Comments by "Horatio82" (@horatio8213) on "Was Finland's "Continuation War" Pre-Planned? Eastern Front #WW2" video.

In the first days of Barbarossa Soviet air force attack still neutral Finland pushing it to war. Finland wasn't inform about Barbarossa, and without that bombings Finland could stay neutral.
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@ВячеславСкопюк How the hell you are not neutral when you allow to keep bases of two diffetnt counties on your teritory? You want to claim that Soviets didn't plan to use forces from Hanko, like Germans did with their forces? Try to keep neutrality when two former allies go to war on your land. In June of 1941 both countries knew that other one is preparing war against second one. Finland was squeez between. At the last days both side was planing use Finland as battefield. You can claim what you want but both III Reich and USSR were ready to use bases on finish teritory to crash Finland's independence. Only difference was that Germans offer help and Soviets just gather larg army at border. In both cases Finland can't do nothing to stop anyone from attack. I'm pretty sure that Stalin and Hitler will just take Finland, like Norway ot Baltic States. If you don't belive, that why soviet airforce lunch attacks on Hungary. Attack the same day like Finland this. At the same time Hungary in anyway participated in Barbarossa. Yes Fins were ready becase they knew what will happen after 22 June . Also they knew that Red Army was going to attack in the same manner like Germans. If whole Red Army can't stop Wermacht, what should do neutral country in Finlands situation?
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@ВячеславСкопюк Simple list, only few facts: 1)1939 Soviet Union invade Poland and Finland, in winter 1939-40 Red Army show how it is "ready" to war, 2)1940 Soviet Union "peacfully" annexed Latvia, Estonias and Lithuania, 3) 1940 USSR also annexed Besarabia from Romania, 4) 1940/1941After disagreement with III Reich about "sphere of influence" both regimes start preparations to war, german plan "Barbarossa", soviet plan MP-41. Also lots of other facts, do I making them up? Whole "sacred" story of soviet war with III Reich is a big propaganda lie. Just two bandits star fighting about spoils.
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@ВячеславСкопюк Then what you call Swiss preparation to fight with Germans in case of german invasion in 1940? Or what with swedish armed neutrality? Also you forgott about technical claim of Soviets themself that they are neutral in 1939 when they help with invasion of Poland! Luftwaffe use soviet radio station to navigate over Poland, what was part of soviet-german pact from 23 August 1939. USSR invade Poland in 1939, that is neutrality? German ships use Murmansk port in part of invasion on Norway. But the oficial claim is today is that the USSR was neutral before Barbarossa and WW2 starts at 22nd of June 1941! And you just dance around the fact of USSR was in final stage of mobilization to start war with III Reich and other countries like Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and Finland! Whole blaming Finland on mobilization sounds so absurd when you look on map wich shows deployment of Red Army nad Wermacht before Barbarossa. All arguments about that Finland is preparing to invade USSR sound the same idiotic in 1941 like in 1939. Where is soviet plan of defending against Barbarossa? Where is evidence that Finland can stops Germans or Soviets from using finish territory to attack eachother? "You can't prove that because even in this video you see contrast between how Fins operate at before and after 25th June!
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@ВячеславСкопюк First, Soviet Union keep bases on taken finish teritory, Hanko naval base forced by Mocov Treaty! And force major contribiusion that hit german interes included in soviet-german agrements. Germans just protect interest in Finland. What goverment of Finland have to do squeez between two totalitarian monsters! Second in this video lack of bigger picture of relationship between III Reich, Soviet Union and Finland after Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact. Anexation of Baltic States and international ciritic of Soviets when they attack Finland! Third, from start Soviets knew about german forces in Finland but protest when they realize that is not only small sentry forces but something more. Fourth. Finland was basicly pushed to war when both Germany and USSR preparationn to invade eachother. And for the last TIK forgett that Fins have support from UK and USA to stay independent from Stalin's rule. USA and England never agree that Finland is III Reich ally and for the long time didn't reconize soviet claim to land taken from Finland. And Finland go to war when Soviet bombs civilian targets, not germans units or bases!
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@ВячеславСкопюк Finland was neutral before and after Winter War, USSR force bases for Red Army in Hanko and block defence pact between Sweden and Finland. Take bunch of teritories and block trade, excluding only vital trade with Germany. By the way Germany was only other source of food for Fins, take it to consideration. Also everybody knows what happen when USSR places bases in Baltic States. Only way to keep balance, was take (forced by trade embargo) german offer of laeasing the bases and tranist rights on Fininland's teritory. Second options was just waiting for next soviet attack and do nothing. Stalin was outraged because Moscov treaty didn't say anything about german presence in Finland and Fins were not a part of soviet-german arragments and do not have to any obligations to obey them . If soviet units in Finland didn't mean that Finland was soviet ally, that what logic support your claim that german units broke this neutrality? Portugal stay neutral even aften leasing bases to UK and USA on atlantic islands in WW2. The same neutral USA in 1940 and 1941 place military bases on british teritories! Do you need more examples? Fins just stay between two bloody tyrants and manage to use them against eachother. Next false claim. Sweden didn't stay so neutral at all. At the time of invasion on Norway in 1940, Germans forced transit of materials to Narvik. The same happend after invasion on USSR in 1941. Transport from Norway goes to Finland by swedish railways! That cause power shift in swedish politics. On the other side soviet submarines also have no problem with attacking neutral swedish merchant ships. Next point is soviet protest was based on Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact, which state Finland as a part of USSR "sphere of interest". That also mean that finish goverment wasn't any part of this agrement! That was only imperial politics between Moscov and Berlin. Noone ask Fins about that! In any way they did not been obligated to do whatever Stalin and Hitler decide. I'm not claiming that Stalin was wrong in 1941-41 preparing to strike Hitler! It is sure today that Stalin's plan in 1940-41 was attack Germany and capture or destroy romanian oilfields! Stalin taking Besarabia and Bukovina give Hitler hint of his plans! There is many more evidence of that offensive preparation. Movement and preparations of soviet units long before german deployment to Barbarossa! The biggest lie is that USSR was preparing to defence! Where is that mythical defence plan for Red Army for 1941? There is no such plan, because it was never existed. Nearly 80 years ago Red Army prepare attack on III Reich and we know the name of plan, it is MP-41! Today also we know layout of sowiet armies but we still hear about mythical defence plan that noone seen till today! I ask you where is that soviet defence plan for german invasion? Can you give me source for that plan? The most stiupid claim you make is that when both countries (USSR and III Reich ) were enemies. Not really befor 22.06.1941. Using your logic Hanko base was enemy target for Germans! In that base was over 20 thousand of soldier and base was heavly fortified! When Soviets have base in Hanko and place large forces on finish border, Germans use economical means to put small forces in Finland. In the same time Stalin and Hitler talk about formal alliance and were cooperating in war against UK! About bombing on Finland, USSR were not at war in this time with Fins! Soviet or Fins didn't declare it! The same "accident" happen to city in Slovakia, then part of neutral Hungary! The same day, 25 June 1941!Maybe that was soviet mistake, but i don't belive in that. Formaly Finland and Hungary were still neutral in war between USSR and III Reich! But both of this countries never have problems with other countries neutrality, like Germans invading Belgium or Stalin "helping" Baltic States. But you will claim that befor 22.06.1941. Hitler and Stalin was enemies. Yeah right. And this enemies just politly slice half of Europe together. Final case is that Fins didn't claim or retake any teritory that wasn't finish property before 1940! They stoped on 1940's border! That was one of the many reason why Stalin didn't fully conquere Finland after 1944.
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@ВячеславСкопюк No, I just claim that between 22nd-25th June finish goverment try to secure neutrality. Both III Reich and USSR was ready to war. Both have bases in Finland and right to transit troops. At 22nd June Finland were forced to give Germans everything that was guarantee in treaties, the same obligations were given to USSR! But USSR didn't "ask" Finland about help in invasion on III Reich, for USSR Finland was next target like Romania, Bulgaria and Hungary ( bombed by soviet airforce at 25th June! When Hungary was still neutral!). Fins were prepered at both situation, if soviet forces were faster the Germans wiil be in disadvantage. Between 22nd-25th Fins operate only on own territory and give transit for german forces ( the same like neutral Sweden!). Fins just have no choice, but that don't mean that they plan invasion on USSR! Because they operate only in own territory. At 25th June after soviet bombings Finish Army joint to war against USSR, but basicly stops on border from year1939! Fins didn't help in blocade of Leningrad and probably that save the city. Even in 1944 they cooperate with Red Army to remove german forces from finish territory after the talks wit USSR! Finland were not in any way interested in attacking USSR in 1941 because for Finish goverment was obvieus that III Reich will lose the war. All operations were just aim to protect teritory of Finland from pushing to war, both by USSR and III Reich. But after 22nd and 25th June that was impossiable. You should look on book of Mark Solonin, maybe then you understad of situation of Finland in 1941!
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@ВячеславСкопюк Yes, there were some allied soldiers . Some polish soldiers from one of division that retreat from France in 1940. Oficially they were disarmed, but Swiss train them with swiss arrament. Swiss were so determined to defend own neutrality they even prepare to destroy whole infrastrucure if Germans attack. You still don,'t understand that before 22 June 1941 III Reich and Soviet Union were in allince and Finland have no choice but give the rights both this countries for transit and bases. Both have way to push Finland to corner, in 1939 Soviet use provocation to invade. There were no finish mobilization before deployment of soviet units on soviet-finish border. Soviets push Fins to mobilization and bomb neutral country, basicly they go with plan and try to invade Finland. But Germans were first and insted invading USSR was invaded.
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@chefren77 And in the same time in Hanko was base for Red Army, the same army that's try to conquer Finland in 1939-1940. In 1939 Moscov's negotiation Stalin eimply said that is impossible for Finland to stay neutral, only options was submit to him or to Hitler. Soviets all the time was pushing new demands for Fins, cut the food suplly and trade. In this case talks with soviet's ally that mean Germany, wasn't any way breaking neutrality. Fins have only choice to fall under USSR rule or lease some bases and transit rights to Germany, the same rights that was given to USSR! In this point there were no real danger of war between III Reich and USSR. That is reality, both USSR and Reich was preparing to war with eachother and both sides probe Fins about cooperation. In late June Finland didn't have any real option to stay neutral any longer. Start of Barbarossa means that on Finlands territory were two fighting armies, that day before were in alliance!
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Finish mobilization was response for massive Red Army concentration at borders before Barbarossa. That any case was the joining to Barbarossa. If Finland want attack with Germans it attack 22nd not 25th June! Fins do everything to protect independence and letting german forces was in this case way to defend it. Fins didn't know that in this time was going to war, in the same time german-soviet albo alliance was still strong.
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@popsey72 It is clear that Fins know about incoming soviet invasion. They didn't probably expect that Germans do it faster. I'm not big fan of Suvorow but in one he is right, Soviet Union was ready to lunch attackon III Reich, but Barbarossa go faster. Mark Solonin in his books show that clerly.
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@chefren77 Yes, but even Stalin and top soviet officials knew about incoming german attack, but he also know that Wermacht wasn't ready to long war and russian winter. Then he was thinking that Barbarossa in 1941 is a Hitler's bluff. But he didn't reconize how mad" was Hitler. Probably he belive that Germans was aiming for 1942 and that way he be ready to attack much faster in 1941.
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