Comments by "Tespri" (@Tespri) on "Jordan Peterson's Archetypes Debunked" video.

  1. +TMM Ahh.. TMM That guy who loves socialism and pseudoscience. Peterson isn't thinking that biblical stories actually happened. He simple extracts truths of the people of the time. Observation and wisdom they had collectives over time. Same observations that we can see even today's world. Like with archetypes... No matter which stories you look. All over the world the archtypes seem to be same. And if you live long enough, you will notice that at some point every new person you meet, will fall into some archtype of a person you already knew.
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  2. It kind of reminds me of how people treated Ayn Rand. Lot of her critics has no clue what she was even talking about. Taking her words out of context and arguing over semantics. Deep philosophical things are just too complex for some people. They can't comprehend things and generally ignore the context of them. Guy who made this video behaves like autistic. Incapable to understand symbolic meanings, he simply sees everything as literal.
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  3. +JB "Rationality rules" did simply do game of semantics instead of actually refuting archtypes.
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  4. +Timm Post modernism is idiotic, the fact that you are so butthurt over Peterson criticizing it tells lot about you and your commie cult.
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  5. +Vampyricon They are valued because they also reflect western values. Every story has a hero, but not all heroes are the exact same. Where Hercules was a hero who destroyed monsters. Jesus was hero which advocated forgiveness (and pacifism).
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  6. Not really. Peterson made clear case that atheists have more evidence and rationality behind their belief than Christians. Peterson is something one would call as "atheist christian".
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  7. +Tom Wright He haven't hijacked word like "true" and "real" if you actually watch his videos he explains what he means with those.
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  8. +Mario Mario Don't complain about fallacies when you haven't ever provided nothing but fallacies. That makes you a hypocrite.
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  9. +Stee STee TMM has openly been against biological facts. Also socialism isn't awesome, unless you think that mass murder and starvation under dictatorial rulership is awesome.
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  10. +Alex Marenco Everything that Peterson have said about bible can be applied to pretty much any mythological and religious story. So no... It's not really subjective since these themes have existed since birth of civilization. They show human understanding over behavior. " I could say that Spongebob is a archetypal reflection of the Child, " Well he is. Literally reflected as one. It's his archtype. "Its ironic how he attacks post modernists for being moral relativist, but he himself uses subjective thought to make a case against it. " Seems like we have butthurt commie. You act exactly like creationist. Trying to create ad hominems and strawmen instead of refuting arguments.
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  11. +Vampyricon So basically his whole title is a click bait. This just makes RR appear dishonest. How is he any different from William Lane Craig?
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  12. First of all... You're playing game of semantics in your critizism. Second, your video is a clickbait. You didn't actually refute archtype. Third, you committed ad hominem dismiss your criticism because you think that they are "peterson's children". I'm sorry but you're Atheist version of William Lane Craig.
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  13. His Archetypes are based on what exists in every culture in this world. For some reason most stories told follow these archtypes. And longer you have live in this world, the more you will notice that people fall into this archtypes. People with certain talents or lack of talents end up being very similar among themselves. Those for example who are curious are bound to be scholar/sage type of people. highly disagreeable people are bound to be like rebel archtype. Brave ones are bound to be leaders or heroes etc...
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  14. +forza 1892 It's pretty ironic that "rationality rules" is actually behaving like Lane Craig.
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  15. +Dark Ninja Expect RR didn't address why Peterson is wrong with it. Also Peterson biased? Didn't he recently come out and say that he isn't christian?
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  16. +Maria maria Ah it's you again, the guy who denies sciences all the time. Been years since I saw you last time. I responded to TMM in kind. If you have watched TMM he does nothing but insults those he disagrees with and now he compared PEterson to Reza Aslan. In which i decided to show to people who don't know TMM that what sort of person he is. However talking about dimwits... You totally ignored rest of my response to him and instead rely purely on insults on me. You know... Actually ignored the profound statements I made. Oh also you TMM's fanboys dimwits are worse than creationists.
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  17. +Byron Bevensee Peterson has come out and stated that he is not christian. Not only that but he also has stated that atheist has far better ground than religious people when it comes to reason and evidence. Peterson simply uses bible and other religious texts to show that ancient people were aware some of the fundamental human problems, and taught people this knowledge through religion and stories. Anyone who actually watches his lectures is aware of this. Simply put he isn't stating that bible is true, but stating that there is truth in the lessons taught in it.
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  18. +zeke lentil I know this mario mario. Have had debates with this intellectual dwarf before. He always responses in anger and never listens his opposition.
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  19. +Alex Marenco "No but the application is subjective." Not at all. " All the correlations he draws from whatever story he reads, are just based on his interpretations" And? Everything in this world is based on someone's interpretation, that doesn't mean that said interpretation cannot be true. I repeat... These are common themes among all cultures. "The example I drew with Spongebob, could be attributed to any other archetype not only the child. " nope. For example father, God, devil, wise old man, wise old woman wouldn't apply to him. These are well defined to the point that you just can't throw them to everyone. Plus you forget totally the persona and ego. ". I could make the case that he fits the Hero, The Great Mother, or pretty much anyone. Someone else might think differently about it. It is subjective. " Sure in theory you could make some fictional who possess all qualities, but have you met a single living person who has all of them? " It is subjective. " It's not subjective when the qualities have been well defined. "No, they dont exist." Literally every freaking archtype that has been used in western world, has been used in every other culture in history of mankind. You should read some mythology and history of other cultures than western one. The stories have exactly the same narratives and heroes/teachers all posses same personality types. "There is no collective unconscious." You don't even know what that means, especially since it seems that you think that there is literally some brain over there which unites all consciousness. "These themes are abstract concepts, and our understanding of them vary from person to person. " Themes are based on reality and what people have observed. " They are not something intrinsic in collective human psychology, nor they are some sort of shared memory of some sort." Writing and story telling makes them collective. With collective he means that what people as whole have observed and thus ended up believing, and then proceed to reinforce these ideas through story telling. "No the they dont. Jungian theories arent really accepted in the world of Neuroscience. Mainly due to the fact that they are scientifically un falsifiable. " That's funny because last time I checked they were. In fact you know the whole ISTJ,ISFJ,INFJ,INTJ etc... Thing? It's way for psychologists to determine your personality type. It's falls to the jungian idea. "You are the one characterizing me as a "commie". " The opposite. You used his character as way to refute his views. I didn't call you as commie to refute you. It's simply common thing that commies despise Peterson. ". I never said I even agreed with post modernism or anything for that matter." One can be communist and disagree with post modernism.
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  20. +alex marenco "You dont get it. Do you even know what the word objective means?" It's you who don't get it. Someone's subjective interpretation can be objectively right. Moron... Jungian is objective, there is no room for subjective in there. "No they are not. There is no way to determine this objectively" Expect there is, by simply summing up every mythological story together like we have already done. You're what one might call ignoramus. Hero always shows same traits. Teacher always shows same traits. and it goes on. These archtypes are foundation to human behavior and psyche. "Archetypes are defined so vaguely" Objectively false. They have clear cut definitions. " Provide some definite and testable evidence that proves your claim. " Already have done that, not my fault that you keep ignoring them. "The concept of "collective unconcious" is not testable or falsifiable. " Expect it's by simply looking at the cultural products made by societies at large. Are they similar or are they different? Fact is... They are all similar. "That is not the definition of subjective." I wasn't trying to state definition of subjective. I were merely expressing that there are objective parameters used to determine what those archtypes are. WORD child may have some subjective meaning for you, but what belongs to archtype of the child is objectively measured by given traits to it. Hero, child, devil etc... Take them as more like symbolic names. You can take their names and just use numbers if you're so idiotic that you fail to get my point. "The archetypes themselves were made up by a guy." So were concept of money, race, specie, math, etc.... Just because someone comes up with concept, doesn't mean that it cannot be objective. Also made up? This proves how low IQ you have, since you didn't even consider possibility of DISCOVERING them. "This has nothing to do with what I was saying. I was talking about the concept of collective unconcious. " I just described what collective consciousness is. Since you clearly have no idea and keep thinking in metaphysics. "They dont have the same narratives." just because story isn't exact copy of one another doesn't change the fact that characer archtypes doesn't share same similarities among themselves. You talking about plot twists and other idiocy like that. I talk about characters, which Jordan and Jung did as well. Narrative was relevant in some, but same narratives appeared. Why do you even keep debating about this? It's painfully obvious that you haven't read ancient literature. "The Archetypes take complex reality and reduces cultural expressions to generic decontextualized concepts." The opposite. You are talking about reality as whole now. Archtypes don't address that, they address human personality types. Fucking idiot... "First off, the MBTI test is a method of classification, it doesn't show anything the way we understand cognitive behavior. " IT provides exact same thing as Jung's archtypes. And it literally does show about cognitive behavior. What the fuck you expect introvert and extrovert to be if not cognitive behavior models? "The test, nor Jung's theories have no place in Neuroscience, which is the one that explores cognitive human behavior. " Yet neuroscientists like them and accept them. "The MBTI is probably the most disregarded and unreliable test in psychology. Its a joke. Its pseudo scientific all the way. " Your belief that humans are blank slates is nothing but pseudo science.
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  21. +Alex Marenco "Yeah the problem is that there is no evidence to support the idea that they are in fact objectively right." Expect there is. Multiple studies done on human behavior and our cultural history. You're trying too hard with your marxism. Peterson is basically biologists and you're creationist in this case trying to claim that there is no evidence for evolution. "The archetypes arent the foundation of human behavior and psyche. You have no way to fucking know this. " They are and there is way to know this. Again they give specific qualities to those archetypes and we can see people who posses them. "Show me a verifiable test, that proves this. You wont find one. You dont get the point." Find psychologists or career trainer they have multiple of those. "They are just statements with no scientific value nor foundation." So you're saying that there is no scientific value or foundation that there are different human personalities? And that our cultures tend to give these said personalities to fictional characters which always follow certain stereotype. Where teacher is always old and wise man. Patient and stoic. etc.. Evidence is right there but you keep denying that there is non. ". Claimning that there are similarities between fictional characters and a given practical view isnt proof that there is a shared intrinsic collective psychology. " So you're saying that the fact that literally all stories created by every ancient culture... Where each character represents archetype which matches to every other culture on the planet. Is not an evidence that every culture on planet shares these archetypes? Can you get any more retarded? "Thats the thing you idiot he didnt discover shit. The collective unconcious is just a mere hypothesis Jung came up with in order to explain that similarities he sought on myths. " You know that word came up also is implied that he discovered. " Its not objective fact you moron. " Okay, I guess it's no longer objective fact that all of those ancient cultures shared similar characters in myths. Good job for denying actual evidence. "No they dont. Some qualities of certain archetypes overlap with on another. " Yes they do, and some overlap and? You do realize that jung and peterson are aware of this? And how these things are something that can be considered as "allies". Ever played magic the gathering? It's basically what white and black are for blue. IF you don't know then google. "How is Theseus narrative the same with Luke's (from star wars)? They both will be considered archetypes of Heroes. " Both set out to overcome their foes. Both had their growing up periods and their own giants to slay. This is the most archtypical hero. Both of them. But narrative same? Oh yeah I forgot according to you story needs to be exactly the same. Theseus would need to be in space as space samurai in order for you to take this seriously. Ever wondered why all the heroes are the same? With few exceptions in case where writer purposefully wants to break the mold (like deathpool)? "I wasnt talking about reality as a whole. I was talking about the complex reality of human cognitive behavior and subconscious. The archetypes reduces this and tries to fit it into a generic contextual mold. " So what if it would be the case? It still doesn't refute it. It seems that you hate the idea that humans could be labeled. Simply because something has complex background, doesn't mean that they don't result into simple answers. For example natural selection is extremely complex subject, including understanding DNA etc... However we can simply sum it up as survival of the fittest. In very simple manner. "The test only tries to classifies you, but does a pretty lame job at it. " Pretty good job since every test I have done in my lifetime, have given same results. Including ones made by professionals. "Many studies have shown that people actually get very different results when retaking the exam." Prove it, also there might be slight variation on parts where person is unsure of himself. You don't see drastic changes like extrovert suddenly being introvert. "And no introvert and extrovert arent cognitive models, they are only dichotomies used in the exam. " Actually they are, and they both show clear brain patterns that can be detected. "No they dont. Jungs practices have nothing to do with neuroscience. " Depends on field, however they do study Jung. Just because you're marxist and creationist. That doesn't mean that science agrees with your blind faith. "Wow what a strawman. I never said anything about this. What I said is that the MBTI, and Jungs theories have no room in the world neuroscience. What the fuck does this have to do with anything. " Your theory and claim makes only sense by person who believes that humans are blank slates.
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  22. +Advenssaurus Mario Mario is too ugly to look himself to the mirror. That is why he keeps up with pseudoscientific non-sense.
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