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@yukas1ngas that was just a blabbering mess mate, which isn't surprising because people like you can't deal with people who are generally against the U.S. and Russia. That is Europe for you, a lack of false dichotomy of having to side between the U.S. and Russia. As a Swede I can promise you that Russia is so easily offended, so easily provoked, that it is ludicrous for you to pretend this stance is based on a lack of information. You have absolutely no idea what information flows in Swedish, so just don't pretend you know. The more I learn about Russia, the more friendly to nato I become. If the U.S. was out of nato, I would be for a membership for Sweden. At this point, I get more pro nato the more Russia threatens me and my country. There is nothing anyone can say to change that, the only thing that matters is what Russia says, i.e. how easily provoked they are i.e. how much they threaten me and my country. Capish?
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@jerrmhs the Police shootings database 2015-2020 by Washington Post. I can't access it now, but if I recall correctly they break things down in a large number of categories. Just looking at one single year isn't enough as the numbers are quite close to each other. Again, if I recall correctly, the recent average for black people were in the low 40's.
For police: The LEOKA reports by FBI, google leoka fbi 2019
then click on Tables by Title, and then Table 1.
Average both last 5 and last 10 years: 51
For more details about 2019, to put the numbers in a context, google fbi police Felonious Deaths 2019
YT blocked my comment when I used the links, so I had to remove them.
You know why I brought up BLM, and I explained in my last comment, so don't play stupid. The connection between Floyd and BLM should be obvious to anyone who has had an eye on the news for the last months, but let's not dwell on that.
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@jerrmhs but you played the very same game of supposed whataboutism. We talked about the violence in the protests and riots, and you basically said but what about police violence?
I only brought up BLM because you asked why I brought up race, which I did because we talked about protests, riots, George Floyd and police violence. To clarify, I think neither of us resorted to whataboutism, we are both talking about the actual topic.
I brought up the stats because you talked about the power differential between the protesters (the people) and the police. As you said, facts over feelings, so we should not avoid bringing in relevant facts. I could have mentioned how many unarmed people are killed, but given the overall topic it isn't dishonest not to. One is more relevant to OP and one is more relevant to what you said, whichever I choose I pick the less relevant for either of the specific topics. If you want to talk about those stats, we can. Well, I can't access the WaPo page, but you get my point :P.
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@anguita119 "If it's so bad talking to me, why do you keep doing it?"
I said discussion. This is not a discussion, it is me informing you of your errors.
"Why don't you just assume that I'm right ..."
Because I am not insane.
"... where do you get your argument that China didn't care to de-orbit?"
From the design of the Long March 5B rocket. This isn't the first time this happened with this rocket, in case you didn't know. And just to be clear, this is and was always about controlled de-orbit.
"... they have ways to de-orbit the rockets ..."
Not the Long March 5B, which you were referring to when you said "... when the Chinese rocket went out of control, everyone said that "they would have to worry more", "Chinese as always", etc. And when had it happened to spacex? ALL WITH THEIR MOUTHS CLOSED ..."
"Fuck according to you just because one does not get de-orbit does it mean that they do not care about anything?"
You should leave obvious mischaracterizations like that out of your comments.
"Also in case you don't know if they care about security, they are building another space center with access to the sea ..."
I know. You should not be under the illusion that you can inform me about anything related to this. This exchange is not you informing me about anything or a discussion about anything, this is just me informing you about your errors. Nothing else.
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Craig Dow Only math deals with proof, all other fields have to make due with evidence. Therefor God cannot be proven, Evolution cannot be proven, Big Bang cannot be proven, your existence cannot be proven, but I can prove that the sum of all the angles in a triangle is 180 degrees. Not sure why you would think I believe Evolution is proven, maybe you are the one who doesn't "know your history"?
So of course there is no proof that evolution happened, is happening and will happen in the future, but there is evidence to suggest that it is the case. The London Underground mosquito is an interesting situation for instance, might be worth the while for you to look up. That deals with what some people call "micro-evolution" though, which is way more accepted in the religious community because it is something we can actually observe "real-time" (although it can take some time). What some people call "macro-evolution" is tougher to gather evidence for as it is all about history, but very manageable like: According to what we think we know, we should be able to find something like this somewhere around a certain place. If found, the ability to predict, which is crucial in the scientific method, is fulfilled.
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m jones my point is that you can see him in video egging people on, and talking about how he's gonna buy a trump hat, and saying that he frequently uses the "I'm just here to film" excuse.
Also: ""John has been kicked from the #SaltLakeCity and #Portland protest scenes due to alarming behaviors including grifting/profiteering, self-promotion/clout chasing, sabotage of community actions, threats of violence, and — maybe most disturbingly — ties to the far-right," Rebellion Baby wrote. "In short — John's brother, James, is the co-founder of a pro-Trump org called 'Civilized Awakening,' and has strong ties to Proud Boys — even having spoken at a Proud Boy rally. The brothers' polarized political stances conveniently bolster the other's public personas. Activists in these cities recommend that he be barred from community actions and totally avoided.""
John is nobody's friend, he just wants to see things burn. Sounds familiar? What happened in Portland after Biden's inauguration again?
A fun little thing on the side about who's supporting his grifting?
"Accused Capitol rioter John Sullivan sold video footage he recorded at the Jan. 6 siege to NBC and CNN for $35,000 each, according to new court papers."
Despicable.
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@theoretisch4429 "Believing in equality and applying that value to your positions is incredibly consistent if you want to argue about that."
Yeah I am not arguing against that. There are obviously more than one set of consistent thoughts out there :P.
"If someone discriminates minorities and his excuse his that he is consistent.."
But that is not what we are doing. I am arguing that consistency should be commended, even though you dislike the person, as the lack of consistency is even worse. In the spectrum of inconsistency to consistency, you can't achieve more than consistency, so when that is achieved it should be highlighted for how ideological disagreements should be handled, with consistency.
"Then congrats on being consistent on discrimination of that minority."
We are talking about over all consistency.
"But it goes against my values so therefore I wouldn't ever defend someone for their discrimination. Period."
But as no one is perfect, so I hope you will never defend anyone for anything, as no person is perfect and thus hold bad views. Especially if we judge us today by future's standard.
"Well you could bring that argument if they actually wouldn't believe what I'm saying they believe."
But we talked about this, you talked about climate science and brought up a source that could be exaggerating Ben's position. And you failed to address how that source didn't exaggerate what he said. You see, when you make claims, you have to back them up with actual evidence, and if the evidence points to the opposite, they actually don't believe what you are saying they believe. Ben and his supporters are two different things, but you making claims is the same, not matter if it is about him or your supporters, you should be able to back up what you say with evidence.
"When I say they discriminate gays by saying they shouldn't be allowed to marry then this is discrimination and not an exaggeration"
The exaggeration could be calling them homophobic for it.
"Well then say that and don't say they aren't as bad as I think."
Should I really have to?
"And being against gay marriage is as wrong as it gets."
Then you don't need to exaggerate, by assuming they are against it because of their homophobia, if that is what you do. Or is that just for Ben, not his fans?
"Where exactly did I say that? I didn't say that in the sentences you quoted."
You said:
"And it would be harmful to normalize them and say "well they are not as bad as you think"."
Sometimes they are as bad as you think, sometimes they are not. You say that it is harmful to normalize them as a blanket statement, no matter if they are as bad or not. The only logical conclusion is that you think speaking the truth can be harmful, and in this case is.
"It is harmful to normalize people who have a stance that is discriminating minorities."
Then say that :P. I am not sure I agree, as pushing them away doesn't seem to help, so maybe the opposite will? Have you heard about Daryl Davis? Look him up, really interesting stuff!
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@psycholify yt is indeed horrible regarding that, yes :).
You can call it minimizing if you want, but that is your interpretation and I definitely acknowledged the risk, which Musk did as well. That is your lie, that we did not. The bigger discussion was about the usefulness (my very first comment included "Starlink seems like it has a military application, not civil."), including their military potential, which now is confirmed.
Oh and while we are at it, I also wrote:
""My point was that they do like them, as its easier to track where these sets are"
It's not easy, it's possible."
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@Steelmage99 "In my experience that is the kind of rhetoric and the kind of subjects being presented by pro-QAnon people, ie nut cases."
Indeed, and that is quite sad. I only knew about Epstein years and years ago because of those kind of people, not because of MSM :P. Same with Jimmy Fallon and Jimmy Kimmel backface stories, there are some shocking actual truths these people talk about, but you never believe them for all the other things they say as well. This is why the Qanon people I have encountered blame powerful people for planting ludicrous Qanon theories out there, to muddle the waters about the real stuff there is, like Epstein. Nutty people are going to be nuts, and all movements have them, so we should not solely judge a movement, or tangents to one, based on those nutty people. Coming back to Epstein and the fight, the amount of jokes and predictions that he would die "by his own hands" in prison was overwhelming, so when it actually happened there is nothing you can say to these people to convince them of anything other than what they believe. Maybe if something big comes from Maxwell spilling the beans, but who knows.
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@andysykes9139 my point being that although it is great to be specific and mention what area is shrinking, it is also important to not leave out information as it is impossible to draw a conclusion without viewing the entire situation. Other than that I'll quote a guy from reddit:
"It is almost pointless to try and find out whether the Sahara is growing or shrinking, because of the sheer size of the desert (as well as demarcating what exactly constitutes 'desert'). In the late 90s to mid 2000s, the thought was that the Sahara desert was expanding southwards by a certain extent each year. This was of course somewhat exaggerated. On the other hand, so is the perception that the deserts are 'in retreat' as these articles seem to imply.
The thing is, between the late 70s to late 80s, there was a significantly dry period in the Sahel region (the transition zone between the Sahara and the savanna) which exacerbated the effects of desertification, leading to the perception in the 1990s-2000s that the desert was indeed expanding. However, over the last 15-20 years in terms of precipitation, the region has been in a comparatively very wet period. Relative to the significant drought the area previously experienced, it may seem that the deserts are in 'retreat' but arguably that is essentially what is expected in terms of how vegetation has responded (it gets a bit more complicated because some of the previous mesic vegetation has been replaced by xeric vegetation in certain areas so while it is greener, it is not quite the same)
I hope this help. I could go into more detail but this should give you an idea of how complicated it is to understand.
Source - My dissertation research has broadly to do with understanding how vegetation responds to moisture events"
Thoughts on that?
"I won't even mention the increase in sea ice!"
And again, do you mean Arctic and Antarctic sea ice put together? And do you mean it is a long term trend?
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@jakerobert3118 "the pool-specific death toll is not readily available"
When something isn't readily available, it should not be treated as if it doesn't exist.
"And because it’s so ridiculous to propose that non-drowning pool deaths are any significant number."
Then why are not everyone free to go to the pool today?
"the thought that 360,000 American die every year in pools is laughable."
Sure, but that is not what anyone have said. It comes down to interpretation. You can choose to interpret what anyone said in the most charitable way and understand the point, or you can choose to interpret it in the most uncharitable way and lol at it. It is your choice. I prefer to follow "the principle of charity", which Wikipedia describes as "In philosophy and rhetoric, the principle of charity or charitable interpretation requires interpreting a speaker's statements in the most rational way possible and, in the case of any argument, considering its best, strongest possible interpretation. In its narrowest sense, the goal of this methodological principle is to avoid attributing irrationality, logical fallacies, or falsehoods to the others' statements, when a coherent, rational interpretation of the statements is available."
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@Infectd "... it's hard to discount the many service members and regular pilots that have come out with stories. We are talking Air Force pilots and Naval Officers whose job is to literally track enemies in the skies and oceans."
True, but at the same time, the way they have reacted in the released/leaked UFO videos, they seem to be as puzzled by what they see as any random Joe Schmoe, something e.g. Mick West would not be. Additionally, if they are good at identifying things, wouldn't that just mean that they'd be able to identify things further away, at some point even they'll reach a distance where they no longer can identify things. Regarding these witness testimonies that you speak of, do the pilots rely on what they see with their eyes, or on the instruments? Do those who analyze the data have the same data as the pilots do on the fly? One extra challenge for the pilots is to do this identification on the fly, while operating an aircraft.
"If what they describe is true, then I just don't see how any enemy nation could have technology ..."
Even more reason to doubt their testimony.
"The only rational answer is whatever these things are, they are not here to interact but observe, or they are and we are just not in the know."
You forgot the most rational answer, that these things are just going about their day, like airplanes, weather balloons, birds etc. Are you aware of how many UFOs there are that can be explained without resorting to extraordinary claims?
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@Aaviskar Parasor it is not only for me though, I've seen many complaints about people's comments not coming through. These complaints are often incorrectly directed at specific youtube channels, not youtube itself, which is a shame because those yt-channels doesn't deserve that criticism.
Wikipedia describes shadow banning as:
"Shadow banning, also called stealth banning, ghost banning or comment ghosting, is the act of blocking or partially blocking a user or their content from an online community so that it will not be readily apparent to the user that they have been banned."
The Economist describes it this way:
"A shadowban, in theory, curtails the ways in which that attention may be earned without blocking a user’s ability to post new messages or carry out typical actions on a network. Shadowbanned users are not told that they have been affected. They can continue to post messages, add new followers and comment on or reply to other posts. But their messages may not appear in the feed, their replies may be suppressed and they may not show up in searches for their usernames."
So this is a well known thing. It has nothing to do with my computer or auto-correct (how could it be?). It is basically a social credit score system, something people like to pretend to be against but wishes to be used against their ideological enemies. The very fact that you doubt it even exist shows how functional it is and why they are not open with it. I have no idea how wide spread it is, all I know is that it happens to me to some degree. It has nothing to do with swears, it is about creating a system that automatically suppresses speech/behavior they don't like.
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@Vlikdude "Did you know that in the 19th century it was widely believed that the other planets in our solar system were likely inhabited? At the same time, the quality of telescopes was rapidly increasing, making it possible for astronomers to see and sketch the incredible details of the geography of Mars. As we'll see the initial excitement fades as science begins to cast doubt on the possibility of life on our planetary neighbor.
As astronomers charted the features of the red planet, many believed they were seeing oceans that confirmed ideas about the likelihood of life on Mars. Later, observations of canals and apparent straight lines on the surface of Mars seemed to offer evidence of intelligent life and civilizations on the planet.
An 1831 astronomy textbook, The Young Astronomer, explained, "To the people who live on Mars, this earth probably appears larger than Mars does to us" (27). This was not simply a colorful turn of phrase. In the 1830s many astronomers believed Mars, the other planets, and even the sun, were inhabited."
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@klaus7443 "No he wasn't....."
So instead of the most reasonable assumption, that he reacted to what was said in the video, you think he reacted to the actual rules of MHP, even though he does not seem to understand it. Now that is grasping at straws if I ever saw it.
"I understand exactly as to what you are saying ..."
Not at all, as "You said what the host sees depends upon whether or not he wants the contestant to win or not." is not even close to what I am saying. I have no idea how you even came up with that idea. If I were as insecure as you are, I would hurl an insult your way at this point ;).
"Lol....the host knows what is behind the doors. That means he can see if the contestant's chances by staying have changed after the reveal."
Correct, and a crucial part of my argument. What you are missing though is that my point about the missing instruction in 1:24 regarding the way Cindy explains the problem, the host is not obligated to open a door, so if the contestant chooses wrong (or correct) door, the host can simply open the door.
"...and Marc thinks it's a 50/50 chance. It isn't."
I agree, although it is a decent assumption if the contestant doesn't know the intention of the host and, as explained in the video, the host isn't obligated to open a door.
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@klaus7443 "So what are you disagreeing with?"
I have answered this.
"You're just a bottom feeding troll who has no understanding of anything."
Says the person who find the first opportunity to call someone stupid.
"The host knows where the car is and can see that the contestant's chances of winning by staying doesn't change after the reveal. "
True, but the host doesn't have to make any reveal, according to the rules Cindy set up. I wonder if you actually looked at what she says at 1:24
"I have told you that several times yet you disagree with what I said without any reason ..."
The reason is that what Cindy explained is not the MHP, as she doesn't declare that the host has to open a door.
"If you want to continue trolling then go ahead."
If anyone is trolling, you are.
"If you want to discuss the Monty Hall Problem we can do that as well ..."
I am sure you are able, but MHP is so simple that it is quite boring to talk about. The only interesting aspect is when it is not a pure MHP, like when the one explaining the problem doesn't declare that the host has to open a door. That is where the fun is.
"I understand the problem a million times better than you do ..."
I understand that you need to say things like this to make you feel good about yourself. I am not insulted as that is just a lie, so go ahead and lash out more if you need to. If you need to huff and puff to make you feel worth something, go ahead, I'm here. I don't want to be too mean, but it is obvious you have serious issues with yourself, not only based on how you conduct yourself, but it also isn't normal to post four different replies to just one comment, quite erratic. I hope you have someone to talk to IRL, because I don't think the internet is improving your life.
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@klaus7443 have you noticed that you use "incorrect" and "disagreeing with" interchangeably? It does not mean the same thing, so you shouldn't use those words as you do. I haven't said that what you say regarding MHP is incorrect, I have said that I disagree with your original comment, as that original comment fails to address the fact that Cindy does not describe the actual MHP.
Just to show you how unable you are to have a conversation, you can't take a stance on if Cindy describes the MHP or not at 1:24
If you say it is, well then you are obviously wrong because she doesn't state that the host has to open a door (i.e. always opens another door after contestant chooses one). If you say it isn't, then your whole argument falls apart, and you can't admit that because of personal reasons. Instead you try anything you can to save face, even though you know that you messed this conversation up. You went in too hot headed and prematurely tried to insult me. To not admit that it was wrong of you to do that, you have to rationalize your behavior in any way possible, but that hinders you from having a normal conversation that accepts the simple truth, that Cindy did not actually describe the MHP.
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I want to recall some study I heard from the Skeptics Guide to the Universe podcast, about some topic that showed that viewers of FOX, MSNBC and CNN were misinformed compared to those of CBS ABC etc. I don't remember enough to know what to look for, but looking for similar things as a little example I found this:
"One question asked, "How many degrees (measured in Fahrenheit) has global temperature increased since the late 1800s? Less than 1 degree, 1 degree to 3 degrees, 3 degrees to 5 degrees, 5 degrees to 10 degrees, 10 degrees to 20 degrees, or more than 20 degrees Fahrenheit?"
A plurality, at 37 percent, chose the correct answer of 1-3 degrees. A strong plurality, 41 percent of Fox News viewers and 42 percent of other network viewers, chose the correct answer. Pluralities of CNN and MSNBC viewers, however, incorrectly overestimated, choosing 3-5 degrees."
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@markhill3858 "... but no one on earth would not think Star Trek on seeing it."
That is besides the point.
"My question is about the point of a "space force", as in a militarised space agency. Is there any point in this? or is it playing on the fantasies of the ignorant to make trump look good?"
Are you talking about the point in making it a separate branch? Or are you also talking about the previously long time existing Air Force Space Command as well? Do you have any insight in other countries similar projects?
"In comes a burst of bullet sized stealth objects at .01 light speed. Impossible to spot, impossible to stop, and indistinguishable from natural meteors."
Is this a capability e.g. Russia or China have? Citation please. Drawing up scenarios that are not reality is not interesting when we deal with a real life situation.
"A "space force" would cost a million times more than just replacing the satellite, not to mention being totally useless."
How do you know? What qualifications do you have to make that determination? As you didn't lay out anything that can be reviewed all I can do is take your word for it, and I won't do that unless you have some serious credentials. My alarm bells go off when you start talking about a percent of the speed of light, that is 30 times faster than the currently fastest human made object. It takes time to replace things, if crucial infrastructure is destroyed in the beginnings of a conflict, you can't just replace/repair it before the ramifications has come.
"So yeah I mock this Star Trek flag."
if you have an issue with the mission, it seems misplaced to mock the flag. That makes it look like you only have trivial complaints about the issue.
"Or do you seriously advocate the development of some crazy ww2 style "space fighter" like in star wars or battlestar?"
Why do you imply I do? I never claimed I did and never gave a hint that I do. Is that the plan for Space Force? What is the budget for that? Have you looked at it?
"Tell me what the point of this bullshit is..."
Same point in having the Air Force Space Command, which is like 38 years now. Now, instead of answering this question I will let Neil deGrasse Tyson answer for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhuIz94W9_4 Maybe you are inclined to listen to him more than me? It starts with Neil saying "I remember recommending a Space Force in 2001, on a 12 member commission, to which I had been appointed by George W Bush.". You might be interested in his chat with Joe Rogan about this issue as well, a little longer but surely worth a listen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipY0bhU2fe4
"... apart from making trump look good to the completely scientifically ignorant (ie his "base")"
I have no doubt this is a part of it, and trying to build a long lasting legacy. I would think the same regarding landing Astronauts on the Moon before 2025, but Trump doesn't seem that excited about that so am inclined to not think so.
"It also occurs to me that a "space force" is potentially a replacement for nasa ..."
But that is not what this issue is about.
"What do you think this flag is for exactly?"
Everything has a flag, basically. The existence of the flag itself cannot be a cause for concern.
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@sangwaraumo I think he misses more predictions than other people, but I think it is quite exaggerated as many times he just expresses possibilities rather than predictions. I really see these misinterpretations all the time. I think it is important to correctly interpret people, especially if you want to be criticize what they say. I mean, if I say "we could land a man on the Moon in 2024", how would you interpret that? Compare that interpretation to me saying "We will se an orbital flight of Starship this year". Surely you can see a significant difference in the level of these predictions?
Additionally, it is quite common place to miss predictions in the space business, SLS, JWST, New Glenn, Vulcan, Starliner are the current things that comes to mind right now. Maybe you think all that is scammy as well, fair enough, but I don't think you can take an honest look at this whole situation and see Musk as the worst "scammer" in all of this.
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@sangwaraumo don't conflate hope and wishful thinking though, quite different concepts. I seriously doubt there will be 1 million people on Mars by 2050, but I hope it'll happen because that would be cool. This is not wishful thinking, wishful thinking would be believing it would actually happen by that year. I seriously doubt Elon thinks it'll happen as he knows he sets unrealistic timelines to foster motivation. Do you think he believes it'll happen? Same with Dear Moon, you can see he has his doubts about the 2023 year, but he can't really say he doesn't believe in it as he wants people to work hard towards the goal of getting there, so it won't be delayed more than necessary.
So, you don't want to laugh at Blue Origins unrealistic timelines? That kind of makes you look like just another irrational Elon hater tbh. I mean, come on... I would have thought that Jeff Bezos would be quite a juicy target for your ridicule. I mean, even though his company is older than SpaceX and he is richer than Musk, they haven't even send any person to space yet.
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@sangwaraumo not sure what you mean with "... if they're based on belief motivated by what is pleasing to imagine."
I disagree on your example "I hope I'll be famous like Justin Bieber one day." It's hope, it's wishful thinking." as I understand it, it would only be wishful thinking if you believed you'd actually be famous like Justin Bieber. I guess you could say that all wishful thinking is hopes, but not all hopes are wishful thinking.
"And why are you insisting on the Bezos thing, seems you're the only one caring about this Bezos Vs Elon stuff here."
Because you don't seem to care about other people or companies missing timelines, but you put in quite an effort to rationalize laughing at Elon when he does. How else am I supposed to interpret this? I gave you seemingly enough information on Bezos/Blue Origin, SLS, JWST, Vulcan and Starliner and you barely reacted. You said "If Bezos is going around doing that, then I'll also have my laugh when I see it.", to test that I keep talking about Bezos/Blue Origin. Additionally, I'm not doing any Bezos Vs Elon stuff, I am comparing Bezos and Musk as that is interesting given that their situations are so similar in this area.
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@sangwaraumo of course, as I said, I think you can say that all wishful thinking is hopes.
"And I'm not talking about Bezos because this is a video and topics about Elon. I've already agreed with you he deserves the same treatment if he does the same thing."
The thing is that I want to build on this, take the conversation further, and if not for anything else, context always matter. I am curious about why you are fed with so much information about Elon's missed/failed timelines, yet you seem to be unaware of all the other missed/failed timelines. Among other things, I wonder if there is some bias inside you, because you seem to trust negative things said about Elon, but not negative things said about Bezos/Blue Origin. You still say "if he does the same thing", even though I gave you a quote and a date: "Wed 9 Mar 2016: "Private space travel company Blue Origin expects to launch its first people in 2017, company founder Jeff Bezos said on Tuesday during a tour of the venture’s research and development site outside Seattle."". To add to this, what did he say about New Glenn? In the news 12th of September 2016 we could read that "We plan to fly New Glenn for the first time before the end of this decade ...", it has obviously not flown yet and their current plan says fourth quarter of 2022. Out of curiosity, how do you think "end of this decade" should be interpreted? Also, when do you think it is appropriate to drop the "if he does the same thing" bit and just say "he deserves the same treatment"?
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@sangwaraumo "Yes, there is a discrepancy in how Elon is treated. I agree to that."
Thank you :).
"But it doesn't make his claims less wishful thinking."
We went over the definition of "wishful thinking". It is not wishful thinking if you just hope it'll happen. I mean, the "claim" you are talking about isn't a claim, it is a plan, and an extremely rough one at that. Space plans pretty much always change, and you rarely if ever plan for something to take more time than it actually will, but that depends on if there is an actual strict deadline or not (like the Mars 2020 missions). There is a reason why the concept "NET", "no earlier than" in commonly used in the space business. What Elon says is basically that it won't happen before 2050, and that he'll work towards it happening asap. It really isn't as big of a deal as you make it out to be.
For fun, are you aware of how many years delayed the James Webb Space Telescope is? "Unaware of how badly understated the JWST Budget2 was, NASA management thought there was a 70% probability of launching in June 2014" (source: NASA). Yeah, that is quite many years ago and it is still not up yet. Fingers crossed it'll launch successfully this year.
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@abuafak846 I have, I am a big fan of the franchise! I still have half of the original series left to see though, I am savoring the last episodes I haven't seen yet :). Oh yea, I haven't watched the animated series neither.
I am not sure when the Star Trek logo used in this comparison https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1220942889708113926/photo/1 was created, but I would not be surprised if it is later than this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Air_Force_Space_Command_Logo.svg
You could argue that the Air Force Space Command arrow is too similar to Star Trek arrow, but that is setting a way too high standard. The only similarity is that both are pointy and have four corners, same as ROSCOSMOS, ISRO and CSNA (Russia, India and China space agencies. Google them if you don't know how they look already ;)). You could argue that NASA is the same as well, although its pointy thing is very thin so it could be more different as it has "no area". That is just how I look at it, when you investigate and try to take the most rational stance I don't see anything to be upset about.
"...Trump could't have an original thought if his life depended on it."
Not sure how I was supposed to get that from what you wrote. I am not sure if he is involved at all in designing the logo. I suspect not, and if anything he would have had very little creative input, so your complaint seems a bit unreasonable imo. I am just here to discuss the logo, not discuss Trump. Personally I think it makes perfect sense to have it very similar to the Air Force Space Command logo, because Space Force is just that renamed and branched out.
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@abuafak846 I wasn't referring to anything other than the shows use of the term POTUS, which I know because I have seen it. Also, "never shown on screen" is a common way to phrase this in TV. No matter if I referred to The Salt Lake Tribune or if I am unoriginal though, you were wrong about Carell playing Trump and you need to deal with the fact that you thought so and presented that as a fact. It doesn't matter how much you try to hit back, you were so obviously wrong and even you realize that. You were also wrong about me not seeing the show, but that is not obvious, so I can let that one pass. But I will scold you for claiming something you can't know, so shame on you for that as well. I liked the show btw, but some things were a little weird like them showing a Russian rocket when talking about when India sent a rocket in space, what was the purpose of that? Did you get that when watching? Or maybe you haven't gotten to that episode yet? Or maybe you don't actually know how the Russian rockets and Indian rockets look like? I wonder which site you will imagine I refer to when I talk about how this inconsistency in rocket display. This will be good, I am waiting for your next reply with anticipation :). If you have the balls to respond that is, which I am starting to doubt. You have embarrassed yourself quite a lot so far and I don't see you being able to repair that. Carell playing Trump, hahaha. You think I haven't seen the show yet you are the one that doesn't understand the main character. That is rich :).
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@Owen_loves_Butters you talk about those words as if they are not a part of the English language. It is not written in math language, i.e. symbols, it is expressed in English. The question comes in the form of English and thus people work their interpretation through the language filter. If people treat it as a normal interaction with English, you will get a different result compared to if they treat it as a purely mathematical thing. That is just how it is, something you can't deny. I am explaining why it happens and you are arguing for why it should not happen. We are talking about two different things. I really don't care if those implications are fallacious or not (it certainly isn't fallacious in English), all I care about is how to minimize miscommunication. That doesn't mean it isn't important to be proficient in the language you do your math in, it is extremely important, but let us realize what it actually is.
How is the picture not relevant? It is literally used to describe the question. Your claims are just so wild man. Completely off the hook. It is as if you actually have a desire deep down to not understand. Do you think that could be the case?
They could have poker cards and a question mark, so it is not a binary choice. Nothing is more confusing than people misunderstanding the question. We assume things all the time, and if we didn't we could not function, so to have this extreme view of that you may never ever assume anything is just counter-productive.
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@randomthings1293 "Even if you believe this partially , you're still definitely out of your mind, IMO."
That might very well be true, but I don't know how they defined partial belief so I can't say for sure. What I do know is that you misrepresented the source, and that is the interesting thing here. If they are as crazy as you say, why do you feel the need to exaggerate their beliefs? Aren't they bad enough as it is? If you exaggerate when making a point, it looks like you don't have a point at all, and that is sort of what I tried to get at with your usage of the emojies, it just oozes of erratic irrationality. You are not helping your cause this way, you are hurting it!
"If you know about some rational thing believed by specifically QAnonists you're free to let me know of it."
They talked about Epstein and his sweetheart deal before it got popular to do it, and they predicted that he would off himself under suspicious circumstances in prison.
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@chelseathezombie I want to make sure you know what I am replying to as it seems like you don't really get what I mean, so I try to be obvious.
Yes you have a point, but I have a point as well.
"You shouldn't hold the media to the same standards as the potus."
I wouldn't necessarily say that. I can vote for which politicians should have power over me. I can't vote out bad journalists. I.e. I have power over the politicians, but I have none (at least no formal) over the journalists. That is why it is extremely important from an ethics perspective for the journalists to never lie, never misrepresent etc. After all: "The term Fourth Estate or fourth power refers to the press and news media both in explicit capacity of advocacy and implicit ability to frame political issues. Though it is not formally recognized as a part of a political system, it wields significant indirect social influence."
"Woof kid, you're really grasping at straws to get me"
Yet you were the one that started commenting on what I said, so I hope you understand that from my perspective, you are the one grasping at straws "to get me".
"...but as of the current political climate, I'd say let's focus on what's more important, yeah?"
I won't agree to that, because I have no issue with concerning myself with both issues at the same time, in fact I think it helps to not separate them as they are so intertwined. There is always an argument for why it is the wrong time to tackle a problem, fall for that rhetoric and the problem will never be solved.
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@FancyCraffs because it is the same arguments that has been used over and over and over again for things that has for sure not been aliens. Nothing points to aliens, but it can of course be aliens, or magic, or God, or super intelligent squirrels from the core of the Earth. The things people claim to be "impossible" aren't impossible, it is just a certain hypothesis based on lack of knowledge of what has been witnessed, and of course you can dream up anything impossible when there is a lack of knowledge. I, for one, could be an alien for all you know. I could also be an alien that creates ten big bangs per second in my stomach, and I am also a time traveler, both forward and backwards in time, and I exist but also doesn't exist, and I can break all laws of physics, because what do you know?
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@FancyCraffs well, then I have looked at some as most of what is is someone else's perception, including testimony from credible sources. I have looked at things throughout history, I am decently interested as I said.
"I’m not sure people realize what they are saying when they say that anyone who thinks this could be extraterrestrial or otherwise paranormal are crazy."
As I said, it could be, and it could be super intelligent squirrels from the underground, and it could be God or magic. "Could" really is a useless expression here. The question is if it is or not, and based on the evidence what odds we give it. What odds do you give it? 50%? 1%?
"You are accusing scientists, soldiers, pilots, astronauts government/ intelligence officials of being incompetent and insane."
Not at all, as neither of them claim this is aliens. You are nuts though if you think any astronaut claims these are likely to be aliens. No human is perfect though, and intelligent people are not immune to believing in conspiracy theories.
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@thomasbecker9676 "I asked you to define success. Your response was ..."
I am not obligated to directly answer your question. Expressing a perfect definition with no flaw what so ever is basically impossible, thus I countered with asking if not becoming the richest man in the world would be defined as being successful, how do you define it? How does one become the world richest man without being successful?
"You mentioned no other metrics, so one can only assume that you use wealth as the sole measure of success."
No, the assumption you should make is that wealth matters. If your interpretation was correct, I would have said that straight up. The fact that I didn't should give you pause when you make your far too simplistic interpretation.
" Now you're backtracking on what you said."
Not at all, I am pointing out the errors in your interpretation of what I said. I still say it is impossible to say Elon is unsuccessful solely for the simple reason that he has become the richest person in the world based on the success of his companies. No matter what other factors play in to being successful, that is enough to determine he is. We live in a capitalistic system and he is capitalist 1, that is success baby, no matter how much it is a thorn in your, TF's and CSS's eyes.
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@thomasbecker9676 but I didn't say it was exclusively about wealth, that was an interpretation you made up based on your bias. Me pointing out how you are wrong is not moving the goalpost, it is getting you to not make things up, it is so, so much different. The way I cited wealth wasn't even by referencing it is a lot about it, only speaking about the wealthiest person alive surely has to be it. If anything, that indicates that I don't think it is a major component of being successful.
Again, you haven't answered me how a person becomes the richest person alive without being successful. That is why I make this example, because you will not be able to address it, and you haven't. Instead you try to make a straw man out of my argument and try to tackle that. It is kind of sad, really.
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@dreamer097 well, reptilian and flat earth ideas are great indicators of a person being actually insane or insanely misinformed, so it is understandably why these beliefs are highlighted. I am not sure if "The goal is to stigmatize skepticism" is fulfilled as they set the bar for insanity very high, which even leaves room for Moon Landing Hoaxers on the reasonable part of spectrum, I know I do. Regarding stigmatizing skepticism, it seems like the MSM is doing that a lot more effectively :P. I think the problem for most people who are into one or more "a little out there conspiracy theories" is that (in my experience) they are unable to have great, reasonable discussions about other (similar) topics. In the distinction between "misinformers" and "honest actors", it seems appropriate to add the category "actual crazy people" who latch on to most or every conspiracy theory they encounter. Which to be fair is a distinction you made, I just put a label on it to more easily talk about it. "Honest actors" should therefor be classified as "honest and rational actors" as crazy people can be honest. Obviously it can be difficult to know if a person is insane or just misinformed.
"... there is a singular truth ... which the misdirection aims to obscure."
And this is my question regarding Qanon, what is the misdirection and what is the collective belief of the "honest and rational actors" within Qanon (excluding the "actual crazy people")?
"... Q alleges there is a global shadow government which pulls strings behind the scenes in order to amass power and control ..."
Couldn't the effect that raises this suspicion just be an emergent phenomena of humanity exercising global capitalism?
"What Q gives more than anything is the hope that normal every day people can build power and effect change by working together to spread knowledge ..."
Do you understand how this can be seen as a coping mechanism for dealing with a harsh world?
Thanks for taking the time to write. I have no idea how to use the term Qanon, but I presume you understand what I mean when I use it :P.
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@nickbrough8335 What specifically are you talking about? You would have to be more specific for me to know what contract and mission(s) you talk about. While I await your reply, are you aware of this:
"Space Exploration Technologies Corp., Hawthorne, California, has been awarded a $297,000,000 firm-fixed-price contract, for launch services to deliver the NROL-87, NROL-85, and AFSPC-44 missions to their intended orbits." (Source: US Dept of Defense.)
This was awarded in 2019. That is 100k per launch, not 300k as you said.
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@justanothernick3984 "I'm not on Twitter but blocking people might already exist."
Block for sure exist, but that requires a lot of effort if a person wants to filter out 25% of twitter :D.
"And filters give the chance to have people write their stuff and that can lead to outing people"
I am not sure what you mean with this, so please elaborate if you feel like it :).
"I don't think you can say or write anything you like without consequences." well, the law is the law, and you could be fired for it, you could lose friends for it, but you should not be censored for it.
"And that will lead to banning as well."
Doesn't have to, if your crime is so grave that you go to prison, you won't be able to tweet. When you have paid your debt to society and have gotten out of prison, you should be able to tweet again (I mean, we do agree that you should be able to vote in open and free elections as an ex-con, right?). The tweet will of course be taken down, as it being up there would be like committing the crime over and over again. I am not sure why you are so comfortable with there being no second changes for people who do the wrong thing, do you think all crimes should have a life sentence as well? (colorful exaggeration)
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@101nemesis "Likewise, just because Elon donated money doesn't negate points I said."
It really does, as you pointed out the fact that he didn't donate those 8 billion is ultimate proof he doesn't care.
"I get it, I was a Elon fanboy as well, as recent as 3-4 months ago."
So you went from one kind of irrational thinking to another? Great. I am not an Elon fanboy. I really like SpaceX, I like Tesla and I find Elon funny/entertaining, interesting and like how he spends his money.
"And the reason they always do it is for optics."
So the very thing you ask for, the 8 billion dollars to save world hunger, you would just call that optics and say Elon doesn't care. This is the absurdity of your irrational thinking, that no matter what he does, you will say he doesn't care. You start with your conclusion and then try to find evidence to rationalize it.
"Are we gonna assume he's a good person because he did something for pure optics?"
You are the one that is assuming it is always only optics when a donation is made, that it can never be because someone cares.
"Stop acting as tho optics isn't a thing when it comes to any public figure."
I don't. You however is the one that needs to stop acting like it always is only about optics.
"I can still admire those companies without simping on Elon and acting like he's the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ. He's immensely flawed and not a good role model in any sense. If you want to look up to the actual innovators and workers in his companies, go right ahead."
Who are you talking to? Your past self? That ain't me, honey. If you have trouble with yourself, don't take it out on me.
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@kevincrady2831 "If anything, it's a good reason to cut their budgets."
You may think it is a good reason, but do you honestly think it is an actual reason for those who decide? No, of course not. All this can do is increase their budget.
"If there really are unknown craft that are able to accelerate from zero to supersonic in a fraction of a second, make no sonic booms, fly straight into water, etc., then no budget increase we could offer will do any good."
It is not about that, it is about increasing support for the military among the population.
"Either way, this ought to be a giant scandal. UFO's are the OG conspiracy theory."
It really isn't. The military is inherently secretive, and sometimes they are open. It is not a bigger deal than that.
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@moondrop7072 with "one of them", do you mean a Proud Boy? To me, it looks like it is the anti-Proud Boy who asks that. The Proud Boy complaints that they get called white supremacists and Nazis, and the anti-Proud Boy then says "who that's not a white supremacist and a Nazi".
It is quite tricky when it comes to answering ludicrous questions. By answering a question, you sort of legitimize it at the same time. The more you deny something, the more it looks like the denial is a lie. Also, just because someone asks you to do something, you don't have to do it. It is not good to let other people control you like that. A parallel here is those who got harassed at restaurants for refusing to raise their fists and say black lives matter, who happen to actually be BLM supporters.
Out of curiosity, you did see Enrique Tarrio in that CNN clip, right? Their leader. Funny choice of a leader for a supposed white supremacist group, I'd say :P.
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@NJ-wb1cz "Okay, so you admit you were writing bullshit."
Not at all, my point still stands as my error was as big and consequential as a typo.
"As for your genious conclusion"
I am not saying it is genius, I am saying it is so obvious everyone knows it. Even though you basically said the exact same thing in your comment comment before, you questioning it because I write it only shows you have no interest in understanding what I am saying. Again, look up and follow "the principle of charity".
"include drinking with your buddies at home and other random actions and possibilities into your danger perception comparison"
I am actually not really talking about danger perception, I only mentioned danger perception as a reason why it would be interesting to talk about danger per unit of time traveled. I just told you that, so why are you not understanding this? Also, this is too far removed from traveling. I find it hilarious that you take it to this absurd place when I just wonder what the danger of the travel methods are per unit of time instead of unit of distance. Talk about freaking out for no reason :P. I mean, think about it. For you to freak out this way, one might wonder if you think there is no difference in the danger of car travel when you drive fast compared to driving slowly. I mean, hey, it is the same distance traveled, right?
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@natelin no, you said:
"Pedestrians CAN walk everywhere, and they DO walk everywhere, and it is a driver's responsibility to avoid them; otherwise, it is considered assault with a deadly weapon."
You didn't talk about it being used as a deadly weapon, but that it is considered one.
"I stated that the concept of intent does not give you the right to attack people when you feel uncomfortable."
So how do you describe the right to defend yourself? You do know that there are self defense laws, right? If you are in a car, and you have people out to kill you outside it, you are allowed to drive away.
It gets really confusing, because e.g. when I write:
"In traffic there are just accidents though, with no aggressors."
You write "In traffic, there are definitely aggressors, e.g., road rage."
Which does not go against what I wrote. It just creates a huge mess of it all.
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@naiani9033 the thing is, you assuming I am a Fox News, Breitbart and/or OANN viewer/reader viewer kind of makes you seem a bit extreme. Suspecting is not unreasonable, but assuming only shows me that you got the wrong impression. If you got the wrong impression about me, I wonder whom else you have gotten a wrong impression about...
"It's not like a switch that, "oh man, I cared too much about homeless people, time to go riot""
Maybe not you personally, but there are people advocating for looting with the reasoning that "well they have insurgence anyway so... this is justified reparations", which arguable is an extreme position to take. Not necessarily morally corrupt, just extreme.
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@JediNxf7 don't shift the goalpost. I am not saying he was the most famous, I am saying he was famous. Not just B-list or whatever your categorization is. Frank Sinatra, FDR , Bobby Fisher and Jonas Salk are dead, so why would you even bring them up? Only makes you reek of desperation. Oh okey, he is not as famous as Jerry Seinfeld, I guess he must be an unknown B-lister then haha. Again, you have no evidence what so ever for your claim, you only speak about your feelings. Also, to even suggest that Stephen Colbert would be even remotely as famous as Trump pre 2016 is absolutely ludicrous. If I'd encounter a swede who knew about him back in the days I'd be impressed. Heck, even know I'd be surprised.
"if any of those people ... is on the red carpet in 2013, and Donald's limo pulls up, the cameras aren't on him."
That is not how you gauge how famous someone is.
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@Froggele I don't know what you mean with slippery slope :/. My point with the law is that there always have to be an interpretation of the text, especially the older the law gets. Precedents shows what other judges have interpreted the law as, which should ideally be the same and thus why precedents matters. Precedents is probably a thing in all countries I would guess, it is at least in Sweden, where I live. Why interpretation, by definition, has to be a thing is because those who judge the law is usually not those who write it.
As a side not I'd say that what the law is not the only thing that matters in this case. As laws can change, people can argue that laws should be changed. It is common that people chant while advocating for a change in the law, this is something we think is normal behavior. Sure, it makes little sense to change a law and retroactively put them in prison. Although I guess you could argue for it as we have many people who argue that e.g. weed should be decriminalized and those who broke that law (owning per personal use in small quantities) in the past to be set free.
In this discussion, it is not a question about what the law says though, but what the populous in question thinks, why they chant "lock her up!". Is the Hillary Email thing worse than the Ivanka thing? Are they hypocrites? I would argue that if the situations are identical, they are to some extent, although the "lock her up" didn't originate solely with the email thing. The email scandal became a thing March 2, 2015.
from: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/03/us/politics/hillary-clintons-use-of-private-email-at-state-department-raises-flags.html
The lock her up chant was born more than a year later described here (within the 15 first lines):
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/22/a-brief-history-of-the-lock-her-up-chant-as-it-looks-like-trump-might-not-even-try/?utm_term=.f0a854899e96
Would the crowd have chanted "lock her up"! if that was the only transgression uttered? I seriously doubt it. This is about much more than just the email. Remember how much they talked about Benghazi? ;)
So the #1 thing that people mention in the difference is the classified material issue:
"Throughout, they paid insufficient attention to laws and regulations governing the handling of classified material and the preservation of government records, interviews and documents show. They also neglected repeated warnings about the security of the BlackBerry while Clinton and her closest aides took obvious security risks in using the basement server."
from https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/how-clintons-email-scandal-took-root/2016/03/27/ee301168-e162-11e5-846c-10191d1fc4ec_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5d06d0b1e550
I have not seen anyone claim that Ivanka "paid insufficient attention to laws and regulations governing the handling of classified material". Maybe she did, but I just haven't seen it. If she did, I would be very confused why it would be mentioned by the media I consume as I consume more left wing media than right wing.
So this is where I would start this discussion! I have more impressions/understandings to explore, but let's start here :).
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@anthony7228 that is just semantics. Oppression is oppression, even if it is the law. I stand with those who want a country for themselves, be it Palestine, Kurdistan, West Sahara, South Sudan, Catalonia, Kosovo, Taiwan, Montenegro, Scotland etc. Do you honestly think it is odd for a country to split up in two when things are just not working out?
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@Spencerwalker21 you previously said "so you didn't have an argument just offense ... an argument on why voting third party over Biden helps the progressive cause."
To which I replied "if the alternative is not voting at all, voting all democrat except for president would be beneficial, no?"
And you answered "it would be better ..."
Yet now again you say "So you had no arguments just offense."
That is an example of the bad faith I am talking about. You are not talking to me because you are not listening to what I am saying, you are talking to your twisted idea of me. I would like to give you the advice of reading up on, and following, "the principle of charity", to get away from that destructive habit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity
Another example is this statement you made "even if people don't want to vote for biden we need to be careful and still express that you need to vote down ballot and for any ballot initiatives". When I express that I agree with you on this, instead of finding satisfaction in this, you instead scold me by claiming that I "... don't care about LGBT rights student loan forgiveness climate change fixing our Healthcare system ect."
Unless you surprise me and write something meaningful in return, this will be my last reply to you.
Btw, even Trump says LGBTQ, so maybe you should at least as well. You sound like a fake ally.
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@Spencerwalker21 actually it's not LGBTQA+, it's LGBTQIA+. You didn't say anything meaningful, but I had to correct you.
And since you didn't look up and apply "the principle of charity", I'll quote the description right here in case you are too lazy to look up a link:
"In philosophy and rhetoric, the principle of charity or charitable interpretation requires interpreting a speaker's statements in the most rational way possible and, in the case of any argument, considering its best, strongest possible interpretation. In its narrowest sense, the goal of this methodological principle is to avoid attributing irrationality, logical fallacies, or falsehoods to the others' statements, when a coherent, rational interpretation of the statements is available."
Maybe you should not have forgotten about the golden rule btw: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
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@Zelp789 "And he didn't even save them, so it was a PR stunt."
That is not how you define a PR stunt. A backup plan isn't a PR stunt just because it wasn't executed.
"And calling someone that is highly disproportate."
It was, but if you don't think both said things they shouldn't say, you are nuts. I mean, Richard Stanton (one of the two who discovered the boys), one of the leaders of the international diving team told Musk to continue developing the sub. That makes it an actual thing, not just some PR stunt.
"Musk is a clown and an idiot. China is cutting off access of rare earths for Tesla."
Has nothing to do with what we are talking about, so lets stick to the topic, OK?
You must be really mad now that SpaceX won the bid for the human moon landing system for the Artemis program, which saves NASA a ton of money. Were you a fan of the other, much more expensive options?
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@jasonk8190 again, this discussion is about selfishness, and selfishness is about intent, not outcome. It is not about what might be obvious to you, it is about intent, not outcome. That is why Kyle and Krystal aren't selfish, you have to look at their intent, not what you believe the outcome will be from their actions. Last time you said you understood that, but then went on to write something that contradicted that claim of understanding. Do you still claim to understand me? This discussion is about the definition of selfishness. Unless you define what selfishness is in your next reply, I am going to go ahead and ignore you because as it is now, this is a complete waste of time.
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@Raydaruckuz that comment was a hot mess so I'll just address the most important thing: ".and you seriously compare me, whos a nobody to one of the most powerful me in human history..lmao."
Yes, because if you were rich you would be a worse person than Elon judged by your actions. Money doesn't make a person good or evil, what is in their heart does, and your heart is so full with hate that if that hate had the resources to be expressed on a grand level, you would wreck more havoc than any billionaire out there. And comparably, you are much, much, much, much, much richer than a lot of people on this planet, and what do you do? Complain on the internet instead of devoting your life to actually helping people? Not only that, you are an active participating in the capitalist system that you seems to think is inherently evil for you to be able to say that Elon does more good than harm by default as you know little to nothing about the guy. Yes, you uphold that system, that system that oppresses people much less fortunate than you (good job btw). By your definition, you are as evil as they come. Instead you should not judge people by how much they participate in the system, but if they make the system better or worse. Elon makes it better, do you? How? Tell me.
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Regarding Warcraft 4. I think the best way to do it is a complete remake of wc1 story, like the movie. First contact is just so easy to do anything you want with. An easy way to make it pure fantasy, no panda nonsense etc. Orcs, Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Trolls, Gnomes, Goblins, Ogres. 4 good and 4 bad, now that is something to build on.
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@lirraakthedragon5586 "1) I actually said "in my experience" to begin with."
I know, but you should not treat it as more than just that.
"2) Yours isn't based on anecdotal evidence or personal opinion?"
I never claimed it was, my argument/claim should be treated equal to yours.
"3) no, good parents can't mitigate any better than a good school ... Out of the two, school is more important than parents."
Can you back up this claim with any evidence?
"You didnt counter my point, you offered up your own scenario and ran with that as the default."
Oh, then I wasn't clear enough. Let me counter it right now!
"New research from North Carolina State University, Brigham Young University and the University of California, Irvine finds that parental involvement is a more significant factor in a child’s academic performance than the qualities of the school itself." (Source: North Carolina State University)
"Parenting is probably the most important public health issue facing our society. It is the single largest variable implicated in childhood illnesses and accidents; teenage pregnancy and substance misuse; truancy, school disruption, and underachievement; child abuse; unemployability; juvenile crime; and mental illness." (Source: US National Library of Medicine, National Institutes of Health)
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@croixrennie892 "So you interpret this statement as "sell your house before it's too late, if you think it is too late very soon"?"
No, I am asking you if that is what Ben might have meant.
"In Shapiro’s argument, he’s already saying ..."
I am not talking about a literal interpretation of what he said, I am talking about what he means.
"You’re not really arguing in good faith bro..."
Ironically, you are the one who doesn't, as I described above.
"... the burden to demonstrate why your interpretation is the most accurate is on you…not me."
I can still ask you what your thoughts are about such an interpretation though, no matter what?
"Furthermore, even with you saying “sell your house before it's too late, if you think it is too late very soon”…EVEN YOU are still missing the point ..."
I am not missing the point, I am talking about another concept that is common among the "skeptical side of the argument". The one where those who believe in climate change should sell their houses to those who don't, if the threat is as real as they think.
Personally I am curious about what Ben said before and after that quote, as I always am when someone is criticized for a quote. Are you as well?
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@Mohamed Nail "how are we better equipped? Because of technology?"
We know more. The more you know, the easier it is to make the correct calls.
"I sense the fallacy of presentism here. Believing that things are more correct (whimsically) because it is recent and modern."
Well, then that is your error, not mine. There is a difference between saying that you are better equipped to do better and actually doing better.
"Well Muslims take their morality from the book and Hadith itself."
Try to argue your point about the perfection of religions without mentioning Islam. Let us instead talk about how perfect Hinduism is, seems like a more honest exercise. Now that is a religion of 100% truth and perfect morality, don't you agree?
"There is not much interpretation needed"
Even if that would be the case, that is not how religion works. Most people do not act the way you think, they don't read the religious texts, they project onto the texts what they want them to say.
"About the laws, if they are based upon the whims of the people and not an objective foundation, these laws are subjective."
They are always based on something objective, like a country's constitution. That is actually more objective than a made up religion. As I said before, let's not talk about Islam as that is just one religion in the vast sea of religions. It is easier for you to talk objectively about religion if you are further removed from it, so let's talk Hinduism. I don't know much about it, so let us together find out how true and morally pure it is.
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@hrs2044 "YT hid one of ur posts long before it hid mine"
Which one is that? Provide some evidence for your claim ;). They hid your second comment here, so clearly they hid yours before your false claim that they have hidden any of mine. Like dude, I have looked at it, you can't lie yourself out of this one.
"so they clearly saw ur attempts at derailing this thread long before"
That is not at all how that system works, so here you are against trying to interpret reality to fit your assumed conclusion ;). I really, really hope you don't believe your own nonsense here, that would just be sad.
"And yes, ur lame attempt at explaining why u brought up nuclear war is laughable as its neither related nor relevant to this thread."
That is your opinion, which is incorrect. You brought up "the real danger" and I responded to that, so the fault is on you. You are grasping at straws trying to save face here.
"My point was at least related, as you yourself admitted."
Mine was related as well as it was about the real danger, that is why I used it as an example. Related but not relevant.
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@hrs2044 "Ahh, so u admit youve replied to a hidden comment of mine before ..."
Even hidden comments often appear in the notifications, but not always. That is just how the system works. Also, didn't you claim I had gotten comments hidden, that you still replied to? You need to keep your story straight...
"derp"
You really should be above such commentary when talking about something you don't know how it works. Be humble.
"no amount of rationalization will convince anyone that nuclear war is in any way related to the topic"
But related to "the real danger", hence why talking about the real danger was irrelevant.
"Your attempt to shutdown this conversation"
You are the one that actually stopped talking about the actual subject, so it really isn't becoming of you too harp on about this. You dropped everything to just repeat bla bla "nuclear war" bla bla. That is on you, you are in control of your own actions.
"and make it all about what posts you can or cannot see"
Now this is an interesting twist. I informed you that there probably was a comment I couldn't see, as you can see how many replies have been made even if they are hidden. For reasons unknown to me you felt the need to turn that into something malicious. That really isn't good my friend, that really isn't good. This would be so, so much easier for you if you assumed I was a rational and honest person and then acted accordingly. Instead you misinterpret everything I say towards the malicious end and act accordingly to that, but that only makes you look bad as there is no malice from my part. This bad boy Snuffeldjuret is a complete figment of your imagination.
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@hrs2044 "hmm.. u didn't get a notification yet sumhow you had the foresight to post "hey I don't know if u responded or not, but just in case ya did, I can't see it""
As I said, I noticed that the amount of replies went from 19 to 20 or what the exact number was, and I suspected it was you who replied. I know that happens, which is why I asked.
"Please, just give it up."
Or maybe, just maybe you entertain the idea that someone actually might know something you don't know. Isn't what I say the most likely, the least complicated story? Why on Earth would I make this up? The story doesn't make sense if I am not telling you the truth. Have the decency to assume I make sense if you don't have the knowledge to determine if I do or don't.
"As for irrelevant things, how bout you not try to shut down the convo by bringing up irrelevant things like nuclear war, hmm?"
You started it by bringing up "the real danger". You really should drop that as you have no legs to stand on. YOu finalized it by continuously avoiding the topic and instead repeating that line. How you can't see this irony is puzzling.
"Take ur own advice and take responsibility for ur own obvious irrelevant deflection."
You are the one that keeps talking about the irrelevant stuff. Heed your own advice and just stop.
"Finally, I'm glad we can both agree that neither u nor the OP has provided any evidence of the claim that was originally made"
I never claimed otherwise. You should have assumed we agreed on that, but for some reason you went out of your way to interpret everything I said in a uncharitable way.
"therefore I remain both skeptical & dismissive until such time that any evidence is put forth."
And that is fine, like I just said. What I say is an error of yours is declaring that just because evidence isn't provided, the opposite has/ought to be true.
To reiterate:
"Evidence of absence and absence of evidence are similar but distinct concepts. This distinction is captured in the aphorism "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Often attributed to Martin Rees or Carl Sagan, versions of this antimetabole appeared as early as the 19th century."
Now finally do you get my point? I am not here to provide evidence for OP's claim (just like you), it never was, it was just to point out your erroneous logic.
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@hrs2044 "is the same reason u deflected with nuclear war"
Except I didn't deflect, you are the one deflecting by saying the conversation is now over because I responded to you talking about "the real danger".
"As for danger, you brought it up initially by claiming my way of thinking was "dangerous," so don't lecture me about not having any legs to stand on."
But that is relevant. When discussing what something means or is, having a predetermined conclusion is dangerous as that can cloud your judgement. This is things you really should know already, unless you have quite many years left in school. Maybe you have, and that is fine, but if that is the case, you really shouldn't be as confident that you know everything in life already.
"I simply replied with my take on what is dangerous."
And that is fine, and I replied how it wasn't relevant so I asked you what your point was, and then you went on your tirade repeating the same line over and over again avoiding the conversation.
"You can do it, but when I do it's wrong?"
Not at all, I literally said I did the same to show you in an obvious way how it is not constructive. I already explained this to you.
"And yes, I see ur point, so if it makes you happy I'll amend my original post"
That is all I ever wanted, you didn't need to invent this straw man of me with nefarious motives.
"and which posts ur able to see or not."
Do you really think it was wrong of me to say that there probably was a comment you made that I couldn't see? Really, is that what you are saying? You wrote it for me to see, right? So when I didn't see it, I made you aware of it. How on Earth can you complain about this?
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@hrs2044 "Sorry buddy but what I brought up was just as relevant as well."
And that is fine, but the way you want about it when you thought I said something irrelevant was completely different. I explained why I found it irrelevant, you shut down the conversation and repeated your line, ironically claiming I shut it down.
"Your opinion on what's dangerous is no less relevant than what I identified as dangerous."
That is a matter of opinion.
"They're both opinions"
Mine is actually a part of good practice, it is essentially boiled down to "don't jump to conclusions", maybe you have encountered it before.
"which it subsequently did."
You are too funny, that was all on you as that was your choice. You seriously have to kid me here, right? You can't honestly believe what you are writing.
"Pretending u didn't see my hidden comment was clearly part of that"
Just imagine being me and being correct, what should I think of you? That is the problem people like you have when you argue, you rely your entire rhetoric on something you can't know, and when you are in the wrong your entire facade crumbles.
"cuz u saw my first one and even responded to it."
The difference being that I got notification for the first one, not the second one. It really isn't that hard. The fact that you think it is absolutely impossible for you to be wrong shows you have a lot of growing up to do.
I'll leave you with this, follow this and it will do you good:
"In philosophy and rhetoric, the principle of charity or charitable interpretation requires interpreting a speaker's statements in the most rational way possible and, in the case of any argument, considering its best, strongest possible interpretation."
As the initial issue is resolved and you'll never come to terms with how much you misinterpreted me and refused to even consider what I wrote, I'll bow out now and give you the last word if you are desperate enough to have it (if the first sentence is fine, I'll even read it).
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@charlieestrada8829 "... you believe the spirit of the second amendment was to carry arms to prevent overthrow of a tyrannical government, yes?"
Allow, but yes, that is how I understand the intent behind it.
"... so why then are people allowed to use guns against, for instance, trespassers on their private property?"
That is a separate thing though, that is just about how much and with what force you are allowed to defend yourself with. There are laws regarding what kind of self defense is allowed in other countries.
"You say that nukes shouldn't be included as arms people may bear, because ..."
I think that is a fair interpretation. It makes perfect sense that the people should be able to overthrow a tyrannical government, but one person, or a small group of, shouldn't be able to overthrow a non-tyrannical one. Power to the people, not the rich guy with the nukes :P. Sure, they could take him out, but why actively create the thing you want to avoid?
"With that said, lets go to the other end of that spectrum.. how do you feel about hand guns? a standard 6-shot revolver would be pretty useless in overthrowing a government, wouldn't you agree? so should those be banned?"
That is an interesting question. While I believe that rifles are needed to have a fighting chance, I wouldn't go as far as saying that handguns are useless given that (and the reasons thereof) US military branches still utilize handguns as sidearms. Now if you ask me for my personal opinion, if I could wave a magic wand and make every single handgun disappear, I would.
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@sernik_z_rodzynkami I've read it four times, and I still think my question is valid. So if you can't explain your point further or even answer my question, I can only conclude you don't really know what you are talking about. I usually don't like to point out language skills as a thing, but I see your English is far from perfect, so do you think language can be an issue here?
"This time try to understand what the intentions of other people are, not what you want them to be."
Have you done the same for me? Have you read my comment four times and tried really, really hard to understand what I am saying? Don't ask of others what you don't do yourself.
Regarding your first comment, you wrote: "Imagine talking about "European culture""
Well, if you google that term, you get about 10 million hits (while "European cultures" only get about one million), so it is nothing you have to imagine, people do talk about "European culture". That quick look points towards your claim that "Everyone knows that it's actually English culture, German culture, French culture, etc." is not correct. Of course you will always find differences between areas, but if you want to be that distinct there is also no German culture, but different cultures within Germany, like Bavarian culture, so your claim still seems to be incorrect.
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@arthurdent9281 "That makes no sense."
It really does, because in the reality we live in, neither person came to any harm. Thus, something more would have to have happened for them to do come to harm.
"She never claimed ..."
I am not focusing on what she says. As I said, I am talking about how other people talk about this. Do you put in any effort at all to understand my point? I mean really, this is actually surprising how little you seem to care.
"Yeah, totally the same"
Again, I am not saying it is the same, I am saying it is similar. You do understand that these are two words with different meaning, right? I don't get what you think you gain by misrepresenting my position :P. Do you usually do this in discussions?
"You must simply be trolling."
Not at all, you just assume I am, and make no effort in understanding my point. That is on you, not me. Do better.
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@arthurdent9281 I was asking for assasination attempts. As I said, "They all get D threats".
"Anyone in any of the connected buildings was also in danger"
You say this, but when I press you on it, you refuse to answer how close in actual distance any murderous person was, and then you say she was scared. And again, you say they were in danger when they actually weren't. The only ones in danger were the police and the rioters. This is again the thought you can't grasp, for AOC to be in danger, more would have had to happen. The same with Trump, for him to be in danger, more would have had to happen. They both exaggerated their reactions, one gets mocked for it and the other gets empathy.
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@arthurdent9281 "I've already answered you.". In other words, you acknowledge that Trump is under a bigger threat than AOC, nice. That is important for my argument.
"It doesn't matter how close they got, because she had no way to know where they were, which is why it was scary in the first place."
So you did exactly what I said you do, you go from talking about her Being in danger to her Perceived danger. You are too much mate, too much.
"It's not even a little bit similar to Trump."
It is, because we know people want Trump dead more than AOC, and if they broke through security...
You have been unable to demonstrate how AOC was in any actual danger, thus she and Trump were in similar danger. Therefor the reaction where Trump is mocked but AOC gets empathy does not represent an actual picture of reality. That is the end of the discussion. I would say thanks for the talk if you actually had tried read what I wrote. I am sure you are one of those mega desperate people who juuuust neeeed to have the last word, so I'll give it to you (damned if you do, damned if you don't know, huh? ;)).
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