Comments by "Nick" (@NicodemusT) on "Continuous Delivery" channel.

  1. While I don't always like Theo's takes, I respect that he codes live so you can see he's not just running from a perfectly repeatable script. I'm sorry, but this isn't really a real-world example. These are screenshots that you were comfortable posting. The majority of my feedback re: TDD on this channel is that you say "just do it", but have thus far not really shown how. Your video is an incomplete example of real-world testing. What I am finding is that the developers that keep telling me to do better rarely show their work, and humble developers are streaming their work and building a community.
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  2. I wish you cared about your logo as much as you care about testing. In graphic design world, you are a WordPress developer who writes all code in functions.php.
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  3. More "no real scotsman" content from the Karen of our industry
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  4. And nothing bad happens, then 1 day later the company gets bought out by another company and completely wipes all of the work, regardless of how well it was written.
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  5.  @ContinuousDelivery you should have run tests to make sure captions were considered. I can't believe you didn't have 100% test coverage! I've heard the excuses - "it's too hard to test on video", but it's just a skill issue.
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  6. I can't wait for the day when we cut the bloat in development. All of these reviews, process and testing every single thing are all viruses in the creative process. Programmers have forgotten that programming is often art. I wouldn't paint a single canvas if I had to endure creative review based on speculative feelings and vibes. The people who advocate for these things are followers, not innovators.
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  7. Better title: "17 Minute Cope Stream." This is a pretty disingenuous video, honestly. Saying "agile fails" doesn't mean anyone is advocating for the direct opposite approach. The report speaks about reality meeting agile's practices. The industry still refuses to acknowledge that 60-80% of projects fail to meet deadlines/expectations. How on earth would the development framework you work in be shielded from that? More and more, you speak from a bit of an ivory tower, that's hardly relatable to most of your viewers. That is the real naive nonsense.
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  8. It's not hard to do, it's hard to contextualize. I recently started a small vending machine project, and it involves code. I put that code on Github – does this code need to be done with TDD? Given that you are supposed to start with TDD, why would a small python project I built specifically as something to build with my kids need TDD? How much time do I set aside to try and test hardware – like a coin acceptor's inputs for different sizes coins – for a project that is meant for fun? The code is a small, almost insignificant aspect of the project. In other words, a lot of larger projects start from humble beginnings, and they often start in a single script, or CLI that just does something simple. In my experience, most projects don't begin with a thoroughly written requirements document – where beginning with TDD makes obvious sense. I think a lot of this TDD evangelism misses so many examples of cases where TDD from the start would seem pedantic and almost a bit narcissistic.
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  9. This channel is wild. One day calling TDD criticism laziness, next day highlighting the criticisms as if they are new and novel.
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  10. "I work principally as a consultant and less of a software developer" Yeah, no shit.
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  11.  @uome2k7  Do people purposely avoid acknowledging the huge gaping holes in this theocracy? A lot of bugs are unexpected user input/data. What you just wrote is that –– the source of the majority of bugs can't be tested in a way that prevents a bug. This is what my whole point is. What is the point in writing a test, if it doesn't cover the real world. As I mentioned before, video games written in the 80s/90s had very little bugs –– games made today have untold bugs. Guess what generation leaned on TDD? I think TDD is a crutch that people use to justify other bad practices. TDD isn't hard, it feels like meaningless data entry work – something to do on sleepy Mondays. I might as well be writing "A = 1, B = 2, C = 3". Front end user testing – I'll do that all day, every day because it's actually results-driven, and reflects what a user is actually doing.
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  12. 3 Continuous Delivery logos in one frame. Did you run your video edits through TDD, or did you just wing it like some kind of iMovie producer?
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  13. In time, you will be proven right. We're in the "we know better era" of application development. They just released a report that agile projects fall on their face 60% of the time. It'll just be a matter of time before we get a report showing almost no difference in TDD and non-TDD if the developers aren't literally brain dead.
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  14. When mocks resemble actual data, then TDD is worthwhile, otherwise, I’m just testing hope. This is the problem with these conversations that no one addresses. So far anyone going off about TDD never have to consider actual data. Saying if you don’t like TDD that means you must not know it - is in itself ignorance. TDD pretends that decades of software development doesn’t exist prior to its existence. Nintendo games in the 80s/90s were made with ZERO TDD, today games are made with TDD. Guess which generation has way more bugs? This is true in most computing. What if you were to say, videos created for YouTube needed to be encoded in a very specific way - to save power consumption and to improve the viewability for colour deficient people, you need to use a different colouring for your video. Or else, don’t publish videos. Would you have improved engagement? Yes. Would you have improved accessibility? Yes. Is everyone going to have the time to do that, even if it «  saved more time in the future »? No. With AI, we’re just hammering on an old rock here. Learning TDD is a dead art in short time.
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  15. Finally. Someone covering this truthfully. The CDPR fanboys/stans are Trump-level ridicuous right now.
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  16. I will write TDD if it is effective. A lot of the time, it is not – or not realistic in certain situations. BDD is way more effective, because it tracks with the actual user. If you want to downvote my comment, go for it – but there are plenty of people who are working with different project/work parameters where the idea of writing TDD is not "better" or "easier". In the intro to this video, it is said that there are no edge cases that exist where TDD couldn't be applied. Here's just a few examples where TDD is/was not applied, and the world did not fall apart: – Nearly every plugin within the WordPress Plugin repository – The first 3 versions of Twitter – The first ~5 versions of Spotify – The entire history of Adobe/Macromedia Flash – 90% of anything built in Unity/Unreal Engine (for proof of this, check out the latest code leaks for GTA5 and insomniac games) – Websites, small applications made at marketing-speed agencies I'm sure there are many more. My point is not that TDD is bad – just that the "always" mentality is steamrolled by the objective reality we live in.
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  17. You added TDD. Now you have two applications.
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  18.  @andrealaforgia7699  I've used it. Complex production code? Sure. The vast majority of projects are not that, though, and TDD becomes something you do just virtue signal to others that you "do TDD." Pacman and Call of Duty? Could you possibly pick a bigger straw man? Try programming an NES game in C, and compare that to building something in Unity or Unreal Engine. Christ. What a straw. This is a dishonest conversation to begin with. I've been to plenty of dev shops and tech companies. This idea that everyone uses TDD all the time is easily disproven by just walking the floor of any tech company. You'll be surprised that some people just write software and get deadlines done. This idea that bugs are more time than updating hundreds of tests is crazy, delusional nonsense that isn't backed up by what people actually do.
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  19.  @c00ckiez  You said it better.
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  20.  @EricLesch-km7oe  I dunno. Would Dave give a graphic designer a break for not creating tests? The answer to that is the answer for both. One's profession is not more important than another. The logo fails accessibility (colour difficiencies, reading and contrast), it fails any signage or print rules, and fails legibility when scaled. That's at least as important as writing tests for a recipe blog. And all of his finger waving examples about tests could easily apply here -including the insinuation of laziness.
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  21.  @TonyWhitley  you know better. Got it.
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  22. Except this point of view PRETENDS that buggy, test covered software DOESN'T EXIST and that's the crux here. Also, pretty sure Sir Tim Berners Lee wasn't thinking of build tools and TDD when he was thinking about an open web where anyone could publish. The Ivory Tower is thinking this idea of the open web does not matter.
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  23.  @vladinosky  He will never address anything outside the most plain, practical and perfect circumstances.
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  24.  @sheldonlucas4428  It's not that comprehensive, and spends like 50% of it naval gazing about scenarios that no one has any issue with, but with a narrative that he doesn't even address outside of border-line ad-hominem anecdotes.
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  25. The idea that AI would stop to write TDD to appeal to human dogma is hilarious.
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  26. lol you all work at IBM or something. There are plenty of scenarios where testing is a waste of time, and they can't all be waved away as laziness or cheekiness. There are restraints that exist outside of the one-size-fits-all ecosystem that so many of you work in. None of you have ever worked at an agency - responsible for 30% of all web development in our industry, and your lack of understanding of the traits of an agency setting can't all be answered by just suggesting anyone not in a privledged position such as yourself, are just not trying hard enough. You think all of these smart programmers would be able to see outside of their own perspective. And that 30%? Some of the most visited websites in the world. But don't let that stop you from preaching.
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  27. Anyone who doesn't write 100% test coverage on their micro internal weekend project with < 6 users - should be converted to energy and never be allowed to program again, and if you disagree it's a skill issue on your part.
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  28.  @DagarCoH  comment got deleted and i repasted it to see what I did try trigger the filter.
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  29.  @xybersurfer  you're carrying water. I can find several YouTubers for you who are coding live, picking random topics during a stream. Don't be naive.
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  30.  @varshard0 then why even bother with TDD if you’re admitting the coverage is loose?
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  31. What’s it like to be a fanboy and ignore literally all the evidence in the world?
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  32.  @hektik2200  unfortunately we’ve actually seen some CDPR code and it’s college level. There is almost no memory management, it was removed from the PS store, I could go on and on about the crap AI, amongst the billion other things. There’s also literally video evidence of employees saying the exact opposite that you are claiming. What would they know - they only worked there, right?
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  33.  @hektik2200  If we're not going to blame the developers, can I blame the fans, then? Because other than the ridiculousness of taking zero responsibility for the code written, the only other thing would be the gamers who demand ridiculous expectations, and do not let the developers re-realize their current situation and react to it. That I can agree with - but I think laying blame on project management (also essentially non-execs) and execs is lazy and easy. I've never worked at a company where the line between execs and production was as thick as the fanboys are trying to claim it is. I don't buy that - it's not only unrealistic, it doesn't work. If you don't have direct lines of regular communication across the whole company, you can't get anything done.
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  34.  @hektik2200  I didn’t call it college quality, it was the opinion of those who saw the code. Honestly, I have a bunch of games and Witcher 3 is easily the buggiest game out of them all. This isn’t a mistake or a weird coincidence. I don’t know what you’re exactly defending here - the software is not good, not even people who work there are trying to say that - so I don’t get your angle.
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  35.  @hektik2200  creatives actually define the scope. Business does not understand technological restraints. You know that, though. I’ve never worked at a company where an exec walked into a meeting with a game idea - it’s production that presents their vision to execs. Look, you don’t get to blame execs and call them dummies “that don’t get it”, but also try to present them as Neil deGrasse Tyson of industry when it’s convenient. Either they are idiots who blindly boss production around, or they are idea wielding geeks. You don’t get to have both. How you don’t know that, with the experience you’re trying to convey - it’s strange.
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  36.  @hektik2200  speaking of, haven’t you? So engineers don’t deserve the mob but creatives do? Why don’t you admit bias here and save yourself from denial. “Random string of text” is a dead give away of “blanket reasoning “
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  37. You’re crazy, dude. This thing was removed from the PlayStation store - a first for any title. I have 34 switch games - the Witcher 3 is the only one with basic new-programmer level bugs. This didn’t start with Cyberpunk. They have always been poor developers. Several ex employees have posted about this - so you can write a denial essay, but it isn’t accurate in the slightest. Not only that - we’ve seen their code!The code was amateur. Memory management is nonexistent. The fact that their save files are GIGABYTES shows they do not manage resources at all. Treatment of employees was already outted as bs by many in the gaming industry, including ex employees have said that employees are treated poorly unless they have status. Anyone with any background on this topic is going to see that you’re an apologist. Lying to customers, blocking them from seeing accurate reporting, and preventing customers from seeing the product before buying IS NOT customer friendly. Trying to pretend it is is pretty ridiculous.
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  38.  @krinkrin5982  You want me to find their code for you (as proof?) but then go on and on about your inside knowledge of the company. Either things are proprietary or not - ex employees are literally not legally allowed to talk about their experience there, so - can you provide me your proof? My guess is no - because there is about 20 or so YouTube videos from ex- employees who are claiming literally the exact opposite that you are. And, I've worked at enough software companies to know that high turnover is not something you get to paint with a rose-coloured brush. High turnover is literally your metric for telling if a place is crappy to work at or not.
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  39. Blaming management is an easy cop-out. Forgetting who hired the management - and completely forgetting how a company works, you know that execs don't claim to know anything about software dev, right? They take dept. heads feedback, and make decisions based on that. Dept. heads are usually lead designers, lead developers, or at the very least some variation of a director of X - so how are you getting this firm hard line between execs and production? Because I've NEVER worked at a company where that was a thing. This hollywood picture you have in your head, where the execs sit on a slightly higher floor looking over the minions is not at all how it works. Please stop portraying our industry like that.
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  40. This is a reality that the people working at SaaS multinationals like to gloss over.
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  41.  @beowulf_of_wall_st  you realize that Tim Berners Lee was knighted because of his ideas that anyone could publish on the web? I don't want to live in this world where every single thing needs a toolchain and test coverage. How do I know the code works? Because I've been a developer for 15 years. Further, all TDD suffers from being at least 1 degree separated from the actual code. How do you know TDD is helping you?
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  42.  @beowulf_of_wall_st  You sound really close to the subject, my friend. You are definitely projecting. Maybe it's time to take a seat. There's nothing emotional about pointing out that the web was not intended for your evangelism. In fact, people are highly regarded for NOT being gatekeepers. What does "do you run your code manually" even mean? You are proposing TDD because it helps you walk through your logic, and yet this is how you talk about code? Illogically? What part of "vending machine" makes you think I am refreshing pages?
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  43.  @beowulf_of_wall_st  How do you write TDD for a physical object blackbox like a coin acceptor? You want to talk the talk, walk the walk. Explain to me how writing tests that simulate a real world object that relies on PWM to deliver pulses to signal different coin sizes - which can change depending on the amperage delivered to it via cheap chinese components. I would love to hear your deep analysis given how adament you are about this. My guess is you won't have anything to add here.
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  44.  @beowulf_of_wall_st  My guy – I can't even believe you're a real person. I like tests. I think they are good. I also think there's a lot of examples where testing is pedantic. I think most people agree with that. You have never done anything creative in your entire life if all you do is live in a constrained, limited world view. You have not insulted my skills or anything about me because your shots don't line up with my criticism. You want to paint me like an inexperienced developer because I don't want to write tests while I am hanging out with my kids, making a vending machine? Like you're serious? Give your head a shake. If you are seriously writing tests to test every single thing, then I would counter that maybe you have no confidence in anything you have ever written – the real shame here. The best developers I have ever known do not shame people for not having knowledge, by the way. So there's that.
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  45.  @drbek  It's not a burn. This channel is about living up to a standard that Dave has insisted on. There are plenty of hobbyist programmers or people who write code for fun - and Dave calls these people lazy if they don't do unit testing, so I'm calling a spade a spade. The larger point here is that Dave continually demonstrates dogma over practicality - and I can do the same. The logo is garbage, and if Dave's branding was held to the same standard as he holds over every line of code, he'd be at the bottom of the list. If he's comfortable putting video after video out about laziness of not doing unit testing, then I think your precious little heart can take 1 comment about his hideous logo.
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  46. This carries with my understanding of best practices as well. Although, I wish there was some content out there discussing how small agencies deal with developing software w/ TDD. In a software business, applying TDD to everything is something you can sell internally – as everyone stands to benefit from it. In agency settings where every client is different, it is more arduous to sell TDD in smaller-scale systems, where budget and timing come into play. I know developers will argue "well, don't work with them if they don't have the budget for TDD", but when clients budget for software development, they aren't privy to everything you are, and so they do enter RFPs, quote farming a lot of the time without consideration for TDD. We can argue that these clients are left behind, but there's money left on the table – and I personally prefer working on smaller teams, with smaller clients and various projects that all have different degrees of involvement from the client. TDD just doesn't practically fit in a lot of agency work – and I think it should be talked about, so that perhaps agency-friendly TDD can be developed. As it stands, the 1-3 developer shop, working on a mix of projects represent a decent chunk of the workforce, but most of that work is being done without TDD. People say they do. They don't. I've worked at many agencies, and even when they say they do TDD, it's not anywhere near even 50% coverage.
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  47.  @sashbot9707  Sure, but if the intent is to have everyone employ TDD, the conversation should also include the spectrum of employment where it is the MOST difficult to implement. Working at a software/SaSS – it is much easier to preach this opinion – that "TDD is an absolute must!" I 'm not saying TDD is bad, just that its additional work does not often result in a discernible difference in time loss vs. no TDD and fixing bugs as they happen. When I have had the time to implement TDD, I have enjoyed it – but when projects are a revolving door, the focus and budget required is much harder to acquire consistently.
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  48.  @trignals  There isn't a problem, per se. It's more of the "TDD is a must" meets "reality"
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  49. We’ve actually seen CDPR code, though, and it was lambasted by developers as poor, college level code. We’re not going to get into saying all developers are wrong because you have feelings, right? Because there’s a LOT of evidence working against your view.
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  50.  @stugeh  I guess - but why should I give CDPR a pass when none of the developers at EA ever get a pass? The problem with this conversation is that it is steeped in personal bias. You’re all peeved off when it’s CDPR, but silent for literally any other time. #FreeMelee was a “shit on everyone at Nintendo fest” and I don’t remember there being legions of unpaid d-riders pushing a false narrative about greedy people. You want them to be seen as an indie developer (and they are not by definition), AND this well oiled ship, with a hard divided line between management and coders - and I’m sorry, but that line is a made up thing in your head. At some point this little indie developer asked for the public offering, when they were just a few people. They don’t get kid gloves treatment when they are a publicly traded company. I’m sorry, but no one is buying this perspective.
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