Comments by "chris sonofpear1" (@chrissonofpear1384) on "Liberal Christians vs Conservative Christians | Middle Ground" video.

  1. I see no proof from Revelations that we will even be living, in heaven. On a perfected Earth, yes - in heaven, no. And why were medieval Jews not loved by Him? Not worth lifting a finger for, at times, it seems.
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  2.  @bladimirhernandez2983  Then tell me what the intention of Matthew 27:25 and 1 Corinthians 10 was, towards Jews in Christendom later. And the Curse of Ham's son, plus Leviticus 25:46, towards slavery later. And Matthew 5:18 and related matters, to gay people and what happens to them by DEFAULT or not, in Christendom? And how do people KNOW which interpreters have the Holy Spirit, and which are, say, errant popes, theologians, Inquisitors or other nutjobs? Unless that WAS part of the Lord's interpretation, somehow.
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  3.  @greenergrass4060  but half the time in history, one half of believers warred with the other half? And often seemed to hate them, too. But for many illiterate peasants, there was barely differences between them, on each side.
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  4.  @stephanycanales6350  Is she? If not, maybe she can EVEN answer WHY Adam can 'chose' for us, and if he knew or not, if he could 'give' away anything, to Satan...
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  5.  @tinkerinjones6604  Err - liar? Esau, Ham's son, the Amalekites, Gideonites, David's INFANT SON in 2 Samuel 15:18, perhaps - not so equally loved? And if Jesus was the ONLY ONE to do so, then why didn't He STAY INVOLVED with the main churches, more, instead of letting them screw up so much? What of the Bride of Christ, and what of Romans 13:1?
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  6.  @tinkerinjones6604  Err, so giving us a SIN NATURE before, birth, by what AN IGNORANT, human, did, hastily - this is nothing, like, programming, a robot, yes? or 'spiritual death', whatever the HECK that is. Can any ANGEL, give, or pass that - to another? And why did He SCATTER all humans, post Babel, when they were finally, ready, to all be taught? Give Satan ANOTHER head start, was it? Still not forgetting Romans 9:22, here, eiiitherrr...
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  7.  @naria2224  Qualify it, then - 'not necessarily' isn't good enough, here. And ordinary peasants and other people, and Africans, had FAR LESS free will, choices, options, or safety, than wealthy or closeted clerics, translators, kings, priests, Popes, and bishops - all of who, could DEMAND they go to war, for them, often against each other, and those who were essentially believing the same thing as them, too. And not even get to READ all the bible, in their own language, instead having it 'interpreted' to them - complete with Augustine's, own, unique take on 1 Corinthians 10, perhaps, and the word 'typoi', as well, as applied to Jews. Jews, then, within Christendom, frequently denied many basic rights and safeties, driven out, forcibly converted, tortured, mobbed, or having synagogues and Torahs burned, or caught up in pogroms, etc, etc. It's rather a LOT, to blame, just on free will, isn't it? Doesn't this God find some things DETESTABLE? And is willing to make that VERY clear, in writing if you were an ancient Hebrew? Or if you gathered sticks, on Sabbath? Seemed very... invested, in those cases, perhaps disproportionately, so. And what has free will got to do with letting TWO IGNORANT humans in Eden, 'chose' for if we inherit a sin nature, or be born 'spiritually dead', either - in ways no angel could ever 'chose' for other angels? Also, there are a number of Old Testament verses, that mitigate somewhat against the idea of us fully controlling our will. Maybe, though, that is not so, for the... elect...
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  8.  @Aliyaaaa  They're one union? I must have read a different history of the last 1200 years, then. Otherwise, fair play.
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  9.  @adriana12995  And yet it happens, and there was plenty of moral relativism in Leviticus, Numbers, Samuel and Joshua. Also, how proud were prior medieval churches, of their own bizarre degeneracies, that led to actual pogroms? Actual, d*mn, pogroms?
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  10. @Çaesar Talking of which, how is volitional marriages defined? Especially in say, Numbers 31?
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  11. Ignore them, Mymh001. They have no consistency. And I'll NEVER be lectured on love by the bipolar, egotistical imbecilic star, of Numbers chapter 14.
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  12. What was Numbers 5:11, precisely about though, @Blast ?
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  13. @Megatronix Why can't this God, do the same - or cancel Leviticus 25, before it becomes a weapon, in the hands of many priests, bishops, popes et al - you'll no doubt disown, despite saying that ALL Christianity is the same...
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  14. What does that even mean, and why was the OLD creation so flawed, that even heaven itself must be remade, per Revelations, @rachhh ?
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  15. On how they tell others to live, or vote, rather.
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  16. @Çaesar Whether volitional marriage, or not...?
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  17.  @naria2224  Also, why should these Jews TRUST this indolent, hammock slumbering new god, when He just turned a BLIND EYE, to atrocities, across half of His churches (assuming not disavowed, I suppose) against medieval Jews, and others? If WE DID that, would we be evil, or encouraging, evil? But hey, Isaiah 45:7 - and if it's in a city, and the Lord had done it, that too, eh? (Amos 3:6) And 'rise up' - you haven't told me where and how, and how far, and by what route, this demented, ignorant, suicidal rebel angel 'fell' first - or why he kept his powers. Was he owed, to?
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  18. ​ @mv4004  How many ruddy peasants got to ENJOY THAT LIFE within Christendom, then, amidst CONSTANT wars, either feudal, sectarian, or national, which invariably saw them fight EACH OTHER over mostly TRIVIAL differences, and even resolving antisemitism took CENTURIES to resolve, and was at times, for some churches, borderline official POLICY too? What kind of PRIORITIES are these? What, to prove that humans are flawed? I think we GOT that. So what is CHRISTENDOM itself supposed to stand for, if it can be as errant, divisive, hands off and unsupervised, as any other form of polity in medieval times, through to the 1800s? How EQUAL is this gift, really? And when did ANY ANGEL ever 'chose' for other angels, to make them spiritually dead, before their birth, too.
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  19. Agreed, @JS - most of them have NO IDEA of true progress, and wasted centuries fighting and killing each other, or doing so to Jews, left inadequately protected by a disinterested or sleeping in Jesus. It would seem.
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  20.  @studentofthesaviors.o.s  Why is it bad, and forcing captive women into marriage, somehow good? Be very careful where you stand on such things - especially if maintaining that God's ways 'never change'.
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  21. You mean like how many Popes and priests also did the exact same thing, for centuries, too?
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  22.  @fundash5124  Hey, none of US are going to wipe out the human race. There are as many heterosexuals as ever, and this may even be related to stemming overpopulation, across the wider genome. Why assume it's random? And I'd be looking hard, first, at whyever a demented rebel saboteur angel was able to get anywhere near human beings, first, ignorant, mostly about them - and also, keep any angelic powers, to boot.
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  23.  @nicholasgee9127  In the concept of the Pit, Sheol, or Gehenna?
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  24.  @michaal105  How do you define progress? And per Luke 13:24, how many humans actually survive, precisely?
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  25. Assorted bishops, priests, Popes and inquisitors did EXACTLY that for centuries, and got away with it too...
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  26. My apologies. Still, other such comments touch on this more, by yourself, I suspect.
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  27. Yes, Numbers 14 included. And you wonder why people doubt this god - heh.
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  28.  @ashtonrindlisbacher2262  Then why is Numbers 5:11 kind of condoning it. And we chose, NOTHING, in Eden, because most of us, were not, born, yet. And Adam didn't know who, he was, 'choosing' for. And no angel has ever been impaired by such a 'choice' before they even get born, either. So they're free will, must logically surpass ours.
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  29. Incorrect.
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  30.  @niallconnolly3123  You have your own 'societies' though, due to not being unified, yet. Remember, it's still Christianities, not Christianity, singular. And I am referring to angelic, ignorance.
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  31. @Çaesar Prove it. Prove it was equal. And comparable to angels, who got to chose a side, without any sin nature, impairment or curse? Or stealing of our innate knowledge about God?
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  32. @Çaesar Good, that'll stop the prisoners of war in Numbers 31 screaming, I guess...?
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  33.  @Gadavious101  So, progress toward what? Oh, but I forget, there is 'none that do good, not one'... Even Popes, left to make major, major choices for running large parts, of Christendom?
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  34.  @JH324  Why does God want a Heretic representing nearly half of all Christians? Does He WANT to lose? Oh, but wait, Matthew 7:18 implies few will be saved. Guess that explains it.
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  35.  @JH324  If there's gaps and evasions, is it absolute truth? Is it absolute truth that He often wants to lose? And why allow a heretic to use his free will to sway many others with lesser free will? Given, per Romans 13:1, they MUST obey the authorities. Even more so if most are implied to be chosen by God? And they'd never know any text was changed or reinterpreted, most times.
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  36. Leviticus 25:46, Numbers 31:17, 2 Samuel 15:18...
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  37. You mean, in IGNORANCE, much of the time, initially? And has ANY angel ever been able to make a similar choice, that can fundamentally alter the nature of other, not yet born angels, as Adam and Eve did, @Satinder Kaur ? And who should have been running major Medieval churches and their global influence, or not, if I may ask? Also, how DOES heaven even become a place sin and dissatisfaction and ignorance can even be conceived of, in.
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  38.  @Joshtell0013  TELL ME THEN, what that relationship WAS in 1572, and in assorted POGROMS, an Inquisition, and pro slavery apologetic, priests, then, please - not to mention numerous sectarian, wars, too... And are some PREDESTINATED - or not...
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  39. Yes, perhaps because Christians often don't believe in progress, @Sander Shano ? What with the idea of everyone being 'broken' and the world in chains, etc? Ah, so THAT's why Matthew 27:25, 1 Corinthians 10 and Leviticus 25:46, ended up quite the protracted MESS that they did, say. Pre all those schisms, and wars, too.
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  40. Christians don't even know what they are. The word has become too broad, vague, almost abstract or meaningless. Time we updated the book, too.
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  41.  @JBSkits123  Err, didn't we have to anyway? Would you put to death, a gay man today? Were Africans safe in the hands of some clerics, when discussing Leviticus 25, Exodus 21, or the Curse of Ham? Was all of that sufficient clear cut? And even many Rabbis say the 6th commandment mostly only applied to fellow tribe members, in Israel. And would a women have to marry her rapist, for compensation or otherwise?
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  42.  @JBSkits123  Do you agree with my conclusion, or not, perhaps? What precise STANDARD also even was there, in Numbers 14, 15, and 16, and Hosea 13:16?
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  43. @Çaesar And it's a free gift, with no duress, bullying, ways to turn it into spreading it by the sword, or altering one's culture, taking one away from their parents, and even encouraging one to 'hate' them, to some degree? And where do we live out this eternal life? Also, why did He care what Satan thought of people not yet born, to let him even near those people, disguised, able to possess or manipulate, or pose as a being of light? All after they receive hereditary impairment? That sounds like a mix of good, and bad, news.
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  44. Or to chose who to put to death, torture, who to chain up or enslave, which feudal rights or agendas to support, etc, etc, or Numbers 5:11, etc, @Bethany Davis ...?
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  45. Are you sure they actually met? And how did St James feel about Paul, also? At Qumran or elsewhere.
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  46.  @pflo7795  Interesting - and any post Matthew 27:25 discussion / follow up, too?
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  47.  @tinkerinjones6604  Aha. So, which churches teach WHICH version, of the theology, or or 'ransom' theory atonement, or much more? It's consistency and coherence, that can be a problem here. And is also worshipping another god, from birth or childhood, sinful, or not...
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  48.  @Aliyaaaa  The Christians? Which 'the' Christians? and this God MEANT us to be flawed - seemed to SET out, to make that happen. Also, the book is flawed, too...?
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  49.  @Aliyaaaa  Well, did it have to cost so many lives? Was the mess that resulted, less important than sentencing one Sabbath breaker, in person, was, for this God? Otherwise, I rest my case, here.
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  50. ​ @demounacortez330  How great? More important than lives mentioned in 2 Timothy 1:9, Jude 4, 2 Thessalonians 2:11, Romans 8:29-30, Matthew 7:13-14, and Romans 9:11-22, say, Demouna? THAT doesn't look very great, OR merciful, to me. And wasn't heaven where sin, ignorance, and suicidal pride, and imperfection itself - actually BEGAN, too? Even prior Eden? Why was it flawed... Or more important than medieval Spanish Jew lives, either, who were ABANDONED or neglected, to atrocities, often by 'priests'...?
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  51.  @jo53ha  Chosen WHO. Specify WHO, and HOW MANY too. That means others were DECHOSEN by your implication, as well, or for a fate of wrath or of dishonour. Seems like you and assorted theologians must pick and chose, how much of this to define, also.
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  52. @god first bro Also, thank you very, very much, for your comment, and my regards. Let me know, if you want a word.
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  53.  @chingli528  Funny, I think I'd have to say one who FAILED to make stable angels, and a perfect heaven, and lets rebels KEEP powers, tells Adam nearly NOTHING about them, or the stakes to MORE than two lives, or that he could 'give' Satan Dominion of... anything, at all, is not necessarily fully perfect. Or CONTINUALLY resorted to violence, and even BRAGGED about it, in Hosea 9 and Zephaniah, to accomplish goals, either, may seem a little off the mark, for potential perfection. Also, was direct, VERY clear cut participation and intervention, in Numbers chapter 15, during a capital trial, a ONE OFF thing, in that case? When compared to much LARGER issues involving schisms, Pogroms, wars, pro slavery interpreted verses, Inquisitions and sectarian conflicts, that is? Did they merit, LESS direct, and clear cut, pariticipation, by comparison? And when has any angel been able to 'chose' for other angels, before they are born, or make them impaired, in nature, or cursed, or cut them off, from God? how does free will work for them, by comparison - and what is a 'natural' angel, when compared to a 'natural man'? And when are some 'predestinated', either?
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  54. Then FILL IN THE GAPS in it, first, I STRONGLY suggest, by now. And currently, the idea the God in the Sermon on the Mount is the SAME one from Numbers 14, 16, and Joshua 7:24, and Hosea 13:17, is PREPOSTEROUS to many, @kahluaPJ .
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  55. At very least, the OMISSIONS in it, can longer be given short shrift, for one thing...
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  56. @Megatronix You may want to read all of Numbers 14, 15, 21, and 31:18, for example - or Joshua 7:24, Hosea 9:12 and 13:16, 1 Samuel 15:3, or 2 Samuel 15:18 - and Exodus 21:20 - Leviticus 25:46... Oh, and Romans 1:18 to 1:30 needs a LOT OF UPDATING, with it's claims and particulars...
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  57. This is a lie sadly, @Jeff lopez . Just look up the harm ONE translated differently word did - typoi - in 1 Corinthians 10. And such human faults - ahem - soon led to international catastrophes, and also pogroms?
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  58.  @MrJeffworksalot  And how united did all of that STAY after Paul died, or when Augustine came along... and with his own slant, on what 'typoi' translated to, that influence multiple Popes, Calvin, and Luther?
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  59.  @MrJeffworksalot  Then unite all the rest of it, and the Jews, too. It seemed even if the church survived, the BIBLE did not do so, without major alterations. Just ONE altered word, in 1 Corinthians 10 (Typoi) did IMMEASURABLE damage to much European Jewry, for example, for centuries - and for otherwise little gain for anyone else, that I can easily infer. As well as how easy it was to 'pervert' Leviticus 25 and Exodus 21, perhaps.
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  60. And why did God want that to happen, and let it so easily happen? And how many lives did it maybe cost, @Nicolas Bradford ?
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  61. And Pope Gregory XIII, Torquemada, Calvin and Luther, were far better, I assume, @ccook2010 Romans 1:16 ? Also, was 1 Corinthians 10 and Matthew 27:25, SUPPOSED to lead, to the somewhat of a sh*tstorm, they did, by 1200s AD onward? Or was it a mistake? And what becomes of gay people, by default, post Matthew 5:18? No talk of even offering a... cure, there.
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  62. Christians, theologians, bishops and more (and Popes) have been doing that, for centuries, surely, @Solomon Louis Gashumba ? And were not forstalled in doing so, either, even when ghastly pogroms resulted.
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  63. @Çaesar Could you narrow it down a bit? And who is the glory for, and to what aim, if most are not saved?
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  64. And yet it has - oh deary me. A few times.
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  65.  @sashabowman204  And for NON HEBREWS, please? And why was it NOT important that all senior clerics be made VERY clear that all were free in Christ, foreigners, slaves, or not? For centuries, of Christendom's, variable, rule...
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  66.  @evawilliams3611  Other than Jesus and Paul, maybe, yeah.
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  67.  @adriana12995  Again, because God wanted them to - and had something to 'prove' to Satan, by initiating all of this? Ignoring the fact that people can conceive ethics and even some idea of holiness, without the Spirit, historically?
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  68.  @gabetalks9275  But nobody is saved yet - definitively. Also, your opinion on Luke 13:24 - and 1 Corinthians 3:13? Shortly...?
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  69.  @adriana12995  Why COULD they twist or ignore scripture? And sometimes, sorry, it doesn't always SAY MANY clear things, about some topics. And Romans 13:1 gives them considerably more leeway, curiously, to do so - and many often seemed to assume it WAS what God seemed to want, oddly. As for things that are just NOT COVERED by the book, as yet...?
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  70.  @gabetalks9275  We were put into JEOPARDY in the first place, why precisely? And impaired in ways NO ANGEL ever was, prior to birth, why also? And HOW much of nature can or cannot Satan control, influence or distort, post Fall, and make how much of nature NOT always seem clearly, the hand of a single architect? Also, will all want to be near to the Father, if He does not always seem... fatherly...? And has which arrangements, with Powers and Principalities? Also, uses Satan, or trusts him at all, to 'test' anyone - why?
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  71.  @gabetalks9275  Also, was there such a thing, as a perfect Heaven, originally, upon initial role out, either? And I recall the original definition of sin was 'to miss the mark' - and that was all?
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  72.  @gabetalks9275  What... choice... would this be... exactly? And what is giving us an inheritable 'sin nature' and impairment that NO ANGEL ever got, passed down GENETICALLY, and termed, in some translations (somewhat disingenuously?) as making many 'natural men' per 1 Corinthians 2:14 - if NOT some form, of robot like, programming?
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  73.  @gabetalks9275  Prove to me Leviticus 25:46, and Samuel 15:15, and Numbers 31:17, are wholly good, first. And that Adam and Eve had any CONCEPTION yet of what disobedience means, with no idea of good or evil, yet? And if so, why were they being put into ANY position to 'chose' for people not yet born, that would in future, impair them, mentally, and genetically? And make them 'spiritually dead' - that I am not sure ANY OF YOU can properly define, yet.
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  74.  @adriana12995  Also, may of you cannot define when the word homosexual, was first added into the Biblical translations, I note? As opposed to prior terms like arsenokoitae, and related concepts, like pederasty, and temple prostitution?
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  75. Kind of worthless, isn't it, @Gerardo Godoy ? Paul's imaginary pagans, in that, are not BORN aware of the Fall happening, or of SOME of nature being hijacked, corrupted or perverted, post Fall, by Satan or Adam, were they? So they'd not see the CLEAR hand of ONLY one god, at work, in VISIBLE nature, alone, perhaps.
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  76.  @melissa-c4x  This God, GAVE SATAN, his powers, let Him KEEP them, and told Adam, nothing about him, however? Or of good, evil, death, the wider stakes, to more than two lives, etc, etc. Interesting - has ANY angel been asked, to 'chose', and for other angels, in such a way, then? And you lot are currently 'progressing' in circles, more and more, and have been since your wretched wars, schisms, pogroms, and more, sadly. Maybe it IS time some women got to preach, for a change. Bring in, new blood.
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  77.  @melissa-c4x  Liar, I'm afraid - 2 Corinthians 11:14 - 'And no wonder, for even Satan masquerades as an angel of light.' And may well pose as OTHER GODS too, back to Babel or before. And how are those BORN into scattered tribes and cultures, long, long ago, with their oral history DESTROYED at Babel, to know which is the 'real' one or not, or not be misled? You lot, CONSTANTLY, claim all other gods come from the Devil and his angels, so that, CONSTITUTES usage, of powers. And what of possession, either. And 'kicked out' TO where, how far, and by what route, and why KEEPING, any, powers, such as above.
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  78. Who knows? If that was what they were meant to say, then preserving them clearly does not seem to have been a major divine priority yet, @Rissa .
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  79.  @4jgarner  What of omissions? And were forced marriages of prisoners of war ever holy, or not? And what standard IS in Joshua 7:24, Hosea 9:12 and 13:16, and 2 Samuel 15:18, or 1 Samuel 15:3? Also, not forgetting KJB, Amos 3:6...?
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  80.  @wesleyelliott1603  So why did He BLOW HIS chance to often sway many, ah, medieval Jews, then? Such as in Spain?
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  81. And where were angels or other divine staff to oversee and avert, such misinterpretation? Especially of a g*d d*amned Inquisition?
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  82.  @insert_username1391  Well, beside the predictions (other than 'unsound teaching' will spread far, which may have happened as early as 500 AD or sooner) what about the actual management of the translations and interpretations? Which churches or theologians were best guided by this, and did any such guidance cease to occur, before schisms, wars, pogroms etc, began to arise? In certain places, of Christendom. And when I say guided, I of course, mean by beyond human means, alone.
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  83. Yes, so WHY is it that it can be so varyingly, not to mention, at times, worryingly vaguely, interpreted, @Jimithy Smarmar ...? Or indeed, any who'll deem to answer this.
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  84.  @smarmar400  Interesting thought, yes. As it often means they just SKIP right over God's implied characterization in the former, and what anyone is to make of it. Even with Matthew 5:18 flagged up, right in the same text. Obviously, it also raises big issues about how God would WANT things translated or not, too, or to what extent could 'control' how it went...
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  85. Errr.... why would God... WANT them to be... able to do that... or change the book... at all? Why assume He'd be impotent, about it, @Dannon Olsen ? And that's hardly a straightforward idea of free will, letting such changes occur, either.
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  86.  @hennaahlgren4057  Err, then finish it, first? There's lots that seems to be missing, or very skimmed over. And why is Satan owed anything, post exile, again? Also, did Adam know of the wider stakes, or that God even had enemies...?
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  87. It got in the way of many others, over the centuries, and left several messy results, did it not?
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  88.  @Chuby_ubesie  Only after immense and hypocritically imposed suffering, though? And I note the Ethiopians have had their OWN Hebrew style traditions, since Solomon's day, and that some still do.
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  89.  @Chuby_ubesie  Fair enough, but please COMPLETE it some time? And send missive back that 1 Corinthians 2:14 and Romans 1:20 are far from complete thesises, either?
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  90.  @sashabowman204  What anti Christs? Half of Christendom became 'anti Christ' in one way or another, with the book not even READABLE to most of the congregations, for centuries, and this God deemed it less critical to do anything on, than turning up in person, to convict ONE Sabbath breaker, in Numbers 15....?
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  91. @Megatronix Dictates being the right word...? And dictates that Christians are PRE CHOSEN before the Womb, at times, so only some, will ever be, Christians, maybe...?
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  92.  @michaal105  Why could Satan revisit Heaven, incidentally? And why was he seemingly trusted with more knowledge of good and evil, than Adam? Would Torquemada also consider himself good, or merely be unclear if he was?
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  93. Well, is the Holy Spirit, also, available for comment? And on how much interaction there was, with say, Gregory XIII, Augustine, or well - Torquemada, @Fancy Schmancy ? Just wondering, there.
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  94. Too late - far, far too late.
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  95.  @sunkyokim6052  so did Popes. Cry me a bloody river.
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  96. Can you back up, then, who He is with or not, RIGHT NOW, @rubyponce - I mean, at this very day? And how firm was Torquemada's faith, or Gregory XIII, and is it possible they should not have held their positions, at the time? Given the major harm, each did.
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  97. Nor was he, apparently. How odd. How did heaven become flawed, also.
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  98.  @jacksonkarlson234  What do you mean by righteous? And why could Satan ever LEAVE HELL and visit God, to discuss Job - if he was, sinful. And is the same god as now the one in Numbers 14:45, or not? Because I have REAL trouble, believing that. Also, why would any pogroms be tolerated, to greater extent than gathering sticks on Sabbath ever, was. And sin means, to MISS the mark, which is what Adam was INTENDED to do, yes?
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  99. @Κύκλωπας What about 2 Timothy 1:9, and Jude 1:4, and Romans 8:29, also? Or 2 Thessalonians 2, and 1 Corinthians 2:14. Or statements about 'reprobates' and 'carnally minded' people. Also, do you know what Arsenokoitae, means. There's a lot more in there (Paulline stuff included) than on simply loving a neighbor. Which can be a somewhat broad, or vague, term. And were gay people neighbors, and what WAS by default, to happen to them after Matthew 5:18, anyway.
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  100. @RedTape And for many other things too, including to children, for just AIDING a looter, in hiding loot, or being part of a HOUSEHOLD, that badmouths, Him? (Joshua 7:24, Numbers 16:27) and also curses a kid, to die, for just being fruit of an adultery? (2 Samuel 15:18) But why the heck am I bothering with you, motor mouth?
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  101.  @gavinbyrne6802  And He KNEW Adam was going to choose wrong. And we were impacted, impaired by, that choice. So it wasn't, OUR choice, or our own, unimpaired free will. And why is the freewill of errant church leaders, Popes, and inquisitors, more important, than their victims. Many of who, could not even READ these 'words of wisdom', that were selectively presented to them. So much, for equal offer, of salvation, I guess.
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  102.  @tinkerinjones6604  Where are you progressing to, then, and why do schisms, occur, and is Catholicism, an accident of God's design, or not? And how would you convert Jews, today, without using powers - or explain, why their safety, in medieval Europe, was a lesser concern, of this Jesus? Apparently... Also, Matthew 5:18 - ahem.
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  103.  @tinkerinjones6604  Only SOME are, and those who were LUCKY enough, to be given the choice, without being deemed 'god killers', part of a blood libel, or seen as part of conspiracy, against Christendom. Which then led, to CENTURIES of pogroms, Inquisition, and persecution. So what didn't He care, about that? And why do nice ROUND fractions of us, have to be WIPED out, in a Pre Tribulation, disaster, just so He can unveil wrath, against SOME unrighteous? Does merely following a different God (often born into those relations) or a different VERSION of Him, or his Gospel, taught to them, make people unrighteous, too?
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  104.  @tinkerinjones6604  Also, didn't He make Satan's actions, his whim, to test, tempt or destroy humans, quite a bit easier, by throwing all into that situation, before Adam was barely equipped, to make such a choice? That impaired or ALTERED human nature, and will, in ways no angel has ever been able, to do, to another?
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  105.  @tinkerinjones6604  Heartwarming? heartwarming would be NOT HAVING f***ing Pogroms and Inquisitions in the first place, say, or whatever bits of 1 Corinthians 10 Augustine TWISTED to his didactic ends, against Jews, too. That would be a great help, for one. Or the slavery apologetics. Or failing that, SOME kind of clear, divine action - not merely human level - during any of the above. Deep seated issues, indeed. The horror stories, some could tell you - and that's leaving out all the pogroms, altogether, too.
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  106.  @tinkerinjones6604  Aha - and WHICH VERSION of these Gospels, and god, is it? And why should I BELIEVE the God of the Beautitudes, is the SAME RUDDY being as from Numbers 14:37, 15:32, 21, 31:17, Joshua 7:24, Amos 3:6, Hosea 9:12 and 13:16, or 2 Samuel 15:3? Or Leviticus 25:46, either? And we were BORN UNAWRE of which or how many gods even EXIST, because of what Adam did - in a way NO angel, in THEIR free will, has EVER been. And we are born, somehow, with a 'sin nature', too? Well, was Gandhi good, despite that? Guru Nanak? Siddhartha? I can judge, somewhat, too, INACTION, as well as action, when it comes to ethics - at least, in theory.
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  107. @Çaesar So did certain Popes, too, or something? But when THEY make mistakes or pursue ghastly policies, they do not get censored for it, or called out? Also, how did sin even emerge, in a realm pervaded by God, even if angels, do, have free will?
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  108. @Çaesar A jealous God, who gives sneak previews of how few survive? Yeah, I guess...
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  109.  @wesleyelliott1603  So why would He also quote Luke 13:24, then? And all this Thessalonians 2:19 business.
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  110. What about the MISSING bits, though, @KeiaJohn 4:15 ? And also, what KIND of marriage was described or endorsed, in Numbers 31:17? Consensual, volitional marriage, or not? And how does ANY ANGEL at all DEVELOP a sense of suicidal pride, ego, ignorance of the basic nature of God, in a realm where ALL HIS invisible qualities, are FULLY visible, and suffuse heaven? And even conceive of dissatisfaction, in their role, and in God's presence, at all. Let alone be permitted, to keep their powers, post exile, into reach of the one world above all, they most wished to harm.
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  111. Why deserves it? I thought we ALL deserved it for being born with a rebellious mind or flesh nature, per many theologians, @Benny Wolfe ? And did many medieval Jews, deserve... their fate?
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  112. From WHICH GOD precisely, @Reggie Yesufu ? And why did many POPES and Calvin and OTHERS get to act on their feelings, or spread feelings, or racialist, bigotry, and paranoia, and pogroms? We need some sense of proportion, there.
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  113. @Çaesar Have you answered my question yet about why I should back a plan that wipes out most of humanity, though? And why did He go to great length to hide himself? When all angels knew which god was which, and could freely choose, a... side?
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  114. If that's how He wanted it mistranslated, then why should we clear up His mess, @Taylor Maxwell ? More cases of free will favouring some, over others?
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  115. @RedTape Why did any angels not believe He was who He seemed to be, then, whilst in his actual PRESENCE? Where the 'invisible qualities, clearly understood' were NOT even invisible, and even more understood? And why could Augustine twist it, or Gregory XIII (presumably) or Torquemada, and not be so stopped.
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  116. What ARE we progressing toward, then, @bre , and will it just be a Blessed Remnant, again? Because there's no momentum, clarity, feedback, or saying why Inquisitions do not get the Numbers 15:32 treatment, intervention wise? Try to be more specific, please. And when did Paul, James or Peter ever say Christians would rule much of the world, before the Last Days, too? That sounded worth at least a chapter.
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  117.  @kaitlynbarlow7903  What is the Justness about? Joshua 7:24, Numbers 14:26, Hosea 9:12 and 13:16, and 2 Samuel 15:18, included? Why is infantic-ide, ever a just or proportionate response, for a God?
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  118. @Çaesar Then why did any of it get distorted, and how much of Romans 13:1, should we take, on face? Also, how much of nature was altered or partially controlled, post Fall, by Satan, or not?
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  119. They're nearly the same THING. So who should we fear, say, in Numbers chapter 14? Who was acting more like the devil, there.
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  120.  @amaraduran3589  How do you know which God is talking to you, and that the SAME GOD was also in Numbers 14, 15, 16, 31, Joshua 7:24 and 1 Samuel 15:3, though? And what about Amos 3:6? 'Shall there be evil in the city, and the lord have not done it'? And sin began first in heaven, did it not...?
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  121. About the ONLY time it ever came up though, isn't it? And they pretty much wipe out Moses' in-laws in Middia, a few chapters later, @Anita Hammon ?
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  122. How do you prove you ARE born again, then, @quaid darnell , and where are, your powers.
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  123. Nor do many conservative ones explain why Satan was owed anything...
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  124.  @fionaampofo8359  Which bits, and also, which Christology is currently the right one? Also, when was Leviticus 25 going to at all be relevant, again, post 70 AD?
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  125. And for all those Spanish, Medieval Jews to die, @Caleb Brown ? And why might that be.
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  126. You are ALL NOW ON TRIAL - and that includes your sodding elect, and those not supervised, to treat people fairly or ethically, in leadership function.
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  127.  @jadenthiviyan1271  And should we care, any more, what it says, always? And how OLD WERE Achan's sons, and daughters, and what fate, did they get, thanks - and why are SOME wombs fit to be dried up or forced to abort, in Hosea 9:12-16...
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  128. @Çaesar Got much of the idea from prior totalitarians who controlled much of what was published or could be written, did they not? And they too, sought utopia on this world, or the next...
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  129. Yawn, sort out your own schisms first, and apologize to many Jews too. I mean, seriously, why should they ever trust YOU?
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  130. Maybe you should add the missing bits, about why Satan is trusted with any roles, after being proven a deranged, suicidal rebel, in heaven, @Youtube please do not censor us ? Also, regarding when marriages are coerced, or not?
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  131. And what of Jehovah? And the term Elohim? And Genesis 4's definition of how atonement works?
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  132. Not remotely f***ing impressed at all yet, @Joshua Brady . Go and read Hosea 9:12-16 to us, please, or Joshua 7:24, or tell us which non Hebrew women can be kept for LIFE sometimes, and bequeathed to relatives...?
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  133.  @Joshtell0013  Go, and READ IT - please. Including the bits, on infan-ti-cide...
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  134. Then you chose how to work with slaves, then, in Leviticus 25, and Exodus 21:20, @Vica B - as well as what kind of marriages are PERMISSIBLE, even coerced, ala Numbers 31:17? Also, how old were Achan's CHILDREN, again, in Joshua 7:24 - and what fate, did they meet with.
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  135.  @Farm-chitect  But, He's the SAME, being. And is COERCED marriage, a sin, or not? Or stoning, kids... Have you READ those things... simplicity, here. Truth, honesty... integrity: they demand, an answer, to such...
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  136. Hasn't that already happened, multiple times over, @Jazzy Furious Destroyer ? Including Calvin, Torquemada and Gregory XIII? A freaking Pope, no less. And when I DO ask many of you about teachings, doctrines and further details, why are the replies often so vague or messy?
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  137.  @airforceveteran379  So why didn't so many angels NOT know basic things about Him, not fear Him, and get easily mislead by a being who could NEVER logically win, in a realm pervaded by His presence and knowledge of, Him? And why let them keep any powers, post exile.
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  138. Maybe you should all sort your assorted ongoing identity crises, then, @Jessé Levy Vieira ? Also, at this juncture, precisely why should, for example, Jews trust you, at all?
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  139.  @trinityprofessor  They have to understand who He IS FIRST, and what it all means - and that somewhat relies on you explaining, and embodying Him, correctly, yes? And after how APPALLING, nay, DESPICABLY they were treated across much of Europe, for centuries on end, by Priests, Inquisitors, several Popes and an number of papists, in Spain, and elsewhere, why should they trust your offers? Will thou at least explain WHY ALL of it was necessary? And had they ever had any experience, either, or expectation, that God was at all divisible, into three parts, or would ever use a form of human sacrifice, again? And once again, I note that sin, ignorance and dissatisfaction, plus evil and suicidal pride - all began FIRST in heaven; which is it itself, rather, rather curious. Almost... inexplicable.
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  140.  @studentofthesaviors.o.s  Then this God has REALLY screwed up His messaging, if that was supposed to be the obvious take away from it. I mean, first He doesn't know angels are going to rebel, then that Adam doesn't know enough to chose for others - maybe that you don't let more rebel angels come down where they can breed with people (Enoch, assuming canonical) or that you CANNOT leave major clerics and church leaders unsupervised, too? Especially Augustine, and his little slant on 1 Corinthians 10, maybe. And who is this WE? Those at Babel? So He DESTROYS their oral history, scatters then, leaves them even MORE ignorant about the disguised rebel angels He equipped and dumped here, and lets THEM wield their fairly unimpaired, powers, and will, on the further impaired people? For building a bloody tower to heaven, that would never have reached it? He could have done ANYTHING with them, with patience - taught them, led them, schooled, demonstrated, had them tend the land, etc. Yes, it's NEVER his fault or responsibility, is it - despite he can see the future, and we can not.
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  141. And WHY WAS that, and why was Satan OWED any access, to this world, @Owen Communications ? And if Adam was NOT to know what good or evil was, or death, or the stakes beyond to two lives, or that God even had enemies - then what knowledge, was he meant, to have, with which to protect, a world? Also, when was any angel ever impaired before birth, in a similar way, as those post Fall?
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  142. Fair enough - so, what is He saying.... right... NOW, @Lindsay Morrison . And did He ever, regret, what happened, to medieval Jews, too... How did their plight, make Him... feel. And why MAKE FLESH at all, if He REGRETS making it...
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  143. Can He speak for HIMSELF instead of through you or a 2000 year book with GAPS in it, maybe? And what of what, say, Lorna Byrne, has communicated?
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  144. And of course, St James didn't see eye to eye on all of that, either. Also, funny ideas of love if gathering sticks on Sabbath merits more action than pogroms or genocide do, from God.
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  145. Then why were half of Christendom, and popes, not chastised. Openly - visibly.
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  146.  @ethandoyle4522  Erm, does John 14:12 apply to you guys or not, also? I mean, as far as credentials go, that one is hard to top. And would have smoked out any nutjob, errant, incompetent or deranged arch bishops, theologians, Popes or Inquisitors in no time flat, maybe. If they could not back up such credentials. Strangely, they never had to abide by such, and so often had a somewhat freer ride. As did many into dungeons, as a result.
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  147.  @h1o84  Why can't we? I mean, it gets interpreted, but what happens when the interpreters interpret it DIFFERENTLY? As Augustine, Calvin and Luther did at some crucial times, or several major Popes? Hadn't a number of catastrophic results eventuated from them doing such? And just HOW DID slavery get revived and even condoned, by any priests, later. We know, it did, historically. But I suppose they simply were 'not true Christians', etc.
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  148. And then stops taking an interest during key moments, and then whoops, slavery is back, Leviticus 25 and Exodus and the curse of Ham is being used to justify it, and then many Jews are dead or tortured across Europe, using Matthew 27:25 as partial justification, plus a 'blood libel', @Rafaela Rousa ? Is that what you mean? And why make a narrow path? And when has ANY angel ever been impaired as the Fall did to not yet born humans, for choosing their loyalties?
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  149.  @ah-lp5cm  Why is it narrow - and hands off my comments - they get deleted a lot at times.
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  150.  @ah-lp5cm  Okay - but are you not Homo Divinus? Do you not have the Spirit speaking through you? In principle.
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  151. We're not the ones who DUMPED THIS lunatic angel on this world, keeping his powers, and telling Adam NOTHING about him, are we. And we can pick out still greater idiocy and insane behaviour out of this book, Numbers 14:45 included.
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  152.  @gia7650  What truth? Can you read Numbers 14:36, and 2 Samuel 15:18, please, or Hosea 9:12, and 13:16, and Joshua 7:24, and then chose to SUGARCOAT or not, it for me? Including about, well, endorsed, infanti-cide, or not? And what IS the main issue, and why are FAILED angels dumped onto this world, keeping powers, at all? From a realm that was meant, to be without flaw, and pervaded by the Spirit, of YHWH?
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  153.  @gia7650  So does this god, it seems, if they run entire churches, sects, denominations, Magdalene laundries, Inquisitions, etc, or slavery apologetics. But would I expect much else from a stone chucker and serial infanti-cidist? Vexing, eh.
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  154.  @vivigi6727  Prove it? Okay, so maybe Satan did it - why could he? Was Adam or Eve ever told he could? Or that they could give a whole world to this being? So that means that NOT all of nature is fully under God's control, or clearly points to a singular creator, I suppose - which would make Romans 1:20 partially invalid? And show me who's been healed - without mental dissonance, or trauma, relapsing, or self... harm resultant?
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  155. @Çaesar How? tell me, how, they do it, and how much, is conscious, or volitional, or aware. And not, say, influenced, by Satan. Meaning not, all of nature, is of a singular, author...?
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  156.  @4jgarner  Is it? Is it, really - and WHY DID this distinction escape, SO many, invested priests, bishops, and theologians, and others, by say, 1500 AD? When going to Africa, etc? And why was resolving it a lower priority, than say, defining fully what transubstantiation is, a very abstract concept for ordinary people - at best.
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  157.  @4jgarner  You mean, that God was NOT PAYING attention, maybe, but was quite HAPPY to pay very, very close attention, to a man who broke Sabbath, to make SURE he got, put, to death?
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  158.  @4jgarner  Or to not deal with it at all, I guess, on a national level, at times? I mean, even when whole verses are WEAPONIZED against people, by clerics, priests, theologians, Popes, etc? Certainly alarming, if so. I just wonder why the standards have so drastically changed. Maybe it's all gotten too big for personal attention, like with one tribe, and a localized Ark in their proximity?
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  159. Loves who, and loves who, equally, or not, though, @Kayla Moris - including Medieval Jews, often seeming, abandoned? To errant theologians, Popes, tortur-ers, err, etc?
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  160. @Megatronix but that's words - deeds, consistent or not, matter too. And believe in WHICH VERSION of Him, and the Spirit, and which Christology, which soteriology, and which church/denomination. And explain to Jews why they did not get EQUAL chance of being converted, without violence.
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  161. @Megatronix They exist - they have, existed, for 1600 years. As has variable Christologies, soteriologies, or variable readings of 1 Corinthians 10. Accept, it, for now. It makes the idea of 'saving' people much more complicated to - as in, saving them, INTO, what... And this God also so loved the world He PUT IT INTO DANGER in the first place? To 'prove' something to Satan, a demented, irrational angel?
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  162. And has He? the same WISDOM as in 1 Samuel 15:3, Joshua 7:24, and Genesis 30:37, possibly, @hana Christy ? May need more qualifiers, than those, however...
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  163. ​ @humanbeing12848  And what of it? And what of 2 Timothy 1:9, Romans 8:29 and Romans 9:11-22? Also, why is He in FAVOUR of abortions, in Hosea 9:12-16...
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  164. Why is that, and why are they perishing, and did they CHOSE to perish, @Lucas Henriques ? Or, did, Adam, 'chose', for them? And IS there a pre-chosen, Elect, or not? And others, pre chosen, to be 'vessels of wrath' or not? And why were medieval Jews, not apparently, so valued... equally.
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  165.  @lucashenriques4242  So, why is it foolish, then? And why do people THINK it is? And often, it's not the CROSS they think is foolish (although this is still God torturing Himself, to appease Himself, over a situation somewhat created, by Himself) - it is rather more, the Eden story - incomplete as it may be - that seems foolish. Omissions for this whole 'context' and situation, too, not withstanding... Any angels ever 'chose' like Adam did, too - for each other? For ones not born, yet, either?
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  166.  @lucashenriques4242  Err, no, because He CHOSE to blind us, for what TWO people, did. And what is a 'natural man', anyway, ala 1 Corinthians 2:14? Who CHOSES to be born, a natural man, and what has that to do with, the 'natural' things we can supposedly look for, in Romans 1:20? had Paul MET any Pagans, at all? which of them are BORN knowing the Fall happened, or that a subcreator is responsible for the, bad, looking bits, of nature, or those that seem at odds, with other parts? All you say is that SOME find it foolish - and not even which bits. This is still a God torturing Himself, to appease Himself, it seems, to many, for a crisis He created, Himself - with Adam somehow 'choosing', for us all, despite being barely aware of what's involved, and this being totally unlike how angels were given free will, used it, or what knowledge they were born with. So are some, predestined, to be vessels of wrath? So you'll pardon me if it seems like more work, has to be done, for the background context, here. One might ask how He FAILED to create, entirely sane or rational angels, or non-gullible, ones, too - or a heaven without any seeds for dissatisfaction, in it? It would seem somewhat comparably rational, to frame that view. What would your words seem, to Gandhi, say? and would the Trinity - not even a fixed Christian idea, for hundreds of years - seem to James' the Just's followers?
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  167.  @julieannelovesbooks  So who should or should not have run Churches and much of Europe, for one thousand years, if not always born again, or not? And how many Jews needed to pay price, for the lessons learned...
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  168. What does that mean, even? How many Popes were born again, or not, @Ayytism ? Or Luther - or inquisitors, later? And if not born again, why did they retain any divine status.
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  169.  @ayytism8857  Then where are your powers, then? And NONE are saved until all evil was destroyed. Oddly, a lot of evil had free rein in Christendom, even at senior levels, from 800 AD to 1800 AD. So this fire baptism - this Chrism - how does it work? Who did or didn't receive it? Including a number of Popes...
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  170.  @rubenmcrae6666  I see - and WHY COULD Satan BECOME god of this world, and did Adam ever, KNOW he could GIVE this being, this world, to be god of either, my friend? Seems like a VERY strange arrangement, too, for 'free will' especially for those, NOT yet, born. Why is Satan owed such things, or access, anyway? And why was any angel able to be blinded so in HEAVEN, in this God's, very presence? Come back, please, when you can substantiate the remainder, of this implied claim...?
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  171. But what does Numbers 5:11, specifically say, also, @Paige Mitchell ? Bearing in mind not all agree on what the... potion, does.
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  172. Why now, and why not in the 1490s, 1572, and the Spanish inquisition? And He did MORE than 'shake his head' in Numbers 14:36. He got violent, and MENTAL, basically, and lashed out at fairly blameless scouts, perhaps, @Husky Dog ?
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  173. @Ronald McDonald What, like Augustine may have done? And Gregory XIII, possibly Calvin, too, and Torquemada? But they... got away, with it. And had NO DIRECT intervention offered on it, unlike in Numbers 15, at the trial, for Sabbath breaking. So, was that a one off thing? And what, by default, would happen to gay people, also, post Matthew 5:18? There was no mention of any - curing - back then... as anything to even offer.
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  174. First tell me how ANGELS EVER stray from 'natural' traits, or behavior, or satisfaction, in heaven, perhaps, @khaluaPJ ? And if Numbers 31:17 describes not only natural, but CONSENSUAL affection, in the weddings it describes or not? And who gave Torquemada or Gregory XIII over to desires, and influence, too, be it sinful or otherwise.
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  175.  @lenalove8138  Even in Numbers 14:45...?
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  176. What 'works' are these then, which are UNIQUE to Christians meaning could ONLY be enacted, as 'works', by Christians, and not OTHER people. And what exempts YHWH or Jesus, from key works of their own, or showing consistency on what they DO claim to care about, or not. (Though to call a number of chapters from, ah, Numbers, consistent, is kind of silly)
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  177. And has it worked, or not? And have you ever learned how much of nature WAS or wasn't altered, partially controlled, or subverted, via Satan, as part of his mysteriously broad remit, post exile, @Hali St. Louis ?
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  178. So do those same texts condemn always forced marriage, also? No? I did not think so.
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  179.  @jaxon.mcduffie  Then I invite you to read all of Numbers chapter 31, extremely carefully, before you give your next reply, thanks. And maybe chapter 32 too, for a potential encore.
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  180. Which sin - and were coerced marriages a sin, @Chris A. ? Also, what of gaps in it.
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  181.  @chrisa.368  So what was Numbers 5:11 saying then? And so many say so much, yet at the same time, surprisingly little. Also, did He TAKE ANY RESPONSIBLITY for what Popes or other Catholics, priests, and Inquisitors, later did, or were empowered, to be ABLE, to do...
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  182.  @chrisa.368  I think you know fairly well, if you know anything about pogroms, the Inquisition, slavery apologetics, and ah, sectarian wars? Also, what happens when the 'thigh sags', and why does it at least LOOK like miscarriage?
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  183.  @chrisa.368  Ta. Also, for coerced marriages, see Numbers 31.
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  184. @RedTape It wasn't for captive women in Numbers 31, I gather...? Are you going to address that, some time...
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  185. No force? No, just threat of pain, violence, or eternal suffering, then. And it was force, for many past Jews, in Europe, oddly.
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  186. Yeah, He was into politics - angelic politics, too. And YOU LET HIM SPEAK, You let Him say, HOW HE FELT, about the Spanish Inquisition, and assorted pogroms, wars, slavery apologetics, etc, within the church - at the TIME, they happened, perhaps, @Teresa Welcome ... As I ain't reading the 'wisdom' of Numbers 31:18, again - on, sexual.... matters. Now, why was HEAVEN EVER unstable, too...
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  187.  @teresawelcome8354  Well, showing favouritism to some tribes over others, seems like part of it. And what was more important - a Sabbath breaker, in Numbers 15:32, be shown guilty, and put to death - or that assorted ERRANT or dangerous theologians, Popes, priests and Inquisitors, could run riot, at will, and persecute, or torture many, for centuries... And what of omissions, too...
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  188. @Çaesar Saviour, again from what? And why does Matthew 7:18 inspire much confidence, in this? Also, who saved Spanish Jews or not?
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  189. @Çaesar Go out of what way? You mean maybe to live the lifestyle their parents, priests or contemporaries, in their tribes, taught them? The ones people were scattered into, post Babel, and of which most we never hear of, again? And I'm waiting for an answer on that Matthew 7:18 issue, and glory. As well as how 'free' the gift really is, globally, considering the above, and how mutable nature, and sexuality, and other things, are, post Fall?
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  190. @Megatronix Boy, that is a VERY THIN little argument, you suddenly make, isn't it? You pathetic, claims dodger. 'The heathens and strangers - they are to be your possession, for life' (paraphrasing Leviticus 25:44-46...)
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  191.  @rubenmcrae6666  Will you tell, us, then, if Adam, KNEW, he could, at ANY point, GIVE Satan the Stewardship, or control over a world, or that MORE than two lives, were at stake, in Eden, over the fruit - all this, before my having any real idea if he even KNEW what death, was, let alone good, or evil. So would threat of death, even deter his choice. Also, this God takes GREAT care to make SURE a man who violated Sabbath with aforethought, in Numbers 15, was sentenced to death - but takes NO such care, to make sure slavery is properly defined, negated and not backed by priests, later? Is this another case of Him giving up whole churches, to Satan? As with nations, even...
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  192. And why CAN THE GOD of this world, do, that, or BECOME EVEN, the god of this world, and did Adam KNOW HE COULD GIVE that being, this world, to be god of, at ANY point, whatsoever, @ruben mcrae . Your answer is insufficient, when it comes to full context, here. And how was ANY ANGEL at all, 'blinded', in heaven, in the very PRESENCE of this God, either...? Also, how did Jesus FEEL about the Inquisition, schisms, wars, pogroms, torture, or slavery apologetics, within Christendom, at the time... and not hundreds of years prior.
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  193.  @codymarkley8372  If, by, conformed, to His image, and doing what He does - does that include taking NO ACTION WHATSOEVER when churches schism, war, nations war, and POGROMS, Inquisitions, slavery apologetics, and antisemitism, become widespread, and encouraged, by senior priests, clerics, Popes, etc? Taking far less action - if any at all - than compared to presenting testimony for a man to be put to death, in Numbers 15? Because priorities, begin to look a bit odd - at that point.
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  194.  @codymarkley8372  Well, are people in Romans 9:22 oppressed? Being DESIGNED or destined, to suffer eternally, mostly not of their choice, sounds like being oppressed. And why won't GOD DO IT EITHER - when it requires no more effort, than His grandstanding in Numbers 15:32, took? When churches and errant bishops, and Popes, TURN on each other, persecute Jews, or spread torture, and slavery apologetics... Kind of looks, like sleeping in, on those things.... He does...? And, certainly seems like... He... broke... us. By His own, choice.
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  195. Yes, so why can it never be updated? And why shouldn't people occasionally look to likes of Lorna Byrne or others, if confused by it?
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  196. WHICH FOREFATHERS knew it - given Leviticus 25:46 will ALWAYS exist, as it is, loopholes, and all, Miles.
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  197.  @DoomYourGameAndMusicDeveloper  But not way after that, like with Priests, bishops, Popes, and Inquisitors? And do not say Catholicism is an errant heresy. They represent at least half of all Christendom. That cannot be SOLELY down to human error.
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  198.  @Bridgesgotswag  The incomplete word, of God, yes. That can hoist some of the portrayals of God on his own petard - yes. Agreed?
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  199.  @Bridgesgotswag  Ah, then God DOES need calming down by a human being, in Numbers chapter 14, then? And you can also, tell me, what SHOULD have happened to Jews or not, post Matthew 27:25, and 1 Corinthians 10?
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  200.  @Bridgesgotswag  And why did that Matthew verse, and 1 Corinthians 10, lead to any bishops, priests and Popes blaming the ENTIRE race of Jews, and viewing them as cursed? And DON'T say Catholics are 'not Christians' - that is beside the point, and they were not the only ones to do so. And why were those two scouts in Numbers chapter 14 cursed/put to death, for just REPORTING bad news, in front of God.
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  201.  @christopheroluwasona66  What a curious thing to say, after many influential Church leaders WERE PERMITTED to make their own doctrines, and DECIDE how Matthew 27:25 and 1 Corinthians 10 should be interpreted, including about what becomes of Jews or not, or if they all 'collectively refused' Jesus, or invoked a curse, upon themselves? As well as all those slavery apologists by the circa 1500s AD, surprisingly emerging, so widely. And incidentally, how DOES sin and angelic ignorance, like the Big Bang, just HAPPEN or spontaneously emerge, in heaven, for one third of the entire angelic population - no less?
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  202.  bigpigslapper Oink  And who made the flesh, again, and were we meant to have it, or not? And how much of it was corrupted or not, by Satan, or Adam? And how much, too, of visible nature - that we are assured, clearly shows the hand of only ONE creator, per Romans 1:20? Then how precisely, does it, or not.
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  203.  @ally-nb1cx  What about OMISSIONS in it, then? but as you aren't a Christian, why do you care?
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  204. I find few of you can REALLY define what that means, today, on any side, @Abdiel Villarreal .
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  205. So how did anything go wrong in heaven, and by what moral standard was Pope Gregory XIII, Torquemada and Calvin, and others, given Earthly and religious power or authority, on this world, @Farison Adelina - and not gainsayed, stripped of their position, or otherwise impeded, when their choices became massively destructive and shocking?
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  206.  @FAIL155  I do hope the questions will at least be given, some weight, in due course? If not by you, then by someone, on here? It is what many do sincerely wonder, today, and worldwide, even if they cannot always articulate it clearly.
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  207.  @FAIL155  Yes, and I have a bone to pick with the massive body count they left across Europe; and is Kenneth Copeland counting as an 'authority' now?
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  208.  @FAIL155  You're Homo Divinus - connected to the Spirit and God. Can you not simply ask what happened?
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  209. I'd go with heavily fallible, thus far. And how would you define Numbers 31:17? Consensual or non consensual marriages implied, @CRT ?
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  210. It's the system this God set up in the first place, though - with VERY detailed instructions on animal sacrifice, no less, and claiming to LIKE the smell, or burnt flesh, too, @renegade637 ... Also, this God ADMITS there were other Gods, pre Exodus (and during it) and also leaves Hebrews for centuries, in slavery, then expects instant unswerving trust or awe...? And by 1572., maybe forgets about many of them, anyway... also, don't forget Romans 13:1...
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  211. Oh zark off, you judgement quisling. Tell me if coerced marriages, too, were lukewarm or not, in Numbers 31:17, @bzckets ?
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  212. Angels couldn't all bow, apparently. And they knew him more than we did.
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  213. @Draco - we cannot EASILY have dominion over anything if we DON'T know the whole story, equally, do we? Or how this God REALLY feels about antisemitism or slavery, or the Curse of Ham, etc, etc. But that was DENIED to many, many, many Europeans, and Africans, and others, in favor of the 'free will' for perverted, errant, theologians, bishops, Popes, Inquisitors, and even translators? Apparently long debates on transubstantiation, literalism and heresy counted MORE than sorting out all of that, or sectarian wars, poverty, schisms, and slavery apologetics.
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  214. Frankly, many would rather not be caught between them - and the moral standards of much Christian Europe was a wildly skewed and uneven for many centuries, anyway, @Tyler Kikkert , I had observed?
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  215. @Çaesar Why would any angels doubt that, or the nature of God, at all? And all of THEM chose their loyalties at once, with no elaborate test or one of them altering the nature of all yet to be born angels, either.
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  216. As is this hasn't happened ALREADY with other factions, in the past - just look how Augustine used the word 'typoi' about Jews, in 1 Corinthians 10, which ended up handily justifying ideas of a racial curse on ALL Jews, for centuries, @Nathan Juste ? How, quite, alarming. As well as how easily un-reined in errant theologians, ah, apparently perverted Leviticus 25 and Exodus 21:20?
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  217.  @nathanjuste6778  I mean it CLEARLY wasn't a priority in prior centuries to keep the book from being distorted, in many cases, was it - and so salvation, the initial jeopardy, and context of both, and the 'free' gift, was NOT offered, equally, worldwide, as a result. Nor safety for European Jews and others, or how Leviticus 25 'should' be interpreted, for sure. So yeah, if you wish, say that 'Catholics are not true Christians' - but know this does not, cut, a lot of ice, with me. Romans 13:1 included.
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  218.  @nathanjuste6778  yes, but I'd say, we HAD TO. I do not see any way we could not. Leviticus 25 left too many loose ends, as it is, anyway. And Hosea 9 and 13 was no barrel of fluffy bunnies, either.
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  219. @Pastafarian And is authoritative how to buy and bequeath slaves, beat them near to death, occasionally sell daughters (your own, or daughters of the slaves) and endorses infanti-cide several times over, even it seems, in Joshua 7:24 and Jeremiah 2:30. And was Torquemada, Gregory XIII and Augustine (at his most errant moments) meant to have authority, or not? Or Calvin, Luther, etc. At their most ranting and antisemitic, even.
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  220.  @studentofthesaviors.o.s  Have you also read Joshua 7 and Numbers chapters 14, 15, 16 and 21, front to back? Also, Hosea 9:12, and 13:16?
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  221. Yaaawnnn - why would God once again SOWETH HIS own rivals onto this world, or COMPETE with HIMSELF again, and take NO RESPONSIBILITY for the BILLION plus people born as Catholics, who are not going to, ah, know, about this counterfeit, @Miles Son of Jesus true god and king of israel ? Also, why should Jews, for another example, EVER trust you, at mere words - and do you also, have any, powers, like apostles, once did? Also, how do two ignorant people 'give' Satan anything, let alone a whole world.
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  222.  @DoomYourGameAndMusicDeveloper  How do they do that, then? How did ordinary, controlled, ILLITERATE mostly laypeople, do that? If the text was not even usually translated outside of Latin, and all of the choices of compiling and editing and translating it, or what to leave out, was made by senior, un monitored clerics? Also, when those Israelites were SUFFERING across Europe, subject to forced conversion, exile, mobbing, torture or assault, in pretty much, literal, pogroms, what then, did He DO - as King, of the Jews? Having spent a few days, in that role, literally, circa 33 AD?
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  223. What was Numbers 5:11 actually TRYING to say or not, also, @hillaryforprison 2016 ? What did the potion DO? And what kind of marriages were in Numbers 31:17.
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  224. Wanna tell us if coercing female prisoners into marriage, when their entire tribe had been wiped out, is eviler than consensual relationships you allude to here, though, Pastafarian? (see Numbers 31:52)
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  225. @Pastafarian I mean which Bible, which translation, and which wordings, plus which interpretations? Given the harm just ONE word interpretation (typoi) did in 1 Corinthians 10 to the ENTIRE Jewish people later, in Christendom, due to Augustine's interpretation - and then carrying over to Luther, Calvin, and eventually Torquemada, who treated them worse and worse. And what context SHOULD 1 Corinthians 10 have been, or Leviticus 25:46, since it was FULL of loopholes, and basically useless by 33 AD anyway? Maybe it should have been revoked, just in case. And what, by default, happens to gay people in Christendom after Matthew 5:18, historically - and in, context. Also, is there context that makes Genesis 30:37 meaningful, literal, or relevant, rather than just a strange story on breeding colorful animals? And how old were Achan's children, and did they share his fate.
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  226.  @scottsmith3236  Kept for life, being able to be beaten, bequeathed to a relative, or compelled to marry them. And treated radically differently, than a Hebrew treated, another. Also, if that was not true slavery, BUT the Leviticus 25 and Exodus 21 verses were so EASILY going to get perverted later, then why not, simply, disinvoke them, when the New Dispensation arrived? And make it very, very clear, they'd never be relevant, again? Upon loopholes hang many a catastrophe, historically.
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  227. @Çaesar But how do they know you are, either? Even Satan can quote scripture, and pose as a being of God... with that free will he has, surely... equal, to human's?
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  228.  @tl8042  Also, yes, we DO KNOW about the indentured servant claim, and it does not seem to fit with the unequal treatment of non Hebrews implied in Leviticus and Exodus 21. Given such, and the women too, can be kept for much, much longer, than a Hebrew can - even unto LIFE, and be bequeathed, to one's relatives. They may marry them, as they wish. This seems a bit odd - if they can also be beaten very NEARLY to death, too. An odd kind of servant role, by many means. And why was it EVER okay to have sex with a relative, or stone KIDS (which YHWH apparently ENDORSED MULTIPLE times, in past verses) if that was not how creation was meant to go? You are saying then, that God DOES tolerate or even USE some evil, at times?
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  229.  @tl8042  Got a respectable link about that, maybe? Also, you will now HAVE TO FILL in context on WHY God would EVER LET such beings near this planet, trust them with any actions or interactions with humans, let alone to let them breed, with us, I assume? Where would we hear more - upon this? Given how much it was deemed non canon for a long time, or 'suppressed'? Also, these were not dino skeletons, I take it?
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  230.  @dathip  How MANY Wolves does this God EQUIP with their status, and powers - rebel angels keeping powers, and posing as beings of light, Adam told nothing really important about - included, again? Seems like He has SO MUCH fun equipping His own enemies, sowing them here, and even competing, with versions of Himself... Maybe he wants to go back to kid-kill1ng, or cursing.
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  231. Did He also love medieval Spanish, Jews, equally so, @German Vielledent ?
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  232. @Çaesar Neither is angels with no flesh nature and any ignorance of God's existence, or nature, becoming ignorant, self destructive or sinful, fully natural, also? We could maybe do, with more, info on that, first, perhaps. Also, why would God ever want to LOSE? To make a species, and lose most of it.
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  233. Who is 'we', @Michelle Smith ? You mean, here, in the discussion? Also, did He love David's son, and any youngsters, in Numbers 16:27, or Achan's kids... equally...?
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  234. @Çaesar So why should I support Numbers 31:17, with it's possible coercive marriages, and Samuel 15:15, precisely?
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  235. But various errant theologians, Popes and priests will just carry on, in major positions of power, and not be held in check, and get away with it, then, @emilia lavaro ? Also, where do poor scouts who reported on Canaan, fit in, ala Numbers 14.
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  236. And unlike some of the first such angels, never suicidally rebelled or thinks himself a god, either, lol...
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  237. WHY IS ANYONE having to go to hell, to prove some CRAP to delusional angels, who had NO RIGHT to be on this world. And many of you cowards WILL DISCUSS Romans 9:22, in FULL, before long.
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  238. Certainly I can believe Numbers 14:45 was written by men. The idea a God would EVER behave like that, and have to need calming down by a human, is a very big stretch, at best.
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  239.  @richyml3168  So, if I may, what is the way they found, for the interpretation? Also, what is the meaning of the word 'arsenokoitae', in the wider discussion of the topic?
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  240. Do not tolerate bequeathing slaves for life, Numbers 31:17, @Moon Walker ?
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  241.  @BenBillBob  How do we know which one is true? Is Kenneth Copeland true? Or is a true one a Christian who ran much of Catholic Europe and chose which massacres to bless or not?
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  242. It has nothing to progress to, which of course, explains why it goes in circles. And it will NEVER live down it's tolerance of slavery apologetics and rabid antisemitism, either, at this rate. After that, trying to square it with the ethical standards or behaviour of a God as in Numbers 14, 15 and 16, is just a downhill slide, for many.
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  243. It's ALL WORDLY NOW. Release the damn files, and tell us what God was THINKING during Matthew 27:25, and 1st Epistles Corinthians, and during the Inquisition. Plus, how dissatisfaction can even emerge, in heaven.
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  244. Faith in what? Close in what way? Who does God pick to guide nations, and decide who lives, dies, and what gets translated or not, @Torfinn Zempel ? And I will continue making this general point, to several, on here.
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  245.  @torfinnzempel6123  So what is Christendom for, and divine right of kings, and Popes, and Popes and bishops and others deciding who is put to death or not, or given rights to live within a nation? Or who goes to war?
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  246.  @torfinnzempel6123  So why did God want the idea so prevalent, and unresolved? Like so much defence of slavery, often by actual priests?
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  247. And which Christ is this, and where does Jehovah fit into it? And what of Luke 13:24, @Sage ?
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  248.  @Birdienez  Where in Genesis? And you do know the idea of a Mossiach was QUITE different, when originally framed, in the Old Testament, and among Rabbis, yes? And Luke 13:24 implies NOT MANY will actually survive, at all. As does Matthew 7:18.
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  249. Shall we ASK HIM directly how He feels about it, now then, as well as compared, to say, pederasty, @Grace T ? Also, how marriages in Numbers 31, were, ah, conducted, precisely?
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  250. Of course, it would be really nice to know what He travelling to, or doing, in the Spanish Inquisition, say, @R Yohn , or ah, doing about it. To know who was following Him best, then, that is. This would be useful, to know, maybe.
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  251.  @benice7514  This is a pretty gross simplification. And what about the two or three hundred years before that, also? And Thomas Paine and others, or deists like Jefferson. They were pretty abolitionist, over time.
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  252.  @benice7514  I'm not disputing that many abolitionists were Christian, however (although there were many varieties of Christian, therein, anyway) But I am disputing that 'nonbelievers' did nothing, per your other reference. And conversely, a number of clerics acted against abolition, too. Plus, what of the previous two or three hundred years, back to when slavery first entered into vogue at all, within Christendom? That may say more about the higher policy and plan, than the individuals involved, however.
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  253.  @sunkyokim6052  Pardon me, but if He HATES sin, why did He EVER LET SATAN back into His presence, to hear his likely DELUSIONAL opinions, on the loyalty of Job, or other people? And why would this monomaniacal, disloyal, suicidal angel, CARE what God thought, by that point, either?
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  254. So will He do it? And why would He IGNORE OUTRIGHT some people, begging, ah, to speak with Him, or to not be, gay, @Vivi Gi ? From all I have heard, of many people.
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  255. @Çaesar Doesn't Matthew 7:18 imply hardly any will?
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  256. Why are you such a racial, supremacist, exactly.
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  257. How about also preaching one without GAPS IN it on major backstory issues, and how curses work, @Misfit Mandy ?
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  258.  @MisfitMandy  Incorrect, or schisms, divisions and ambiguities, would not have arisen. Ask some children also - they could think of some fairly simple points. For one, HOW much of nature, post Fall, is under partial control or influence of Satan, or not? And why were any angels ignorant enough and delusional enough, to ever think he could win a Revolt, and why would any of them be able to CONCEIVE of dissatisfaction, in heaven, within the Presence of God, anyway? That is meant to provide complete peace and satisfaction?
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  259.  @MisfitMandy  What truth? The book with gaps in it? That endorsed slavery, massacres, inherited curses, bequeathed slaves, coerced marriages of POWs, and indirectly led to centuries of almost none stop, none corrected anti Semitism? And it was TWO PEOPLE making that 'choice' - unware of wider stakes beyond to two lives, and of good, evil, or even death, it would seem. I wonder if any ANGEL has ever had an equivalent degree of 'choice' over their OWN brethren not yet born, in deciding their loyalties, to God? Who they were all well aware existed, and had no impairment of knowledge of Him passed down to them genetically? Or had to vie with disguised rival gods competing for their tribal control?
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  260.  @MisfitMandy  I find that is the best way to explain why things went so WRONG in prior centuries - that suddenly the 'Discernment', guidance and involvement, suddenly went AWAY a lot - and schisms, interpretations and more, continued. How many could not EVEN interpret, in context, the line about 'storing up burning coals' or the eye of the needle, without DETAILED knowledge of Hebrew culture, writings and background details? Yet they were banning the Torah often, burning or forcibly converting or driving out Jews, across much of Europe, and utilizing Leviticus 25 and the curse of Ham and Exodus 21 to justify some VERY curious acts, indeed. And there was no obvious active correction or intervention going on, in relation to much of it. And no, most of us would not have suddenly 'chosen' to become Catholic or whatever - we went with what the people Paul SAID God had put into power over nations, generally ordered. So we need the TRUTH a little more clear cut, and less figurative, if many of you are NOT going to reliably Discern it, yet alone translate it all the same, and explicate it all the same.
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  261.  @Rocknroll-ig5iy  Numbers 5:11 also - don't forget. Also, He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will. Ephesians 1:4-5 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. 2 Timothy 1:9 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation. Jude 4 Equal free will, and love, indeed.....?
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  262. Then why has it got any gaps in it, @Travis Pool - and were all the marriages defined in Numbers 31:17, in TRUTH, fully consensual, or not? And it certainly SEEMS like He has a sexual preference, I guess? Also, why give us free will at all, if we're to a Steward a world, yet must constantly refer back? And without even knowing good or evil, oddly.
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  263.  @travispool2984  So what should happen to Jews post Matthew 27:25, then? And what is a prefiguration, or a Pesher, or Bible code? And when did the curse on Ham's line end? Also, why did it take so long to resolve what sort of slavery was permissible or not? And were gay people to be put to death, or not... Also, what did the fruit REALLY do to people, and what is, 'spiritual death'? If there was absolute certainty, the answers, across Christendom, would surely look way more uniform, than they are, for the last 1000 years.
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  264.  @travispool2984  Also, I mean on if marriages are CONSENSUAL or not. Because reading Numbers 31, I don't see that majorly flagged up, always.
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  265. Well, if we go strictly bye Bible, it can support any NUMBER of things, including abortion or forced marriage, apparently.
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  266.  @SFranc  How do you know which is which, though? If none of you have any powers? And Discernment, can look vague. Also, were Torquemada and Pope Gregory XIII, true Christians?
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  267.  @sunkyokim6052  Given He put us all at risk, and acted like an emotional, unstable lunatic in Numbers 14, how much should we trust in this overall plan, where not all are loved.
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  268.  @sunkyokim6052  Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha - I'll just quietly forget about all of Numbers, Joshua, Samuel and some of the other ones, and those poor spies who came back from Canaan, then, shall I? Also, why did He suddenly get disinterested in half of Christendom, and much of Jewry, when they later collided together.
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  269.  @sunkyokim6052  My standard is to try to help keep people SAFE and happy. I imagine omniscience and omnipotence does that even better. I'm also not aware I'd blame an ENTIRE race, for generations to come, for just rejecting this new version of Me, come among them, and then having their city (Jerusalem) destroyed a few decades later, making them even more disconnected. Anyway, I think I'd certainly not PUT TO DEATH messengers, just for reporting bad news, either, even if it did lead to squabbling and some threatening to stone the expedition leaders (see Numbers 14) And I'm quite fond of Marcus Brigstocke, Terry Pratchett and others, thanks. Michael Palin, too. Given sin is a partial construct, and means 'to miss the mark' at root, it has of course, become a wee bit subjective, over the ages.
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  270.  @sunkyokim6052  No, it's the standard of righteousness a PARENT WOULD have to their CHILDREN, allowing them to learn, safely, make mistakes, and not grotesquely punish them for it, or chuck them into dire things before they are ready. And who are the ELOHIM (grammatical root, plural) And which one was raging like a demented hissy bipolar nitwit, in Numbers 14:45, or not. I need EXPANSION of such examples. And we know even many PRIESTS do not understand Christian doctrine, argue about it to this day, and failed in some crucial historical moments, over it, also. And given the shear DAMAGE one word can do, out of place, in a translation (typoi) - it makes things more messy than it could otherwise have been. Yet still, it seemed, less worthy of intervention than gathering sticks on Sabbath (that we now cannot all agree what day it is even on, post Advent)
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  271.  @sunkyokim6052  parents. Expectations, and labels, about parenting - but extended race wide. And if the scouts just REPORTED bad news, honestly, but still can get punished with death for it, what sort of message, does it send.
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  272. ​ @sunkyokim6052  Well, they have the same, generally explicit MOTIVE - to protect, teach and guide. They aren't showing favorites preferably, either, or making some as impure vessels, for wrath, in the long run. And the Golden Rule is kind of older than Mosaic law, too.
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  273.  @sunkyokim6052  Well, I guess you'd have to decide if we really ARE ALL the children of God or not, deserving of equal time, attention, affection, effort, or protection. And where demented rebel angels who have billions of other worlds they can dwell on and mess up as they wish, fit into sharing this one. I'm currently just presenting a fairly self consistent model, of ethical mission statement.
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  274.  @sunkyokim6052  To who? Who the heck are you talking about. I'm not talking about the FIRST CENTURY AD here, I'm talking about when Christendom was THE dominant power in a good chunk of the planet. In all it's messy, varied, competing forms, too.
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  275.  @sunkyokim6052  It's about what impression they PAINT of this God, rather. Also, I'm discussing Christianity and Jesus POST crucifixion, and disappearance. A God's theoretical interactions and responsibilities surely do not cease because they merely 'died' once...?
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  276. Maybe you should check to see how many have actual spiritual experiences, too, @Youtube please do not censor us ?
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  277. Whoops, shame that detail didn't get passed down accurately into the Body that was meant to clearly spread the Word, then, and the message, overall, @Sylvia Ballard ?
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  278. @Megatronix No, so have fun going in circles, this time. At least we've progressed from warcrimes, though...
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  279. Yes, that's why Newton had to be somewhat heretical, in his ideas - as did Galileo. Now we KNOW the world is round, and what orbits are, and you can type your arrogant messages, all neat, on this handy internet. And travel across large bridges, designed in line with the curvature of Earth. If we still did things the Genesis 30:37 way, farmers would starve to death, or go broke selling failed wool breeds...
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  280. Hasn't that already happened SEVERAL times since 400 AD, anyway, @P Flo ? And a lot of times, sound teachings were not as clear cut or fully revealing, as they always seemed... How DID such dangerous concepts as a 'blood libel on Jews' ever come about, anyway?
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  281. Who sowed the Principalities, into this world, though, @ruben mcrae - and is not Adam SHOWN all of them, or they filed before him, at one point? Didn't this God KNOW some were insane, rebellious, or unreliable? Why does He equip His own rivals, exactly - and then tell Adam NOTHING of the wider threat, or stakes? And didn't He LET THIS 'god of this world', blind people, with Adam and Eve the only ones, really having a 'choice' about it, and with very little knowledge to do so?
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  282. Also, Numbers 5:11, Hosea 9:12, and 16:13, and 2 Samuel 15:3, @Nalou 4334 - how are we, to READ, or view, those verses?
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  283.  @naria2224  You're the fawking expert on demons, mate, not, us. Wanna tell us how ANY ANGEL BECOME ignorant, delusional, capable of dissatisfaction and suicidal pride, in heaven, and gullible, too? Yet STILL get, to KEEP powers, after being 'cast out' and "falling" (from where, to where, by what route, etc) And have you ever MET a pagan, for that matter... Now, go and read Hosea 9:12, and 13:16, and Numbers 5:11 - please.
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  284.  @bradrad4160  Right, then maybe you also understand why Romans 1:20 is NOT the fait accompli Paul seems to think it is. Especially if he then undermines our 'natural' perceptions in 1 Corinthians 2:14, around the same time.
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  285. No - can you? Where are the powers that Jesus says 'these things, and greater, than I, shall you do'? And did Torquemada count as a real Christian, or not?
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  286. Why would I want to become one with violent, bipolar, self sabotaging Jehovah, though? And yet we are also, told, in Matthew 7:18, and Luke 13:24, that most will not make it?
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  287. Why is it the one in the New Testament? Why not the Essene church, and St James' ideas, @Kevin Gee ?
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  288. Hey, ever since schisms and the birth of denominations, Christianity is as 'political' as anything else - and right back to disagreements between Paul and James, @Steven Fenley .
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  289. Numbers 31:17. Numbers 14:45. Hosea 9:12.
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  290. Who is a perfect savior, then, @Braxton Jenks ? And why were medieval Spanish Jews, and others, WITHIN much of Christendom, NOT WORTH protecting, aiding or saving? What changed?
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  291. In which one, which Christology, and why did He have to do it, @Alex Martinez ? Why, again, was Satan owed anything, and why was he trusted with more knowledge of good, evil and the wider stakes, than Adam? Who had the power to alter and impair an entire, not yet born, SPECIES? Unlike Satan (presumably)
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  292.  @amartinez589  Sin and death entered the world because God WANTED THEM to - do you really miss that? What did He THINK would happen, with Adam and Eve so ill prepared for their role, with no idea really what death WAS? And do you really think death would NOT be a part of nature? If NOTHING dies, where does everybody live? Do we all still give birth? Do we fill up this planet? Or is that only until a certain planned point. Either way, you and I would likely not exist today, if not for the death entering in.
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  293. So basically, yeah, the Founding Fathers defined a new god, or at least, a more 'updated' one. Maybe that was for the best, considering recent past for them, in Europe.
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  294. Which world is that - and is this the heaven where ignorance, dissatisfaction and sin spontaneously emerge, also, in many of the angels, @Niall Connolly ?
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  295.  @nunybznz7561  And HOW MUCH of human sexuality, is entirely, CONSCIOUSLY, chosen, again, and NOT corrupted, hijacked, or influenced, by Satan, or Adam, post Fall, exactly, again...? And how do sexual mores compare over, say, potentially, COERCIVE marriage... of the Numbers 31:18 variety, perhaps?
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  296.  @nunybznz7561  Us? There was no US, in Eden, bub - there was TWO PEOPLE. And this almighty God, later, post Exodus, was foiled by IRON CHARIOTS. And could not tell who was travelling with Balaam, without sending angels down, to check. And many in assorted tribes, cultures, etc, were FAR from broken, so I think you grossly simplify, many, many things, here. And why should Jews ever trust, this indolent, Hammock slumming, INACTIVE God, during much of Medieval Christendom - here and now? Why did He care, less, of their plight? Or what by their 'free will' errant Popes, priests, bishops, and inquisitors, could mess up. We cannot also SEE THIS Satan, or this god. Yet ALL ANGELS could, from birth, unimpaired, by a preposterous 'inherited curse'. I call foul. Given 'corruption' also began, first, in this heaven, too - how inexplicable. And no, 'free will' isn't a good enough answer.
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  297. Excuse ME, @Harpo M - have you read Hosea 9:11-16 lately? And Hosea 13:16? And 1 Samuel 15:3?
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  298. @Megatronix Unless it's in Hosea 9:12-16, and 13:16, and 1 Samuel 15:3, you mean... or Joshua 7:24...
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  299. @Megatronix It didn't STAY cancelled, did it? Old Testament or not. And who cares about Popes - and what they were PERMITTED to do, or not - apparently, not always, this God...
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  300.  @michaal105  But which one, and what of 1 Corinthians 3:13? Which form of fire is this? And why must fear be used so much, instead of miracles, deeds and healing? Remember, most people are NOT of a 'sinful and adulterous' generation, because to be adulterous, you must first have been part of the group and relationship discussed - not merely potential recruits.
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  301.  @studentofthesaviors.o.s  And why is Satan allowed to so freely roam between them, and where do OTHER planets fit into all this? Some of which may have been better places of exile for him, than ours. And many say it was ROME, old or present, and not USA, per scripture. Also, which slavery - the Leviticus 25 or Exodus 21 one, maybe? And Sheol isn't hell.
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  302.  @studentofthesaviors.o.s  UK. We've been through the crapola already, with feuding churches, wars, pogroms, slavery apologetics, and general shambolic consistencies. And most of us never chose it, either. We were BORN into it, with errant clerics given more free will, apparently, than their victims. So apparently consistent, equal access to SANELY presented and logical... salvation (and why we are even in jeopardy, too, explained to us) is not equal, for all.
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  303.  @studentofthesaviors.o.s  I'm being legalistic, I guess. Given how little I respect scriptural legalistic dodges.
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  304.  @heavenlyredrose3394  Why didn't He know mind of one third of angels? Or several Popes and Inquisitors, either? Also, how can two ignorant people 'give' Satan anything - let alone, a world.
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  305. I recall James didn't always get on well with Paul, @Joshua Jones . And what would James have made of 1 Corinthians 10, anyway (talking of the holocaust, and it's precedents, up to Catholic Spain, Italy, etc)
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  306. And so it did in Samuel 15:15, too, on a wide scale, @Alan Hight ? Or in the heart of several Popes, also?
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  307.  @nightshade99  The one that involves war, in chapter 15. And if God did not want Popes, then why do they exist? Able to wield much power, and enjoy immunity from much circumspection per Romans 13:1?
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  308. So would you put a gay person to death, only two centuries ago, or not, if told to, @Solomon Louis Gashumba ? Following Matthew 5:18 et al, or not.
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  309. @Megatronix Then what about omissions, in it - and did Adam KNOW he could 'give away' the Stewardship, of this world, to anyone - or indeed, of the stakes to more than two lives, in Eden? And how old, were Achan's kids. Still, if you ARE Alpha, this is probably a waste, of time...
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  310. @Megatronix And what do you base this on, and did he know, he could give away a world, to Satan, or let a pervasive influence into it?
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  311. Then, ah, FILL IN THE MISSING BITS first. And was it PROOF too, that coerced marriages, or bequeathing some, non Hebrews, as slaves, for LIFE, was ever part of this, @Nicholas Hilliker God1stMinistries ?
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  312.  @wesleyelliott1603  Why were we put at risk to begin with, though? To prove what?
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  313. And are YOU either, @Romeo Daniels ? Can you tell me how much awareness of the wider stakes, beyond to two lives, Adam REALLY had, or not? Or that God even had enemies? And if any angel ever underwent a similar test, with major impact on altering other angels? And why such a suicidal rival would keep any powers, post exile...
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  314. What about the ANGELIC heart? What the f*** was going on, in heaven, to have a mass revolt, in this God's near DIRECT presence, and in a realm pervaded, perhaps, utterly, by His spirit, there, @kap849 ? What was the MATTER with them, or were they made ignorant, or delusional, or gullible? Where would they ever have conceived, of dissatisfaction, from? Until that is resolved, please hold back on the pat statements, that are not as deep as they seem. And maybe Adam should have been taught a bit more, before choosing, on behalf, of what form OUR hearts, would end us as.
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  315. Haven't you lot been doing that yourselves, in many confused, feuding, schismatic ways, for centuries? ALso, why should a post Medieval Jew ever trust you, @Silas Yallknow ? And doesn't Matthew 7:18 and Luke 13:24 imply most will not be saved, anyway? Odd thing to give away, way in advance...
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  316.  @Dibblesoldhollywood  So what is it, and how did insanities like Torquemada and Calvin's views get off the ground, given Romans 13:1?
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  317.  @YoYo-ct6pe  I don't really agree with Leviticus 25:46 either - and why it should have had ANY real world impact after 70 AD. If you do not understand or disagree, I suggest asking God or the Spirit, to show you?
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  318.  @nicholasgee9127  Sure wish Torquemada had learned that in time, maybe? What a bunch of chaotic frippery.
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  319. Except when He didn't, maybe? Or when Paul skewed it another way, or something, @Jenna Neaves . But overall, I pretty much agree with the sentiment.
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  320. @Çaesar Have to ask, what ELSE was defined about marriage, though? And where did the ones in Numbers 31 fall in the scale?
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  321. Then COMPLETE it, first, without any translation errors, omissions or ambiguities, first, @CarsonShaver67 _ ? And how many, per your reading of Matthew 7:18, and Luke 13:24, are even expected, to survive? Also, per Numbers 31:17, how many marriages in that verse, were consensual...?
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  322.  @nicholasgee9127  Who's 'the world' here, again? And why did God soweth any of His enemies here, or also, compete with Himself? Also, were Jews to be extra, extra hated, even within Christendom? And does Matt 5:18 apply to gay people, chucked masonry, and all... ask different priests, you'd get differing answers.
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  323. @Megatronix And what of Jude 4, then, or 2 Thessalonians 2:11, or 2 Timothy 1:9? Were ALL MADE for the same purposes, or not? And when was any flipping angel IMPAIRED before birth, or 'crept in unawares.... ordained to condemnation'....?
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  324. And what does Numbers 5:11 precisely say, again, @Andrew Collins ? Plus, the definition of coerced marriages, or not, ala Numbers 31?
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  325.  @bigdrew1985  How do you know? What did the 'potion' really do - and the wording is certainly broad, on that verse. If anything, it seems like it's ANTI life born in infidelity. And the captives taken from the Canaanites in Numbers 31, were all unmarried women, implied to be 'kept for yourselves' by the Hebrews.
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  326. What do you mean, nothing is too difficult? Was it too difficult to keep certain Popes, theologians inquisitions in order, @Mariam Alfa ? As this continues to confuse me.
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  327.  @_sansvisage  Believe in which God, again? And didn't one third of these same angels become inexplicably ignorant, dissatisfied, suicidally prideful, and capable of error? In a perfect realm, no less, pervaded by God... Also, pretty sure Revelations never explicitly, says we do go, to live in heaven...?
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  328.  @nicholasgee9127  What does that mean, though? And can one still become a Pope, a bishop or an Inquisitor, if a heart is hardened?
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  329. @Çaesar Exactly. So why should I be thrilled about this, or see it as glorious? Given, as I said, that 99.99999 percent of humanity, consciously, 'chose' nothing?
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  330. Ha, you speak with such confidence. For others, no John 14:12 powers = no clear surety of being Christians. Sorry, but that's simplest, and would have kept the likes of Gregory XIII and Torquemada in line, too, if it had been that way. At very least for church leaders, if not as a credential for laypeople.
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  331.  @markguerra2307  How about Amos 3:6, then, and Isaiah 45:7, and Exodus 32:14? Were those evil acts, or not. They seemed labelled so. And how consensual were 'marriages' of the female Canaanites to those who slew their tribe?
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  332.  @weirdflex8158  And how, ah, do we reliably KNOW any of this - and on what basis do you say gay people only lust, by that inference? Were women in Numbers 31:17 loved too, when forced to marry?
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  333. @Megatronix Always, the same, limp excuses? Take eyes off the ball, let the crucial religion schism, war, distort translations, KNOWING far ahead of time, this will occur - then blame humans? When 99.9999 percent of them had no idea that happened, or how? And why was heaven ever flawed, either. Was homosexuality also part of NATURE 2.0, post Fall, that Romans 1:20 does NOT distinguish, about, regarding if more than one hand was behind it - or not?
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  334. Still omissions.
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  335. @Çaesar Even potentially coerced marriages, ala Numbers 31?
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  336.  Cruella  In what proper context, and what proper context was Matthew 27:25 and 1 Corinthians 10 to lead to, on relating to Jewish people? Was it meant to become frelled up, or not. It clearly was often VAGUE context, or easily disrupted, oftentimes.
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  337. Who knows? I thought Revelations didn't even SAY we went to heaven, specifically, @Witch of Stoneycreek ?
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  338.  @amartinez589  Why did none of them ban slavery? And when can we gather sticks, in an emergency, on weekends.
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  339. So are you, maybe, @Anna A ? and so was Gregory XIII, Torquemada, or Calvin, surely. How progressive, or stable, were their own decisions? Also, have you read Numbers 5:11, or not? And do consensual marriages, come up in, Numbers 31:17, or not. Before we start on, wider, narratives.
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  340. I'm never following the example of nutcase Jehovah killing messengers ala Numbers 14:45 thanks. Also, what hammock did or didn't Jesus kip in, during the inqusition.
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  341. Yes, as that might give some of the game away. Including of death maybe already being in Eden, @Allan Daniel Serrano ?
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  342.  @benjaminkramer1569  He chose. He just didn't know he was choosing that, or to 'give' us a sin nature. That NO ANGEL was ever born with, either, BEFORE they chose anything. This is NOT how free will worked for angels. Who could SEE this God, and the rival god, too, in heaven.
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  343.  @brockwillenborg7517  or Popes? And sorry, why do they even exist - for who's 'free will'.
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  344. Which life? Which life did peasants across much of medieval Europe GET to have, in between poverty, feudal wars, national wars and sectarian wars, all against those who generally believed pretty much EXACTLY the same thing they did, @jackie Everitt ? And if you were a medieval Jew, say, in Spain, you were lucky enough to even have that many choices, or peace. So please qualify further what you precisely mean about bringing life, and goodwill. And why so many senior church leaders could do what you seem to accuse many here of doing?
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  345.  @jahdielheywood5277  But various church leaders, Popes and inquisitors can get away with still sinning, still? Or (shock) did He WANT them, to do those bad things? Hmm...
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  346.  @jahdielheywood5277  But I don't care about that - I find it contradictory that half of Christendom would be given over to the 'wrong' version, and be allowed to missionarize, too, and that this would still count for respecting everyone's 'free will' or giving equal chance of salvation. And He just abandoned countless thousands of Jews to that environment too, with no basic legal protection, often. Once again, unable to get involved for long, in this 'worldly' environment? And what DID those scouts even bloody do, in Numbers 14.
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  347.  @jahdielheywood5277  Well, had He washed his hands of them, or not? Did He care what happened to them, of how they could end up persecuted, mobbed, killed, tortured, forced converted or driven out of whole nations - under Christendom - or not?
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  348. It's really not that tricky, is it? I'm asking why God WOULD intervene to clearly state a man gathering Sticks on Sabbath should die, or to wipe out two spies come back from Canaan... for, reasons. And why He'd NOT INTERVENE or do anything to protect Jews from inquisitors or other persecutors, or make sure no verses could ever be used - for a long, long time - in support of slavery. It's like half of Christendom just gets left to be stuck in assorted messes, and most of the Jews, too.
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  349. Why submission, and why can we NEVER lean on our own understanding, even though Romans 1:20 hints we can do exactly, that, @Thomas Williams ? And why did God WANT to soweth, His own rivals, onto, this world.
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  350.  @Aliyaaaa  Define higher good, though - and how long has a 'cure' even been offered, to gay people, in Christendom? What was their status, for most of church history, even...?
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  351.  @_sansvisage  Given how some of them used to be, only a few centuries prior, yes, it absolutely, often is.
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  352. Why would I care? It was the realm sin BEGAN IN, and ERROR, in the first place. And ALL ANGELS KNEW which God was real or not, and what good and evil was, presumably. WE DID NOT. Adam and Eve knew part of it, but not what good or evil, or death, or the wider stakes, were. And read your Revelations again anyway, @Citizen of Heaven - it doesn't exactly say ANY of us go there. Where is the Kingdom to be based, again? Also, what was good enough about killing scouts with a plague or curse, for just reporting bad news.
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