the facts, not emotion; be objective , not subjective.
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@jleviathan9766 LOL, Ben Shapiro takes the exact opposite position as me.
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@AleksandrH92 You are an ungrateful and naive fool who lives in a childlike delusion.
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@ThoughtCrime there was no luck involved and Stalin's achievement, only hard work and vision. Rather than cry into his soup about the choices he faced, Stalin faced the world like a man and did what had to be done so that his nation and his people could not only survive but thrive. To face the world as it is, not as we wish it to be, is the sign of utmost mental maturity, something you lack. We don't get to choose between roses and candy, we must make do with the resources at hand and the choices before us. The road was hard and bitter, but the rewards we're great, and the consequences of inaction dire.
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@enreeekay2754 Dude, there do much nonsense in your post. 1. German V2 rockets did not leave the atmosphere. 2. Many nations lost tests pilots. 3. The Soviet block had a higher living standard than all of the non-white world until the 1970s, than the vast majority of the non-white until its dissolution. However, most importantly, the Soviet held their own as a superpower, not being subject to the West, something the non-White world is just achieving. In the end our choice in the real world is not between perfect and terrible, but terrible and awful. Don't try to gloat about the ease of choices your people had because the hard choices where made before you where born and borne by conquered and enslaved peoples. The program Stalin implemented was so that his people would not be among those who where conquered and enslaved by the West.
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@alexl6543 this discussion happened over 2 years ago, but I stand by everything I said. The more I study stalin, the more I respect and admire the man. The more I understand the difficulties of development, and the near impossibility of lifting a people from subsistence agricultural poverty into the ranks of great Powers within half a generation, the more the actions of Stalin become pragmatic and admirable.
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@alexl6543 and you think all those things happen in the four years after Stalin died because of policies after stalin? Quit bulls***ing and deal with reality, you may not like what Stalin did, you may not like his methods, but you cannot lie and say that they did not work and that his people did not benefit.
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@CeaerCeaer dude, you think like a child. Those were not crimes, those were the necessary actions in order to save his nation, country, and civilization. We do not get a choice in life between candy and cake, hard choices have to be made. A weakling like you would have had the people conquered by the German and enslaved for generations.
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@richardploss4494 LOL, sure.....
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@mittensandcoconut thank you. I would say first and foremost, read all the literature you can about Stalin's rule in the Soviet Union. Read between the lines, for all of their condemnation the facts speak for themselves. He industrialized the country, they never experienced to famine after his industrialization, they were a superpower and a peer competitor to the west. Without his actions they would never have survived the Nazi invasion. There is a very good 7 volume series on the industrialization of the Soviet Union by RW Davies if you want facts on the process of industrialization. It would also help if you had some knowledge of the failures of other nations to industrialize and the suffering they endure as a consequence, far greater than anything the Soviet people suffered to achieve industrialization. Also, knowledge of the process of Other Nations under which for industrialization, particularly the East Asian tigers. The process of industrialization in the west was so far in the past, and there was so much Colonial exploitation and plunder, that the pain is not fully recognized in the western Collective memory.
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@umar b obviously, the natives don't think it was worth it.
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@blackthorn7298 it is better to live a short life than a long life of meaninglessness.
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@watcherit1311 indeed he was https://newslanc.com/files/2015/06/saint_stalin2.jpg
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