Comments by "chris sonofpear1" (@chrissonofpear1384) on "Do All Christians Think the Same? | Spectrum" video.

  1. To be fair, though, @RainyGhost , I believe her intent was to compare the impulses, and consider if they should be viewed as alarming or not, in their own right? Not merely on the issue of consent? Still, I may have misread her meaning.
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  2. I think she mean't that both seemed to 'feel' right/normal, at time? The attraction, that is?
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  3.  @hahdakdahkdhalsla  Premise, my ass. If people have no choice in their sexuality, and Matthew 5:18 applied, then many got signed a death warrant, for much of church history. And loving the free will of a few over their many victims seems like curious love. Many were wolves in very priestly looking, sheep clothing.
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  4. From what I can tell, she based the logic on them both experiencing a 'powerful attraction', and was focusing more on the desire, than the acting upon.
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  5. Yes, same as the silly 'Eve rebelled first, so none of her female descendants' (After the fruit!) should ever be trusted with authority...
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  6. There are dozens of ways to 'know' the Bible, and a variety of churches, so can we clarify THAT?
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  7. Well, as I so far see it, @Bi Curious Dirt Bike Boi , she was maybe not so much talking about the behavior, as about the impulses, behind both such attractions, and if they should be viewed with alarm or not. Not so much the issue of consent or propriety. Still, theists do often confuse me, especially about what is 'natural' or not.
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  8. She may have a slight, er, tunnel vision?
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  9. It is a complex one, and easy to get wrong. Not that I suspect she had an answer?
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  10.  @thatonemessyartist1760  Though I'd also be worried why being a Christian is so variable, what Satan is or isn't authorised to do, and why he kept any powers or was owed any passage to this world, at all? And no matter how many try to sell it to me, I CANNOT yet see how TWO people can meaningfully choose for ALL humans after them, to become separated from God, by one act, in Eden. Not with being fully consistent with free will, volition, etc.
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  11.  brinabrina  But will still allow many to come to power, ala Romans 13:1, or even to become Popes, or inquisitors at times? And then not impede them? Wasn't what they did more 'detestable' than working on Sabbath?
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  12.  @hahdakdahkdhalsla  It's called HISTORY - I suggest, you look it up. Inquisition, and all. Messy pogroms, and all. And no, saying Catholics 'are not true Christians' isn't going to cover all the bases here. So, this 'hating' of the wicked is presumably larger to, that God does, than His 'hating' of messengers who just give flipping bad news, in Numbers 14, presumably? But oddly, does not always resort in Him doing, jack all.
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  13. Yet it also says before you were in the womb you were known - and then talks about the 'natural man', and the reprobates, and occasionally, spawn of Satan. So I think this may perhaps fall into the category of having a cake, as well as eating it...?
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  14. @Peyton Wenz One would have to ask what she meant by 'a sin', which can mean to rebel, err, misthink or be tempted astray; or to 'miss the mark'. The ideas are not as clear cut always as one might think. Added to this that homosexuality still appears to occur in nature anyway, and not just in humans...
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  15.  @mrnate2910  Remind me if sin means to rebel, to err, or to miss the mark? And then if only humans can do this? And can gods, conceivably, miss the mark as well? Plus, how is this defined if humans have a hereditary 'sin nature' passed onto them, that some say 'inclines us towards sin'...?
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  16.  Christian Soldier  You'll offer sources for the former, naturally?
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  17. So, was pr£ Flood p£opl£, and £sau, and m£di£val J£ws, also lov£d th£ sam£? I had wond£r£d,
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  18.  @ellacarter9863  In a very, very broad sense? And not like they did 100 years ago, and 500 years ago, and 800 years ago?
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  19.  Spencer Tracy  Why? Why did it happen at all? And what knowledge WERE Adam and Eve SUPPOSED to have, to protect a world, with? Since it WASN'T of good; evil; that God HAD enemies; that THEY had enemies; that ANY disloyal or dangerous being could ENTER Eden? That they could hand over much of a world to an outsider being, with one hasty act? Shall I go on?
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  20.  @youcannotspeaktomeanyhow  Sorry - dude in Spain who had some... funny ideas, about converting Jews, by force.
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  21. Or both appear to be unusual, in terms of 'impulses', anyway.
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  22. Because of brokenness? Did He wish brokenness to exist?
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  23. I agree. And then the FULL range of views about what original sin and free will are might be discussed...
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  24. Plus, the book likely contains omissions at times?
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  25. How were they perverted, then, @Surmay Sofia ? By humans, or by Satan? And does that make him another creator? And how did any angels devolve, or become perverted, in a realm where the invisible qualities, of this god, were wholly visible? Also Numbers 31:17, what sexual or marital concepts were fully intended or not, there?
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  26. So which is it? Love god above siblings or even parents - or love each other? They always make it a dilemma.
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  27. Make a law, then, pointdexter? Also, how do you change someone 'being' something? Without... ah, threat... of vi-o-lence, for one?
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  28.  @Dwayne_Tribe  Yes, whether potentially to captive women in Numbers 31:17 or not, I guess? And where do you stand on bequeathing some people as slaves, for life?
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  29.  @Harms361  Fine - so being in that relationship, you can feasibly ask Him what He felt, thought and did, about the blood libel on past Jews, and the Inquisition, in Spain? As well as about all that slave trading that also, occurred, in past Christendom? No pressure - but it sure would be nice to have nicely updated, to the minute answers, to share with us all here - correct? Oh, maybe later build up, to why Satan got to keep so many powers - also.
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  30.  @Harms361  I really would still like, an answer, so you know? Although I do acknowledge, that this is fairly... unlikely. Sorry to be a bit acerbic.
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  31. Also, how much of Leviticus, if bits CAN be added to it, later, is still USEFUL? or Numbers?
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  32. And it seems to be CLEARER about the seafood and the fabrics than it is about what the definition of slavery WAS at all...
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  33. But saviour from WHO? And what of Jews?
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  34. Some of them quite odd. Views on Deuteronomy 20:20, Exodus 21:20, and Leviticus 25:46? Plus Numbers 31:17? And why was Satan owed access to this world, at all, whilst also keeping many of his angelic powers?
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  35. Also, their views on James 3:15?
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  36. Not ONE Jot or Tittle will pass from the law? True or not? Look into it, @Maupow ?
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  37.  @lillycruz3552  Yes, yours are rooted maybe in humans being the property of a god? That opens up the idea of humans being property to other humans - and the word father having new meanings?
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  38. Actually, I'm disgusted you never thought to read Deuteronomy 21 or Leviticus 25, @audrey n . You complacent little berk. What makes those okay, but not so much this? To 'accept'.
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  39. Well, that's kind of the problem. There is little consistency, at times?
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  40. Indeed: Why could Satan reach this world? Please do not just say free will: I will need a good deal more than that.. And did Eve have any idea of stakes to more than her and Adam?
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  41. Why not? Have you met any? Asked them? What of ones who begged NOT to be gay, but got no answer, @Thebeanboi ?
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  42.  @harrygarris6921  Well, I'd appreciate knowing, sometime, what He actually said to you, then - and how, and how widely it applies, or not. It would seem much simpler than interpreting things forever from a varyingly translated book - if I do not give offence, here.
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  43.  @harrygarris6921  and Has Gandhi experienced it? Guru Nanak? Siddhartha? And if it's BEYOND comprehension, why does Augustine, Calvin and Luther, purport to KNOW so much, about it, and often make mistakes, on their other conclusions? And yes, if those other people, HAVE tapped into the real spiritual realm, then why haven't they met your Jesus? Has Satan hijacked their channels? Can he do that? An why is he OWED to do, that, if so? And many of us read quite a bit, about it, too...
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  44. ​ @harrygarris6921  Well, this God LET THEM do that, en-masse, didn't He? And can you, prove, this? And what of predestinating, some...
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  45.  @SummerzOG  Seems like many were good at hating each other, though - or hating Jews, in some major historical denominations. All, most, distressing.
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  46. Well, that does define it a BIT better, yes. Wish she could say the same for why 1/3 of angels would become suicidally prideful (unless - maybe, heaven was NOT perfect...?)
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  47. The impression I get is that they claim both are strong forms of DESIRE, that do not seem 'normal'. What normal is with Numbers 11:19 in existence, I really couldn't say...
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  48. Supposedly because both claim to experience an 'uncontrollable attraction' to people others are not always attracted to...
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  49. And which are those? Many churches vary quite a lot in interpretations. And they Reform, and Renew?
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  50. Can we hear what He is saying, NOW then, and not, 2000 years ago, by oral histories adapted, varyingly, into several different varieties, of Bible, Joshua?
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  51. So go and beat a slave near to death, then, or bequeath them to a relative, for life?
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  52. @Nathan Desta Well, did it happen, or not? And why did ANY FORM of slavery, continue so long, in European Christendom? Right up to around 1800? And I am agnostic, thanks. And does Leviticus 25:46 say 'for life', or not?
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  53. And of gaps in it?
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  54. No, technically... two semi ignorant people in Eden, did. Separated us... from Him. By contrast - do I not recall, that Satan... Could revisit heaven? At least once. Also, how do you feel, about consent, in relationships? And marriages. And any... unchanging... moral standards... therein? Deuteronomy 20 and 21... maybe not included. @theparadigm8149 
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  55. And what is your evidence, for this, if I may ask? Still, it matches my idealised picture, of god - getting to a global reality of that is FAR harder though. And many churches may have impeded it.
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  56. So they SAY, yes, and then often add caveats and fine print to it afterward...
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  57.  @studentofthesaviors.o.s  show me minutes of your discussions with Christ, then, and how he felt about the results of 1 Corinthians 10, and blood libels on Jews, and more, then. And as for Magdalene Laundries, or 'conversion' therapy.... does He see room, for improvement? Whilst we're at it, do angels have genes, do some have genes for debilitating, delusional pride, and are there such things as 'natural' angels, in the 1 Corinthians 2, sense. And I imagine many, potential Christians, harangued, threatened, insulted and tried to scare, this person, with spiritual threats, be it secondhand, or not...
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  58. So - why should we TRUST A GOD who LET them change a word, like that? To get, away, with it. Not a great set of priorities, maybe.
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  59.  @reggieedouard4361  It's possible, yes, but you'all note a LOT OF people have died, been shunned, conditioned, made afraid, or tried to be 'cured' in the recent and not so recent past, often with very bad results to their psyche or health. To say nothing of many Jews forcibly converted. So I am... concerned about some of the mysteries and shortcomings, here. And the general bad quality of evangelism I have often seen. And there is a HIERARCHY here that many somewhat expect to see guided and directed, rather than simply randomly run nations and churches, as if not guided, or Discerning at all (in the spiritual sense) oftentimes? As well as the fiasco over how slavery was defined. Or if gay people got to even live at all, for a long period of Christendom's history?
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  60. Huh? Can we discuss Numbers 31:17 about sexual consent, FIRST, before we get to this? And how do YOU know what they feel for other people? Plus, how much of nature can OR cannot Satan ALTER, corrupt or interfere with, and why did he get to keep any angelic powers, upon his exile, from heaven? Or the ability to reach this world, at all?
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  61. For an experiment, apparently. To see if they would 'willingly' choose to serve an invisible being dissatisfied with his creation's features... or of angels to 'meddle with them'....
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  62. Ta. Please excuse the mild sarcasm...
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  63. Can you explain Numbers 31:17 and Leviticus 25:46 then? And why Satan could reach this world, at all, Niecy...?
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  64. I'm not saying they ENCOURAGE it, but something seemed to go VERY wrong in Catholicism of recent. And we also somehow ended up with the Spanish Inquisition. Who's deeds people have told me were exaggerated, but that's small comfort. We also have the awkward blood Libel on Jews throughout medieval history.
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  65. To be fair, she probably meant about where the feelings come from, and what makes them healthy or normative or not, rather than about the consensual aspect, etc, @malaina sharapan . Not that this makes it much better, in context.
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  66.  @thechristianway5865  How did it fall into sin, and how inevitable was this, the moment Eve and Adam, were rushed into making key choices, they did not fully understand yet - or which enemies, potentially, existed. Or the stakes, to their descendants, and the rest of the world? And I consider all feeling, suffering life, to have significant value, generally. Including in Hosea 9:4 - too. Lastly, sin began in heaven. How much of that, 'fell' into this unprecedented, unlikely, condition, or mindset?
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  67. Largely, dead and defunct, for one? Especially after the EMBARRASSING, harrowing prolongation, of any iteration, usage, or implementation, of Leviticus 25, Exodus 21, or Deuteronomy 21, err, say, in any form of apologetics, policy, or economy, ah, arguments, for one, @tacopig7605 ? And yes, progress, must be made, sometime. 40 years - in the desert or in the glade - can be too long, to resolve some issues. We can't have the next issue many priests endorsed, ala a slave trade, in European Christendom... go on to persist some 350 years, for one.
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  68. Proof? You vary a lot. If you are, can you answer a question?
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  69. And you know this how? Also, may I ask another question?
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  70. So, why would God allow anything to be made up in it?
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  71. I've heard that before. Of course, WHY such a misunderstanding would be PERMITTED to go on so long, is, er, another matter? Kind of like the blood libel upon Jews, or the slave trade?
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  72.  Anthony A.  And what does that mean? Was Torquemada a lukewarm Christian too? Or Leo X, or Gregory XIII - actual POPES? And how were laypeople to tell they were not legitimate Christians?
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  73. Yes - odd that. As are assorted ontological gaps.
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  74. What of your beliefs? How does one just accept that all humans fell into jeopardy because angels abruptly became prideful, and were then permitted to reach Earth, after proven disloyal?
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  75. And by the same being who hates the very flesh... that, He, created...? Or sorry - did, Eve, do that, technically... @sevàcie124gyat 
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  76.  @ori1673  Who knows? It changes ever few centuries, and even Jews couldn't apparently 'get' the message, in time. And then are under 'law not grace', which meant many could be killed or something. Frankly, I give up on most of it.
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  77. Or created ignorant or suicidally rebellious angels, so what is your point?
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  78. And how could it ever occur, in heaven? With angels somehow ignorant they could not win? What would angels think they lacked, also, if in direct Presence?
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  79. It might. They often deign to be a little open ended about it.
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  80. Yes, And to make sure Numbers 31:17 was never needed again... Plus, was it consensual?
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  81. Who knows? He couldn't stop Satan getting here, either...?
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  82. @Kylie Jade - sorry, and did He also love OR hate bequeathing people to one's relatives, for life (Leviticus 25:46) forcibly taking and sparing virginal women captive, unlike the rest of their tribe (Numbers 31:17) or inherited curses put onto to children, and potentially their other descendants (per Curse of Ham, and potentially, others?) Also, how much of Sodom and Gomorrrah was due to rape and inhospitality?
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  83.  @jinkleborg  Thanks. Although why we have to tolerate such sloppy verses EXISTING long past their sell by date is a bit beyond me...
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  84. Since we KNOW all Christians do NOT think the same, can we move from the ordinary central message, of peace and love, which is not contestable, to the OTHER central message, which IS? About being Fallen, and the idea of Brokenness?
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  85. Well, I think she MAY have meant to imply that the FEELINGS can both seem, initially, 'right' or similar?
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  86.  @Realgenelive100  Well, then, challenge accepted, I suppose. Do please read 2 Samuel 24 end to end, and tell me the moral? Or the degree proportional culpability, was defined in it? Same for Joshua 7:24, also, preferably.
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  87. Yes, it's called a siege mentality. If it begins to HURT people, and takes a long time for that hurt to CONCLUDE, then we may have to ask how many parts of it are useful, and STABLE.
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  88. So, ah, did Eve know of the stakes to MORE than her and Adam, before she met the snake, Austin?
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  89.  @ellacarter9863  Hmm, there was opinions before, based on the bible, and there was opinions after. And after that. A whole range of subtly different opinions (including on what the word arsenokoitae means) What's new?
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  90. And follow where? Why could they reach Earth at all, or not be exiled somewhere else? Also, how much of nature can they or can't they influence or control, and what does James 3:15 imply? Or Corinthians 2:14?
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  91. Close to WHO, and to which version of Him? And what of all those who asked, begged to speak with Him, and did NOT GET an answer, in some very, curious, examples, @Ana Clara Martins ?
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  92. could be, yes. There does seem to omissions and inconsistencies at least, that point to major constructed parts.
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  93. When did He appear in person to show which denomination was conclusively right? Or is that spiritually discerned?
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  94. And how do we know? And which denomination has the most accurate spiritual Discernment?
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  95.  @amirimaxwell4814  Yes, because to do otherwise would be to slowly go insane. Unless their god really DOES want only a small remnant to survive, endure, and molly coddle him.
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  96.  @amirimaxwell4814  Sorry - yes, I agree, it should not be the end all. And most have to pick and choose.
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  97. IT does seem to be missing SOME key contexts....
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  98. If you are pro rape, too are you Christian, Alina?
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  99. I did not know that, actually.
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  100.  @snehareddy1333  Highly variable, anyway. At least most of us don't defend slavery in any context, now (besides some hardcore theists)
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  101. And when do we GET truth? ALL of it? And of why Satan could reach this world?
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  102.  @jcaz9864  Also, is it 'thrown into', or is it willingly CHOSING to enter the lake?
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  103. The theology is a arguable MESS though, if it CANNOT define clearly WHY jeopardy to souls even exists, and what God sought to LEARN by it, that He arguably, did not already know? And I don't mean tests here, I mean possession, deception, 'counterfeit religions', marks on forehead, strong delusion and other such concepts.
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  104. Yes, and I wonder how that happened. And why God would want it to...?
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  105. Supposedly they don't accept their, er, predilections, not the 'people'...
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  106. @Natalie Roman - supposedly that's their 'own conscious choice' but I no longer fully buy that. So much is decided before they are born, and invisible disguised rebel angels may get MORE free will than yet to be born people, too.
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  107. Sorry, I recall a choice being given to TWO PEOPLE (with limited understanding of the stakes to MORE than the two of them?) but not much after that? And meanwhile, rebel angels get to disguise themselves, pose as 'beings of light' and set up 'counterfeit religions'?
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  108. IT WAS TWO PEOPLE. Do remember that. Also, two people who did not yet HAVE Knowledge of good and evil.
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  109. It's a somewhat ambiguous and blurry book at times, yes.
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  110. If angels FOLLOW him for no good reason, rin, and believe they can TOPPLE an OMNIPOTENT God then how, may I ask, were they able to DEVELOP such views, and have such ignorance, thereof?
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  111. Somehow, not even many angels, and their view of God?
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  112. This is very true. But I suppose some of them might be asking more about what is 'normal' versus what is consensual. Just my impression of them.
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  113. And how many are expected to ever reach the truth of being a full Christian? Do Catholics count, @Esther Kamara ? Quakers? Jesuits? East Orthodoxists or Charismatics? And what happens to Jews?
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  114. Fair enough, but what IS a reprobate, and what IS natural? This has been getting confused.
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  115. What do you mean? You mean He made SEVERAL differing bibles that are not always the same, or interpreted, or even translated, the same, and were restricted from many they were preached to, from being read, for a large part of Christendom's history? And by 'make mistakes', where does permitting wars, slavery, pogroms or inquisitions, fit in? And were gay people to be put, to death, or 'cured', and when, @シTranquility ?
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  116. What, you mean become completely indolent, inactive and disinterested in wars, schisms, pogroms, a Spanish Inquisition and pro slavery priests, during much of past Christendom, @Allice Son , and pave way for 'free will' of closeted clerics, translators, priests and theologians, over those of ordinary, often illiterate or poorly protected people, sent into war after war? And who is the jeopardizer too, and why was Satan owed jack all, to begin with, on this world?
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  117. Interesting answer, indeed.
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  118.  @exioz99  For all the times it doesn't. Also, can 'therapy' work on gay people, without psychological harm, or not?
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  119. Well, for many, 'cultural Christianity' can seem a bit saner, at times? And which one tolerated abuse of Jews, @Tanesha Reynoso ?
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  120. Epecially if we have to conclude Numbers 31:17 and Leviticus 25:46 were ALSO his words...
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  121.  @harrygarris6921  Well, err, ask the Holy Spirit? That would be something - and aid credentials, too. Also, this same God, must embody events in Hosea 9:12, 1 Samuel 15:3, and 2 Samuel 15:18? Maybe. Your experience sounds much like what Hindus, Sikhs and even Muslims, say, too. If that can perhaps be counterfeited, why not your own...? Hard, of course, to define, to outsiders, considering.
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  122.  @BK-eo8bs  Don't have 'sinners' in charge of MAJOR CHURCHES then. Or a thoroughly naive and inexperience man as Steward of Eden...?
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  123.  Spencer Tracy  Well, is forced marriage ever not a sin? I find it hard to tell, from Numbers 31.
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  124. Never mind, I come more to talk to other people you constantly butt into, I think.
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  125. Why does the danger exist at all? How can two humans, who did not know what good or evil were, CHOOSE meaningfully for all humans to separate from God? And did they know they had that power? Plus, why was Satan owed any access to them, or this world, at all?
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  126. I think she MAY have mean't that the feeling/desire for each can both FEEL similar, though? Internally?
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  127. It seems to me there are variations in how the verses are, ah, understood, between churches?
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  128. So, how did you do in Numbers and Leviticus 25, if I may ask? Also, what of Corinthians 2:14?
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  129. Why, did you either, @Agent piggles ? Go swat up on Jeremiah 2:30, Joshua 7:24, Numbers 31:52 and Ezekiel 24:21, maybe. It could be revealing.
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  130. So, why COULD Satan ever re-enter heaven and stand in God's presence, during Job, then @Schecid Navarrete ?
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  131. Well done for saying it. Given miscommunication is one of the major tragedies of the age (and siege mentalities)
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  132. Much of the New Testament and various other select verses seem invested in trying to lecture on how people can 'know' they are right. Othertimes, they speak about 'discernment' as a power.
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  133. How can one tell? And which kind of one?
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  134. @Skylar Carey Sorry, wrong. It says that of fellow Hebrews, and some guests. It differentiates from those 'purchased from the nations around you - you can buy, sell them, and bequeath them, to your relatives - they are yours, for life'. (Leviticus 25:46 - paraphrased) Please note that the King James Bible uses 'bondsmen' throughout, but the clearer above context, evidently trumps that, nevertheless. It is very important to focus on the 'for life' part - as well as fates of some daughters of some such... servants... and when they can be released (or not)
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  135. @Jack Noelle - And if God is just FINE with that occurring to it, so it be it, I guess. Not like it was fully COMPLETE anyway?
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  136.  @shannonneifert2075  Sure, when you tell me what kind of 'marriages' were in Numbers 31:18, and Deuteronomy 21, thanks. That would help establish further parametres, here. And yes, 'missing the mark' is 'missing the mark' every time. Is it deliberate? Dunno. See also - hamartia.
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  137.  @eliscko8968  Who the frell are you to say? And how successful have you been, with John 14:12-13, by the way?
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  138.  @eliscko8968  I'm waiting to hear why you are qualified to say this, Eliscko.
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  139. Supposedly, they have better methods than they'd been using lately, like shaming, and conversion therapy. But they don't seem to remember how to 'use them' much?
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  140. And how do we determine that? And considering fruit, how did the blood libel on medieval Jews or assorted feudal conflicts get started?
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  141.  @Nameless10949  Try burning your copy of Leviticus 25:46, and Numbers 31:52 and 2 Samuel 15:18, and I'll consider it (learning where I'm wrong) - or at least look hard at them, without an apologist intermediary talking in your ear, at the time. Odd given Torquemada say, never got to be 'told where he was wrong', when it counted, too. Or Gregory XIII, or many others. And the cost, was high.
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  142. Given the bible has omissions, what should they next do?
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  143. And equivocation, is equivocation. Now - what, sort of marriages, were in Deuteronomy 20, 21, and Judges 21:14... plus, Numbers 31:18... And were they all... righteous? @Tranquilizer3487 
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  144. Some bits are, some aren't. Many talk of fallen nature/worlds, etc. Christianity has that fall BEGIN in heaven, though. And some such faiths are duallistic, and others less so.
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  145. Yes, Hades, Sheol etc. Seems like this often FORGOTTEN all together, by many church teachers. Although Catholics do believe many, Saints especially, had been already raised to heaven ahead of time. Despite evidence no other humans will literally be there - if we go by the idea of a Kingdom being erected upon EARTH at the end...
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  146. Why, was this God born a sinner, missing the mark, and making mistakes, too, @Scarlett : And bragging about His killin's, even of kids, too...? And what HAPPENED to gay people in Christendom, post Matthew 5:18, anyway...
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  147. Nope.
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  148. The Old Testament can be used on my greasy buttocks, before I try to ever defend Numbers 31, 11, 15, and Samuel 15:15...
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  149. And perhaps, in part, because they were able to skip many of the tensions and wars, that resulting in having to find compromises between sects and denominations?
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  150. Comment on James 3:15. What IS mean't by nature here? Compared to Romans 1:20?
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  151. And what about the bit about 'earthy, demonic nature'? Is nature divine, or earthy and demonic? And how many in the ancient world, looking at nature, concluded it had one or MORE creators, from that? Perhaps in tension with each other?
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  152. A lie? That Satan offered to paint a more loving picture than God? Oh well, that explains Numbers 11:19, Exodus 21:20 and Numbers 31:14 then, I guess. I DON'T THINK...
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  153. What's an enemy? Even a sceptic? Or someone who thinks some of the guidelines are errant and could be used to persecute? And why could Satan REACH Earth at all? Did God want him to?
    2
  154.  @cantcoder  But what would you suggest instead? Were core Christian values working during much times of anti Semitism, slavery, and stoning gay people? What was the next move?
    2
  155. And sin NEVER spontaneously occurred in heaven before?
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  156. Does it say rape is an abomination, too? In all cases?
    2
  157. Which kind of them?
    2
  158. And maybe clear up some ambiguities and omissions as well - potentially.
    2
  159. But this raises the matter of how much those were or were not God's direct PREFERENCES at the time, and why he is very clear cut about those, but vaguer in, say, Leviticus 25?
    2
  160. And, if not careful, those that shout loudest may end up defining the, er, brand?
    2
  161. So do you, Mitchell?. Tell me about Numbers 31:17?
    2
  162. Also, is a book that seems to not quite cover all it claims to...
    2
  163. And why was any angel's heart deceitful? In a perfect realm? Also, why was Satan OWED anything?
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  164. In a once flawed heaven? And why was Satan owed anything? Also, what about Jews?
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  165. Hahahahahahahaha - start with Numbers chapter 14, I guess.
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  166. Leviticus and Numbers 11:19 seems - an abomination to me. And Exodus 21:20?
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  167. So, how much do you follow Jesus, say, over and above Paul? Or James, or Timothy? And what is your take on Corinthians 2:14, and Romans 1-1 to 1:20?
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  168. I was addressing it to Jamie.
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  169. And why was it on this world in the first place? And why was heaven ever flawed?
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  170. Even Esau? Even the Middianites, Moses' in laws, by marriage? And all of Ham's line? And Medieval era Jews in Spain?
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  171.  @hannahwilliams4907  Then why was some less protected than others? For persecution, enslavement, wars, and confused readings?
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  172.  @hannahwilliams4907  So He takes no responsibility for those things occurring? And what WAS meant to happen to gay people, through most of Christendom? Now a... cure... is being offered? That is hit or miss? Were they meant to be put to death, prior that? And why soweth rival beliefs on this world, if it's seen as a crime oft worthy of death to worship/follow those?
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  173.  @hannahwilliams4907  And I don't condone Leviticus 25:46 in ANY circumstances, nor the issue that Satan GOT ALL of his powers from this God, kept them, and had access to the one world he most wanted to harm. And that most humans had NO SAY in that apple, whatsoever. So inherit deliberately sabotaged natures? And get framed as criminals for worshipping other gods, when YHWH soweth those very gods or concepts here? Or their soil, at least?
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  174.  @hannahwilliams4907  Now, answer the question - per the law from which, often, 'not one jot or tittle will pass' - were they meant to be put to death, or not, in Christendom?
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  175.  @hannahwilliams4907  I will make no more replies unless youtube does NOT delete my comments. Now, what WAS meant to happen to Gay people, in Christendom?
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  176.  @hannahwilliams4907  And the bit about 'bequeath them to your relatives' and 'they are yours for life' are hard to read any other way, correct?
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  177.  @hannahwilliams4907  Yes, so maybe that caused uneccessary, prolonged grief? If they were to be totally irrelevant verses, post 70 AD? And what was meant to occur to gay people?
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  178. Yes, but the persecutors often feel THEY are the ones doing what is right, and mandated, and trying to 'save' people. As, oddly enough, sometimes happened in the Inquisition, too. So it can often FEEL a bit confusing...
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  179. They do know a fair lot - although I am still waiting to hear how many humans and animals the Earth CAN house, if there is no death - per one cut off discussion I had with one.
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  180. How MANY Christianities are there - plus how many ought there to be?
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  181. And for gaps, in it?
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  182. From how many denominations?
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  183. Absolutely. That and the numerous inconsistencies and hypocrisies. Still technically an agnostic, but I've seen little to say chaos or favouritism isn't rampant.
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  184. I think she may have meant how both feelings 'seem' right, at the time?
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  185. Dunno, seemingly one ignorant suicidal angel and TWO ignorant Stewards in a Garden, apparently unaware of the wider stakes, @Amelia Hodge? And are 'natural men' per 1 Corinthians 2, BORN more spiritually impaired, than others, potentially?
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  186. Doesn't sound that Pauline though? Shouldn't a discussion about the jeopardy (however it began) of human souls be VERY clear cut and simple?
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  187. So why could demons set foot upon Earth?
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  188. What norm? And what's normal for angels in heaven?
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  189. So were they ever God's preference then? And why did He seem more clear over not mixing fabrics, than about what slavery was, at the time?
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  190. So, which bits must not be spread by the sword?
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  191.  Ebon Knight  I did - and how many are meant to exist, per God's intent?
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  192.  Ebon Knight  A mere commenter, as it were, inquiring on what the aim of the last 1500 years was?
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  193. Any thoughts on Numbers 31:17, though?
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  194. Does He speak to you often, then, * Jemmitza * ?
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  195.  @noahremnek3615  And even the kids there?
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  196. ​ @noahremnek3615  Homosexual kids, really? Also, did the captives have a voluntary say, in being married, in Numbers 31:17? And what are your views on Numbers 5:11?
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  197.  @noahremnek3615  And? The only ones NOT slaughterred in that event were the VIRIGNAL women, who were taken captive, yes? So what became of them?
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  198. And what was Numb£rs 31:17 trying to say? How was S£xual cons£nt handl£d th£r£? And in D£ut£ronomy 20:20?
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  199. Any proof of this, though, and why do we send ourselves, @Josias Sarabia ? Including 'natural men' as Paul so vaguely defines them - and did He also EQUALLY love Medieval Spanish Jews, too, concerning taking any - well, any ACTION on their behalf?
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  200. So where did Adam's grandchildren come from?
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  201. And yet something often seems... off?
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  202. How? Clarify? Did Eve pass on weakened free will, or not? Or at least, the result that people now CANNOT see God, OR the disguised fallen angels?
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  203. And what were female prisoners in Numbers 31:17 made for?
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  204.  @theinfiniteabyss1257  Well, was it also edited? The Bible. Adjusted. How much harm did one word choice (typoi) do in 1 Corinthians 10, also?
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  205. I'd be happy to hear more about that. How do they interpret Corinthians 2:14, and Romans 1:20, for instance?
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  206. And how do they do that? Consistently, I mean? Do you feel conversion therapy centres are effective? Also, how much of nature is Satan allowed to control?
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  207. Really: how often was that? In between various categorising up of people? As Paul of Tarsus may do?
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  208. Well, it seems to me like we have the makings of another schism on our hands? I though Discernment was supposed to avert this kind of uncertainty? Where has the key of Knowledge gone?
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  209. I'm talking more about whether such important contexts and messages are CLEARLY and consistently communicated, more, at this point?
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  210. Maybe not. Why is there so much variation? And what does Romans 11:32 mean?
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  211. But they may be HUMANS. And have you hated, or left, mother and father, Spencer?
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  212. And what did it say in Numbers 31:17, about those captives, also? I am still confused.
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  213. And yet 'not one jot or tittle will pass from the law'..? Also probably means Numbers 31:17, too...?
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  214. And Numbers 31:17 was moral...? Consensual too...?
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  215. And the kids, too?
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  216. Also, how do we know they knew YHWH existed?
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  217. Isn't it rather hard to keep it all straight? And what of Discernment? And why can demons reach this world at all?
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  218. But not just those. And where do the Eastern Orthodox fit in? How much of the splits are according to divine plan, either?
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  219.  @matthaschanged  And why did those mere ceremonial laws ever exist? And does God show favouritism to one tribe, over another... Leviticus 25 wasn't JUST ceremonial, too. Meanwhile, why would Satan be ALLOWED to be the 'father' of anyone? Or keep any powers.
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  220.  @matthaschanged  And to what end? Why set them apart? And does that reflect on the attempts of any OTHER culture to make contact with God? Or were they 'spiritually dead'?
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  221. Probs. The bureaucracy seems a bit vague.
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  222. And neither should activity in Numbers 31:14 or Samuel 15:15 be expressed, maybe?
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  223. So why would angels ever act unusually? Why would they rebel, or want to? And why would they ever believe He was defeatable?
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  224. Glad you do. Can you tell me WHY demons were ever permitted to set foot onto Earth? And whether God wanted them to?
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  225. @Natalia Robinson - please explain 1 Corinthians 2:14, if you would, if such people are BORN or not, spiritually incapacitated, compared to other peoples; and how much of nature IS reliable, or opposed to God, or not? Quite in contrast to what Romans 1:20 implies, elsewhere, of nature? And how much of nature, post Fall, can or cannot Satan corrupt, alter or partially control?
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  226.  @nataliarobinson1630  Choose? How? Do you choose to be attracted to men? Prove it, please. And what is a 'natural man' ala 1 Corinthians 2 anyway? Why is Paul suddenly treating THAT term - natural - as pejorative, too? And how often is the word whore used in the Bible? Or even earthy words?
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  227. (earthier)
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  228.  @nataliarobinson1630  It was a rude word, was my point. And I'm agnostic, thanks. Also, what IS a 'natural man' and how much choice did they have being born it?
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  229. How do any angels become ignorant of God in heaven, anyway? Where sin began first?
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  230. I tend to think it's what gets translated and world wide advertised, that matters more than what was originally written, for God's intent, @K a l p o s i a . Otherwise, there has to be what is called a 'retraction', just like ANY other misprint or libel or fraudulent statement, in the human world?
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  231. Are we not His sons and daughters too? And those angels who got MORE choice than we ever got, to be born 'spiritually dead' or not, @Beanos ? And what of coerced marriage too - does the Bible (hint, Old Testament, particularly) say never to do it? And as you say, it was a temporary death. Those encouraged to leave their old faith or culture, at times (and maybe relations and friends) and convert, cannot be guaranteed the same will apply to those they parted from.
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  232.  @sheevpalpatine6139  Which and how many of us, are spiritual children, precisely? Bearing in mind 2 Timothy 1, Jude 1:4, Romans 8:29 to 9:22, and Matthew 7:18, here? Context must be explicated. Also, how many of you truly meet the John 14:12 criteria, today.
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  233. Neither did one third of the angels, who lived directly with this God, and had NO doubts, @Fern Rod Jr. So you'll pardon me if I begin to question the track record of the supposedly flawless, non jealous or bipolar, creator, who tends at times to become indolent, disconnected and turns a blind eye to some detestable things?
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  234. @Britt Barber Well, oddly, it was also ALLOWED to be changed. Kind of the attention to detail I'd expect from the nitwit God of Numbers 14, I guess.
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  235. What do you define intimate, to mean, Spencer? Along with tender, reciprocal, and consensual?
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  236. Is the word complete? And why can demons reach Earth? I mean, be allowed to?
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  237. And the answers I often get are not COMPLETE. I am usually asking about Jeopardy - to souls - and the true contexts of free will, related to curses.
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  238. Why was the Law there initially? Was it God's PREFERENCE or just an Accommodation He made?
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  239. Because they could not make laws for themselves, or because they wanted certain severities? Out of fear? Of being led into captivity again? And how much is this subtext left buried? Jehovah seems very strict on some parts - and very open ended, say, in Leviticus 25:44...?
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  240. And I assume that is as God wished it?
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  241. And the apologise for Leviticus 25:44 and Numbers 31:17 - this too, I take it, is a moral responsibility?
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  242. So much for it answring, all, th£n.
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  243. Or with why he let fallen angels reach Earth?
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  244. Which could well have been in March anyway.
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  245. Does this word say WHY fallen angels could gain any access to Earth at all? And if Adam and Eve knew if they even existed?
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  246. This the, er, incomplete narrative...
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  247. @Nathan Desta Sorry, and heck of a lot has NOT BEEN revealed yet, and a heck of lot of odd inactions have also taken place. Makes it hard to say what YHWH will TOLERATE or not, in both Medieval times, and Hebrew ones.
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  248. @Nathan Desta Now, does Leviticus 25:46 say 'they are yours for LIFE' or not?
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  249. @Nathan Desta Proof? Proof proof, proof? 'They are yours for LIFE' - yay or nay? And clearly the distinction did NOT TAKE for many priests, kings and authorities IN Christendom, for centuries afterward? Or slavery would have ended long before 1800 AD.
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  250. @Nathan Desta And what of how say, Matthew 27:25 was to be interpreted? THAT was left messy for centuries, with slander of 'Christ killers', shunning, torture and worse, culminating in Torquemada et al. And what WAS to become of gay people? Prior to the sudden talk of a ... cure?
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  251. @Nathan Desta Right, and given Jesus SAID you must be 'more righteous than the Sanhedrim' and 'not ONE jot or tittle will pass from the law', does that mean the death sentences WOULD often still apply, to gay people and others, later? Or that it could easily be, interpreted, that way? And given slavery DID persist and get nastier, within Christendom later...?
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  252.  @samgamgee5910  Have you fulfilled John 14:13, yet, by the way? I'm prepared to wait, a bit. Also, how did Satan, 'come to the Father'... in the time, of Job? And also, why. Whilst the Dead Sea Scrolls have all sorts of views and texts in them - even some Gnostic ones. And speaking of the demiurge, too, I think? Oh, and lastly - does the Bible openly condemn, coerced marriages, in any form - and how often?
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  253.  @samgamgee5910  Anyway, you can take a lot longer, if you like? I'm on vacation, this coming day.
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  254. Some extreme arms and mobilised groups (mobilised by politicians?) may argue that - at times. Others do not necessarily.
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  255. What of it's omissions?
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  256.  @Alexa-lq2fo  Ah, that add fuel to the fires of confusion, no doubt? So, just to clarify - Satan then CAN'T alter bits of human nature, etc, then?
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  257. How? Did Eve make it so her descendants could not SEE God, or the disguised fallen angels then loose? Was free will weakened? And what is the nature of the curse on Ham's son?
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  258. But they'd know SOMEBODY was there. And they might know from WHERE and who they became in JEOPARDY? Rather than from TWO people, who had almost NO knowledge, inc of good and evil, and had unwitting power to affect the fates of others? And what of the disguised angels? Who can set up 'counterfeit religions'?
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  259. Do we inherit weakened free will from Eve? Yes or no? What knowledge also DID she and Adam have, if they did NOT have knowledge of good and evil? And what becomes once language is confused, of various tribes at Babel? Do they retain knowledge there are disguised fallen angels?
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  260. But Numbers 31:17 was?
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  261. Hello?
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  262. And where does Numbers 11:19 and 31:17 fit with this?
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  263. And how do you compare that to Deuteronomy 21:14? Or Numbers 11:19?
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  264. Checklist needed?
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  265. And it didn't seem to stick. So, when does God prioritise translations?
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  266. See also the words Arsenokoi and Arsenokoist - of unclear translation. Or Paul's perhaps vague use of 'effeminate'.
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  267. But everyone WAS created, though? And are Jews His children or not, currently?
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  268. That comes from desperation in part. May I ask why any angels would feel they lacked anything?
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  269. So where does Paul's unclear views in Corinthians 2:14 and Romans 1:20 end up? Which people was he referring to? Did he mess up?
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  270. I mean the one about the Natural Man. How many different uses of 'natural' is Paul going to use? For the illustrative AND pejorative senses? And what of James 3:15? And where do Jews, Jains and Buddhists fit into that view? Many do very much TRY, and may achieve GREAT things. Ghandi too. But many priests have turned a curiously blind eye to some things, from the medieval period onward... things that may backfire badly. Including the blood libel on Jews, the Inquisition, and some arguments about slavery. Not that I expect them to be perfect, anyway, but in terms of their being reliably GUIDED... well...
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  271. Talk of no excuses can be discussed more when we learn HOW much of nature Satan was permitted to control (by fairly ignorant Eve, God, or whoever) and which bits are there by design or not. Including parasites and diseases. Some we do spread, some we upset the balance of nature. But not, perhaps, all? And as for fallen angelic saboteurs who supposedly can affect nature...
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  272. Why did he ever make himself invisible? And why would angels not follow him? Or grow suicidally prideful?
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  273. It's more you seem schizoid and always on the verge of a falling out or schism or war, per various competing verses tugging at each other, and the seeds of siege mentality... Paul arguably started it.
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  274. And in Numbers 31:17, are such marriages CONSENSUAL, Gabrielle?
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  275. And the devil could REACH this world at all... WHY, Sania? Specifics? And was he mean't to?
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  276. Eh, screw and incomplete book, I say...? Plus, look up the word arsenokoit, maybe, or how many interpret it as about pederasty instead...
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  277. @Sandy Gem Sure, now tell me why angels went bonkers in heaven, and why Romans 1:18 did not apply to THEM far more surely than it does to post Fall, post 'natural men' or 'spiritually dead' humans? I did not see any angels get saddled with such pre incarnate conditions - did you? And how natural are the 'relationships' that Deuteronomy 21, defines, too?
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  278. Okay. And sexual consent, as it was depicted in Numbers 31 and Deuteronomy 21, was...?
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  279. (please wiki them if required)
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  280. So Deuteronomy 20:10 is consistent with John 4:18?
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  281. So, why would ESAU inherit Adam's/Cain's attitude? And why be pickbed oute for hatrbed? And what of Corinthians 2:14?
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  282. And does He tolerate rape ever?
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  283. I think she might have meant about how both forms of attraction can 'feel' normal, though?
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  284. No, it shouldn't feel normal. But I guess she assumed if same sex attraction can feel normal (internally) then so can this type?
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  285. Huh? Relevance? And who warped what bits of nature or sexual nature? Satan, Adam, or individual humans?
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  286. Ah, they are, then, are they? And would you compare, the great sin... of 2 Samuel 24, for us, too? To give us a fuller, framework. @SuicideboysGrey59 
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  287. Only one involves, consent, however. Oh, and apparently - neither, does Deuteronomy 21:11... @dookiyeh 
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  288. And neglecting to sort out, a slave trade (a fairly prolonged one, also) in Christendom, meantime... is what? Plus, Inquisition... Also, they were prisoners. Why would, they, consent? Or in Deuteronomy 21:11. @dookiyeh 
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  289. Deeds, not words (or inaction) History remembers.
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  290. Even angels - in the direct presence of God himself - who pervaded heaven? How very, very odd. And they KEEP their powers post exile, no less...
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  291. Well, I don't think Numbers 31:17 defined it well, either... That said, she PROBABLY mean't how the feelings in each case both can 'feel' normal and right, to the one experiencing them? Taken in and of themselves...
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  292. Can you tell me why disloyal angels were allowed any access to Earth, by the way?
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  293. And whilst at it, find out why Satan could reach this world at all....? Also, why Stewards would NOT have knowledge of good and evil?
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  294. Saviour from what? Ourselves, God's wrath, or Iblis?
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  295. @Joshua Ortiz - to which description of Him, and in which church? And what of Mark O'Shiro, and others, who begged to talk to Him, post being shunned by much of their church, and BEGGED not to be gay, but did not receive an answer?
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  296.  @joshuaortiz6739  It happens, though. because there IS NOT NOW a SINGLE consistent CHURCH, is there? And many are still BORN into all sorts of them. And if people still FAIL to get the help, what then? Also, do 'natural men' ala 1 Corinthians 2:14, get the help, UNDERSTAND they even NEED help, relative to others, and feel any urge to do so? What are they BORN or not as? Also, how does a Hindu want to sin? A Jew? A Sikh? By having another God? But they can't see which one, anyway, and the very IDEA of there being other gods seems seeded by divine intent? At least, the belief of there being so? Or even counterfeit ones, actually disguised saboteur angels, maybe?
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  297.  @joshuaortiz6739  And it was pretty darn BAD in 1572 too, in the Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Day, or earlier in Spain, and in Africa, depending on who you were. And much of that occurred within Christendom. Or in simply being born into sectarian or feudal wars to often fight other Christians, with not much choice?
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  298. Well, you'd know. Why could he reach this world, again? And was he mean't to?
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  299. But then got tacked on, and nothing stopped them...?
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  300. Maybe that is valid? Describe Numbers 31:17 to me, please...
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  301.  @eltonjunior2832  Yes, but do we need a new, or EXPANDED, and partly trimmed book, or not? And was Leviticus 25:46 mean't to be discerned one way, or another, via the Spirit...?
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  302. So, why would God permit this? After precedent of languages being confused, before?
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  303. Does it FEEL like sins? And are they capable of tenderness? Yes or no? How many denominations are there, also?
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  304. Supposedly. But then Paul introduces various categories about supposed reprobates, carnally minded people, and the so called 'natural man' in Corinthians? Which confuses me, because elsewhere he implies nature is a GOOD thing?
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  305. And why could fallen angels reach Earth?
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  306. Saviour from what? To who is the ransom paid? And why could fallen angels reach Earth...
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  307. Even angels? And what became delusional in them? Some of them, I mean?
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  308. It FEELS incomplete to many. People focus so much on the message of charity and love, they miss on the problem of conveying the OTHER half, which is the idea of 'brokenness' and sin nature. And whether it feels more paradoxical than it used to.
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  309. And when does division and omissions end?
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  310. Presumably no angel is born suicidally and delusionally prideful in heaven either. But clearly that place had undisclosed problems...
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  311. Why doesn't He TELL us himself? No mixed reveals from Fatima or Teresa D'Avila about hell or other details? Or translation mix ups? Is it a Wise Fire God sends, or total destruction to the unsaved? Make... up... your... minds. As well as whether you can ADD to a book that BADLY needs expanding...
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  312. Which? And did you learn WHY Satan could reach Earth, Enzo? and if Eve knew he existed?
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  313. Stoning is maybe more painful than crucifixion...
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  314. Maybe? Or she meant that the FEELING or desires can both seem 'right' at the time, perhaps, @Ashley Jones ?
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  315. Why did it not work on Jews? And why did there come to be a blood libel on them, by European Christians? Also, where do Middianites and Amalekites fit in?
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  316. What, to BEQUEATH, ah, servants, to your relatives, you mean? For LIFE?
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  317.  @tongaofa  You have read Leviticus 25:46, perhaps?
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  318. On that note, could you tell me why Satan was allowed to reach Earth, and if Eve knew he existed?
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  319. NOBODY's made it there yet, correct. None of us. So why brag? Plus, original church belief apparently NEVER said you'd go to heaven, but to God's kingdom on EARTH...
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  320. But how does the church become more perfect? And avoid, say, historical oddities like blood libels upon Jews?
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  321. Sorry, may I ask how much control over nature Satan is permitted to have over nature? Via Eve's choice, or otherwise?
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  322. Although Leviticus 25:46 also says that slaves can be bequeathed to relatives?
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  323. Did he create it though?
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  324. Which version are we talking about, though? It changed a lot over time.
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  325. And why can fallen angels even set foot upon Earth?
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  326. So why are churches still schisming them? Why did Christian nations EVER go to war with each other? And why was there EVER a blood libel upon Medieval Jews?
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  327.  @Nameless10949  too late, then, compared to 'typoi' in 1 Corinthians 10, which did not help Torquemada, 'understand more clearly', for example? And what did happen to many gay people, by default, in Christendom? Was it ever the same that befell many 'witches', too, for centuries, say.
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  328. What of yours? How many do you have? And do they have context yet as to how much voluntary choice they had? Or whether Satan controls parts of nature, per James 3:15 or elsewhere?
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  329.  Anthony A.  Just look over Leviticus 25:46 and Exodus 21:20 before you go further, please? And did Jehovah show favouritism, to Hebrews and some groups?
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  330. Does definitely lend to that view, easily.
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  331. Not anymore, anyway.
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  332.  @annavilloth  Er, shellfish, yes. A goats cooked in mother's milk.
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  333.  @annavilloth  (and a goat...)
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  334.  @annavilloth  Deuteronomy, Leviticus, Chronicles, Judges, I think? Mostly Leviticus.
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  335.  @annavilloth  The dietary ones. Simply look up Leviticus, prohibitions.
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  336.  @annavilloth  Yes, but why was such things needed at all? Including the much more NASTY looking bits of Leviticus 25?
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  337.  @annavilloth  Those laws? And especially Leviticus 25:46? If they were never going to be perfect, or long term, anyway? And Jesus also said 'not one jot or tittle will pass from the law' in some cases.
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  338. And why is heaven safe, Carly Cakes Santos?
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  339.  @carlycakessantos7335  Clarify please, then, how pride can become both suicidal, and apparently, IGNORANT pride, within an angel? And why any other angels would EVER believe he could win a revolt? And how such ignorance and dissatisfaction could even manifest, in God's direct presence? Also, per Luke 13:24 and later, how narrow is this path to actually get, and why was any soul put at any such risk, to begin with? Was Satan owed anything?
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  340. Oh, I suppose so... So, ah, just for clarity's sake, why COULD disloyal angels set any foot upon Earth, and did God want them to? And did Adam and Eve have any idea their existed?
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  341. But why are souls even in jeopardy? That also relies on knowledge of Brokenness, right? But do people perceive that the same way? And do Jews, for instance, perceive those things in the same way, or feel already guided?
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  342. That is the claim, yes. Inaction and division may make this messier...
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  343. Why ah, did He have to ah, DIE at all? To appease who? Himself? And why was Satan owed anything, @Nick Schaible ?
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  344.  ttt ttt  I still find some odd omissions, in that, at times, though.
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  345.  @nickysweeps  Well, it does and it did. So maybe the omissions should be filled in? And Paul said to SHUN some people altogether, yes? 'Carnal minds' and even the 'natural men' of 1 Corinthians 2, at times? And it certainly SEEMS like Satan was owed something, as he - kept various powers; including of disguise and possession; had access to Eden, and to Earth; and got to 'test' or 'tempt' people? Or whole tribes? Scattered since Babel, maybe? And left more vulnerable than before? And how do TWO people chose on our behalf, anyway?
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  346.  @nickysweeps  Yes, but many other churches do, and will continue to? And didn't gay people used to be put to death, only a few centuries ago? Certainly, I do not approve...
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  347. But did Eve pass on WEAKENED free will, or not? In that people became UNABLE to see God, or the disguised fallen angels?
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  348.  @AjinJose137  No - you go and read it. Read Deuteronomy 21:13, and Numbers 31:18. Then tell me, about the 'marriages' in both. Then read Leviticus 25:46, too, and 1 Kings 14. Let us see how assured you remain? But no, much as I want to see it as 'anti violence', it's outweighed by all the pro violence stories, later. Like 2 Kings 10.
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  349. And what becomes of prisoners, in Numbers 31:17?
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  350. I still need to know of the prisoners, sorry.
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  351. No - the FEMALE captives, from Caanan. What were they made to be, afterward?
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  352. I can. I just would maybe like it if you'd READ it. It can also be found online very easily, in all Biblical versions/translations.
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  353. As a UK agnostic, I can at least know that most pastors WILL be trustworthy, if sometimes a little out of depth. If this was America I was in, might be more of a minefield.
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  354. Ah, and that it's fully safe, now?
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  355. I assume she mean't that both of them 'claim to experience an uncontrollable attraction' to someone...
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  356. Maybe, but given they are also capable of tenderness and mutual attraction...
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  357. So, it can;t be updated then? Nasty shock to kids reading Leviticus 256:46. And what of Romans 11:32? And Romans 1:20 seems to make way too BROAD a claim.
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  358. And what if the message has omissions?
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  359. What sinful one? The one Eve passed onto us, unwittingly? And sin first began in heaven, not Earth.
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  360. Nehemiah - some scripture is of LESS arguable use than others. And may actively be DANGEROUS if applied in many ways. As was done in medieval Christendom.
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  361. Sounds better, but how to do it? And does he two time with any religions, like Catholics, Muslims, Mormons, etc? Sort of joking on that one, but still confusing. And has He also told you, Ingrid, on why Satan was owed anything?
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  362. No, many have not, Mary. But do tell? What does 1 Corinthians 2:14 seek to say? And James 3:15? And why was Satan owed any access to this world, and to humans, at all? Also, what happens to Jews?
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  363. Prove it? And why was Torquemada not delivered from being an extremist or Sadist? And why did he keep any authority? And why were not all angels born of the spirit, @A1ewing ?
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  364. Given it's full of holes, spends VERY little time on how HEAVEN itself could possibly foster sin, and bases it's logic on an inherited curse affecting all the unborn, how fluent do you expect her to be, Metus?
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  365. EDEN was NOT SAFE. Unborn people were NOT SAFE. And the POINT was?
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  366. @JoAnna - and what proportion of all Christians do think lukewarm, or dissimilar, and how many are meant to? And which churches are of are not properly guided by, or Discerning, the Will of the Spirit? And has that led to further confusion? Also, what of outright potential omissions?
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  367. Straightforward? Are we including Deuteronomy 21:14, Samuel 15:15, and Numbers 11:19 in this?
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  368. But where does Corinthians 2:14 fit into this? Or 'strong delusion'? And was Esau loved less? Or medieval Jews?
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  369. Sorry can we FIRST discuss WHY demons could set foot upon this world, at all? And if God would make Himself unhappy?
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  370. Did He want many Jews in Spain in heaven, rapidly, though, @Flaps 40 ?
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  371. But we don't go to heaven - didn't you read Revelations, @Exposing Darkness ? And do you know what Sheol is...
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  372.  @exposingdarkness998  Yes, so nobody's gone to heaven or hell YET. And Revelations implies all get bodily raised FIRST, are judged, and then go to live in the new Kingdom - based upon EARTH. A new Earth, with a new heaven.
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  373.  @exposingdarkness998  Agnostic - and that is what I have seen in original text. Also, why can angels all chose their side right away, clearly knowing how many gods exist or not; but humans must go through a labyrinth and minefield, and with an impaired 'sin nature' no less.
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  374. Sounds like Nero Augustus Caesar to me, numerology wise...
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  375. @Royal Dior - well said, though I do wonder HOW all this is to be resolved, how many kinds of churches SHOULD exist or not, and what DID happen to gays in prior eras of Christendom. I fear it was sort of fatal, for many of them, within their laws, too?
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  376.  @monotonemai5723  Kinda, but that didn't can't, for many, as it was and end run around the sexual process. Also, what WAS to happen to reproduction, if the Fall had never happened?
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  377.  @monotonemai5723  (that didn't count, for many)
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  378.  @monotonemai5723  Barring the Mary Magdalene claims, anyway. Also, who is James the Just, and who was He born to? Or at least, the Apostle?
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  379.  @monotonemai5723  Mary Magdalene is usually said to be the women who anointed Jesus' feet. And yes, I have heard James was His brother. Presumably via traditional sexual intercourse, though?
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  380. And why was the only way to Eden for SATAN such an... EASY one, for him to reach here, @grace kamau ? And why was heaven EVER imperfect or unstable...?
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  381.  @gracekamau1338  Some would say the 'way' he got here was... negligence? And perhaps some VERY odd favouring of his abilities and privileges, at times? And did they, Adam and Eve, have ANY IDEA Satan even EXISTED - or of the stakes beyond to TWO people? And Satan first rebelled IN HEAVEN, first swayed hundreds of angels (one third, yes?) also IN heaven...
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  382.  @gracekamau1338  TWO humans choose to sin - remember? And had they ever SEEN anything die, yet? To know what that means? And why did they have that kind of authority, anyway? Including to transfer a whole world to Satan? When they were not equipped yet for the task?
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  383.  @gracekamau1338  Seems like they could have known MORE, though? If they were NOT to know what good or evil were, then what sort of knowledge WERE they mean't to know, to perform as Stewards? or to protect this world?
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  384. Okay, and why was the jeopardy in existence? Why could Satan reach Earth? Also, did Eve have any idea Satan existed? And what did she know of the stakes? Besides to herself and Adam, I mean?
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  385. Clarify. And did Eve KNOW if she could HAVE children, and might effect their free will? Make them UNABLE to SEE God, or the DISGUISED fallen angels around afterward?
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  386. Just denying the flesh? So, who told various PRIESTS that the Curse of Ham no longer applied, then? Or Leviticus 25:46?
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  387.  @haleybowkley5150  So, were those priests that applied those stories... badly... just not well trained, then?
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  388.  @haleybowkley5150  Various European priests in the era 800 AD to 1600 plus AD?
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  389.  @haleybowkley5150  Does this help your comprehension?
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  390.  @haleybowkley5150  And who corrected them? And what kind of people can be BEQUEATHED, ever?
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  391. TWO PEOPLE GOT that will. The will to ALTER the nature and will of ALL of their descendants, but apparently, not much KNOWLEDGE that they would be doing this? And what of the free will of rebel angels? To reach Earth, and disguise themselves as beings of light? Who gets more free will?
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  392. Some of them are, sure.
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  393. But why are there so many variations?
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  394. So where does Corinthians 2:14 fit in?
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  395. So, since you DID presumably study theology, then, can YOU tell us if Eve knew of the, ah, stakes to MORE than herself and Adam, before they met the snake?
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  396. I had noticed. What are you?
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  397. When? Even of the natural man? And Esau? And Jews post Matthew 27:25? And what WAS supposed to happen to then, or gays, afterward? With such vague definitions? And no indication parts of the old Law would NOT have passed? How many got put to death, in Europe?
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  398.  @marielc6130  Well, ask Him? I'm tired of this obvious avenue being neglected. And beating anyone near to death, or taking for potentially forceful marriage, will NEVER look generally 'normal' for most of history.
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  399.  @marielc6130  Sorry if that came across wrong, but some of us HAVE read ALL of Exodus 1, and Numbers 31...
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  400. Then why could, and would, angels want to rebel in heaven at all?
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  401. What in? What did they even think they lacked for? And how did Satan ever convince them they could DEFEAT an all powerful God who's divine Presence (attribute) they had directly been in? (something most humans never were in) Why was he also in heaven long enough to persuade so many? And what are the options for where to exile them from heaven - to?
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  402. And how much is it consensual, in those texts? Also, how much control over nature is Satan able to have?
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  403.  @reggieedouard4361  Cry me a ***king river friend. Why would God get in His own way again, also?
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  404.  @joelstout9735  Isn't that like doing evil? But INACTION can allow evil, too? So when is inaction a valid action, as it were, on the part of God? Or of the Spirit, guiding priests or kings?
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  405.  @reggieedouard4361  Also, as for all those versions of Himself that have sprung up, in assorted churches, and the violence that used to exist, between denominations? As well as why rebel angels keep any darn powers, post exile?
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  406.  @reggieedouard4361  Also, why was any of HEAVEN itself not right with Him, why were various Popes seemingly not right with Him (or were they?) and several Inquisitors, and consequentially, why did they retain any position or authority, if not so guided?
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  407. So was it God's preference, or an accommodation He made to humans? And does that include the Leviticus 25 laws, that were about.... other, topics?
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  408.  @Nitesam  And why is Satan owed anything, too? Why does He give one CRAP what this DELUSIONAL angel thinks of the loyalties of people not yet even born? Enough to let him KEEP powers and get anywhere near this world - knowing FAR more of good, evil, death, or the wider stakes, than Adam ever did...
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  409.  @Nitesam  From what? Himself? The corner He backed Himself into, to owe Satan any access to Earth, or keep powers, and making choices with none of the impairments post Fall humans had, by no choice, of their own, either...? And you ever read Joshua 7:24? Or Genesis 30:37 (that was an odd one...)
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  410.  @Nitesam  And left in some contradictions, not others - or changing personality, of that god, maybe...?
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  411. I've not met him? And why would Satan be allowed onto this world? And what is the 'natural man'? (Corinthians 2:14)
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  412. Is that like what inexplicably happened with one third of the angels, some claim? Who somehow became ignorant and gullible?
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  413.  @lilytaylor9059  how do they KNOW they are not following Him, then? Or do they think they ARE following Him? Via what SOME churches teach them? And what of bits that just are not CLEAR cut anyway? And are angels humans or not? What is your point? MY POINT is that all of this happened with angels FIRST, and that's much more INEXPLICABLE than occurring to humans who can't see them OR God post Fall...
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  414.  @lilytaylor9059  I thought God LOVED the world, though? And yet he lets his most UNTRUSTWORTHY servants have ANY access to it post exile? And did Eve even KNOW of those wider stakes? and had she even SEEN anything die, yet?
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  415.  @lilytaylor9059  And just because you give beings free will will not automatically make them majorly prideful, delusional or SUICIDAL, unless they BEGIN as ignorant of God, somehow, or disconnected from Him, in heaven, surely? Unlike us humans, who ARE mostly born that way? Via the hasty actions (and likely uninformed?) of TWO people?
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  416.  @lilytaylor9059  We don't have sinful nature by default, though, do we? Except via TWO people? Who did not seem AWARE they could alter all their descendant's nature, and alter their cognition and free will? And I HAVE read a lot of it and I DO ask a lot of people. And hypothetically, why cannot God simply tell you?
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  417. And he is trusted to retain all this, but EVE was not trusted to know what good and evil were, or of the wider stakes, beyond to her and Adam, before she met the snake? How does all this work?
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  418. Not from what I have seen...
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  419. And why can fallen angels set foot upon Earth at all?
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  420. Yes, is she fully equipped to discuss why Jeopardy exists? To souls?
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  421. I would say, it's a about two steps away (or less?) on an average day, from being one, especially in the USA, oftentime, perhaps, @Catherine Parra ? Or am I wrong?
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  422. @Paul Dee - and that's definitely nice, but I want all of you to do the same, and learn too, if possible? So if you wish to help people be 'safe'., could you explain why ANY soul was put into jeopardy to begin with, with no idea of good and evil by the TWO people given the 'choice', that no angel was asked to make, that altered all the other humans? And if you do not know, and the Bible does not reveal it, then asketh, if you would, of the Spirit, too.
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  423. @Hi My Name Is Yawn, show me your spirit powers, already. And incomplete book won't cut it.
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  424. Well, as they are not all UNITED, what next, then, @G ?
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  425. So what made him unhappy enough to drown women and children? When he KNEW what the results of fallen angels being able to reach Earth would be?
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  426. Yes, but how does this resolve schisms, ambiguities or uncertainties? And how does that relate to Reformed churches?
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  427. Sure, I guess so, @Trevor Bowen . Tell me if 2 Kings 10 or 1 Kings 20:36, however, were describing sins? And who's, in each case? How about in Deuteronomy 21:13, at the outside?
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  428. What, that they were demon infected? Also, was the marriages consensual? And about question 2...
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  429. Not sure why. if some of they key parts can't be told to a child, is there a point? And didn't Jesus say that kids saw what the wise could not?
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  430. So what do they see that the wise cannot...?
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  431. Additionally, kids understanding when Adam and Eve are individuals and when they stand for 'all humanity' is also something they may have issues with?
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  432. What should it actually BE, and how much is God happy to let it NOT be what He wanted it to be? Like with say, nature of some angels who could always SEE him, but still rebelled?
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  433. How do we know? Would it be simpler if there was a laying on of hands?
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  434. Including molest kids, or send Christian peasants to war with Christian peasants for the divine right of Kings? Sorry about that one - it always confused me.
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  435. Which version?
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  436. Well said. Plus, any view on consent, in Numbers chapter 31, verse 17 onward?
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  437. Hahahahahahahaha - tell that to many medieval theologians and popes.
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  438.  @quarepercutisproximum9582  All surmise, for many. And how many get fair access, to the whole word, and salvation, historically... (or even why the jeopardy was merited in first place)
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  439. Compare, say, to Matthew 7:18, or Luke 13:24, though...
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  440.  @tatianaalaniz6776  But why was any put in danger, and cannot ALL angels chose, from the beginning, freely, a 'side', and with no, impairment?
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  441. Okay - now clarify 1 Corinthians 2:14, and WHY any were born that way - and James 3:15 - and why Satan got any access to this world at all, @Anna?
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  442. YES. Yes it is. Via siege mentality and vague appeals to perfectability and purity.
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  443. And it has some WEIRD omissions and some very DANGEROUS verses too... Particularly, perhaps, for medieval Jews?
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  444. Or Paul's VERY odd logic for what a 'natural man' is, in 1 Corinthians, whilst elsewhere saying nature reliably witnesses for God...
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  445. And what of the more propagandistic looking bits, in Corinthians 2, Romans 1, Thessalonians 2:11, and so on?
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  446. and then Paul and James and Timothy complicated it, did they not? With talk of reprobates, carnal nature, and the 'natural man'?
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  447. @Christian Weidmann And is Numbers 31:17 ever shameful? Also, Samuel 15:15, or Leviticus 25:46? And was the latter in particular ever horrifically misinterpreted?
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  448. So why was it not protected better? More 'free will'?
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  449. Also, how is abortion viewed? Between Numbers 5:11, and later?
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  450. Is it a lifestyle, then? And what whether they experience tenderness? Also, how many wives did Solomon once have?
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  451. But I can't love the author of Numbers 11:19 and Exodus 21:20, that easily. Nor when I don't know whether jeopardy comes from heaven as well as salvation...
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  452. So it was never God's direct preferences, then? Despite how some things are worded more clearly than others? Including, perhaps, of Leviticus 25:46?
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  453. Also, the implication 'does God ever make mistakes'... I mean, He did 'repent' of making humans, once.
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  454. From the context of what she said, as far as I can tell - that both the desires can 'feel' right, at the time, essentially? So it's less about consent, and more about the feelings themselves?
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  455. And what about when Jehovah has pride, impulse, or violence? How do we draw conclusions from Numbers and Samuel 15?
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  456. What's Leviticus 25:46? Useful instruction and reproval, or not? Or Numbers 11:19?
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  457. I suspect it may come from either overactive reflexes, or a siege mentality, which can be stoked by some preachers. Plus all that Paulline ambiguity about the 'natural man' and what he is...
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  458. Ghandi, as I believe it was, said that, yes?
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  459.  @Yazzy.M  Such as? They did used to be put to death or go through controversial treatments... and this was only a recently offered thing, the latter.
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  460.  @Yazzy.M  Everyone has an agenda. That's what happens when the plan SEEMS to favour obscure readings of an INCOMPLETE book over simple openness and truth of some of the DEEPEST questions of life? Or at least, that's one reading on things. We do have laws in the West, of course, that currently protect many gay people. But about half of Christendom is content to adhere to that, and the other half seems to want to alter it. And I myself am hetero, anyway.
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  461.  @thechristianway5865  Hmm, can you tell me which specific bit? This is a bit broad, so far.
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  462.  @thechristianway5865  Again, how. And was Eve, designed to 'miss the mark'. Plus, see also, hamartia. And what was, Satan, designed, to do - and with how much, debilitating, pride, too?
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  463. Yes, that is awkward of her. Still, I tried to broadly frame, where she probably thought, she was coming from. Still, it does not give me much pleasure. @Allisongray-g8m 
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  464. @Kyana Salazar - and which ones are inheritable, if I might ask? And how can humans ever think they'd be like God? How would angels ever think it either, for that matter?
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  465.  @thankyouforbeingafriend9632  Inheritable sins? Original sin? Inheritable curses? And if Adam and Eve had no idea what good, evil or death was, how would they know if they were trying to be like God? Let alone choosing for all yet to be born people?
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  466. They used to.
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  467. Repeat in a circle ad nauseum....
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  468. Also, wasn't it ONLY Adam and Eve that actually GOT to choose if humans can SEE GOD, thereafter, Golden?
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  469. Well, they are mean't to have all answers, so when potential gaps or ambiguities come up, it can get..., dicey. Also, when I ask about such things, I and others can often get ignored or snubbed, also.
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  470. And what of omissions, in the text?
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  471. And what is a reprobate, a carnal mind, or a 'natural man' in Corinthians 2?
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  472. What about the bible's OMISSIONS, though?
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  473. Right. So just work around Corinthians 2:14, then? And Romans 1:20? And if they are no longer useful, do away with Samuel 15:15 and Numbers 11?
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  474. Or, they are all borderline nuts. See which ones, fulfil, John 14:12... say. @KP4views 
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  475. And why was the old rules there at all? And Leviticus 25:46? Do they add confusion? For kids, if nought else?
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  476. And why was heaven ever imperfect? And why would a blood libel on medieval Jews ever occur?
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  477. And do we trust that? Why make impure vessels? And in heaven, too? Is something missing from this?
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  478. Confusing and variable as it can sometimes be...?
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  479. God left himself open, apparently?
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  480. Screw your narrow road, whilst you OMIT why Satan got to KEEP ANY POWERS at all, or reach this world, @Leafninjaninja. And we will not 'hate' mother and father, even allegorically, whilst so many ambiguities and omissions exist, within this quite, quite, curious tale.
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  481. Never mind that, why does God want to sow His own rivals on this world.
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  482. And will the Spirit submit him/herself for interview? Including on the topic of Discernment?
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  483. Well, perhaps not, in the grand analysis, then, @Nellie Curry . I suppose John 14:12 MIGHT be the way to know if you are saved or not - but then, could you tell me YOUR experience of it? Or if this remains vanishingly rare, among the converted? Also, who precisely, is the jeopardizer, too?
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  484. We're all tribes, deep down.
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  485. And why does it exist? And how much of nature is Satan permitted to have control over?
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  486. And how are they to become fully fulfilled then? And why do many claim to experience tenderness too?
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  487. How much do we REALLY know about it? Or how it's occupants even became divided and in conflict, at all? Is it still safe to be in?
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  488. And which one achieves spiritual Discernment most accurately? In terms of guidance via the Holy Spirit?
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  489. And when Paul does not? Please tell me, what is the 'natural man' of which he speaks?
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  490. Also, carnal nature, and whether nature is a reliable guide to God's intent or not? James 3:15 aside?
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  491.  @kerchi9250  If sin means to err, then even YHWH can err.
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  492. Nor to hate your mother and father, or stop caring about 'natural men'? And what ARE natural men, anyway? In the 1 Corinthians sense? And can they just choose to be celibate? Ought they to be?
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  493. CAN you please Him? And why did He ever make Himself unhappy? Was Satan SUPPOSED to reach this world?
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  494. And why do REBEL ANGELS inherit ANY foothold upon EARTH at all? And did Eve - KNOW - they existed?
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  495. But letting suicidal rebel angels reach Earth AT ALL is arguably harmful as well, so what was intended...?
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  496. And why did the jeopardy come to be, if I may ask? Why could Satan reach Earth? And did Eve know he existed?
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  497.  @nickyluvsjesus  Yes, and that may sometimes, historically, go quite confusingly, wrong, in some cases?
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  498. And what of Corinthians 2:14 and Romans 1:20? Also, how much of nature is Satan permitted to control?
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  499. Odd that potential non consensual marriages were not a sin, though, @Tiffon Dejonge - in Numbers 31? Confuses many.
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  500. From which source?
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  501. And how do people tell?
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  502. Talking of lust, can we just establish that the marriages alluded to in Numbers 31:17 were in fact consensual?
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  503. Is this any help at all, Zachary? And is the sound doctrine to fully explain if Eve knew of wider stakes?
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  504. Well, Paul of Tarsus did not seem to, in 1 Corinthians 2:14 and 2 Chronicles 2:19, maybe not Thessalonians 2:11 either. But then again, he did not always use the word 'natural' consistently, so I remain confused by his intent.
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  505. Why is that? is that because a delusional suicidally prideful angel could REACH this world at all? And did Eve know he existed?
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  506. Also, what went wrong to lead the blood libel on Jews and the Inquisition? And was ending them a priority?
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  507. Deuteronomy 21:11. Judges 21:13. Exodus 21:2-8. What else, should we speak of?
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  508. But why does the jeopardy exist at all? Why was Satan soweth onto this world? And how can two ignorant humans choose for all humans to come? Particularly if (strange as this is, for Stewards of this world) they had no idea what good or evil was, at time?
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  509. Well, it certainly seems, at the very least, to have several OMISSIONS - including of the backstory...
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  510. And why were angels created flawed? Or lacking for anything? Why let rebel ones reach Earth at all, either?
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  511.  IssyFishyy  I beg to differ. And about all the omissions, also?
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  512.  @cesiagonzalez3969  Hmm, do you support coerced marriage? And if it ever happened again, post Numbers 31:18, would you support it? And if that wasn't describing such marriages, do tell me why.
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  513. Gosh, it's almost like, this narrative about 'free will' is somehow INCOMPLETE looking, and varies depending on the plot...
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  514. So if you participated in Numbers 31:17 or Samuel 15:15, I assume, in contrast, it will all just be a-OK?
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  515.  Spencer Tracy  Still waiting to hear both why it CAN be altered, and why the story has omissions, too? Also: Leviticus 25: …45 You may also purchase them from the foreigners residing among you or their clans living among you who are born in your land. These may become your property. 46You may leave them to your sons after you to inherit as property; you can make them slaves for life. But as for your brothers, the Israelites, no man may rule harshly over his brother.
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  516.  Spencer Tracy  All I'm doing is assessing your qualifications for the answers you keep foisting on others. If you prefer, I can move on to Dennis, perhaps?
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  517.  Spencer Tracy  I'm, ah, asking HOW YOU know these things, why we are NOT told certain things, and why God would ever make Himself UNHAPPY, in effect. Sorry if that was unclear. But where free will, volition and human nature are involved, those are ALL relevant topics.
    1
  518.  @mmi-px8dm  Nor does it say what's voluntarily 'chosen' about sexuality or not, I note.
    1
  519. And how's that going? Did that work well with many medieval Jews, too? What, oh, what, did go so wrong, @RayApp 7 ?
    1
  520. I guess so, but so much was laid in the OLD testament, and assumed to be God's DIRECT PREFERENCE - and not always made clear if it was an accommodation to flawed humanity or not. Plus, there are lines like 'not one jot or tittle will pass from the law', and Paul referencing older ones, but suspending others.
    1
  521. It doesn't seem to WORK as a whole, anymore...
    1
  522.  @lukekul297  So did Jehu give in to sin, or resist sin, in 2 Kings 10? And the previous chapter, in 1 Kings 14, would you have obeyed, or not? And I assume it's a sin to be wrathful and proudful, and jealous? Except in very specific, cosmic circumstances? Also, faith does not always equal reality, for most. Although I hear that John 14:12, is meant to be, something of an exception? Whether now in widespread abeyance, or not. Also, some used to say being black was the choice of Ham's son!
    1
  523. Though was giving in, to temptation, also a choice, in 2 Samuel 24:1? Wholly. @lukekul297 
    1
  524. Odd that we saw so LITTLE of peacemakers in first half of bible, though...?
    1
  525. Despite all those categories Paul and Timothy wanted to add on...?
    1
  526. But why does the jeopardy exist? Why could Satan REACH Earth, and did Eve know that he existed? And why did a blood libel on Jews ever come to exist in medieval Christendom?
    1
  527. Sorry, that does not seem to answer why Satan could reach Earth at all? And what IS that purpose? And how many humans are to survive it?
    1
  528. Okay. Is, there, ah, context for why disloyal angels would be allowed to reach Earth at all though? Or ever feel they lacked for anything, to rebel?
    1
  529. Initial context of the heavenly civil war, and how inherited curses work? I think?
    1
  530. Hah, and they were not the only ruddy ones. Tell it to Torquemada too, @Julio Palacios , who KEPT his status, and authority, it seemed. No matter how errant, he, ah, got.
    1
  531. There's many that claim to have had experiences of senses of a Presence that do 'prove' to them that he is real. But they draw pretty larger leaps when claiming whether this means nature itself also demonstrates straightforward proof. Especially when Paul and James both treat nature selectively.
    1
  532. Why could Satan reach Earth? And why was heaven ever unstable?
    1
  533. And He was fine with fallen angels having access to Earth?
    1
  534. And then might start to raise concerns that, in the old testament at least, what is being described might be closer to POSSESSIVE love...
    1
  535. Mark O'shiro did not. And he tried really hard.
    1
  536. And did he get much help? And answer? When driven by a harsh mother, and when he pleaded to stop being gay?
    1
  537. And what does Paul M, Young say?
    1
  538. Author. You may want to look him up. And Lorna Byrne?
    1
  539. Or of in Numbers 31:17, where it did not LOOK consensual, to me...
    1
  540. And does Paul making sweeping statements about whole swathes of people (or rather, that could be USED sweepingly by others later) count?
    1
  541. Then do a better job, @Bethany Lynn ? And what is a 'natural man' per 1 Corinthians 2:14, and do they get EQUAL free will to... choose? Or comprehend? Or accept?
    1
  542.  @bethanylynn266  But Satan COULD revisit Him and discuss Job, later on? And he KEPT various angelic powers and had ACCESS to this world at all - why, again?
    1
  543.  @bethanylynn266  Also, mixing fabrics is a crime, but bequeathing foreigners for life to Hebrews, was not?
    1
  544.  @bethanylynn266  Okay, just that deeds tend to count more than words, by now? And why was Satan owed anything?
    1
  545. It also says slaves can be bequeathed to relatives though?
    1
  546. And why could Satan pose as a being of light? Or any other rebel, exiled angel? Because of free will?
    1
  547. And what of things it avoids discussing?
    1
  548. Ah, could you possibly clear some things, up, then?
    1
  549. Hate that pile of tripe Samuel chapter 15...
    1
  550. Ahmm
    1
  551. Mainly just based on a fear of extramarital sex and possible threat to the family, perhaps. Also, to that of reproduction to keep up the tribe, but that is a somewhat lesser concern in an age of 7 billion humans.
    1
  552. Sorry, any thoughts on Numbers 5:11 though? And did Eve know Satan existed? Or of the stakes to more than her and Adam...?
    1
  553. Including about Brokenness? Deceiving angels? Why they are even on this world?
    1
  554.  @justiceforjiminsmissingjam4602  Well, what is it's ultimate purpose? And when CAN you 'lean on your own understanding'? And is it worrying one can be asked to 'hate' parents, even figuratively, over an often murky figure?
    1
  555. @Nathan Desta Then what was the purpose of owing Satan any access to Eden, or to Earth? With the Fall radically ALTERING all human nature and free will, before most of us had any say? And how much wisdom is in, say, Leviticus 25, relative to the Sermon on the Mount?
    1
  556. And shunning the 'natural man' plus warping Luke 14:26 always made nice excuses.
    1
  557. Sin also BEGAN in heaven. This requires expansion on both heaven, it's stability, and it's politics. It would be less confusing than wading through Numbers 11 again.
    1
  558. Ah, the old 'show favouritism to the younger son' chestnut?
    1
  559. Well, compare with what happened to the Jews after Rome came to power? And in, er, medieval Europe?
    1
  560. But why want any too? And why send Satan to this world?
    1
  561. And what of omissions, in the text?
    1
  562. And how would he feel about what is happening in Brunei?
    1
  563. Well put.
    1
  564. Leaving aside if it is POSSESSIVE love, I guess, plus Numbers, Joshua, Deuteronomy...
    1
  565. And do you make raped women marry their rapists, Alex?
    1
  566. So, are you one? Is so hard to tell?
    1
  567. Ok, so, could you clarify a few... small.... points? (Small hint: 'because of free will' may not be fully what I need for this...)
    1
  568. Very well. The reason any angels lacked knowledge that Satan's plan or revolt was patently impossible was...? The reason any could reach THIS world, at all, was...? Eve had ANY knowledge of those events....? And did Eve know of stakes to ANYONE other than her and Adam ALONE, before she met the serpent...?
    1
  569. And not knowing good or evil, yet, how would she view that? Or wonder who sent the snake? Also, what do you mean didn't tell anyone? Wouldn't God tell them? Or they be born knowing it? Not knowing the highest being/elohim is the highest being seems a bit odd.
    1
  570. No, it BEGAN in heaven first, did it not? With one third of angels following a suicidal revolt plan?
    1
  571. It says many things. It says women can be taken prison to become helpmates, and raped women sometimes must marry the rapist. It says odd things in Exodus 21:20 too. Perhaps if it defined things clearer as to WHY, in those cases...
    1
  572.  @jessicalee989  Having first separated us from Him in the first place, you mean? Over what two ignorant people did? Who did not seem aware of wider stakes to more than their own two lives, also?
    1
  573. Except when Satan can revisit God, in heaven, potentially, in Job's lifetime? Also, is there ANY time the words 'buy' 'people' 'from neighbouring countries' and 'bequeath to your relatives' can ever be safely placed in proximity to each other? Given later, say, Medieval confusion?
    1
  574. Even when parts don't fit together? And how do some churches end up becoming 'Reformed and Renewed', often splitting off?
    1
  575. Is it ever due to omissions in the book?
    1
  576. And how does one tell which ones are, or are not? Also, would a real one be able to clarify Satan's freedom of movement, between his Fall, and the Book of Job? And why he kept various powers?
    1
  577. By default, often the combination of Jesus and his presumed Father.
    1
  578. Fair enough. I'm agnostic, and don't even automatically disbelieve claims. But TRUSTING all of them, after all the contradictions and conflicts and mistakes, is another matter. Helped, maybe, if there were fewer contextual omissions, in the bible?
    1
  579. So do we mean reciprocal love, or POSSESSIVE love? And why does the Old Testament make it tricky at times to distinguish?
    1
  580.  @ijustfarted9605  If you like, yes. What did He decide about medieval Spanish Jews, if I may also be so bold, as to enquire?
    1
  581. When? In life, or post death?.
    1
  582. Supposedly they send themselves, through wanting to be separate from him. Can't imagine what verses may have brought that reaction about.... ( :
    1
  583. I think it was more the idea of which desires 'feel' normal, at the time? Or natural, rather?
    1
  584. Prone to it, anyway.
    1
  585. @Sarah Ali - ah, prove it, please? Which churches do it right, and best? And that INCLUDES during the blood libel on Jews, the Inquisition, and any confusion on Leviticus 25:46 and the Curse of Ham? As relates particularly to Africans? Also, what IS a 'natural man' ala 1 Corinthians 2:14, and were they born so by default? Perhaps, spiritually impaired? And why is 'natural' a pejorative word, in that sense?
    1
  586. Then on the strength of that relationship, He will replace it altogether before long, yes, @Ammiiirrriii loves ?
    1
  587. What's a true Christian? There are dozens of variations, at least...
    1
  588. So why does glory look like schadenfreude in Numbers 11, Samuel 15 and Joshua?
    1
  589. Doubt continues to exist as to whether Paul referred to non-consensual acts on the underage, in his, ah, 'categories' in Corinthians and Romans...
    1
  590. Isn't it more about tenderness, and CONSENT? That maybe someone did not realise it could ever be consensual and caring, at the time? And what does Deuteronomy and Numbers 31 say about consent?
    1
  591. But disguised rebel angels COULD hide selves...?
    1
  592. Well, Corinthians 2 and James 3:15 seem to COMPLICATE it, at any rate...
    1
  593. Still avoiding som topics?
    1
  594. Whether a mature, reciprocating person who knows their own heart and mind, you mean? Which raises questions of strong delusion, from theists, and possession, and other weirder concepts, presumably?
    1
  595. The scripture that struggles to define free will at all, you mean?
    1
  596. Yes, and many did not make it past 1572 alive, without massacres, inquisitions, etc.
    1
  597. So where does Corinthians 2, and Romans 1, and Exodus 21, fit into the tapestry, though?
    1
  598. I have quite THE OPPOSITE viewpoint, actually. I take more issue with the BOOK, on those points. Including the ambiguity of how Paul uses 'natural' in many of his writings, and what he uses it to mean in differing contexts.
    1
  599. But we still need to discuss Numbers 31:17, too, to be fair?
    1
  600.  @beans6765  One in a long line, apparently, including Torquemada who... kept high office for years? As did Pope Gregory XIII...? How curious.
    1
  601. And so too is this: 'your slaves are to come from the nations around you - you may, buy, sell, and bequeath them to your relatives; they are yours - for life'. Leviticus 25:46. Also, see Exodus 21:2-7. And Deuteronomy 21:11... @maxsunshine 
    1
  602. They forgave many things in Moses's time...
    1
  603. @Chizzle Bizzle11 - theoretically, anyway. And why love or owe Satan more than yet to be born people? Who lose awareness of being in the Test?
    1
  604. Yes, it would seem there is much self-examination for some to do? But I don't entirely blame them. A mixed up message can contribute.
    1
  605. Where do Pauls' categories fit in though? On the natural man, or the carnal mind?
    1
  606. And your standard for comparison is...? Presumably not Torquemada, obviously. What of Augustine, Luther, Calvin, or Aquinas?
    1
  607. And what of consent, in Numbers 31:17?
    1
  608. Well, he avoided discussing some things, but did also say 'not one jot or tittle will pass from the law', did he not?
    1
  609. As long as we NEVER have to know Exodus 21:20, Numbers 31:14 or Samuel 15:15 again, though? Or any blood libels on Jews, somehow cropping, er, up?
    1
  610. How does a Jew choose to believe, though? Per their upbringing?
    1
  611. So, who failed to protect the translations?
    1
  612. Beyond Luke 14:26, what did He precisely stand for? And why must God sacrifice himself to Himself, to appease himself, for a mistake He KNEW Adam and Eve would fail, all because Satan raised the idea humans might not all be loyal, and this AFTER Satan had proven disloyal, and indeed, perhaps insane?
    1
  613.  @jkirannma  Yeah, I do not recall any more than TWO HUMANS ever actually getting a full, and CONSCIOUS choice on the matter, however? And was there something about God suddenly worrying humans would not be loyal to Him without a choice? So the first thing the snake or Satan can do is IRREVOCABLY confuse that choice, for all afterward, who could no longer SEE God, or know which one was the real one? Or see the DISGUISED rebel angels among them, who could could pose, thereafter, as 'beings of light'? And how does this work for the 'natural man' of 1 Corinthians 2:14, too? Do they have diminished spiritual sense for such things - from BIRTH? And did Paul ACTUALLY mean to use the term 'UNSPIRITUAL man', instead, also? If so, why WAS that word not used?
    1
  614. People have SUGGESTED elsewhere that the only reason the snake, or maybe Satan, was IN EDEN at all, was to 'give humans a CHOICE' - albeit it often by a very STRAINED definition of what constitutes a conscious choice. Also, though many imply that refers to a choice between good and evil, NOWHERE is it said to be a choice between COMPETING ideas of good, or of God - who, let's remember, had given up any visible, direct and incontrovertible presence, in that world, thereafter.
    1
  615. And SO FEW have EVER tried to explain how TWO ignorant humans with no idea of good or evil, yet, can make a MEANINGFUL choice, on such things - let alone for people not even born, at that time?
    1
  616. I worry more about Leviticus 25, and Numbers 11, myself...
    1
  617. Will it fix omissions in the book?
    1
  618.  @studentofthesaviors.o.s  higher than the age of Achan's children, when stones, thudded, into them? I really couldn't say. What of consent age, for POWs, from Canaan - virginal ones, also.
    1
  619.  Ebon Knight  It does not clearly condone them, however. Some argument can maybe be made for the Curse of Ham, but Leviticus 25:46 is pretty clear cut.
    1
  620.  Ebon Knight  Normal, how? Precisely? Including bequeathing their own children to further servitude? What was the point of that? And worse still, the after affects lingered, complete with many apologist priests, into the 19th century.
    1
  621.  Ebon Knight  Well, I had not formed that impression, early. Sorry.
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  622.  Ebon Knight  (earlier)
    1
  623. So what are the key principles? And which is the central principle of Christianity? Love your neighbour as your self? You can never perfectly follow the Law of God, so allow Jesus to take burden? That humans are inherently Fallen/Broken, and this explains some things about nature, but not others?
    1
  624.  @karencaniseeyourmanager6313  I await to see if you can, I guess? And why Torquemada had the right and position to judge anyone.
    1
  625. So why is the Bible fine with what it describes in Leviticus 25:46? Or in Numbers 5:25?
    1
  626. Which God is to be worshipped? The God of the Beautitiudes, or of Numbers 31:17, and Leviticus 25:46?
    1
  627. Work on it then. And why could fallen angels reach Earth...
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  628. Supposedly rooted in both claiming to experience equal levels of passionate attraction?
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  629. Though I suppose, the accompanying issue is where both the feelings come from, and how 'normative' or not, either are. Does this suggest some innate wrongness with some people, or impairment, etc? Unclear.
    1
  630. Sorry, when was a CURE first even offered to gay people? And before that, were all just put to death? And why was Satan owed anything?
    1
  631. Also, what is this 1 Corinthians 2:14 business, and how much of nature can be trusted? how much of it can Satan influence, or control, also?
    1
  632. And if say, they can accept Sermon on Mount, but not, say, Samuel 15:15? Or story of Balaam? Or Numbers 31:17? Also, what of other rligions, with similar concepts? And why was Satan owed any access to this world, at all?e And did Adam and Eve know that more was at stake than their two lives alone?
    1
  633. And if it means, without spirit, why not just say, without spirit? Why put nature into it? I thought Spirit GUIDED nature? Or did Satan partially compromise it? This is also Satan who got back into heaven, in book of Job, yes? Whilst impure?
    1
  634. Then why could Satan ever re-visit heaven, to discuss Job, in God's presence, @Brittney Webb ? And why could popes, bishops and theologians sometimes sin more easily, and with far wider damage, than laypeople.
    1
  635. It can be hard to single out a properly consistent view, especially with Corinthians 2:14, Romans 1:20 and the curse of Ham in the mix...
    1
  636. I had noticed. It makes finding out from you all exactly how and WHY humans, souls in particular, are mean't to be allegedly in jeopardy, a tricky business.
    1
  637. Which version of?
    1
  638.  @fish_chips5587  Then who prompted David to number Israel, in both 1 Chronicles 21 and 2 Samuel 24? Also, how do you interpret 1 Kings 20, and what was it trying to say? And what lastly, is best edit, of Leviticus 25.
    1
  639. And did Eve weaken that will? And where do disguised demons posing as beings of light, and inherited curses. fit in?
    1
  640. Yes, and God could fix it whenever He wanted to? And answer why Satan could reach this world...
    1
  641. Thanks. Does not mean I would let a body that willingly PERMITTED conversion therapy to be introduced should go unmolested though...
    1
  642. Or the Dead Sea Scrolls, even?
    1
  643. Control? Hmm, so why did one third of the angels have a problem with this? Or ever come to a delusional view they could overthrow him?
    1
  644. Speak for yourselves, @Austin Liversgowdy . Leviticus 25:46 was hardly normal. Or Samuel 15:15... And how do any angels become ignorant, anyway...
    1
  645. Yes, I did read the Bible. Did you read 2 Samuel 12:15? @גקדןרק 
    1
  646. Did they not fulfil John 14:12, then? I assume, that you did... @bohlaleleleka2181 
    1
  647. So - what next? And why did, say, Mark O'Shiro get NO ANSWER when he pleaded to not be gay? Also, what is a 'natural man' anyway, per Corinthians?
    1
  648. It does to Tan Tan, but he deleted his responses.
    1
  649. Unless it involves capturing women, forcing them to marry, cursing kids, slaying kids, destroying whole towns, drowning people, bequeathable slavery, and so on... That is also, presumably, true, Michelle Schubert .
    1
  650. Well, they did seem to have an issue seeing if people NOT like them could ever move beyond lust, so it may be a cognitive bias? Back then?
    1
  651. Did Leviticus 25:46 teach that? or Samuel 15:15? Or Corinthians 2:14?
    1
  652. I am merely probing their claims...
    1
  653. I cannot. Happy? Now, why did Satan KEEP ANY POWERS post exile, and be permitted any access to Earth? And what SHOULD I do with Leviticus 25:46?
    1
  654. Maybe you could complete some major OMISSIONS in the Bible, for some people, @Sydelle Fernandes ? Also, your view on coerced marriage, if you would discuss it? And sin means 'to MISS the mark' - does it mean to do so consciously?
    1
  655. Why does it exist? And how of nature is Satan permitted to control?
    1
  656. Why do Jews exist? Who you can't always convert? Why do disguised fallen angels exist, among tribes with confused languages? Why did the blood libel on Jews exist for so long, in Christian Europe? Relatively unopposed, I mean?
    1
  657. Why does Numbers and Samuel and Deuteronomy scare off so many people? Was it useful to evangelists?
    1
  658. Where does Numbers 31, 11, Samuel 15, and Corinthians 2:14 fit into that though?
    1
  659. So why did it happen? And why can Satan reach Earth? Also, would people in Numbers 11:19, and 31:17, and Samuel 15:15, agree with your claim? Or in Leviticus 25:46?
    1
  660.  @eeeeee7389  It's a wildly varying club, and has been since like, 400 AD, etc.
    1
  661. Curbs of Ham and his kids notwithstanding?
    1
  662. And how much choice did captives in Numbers 31:17 have?
    1
  663. So perhaps some of it should be less vague? The book still has, er, omissions, too?
    1
  664. The word is missing some key details. I await rectification of omissions.
    1
  665. And why does it exist at all? Or sin in heaven? As it existed FIRST in heaven?
    1
  666.  @tamarac1901  Especially as jeopardization befell all humanity, because Eve barely understood many things, to begin with? And when even the wording of Joshua 7:24, or 2 Corinthians 2:4, can vary between translations, then this can, further, muddy things. Also, of course, there's a lot of 'begets' to skip past! A humongous amount.
    1
  667. Tamarac: now describe, what does lead to jeopardization, thanks. By default. And then describe what leads to de-jeopardization? Sorry... salvation. Also, was Satan designed, with suicidal, delusional, pride? @tamarac1901 
    1
  668. So, presumably, if you do read it every day, then I assume you can quote and codify, the mercy spectrum... of when and how Jehovah, granted mercy? In both testaments, also... @brinceleste8985 
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  669. Also, do you? @dbabyliv 
    1
  670. Yes, many do concur, generally: 2 Samuel 24, is heavily, shite. As is, Leviticus 25, overall. Facts...  @organicjuce261 
    1
  671. And then you potentially, start saying 2 Samuel 24, is prudent, and sane. And whilst, that may not be a sin... it's not entirely, pretty, either. @zjohn662 
    1
  672. May I ask what some of the most important parts, are, then? Also, would you be, at all comfortable, living under Leviticus 25(:46) for, even one month? As well, as Exodus 21:5-20. @adrianangii 
    1
  673. Well, that's going to be useful, for making laws, isn't it? Or interpreting, Matthew 27:25, etc... @Bella.Green27 
    1
  674. I assume so. Not sure why, then, sizable schisms, or a blood libel, and a slave trade... and other uncertainties, were not answered... Very promptly, then? Historically. @lovemyjesus369 
    1
  675. Yes, but does doing so pull many closer, or does it push quite a few away, also? In certain, context... of also, certain parts. @AbyaaJones 
    1
  676. And with Numbers 31:17 in the mix with this...?
    1
  677. Nor did I find it in Numbers 31:17, or Numbers 11:19, or Samuel 15:15...? Possessive, possibly?
    1
  678. It pops up in Corinthians 2:14, or somewhere close. Still, does this also cover pederasty, and dominance relationships between partners? Also, how is CONSENT handled, in Numbers 31:17?
    1
  679. SO why was heaven itself imperfect? And why could Satan REACH Earth?
    1
  680. And why can he interact with Earth, or at least, Edin, at all? And why would ANY other angel want to follow him? Or feel they lacked anything in heaven at all? Including clear purpose, fulfilment, and knowledge of God?
    1
  681. Or she may have meant more that the FEELINGS can both feel 'right' at the time, rather, setting aside ethics?
    1
  682.  @GgGg-mn2rf  Yes, but one is drawn towards children, and the other is not. So that is when it can get confusing.
    1
  683. Forgotten forever? What of relatives? Are their minds erased? And why was heaven ever unstable? Also, how do Jews 'choose', with their upbringing? Or any memory of past persecution, unintended or otherwise, from within Christendom?
    1
  684. Saved where? Why could TWO people choose for a whole species to be in jeopardy? And why was heaven ever unstable? Why is it stable now?
    1
  685. Eternally? And why could demons set foot upon Earth? Also, did Eve and Adam KNOW that they could pass control of the world to a fallen angel?
    1
  686. Can you force women to marry too, or bequeath 'servants' for life, to your relatives? Read, erm, Leviticus, Numbers 31...?
    1
  687.  @chill6445  Well, did it happen, or not? And is it Christian, or not? And is any stuff cancelled out, or not? ('not one jot or tittle will pass from the law'...)
    1
  688.  @chill6445  Numbers 31:17, and Leviticus 25:46, for the first ones - Matthew 5:18. for the jot and tittle...
    1
  689.  @chill6445  One might wonder why the need to punish comes (and spare ONLY the virginal women) when we don't have much clear view on why Satan was OWED any access to this world to begin with, though...
    1
  690.  @chill6445  Also, which nations? Do we hear of ALL of them? Given Paul had his occasional ignorances of some Greek culture, for instance (Xeno, liars, etc) And when a punishment goes on, say, MULTIPLE generations, like perhaps, with Ham's line...
    1
  691.  @chill6445  (Sigh) how long is this tiresome explication going to be used? TWO people with NO idea of the wider stakes, and no idea of what good, or evil, even were, I think, are going to struggle to make a MEANINGFUL choice, even for themselves - let alone for an entire species, yet to be born. And why is disguised, delusional angels allowed to ply THEIR free will (with I might add, many RETAINED angelic powers, like of disguise) among humans? Why owe them that much? Or care what Satan's opinion was? A nut who thought he could overpower the highest being?
    1
  692.  @chill6445  And if we're talking whole GENERATIONS of Jews who'd not seen Jehovah in decades, and in a period when they were NOT yet monolatrists, well, I can see how SOME of them might begin to waver, anyway. The idea of an impatient, jealous god, also implies one perhaps not fully in control, too...
    1
  693. Then she could answer WHY Satan could reach Earth, presumably?
    1
  694. But if he can be cast out to several places, why would he have any access to Earth?
    1
  695. Okay, so speaking on behalf of the two gay friends I have, what next? And why could Satan reach THIS world, at all?
    1
  696. Also, was Ham's kids, Esau, or pre Flood people, loved any less...?
    1
  697. Given it does have several omissions...
    1
  698. Hmm, almost like someone decided what to include? Born circa 7 BC, wandered in 20s, crucified around 33 AD...
    1
  699. So, for also filling in any potential gaps... on the Fall...?
    1
  700. And do you?
    1
  701. What IS a Christian? How many versions are there? How successful is the evangelising? Are some things too ambiguous?
    1
  702. Who wants to re-read the WHOLE book of Numbers, say? All I can say is, good luck...
    1
  703. Well, when you get to chapters 11, 15, and 31... let me know.
    1
  704.  @Nameless10949  No, you can just make apologetics for infanti-cide, coerced marriages of female prisoners Numbers 31:52 style, and other such events... right?
    1
  705. More or less, I think.
    1
  706. Okay, and what is your experience? Plus, of Corinthians 2:14, Thessalonians 2:11, and James 3:15?
    1
  707. So what is mean't to happen? And was Numbers 31:17 consensual?
    1
  708. Good, but when can God answer to us, including on gross, negligent inaction, to protect say, many European Jews or African slaves, @Carina Valdez ?
    1
  709. I guess so. Any way to help clear up some basic stuff and queries?
    1
  710. Although can you fulfil John 14:12, too, and grow with Christ, however, @calebsharp5768 ? As many are not sure what the growing looks like, or to what point. Did many past, policy makers, leaders, and church leaders... also grow, with Christ? Including, in harrowing, confusing... past times... and schisms, also? Oh, and a slave trade, technically... too.
    1
  711. So, is rape better or worse? And was it less wrong, in Numbers 31:17?
    1
  712. Also, why were any souls put into jeopardy at all? To see what people would choose? Even with 'counterfeit religions' that people often cannot tell apart being involved? And disguised rebel angels?
    1
  713. There speaks the expert...?
    1
  714. Sure, maybe, @charm9392 - and when does it strongly warn against ALL forms of slavery, including BEQUEATHING any for LIFE - and taking captive women into potential forced marriage? Leviticus 25 and Numbers 31, et al?
    1
  715. This includes Leviticus 25:46 and Numbers 31:17 also, right? As well, I think, something about why Satan could reach this world, and if he was mean't to...?
    1
  716. Sorry, is that the ONLY part of the will to be discussed? And what is this 'strong delusion' thing we here can be sent to people?
    1
  717. So was Timothy, so what of it?
    1
  718. So what of the Middianites and Amalekites? And where does strong delusion fit into it? Also, why was there ever a blood libel upon Jews?
    1
  719. Well, it would be nice to contextualise, say, Leviticus 25:46 better...
    1
  720. Can we learn how much awareness of the STAKES Eve had, then, in Eden?
    1
  721. And why can Satan reach Earth, Jamie...
    1
  722. Fairly simple question. Did God - WANT - Satan - to reach Earth? Also - did Eve - and Adam - know - he existed?
    1
  723. Why into Earth, then? What, may I ask, were they OPTIONS to send him? And why did Adam and Eve not know? What knowledge were they SUPPOSED to have, at the time?
    1
  724. No it isn't. It only needs to be broken down into key points. Let's begin with a major one. In terms of free will, is the decision made by TWO people to separate a species from God and 'go their own way' entirely consistent with the nature of free will? Including to those not yet born? Also, did God conceal Himself as a result of the divergent event?
    1
  725. FREE people? I am NOT convinced yet. What is strong delusion/ What IS the 'natural man' in Corinthians? To who 'the ways of God are as utter foolishness'? Somehow I DO NOT think this means the Golden Rule, no?
    1
  726. And I cannot, and will NEVER endorse, in any era, or circumstance, Leviticus 25:46, @sueliz mungai ...
    1
  727.  @suelizmungai8863  Yes, so why was it ever okay?
    1
  728. A fair bit, and at same time, not a lot. Some think it describes pederasty and temple prostitution, among others. Or that the word arsenakoi referred only to some forms of sexual behaviour. If it was not mean't to refer to consensual gay relations, then it obviously did not get spelled out, in later Church eras, though.
    1
  729. And the blood libel on Jews - bit messy that was. And went unopposed for a long time?
    1
  730.  Spencer Tracy  And is some major identity crisis in Christianity, since about 800 AD and onward, partially to blame? Including how we define a neighbour? And what is your interpretation of the word arsenokoitae, translated?
    1
  731.  Ebon Knight  Proof? And is it weirder than suicidal ignorant angels rebelling?
    1
  732. So, assist me in doing so, if you will?
    1
  733. Hahahhahhahahah - only good messages. Good one, @Nehu - why do I think this messed up identity crisis period of this religion, no, grab bag of slightly different religions, is going to run and run for decades, then?
    1
  734. But why are we even in danger? Why could Satan REACH Earth? Why was there a blood libel, a Inquisition and a holocaust on Jews? Extreme? Or continuing African slavery? What about the Nephilim? Did Eve even KNOW she could have children when she made her choice, and that should would affect them - maybe weaken their free will?
    1
  735. So does that mean Jews experience Brokenness (fallenness) in a DIFFERENT way to others exposed to the Spirit? To Christians in general? Is that why they have not been converted so readily?
    1
  736. Just trying to figure out what the CORE Christian messages are mean't to be here, and why they may not successfully communicate themselves, always?
    1
  737. Many deny it, or day it refers to a form of indentured servitude, instead. Would have been nice to give that memo to African slave traders later, IF so.
    1
  738.  @fish_chips5587  And you fulfil John 14:12-14? Yes, or not? And what is the message, of 1 Kings 20, by the way?
    1
  739. It could at VERY LEAST do with a cleanup and a guide to which bits are supposed to be most CENTRAL to it's - at times - meandering message.
    1
  740. I had noticed... I don't blame you, or even them, so much, as the branding has gotten weirder and weirder over the last two centuries...
    1
  741. Sorry, which type of glory are you referring to, specifically? The one in the Beautitudes? Or the one in Numbers 31:17?
    1
  742.  @harrygarris6921  Then why did He stop love medieval Jews, much - from what I can, err, tell? It was love, in theory, to specifically reveal a Sabbath breaker did so with malicious aforethought, in Numbers 15, but it is not neglectful, to not take similar efforts against pogroms, etc? Church, err, led, pogroms...?
    1
  743. Hmm, and why was Satan put on Earth, or granted any access, er, at all?
    1
  744. Which can of course, be sort of pot luck, for many, many others? And why is it only NOW that any talk of 'curing' them is even an option?
    1
  745. What, He loved DAVID's INFANT SON uniquely, too, did He, before cursing him to early death, too, @SINDI ? Or Achan's sons, and daughters, to be uniquely stoned, alongside him? Or assorted kids in Hosea 9:12 and 13:16, possibly, and Numbers 16:27, 1 Samuel 15:3, and Numbers 31? And were medieval European Jews, equally loved, too...? And WHY WAS SATAN owed anything - on this world, and KEEPING powers, post exile - and with Adam knowing, almost nothing, about him, or the stakes, beyond to TWO lives...? So, given this, and 2 Timothy 1:9 and Jude 4 - may I also ask, who is the SPECIFIC 'us' in this? And how many of 'us'?
    1
  746.  @sindijord  WHICH BLOODY GOD first. And you WILL READ 2 Timothy 1:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:11, Jude 4, Matthew 7:18, and Romans 9:11-22 FIRST - please. You will LOOK AT what they say, and CONTEXTUALISE it - and then get back to us. And say if ANY ANGELS were so 'predestinated' or had choices made, FOR them, before they even existed/were born, either. And I am an agnostic, humanist, thanks. Also, what WAS OR WAS NOT meant to happen, to Jews post Matthew 27:25 and 1 Corinthians 10, within Christendom - and was messier parts of that, LESS important, to this God, than the trial of ONE Sabbath breaker, in Numbers 15, that He deigned to show up to in PERSON - and give very, very clear responses, too. Unlike, often, later.
    1
  747.  @sindijord  And how did any angels, become fools, in heaven, if I may ask? And I JUST ASKED if God ever predestines some people, to wrath or salvation. It's not all that difficult, or rude, of a query, is it?
    1
  748.  @sindijord  But did you read the verses I listed? They do not seem to paint the SAME picture you describe. And we are NOT RESPONSIBLE for what Adam and Eve, in partial IGNORANCE, chose, either. And why did YHWH deem the trial of one wood gatherer in Numbers 15:32, to be more important than intervening or clarifying, on much WORSE events, abuses and errors, within past Christendom, or pogroms, Inquisitions, etc, etc... After all that, why should Jews now trust you, at verbal claims, alone...
    1
  749.  @sindijord  Principles? For, murdering, children, at times, you mean? Read much Samuel, Hosea, Numbers, or Joshua 7? And WHY WAS SATAN OWED ANYTHING. And why would He CARE WHAT HE thinks of Job or ANYONE else, after he proved DELUSIONAL, disloyal, and suicidally prideful, and treacherous? And this law of Grace thing has often FAILED BADLY to be described or convinced to many Jews - when Christianity was not ITSELF schisming, fighting each other, abetting feudal wars, slavery, pogroms, or antisemitism... in at least half of it, at a given time. ANd Adam was ALWAYS GOING TO LOSE. He had NOT SUFFICENT knowledge or experience to do ANYTHING else.
    1
  750.  @sindijord  Have you figured, out, then, what these 'principles' are, and why this 'god' DOES NOT obey them, himself, often? And BRAGS about his violence...?
    1
  751. Although can be some confusion regarding the parametres?
    1
  752. Well, a scary one, in the case of some verses. Plus, Enoch varying treated as canonical, earlier Suras/verses etc...
    1
  753. Tell me what you mean, though, by sound doctrine and restitution, and what restitution is made by sabotaging a species before most of them are born or not, or stoning or cursing children, taking women captive to implied forced marriage, or buying, selling and bequeathing some people, for life, @Satavia Smith ? Also, if you witness a ghastly set of pogroms or an inquisition going on, would you do something, about it? Given you are not 'restrained' - yet we must wonder what restrains other, more cosmic beings, say. Who may deign to put money where mouth is, beyond tribal laws?
    1
  754. Proof? Any proof of that? Of equal faculty, equal access, equal trust?
    1
  755. Running from and rejecting WHICH GOD also, @Joseph Martin - and why does God now compete with HIMSELF? Not just other versions of him?
    1
  756. It's very mixed up creed and situation, with, arguably, several omissions. Including how much control, if any, Satan is mean't to have over nature. And what that means for choosing.
    1
  757. And how can Satan get FROM Heaven to here?
    1
  758. How could he try., if it was impossible? And other angels listened to him? And why could he enter Edin at all?
    1
  759. Odd that sin could occur in heaven at all, though? And why could Satan reach this world? I would also like your view on what was normal or not in aftermath or Numbers 31:17, Cover malen?
    1
  760. So why did 1/3 of angels REBEL?
    1
  761. Also, Numbers 31:17, captives.. info.
    1
  762. What do you feel about Luke 14:26? What does it say about what a family is?
    1
  763. Yes, but, well, how do you... KNOW this, for sure, and in futurity, @Hollyee ? And did many historically, in past churches, ever get the CHANCE to do that?
    1
  764.  @HollyBowem  I mean, I guess - how do you, know, that this God loves EVERYONE equally? What of Esau? 'Carnally minded' people, 'reprobates', and whatever else Paul calls people? Gay people, Amalekites, Gideonites, or David's son, in 2 Samuel 15, also? And did many gay people, historically, get a chance, to struggle, come out, and NOT face capital punishment, coercion, etc? Going back, say, five centuries?
    1
  765.  @Nitesam  Well I find STONING CHILDREN an even BIGGER abomination, thanks, or Him OWING SATAN ANYTHING - so why don't YOU GO and read, a bit more, first, thanks. And INACTION is no longer going to be given an easy pass, for one who can see the future - reputedly, that is...
    1
  766.  @Nitesam  Him keeping any powers, reaching this world, DISGUISING himself (pre and post Fall) somehow becoming ''god of this world' (did Adam KNOW he could transfer that to him? Did he, at any point, KNOW this Satan even EXISTED - or of the stakes beyond to his and Eve's life - or good, evil, death, either...) And you go and read Joshua 7:24-26 in your own time, thanks. And vaguer ones like Numbers 16:27 (whole households, swallowed into holes... kids, too?)
    1
  767.  @Nitesam  And who gives a CRAP WHAT Satan says, or a 'jealous', potentially insecure, god? NOBODY EXISTED YET except for TWO PEOPLE who had NO REAL useful knowledge yet, to STEWARD OR protect, a world. So what, was, the point? And NO ANGEL has ever been put through that kind of 'test', or been impaired before birth, as most humans were, either. And that is the main point, isn't it - ADAM DIDN'T KNOW. Well Satan KNEW A WHOLE bunch of things, so why does HE GET A HEAD start, in this way? A delusional, demented, monomaniacal, suicidally prideful traitor? Who gives a crap what he thinks of humans - especially not yet BORN ones, to 'test' them, or not? Especially if all are born spiritually impaired and unable to see which god is real - again, in ways NO ANGEL ever was, before they were 'tested' (if they were indeed, tested at all) And kids often do not KNOW THEY are sinning - and if sinning means, to miss the mark, or fall short, then why did this heaven, fall short, so much, of it's own intended mark - early on...
    1
  768. Okay - forget the jealous god bit. Why does HE CARE what Satan thinks, post revolt? Of humans? Of ANYTHING - let alone Job. Also, was the Babel curse to our ADVANTAGE or disadvantage, and explain Romans 9:11, in full, context, please. And SATAN IS THE DELUSIONAL one - for EVER thinking he could beat God. Unless, things were not quite, as lopsided, as we've been told - yeah?
    1
  769.  @Nitesam  I think it would be wasted on you, maybe? I am asking why this God CARES what Satan thinks, of Job, or Adam, or ANY other human, or to 'test' them, whilst they are IMPAIRED from before birth, by what Eve and Adam 'chose'. It's not, bloody, difficult, to understand. NONE of these angels are so impaired, and even KEEP powers - like of disguise, possession, 'lying signs and wonders' and posing as a 'being of light'. Whilst any innate awareness humans post Adam might have, of WHICH or how many gods are REAL or the genuine article, or not disguised counterfeiters, is TAKEN from them, or sabotaged, due to the rash and impulsive, and potentially quite ignorant, acts - of just TWO people. Well there has NEVER been just two angels, who can do that, to any other angels - or even one third of them. Or have we SKIPPED over, that bit? If Satan can offer no RATIONAL reasons to be trusted any longer, why care if he suddenly implies humans may not 'love God back' without a 'choice'? And that's stretching the definition of 'choice' to breaking point, at times.
    1
  770.  @Nitesam  Pretty sure I've tried multiple times. And He's been known to ignore some people, I am informed. Some who were quite fraught to hear from Him...
    1
  771.  @Nitesam  Have done, didn't - others already let down, or never answered... And you WILL CONTEXTUALISE Romans 8:29 and 9:11-22, and 2 Timothy 1:9, and Jude 4 - PROTO, please. This is no longer, negotiable. Nor is how ANGELS make 'free will choices' compared to POST Fall humans, with inherited curses, or a 'sin nature'. A qualitative comparison, must now, be made...
    1
  772.  @Nitesam  Predestinating people - does it exist...
    1
  773. But don't respect their right to refuse or to consent? Love without respect is not love. See also possessive love too. I'm sure I've read that in a set of old books...
    1
  774. How? How has that progressed, and can you do 'these things and GREATER than I will you do' yet, or not, as Jesus implied, @Angelaa 4u ? Also, why were those unsuited governing Europe or running inquisitions.
    1
  775. And why did angels never receive the Holy Spirit? Well, some of them, I mean? Or feel any sense of dissatisfaction in heaven at all?
    1
  776. Even about why demons could set foot upon Earth?
    1
  777. I believe her point was that both 'felt right' at the time? Besides awareness or unawareness of how children consent or not? (usually we would hope someone did have awareness of that factor)
    1
  778. And surely, God cared a LOT about making sure all KNEW it was defined wrong, so there could not possibly be a tragic misinterpretation, as with Leviticus 25:46, @Aaliyah Nagee-Bailie ...? Except, wait... it turned out that...
    1
  779.  Spencer Tracy  And does it condemn coerced marriages, of the Numbers 31 potential kind, or not?
    1
  780. And Paul certainly went heavily into doing that. But in doing so, does he end up redefining what nature is, as in Corinthians 2:14?
    1
  781. The day retained it's significance due to the changing of the seasons from shorter to longer days, and fit nicely with Roman customs about Sol Invictus too. Jesus' birth year is likely around 7 BC or slightly later, but no clear day has been found, except for somewhere between March and September, thus far.
    1
  782. Who's messiah is he? And why did it not work with Jews though? Also, salvation possibly can't be defined without defining why Jeopardy itself exists - and what it has to do with where fallen angels can and cannot go?
    1
  783. Same for some priests then? Or for Jehovah showing restrain for the sake of averting future confusion on his personality?
    1
  784.  @dee_cx8246  Deeds, tend to outweigh words, or a book with Matthew chapter 5, verse 18 in it.
    1
  785. He doesn't seem to deserve all of it, if Leviticus 25:44 is to be taken literally? And why would He make Himself unhappy? If he knew Adam and Eve were not ready to be tested? Unhappy enough to drown women and children?
    1
  786. Who brand themselves as Christian. YHWH never disenfranchised them (in any legally visible way)
    1
  787.  @pretty_blossom5940  Sounds like creative use of Luke 14:26 may have occurred, too...
    1
  788.  @youcannotspeaktomeanyhow  Don't forget to tell Torquemada the same thing?
    1
  789.  @youcannotspeaktomeanyhow  Infallibility and long term planning of the allegedly flawless kingdom plan.
    1
  790. And can we come to Jehovah? And his unpredictable method? Can we also learn Why demons were permitted to reach Earth?
    1
  791. I can see that, somewhat. Few will touch Numbers 31:17, today, or 5:11. Leviticus 25:46 can also be a puzzler, for some.
    1
  792. Yes, and that's a very good thing. Or maybe a bad thing, if basic communication of the ideas can become this murky. Still, it would not be the firs time...?
    1
  793.  @maupow3739  Well, Jews didn't always get that, did they? And even ANGELS failed it, in heaven, with full awareness of their God? THAT I find suspicious.
    1
  794.  @maupow3739  More 'did not get the idea of substitutionary punishment, ransom' etc. And it clashes with Genesis 4, arguably. Would they ever expect God to be divisible, or use any form of human sacrifice again, either?
    1
  795.  @maupow3739  No, the idea that only the person who sinned can pay for their sin. And how does Discernment of the spirit, consistently, work? And why did this not work for say, Torquemada? That said, I also still await to how any angels could be ignorant, in heaven.
    1
  796.  @maupow3739  Sorry, and what has this got to do with bequeathing people for life, to your relatives? Hard to mince those words. And many did not KNOW that what Torquemada did was not approved or blessed, so was he meant to keep his authority, or not? Also, what bits of nature are or are not works of the devil? Kind of complicates Romans 1:20, if so, yes?
    1
  797.  @maupow3739  He created the concept of rival beliefs and disbeliefs in the first place, and THAT is not wholly a choice or a conscious sin, however. And you can know all you need to know - just ask either God, or the Spirit, today. And they may tell you, or not.
    1
  798.  @maupow3739  Then why is the natural man misled, if nature is all good, then? And what is 'Earthy wisdom' of James 3:15? And He means God, here. By letting Satan keep powers and access Eden, or this world, as it were? Also, Leviticus 25:46... '…45 You may also purchase them from the foreigners residing among you or their clans living among you who are born in your land. These may become your property. 46You may leave them to your sons after you to inherit as property; you can make them slaves for life. But as for your brothers, the Israelites, no man may rule harshly over his brother...'
    1
  799.  @maupow3739  Ah, and this goes back to 'spiritual death', does it? But that just means they are NOT DEAD to all but the 'correct' spirit?
    1
  800.  @maupow3739  also, what is the 'wise fire' of 1 Corinthians 3:13, and can we be sure it is fully SEPARATE from hell?
    1
  801.  @maupow3739  You will actually ASK? Impressive. It's incredible HOW MANY will just see what the BOOK said, instead of that. My thanks.
    1
  802. And what did Numbers 11:19 do?
    1
  803. And nor was a discussion of why Satan could reach Earth, and if Eve knew of the stakes beyond herself and Adam?
    1
  804. Dunno, is there a verse saying you can buy, sell and bequeath to relatives, non Hebrew 'servants' or prisoners of war, and keep them for life - or coerce captive Canaanite women to marry? Or to slay non Hebrew babies, ala 1 Samuel 15, Hosea 9 and Numbers 31 (keeping only virginal women) and that Matthew 5:18 leaves OPEN the idea, of death penalties for other, broadly defined things, @Maheen Munir ? My offhand recollection, I recall - is yes. So yeah, a bit of a dicey issue.
    1
  805. Might want to ask why theologians often seem to want to have it both ways, about what free will is...
    1
  806.  @mignotabraham806  What do you mean worldly? Why did YHWH RELINQUISH His presence in the worldy? because of the impulsive, ignorant acts of TWO Stewards in Eden?
    1
  807.  Anthony A.  Also, was Esau, and Middianites (who were Moses' kin, too) and Medieval Jews, all loved equally?
    1
  808.  @mignotabraham806  But Satan could, post revolt, so how? And why sacrifice a lamb anyway? What does the blood DO?
    1
  809.  @mignotabraham806  but Satan stood before God (POST revolt) and did HE have to do that? And what's IN the blood?
    1
  810.  @mignotabraham806  Yes. How many versions of it have read? Book of Job, too? KJB, NIV, various others? did SATAN need make a sacrifice to revisit God?
    1
  811. Why can Satan REACH Earth, Ana? And did Eve have any idea he existed? Or of the stakes, to other than herself and Adam?
    1
  812. Well, it split in several branches long ago, or so I thought? What action was to be taken in Luther's time, or Darwin's? Were people to work it out alone? Or was use of Discernment confused?
    1
  813. And why can demons reach Earth?
    1
  814.  @anasemgema  Sin did NOT begin FIRST on this world, did it, though? It began in heaven. And it need not have REACHED this world, at all. At least by the vector of a deranged rebel angel with no real right or earned trust, to be here, and by two IGNORANT people with no idea of good, evil, death, or the wider stakes. And it already did get confused - FATALLY confused - across large parts of Europe, in past centuries, and often to ruinous results, including d&mned pogroms. POGROMS, woman.
    1
  815.  @fabianfollowerofchrist5299  Well, I DESPISE 1 Corinthians 2:14, as a shallow dodge, so fair enough.
    1
  816. I don't recall it saying the curse on Ham ever ended either?
    1
  817. There are many variations, I have gathered?
    1
  818. So is the God in the Beautitudes and the sermon on the mount actually mean't to be the SAME God from Numbers 11:19, and Samuel 15:15?
    1
  819. But then women can NEVER teach parts of the bible? Jews are cast to the side, and not protected from the blood Libel? Middianites HELP Moses, but then are fair game to be wiped out? And why can demons reach Earth?
    1
  820. Dunno, ask about 1 Timothy 1:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:11, and Romans 8:29, and Matthew 11:20-24... @Pastel_boba_cat UwU ....?
    1
  821.  @laeliasneed2262  Well, have you read them? You may find it raises a few... paradoxes, about 'free will' and equal 'choice'...
    1
  822.  @laeliasneed2262  But I don't believe you. Read the verses - I do not think it is equally, applied.
    1
  823.  @OverthereLook  YOU reveal what the right path is, may be? With up to FOUR HUNDRED competing forms of Christianity and sects etc, out there? And some were very dangerous, in prior centuries.
    1
  824. Seems about like it was in 1200 AD, to me, including the powerful. Oh, and concerning the poor, well, they couldn't even READ the whole book yet, could they?
    1
  825.  @Realgenelive100  Do you mean in the John 14:12-13 sense, or in some generalized version, that's indistinguishable from Mahavira, or other moral ascetics and spiritual lives? A bit more specificy here, may aid.
    1
  826. Define biblical marriage - in both, testaments. All examples, say. @Floridamanhomesteading 
    1
  827. Your pardon... but who are you responding to? Also - does 2 Samuel 24, and Leviticus 25... Whiff - just, a little... @delaneymallozzi860 
    1
  828. Were those affected by the Nephilim loved? Were they shielded?
    1
  829. Wrong already - and a ton of omissions in it, too, @Kirstyn Kelly . And Numbers 31:17, and Leviticus 25:46 - READ IT. All, of it.
    1
  830. And how did that come to be? Also, may we discuss Numbers 31:17? And sexual consent?
    1
  831. Also, did not sin... begin... in heaven initially?
    1
  832. And why would any angels want to follow him? Or think he could win? Were angels born ignorant?
    1
  833. And why did they NOT know? About evil? And how can they choose for those not yet born? And if the angels went to hell, why could they access this world, at all? And if perfection can ONLY come with removing free will, what was the point of making it? Plus, thoughts on Corinthians 2:14... ('natural' man)...?
    1
  834. Do kids also need to know what became of surviving (female) prisoners, in Numbers 31:17?
    1
  835. I also asked 'were they ignorant' - not 'did they sin'. That comes later.
    1
  836. Leaving aside the flood and flawed angels... for now...?
    1
  837. Does that mean He cared less for humans before the Flood? Or Jews in medieval times?
    1
  838. Why? Why could he not resolve it before? if He KNEW it was going to happen, why let rebel angels reach Earth? Or test Adam when he lacked much knowledge? And how could heaven ever become unstable?
    1
  839. Also, no flood, fire next time? I see. Promises...?
    1
  840. What, from being rendered UNABLE to see God, by a woman who had no knowledge of good and evil?
    1
  841. And is heaven safe now? And stable? Also, how do, say, Jews, choose?
    1
  842. So things in Numbers 5:11 count too, maybe?
    1
  843.  @tacticixn  It seems decidedly non negligible, anyway, in terms of how common it is. Why, ah, pedophilia arises is still unclear, but may be due to chemical imbalance. So maybe that's natural... But an aversion to it is fairly embedded too, typically.
    1
  844. Rather too many loose ends were left, I fear - 1 Corinthians 10 and Matthew 5:18, included, however.
    1
  845. Why did this not work during medieval times though, with the blood libel on Jews, and the Inquisition? What is the quality control, or the responsibility? Free will can be blind, even in denominations.
    1
  846. Or between many, MANY varying interpretations of God, saying slightly different, or fairly different, things to different churches?
    1
  847. @Emma Joseph - Ugh, yes, THAT again - how nice they allow such flexibility in the definitions... All adoptees, or something.
    1
  848.  @misssterling5071  Which is often a matter of mere geography? As well as which sect they are?
    1
  849. So why was Satan allowed to stay in heaven long enough to corrupt one third of the angels? And was there somewhere other than Earth, to which they could be occupied? Also, did Eve have any idea they existed?
    1
  850. And if there was more than small proportion of the population that ended up like that, it might be a major problem to reproduction. But that does not seem to be the case. For the rest, I suggest looking up cortisol and other hormones.
    1
  851.  @fernbiswas9791  And, God was - OKAY with that? When it could lead to wars, deaths, torture, or apologetics for SLAVERY? And if you do know what it SHOULD mean - then what precisely IS a 'natural man', ala 1 Corinthians 2:14, and did they have any choice being - born - as that?
    1
  852. What does Numbers 11:19 and 31:14 say about love though - and, ah, consent?
    1
  853. Which God? The One in the Sermon on the Mount, or the one in Numbers 11 and Samuel 15?
    1
  854. Not all of them. Some are rather more outspoken. Some trot out Paulline views, with ambiguity over who has control of nature...?
    1
  855. I don't blame them for accepting people at all - but perhaps they had to be broad in interpretation, for their own peace of mind? Other priests can be more... dogmatic?
    1
  856. No, it was a bodily resurrection on Earth, that was what I heard. Also, how did heaven ever become unstable?
    1
  857. And these standards are a total replacement for gems like Leviticus 25:46 and Numbers 31:17, I assume?
    1
  858. Did they have end of use dates?
    1
  859. So, where exactly WAS Satan standing, when he was talking with God, about Job's life, and his faith, if I may ask? And was he impure and sinful, at the time?
    1
  860. Was Satan back inside heaven, at the time, or not, @OB-1?
    1
  861. I can see the parallel, yes. That does not yet make it conclusive, though.
    1
  862. Yes, it can tend to shut down discussion too quick. Before, say, the intellectual rigour of Romans 1:20 can be assessed...
    1
  863. And to judge princes and angels?
    1
  864. Which says a few alarming things about how transmission and clear communication are SUPPOSED to work, potentially...
    1
  865. And the bystanders? The Jews, who tried to fit with their religion, not always learning of any dissonant facts? Sikhs?
    1
  866. Do they inherit anything? Or just more strife, persecution and grief? May be water under the bridge to some, but I can't forget that it happened.
    1
  867. And someone made 1/3 of the angels suicidally delusional, so what happened then? And why could they REACH Earth?
    1
  868. Or, ah, get an expanded book?
    1
  869.  @tshegofatsomabena6029  Yes, and will John 14:12-13, be brought back, properly, too? Or so I interpret, anyway. Seems a bit in abeyance, often. And so far, it often looks like religions, plural, too - post schisms.
    1
  870. So - then, they CAN fulfil... John 14:12... then? @CAM8689 
    1
  871. So, were pre Flood people, Esau, ancestors of Middianites, and medieval Jews, ever loved LESS then?
    1
  872.  @snehareddy1333  Yes, like finding atman and brahman nature, and so forth. But then, of course, we run into all the technicalities of 'sexual misconduct' or other potential, enculturations?
    1
  873.  @snehareddy1333  Well, maybe that's God's decision, I guess?
    1
  874. Supposedly all get a last chance to choose, upon the (mass) resurrection. Or at least, some denominations claim that.
    1
  875. Sorry, so what went wrong with Torquemada, or Gregory the XIII - and why did any confusion on Leviticus 25:46, and how to teat Africans - and Matthew 27:25, and how to treat Jews - ever arise, or persist any major length of time? Also, why was Satan owed any access to this world?
    1
  876. So why were ANY souls put in jeopardy? And do DISGUISED rebel angels get MORE free will? Than those yet to be born?
    1
  877. You did not save ALL. You can't always COMMUNICATE with all. What of Jews?
    1
  878. Okay, so what would the Spirit say about schisms? Or what becomes of Jews? Also, what would the Spirit say about how much of nature Satan was or was not permitted any control over?
    1
  879.  @maureenjones6063  Well, what don't change can't learn, and what don't learn can't grow... And how DID any angel become ignorant of God anyway...
    1
  880. No, He'll just let disloyal angels set foot on Earth at all, and allow two fairly ignorant humans to have the SOLE choice of separating humanity from Him? Also, did he love the people pre Flood, less? Or the ancestors of the Amalekites, say?
    1
  881. I did read it. I found omissions... worrying ones. And Leviticus, Numbers, Samuel 15:15...
    1
  882. Who did that, then? How much of those chapters did you read? Including Numbers 11:19? And did Jesus say something about rotten meat, in a parable? Could intersect... And what IS said about why suicidally prideful delusional angels are allowed to reach Earth?
    1
  883. And where does it say that, @Layla - and which sex was involved in marriages, in Numbers 31, if I may ask? Err, specifically, post chapter 31, verse 17.
    1
  884.  @worshipperforchrist8026  Honey, the day I take marital advice from Deuteronomy 21 and Numbers 31, or Exodus 21, is the day that I lost half my brain cells, to hypoxia. Sorry, but I'll be quite frank, there. Tell me you at least, read them?
    1
  885. Yeah, it does, partly? Remember Genesis 4? Used to be you had to atone for your own sins, @Monica VanDeventer ? And that also means Leviticus 25:46 never changed, then?
    1
  886.  @monicavandeventer5429  Proof? And that this applied to non Hebrews equally? And why use the phrase 'for life' then?
    1
  887.  @monicavandeventer5429  You mean - that Paul cannot consistently define what 'natural' means, between that and 1 Corinthians?
    1
  888.  @monicavandeventer5429  And that was the New Testament; the old, in Leviticus 25 says, and I quote: '45 You may also purchase them from the foreigners residing among you or their clans living among you who are born in your land. These may become your property. 46You may leave them to your sons after you to inherit as property; you can make them slaves for life. But as for your brothers, the Israelites, no man may rule harshly over his brother...'
    1
  889.  @monicavandeventer5429  So, CAN Paul properly define what the term 'natural' means, and make it consonant with proof in Romans 1? Of which bits of nature YHWH does or does not claim credit for?
    1
  890.  @monicavandeventer5429  Then what is it? Who controls what bits of nature, and who orchestrated which bits of nature? God, Satan or Eve?
    1
  891.  @monicavandeventer5429  Then, why was heaven out of control, ever? And why was Satan owed anything, afterward?
    1
  892.  @monicavandeventer5429  And why should we consider that parental? And if He could not even govern his own realm that he pervaded with His presence?
    1
  893.  @monicavandeventer5429  I haven't found all of them yet. Nor on why God would TOLERATE confusion over slavery and anti Semitism for 1500 ruddy YEARS, lady. Nor what SHOULD happen to gays in medieval Christendom and beyond, and why a 'cure' is only offered around now. What happened to them before that? And why did this process FAIL to work on a ruddy POPE like Gregory XIII, or on Torquemada?
    1
  894.  @sii1100  Nice, but in practice, NOT how it often worked. They disagree on what is natural or not, who is a neighbour or not, and how much of the old law had 'not one jot or tittle pass' from it or not. And on Paul's views, Timothy, James, etc, etc. And was Torquemada say, a Christian? Or merely believed to be, by many?
    1
  895. I think she more, uh, MEANT to say that the FEELINGS can both seem - ah, right, at the time, to the one experiencing them?
    1
  896. Is it widely agreed on and refined? I see there seem to a number of denominational splits, by this point?
    1
  897. I mostly choose to note the things it DOES NOT say, and go on from there. Not everybody I know has 400 varying denominations and schisms, or has sat by during a blood libel on Jews...
    1
  898. Numbers 31:17 heavily seemed too imply it, yes, among others...
    1
  899. And why was women prbeaching a sin?
    1
  900. Why do Christians seem to end up hating each other so often? And why did the blood libel on Jews go unopposed in Europe for so long?
    1
  901.  @ethanchung63  But killin' off babies, and all but some virginal women, to be kept to marry, can be okay, in comparison? And who is 'predestinated' or not? (and I don't just refer to Numbers 31 here, but Hosea and Zephaniah, arguably, too... and Deuteronomy...) Also, how old were Achan's kids, at time of... fate.
    1
  902. Yes, they often skimp on full details (or logic)
    1
  903. Depends which God (and verses) of course, But otherwise, agreed.
    1
  904. In my experience, many believers can think 6 different things in the same congregation...
    1
  905. There is VERY WIDE variety of kinds of Christian, from global observation...
    1
  906. @BUBBLEGUM SOLDIER Which one is that? Hvel? Sheol? Gehenna?
    1
  907. Sorry, how did sin, division or suicidal pride, ever occur in angels, in heaven, at all? Not least one third of them all?
    1
  908. It can say MANY things. Why has it got gaps in it?
    1
  909. So, er, did He love people BEFORE the Flood less? Some siblings less? And some of the tribes scattered from Babel? How vulnerable to angelic/demonic deceit were they? And what of the Middianites, Amalekites (or their ancestors) and the Jews in medieval times?
    1
  910. Also, if sin in heaven is somehow natural, what is natural in Earth? In both the James 3:15 sense and others? And how much of nature is Satan permitted to control?
    1
  911. Has that been fully without confusion so far? There are so many Christians. Have you heard of the Lady of Fatima miracle?
    1
  912. All this complex and frustrating concept of conditional unconditional love, and whether anyone even CHOOSES to be on this planet...
    1
  913. Shall we move on from slavery, and religion focusing on charity and love, to the OTHER central issue of western religion? Which is sometimes called 'Brokenness'? Related to the 'sin nature'? Now, inner peace, as a basic idea, seems to me, authentic. Being in touch with a higher self. Maybe a higher will. But if the only point of having free will is to use it to surrender to another will, why go to the trouble of giving it too us? And why does it still not end factionalism between Churches? Then comes what I call the Bad News, which is awareness of 'brokenness'. it seems the Bible itself can no LONGER, by itself, clearly define or convince what brokenness is, in an entirely evenhanded and applicable way.
    1
  914. Although Paul certainly seemed to want to add in more, ah, categories of his own - including the 'natural man'...
    1
  915. It's not happening as well as it could now, anyway. Even with Lorna Byrne and Paul M. Young attempting to help. If more women preached, even just little bits of scripture, would it aid the cause? And Numbers 11:19 seemed fairly foul...
    1
  916. And what of those who forcibly marry captive women; or 'bequeathed' for life, some 'servants' to their relatives? Do they enter the kingdom? Does Torquemada, too? Or Gregory XIII?
    1
  917.  @jcaz9864  And why had those events reached maximum level? Had acts of INTERVENTION failed, or not? And what kinds of intervention WERE or were NOT permissible? And did God WANT Catholicism to exist? And for millions, billion plus, even to be BORN into it? Unaware of all that? And for CENTURIES people were not even allowed to read the bible in their own language - Africans (ahem) included. Was THIS too, also what YHWH wanted, or not?
    1
  918.  @jcaz9864  And who warned priests, Kings, and others, that anti Semitism was a BAD thing, and confusion on slavery and curse of Ham nonsense, or sectarian wars? And what was to become of gay people? Why are they ONLY offered a... 'cure', quite recently?
    1
  919.  @jcaz9864  What, as the same book? I got the impression it changed, a fair bit... remember it saying YHWH was the Highest? Highest of what? Like, other gods? And this idea was written out, or downplayed, later on? And what of men who lie with women who did not necessarily consent to the marriage? What details do we get on that, say, in Numbers 31:17? And Paul was often ADDING categories for different kinds of people, regards who even COUNTED as neighbours?
    1
  920.  @jcaz9864  Well, maybe somebody gilded the lily, too much? And what of all the other parts of the Dead Sea Scrolls, that had other revealing differences?
    1
  921.  @jcaz9864  Hey, it already happened. Don't ask me. If we want to get Plaintext versions, a direct approach is needed... or maybe the Elohim just DON'T like some things coming up? We don't do ANY of that suppression stuff around here, though.
    1
  922.  @jcaz9864  What do you define as 'guarding' one's world, anyway? Didn't Satan get control of an unspecified certain amount of it? Via two people, NOT trusted to know either what good or evil were, or the wider stakes? All whilst Satan DID keep various powers?
    1
  923.  @jcaz9864  Why that's, then? And look up what Elohim, in Hebrew original grammar, MEAN'T, please. Seems like SOME backstory doesn't get to be widely discussed. Including why Satan was even OWED anything, after betrayal... only, in the Book of Job, he asks... permission? He gives... opinions? That are VALUED? Are we SURE he's ALWAYS the same character, here? Written the same way both PRE and POST Babylonian captivity?
    1
  924. Okay, fair enough. Maybe it would be easier if book had less gaps in it?
    1
  925. Ok. Just tell me also, why Satan can reach this world at all, please... and if he was mean't to?
    1
  926. Okay. And any thoughts on Corinthians 2:14 and other ambiguities?
    1
  927. @faith white - or maybe they are told a VERSION of it based on how the Book is PRESENTED to them? And what if parts seem to cancel each other out?
    1
  928. Proprietary copywrite, yes.
    1
  929. Why can Satan reach Earth, Rax?
    1
  930. So, how do you forge permanent peace between all wings of Islam, today?
    1
  931. From what jeopardy? And why could demons reach Earth?
    1
  932. And did He know 1/3 of angels were dissatisfied?
    1
  933. What, currently, are the right hands, may I ask? For clarification...?
    1
  934. I think they point she MAY have been trying to make was that pedophiles feel an uncontrollable attraction, and that gays (to her mind) might experience a similar one, if more consensual?
    1
  935. And why did he hate that person? And when the snakes attacked Hebrews on the road, was that a curse, or not?
    1
  936. Also, did Adam and Eve KNOW that more than the two of them were at stake, before they met the serpent?
    1
  937. And how many have found Him, thus far? Also, have there been very varying responses, even in one religion - and does that indicate the search is not fully over? If I am not being too impertinent?
    1
  938. Don't forget Matthew 5:18, and all. How many historical gay lives did THAT cost, Mike, and doggita?
    1
  939. Or, perhaps, in Numbers 31:17...
    1
  940. Sorry, can we discuss how much Numbers 31:17, Samuel 15:15 and Leviticus 25:44 DOES glorify God? As well as Deuteronomy 21:10?
    1
  941. Carter? Please?
    1
  942. Too late. Does God take responsibility over what people say about Him? Or what they do NOT say - like why demons can reach Earth at all?
    1
  943. Which God? The one in the Beautitudes and the sermon on the mount, or the one in Samuel 15, Deuteronomy 20:10, or Numbers 11:19?
    1
  944. What's his PERSONALITY? His level of patience? Jealousy? Does he display reciprocal love or possessive love? Does he make himself unhappy, or know that people will make him so? Does he clarify why demons were permitted to reach Earth?
    1
  945. Why do they exist? And why could demons set foot upon Earth...?
    1
  946. And what is their ethos, Robin? And what is your view on Corinthians 2:14?
    1
  947. And on that note, why precisely could Satan reach Earth at all, and was Eve aware that he existed...
    1
  948.  @catpers  Like He said to abstain from taking slaves and bequeathing them to relatives, with as much clarity as on not mixing fabrics, or cooking a goat in mother's milk? Oh... wait...
    1
  949.  @catpers  And what was the point of the criminal, negligent, messy and counter productive old law, that had priests running around, making contradictory statements and apologetics, at times, for slavery, up to 1700 AD? And why is Satan OWED anything?
    1
  950.  @catpers  You read ALL of Leviticus 25 and Exodus 21 at any point? Shocks may occur... And no, we CAN'T tell if it was all indentured work. I seriously doubt it was, for many examples.
    1
  951.  @catpers  What explanations? Why use just that translation - use them all. And why should multiple translations exist? That will prevent Christianity ever being unified fully. Children are children, not possessions - they CANNOT be bequeathed. And if they were, something was... off. Like regards the topic of what knowledge Eve DID know to protect a world, adequately?
    1
  952.  @catpers  Who is the book intended FOR? A small, select group, via interpreters, or all of mankind? Children included? Who may read it unsupervised, at a certain age? And do we really need this, when we could instead learn if Eve is literal or figurative, what happened to women in Numbers 31:17, post marriage - and why any angels were created... ignorant, perhaps?
    1
  953.  @catpers  Leviticus 25:46 applies regarding the children of ... servants. Or slaves... and it's best to check all versions of the translation. As much of the Christian world (more than half?) use the KJB, not the NIV.
    1
  954. So did God KNOW that fallen angels were intent on sabotage, if permitted to set foot upon Earth?
    1
  955. And why did the slate exist? Or the cliff souls risk falling off? Why can demons reach Earth?
    1
  956. Ghandi
    1
  957. And what swayed you back, if you do not mind me asking? Also, did you ever find out why God cared about Satan's opinion?
    1
  958. Against WHICH CHRIST - and which medieval Jews WITHIN Christendom, was He FOR or against, or NEGLECTFUL of, of their safety of freedoms, either, @Followers of the Way ? Please, clarify that - first, if you would? And why was Satan OWED anything, here.
    1
  959. WHICH God, though? And why should a Jew trust youm, exactly, Phoenix?
    1
  960.  @thatonechristianchic8275  Yes, be specific, please. Consent is still something many respect, and that must include age of consent. Now she had a small point in comparing the 'urges' and asking what their origin was, or how healthy they were, but to equivocate the two concepts together beyond that is highly reckless.
    1
  961. So please help? And fill in gaps?
    1
  962. Why could Satan reach THIS world? What did Eve know of him? Or stakes to more than her and Adam alone? As Stewards, why would they NOT have knowledge of Good and Evil? Did the Babel curse make it harder of easier for disguised rebel angels to deceive scattered tribes? And if the old law was never going to work, why have it? With stoning, possibly a worse pain than crucifixion?
    1
  963. Why does it not say WHY fallen angels could reach Earth...
    1
  964. Why get into heaven? I though the idea was to be bodily resurrected onto EARTH? And why was heaven ever imperfect anyway?
    1
  965. And for Corinthians 2:14? What is 'natural' in that?
    1
  966. Yes, I am. And whether we can trust nature, too. Plus, thoughts on James 3:15, also...
    1
  967. The ones prepared not to ask why heaven wasn't stable?
    1
  968. And so was keeping Leviticus 25 type slaves... however...? @coeurgourmand 
    1
  969. @Mercy Masih - no, I don't. Can you also tell me why all the children were put to death in Samuel 15:15, and in Numbers 31:17 - and why some virginal women were spared in the latter, and maybe FORCED to marry their invaders?
    1
  970.  @mercymatteenahmasih  Would we all get the same answer? Would all churches interpret it or translate it the same way? And I'm still waiting to here why Satan kept any powers post exile?
    1
  971.  @mercymatteenahmasih  Still waiting to hear why he kept any powers....
    1
  972. Funnily enough, Mike...
    1
  973.  @Nameless10949  yes, I suppose it does! Jeremiah 2:30, badly written Leviticus 25:46, 1 Corinthians 10 and all. And Zephaniah, and Hosea 9:12, et al - and Joshua 7:24 (age of Achan's kids, anyone?) Plus, Romans 1:20 may need more proofreading.
    1
  974.  @NolanAnderson  Tell me how one third of all angels experienced it before they went crazy in heaven - and rebelled. And how are pagans to know the difference between a heaven that has been partially hijacked, post Fall, by a renegade subcreator - and just one that has multiple gods?
    1
  975.  @NolanAnderson  Yes, the one that one third of all angels also couldn't understand/get/grok/comprehend in a realm where they lived under His very nose, and where it was presumably pervaded by Spirit, Knowledge and Presence? Pre Revolt, I mean. Also, how were any Pagans to know what bits of nature got meddled about with pre Fall, and pre a Glass Darkly or Labor pains? What is the difference between a rogue subcreator affecting nature, and it being the work of multiple gods? And we might count Adam and Eve in that rogue subcreator category, potentially, too. They key is that nature, VISIBLE, outward nature, alone - is somehow enough to demonstrate this. Without a backstory. So how?
    1
  976. And I am not sure it exists in Numbers chapter 31...
    1
  977. Consent, sexually, in that verse 31:17...
    1
  978. And the initial purpose of that?
    1
  979. Pardon me, but also, what was Satan owed anything? Inc access to this world?
    1
  980. And why did a blood libel on medieval Jews ever come to be, again?
    1
  981. Did I make myself somewhat unclear?
    1
  982. And is rape a sin, too?
    1
  983. Numbers 31:14, Exodus 21:20, Deuteronomy 21 through to 25:44. About, er, consent?
    1
  984. What would you add?
    1
  985. Like many other things? Like why demons can REACH Earth?
    1
  986. How do you know He doesn't like it, or why? First hand, or via interpreted messages?
    1
  987.  @tyba65  And do any get to ask why Satan kept any powers and was owed any access to this world, or to Eden?
    1
  988.  @tyba65  Agnostic, sorry.
    1
  989.  @tyba65  Okay - I was just wondering if, well, if you DID know, or something.
    1
  990. Still waiting to hear truth of why God would trust Satan more than Adam and Eve, too...
    1
  991. And why does it leave so many omissions?
    1
  992. Also, was Numbers 31:17 totally normal behaviour, then, Andrew?
    1
  993. But what happened to the prisoners?
    1
  994. Also, what fundamentally is a Christian? And how do outsiders work out which is which? As potential recruits, I mean? Were the ones who ran the Magdalene Laundries Christians?
    1
  995. Although sometimes this is not very evident, or Paul makes sweeping definitions of others...
    1
  996. And what are they? And what is the 'natural man' in Corinthians 2:14? I thought nature was supposed to be a reliable indicator of God?
    1
  997. It is interesting to discuss.
    1
  998. But why can demons even set foot upon Earth...?
    1
  999. Could be better, at least...
    1
  1000. The incomplete word? Why was there ever a blood libel on Jews? Why can demons reach Earth at all...
    1
  1001. And can alternative be chaotic?
    1
  1002. They are somewhat mixed up beings...
    1
  1003. Then how many lies precisely got told by Paul, or others? And in WHAT DAY exactly, of eating of the fruit, did Adam or Eve, ah, die, @Tony LovesGod ? Also, had they any idea what death WAS yet, even - nor of the stakes beyond to their two lives alone, that they were suddenly, ah, apparently 'choosing' for, in terms of all humanity?
    1
  1004.  @tonylovesgod5089  what was Adam supposed to know or not, before he 'chose' for an entire species of humans? And when has any angel been offered that role or choice, over other angels, not yet born.
    1
  1005.  @tonylovesgod5089  So He DID WANT it to happen, then? And have you any idea if they could comprehend the commandment, with no sense of morality, yet inside Adam? Or awareness, of death.
    1
  1006.  @tonylovesgod5089  Prove it. Prove you KNOW what they thought, and how. And if you can't glean it from the book, ask the Spirit. And no angel had ever been put in that position. All angels knew who God and Satan were, before they chose their respective loyalties to one or other, nor were either candidates ever hidden.
    1
  1007.  @tonylovesgod5089  And 99.999999 percent of humans chose no such thing at all, and the only pair who DID, hardly knew what they were choosing, or impact on others.
    1
  1008. And what of gaps in it?
    1
  1009. Sorry, why could disloyal angels reach Earth at all? Did Eve know they existed? And what did they ever think they lacked for in heaven, to want to listen to Satan? Was Heaven somehow imperfect, or appeared to be? Did they lack some knowledge?
    1
  1010. Then why are Muslims not all at peace with each other? And why does violence continue in Brunei? Wouldn't a final system not NEED violence to enforce it?
    1
  1011. Can't, dude. Cannot deny the lies and mistakes and neglect coming this way, often, either.
    1
  1012.  @lillycruz3552  But the word father is used, about Him? And that does open up comparisons. And many have made the point that God can do with us as He wants.
    1
  1013.  @lillycruz3552  Why do this, if even angels, in the direct presence of God, could also develop flaws? And why were disloyal ones owed more free than post Fall humans? And to roam this world, to? And what if I do not think it is EVER valid to beat slaves near to death, or bequeath then to relatives, ala Leviticus?
    1
  1014.  @lillycruz3552  Did Medieval Spanish Jews also get an equal chance? Including post Matthew 27:25? And the 'natural men' of 1 Corinthians 2:14? Whatever Paul meant by 'natural' at the time? (a word he seems fluid in use of)
    1
  1015. And why would that occur? And go unprevented? Is this the same application of free will that permits demons to reach Earth?
    1
  1016. Yawn - and then did nothing at key moments when popes and inquisitors f***ed up badly and harmed Jews. Why should Jews trust you, Elaria?
    1
  1017. Barring Corinthians 2:14, Romans 1:20, and others?
    1
  1018. There does seem to be a running theme of the older brother receiving less preference to the younger one...
    1
  1019. YES That makes it UNSTABLE and needing to REALITY check itself...
    1
  1020. Swords eventually get turned into ploughshares. Although industrial retraining for the Angel of Death might also be advisable...
    1
  1021. Yes, keep saying it's all gone according to plan, and that schisms are minor issues...?
    1
  1022. Not really. I vowed I keep asking why demons could reach Earth, and if the blood libel on Jews was INTENTIONAL...
    1
  1023.  Ebon Knight  Yet Christendom could not eliminate sectarian and feudal wars, or slavery, for 1500 years? And often clashed with their own interpretations and ambiguities?
    1
  1024. Except for when he says 'not one jot or tittle will pass from the law'? And Timothy makes new ones, for women?
    1
  1025. So, why can even angels, in a perfect realm, sin, @BCD Movement ?
    1
  1026. And you have to ignore Corinthians and Timothy, a bit.
    1
  1027. Competently, I hope? Including on why any souls were ever put at risk?
    1
  1028. Sorry, you mean, saves from HIMSELF, @Sierra Clark ? And why was any soul put at risk? And why was Satan owed access to Earth?
    1
  1029. And how does it effect you, exactly?
    1
  1030. A common, and bad problem. You'd think YHWH would get involved in it...
    1
  1031. That might, at times, be a good thing though, since people used to use bits to justify slavery, or war? What about the blood libel on Jews? And Samuel 15:15?
    1
  1032. Possible, but since no real effort was made to correct it, what we're stuck with is what has stuck. Humans can't fix all divine oversights...
    1
  1033. You mean there's multiple variations of both, @Brilliantgirl WithGodonherside ? And only insiders can even tell the DIFFERENCE? Seems to me like there's a LOT of variety in each category.
    1
  1034. Though I do await the bit that says if many angels were made ignorant or not, from inception, @Charitie Ruiz ?
    1
  1035. Given Paul seemed to differ on how he defined nature, and whether it was good or bad, depending on context, that can also be confusing...
    1
  1036. True. So why did he feel it okay to define it two separate ways, to make two different arguments?
    1
  1037. And condemning does not mean fully explained either. Including about free will...
    1
  1038. Also, I thought the crucifixion was intentional? And the priests were often only doing what they thought Jah-HAVVAH wanted?
    1
  1039. But God needed it to happen? And they followed some interpretations about heresy?
    1
  1040. And if they only understood it in the abstract? Sans Knowledge? (of fruit) And knowing THEY might die seems different from knowing their CHILDREN and others would die? Also, many Rabbis might view it differently than you.
    1
  1041. We all are His children, or we are none of us, so. Do not split hairs, @Bobie ?
    1
  1042.  @bobe03v.28  I didn't choose to be born in this world. And why did various angels not obey? How did they become ignorant about God? Or suicidally prideful?
    1
  1043.  @bobe03v.28  I believe I've done this several times? And when I ask many, they can't answer, either.
    1
  1044.  @bobe03v.28  What's a sinful lifestyle, and how in heaven, do any angels have a CONCEPT of sin? Or dissatisfaction?
    1
  1045.  @bobe03v.28  I pretty sure I tried that. And various people also give conflicting answers. And why do we have to be involved in what bonkers angels want?
    1
  1046. How did that occur? And was any corrective action taken? Also, did this contribute to a blood libel on Jews, or an Inquisition?
    1
  1047. A bit late now. And what of Paul's categories? Or Timothy's amendments?
    1
  1048. Timothy had a thing about women not preaching. Paul created categories for carnal and reprobate minds - and also 'the natural man' to who the ways of God are 'as foolishness' - per Corinthians 2:14? So who controls nature, and how clearly does it point to God? As Romans 1:20 seems to go out on a limb, about?
    1
  1049. Sounds fresher, somewhat?
    1
  1050. No, you want the 'do all atheists think the same video'. Pretty biblical one there - and a very aggressive, strident, and overly opinionated one, maybe?
    1
  1051.  @justiceforjiminsmissingjam4602  Well, I am agnostic, but I know a fair few. So you could ask, I guess?
    1
  1052. @magicalpotato 12 - so, were Job's kids, Ham's kids, Esau, Middianites (including Mose's in-laws, maybe?) and Medieval era Jews, and pre Flood people, all loved to EQUAL degree, then? And all treated with similar, well, CARE?
    1
  1053.  @michaeljackson2928  So, PROOF of that, please? Not words, DEEDS, action, consistency? They were all put in JEOPARDY or died. Or even got tortured, in some cases - WITHIN Christendom.
    1
  1054.  @michaeljackson2928  Also, what WAS supposed to happen to gay people, in Christendom, for centuries? How many were maybe put to death?
    1
  1055. Why could two humans alter all of human nature, and make people unable to see God? Did they know Satan or fallen angels existed? Did they know who sent the serpent? And did they know they had the power to alter so much?
    1
  1056. They do seem to have piled layers upon layers upon it.
    1
  1057. And was Esau loved too? And pre Flood people? And Ham's kids? And Middianites? And medieval Jews? And leading on from that, why could Satan set foot onto Earth?
    1
  1058. So why were they drowned, stoned, persecuted. or their persecution overlooked? Including in Christendom, later? And why could Satan reach Earth at all?
    1
  1059. Also, did the Babel curse make it harder OR easier for disguised rebel angels to deceive various tribes?
    1
  1060. Whoops! So, how is that going, so far? How often does communication, ah, happen?
    1
  1061. But why could fallen angels set foot upon Earth?
    1
  1062. And I assume some were more harmful to other people, than others, @jay penny ?
    1
  1063.  @shronemitchell8818  So why did so many last so long? Including anti semitic ones, and pro slavery ones? And were many gay people to be stoned, or not?
    1
  1064. And it still will not say why Satan was ow£d anything...?
    1
  1065. Ah, like in Leviticus 25:46, and Numbers 31:17, do you mean?
    1
  1066. And why is that? Why was Eve ever given that power, but not much knowledge of what power she had? And what did Jews need, during the medieval blood libel upon them? And it's er, messy consequences?
    1
  1067. Sorry, this the same book with Numbers 31:17 in it? Fill in gaps, in that, first.
    1
  1068. And then on why Satan was owed anything...
    1
  1069. Well, maybe it was happy they avoided Numbers 31, 11, and Samuel 15 then? Also, has it said WHY disloyal angels could reach Earth, and if Eve had any idea if they existed?
    1
  1070. Yeah, but is it true? And why is the whole thing so mucky/murky.
    1
  1071.  @SamsungS23Ultr  Is it true? The WHOLE thing? Which God, which message, and does He love all? And who 'chooses' to be gay, say? And why was Satan owed anything.
    1
  1072. I thought it was about rape and violating hospitality? Although how this fits with Numbers 31:17 and Deuteronomy 20:10, say, about consent, I am less clear?
    1
  1073. @F1nesse Shot - theoretically, anyway. So, what did Jesus mean by 'not one jot or tittle will pass from the law', then, and how he came not to abolish but fulfill them?
    1
  1074. It could work. But churches often insist on saying the scriptures are the unchanging will of an unchanging God (who nevertheless changed his ways when a bloodline had 'ripened' enough for him to impregnant a young women) and thus dragging along a lot of old bits.
    1
  1075.  @akiras.3595  Odd that this was not kept clear cut for many centuries, though? So did many gay people get stoned to death anyway?
    1
  1076.  @akiras.3595  Yes, but God didn't have to LET them, did He? For centuries? Enough of this universal 'because of free will' exemption, too, maybe? That does not work so well when free will is unevenly distributed (with or without disguised saboteur angels)
    1
  1077.  @akiras.3595  No idea, at this point. Just, if people can talk to Him, we maybe should hear of some answers, by now (I mean, ah, up to date ones...)
    1
  1078. @Christian Weidmann Honors who who decided, you silly goose? NOBODY EXISTED outside of Adam and Eve when THEY decided, and all after that got IMPAIRED knowledge and deciding ability.
    1
  1079.  @akiras.3595  And I'm debating it's hard to debate a book full of gaps.
    1
  1080. Hard to tell, at times. There is much variation?
    1
  1081. And medieval Jews, hardly at s*dding all, maybe, @Stephe Essel ? Less than errant priests or Popes, maybe?
    1
  1082. How? The initial choice was made by TWO largely ignorant humans with no idea of the wider stakes, altering our nature, before most are born, @Leeza Smith ... Also, why DID Satan get to keep various powers post exile?
    1
  1083. Nor should it have major suspicious omissions in it? Or ambiguities and divergences?
    1
  1084.  @victoryisyourportion  Sorry, how do you know which are true? Was Torquemada a true Christian? Or Gregory XIII? And how did any angels BECOME delusional or ignorant or 'lukewarm' or suicidally prideful, and when did any of them get tested like Eve was?
    1
  1085.  @victoryisyourportion  Strikes me lots of it if 'pagan' or something (Amon/Amen - notice similarities?) And not forgetting this God CREATED His own enemies and let them KEEP their powers post exile... so it all seems a LITTLE odd. And if Catholicism bothers Him so much, why not intervene and correct them? Or end all that sickening anti Semitic violence? So butt sex is detestable, but all that and slavery are not...?
    1
  1086.  @victoryisyourportion  And if angels must have free will, over an obviously FUTILE revolt plan, then can they not exercise it on some OTHER world than this one...? An emptier one, maybe?
    1
  1087.  @Phinnt  Yes, and pretty soon, they fall out, no longer HAVE a single consistent truth, and seem unwilling or UNABLE to get their God to PEACEFULLY and openly resolve the differences, anyway. And it's worse still for bystanders, say, like in Africa, sometimes preached dogma to about being made subservient (for a 'time')
    1
  1088. So why did a blood libel on medieval Jews ever come to exist? Or a Spanish Inquisition? And, for all it is a long book, why is Genesis worryingly INCOMPLETE on some MAJOR details of it's backstory? And the stability of heaven?
    1
  1089.  @MrFrog-rc3zx  where was it when angels were designed? Pah. And giving them free will doesn't excuse making them ignorant and gullible too.
    1
  1090. How, when we can't SEE him? Or the DISGUISED rebel angels that were somehow allowed to reach this world? Also, do Jews get an equal choice? Or the scattered tribes at Babel, with confused language? And the ones before the Flood? And did Eve and Adam pass on altered free will? What is the 'natural man' from Corinthians 2:14?
    1
  1091. Also, if heaven IS so majorly unstable that one third of the angels would rebel despite having very full knowledge of God AND his essential omnipotence, then is it actually safe to enter?
    1
  1092. Ah, by letting any spread to this world at all, @nessy vibes?
    1
  1093. So why is a cure now being offered, and why has it taken so long to attempt one?
    1
  1094. This includes many medieval Jews, right? Not that it easily stopped persecutions, in Christendom, though...?
    1
  1095.  @ww.mochii  Well, more significantly, what HAPPENED to assorted gay people between 800 AD and 1700 AD, in Christendom, as a result of Matthew 5:18? Was it all encompassing, or not, and since Jesus never much addressed the topic of them directly, what then, by default, did many senior clergy refer to, if they encountered them? It would be informative to know, for me, at least. I mean, look at how much trouble came out of long term uncertainty about what the 'biblical term' for slavery, was, for one. And see also the word arsenokoitae.
    1
  1096.  @brinceleste8985  And do we care? What happens if they do lie so? Does the world end? Does the species go extinct?
    1
  1097.  @brinceleste8985  But isn't it far, far too late for that? And Romans 1:20 has a pretty large agenda, too, including putting thoughts into imaginary pagan heads. And certainly 1 Corinthians 10 became part of an agenda, after Augustine's time. And then all that pro slavery business, for centuries. And I state my questions exactly as I stated them before - why is it cause for alarm? It's happened, it's still happening, and it hasn't led to utter catastrophe. It went a lot smoother than affairs in say, Magdalene Laundries did, for one. Or with some altar boys.
    1
  1098. And, er, why could demons reach Earth? And have you heard of the, er, blood libel?
    1
  1099. Fair enough. Hard to categorise when there are so many variations, however...
    1
  1100. Sure they can. There is like HUNDREDS of different Chrisitianities, so be one of those.
    1
  1101. So, how will it all reconnect? And thoughts on Jews?
    1
  1102. Although given your comment on non-whites, I am not hopeful.
    1
  1103. And your view on Numbers 31:17?
    1
  1104. Well, it may have started with schisms. And wars, and the Blood libel on Jews?But schisms, ah, may arise if the Book seems incomplete, on, ah, some topics?
    1
  1105. To do what? And saved from who? Why was Satan owed anything? To do with this world?
    1
  1106. Of which? and why could Satan reach this world? Also, your view on Numbers 31:17, and consent? Sexual ?
    1
  1107. So, when was the curse of Ham, and Leviticus 25:46, to be sorted out? Before or after they were used for anti abolitionist arguments? Just for two loose ends? Or for Matthew 25:27?
    1
  1108. And for Numbers 31:17 - you SHOULD read it... then fill in fate of the captives
    1
  1109. Has he asked you where jeopardy to souls came from?
    1
  1110. And how do people know what real ones look like? And if Eve knew more than she and Adam would be affected by fruit?
    1
  1111. And when the logic, say, in Corinthians 2 about what nature is or isn't is a bit blurred?
    1
  1112. And is there a consistent definition of being born again, that outsiders could distinguish?
    1
  1113. Thanks. I do my part. I never claimed to be one that never did wrong, either... Although I can't understand all this evasion of saying heaven was always perfect when things still went wrong there...
    1
  1114. John? Hi?
    1
  1115. Good - but many flipflop on what free will even is. And how TWO people can 'choose' for us, meaningfully.
    1
  1116.  @crazyanimeloveable  Thank you. Yes - which is why I have determined that Leviticus 25:46, Numbers 31:17, and Samuel 15:15, were EVIL. Understood? And inherited curses passed on to people, that impair them, or just even make people THINK they are an inferior, darkened skinned race, are HIGHLY suspect often.
    1
  1117. Although I guess some would argue that both experience 'an uncontrollable attraction', and then ask whether that shows normality of either...
    1
  1118. And when was Numbers 31:17 normalised?
    1
  1119. And did He want Satan to reach THIS world, at all? Or to disguise themselves? And what of James 3:15?
    1
  1120. And will they find any more gaps in it?
    1
  1121. Or that heaven was always stable?
    1
  1122. Hmm, is there some to say why heaven would ever become unstable, too? Or why disloyal angels could reach Earth?
    1
  1123. So WHY COULD THEY USE IT THAT WAY? And what was God's response? Also, was Leviticus 25:46, ah, useful?
    1
  1124.  @mazijade  Go and buy slaves from a nearby nation, and bequeath them for life, then? That's nicely clear, yeah?
    1
  1125. Like working on Sabbath, picking sticks?
    1
  1126. I assume she was making some point about how they both 'felt' normal... (the initial attraction, that is)
    1
  1127.  @leilat2012  Okay, but what is this based on, what did He do AFTER popping off into a cloud, and why did He NOT SEEM to care equally what happened to many Medieval, European Jews, within Christendom - or many Africans, slaves, peasants, gay people, etc, etc... How much of the assorted sects, churches, denominations etc are 'given over to delusion' or to Satan either, etc etc... As many try, to claim.
    1
  1128.  @leilat2012  Err, no - it's LAUGHABLY easy. Just KEEP in TOUCH with senior CHURCH leaders, and tell them, fairly clearly 'I do not like this - phase it out, quickly. No using verses to support it anymore, either'. It's REALLY, really, easy to do. To at least stop any of it being APPROVED or defended, by church leaders.
    1
  1129.  @leilat2012  He violated free will ALL THE TIME in the Old Testament, though - and darn straight, it's been altered. I also await the FULL and UNABRIDGED and UNOMITTING retelling of the Revolt, civil war, and Fall, and Eden, some time - including why Adam had 'choices' that NO angel was ever given, nor could chose FOR people, not yet born - either.
    1
  1130. Or of what is or isn't 'natural' in the world, per religious views.
    1
  1131. Any proof of it, @CyBeRSkYoUt , though? Or just talk, again, and highly questionable, unfinished doctrines and backstories, and odd moments of borderline - well, maybe criminal, inaction?
    1
  1132. I think she may have mean't that both urges 'feel the same'. as she poorly phrases it? Obviously skirting consent a lot, in that simplification...
    1
  1133. There would have to be much STRONGER intervention or a clear party line than there is, for it to be entirely reversed, yes. Given they never embraced, say, Lorna Byrne and her, er, received messages worldwide, or some other candidate, they seem often unable to reach out globally anymore...
    1
  1134. And also, maybe, find out why any angels would suddenly want to rebel? But my condolences anyway, and hope for your future...
    1
  1135. I feel the same way with Paul of tarsus, arguably.
    1
  1136. Did he make angels to have PRIDE in heaven, though?
    1
  1137. Jews too,? And why did many angels FAIL to? In the first place?
    1
  1138. Proof? And not one jot or tittle will pass?
    1
  1139. If you can deliver goods, they may?
    1
  1140. They vary in what they think, but often feel compelled to uphold older views.
    1
  1141. Nearly anything, yes. And I conclude that after pretty long term observation...
    1
  1142. And is this because a traitorous angel was not prevented from reaching one world?
    1
  1143. Okay, but do you have any views on Numbers 5:11, 31:17 and Samuel 15:15?
    1
  1144.  @lia-sl9im  What's obvious? And if it was obvious, why were any angels ignorant or delusional about it, in heaven? And why did the disloyal ones keep any powers or have any access to this world? And did Eve know they existed? Plus, did she know of the wider stakes, pre test? And also, were any angels ever tested, like her?
    1
  1145.  @lia-sl9im  No mate, that's the WHY - not the HOW. One cannot sway one THIRD of the angels if everything was hunky dory there, they had clear knowledge of God, and there was no dissatisfaction or flaws in heaven. Not without them being dangerous ignorance or something was incomplete. And they KNEW WHO GOD was and of God's nature, and this was a being who PERVADED heaven. Not so much like with Eve - who had no idea what good or evil was; who Satan was; may not have understood what death was; and did not seem aware of the wider stakes. And I have read it. Lot of evil in Leviticus 25, for instance.
    1
  1146.  @lia-sl9im  And why would they want to follow him? And EVER think he could win? And what has ANY OF THAT got to do with humans not even BORN yet? When did any angel also ever get tested like Eve was? With her lacking so much wider context?
    1
  1147.  @lia-sl9im  THAT DID NOT WORK did it? How many of them REBELLED in God's actual PRESENCE and followed a delusional being called Satan? So why not test them?
    1
  1148.  @lia-sl9im  Then WHY DID IT HAPPEN? Why did so many rebel? Out of ignorance?
    1
  1149. Yes, and Torquemada did the same, right?
    1
  1150. Why was it there in the first place? And to who is the ransom paid? Was guidance on not wearing mixed fabrics and not eating shellfish God's clear preference? Whereas guidelines for slavery in Deuteronomy and Exodus were allowed to be less His stamp of preference?
    1
  1151. And the Jews were scattered, and subjected to blood libel, because...? the people of Moses' wife were destroyed, because...? Satan can even set foot on this world at all, because...?
    1
  1152. There's just enough wiggle room to get round it, but churches often end up adapting. Or have to get over hurdles to expansion.
    1
  1153. And is heaven safe?
    1
  1154. And He created any angels with suicidal pride and a means of access to Earth?
    1
  1155. Does this clarify many of the problems, any further, to you?
    1
  1156. Hmm, do I bloody care, @SThornton ? Maybe if you promise, to read Hosea 9 and Jude 4, all the way through, first...?
    1
  1157.  @sthornton5654  Makes no difference to me. Hosea 9:12-16, to me, IS WICKED - as is Joshua 7:24, much of Zephaniah, 1 Samuel 15:3, 2 Samuel 15:18, Numbers 16:27 and 31:18... too. Hardly CONSENSUAL, what became of those spared virgins, was it...
    1
  1158. Why was Satan created, though? Or angels prideful?
    1
  1159. Good - but you are a Christian - or rather, a TYPE of Christian - and there are a LOT of differing types.
    1
  1160.  @kaylee2515  Basically, though, how do we KNOW what type of Christian is the right one, and how they'll treat LGBTS, and if they'll be safe around those people?
    1
  1161. Not at all like with Satan, then...?
    1
  1162. Why was heave ever unstable? Why did any angel feel they lacked for anything? And why could the disloyal ones reach Earth at all? Did Adam and Eve have any idea they EXISTED?
    1
  1163. I do not mind, until they begin to try to control others lives and happiness... and this has happened a number of times...
    1
  1164. Where does Numbers 31:14 and Deuteronomy 25 fit in terms of, er, sexual ethics? And, er, consent?
    1
  1165. Ah, the same as some angels were ignorant enough, yet prideful enough, to 'choose' against him?
    1
  1166. Well, Leviticus 25:46 can certainly complicate things...
    1
  1167. Are the rules different for HEBREW 'bond servants' than to those bought... I mean, contracted, er, from other countries...
    1
  1168. It does become fairly relevant if used as arguments against abolition of slavery a few hundred years ago...
    1
  1169. Well, when you actually get to READ Numbers 11, Samuel, Deuteronomy 20, and parts of Corinthians 2, it does get HARDER, yes.
    1
  1170. And how much of the old testament is relevant, and efficient, to that?
    1
  1171. Tell me what a real one is? There are many variations. Why do many now still claim Satan and Eve mated in Edin? And why could fallen angels reach Earth at all?
    1
  1172. Okay, if you will CLARIFY what was consensual or not in Numbers 31:17, regarding the captives taken there, and what became of them? Plus, Leviticus 25:46? And why COULD Satan, a sinful, delusional, treacherous angel, ever get BACK into heaven, to discuss Job's life, exactly?
    1
  1173. ​ Spencer Tracy  And how did sin and ignorance and suicidal pride emerge in heaven, precisely? Also, how does Numbers 31:17 precisely frame sexual consent?
    1
  1174. Dunno. What does it say in Corinthians 2:14, abigail? And of Esau, and Ham's kids?
    1
  1175. I tend to share the confusion, sometimes. Still, if they feel they HAVE had a communion style experience...
    1
  1176.  @Freshprod21  Hmm... have you fulfilled John 14:13, yet, by the way? Also, what does 'and greater than I' - mean, to you?
    1
  1177.  @johnd1916  How do we know which is the right ones, then? Torquemada - he lukewarm? With his pliers, pilinwinks and red hot pokers? or Gregory XIII blessing a massacre?
    1
  1178.  @johnd1916  And why couldn't all angels do that? And how were people to know what Torquemada was doing was wrong?
    1
  1179.  @johnd1916  Why did any angel sin? And what authority was Torquemada ALLOWED to keep or not, and should he have?
    1
  1180. So is this a problem for spreading the message?
    1
  1181. Supposedly, there's enough wiggle room to say all those parts of Law were suspended by Jesus incarnating, and doing away with them. Despite his saying not one jot or tittle would pass from the (core?) Law... and ignoring the issue of what was or was not God's DIRECT PREFERENCE or not, as assumed or implied from the actual writing sources of the time.
    1
  1182. And where does Numbers 31:14 fit on the scale?
    1
  1183. As broad and variable as that is.
    1
  1184. They sure seem to not mind LOOKING like it.
    1
  1185. So what happened with the whole 'not one jot or tittle will pass from the law' and 'I've come not to abolish, but fulfil' parts?
    1
  1186. Does it say WHY fallen angels could set foot upon Earth, and if God wished them to?
    1
  1187. And why did any of this occur? Why would angels suicidally rebel? And why was Satan owed anything? Why was he onto this world?
    1
  1188. Well, someday I hope to learn the reason for this doozy: '…45 You may also purchase them from the foreigners residing among you or their clans living among you who are born in your land. These may become your property. 46You may leave them to your sons after you to inherit as property; you can make them slaves for life. But as for your brothers, the Israelites, no man may rule harshly over his brother....' (Leviticus)
    1
  1189.  @MrsYoung-in9ov  Proof? Proof, proof, any proof? '45 You may also purchase them from the foreigners residing among you or their clans living among you who are born in your land. These may become your property. 46You may leave them to your sons after you to inherit as property; you can make them slaves for life. But as for your brothers, the Israelites, no man may rule harshly over his brother.
    1
  1190. And as for additional backstory, like to who the ransom is paid, or why fallen angels could reach Earth...
    1
  1191. And then Paul goes off on one about 'reprobates' and 'carnal minds', and snobily says all nature clearly shows God, except when it suits argument to say it does not, and blinds people, @Laineyy Babyy ? Sorry, I've heard many such claims before, and find it all rather murky.
    1
  1192. Incomplete bl00dy truth, at that... Show some shame for Jeremiah 2:30 too, Rafa.
    1
  1193. Yes, there does seem to be a bit of trouble about that. And most of them STILL do not say why any angels would rebel, or be allowed to reach Earth...
    1
  1194. So burning next time, huh? Any thoughts on Deuteronomy 20:10?
    1
  1195. And where does strong delusion, or possession, fit in? As well as 'counterfeit religions' people may be born into?
    1
  1196. So, could we fill in, er, some small but perhaps KEY, omissions?
    1
  1197. And the apparent gaps, in it?
    1
  1198. So, why did God want it publicised?
    1
  1199.  @mikeybrissy1613  What of when those writings don't have a lot to say?
    1
  1200. So, is CONSENT in Numbers chapter 31, verse 17 onward?
    1
  1201. Messy book?
    1
  1202. And no omissions?
    1
  1203. No, Spanish Inquisition was poor, This is just varied... If you wish to make better impression, Euodia, could you maybe answer a question?
    1
  1204. And Deuteronomy 20:13 is NOT the same as 'marriage' either. My... complacent... buddy? @DanfromOz 
    1
  1205. I thought it was dishonouring the holy spirit?
    1
  1206.  @meganann9625  And heaven failed to be perfect either, so what of it? And spare me that Edenic 'free will' crap. No angel went through any of that.
    1
  1207.  @meganann9625  Err, it can't because theology is also, I note, often not UNIFIED either? And I don't do theories, on something this crucial. You can COMMUNICATE with the Spirit, yes? So the Spirit - can simply - tell you, yes?
    1
  1208. I believe they mean't AFTER someone was, ah, born again, usually...
    1
  1209. How does one tell, with all the variations? And do Jews get in? And don't we all go to a perfected EARTH - and not heaven, anyway?
    1
  1210. Well, that was HIS choice, wasn't it? Why could he GET here, again?
    1
  1211. What's Christs? How many types are there? Why does it vary so much? And when will YOU teach why Satan could reach THIS world at all?
    1
  1212. Which old self? The one she felt unhappy about, or the one she WAS happy about?
    1
  1213. But you don't KNOW if you are unhappy deep down without conviction by the Spirit. So has she had that? And been told she has?
    1
  1214. Why can demons reach Earth...
    1
  1215. Is there a word in Greek for POSSESSIVE love, though?
    1
  1216. A little unfortunate yes. And was some views by Martin Luther about Jews...
    1
  1217. Okay. Will it also say if Eve KNEW if Satan existed, and of the impacts her choices and power over nature were liable to have, before encountering the fruit?
    1
  1218. And which say rape is okay? I must ask for detail on Numbers 31:17.
    1
  1219. @Nina Lee - we could maybe base it on long term inconsistency, division, disconnection and lack of clear interpretation, on some things? And that God did not act to CORRECT them, for a long time? That includes interpretations of slavery, viz Curse of Ham, and Leviticus 25:46? Or the varied view of Jews as godkillers/cursed etc? And what WAS mean't to happen to gay people within Christendom, in prior eras? Were attempts made to... cure... them, or not? Or was stoning still happening? And why was Satan owed any access to here?
    1
  1220. And what does Numbers 31:17 say? also, about consent for some women?
    1
  1221. Also, why would any angels not obey his Word, if they knew Him, were with him all the time, and lacked for nothing?
    1
  1222. Including why Satan could reach Earth, and if Eve knew of stakes to more than her and Adam, before she met the snake?
    1
  1223. So why could Satan reach Earth, and was he mean't to...?
    1
  1224. And why is there any jeopardy? Why could Satan reach Earth? And did Eve know he existed?
    1
  1225. So why were they used in the first place? Especially if they were often doomed to fail? And was Leviticus 25:46 useful for anti abolitionist arguments?
    1
  1226. And those that followed Numbers 31:17 without hesitation will?
    1
  1227. Where does it say why Satan can reach this world?
    1
  1228. And maybe gaps in the book need to be filled, too?
    1
  1229. Could be better at times, yes. And less omissions.
    1
  1230. Ok, but the omissions may have to be dealt with someday...
    1
  1231. And if the potential exists for instability and friction? As well as omissions in the Bible?
    1
  1232. How is it recommendatory? Source? What establishes this? Is it a Hebrew/Gentile category thing?
    1
  1233. Who's deception? Who was blinded? Is a Jew made blind for not receiving the same absolution?
    1
  1234. @kate moreno - but savior from who or what, and why was Satan owed any access to Eden or to keep any powers? And what of when loving the word conflicts with loving some people? And what of omissions in it?
    1
  1235. Hello?
    1
  1236. What does it say in Numbers 31:14 though...?
    1
  1237. Who knows? I cannot account for poor, multigenerational communication. It risks disappearing into irrelevancy or schism.
    1
  1238. Of course, perhaps I doubt you are a Christian too, @sessy cruz , and perhaps your understanding of John 14:12, may resolve this? It's at least an option. And there's pretty clearly more than one lgbtq community also - similarly to as there appears to be more than one Christianity.
    1
  1239. And why were some angels not born again? Or suicidally prideful?
    1
  1240. Which original nature? What was angelic original nature? And why would they ever think they could WIN a revolt? Also, were Adam and Eve AWARE they would be be affecting MORE than the two of them with their choices?
    1
  1241. Also, MANY PEOPLE- priests among them - dispute if any sex was involved in the Fall.
    1
  1242. What of omissions in the story, though?
    1
  1243. Some say it is, some say it isn't. Just like some say nature is in line with God, and others say it is 'earthy and demonic...'
    1
  1244.  @Maksie0  Sounds complicated, but I've no right to make judgements on who people should love or not. Love is a promise - not just a chemical.
    1
  1245. What makes them enemies? of Jehovah? The perennial self sabotaging sourpuss?
    1
  1246. The... incomplete, word of God?
    1
  1247.  @exioz99  Why not? Go and meet some. And when ask to speak to God, and BEG not to be gay, at times, and get NO answer, what then? Also, what's your view on Jews? are they Christian? Or Christian on the installment plan?
    1
  1248. And what is it? And when are the guides for it available?
    1
  1249. And despite what Paul claims in Corinthians 2 etc...
    1
  1250. Why did sin begin in heaven, though? And why send demons to this world, and not an emptier one?
    1
  1251. Something about it going against natural order. Even though suicidal rebel angels isn't very natural either. Nor is giving them a way to interfere with humans, and nature.
    1
  1252. God wants many things, but seems often to set himself up to fail to get it?
    1
  1253. Mmm, Judaism has quite a history of wars, in it's origins. I've let it go though. Christendom has also somehow ended up with it, including internecine wars. And as for Islam - if it's mean't to be the final perfect form of spiritual life - why need to enforce it with war and punishments for apostasy?
    1
  1254. Being not a Christian, it does also make me, somewhat sad, so many people, do not see, how messed up 2 Samuel 24, is. Or Deuteronomy 21:11, and Exodus, 21:2-7? As it, were, @Yes1334kr . So far.
    1
  1255. Blind in what particular way? As blind as Torquemada, was, say? Only, as a senior policy maker, of a church - did he have, ANY business... being blind. Or to be allowed, to remain, so? @Yes1334kr 
    1
  1256. So, why did He answer you? And not, say, Mark O'Shiro and others? And what was part of plan that required Satan leaving heaven with assorted powers, and setting foot onto this world, of all choices?
    1
  1257.  @maxluca1015  Did YOU READ Leviticus 25:46, by any chance? About bequeathing anybody?
    1
  1258. But he did not love Middianites so much? And what of Jews in Medieval Europe, often labelled by blood libel?
    1
  1259.  @harrygarris6921  And boy, I've heard MORE spiritual claims and experiences than you could probably DREAM of, by now... I know how to catalogue, them, too.
    1
  1260.  @harrygarris6921  Hahahahahahahahahahaha - good one. Enjoy putting THAT 'spin' on Hosea 9:12-16, then... And thanks, realest ofAll, for PROVING my ruddy point...
    1
  1261.  @B3llaaaaaaavm  Well, frankly, you and I see differently on Hosea 9:12-16, Zephaniah, 1 Samuel 15:3, and other crimes. And if to sin is to err, or fall short - well, I think heaven, and angels, needed more work, frankly. Given the results. What went wrong with THEIR version of Romans 1:20, thin as it is...
    1
  1262.  @localerik  well that wasn't really the point, as such. It's more the way they are left hanging in the wind, along with other loose ends ala Matthew 5:18. I consider it basically a victimless act, most of the time (lgbtq)
    1
  1263.  @madeleinepembelton1492  Only potentially. I mean, as Jesus barely mentioned them, and then Matthew 5:18 was referenced in detail by him, and Paul, and others - then they were potentially in heightened danger than some other people would be, in later Christendom. I mean, we already KNOW that partly as a result of Matthew 5:18, many accused of being 'witches', or labelled as such, would often face summary arrest, trial and often quite rapid, execution, also. Therefore we cannot, without more detail, be sure if the same often happened in medieval Europe and beyond, to many LGBTQ, and so forth. It is, as I said, a loose end, where many may have been left hanging in the wind, under-protected.
    1
  1264. And why would he let them? And why did a blood libel on medieval Jews even come to exist?
    1
  1265. Of course they push coerced marriages of prisoners of war into the Old Testament and Judaism. It's questionable, and archaic, @EE Taylor .
    1
  1266.  @leilacurigliano6776  Yes, but what was meant to be in it, or not? And ever abrogated, or not?
    1
  1267. And why could the devil REACH this world, in the first place? Without being blocked?
    1
  1268. The whole world was flooded. Thousands or more died. On the march to Palestine, a complainer to Moses was SWALLOWED up into the ground. And what of the verse about a man being 'handed over to Satan, for destruction of the flesh...'? Why did he NEED to be on this world?
    1
  1269. I ah, said the word BLOCKED, very carefully, to imply my meaning. Must I flesh out that I mean't GOD might be the one, ah, blocking him? From reaching the world?
    1
  1270. And did He say WHY disloyal angels were allowed to set any foot upon Earth? Also, consent, in Deuteronomy and Samuel 15?
    1
  1271. What about Corinthians 2:14? And the idea of 'carnal minds' and the 'natural man'? That's also before getting into the idea of 'strong delusion'?
    1
  1272. But peace and love is NOT the only central part of the message. The other half is the idea of awareness of 'brokenness' and the sin nature. And the Bible does NOT seem able to convey or convince about this in quite the same way it used to (when few people spoke Latin among peasants)
    1
  1273. They haven't yet made up their mind whether you are 'consciously rebelling', I suppose...
    1
  1274. In who? The Eastern Orthodox Jesus, Charismatic, Catholic or Protestant one? And of the Logos, or the redeemer through blood sanctifying?
    1
  1275.  @nomad_cat1  And if that did not work, what then? Would they endure enforced metanoia? Or be 'slain in the Spirit' as our American cousins often say, in an attempt to overwhelm their instincts? Would some kind of erratic, and still rather controversial, conversion therapies be tried, either? And what of all the animal species that also feature homosexual behavior, from time to time? Are they less natural, in this case, or not - and was some parts of nature impaired, hijacked, or derailed, post Fall, if so? Also, a real Christian just might have a unique relationship with John 14:12, but that topic is too far ranging for now, probably.
    1
  1276.  @DrDoerk  Did they teach you John 14:13, perhaps - smart alec?
    1
  1277.  @DrDoerk  When I actually see all the missing pertinent parts, I'll let you know. Now, tell me how legal or consensual, those aforesaid - marriages - were meant to be? And for sin - read 'hamartia' perhaps.
    1
  1278. Are you a Christian too? May I ask - if you can fulfil, John 14:12 then? Or maybe... Matthew 17:20? After all those schisms... and 'guided steps', and 'raising up' and so on... Frankly, I have a hard time telling. It's nearly as confusing... as 2 Samuel 24. @BeckiJonesHateClub 
    1
  1279. Newsflash, for you? You are one of a sinful community whether you want to be, or not. It's called 'the human race'. Also, not all of us have read Romans 8:30. How does it align... with free will? @AnonymousCommentor_ 
    1
  1280. And use YOUR brain, too, please. If you are not, to fulfil, John 14:12? Romans 1:20 is suspect, for one. It was invalidated by 1 Corinthians 2:14, 2 Corinthians 4:4... the 'Fall', the 'Glass Darkly', and James 3:15. All of that adds so much small print, to the concept, that it may as well be meaningless, to many, many people. Plus, sin began, in heaven. Not Earth. And Earth instead... became a realm to... gestate, sin, in? Well, as awkwardly guarded, as it was by Adam and Eve (who lacked much knowledge...) how then... could it have been anything else? But people are not born knowing which and how many gods exist, and what is 'natural' is no longer what was initially designed. So you may need to be more precise, here. Also, why should Spanish Jews trust your opinion... or descendants, of African slaves, either...? @ezekiel440 
    1
  1281. Can you also not fulfil John 14:12... and remain, a Christian? As some are confused, on that score. Also, people could keep slaves... and be a Christian. For a long time, too. @LinkLovesJesus 
    1
  1282. And what complacent people, too. Anyway, bet you never lived in medieval Jewish Spain... mmm? As they had it pretty rough, also. @LinkLovesJesus 
    1
  1283. Fulfil John 14:12, please, then, I suggest? Since, it's amazing how MANY would be Christians, got to run churches... sects, denominations, and make, entire policy... for whole nations (and, for Spanish Jews...?) for centuries: But never, had, to fulfil... that verse. Was that possible, to do, then? @jordanlandsaw7263 
    1
  1284. And if they don't understand it? Or end up in a dispute of churches? Or if the Word has significant omissions? Including why rebel angles would be allowed any access to Earth, or if Eve and Adam had any idea such existed?
    1
  1285. The point she seemed to think she was making was that both urges seemed to 'feel' normal or 'right' to the person feeling them, I gather?
    1
  1286. And missing backstory in the initial part, also.
    1
  1287. Unless you are Paul, and then you can?
    1
  1288. Well, is it a complete book? No gaps, ambiguities or omissions?
    1
  1289. Certainly, but what SHOULD be done for gay people, and can they be... cured, or not? And why is a cure ONLY being talked about these last few decades, and it does not always work? What happened before then? Were many, well, stoned to death?
    1
  1290.  @glorfindelchocolateflowery6392  Is it? What's an arsenokoit, then? Or a 'reprobate'? And what is or isn't naturally chosen, or corrupted, from birth? Also, hard to know who to bully if they do not all agree? Or may bully each other for differences? A women lit in earlier to me about Protestants all being against God, for instance. And it WASN'T always between Jesus and themselves, potentially, if their very COUNTRY and priests may have wanted some dead?
    1
  1291. Hmm, but did he love pre Flood people any less? Or Jews in medieval Europe any less?
    1
  1292. And what if people get VERY confused about Deuteronomy 21:14? Or Samuel 15:15? Or Numbers 11:19? And why can demons reach Earth, at all?
    1
  1293. I also ask why he would owe Satan anything at all...
    1
  1294. So, how do you feel about James 3:15? it confuses me, somewhat.
    1
  1295. Although maybe Esau, and pre Flood people, were loved a little, less?
    1
  1296. I mean people drowned in a FLOOD. THE Flood. And why was heaven ever imperfect? Also, if persecution is going to happen, by people who BELIEVE they are doing RIGHT, then how is it resolved? Is there actions to take to avert it? As a, er, God?
    1
  1297. But not slave trading, in contrast, or a blood libel on Jews, or an Inquisition? Or at very least, @thechristianway5865 - He'll be, quite quiet, or discreet, or relatively inactive... when those happen, for a while? They will not, be, so obviously, seen as abominable? Also, what is, a wicked plan - and does 2 Samuel 24:1-16, count; or Judges 9:23, or Jeremiah 25:29? And maybe, Judges 21:14, too? I assume there are, special exemptions, though, in those cases (and in sowing dissension, too - see Judges 9:23, again) Also, can there be a witness, to how Satan, got to revisit heaven - in time of Job? Or just, an account, say?
    1
  1298. I'm afraid arrogant texts did that for me. Paul presumes a great deal in Romans 1:20, and Exodus 21:20 and Samuel 15:15, plus numbers 11:19, are just bad at connecting with many people...
    1
  1299. Sorry, and what of those following, or BORN into, other religions, @Lily Taylor? And why was Satan OWED any access?
    1
  1300.  @lilytaylor9059  What happens to them? Which lake do they go into or not? And why?
    1
  1301.  @lilytaylor9059  And why was Satan owed any access to Eden, or to Earth, post exile? Or to keep various angelic powers?
    1
  1302.  @lilytaylor9059  How is being born into other religions, or being born with down's syndrome, or being born a 'natural man' fully part of free will, though? Especially if the latter DRASTICALLY reduces one's spiritual capacity and awareness? And this was also all inheritable? Also, isn't hell THROWN INTO the Pit at the end of times, along with death?
    1
  1303.  @lilytaylor9059  Also, tempting other Christians is a bit different from potentially being able to pose as a being of light, and as other gods altogether, if people are by default, BORN unaware of which or how many creators nature has? And Romans 1:20 comes late in the day, in addressing this, as people will not automatically know which bits of nature are stable and intended or not, if it looks in tension oftentime.
    1
  1304. Not always. Can be major points of DIVERGENCE.
    1
  1305. Because he does not want his little work 'spoiled' I guess. Even though he was fine with fallen angels reaching his new planet...
    1
  1306. Dealing with us? Via permitting Satan to, ah, certain worlds?
    1
  1307. Odd it was SO EASY to pick parts about slavery, once upon a time, too...
    1
  1308.  @rowski4568  And how can we be sure that will never happen again? Also, WHAT DID used to happen to gay people, historically, within Christendom?
    1
  1309. Yet some do try to be. Others, like Mark O'shiro, pleaded not to be, to be accepted more in his church. And got no answer...
    1
  1310. And resolve omissions in Genesis?
    1
  1311. I also still do not know if all must be PHYSICALLY resurrected or not, before going to either destination post judging...
    1
  1312. Well, it's nicer, than being chosen people, in 2 Samuel 24, anyway. Now, that, was nasty. Nor, did it altogether look, like loving all, the same? Or, Bathsheba's first baby, too...? @brinceleste8985 
    1
  1313. But then Paul adds various commentary in Corinthians 2, Romans 1:20 and Timothy, does he not? Which complicates things? Was he referring to rapists and dominance sexual acts, or not?
    1
  1314. Sorry, and in your considered view, post Fall, who CONTROLS which bits of human sexuality or not? God, Adam or Satan, @Lily R479 ? Before we get into the issue of volition, here? And how many anti Semitic massacres were also meant to occur, if I may ask, in Christendom, or not?
    1
  1315.  @MwSama  It happened. If you look up history, you will see it happened, MANY,, many times. Worrying. Often even endorsed by priests. Meanwhile, who controls what bits of human nature, post Fall, exactly? What indeed, IS fully natural, now?
    1
  1316. So does this describe Metanoia, in detail?
    1
  1317. It sounds a good idea to me. I know you differ a lot from them on what original sin is or what it is at all. Maybe you can also get out of them why Satan was owed any access to this world at all?
    1
  1318. And then remove those who are NOT born again from actually LEADING churches or nations, and making policy, say, towards Jews, or wars, or slavery etc, @Michael Danique ...? Oh, sorry, too late.
    1
  1319. Please work on it them. Can we begin with why demons could reach Earth...
    1
  1320. Also, the weirdness, perhaps, of Leviticus 25:46?
    1
  1321. It wasn't originally, but there was a strong sense of being 'pre chosen' coming across, sometimes. With an appeal to preaching to Gentiles emerging later, but with a similar sales pitch/claim attached.
    1
  1322. That's good, but I'm not sure Paul and Timothy would have agreed in their era...?
    1
  1323. So, we CAN distinguish 'brokenness' from CONSCIOUS rebellion, then? I'm sure this will have SOME application to both, er, Jews, and gay people?
    1
  1324. Fascinating. Also, and what has Jesus himself said about it? Not in a book - TODAY.
    1
  1325. Well, there are, er, SO MANY variations, by, ah, now?
    1
  1326. HOW DO YOU KNOW? And how were any ANGELS created - some ignorant, or not, of Him?
    1
  1327.  @jacoblopez2194  Why make ignorant angels either, who can be tricked? And Stewards with no idea of enemy agents?
    1
  1328. And does that mean the previous ones were never God's preference? No matter how precisely worded?
    1
  1329. But Jesus said 'not one jot or tittle will pass from the law'? And why is it so clear about some things, but less clear, say, in Leviticus 25:46?
    1
  1330. Have you read them? How accepted or loved were people there, and what became of the women in Numbers 31:17?
    1
  1331. Depends who one's neighbour is, probably? And St Paul judged quite a few people - sometimes practically pre-emptively.
    1
  1332. Lot of stuff changed pre Babylon Captivity and post, @ilimary Lili - as it did, between various translations, including King James and NIV.
    1
  1333. May not have been precisely how she mean't it. It's possible she mean't that it all seemed like it 'felt' equally right to either person... Also, many paedophiles may assume there is some form of twisted 'consent'...
    1
  1334. Okay, but how did anything go wrong in heaven in the first place?
    1
  1335. And why is it incomplete?
    1
  1336. Sorry, but don't you mean even God FELL SHORT of what God intended? Why was heaven ever flawed, originally, @victory Omietimi ? And why did Satan keep any powers? Also, what is the standard, of say, Leviticus 25:46? And for all time, or some time?
    1
  1337. As long as it's not sick POSSESSIVE love that the Old Testament, could, er, never quite escape? And Luke 14:26 unintentionally may evoke?
    1
  1338. Inc Numbers 5:11?
    1
  1339. Hmm, and to say why Satan can reach this world at all?
    1
  1340. Did you ever find out why you were in jeopardy? And most people KNOW they cannot live 'however they want' because they must CO-EXIST with other people. It's gotten harder within multi-cultures though. But for an individual to be safest, and to benefit the most from a community, they must value the rights and safety of OTHER individuals. Paul created categories for people he did not feel fit into that society, but not all of them seem to stand up.
    1
  1341. Never so easy to tell, these days, as it used to be, hmm? And as many do at least THINK they are, then why is this?
    1
  1342. Don't we have to? Given even the translators couldn't always be trusted, or the edits, and a lot was left rather broad, @jayjay 123 ? And what was to happen to gay people after Matthew 5:18?
    1
  1343.  @jayjay-hm4ns  Broad if it meant many could be put to death for many things, even after the 'new dispensation' arose, perhaps? Depending on which priest, bishop, theologian or Pope, you asked, in the past? Also, was the word 'typoi' meant to be used in 1 Corinthians 10, or not?
    1
  1344. If you do not literally fulfil John 14:12-13, then... Sorry, are ANY of you?
    1
  1345. And how should we EVER follow Leviticus 25:46, and Exodus 21:20, and Samuel 15:15, @Invisible Drummer ? And how about Luke 19:27, or 14:26?
    1
  1346.  @bent2  Well, how does it work? I though God's ways DO NOT EVER change? Like how Genesis 4 presented atonement? That nobody else can do it for you? Were Jews to ignore that? Or other statements about a Mossiach? Or believe God would ever resort to any form of human sacrifice, again? And I'll grant you Luke 19:27, but we are also to honor our father and mother. Who I can TALK to, SEE, and get replies from. And KNOW that there are ONLY those two parents. Not a hidden being who is a plurality who is presented somewhat differently by various churches? And why would YHWH soweth rival beliefs on this world, anyway, if they were to be a mortal insult to worship?
    1
  1347.  @bent2  Is this context, any major help, to you?
    1
  1348. By what definition? And does it count as lukewarm, @MilkyJuice - say, by not knowing WHY Satan kept any powers, post exile?
    1
  1349.  Shaikul !  So we are told. How do we know what He would or wouldn't do? We don't even know what Satan was owed anything, yet...
    1
  1350.  @agentpiggles6685  I'm asking if you've peeked at those chapters, and what you make of them - viz ethics, consensuality, and so forth. Particularly for Numbers 31:17 to 52.
    1
  1351. So, why could Satan ever re-enter heaven and stand in God's presence, then?
    1
  1352.  @schecidnavarrete3036  Well, maybe some day they'll see it as important enough to put on evangelic pamphlets then?
    1
  1353.  @josephbd7667  Also, coerced marriage, ala Numbers 31:17 - this then, comparatively, is NOT an abomination, nor detestable?
    1
  1354.  @IVD_MASTER  Yes, some would call that poor forward facing brand identity. Especially if some ran whole denominations, in the past?
    1
  1355. DO ANY OF YOU? FILL IN GAPS! On why - Satan - was OW£D - ANY - thing...
    1
  1356. So, how are they to cure themselves? And for how long was a cure even an option offered them?
    1
  1357. If the words allow such wiggle room, though...? Also, how did Paul of Tarsus see some people?
    1
  1358. How do you feel about Jeremiah 2:30, 1 Samuel 15:3, 2 Samuel 12:18 and Leviticus 25:46, then, @brent polk ? Are they sinful? And is standing by and doing nothing about fruits of Leviticus 25:46 - in say, Spain - many centuries later, also sinful? Or about fruits of Matthew 27:25, too - a verse used to some degree with hyperbole, in the past of European Christendom? And where too, does Exodus 32:14 fall into this, or Amos 3:6? But then, those are about evil - rather than sin.
    1
  1359. But from what are you saved? What required you or any be put at risk?
    1
  1360.  Spencer Tracy  Yes, like you can't leave unclear verses to go off like unexploded bombs in later eras, that may contribute to slavery being prolonged, but solely blame humans, alone?
    1
  1361. How do you know? And why can Satan reach this world?
    1
  1362. And why does, the, er, Jeopardy exist? Why could demons set foot upon Earth?
    1
  1363. So how did He make angels? How did they prefer to live? And given they could SEE Him all the time, how did they ever conclude they lacked anything in heaven, to want to listen to Satan? Who logically, could not WIN a revolt, if they had any basic knowledge of God's nature?
    1
  1364. No, Leviticus 25:46, is what it is. And a stain... on history, often. @rockweirdo8147 
    1
  1365. So how did Esau feel? And were pre Flood people loved less? or medieval Jews? Also, what is the 'natural man', and is nature a reliable indicator of God or not?
    1
  1366. Sorry - why was heaven ever unstable?
    1
  1367. Sounds usual to me. Why could demons set foot upon Earth? And did God wish them to?
    1
  1368. Er, what happened to 'the kingdom is within you' and 'the kingdom comes without observation, or outward sign'? That can be interpreted in certain ways...
    1
  1369. I do feel Corinthians 2:14 and James 3:15 complicates things a lot though...
    1
  1370. So, were any Jews EVER mean't to be tortured to death, or Africans to be sold as slaves, within Christendom, or not?
    1
  1371. Wrong - fill in, some omissions, first.
    1
  1372. Why was heaven ever unstable, though? And why were demons even permitted to reach Earth?
    1
  1373.  @MwSama  So, from a healthy perspective, which direction should he go next?
    1
  1374. Could be better, anyway. Bells omissions and proneness to siege mentality might help.
    1
  1375. @Christian Weidmann But will rapists? And was the fate of captives in Numbers 31:17, entirely clear cut?
    1
  1376. Timestamp?
    1
  1377. No, not quite. I believe her concept she was trying to convey was that both somehow 'felt normal' or 'right' to the person at the time?
    1
  1378. How does He operate? Including in Leviticus 25:46? And why could Satan reach Earth?
    1
  1379. Why could he do this? Why do Jews doubt? Why did any Christians in medieval times ever persecute Jews? why do schisms occur? Can TWO PEOPLE ever really make a CHOICE for an entire species? And why would sin even come to EXIST in heaven? When angels, UNLIKE humans, can SEE GOD all the TIME?
    1
  1380. Did God WANT Satan to reach Earth? Or just the serpent? And how much did Eve know about Satan, including that he existed?
    1
  1381. Can he tell us HIMSELF here and now, and not in the words of other authors, perhaps, thousands of years ago, potentially, @Bannana ? And who controls what aspects of nature, post Fall, also?
    1
  1382. Thoughts on Numbers 31:17, and consent, also?
    1
  1383. But which God? One in Sermon on Mount, or in Samuel 15:15 and Leviticus 25:46?
    1
  1384. You defend yourself if you think people are somehow afraid of you, often times.
    1
  1385. Well, there are so many variations. Why are so many now saying Eve had sex with the Serpent?
    1
  1386. Sorry, and what were angels made for, precisely, in heaven, @you know it's ME ? And after the Fall, how much or not, of human nature, could Satan alter, or not? What indeed, IS fully and obviously, natural?
    1
  1387. Very little, and this an ambiguous story about two women in the Old Testament being very close. I'd have to get back to you on it, though. Not my expertise. But women were to 'be silent' anyway, though, right? As if somehow a fruit in Eden could corrupt one unborn gender worse than the other one...
    1
  1388. How do you KNOW WHICH are, though? And which denominations?
    1
  1389. Don't turn people into props to simplify the spiritual journey of others please. Also, please try to explain why a blood libel on European Jews in Christendom would ever occur...
    1
  1390. Okay, so can Numbers 31:17 and the Beautitudes fit, in the, er, same well then? Or Leviticus 25:46?
    1
  1391.  @hindutero3900  Which bits of humanity? What of Jude 4, 2 Timothy 1:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:11, Luke 13:24, and Romans 9:11-22? Back, up, your claims. Also, Esau, Ham's son, David's INFANT son, and Achan's sons and daughters - also, equally, loved?
    1
  1392. Why not talk to Him directly, though? Instead of through a Book all the time? Where it's already seemingly resulted in several schisms in the last two centuries?
    1
  1393. Oh, so th£ M£di£val £ra, that wasn't worldly £nough for you? What was to occur to J£ws, if I may? And why was Satan ow£d any ac£ss to this world, initially?
    1
  1394. Also, what pr£cis£ly DID occur to captiv£s in Numb£rs 31:17?
    1
  1395. Err, how? God wanted it mistranslated? Did nothing?
    1
  1396. Why? Why are any separated/jeopardised? Why could disloyal angels reach Earth? And why were two people given sole choice to 'separate' an entire species from God in Eden? And how much knowledge did they have before their, ah, choice?
    1
  1397. Well, talking of the latter, can you define the 'natural man' to me, please? And how it fits with Romans 1:20?
    1
  1398. So, I'm glad Paul is not TOTALLY controlled by dogmatic ideas, then? Just with some perceptions and not others?
    1
  1399. And some people above justified biblical slavery with arguments that were not biblical. See Leviticus 25:46, in contrast. @am7884 
    1
  1400. Pardon me... but how do you know? Also, as things have gotten fairly long winded, and convoluted, by now... And post several schisms... What is... the message? Boiled down, to essentials... @thatoneguyfromthatonething323 
    1
  1401. Rebukes it for what specifically, though, @Darya Gusarova , and how do you find the idea of coerced marriage, by comparison? Leaving transgenderism, aside, for now. Stick to other two.
    1
  1402.  @daryagusarova2293  Liar. You read Numbers 31:18, the same as me, thanks. So REFLECT on that event, and if it looked 'detestable' or not. Or Joshua 7:24, 1 Samuel 15:3, and Hosea 9:12-16, thanks. And were the lives and safety and rights, of medieval Spanish and Italian Jews, worth LESS or not, to this God, than other lives were... within His 'Christendom'...
    1
  1403.  @yeahgoaway7607  Not sure where you got some of those from. What happened to some things being 'detestable'... And what was 'done' to captive Canaanite women, spared, either...
    1
  1404.  @daryagusarova2293  We DESERVE nothing? For things we DIDN'T CHOSE? That we were PREDISPOSED to, some claim, via no choice of our own? Gimme a break. Why did so many deranged angels DESERVE to keep powers, or access this world, then... whilst UNIMPAIRED in terms of spiritual knowledge. And what of INACTION too? SHOULD THAT be apologized, or accounted for? Even by some of the divine... Yeesh. And Zephaniah remains utterly risible to me, so far, as does those ranty Hosea 9 exchanges.
    1
  1405.  @yeahgoaway7607  And what makes the rest of us different? And what do you THINK happened to many gay people in Christendom, for CENTURIES, after Matthew 5:18 was written? How would you rate their basic safety, after that...? From execution, or goodness knows what else.
    1
  1406. Ah, did Paul and Timothy always teach the same?
    1
  1407. Will he say why a blood libel on Jews was ever necessary? Also, (despite my mild respect for Lorna Byrne) why slavery was the ONLY way to get black people to America?
    1
  1408. Mark 5:18, buddy. It didn't die off quick enough.
    1
  1409.  @elishaallison5166  Then fill in the missing bits of that Word, pro tem. Tell me how ANY ANGELS devolved, in heaven, and why their free will and ours, DIFFERS so much? none of THEM had to 'chose' for other angels, not yet born, and IMPAIR them spiritually, or pass on a 'sin nature' to them, before birth, too. Before they chose a 'side' in heaven - a realm where dissatisfaction was supposedly impossible.
    1
  1410. Really? What of those who run a mile from Numbers and Deuteronomy? Were abused by nuns, or priests? Prayed a long time for clarity, but didn't get it? Abused by parents and failed to get an answer for what to do? And WHY could demons set foot upon Earth? Also, to who is the ransom paid? God, Satan, or all the Bene Elohim?
    1
  1411. Right, but I am AWARE that Numbers 11:19, and 31:14, and Exodus 21:20, and Samuel 15:15 - LOOK - to be somewhat - evil?
    1
  1412. And fallen angels being able to disguise themselves may mean they have GREATER free will, and greater opportunity to subvert it for others? Say, for scattered tribes since Babel?
    1
  1413. It's not JUST about that. It's why they were not PREVENTED from getting to THIS world, if it was going to make God UNHAPPY. And lead to a devastating flood. Or disguised angels 'deceiving people'?
    1
  1414. Because that seems like indiscriminate JEOPARDY to me. And a church that oftentimes schisms or disagrees on things like interpretation and discernment seems ill equipped to resolve it. Hence the temptation of claiming narrow gates and how many will be called but not chosen - even though reading does not always equal COMPREHENSION of the ideas?
    1
  1415. So why did a flood happen? Why does Numbers 11 and 31 seem like... lowly ethical guidance? Or Exodus 21:20?
    1
  1416. My parents, my family? I love THEM UNCONDITIONALLY. I learned many MORALS and ethics and COMPASSION from them. So how do I weigh Luke 14:26 with this? The Old Testament? Had NOTHING on them. The New Testament? Starts well, then meanders off into Paul's and Timothy's circular logic on several things.
    1
  1417. He hasn't paid for all of them though? Jews need good reason to convert, and that has not always been there. The blood libel against them in Christian Europe is historical fact, and sadly, not resolved for a long time. And to who is the ransom paid? To Jehovah, to Satan, or to all the Bene Elohim as a whole, in heaven? Where a civil war once raged?
    1
  1418. Exodus 21 seemed more to me how much you can beat SLAVES, to my recollection. And that you can buy them from neighbouring countries...?
    1
  1419. What PROOF do we have on what a slave was, also, and who could and couldn't be bought, and why? When Job's children are replaced, like property? And where you can still BEAT servants taking into the family, very hard? And Jews, who often seemed to act WORSE than many other cultures at the time, were never to become 'servants who become part of a family'?
    1
  1420. That may not have been what she meant, perhaps, to be fair. More that the DESIRE or feelings can seem similar, to the one experiencing them?
    1
  1421.  @dee_cx8246  Loved WHO? And then got lazy about getting the TRUE, unedited, uncorrupted or misused word, to other nations? Or the fate of Jews...
    1
  1422. How would we know? Would He WANT to drown most humans in a flood? And knew this would happen? Why can disloyal angels reach Earth at all? And did Adam know they existed?
    1
  1423. Can they be human beings? And are you saying they are spiritually dead?
    1
  1424. Well, about it 'feeling normal' at the time, to the one experiencing it, I think she meant, @Eunice . Not that that makes it very fair, either way...
    1
  1425.  @shannonneifert2075  I really am still waiting for your answer, Shannon.
    1
  1426. I shall indeed, read it. But in exchange - I do want you, to read, Deuteronomy 20:13, Deuteronomy 21:11, and Leviticus 25:46. Whilst also, optionally - Exodus 21:2-7, and Judges 21:14? If that is not too much trouble. @Tranquilizer3487 
    1
  1427. And so is a f***ing 350 year slave trade... surely? A sin? With or without, Leviticus 25... @dookiyeh 
    1
  1428.  @Danknight-bp7wh  Date, scope, and size of the tower of Babel? Also, did the confusing of languages, make the assorted peoples, less, or more vulnerable, once scattered - to disguised, deranged, rebel angels...?
    1
  1429. Well, if disguised rebel angels can get here, can't they pose as Gods? Did God not know that?
    1
  1430. First Satan/Samael, and then some say 1/3 of all angels followed him...
    1
  1431. Sorry to hear that. By the way, have you found out why can demons could set foot upon Earth yet?
    1
  1432. So why would He ever make Himself UNHAPPY? Unhappy enough to drown a world, and women, and children? And WHY can fallen angels reach this world at all...
    1
  1433. So what is your take on Corinthians 2:14? And what IS nature, in context of it?
    1
  1434.  @fernbiswas9791  A view we can all pretty easily agree on, at present, yes. But what do we derive it from - besides observation and views of nature, and volition, etc? The Bible is far from clear itself, on such things - or even on consent, maybe, in Numbers 31?
    1
  1435. Well said. Plus, do you have any opinions on Romans 11:32?
    1
  1436. But why could demons set foot upon Earth, at all? And why stone adolescents who talked back?
    1
  1437. Has this happened? Er, no. It has not. Not since the days before Augustinian. And schisms continued from there. Also, is there a clear view of how free will works if TWO people make the choice to separate an entire species from God? (when in Edin)
    1
  1438. But why is heaven any safer than Earth? If one THIRD of the angels rebel for practically no reason, whilst in the direct PRESENCE of God, what is to stop it happening again? And what did they lack for, that would lead to such suicidal pride? Also, why permit them to reach Earth at all?
    1
  1439. And loved Satan have roaming rights, and knowledge of good and evil - but not Eve?
    1
  1440. Although we are going to discuss the line, at some point, however? Of where it is drawn... or moved...? Because marriage... is not clearly, defined, in both testaments. And nor... always... is, consent. @CakeFace86 
    1
  1441. Aha. And Numbers 31:17, this was consensual?
    1
  1442. So, pre Flood people and medieval Jews, they were loved,...?
    1
  1443. And compare if Numbers 31:17 was ethically sound, along the way...
    1
  1444. Why could fallen angels reach Earth, Gochi?
    1
  1445. Then how much of nature is or isn't Satan permitted to control? And where does James 3:15 and Corinthians 2:14 fit into this?
    1
  1446. But why can demons reach Earth at all? And why did the blood libel on Jews come to be?
    1
  1447. One wonders why it all varies so much.
    1
  1448. Is it? And how do you see Numbers 31:17? How much is that consensual?
    1
  1449.  @eliscott0833  Well, tell St. Paul to stop, too.
    1
  1450. Views tend to vary...
    1
  1451. Proof? What about CONSENT? And what does Deuteronomy 20:10 say about consent?
    1
  1452. And where does Romans 1:20 and Corinthians 2 fit in? I speak here in your defence, to be fair.
    1
  1453. Follow him to where? And why was heaven ever unstable?
    1
  1454. From what? Why could demons reach Earth? What did Adam and Eve KNOW about them? And the risk?
    1
  1455. And where does jeopardy come from? Why could Satan enter Eden?
    1
  1456. And which is more important? The free will of fallen angels able to disguise themselves, or the free will of yet to be born humans? And did Eve and Adam know at the time if they could HAVE children? And would affect them with their choice? Make them UNABLE to see God, or the disguised rebel, saboteur angels, who made God unhappy?
    1
  1457. Right. So do we rip out and destroy Leviticus and Numbers and Exodus 20 and 21, if they now do more harm or confusion, than good?
    1
  1458. And rude.
    1
  1459. I fear I must as well, but I would hear some defences - if not sketchy ones.
    1
  1460. As for what desire is, and which of it is or isn't 'proper', that can be harder to define...
    1
  1461. And was HIS PEOPLE responsible during Numbers 31:17, or Leviticus 25:46? And why did Satan get to KEEP any powers, upon exile?
    1
  1462. IAOUE - chew on it.
    1
  1463.  @Miguelthedestroyer  No problem. May be therapeutic? Anyway, names, and vowels, tend to shift over the millennia.
    1
  1464. I dunno what their view on Numbers 31:17 even is... they won't tell me.
    1
  1465. Ok. Also, did you ever read Paul M. Young's books?
    1
  1466. Why doesn't HE DESERVE hell or similar, then, for making BROKEN delusional and suicidally prideful angels, or letting 1 Corinthians 10 be SO BADLY written, to do IMMENSE harm to Jews in the 'wrong' hands, later, theologically wise, then, @Rishelle Dcosta ? Try and back that up a bit more please - ditto for Leviticus 25:46, which did not seem made 'no longer applicable' sufficiently. If sin does indeed mean, 'to err'.
    1
  1467. Given how much harm some of it did, and many lose ends and omissions, can you blame them, @Aliya ? Also, how successful do you feel Medieval Christendom was, at governing Europe?
    1
  1468. No, they need to fulfil John 14:12. It might... help. By this juncture? @grantbelanger9182 
    1
  1469. Why couldn't all angels do that, though, @Naruto Gaming ? Or even conceive of separation from God?
    1
  1470. And will God ever address a large number of people again, to clarify what was or wasn't changed or altered? In the book He seemingly permitted to be altered?
    1
  1471. Why would delusional angels be permitted to reach Earth?
    1
  1472.  @MwSama  And why must humans do all the work? Wasn't sorting out slavery also rather tricky? And ending anti semitism?
    1
  1473.  @shongololo3628  Prove it? And why was Satan owed any access to this world?
    1
  1474. And why could Satan get back into heaven?
    1
  1475. Sounds good to me. Numbers has gone well past it's sell by date now...
    1
  1476. Did they also accept Leviticus 25:46 for a while?
    1
  1477. Controversial as many (especially the last) was. And Numbers 31:17, presumably...
    1
  1478. Like, maybe, Numbers 5:11 or 31:17...?
    1
  1479. It says many things,. Dos not always say som things.
    1
  1480. And would not be complete without reference to Numbers 5:11?
    1
  1481. Not as much as Numbers 31:17 made me...
    1
  1482. And no gaps, yes, on sexual consent, Mark?
    1
  1483. And if the word looks to have omissions?
    1
  1484. Nor does sending suicidal rebel angels to Earth have much benefit, so what of it?
    1
  1485. Like how angels and humans are both somehow just the same? And tested on the same level? Because...
    1
  1486. And Numbers 31:17 depicts fully normal behaviour then, The Centurion? By contrast?
    1
  1487. And what did Numbers 31:17 imply? Of marriages, there?
    1
  1488. I want context? ON the prisoners. And sexual consent, in it?
    1
  1489. @Chinglunmawi Tonsing - well, did you all, have it? And in Medieval times, did you have it then? And did sectarian wars, anti Semitism, blood libels on Jews, Inquisitions, and confusion on slavery or not, fail to arise? Except they did, confusingly. And were not rapidly resolved, either? And why was heaven itself ever flawed or divided? Also, what is your view on inherited curses?
    1
  1490. Hey, if quality control go awry... May I ask why the blood libel on Jews ever came to be?
    1
  1491. Why does the jeopardy exist? And why can demons reach Earth?
    1
  1492.  @jhonsmith3056  Also, how do you view Leviticus 25, for 'bequeathing' anyone, for life - and what type of infanticide, do you feel 2 Samuel 15:18, and 1 Samuel 15:3, and Hosea 9:12, emphasize...
    1
  1493.  @jhonsmith3056  And what standards, ARE YOU worried, about, may I ask? Infanticide, and predestinating, and all, say...?
    1
  1494. Also, did they fully make their own choices, or does Satan have PARTIAL control over nature, as some verses vaguely indicate?
    1
  1495.  @Rabbit_Person  Do you ever 'celebrate' Hosea 9, or 2 Kings 10, honeybun? Also, have you even read Deuteronomy 21:13? What kind of 'marriages' were in it? And how about, Exodus 21-4 to 7; or Leviticus 25:46, also?
    1
  1496. And why is that? Also, what is this predrawn and predestinated business? And did Numbers 15:32 SERIOUSLY rate more urgent, to Him, than the entire d*mn Western slave trade (lasted, 350 years) and the blood libel, upon medieval Jews... and the Spanish Inquisition? And during which, would many European, and Spanish Jews, then, WANT... to call on Him. Or expect, He would help? Who's, side, was He on... or did He, altogether, abstain? Finally, define, Revelations, 13:8...? (Also, we remember when He just, had to know, what silly Satan... thought of Job? Or maybe, allegorically) @theparadigm8149 
    1
  1497. Consent? Well, that's more than some could say... of Deuteronomy 21:11, mind. @DiscipleDrake 
    1
  1498. Well, sometimes it is hard to know WHAT is believed, and why there are so many differences, and variations, different views of things like, say, the Fall, Brokenness, consciousness, free will, Delusion, Discernment, curses, possession...
    1
  1499. Also, she may have seen it as a case of BOTH claiming to experience 'an uncontrollable attraction' to another person.
    1
  1500. @Christian Weidmann Preterists not withstanding, that is?
    1
  1501. Well, if they stopped arguing so much, saying others were 'not true Christians' and expanded upon omissions in the bible, it might help. I don't suppose Paul Young would count, though?
    1
  1502. And you base this upon what, exactly? With greater or lesser focus on Paul, Numbers, Romans, Timothy and other odds and ends?
    1
  1503.  @nickyluvsjesus  So, how is knowledge of such subjects, actually obtained, also? Is the Holy Spirit very forthcoming with reconciliatory details, on such matters? Please note, I am asking in all, and sincere, seriousness.
    1
  1504. How do you regain control of your church?
    1
  1505. Also, what does Numbers 31:17 and Leviticus 25:44 imply is right?
    1
  1506. And He had to sacrifice himself to make humans perfect to enter a perfect realm where imperfect angels lived, who reach Earth, tricked two perfect humans, and made Earth imperfect? And this is all so we can get BACK there (or to a Kingdom made upon Earth) .... right?
    1
  1507. And then fulfil, John 14:12? And also, unschism... yourselves... And that is why. @theearliers103 
    1
  1508. Fair enough. I kind of prefer, on paper, not to be unevenly yoked... with those who cannot, fulfil John 14:12, maybe? Although some might, claim to. @art3misxp784 
    1
  1509. I am still waiting to find out if ANY OF YOU understand it though. What is Discernment? Gematria? Why could demons even reach Earth?
    1
  1510. A bit awkward, if there are billions of them? Is that also why an Inquisition and a blood libel on Jews could occur that easily?
    1
  1511. And is Heaven safe, now?
    1
  1512. It's that angels would become suicidally prideful in first place, I mean. Knowing all they did? And why were any sent to HERE?
    1
  1513. Yes, so why could serpent do anything? Of own accord, or for Satan? If own accord, makes some sense, I guess - was how many Rabbis saw it.
    1
  1514. But it was patently IMPOSSIBLE? If an angel knew ANYTHING about God, surely that was one thing? Unless... he doubted it. And how persuade so many other angels? What did they even think they lacked? And did they lack knowledge, too?
    1
  1515. No, because I do not have all of it. And without knowing why Satan was owed access to this world, what Eve knew of stakes to those other than her and Adam, and how she was to be a Steward with no idea of what good or evil were, I am not sure I can follow all the logic that follows? And what is a Natural man? Also, what is sound doctrine, and was it prevalent during the slave trade? Or the blood libel on Jews?
    1
  1516. So why did many Jews not go for it? And why can Satan reach this world at all?
    1
  1517. Who knows? Of redefining marriage, or some such, I just want to know how Numbers 31:17 defined it... if they will ever say.
    1
  1518. HOW? And how does TWO PEOPLE in a garden choosing for an entire SPECIES to separate from God fit with that? Also, if CHILDREN see the truth CLEARER than the wise of the world, then how do THEY feel about Leviticus 25, Numbers 11, and 31:17, and Samuel 15:15?
    1
  1519. Also, why was heaven itself EVER unstable? Or there be ANY ammunition for blood libels on Jews and anti-Abolitionism?
    1
  1520. I'me sure it can protect itself? And God can too? Also, is there going to expansion on WHY Satan can reach this world at all?
    1
  1521. Well, first, fix whatever went wrong with the Jews, I guess. Plus where Nephilim fit into things?
    1
  1522. So we don't need Numbers 11 then? And does Corinthians 2:14 complicate things?
    1
  1523. Oh, obviously. Assuming you are, can you tell me why Satan could reach Earth, and if God wanted him to?
    1
  1524. Okay, so in the interest of that, may I ask why Satan could reach Earth, and if Eve knew he existed? Also, how do two people make a choice for an entire species to separate from God, and how does it affect free will? And where do disguised rebel angels fit in? Who can, er, pose as 'beings of light'...?
    1
  1525. Ah, like in Romans 1:20...
    1
  1526. Why is heaven at all stable or safe? The perfect realm that had angels that could ever lack for anything, or become suicidally prideful?
    1
  1527. What you say was the fundamental aspects of Christianity? And also of Discernment, or verses?
    1
  1528. From WHICH biblical Christianity, though?
    1
  1529. When does it say WHY demons can reach Earth?
    1
  1530.  @yourgoingtohellyoutoo1282  Dangerously erratic and unpredictable, too, historically.
    1
  1531. Yes - only he could judge - so why make Eve judge? Make a choice on that scale, with no awareness of the stakes?
    1
  1532.  @nickyluvsjesus  Good, then we may someday figure out how so many matters in medieval history went awry, then? Up to an including inquisitions, confusion on Matthew 27:25, or of Leviticus 25:46, as related to Africans? Or so I infer...?
    1
  1533. Full of double think. And that GHASTLY Zephaniah, Hosea 9, 1 Corinthians 2:14, Romans 1:20 (thin, messy, far too flawed) and 2 Timothy 1:9... Lotta mincing of truth there, Shea M .
    1
  1534. Were pre Flood people,. Esau, and medieval European Jews loved LESS though? I am going by actual EVENTS here, not words?
    1
  1535. Also, if he was angry with the wicked everyhday, did He still WANT Satan to be able to reach Earth, at all?
    1
  1536. Hmm, and how much has Augustine's view trickled down? And who decides how to tell verses apart?
    1
  1537. There is often a little TOO much flexibility in what the Bible is for or against, as worded.
    1
  1538. Alternatively, you might possibly feel the desire to stick your presumptive snoz right up your edition of Jeremiah 2:30, you complacent little snot, @Juliana Mikhaylovskiy . And enjoy your apologetics for forced marriages, Numbers 31:52 style, too, perhaps. Lukewarm indeed... and 'fleshy desires' began with many angels, oddly enough.
    1
  1539. Unlike clarity on why Satan can reach this world at all, and if he was mean't to?
    1
  1540. And on what is or isn't natural, to Christians?
    1
  1541. When they become more consistent, maybe. I'm not fond of Paul's categories for various people. He mix and matches what 'nature' means several times, as does James 3:15...
    1
  1542. And what are those exegesises? Including of if Eve knew of the stakes to more than herself and Adam, in Eden?
    1
  1543. And what is convenient in the Bible to you? May I ask if your are familiar with Numbers 5:22-35?
    1
  1544.  @tinkerinjones6604  When - and how did He feel about the blood libel, Inquisition, pogroms, wars, pro slavery clerics, and other messes? Compared to say, one little Sabbath breaker, who gathered sticks? Which merited more direct involvement, or not?
    1
  1545. And where did Numbers or Samuel 15 fit into ANY of those?
    1
  1546. It's maybe not a COMPLETE view of life and all it's questions, but it does jettison some of the messier and often damaging issues...
    1
  1547. Yes, well, we live in a pretty trivial age, obsessed with identity, outward habits, cliques, and tribes. Churches often fall back into it, for some reason.
    1
  1548. Although, typically, Paul seeks to COMPLICATE the simplicity of the claim with his 'categories' in Corinthians 2 and Romans.
    1
  1549. Supposedly of openly demonstrating it in public, being proud of it, educating children about it, and so on.
    1
  1550. (especially the last one)
    1
  1551. But if they practised in Numbers 31:17 and Samuel 15:15, I assume this was waivered?
    1
  1552. Curious, though - what happened along the way, to lead up to that? And why has God apparently IGNORED many other people who pleaded not, to be gay?
    1
  1553. And the guidance of the Spirit? Which is determined by spiritual Discernment?
    1
  1554. Dunno. What did Numbers 31:17 say?
    1
  1555. @Sophiaa - sure is, friend. And when gays had any CHOICE or not to be 'cured' or simply to be perhaps, stoned, in prior parts of Christendom? Was that loving?
    1
  1556.  @arianaa8973  True, but help them how? Are they to be 'cured' or not, and did they even have that OPTION in past churches, in prior centuries? What happened to them back then?
    1
  1557. Well, Paul seems to describe something in Corinthians 2:14, but may mean rape, pederasty, or temple prostitution, lumped in as well.
    1
  1558. So, is RAPE also wrong? And what DID happen to captives, in Numbers 31:17?
    1
  1559. How do we know, though? And why could Satan reach this world?
    1
  1560. Also, was Numbers 31:17 appropriate, but also, for the survivors, a consensual... sexual... fate?
    1
  1561. Who might pop up in the infamous book of Enoch, but hey, that's obviously much disputed....
    1
  1562. Yes, but WHICH Christianity is the one most wrongly punched, and how many versions of it, SHOULD there be? Spoken as a polite, if at times, strained, agnostic?
    1
  1563. Also, did St. Paul hate, or generalise, certain people, including the 'carnal minded', or more notably, the 'natural man' of 1 Corinthians 2, ever?
    1
  1564. @Nathan Desta Prove it. Prove it for Medieval Jews, Esau, Middianites, all those NOT spared (beside virginal women) in Numbers 31:17, and pre Flood people? And why could sin be CONCEIVED of in a realm pervaded by God, by any angels?
    1
  1565. @Nathan Desta And Leviticus 25:46 and Numbers 31:17, promote what kind of evil, or not? And what would any angel have to CHOOSE from? Any valid alternative? Whereas we CAN choose some alternatives, after centuries of uneven church and papal rule...
    1
  1566. @Nathan Desta And Adam and Eve were NOT FREE. They were not even aware of the true ruddy WIDER stakes at all. Beyond to their TWO lives. and the impact on future generations. And when did angels EVER get tested like they were? With gaps in their knowledge? Though to futilely rebel at all does imply SOME gaps, in theirs, surely.
    1
  1567. @Nathan Desta Did they? Prove it? And Milton came way later. And did they know of stakes their not yet born DESCENDANTS? And again, what has this got to do with US? Who are born UNAWARE of which or how many Gods exist? And can often find YHWH looks unclearly competent, or jealous? And what WAS to become of captive women in Numbers 31:17, or people 'bequeathed' in Leviticus 25:46?
    1
  1568. @Nathan Desta I just want to know if you can prove it. And when He is INACTIVE, grossly so, at times - what should we conclude?
    1
  1569. @Choco Jimenez - we all have, have we? How? Consciously? Via choice? How was CHOICE and will altered or not by TWO people making a hasty choice in a Garden, with no apparent awareness of the wider context and stakes? Beyond to their TWO lives? And why was Satan OWED any access to them, or this world, anyway, or to keep any angelic powers, post exile? And how would any angels become ignorant, suicidal or dissatisfied in heaven, anyway? Let alone to believe in an impossible victory in a revolt?
    1
  1570.  @chocojimenez2916  Nah, no problem. Please just bear it in mind whenever the term 'free will' is perhaps too simply defined inside churches...
    1
  1571. Do you feel sad and disturbed about that? Because I cannot really understand it. More fodder for 'free will' and how people can pick at random who is 'departing into unsound teachings', expect to be persecuted or decried, etc?
    1
  1572. @Gabrielle Lartey So, what did that MEAN? Especially in PRIOR centuries? Was stoning more or less likely to befall gay people, back then, in Christian run nations?
    1
  1573. I am worried at least that major gaps seem to be in it, and that it is not clear on what is or isn't natural, or what Satan can or cannot control. Or indeed,. why Satan was owed any access to this world AT ALL, Jared? Many would like that cleared up, first?
    1
  1574. Eh, I don't think you could have done THAT bad. Mind you, humans can do quite bad things in the service of what they love - especially if they are convince someone is out to 'weaken' those...
    1
  1575. Still waiting to hear about Numbers 31:17 here... It is not tangential, it is fairly crucial.
    1
  1576. I am not fully sure how? I need to know the fate of the prisoners?
    1
  1577. Have they also left no omissions?
    1
  1578. And what are gay people to do? And what becomes of Jews? How does Discernment work? And do you approve of conversion therapy?
    1
  1579. And a consistent Christianity, with no gaps?
    1
  1580. So what did Paul mean by carnally minded and reprobate people? Would you say he did or did not make generalised statements?
    1
  1581. Love Esau, then? Love Moses' Middianite in-laws? Love Ham's children, and Job's? And medieval Jews being tortured in Spain, @Jade Elaine ? In others words - money where mouth is.
    1
  1582. Perhaps he wants to be like a prideful angel? Of course, then we'd need to know why angels could become prideful in the first place. What happened to the idea of the resurrection taking place on Earth, by the way?
    1
  1583. Hard to balance, though, isn't it? And thoughts on Thessalonians 2:11?
    1
  1584. I tend to think it's the MISSION that should come first, not any person. And if the mission is to SAVE people, it helps to FULLY reveal why jeopardy even occurred to them.. Anyway, jest a thought.
    1
  1585. Also, I do not WISH to hate anyone, but humans haven't always tried to degrade other humans, and labelled some as 'natural men' a bit disingenuously?
    1
  1586. Well, I'm a UK agnostic, myself.
    1
  1587. Well, the references to Ma'at, and Zoroastrianism, and Sumerian myth, all seem a bit overlapping at times...
    1
  1588.  Spencer Tracy  yet also believes in bequeathable slaves, per one infamous passage?
    1
  1589.  @Skinniest_Kween  Wonder how we tell what's heretical, or incomplete, or not, thus far?
    1
  1590.  @Skinniest_Kween  Also, how would you define enlightenment, and do some verses make it harder to reach that than others? Ones that seem dysfunctional, later on...?
    1
  1591. Good. Then Leviticus, Exodus 21:20, most of Numbers and Deuteronomy, are GARBAGE and we can dispense with them now, yes? And then sort out what Paul was really seeking to say in Romans and Corinthians?
    1
  1592.  @kerchi9250  Can you bother to explain what was to happen to Jews post Matthew 27:25, or what occurs to gay people post Matthew 5:18? Does that mean they were to be... cured, or put, to death? And when did policy shift, from one, to another? Also, was the infant son of David, who died, painfully, whilst an infant, loved or not - and where does the verse on making 'pure and impure vessels' fit in? And why did many Popes 'mix stuff up'.
    1
  1593.  @kerchi9250  He died, quite painfully. And it seems like this God takes turns being just, or invested, or attentive, or not? What was meant to happen to Jews, as an overall race, after Matthew 27:25, again? And how many kids died In Numbers 16:23.
    1
  1594.  @kerchi9250  given I never get, full context, can I be fully blamed, for that? And why would this God, care one jot, what Satan thought, of people not yet born... or the free will of some demented popes to set up pogroms?
    1
  1595.  @kerchi9250  why can he do, any of that, at all? Why did he keep, any powers? And why would near half the world, and half of Christendom, be given over to the 'wrong' church, Jews, under some of their mercy, included? And how can I know the context when it's presented so selectively or with omissions, of backstory? When I read of jealousy, pride, anger and liking the smell of burnt flesh, a picture can emerge at times, of some kinds of Gods. And what father would give kids stones - or rotten meat - and call it good? (To paraphrase Jesus) And was David's newborn child, too, in 2 Samuel, also so loved?
    1
  1596. So why could Satan ever re-enter heaven, then? And why did he retain any powers, upon exile? Also, how does this work for 'natural men', in 1 Corinthians 2:14? or Jews, after Matthew 27:25?
    1
  1597. True enough to say why Eve was not trusted with knowledge of good and evil, OR of stakes beyond to her and Adam alone? But that Satan WAS trusted with certain powers and knowledge?
    1
  1598. And you cannot even explain consistently WHY it exists?
    1
  1599.  @rumlevids2580  Is it natural? Who controls what bits of nature? God or Satan? Post Fall? Did Eve alter any of it? What is a 'natural man' in 1 Corinthians 2:14? What is 'earthy wisdom' in James 3:15? What was altered of our nature (with no consent?) in Eden or not?
    1
  1600.  @rumlevids2580  What are the rules? Why is Satan owed anything? When are we also BORN knowing which or how many gods there even are, or who controls what of nature? Despite what Romans 1:20 says, it does NOT all seem clear cut. And merely believing a rival belief (that God sowed here?) is termed a capital crime, often?
    1
  1601.  @rumlevids2580  Frankly, the more I learn of that term, the more complicated it becomes. Perhaps you'd better begin with - what variety of God, personality and goal wise? And a Henotheistic one, or not?
    1
  1602. It says many things. It says forcefeed complainers rotten meat, stone sabbath breakers, beat servants and drown women and children for something fallen angels brought about that God apparently KNEW in advance they'd bring about. Since they could reach Earth - somehow. It can be a rather odd book.
    1
  1603. Why? Why does the Jeopardy exist? As a default, to souls? And why could demons set foot upon Earth, at all?
    1
  1604. Please, also, do NOT just reply with 'free will', as I do not find the context from that complete...
    1
  1605. But YHWH was fine with that happening for centuries, oddly - or so it seemed... (the pitting)
    1
  1606. And why could he reach Earth, at all? Did God want him to? Also, did Eve know that suicidal rebel existed?
    1
  1607.  @lillycruz3552  That's an interpretation on loving your neighbour as yourself. Obviously, conflicts with Paul's suggestions to shun some people over others.
    1
  1608.  @lillycruz3552  Ah, as compared to Esau, Middianites, pre Flood people, those in Thessalonians 2, and the 'natural man'?
    1
  1609.  @lillycruz3552  I assume that she feels YOU are not loving your neighbour as equally?
    1
  1610. ​ @pretty948  Why does He dislike them? Wasn't their emergence inevitable? Are not many verses a bit murky? Though oddly, NOT Leviticus 25:46?
    1
  1611. So can you explain omissions, then, on that basis?
    1
  1612. Why does the jeopardy exist though? Why could demons REACH this world at all? And how did heaven ever end up unstable?
    1
  1613.  @fancyphantom8103  go and suck on 1 Samuel 15:3, Jeremiah 2:30, Ezekiel 24:21 and Numbers 16:46, then. And Joshua 7:24. Sometimes the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. And sin BEGAN in heaven, and if sin means to err, then who erred in angelic design? Mixing in just enough ignorance and suicidal pride to provoke self destruction.... eh, Romans 1:20 my foot. Apply it to angels, too.
    1
  1614.  @mollyambass7231  What, are we going to get a full taste of the Book of Zephaniah, etc, or has that been revised? And what practice did HE do during the Spanish inquisition, or not? Or was it better to practice intervening on gathering sticks, on Sabbath - just wondering. As one got a much more definitive reaction, than the other.
    1
  1615. I would say that of course they do not all think the same.
    1
  1616. That is the question, yes. What is attraction, how much is it voluntary, and when is it healthy? Although a book containing BOTH Corinthians 2:14 and James 3:15 may struggle to say what Nature IS at times.
    1
  1617. Sounds reasonable.
    1
  1618. Dunno, @Finn , where does slavery being condoned, stoning kids and forcing marriage, fall on the spectrum? And where does major inaction, not just action, fall?
    1
  1619. Well, it varies SO MUCH already though. And there is disagreement, and infighting, sometimes. In the same way the Bible APPEARS to have omissions - sometimes.
    1
  1620. It's a fair view - but then how does one follow a god, if a god is not revealed? And why would a God want so much misinformation around?
    1
  1621.  @catedoge3206  Hmm, sounds a bit like the ideas of Neale Donald Walsch, too, among others...?
    1
  1622.  @catedoge3206  His main ideas are that God wishes to be known, and is in fact everything, coming to know itself in different forms; and going through many evolutions and incarnations to do so; (see also the poem 'the little soul and the sun') and with guides sent to help people become more aware of their inner holy potential; to be 'one' with god; and the rest of the souls, I suppose. I'm very interested in what he says; but with all religions, and New Age movements, etc; the proof of the pudding is in the eating. So I wait to see how successful the groups he has inspired turn out to be. I'm still skeptical about this Group of 1000 example, for one thing - and if they were ever corrupt, financially. Otherwise, the ideas sound rather good.
    1
  1623.  @catedoge3206  Worth a look, yeah. Oh, and there's this Lorna Byrne women who claims to speak to god, and angels...
    1
  1624. So the Word is useful for either reproof, or showing the Glory of God, then? So why do some bits make children run away, if children can see the truth easier, as Jesus says?
    1
  1625. And do I CARE, if Numbers 31:17 counts as righteous? Might it not look a LITTLE like sanctioning rape?
    1
  1626. Nor am I clear on why Satan, a know, suicidal, saboteur minded angel, could REACH this world, at all...
    1
  1627. Did not YHWH have full knowledge, already?
    1
  1628. Supposedly against nature. Not that they always agree on what nature is, and who runs it, anyway.
    1
  1629. Do you know what it says about WHY fallen angels could reach Earth...
    1
  1630. So, your view on Numbers 31:17, Tiago, if I may, and consent, in it?
    1
  1631. And OBVIOUSLY it's not 'no matter what you do', but maybe more if you just keep TRYING to do right by people. You, know, real people. That you can SEE. Including those parents we're supposed to shun in comparison to Jesus, some say...
    1
  1632. Went a bit wrong, didn't it? Could it be the book did not fully answer every question, clearly, and that some churches schismed?
    1
  1633.  @kerchi9250  Why don't you ask Him, now, though? And why medieval Jews got so little aid, from Him? Correct me, if I'm wrong.
    1
  1634. And SHOULD they? And what is natural?
    1
  1635. And was it IN Numbers 31:17? Afterward?
    1
  1636. Self control? Or indeed, ANY sign of sexual CONSENT?
    1
  1637. Have you read Numbers chapter 31 verse 17 onward? I wish to know what became of female CAPTIVES, please.
    1
  1638. Sorry, I mean, has @Nasgrantx read it... Carry on.
    1
  1639. And why is that? Why could fallen angels set foot upon Earth at all? Did Adam And Eve know they existed Or is this more knowledge that they, er, lacked?
    1
  1640. So why make those other rules at all, if they were not that important? And SOME OF THEM stuck around a lot longer in some churches and denominations, @Evan Lorezca - and did real harm to real people, several times (Leviticus included)
    1
  1641. WELL I DESPISE Numbers 31:17 and DOUBLE STANDARDS...
    1
  1642. Would you point any corrections, or improved views? Please? Including what the 'natural man' is, strong delusion, and how much of nature Satan is permitted to control?
    1
  1643. Sorry, just your view then, of how doctrine best works for helping people? (see Corinthians 2:14 and James 3:15)
    1
  1644. Does it ever worry you? Including how it affects the idea of spiritual Discernment? I am not trying to be rude, just collected assorted perspectives on the whole thing.
    1
  1645. I'm not sure that's what she meant though? May have been more on how both desires... 'feel' normal, at first?
    1
  1646. Which bits? Even Leviticus 25:44? And do you visit the prisoners in jail? Grant hospitality to a homeless man?
    1
  1647. Why? And why did the blood libel on Jews continue unopposed for so long?
    1
  1648. Which one? Which church, @Mariana Soler - and which soteriology and Christology? Also, what happens to Jews, and the 'natural man', and when was it okay to bequeath people for life, as property? And why did any angels become ignorant, or suicidally prideful, to begin with; and why did any keep any powers, post exile? In reach of this world, purportedly?
    1
  1649. More info needed please - badly. And maybe to reunite scattered sects?
    1
  1650.  Ancient 6.6  Who knows? The perennial schizoid sourpuss sabotages his own creation, we are told. That's pretty pathological.
    1
  1651. Sometimes might be necessary to maintain sanity and cognitive harmony?
    1
  1652. Just tell it to Achan's grandkids, too, @Steve Goldson . Also, if you've the guts, or the ability, tell me their AGES too, in Joshua 7:24? Then we'll see what else is dangerous. And 2 Samuel 24, say. Also, when was Torquemada or Paul III tested, and to what degree? Or even Augustine, pre messing up 1 Corinthians 10 (as he interpreted, it)?
    1
  1653.  @stevegoldson67  I repeat, what did He, do, about, those topics, I mentioned? How much effort, was exerted?
    1
  1654.  @Nitesam  Why - what does He owe Satan, why does he jeopardize us all to prove a point, and keep being SHOCKED by what free will leads, to. And ever feel it justified, to slay kids, or have others, stone them...?
    1
  1655.  @Nitesam  But He KNOWS we can't do what He says, and nor can Adam, and He doesn't even KEEP CHURCHES guided or consistent, world-wide, either. Or avert schisms - or ah, pogroms, wars, slavery, Inquisitions, often BY senior clerics, enacting, them...? And he 'haunts' us, this devil, because this God WANTED HIM to. That's what it boils down to. He chose to 'owe him' anything, or have him 'test people' in ways no angel ever was tested - and no angel could impair or make spiritually dead, other angels, before their birth, as Adam did to humans, either...
    1
  1656. Is there any who would consciously go to hell? Unless, maybe, they do NOT see YHWH as wholly legitimate or convincing?
    1
  1657. A term, originally used insultingly, to refer to gay/homosexual people.
    1
  1658. So was it ever God's PREFERENCE to have those customs then, or just a condescension to tribal principles? Also, why was slavery so difficult to resolve, and were there any loopholes in Exodus and Leviticus that added to that issue?
    1
  1659. And no excusing rape, I hope? Nor blood libels on Jews, either?
    1
  1660. Also, by works, do we mean the Sermon on the Mount, or Leviticus 25:46?
    1
  1661. So why can they affect or gain any access to EARTH at all, then?
    1
  1662. Got that right. Why could it appear in heaven at all? And why could it reach this world? Was Satan MEAN'T to reach here?
    1
  1663. Yet is a a main focus of Corinthians and Romans, apparently... (chapters)
    1
  1664. Oh, I'm so glad to hear that, then, @Uzo Backari - no doubt you'll quote Matthew 10:37, too? We've seen a number of people attempt THAT. But there is also John 14:12 - can you be Christians, without that? For most of the history, of the Church? Yes, or no - simple?
    1
  1665. So why couldn't many angels do this, who unlike us, were born into a world with NO doubt of His existence or nature, @Aisha Cantú ?
    1
  1666.  @ashhcantt  But that's utterly impossible, to any angel with a shred of awareness about God. Who's presence PERVADED heaven. So they must have been created without much knowledge, to be ABLE to do so? And to not be swayed back? So hundreds of them will perish for a mere lack of awareness? And yet, NOT before keeping powers, reaching THIS world, and misleading many - including a fair few - from birth? And maybe altering nature at times, and 'making some gay' etc?
    1
  1667.  @ashhcantt  So why choose a suicidal option? And can you also say EVERY human POST Fall has had equal, non impaired or slanted free will? When compared to disguised rebel angels who can pose, say, as 'beings of light'?
    1
  1668. Genesis and complete information required on Fall? So far, somewhat ironic.
    1
  1669.  Person 1234  How would we know which god, also? And do we not get born with a sense of empathy, and moral imagination? And failing that, parents?
    1
  1670.  Person 1234  of which one? Many would say that Jehovah was an utterly sh** moral role model... and why is torture or blood needed to forgive, en-masse?
    1
  1671.  @WilliamsLibrary  Yes, it's a quality control thing. Like all that crap with Torquemada, Gregory XIII, Matthew 27:25, and Leviticus 25:46 - and the lasting and REAL consequences they had.
    1
  1672.  Person 1234  So was heaven, for CRYING OUT loud - so what's your point? Suicidal pride, ignorance and dissatisfaction DO NOT EMERGE in a perfect realm, even WITH free will.
    1
  1673.  Person 1234  Why did we deserve it? And why did a f*** up disloyal suicidal rebel angel deserve ANY ACCESS to this world or to our ancestors?
    1
  1674. We could do that. Could they also discuss WHY fallen angels were permitted any access to Earth?
    1
  1675. Err, WHY, exactly, @Jacob Lalmuanpuia ? How much of it, have you READ, and hope for WHICH or how many people, or trust, does it offer? What of Jude 1:4, 2 Timothy 1:9, Hosea 9, and the book of Zephaniah? And what progress was Torquemada, Calvin or Gregory XIII, to be part of - or be left unsupervised, or not?
    1
  1676. And the rest of the matter can get a little messy as well...
    1
  1677. Perhaps only if we can also learn from you, why Satan kept, any powers. Or why... Romans 1:20, seemingly, failed, with many, many angels... In heaven, @cobbb6671 ? Pre Revolt. As that would be... jolly nice, by now.
    1
  1678. Having put everyone in jeopardy in the first place, that is (or His dad did) @Puppy Lover8 , to ah, 'prove' something to Satan? Including about the harm two ignorant people could do 'choosing' for those not born yet, in Eden? And what saving was done of medieval Spanish Jews too, or basic protection?
    1
  1679. And what of Numbers 31:17? Is that abomination? And does it involve sexual consent?
    1
  1680. Since when? Did Spanish Jews know that? And their ... questioners?
    1
  1681. Please clarify the verse, and proof of interpretation...
    1
  1682. Okay, but it's not like Christendom fully left the OT behind, did it? Not for a long time?
    1
  1683. And many made the OT in a basis of law, for a long period... (where does it say to NOT stone gays? Or what to do instead?)
    1
  1684. So how do you view Numbers 31:17?
    1
  1685. But follow to where? And why was heaven ever flawed?
    1
  1686. But is heaven safe now?
    1
  1687. Also, where is the ethics of consent, in Numbers 31:17?
    1
  1688. What do you mean, unevenly yoked? Those captive women in Numbers 31:17, @Business Account - were they, unevenly yoked?
    1
  1689. And was Satan MEAN'T to reach this planet, at all? Do not tell me there was nowhere else. We can see many stars, now...
    1
  1690. First, where is Eden based?
    1
  1691. Of course, many assume they already understand, and so do not have to put work in. Is easy to absorb other's writings and not apply own thought, or use them very broadly.
    1
  1692. Fill in all gaps, first. And how is the whole of Islam to peacefully unified?
    1
  1693. Yes, I had, er, noticed. Plus all the varying different versions of it, today.
    1
  1694. Tricky, that. Hope you don't have to 'hate' mother and father, too?
    1
  1695. And that Satan sometimes has permission to murder people and revisit YHWH, and sometimes not? And gets to keep certain powers, post exile, too? So, which denomination or creed should the faith be directed to?
    1
  1696. And what does all that mean? Why was any soul put at risk to begin with, @Katie Scheuermann - and to prove WHAT to Satan, or whoever? And what did the Fall take away from rebel angels' knowledge - if at all?
    1
  1697. They want access to what is loosely termed the Numinous and transcendent.
    1
  1698. When it suits them, yes. Quote me about 'carnal minds' or 'natural men' again, @Tyson Winn ? Or inherited curses?
    1
  1699. Kama Loca, maybe, as Easterners call it...
    1
  1700. Don't be timid...
    1
  1701.  Spencer Tracy  So, one cannot interpret slavery and indenture however we please, either?
    1
  1702. @Christian Weidmann And why did many not want Leviticus 25:46 to be questioned, in prior eras, also?
    1
  1703. I see. And could Torquemada, too? Also, maybe, he should not, have held his post. @art3misxp784 
    1
  1704. Can you, ah, prove it IS unconditional, @Avery Bogan ?
    1
  1705.  @avery1813  From himself? Or from what Satan was owed, in terms of access to this world, or to Eden?
    1
  1706. Expect what you want. You may not get it. I keep expecting to learn why Satan was trusted to keep any powers - but I don't get it.
    1
  1707. There are theologians too. Although their logic is often circular.
    1
  1708. And why were any souls put into jeopardy at all? Also, why was Satan owed any access to humans? And to keep many powers?
    1
  1709. Sorry, why does it also say women cannot preach, without saying why ONE gender would be affected by the Fruit any more than another gender? And how Eve's choices from BEFORE eating it would be passed down? (See Timothy)
    1
  1710. Didn't help Mark O'shiro, though. And one guy at least was tied to a cow fence and beaten to death, in the USA. Also, how can sinfulness even OCCUR in heaven, or one being remain there long enough to, er, sway one third of the angels?
    1
  1711. But he was gay, and nobody asked him about anything other than that. And heaven DID HAVE SIN IN IT. And delusional, suicidal rebelliousness, apparently? Of, I hear, one THIRD of the angels?
    1
  1712. And vomiting out such a large group partly fixes the problem, I guess (though not all root causes?) But then, where are they exiled TO? What are the options?
    1
  1713. So murder is fine when sanctioned, to remove some Canaanites, and take women captive, but other times, not? I see. Also, what is your take on Numbers 11:19? And I still wish to know ROOT causes of angels ever feeling dissatisfied, or ever concluding (however delusionally) that God was NOT the top of all creation, or at least, removable?
    1
  1714. By become one with you, I also assume as you judge princes and angels?
    1
  1715. Absofraggingly damn-lutely, Aorta Vin.
    1
  1716. Ignorant of what? And do you know why Satan was allowed any access to this world?
    1
  1717. Large field to check?
    1
  1718. Could be. And what then, does that say about it's, ah, copy protection?
    1
  1719. Not all, but ideology does cause most of the NASTIEST ones. Religion goes in and out of the same habits.
    1
  1720. I mean't the Jewish Laws, and how they were phrased, enforced, and emphasised. Very clear guidelines for not mixing fabrics, how to cut hair, not eating shellfish, or working on Sabbath, say, but less clear on what slavery is or whether it is ever valid?
    1
  1721. So, have you visited any Jews, 11RossLeronX? Also, explained to them what WAS or was not mean't to occur, after Matthew 27:25, in Christendom? Or in medieval Spain? Or explained to a child why God cared about Satan's opinions on human loyalty, after Satan had proven treacherous?
    1
  1722. So, is always it reciprocal love, or sometimes possessive? And can you please clarify why DID happen to captives, in Numbers 31:17?
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  1723.  @ap12872  You fulfil John 14:12-13, maybe, and we'll begin to believe you. Otherwise, you're as legitimate as Torquemada, Paul III or others were. I.e. - not that much.
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  1724. And does this have an upper limit? Plus, if there was NEVER any death in Eden, would there be continuous reproduction?
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  1725. So which God do we mean? The one in the Sermon on the Mount? Or the one in Numbers 31:17, Leviticus 25:44 and Samuel 15:15?
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  1726. @Destiny Clay - but people who bequeath other people for life as servants, beat them NEAR to death, take unmarried women captive and potentially force them to marry, and who bless a massacre in 1572 - just might inherit it? Yes or no? And why did Satan retain any powers upon exile, may I ask?
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  1727. Also, what did the world do to deserve heaven's rejects? When sin should not even have been possible for angels to derive in heaven?
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  1728. I'd like to see the source for that...
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  1729. And where do inherited curses fit?
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  1730. And is that because they are 'infected with demons'? And why could those beings GET here, exactly?
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  1731. Ah. I see. So, do you hate 2 Samuel 24? And 2 Samuel 24:16 (actually, that bit's, marginally... nicer) Or Deuteronomy 21:11? And Exodus 21:2-7? Or Leviticus 25:46... and Judges 21:14? How do those, make you feel... Also, how do you see, Romans 8:30... and 2 Corinthians 4:4? As a real Christian, I mean. I might also ask about John 14:12... too. But that may be premature. @grantbelanger9182 
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  1732. And then to often, er, fix them? Also, thoughts on Corinthians 2 and Romans 1:20?
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  1733. Yes, there seems to be MANY stories in the old Testament of the younger brother being preferred to the elder one. Some see this as symbolic, not literal (like Swedenborg and his followers)
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  1734.  @MrFrog-rc3zx  Someone should have seen to Leviticus 25:46 a lot earlier, then. Quite a mess it left. Matthew 5:18 (see 'witches', gay people, and more) and Matthew 27:25, and 1 Corinthians 10, too - poor precedent it left, for nutters like Torquemada and Gregory XIII. And Romans 1:20 begins to contradict itself, and has no context for why it failed with many angels. Who really COULD see 'invisible qualities, clearly understood'.
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  1735. You're not telling me why heaven was ever unstable, though? And why it would be perfect, yet one third of the angels feel any lack, or gain so little view of God that they'd think they could A - defeat Him - and B - make anything better by doing so?
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  1736. Despite the oddity of knowing fallen angels would make Him unhappy enough to drown a world, er, later? Or the whole Numbers 11:19 thing, among, er, others?
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  1737. Have you ever read Deuteronomy 20:10, by the way?
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  1738. And why did jeopardy come to be?
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  1739. And have a clear idea of what that IS. Because Samuel 15:15 does NOT seem like it to me...
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  1740. And what does it say about how much knowledge of the, ah, stakes, Eve had? To more than her and Adam?
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  1741. I think she was getting at how both 'felt right' at the time? Who knows...
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  1742. What of the natural men of 1 Corinthians 2:14? Do they have a choice what they are born?
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  1743. But Satan also got BACK INSIDE it, once?
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  1744. Really? Don't they have to be conscious they are in jeopardy first? And why? And that their current state is dissatisfying? Once talk of being given strong delusion is introduced, does that confuse what Brokenness is?
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  1745. @Samuel - so, no enslaving, torturing, warring, or persecuting, then, even historically? And yet quite a few church leaders did participate in it? Also, what IS a 'natural man' ala 1 Corinthians 2:14? And what of the 'not one jot or title will pass from the law' statement?
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  1746. What does He not say? Why was the blood libel on Jews never fully denounced? Why was definitions of slavery unclear, relative to not eating shellfish or mixing fabrics? And why can demons set foot on Earth?
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  1747. So why wasn't heaven perfect?
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  1748. You mean of a competent, non self sabotaging and bipolar one?
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  1749. You are BOTH under observation... And why was Satan/Shaitan OWED anything, also?
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  1750. And also, for what is not said? Also, why would God wish Satan to have any Earthly access? Or to Eden?
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  1751. And why is that? Is that how YHWH wanted it?
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  1752.  @hudsonwaller8776  So was Deuteronomy 21:13. Did you read that? Lifestyle, of a sort. And Exodus 21:3. Seemed kind of approved of, too.
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  1753. Within respect to the rights of others, yeah.
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  1754. Dunno. Did he knew Eve would fail the test? What was He trying to learn? Did she also know Satan existed?
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  1755. And did Abraham always obey such? Also, if you were told to stone someone, would you do it?
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  1756. So it's often said. One wonders what angels were designed to be, too...
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  1757. How do potential recruits tell? Which is which?
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